 Welkom back to Y254, my name is Karanja Alex and it's time for youth and politics and of course many thanks to Kalamivar for that informative segment on health. Today on youth and politics we'd like to have a look at the evaluation of the current impasse on county revenue allocation and of course at the tail end we'd be looking at Kitui politics and today before I even go deeper to my topic I want to introduce my guest who is Honrabu John Kisangu. Garibu san. Asanti, asanti. Thank you so much. We've ever been here? No, I've been to KBC channel one, this is my first time here. Garibu san. Thank you. Alright, so what is devolution precisely? Well, the 2010 promagated constitution sold the decentralization system of government of course in Kenya making history after its failed trials during the Majimbo times if probably you can recall of such. The constitution sold the birthing of the 47 counties that of course narrowed down and brought of course three things all the way down to the county government that is number one power, resources and responsibilities from the national government all the way to the county government. And Majimbo wants us to get there to our topic of discussion. Yes. Devolution, because the revolution has worked for us we're still working for us. Alex if I were to give you a percentage I would give you a 70 percent. So for you it's a bit 70 that you're still working on it? We're still working on it and you remember this is the second, this is the second term, we started in 2013, five years to 2017 and now we are on the second term of devolution and I'm sure it will continue to improve as we go to 2022, 2027 it will be better. There has been several calls to referendum and I don't know what you think about devolution and referendum as per it is right now because there have been several calls that we need to first of all look at the constitution at itself and even look at devolution. Do you think for it's right for us to have referendum and amend some constitutional acts? Reforandum is necessary because it's now ten years of course we have to change with times so there are things that need amendment others just need to be polished a little bit to make service delivery better. So at least we are going somewhere though not everything needs to be amended? Not everything. Right, one among the prime aspects of devolution is public participation and over the past we have seen several persons and groups coming out boldly saying that they have not been included. Let's have an example of Nat about the CBC system of education, they say that they were not involved and of course looking at even the citizens during the census exercise, some of them noted that they were not involved. Do you think the government is doing it its best? You know if I were to refer to the county government act, if you read section 174 of the county government act so the way down to 176 it now talks of the objects of devolution. Yes. Public participation is very essential to achieve service delivery and the public participation is there to ensure that what is happening on the ground or how you utilize the resources, state resources is in accordance to the will of the people. Yes. Yeah, so it is actually good to involve people on decisions that affect them. Yes. Yeah. So have we really developed in terms of involving persons because groups have really been out clearly noting that they have not been involved by any chance. Is the government, do you think the government is working its way out on this? The government talks of public participation, yes. You know we, for example in Kitui, we've had public participation in so many occasions on different issues, but the question is after the public participation do you or do the governments go by what people want? That is now the underlying factor. Yes. Are the governments, you know, taking into account the concerns or the grievances or the issues pointed out by the public when it comes to implementation of policies and projects? I was almost asking about implementation. Are we failing in terms because we have so much that has been discussed, looking even at the building bridges initiating, so much has been discussed so far. Do you think we are failing in terms of implementation? The issue of building bridges initiative is at the moment, it's still with the board. I'm very sure and I believe that it will still be brought down to the public, you know, for the final and I had the right honourable Rayla Odinga say this. I had him say some time back while he was in Lodua that this document will still be brought down, you know, for the public to have the final word on it so that they can still consider their views. Yes, yes. And you mentioned something about the objectives of devolution and we just touched on one and of course the second point I want us to look at is accountability. We're talking about the issue, did we bring in devolution and we devolved the government and devolved even corruption? You know, Alex, devolution, if you read this law, there is napping, it mentions corruption, it was actually meant to devolve services closer to the people. But now some of the counties are doing it wrongly and they are achieving the corruption more than what was actually meant to achieve what devolution was meant to achieve. So accountability is an issue that is really, it is a mess in so many counties and that's why you're here. You know, the other day you had a, you know, in Taitataveta that you wanted to resolve in Kiambu County where you come from, they are in crisis, but as in Kitri we have badly off, but we are not talking, we are just, you know, hoping that we will improve. So, you know, devolution is good, it was a, you know, it was never a mistake, but to achieve devolution we really need good people in offices. So we are failing in terms of our leadership? Exactly, exactly. That's the one thing that is failing. The issue is, you know, when you fight for, let's say you want to fight for a, to be a governor in Kiambu, I want to give you an example of where you come from. And then, you know, I think what is affecting and what is killing devolution is that it's just greed. You fight, you spend your money fighting and then you happen to win. Once you win, you just want people who can, you know, help you recover whatever you spent, make some money for your family, you know, and friends. You know, if you go to be, I mean, you manage to be a Kiambu governor with that kind of mentality, obviously devolution in that case is dead. When you mention about, you know, when you bring in the aspect of corruption and it prompts me to bring in the body that is mandated to deal with corruption, that is ethics and anti-corruption body, the commission itself. It has really come categorically that we are going to fight corruption in as much ways as we can. Are we really fighting corruption to a level like we can because we have seen very many arrests since devolution came in, many arrests, several like a number of them have been made, but we have not heard of any verdict being given? That's the point. That's the point. You answered the question. You answered the question because, you know, arresting people or maybe county officials or whoever is involved in corruption is not a problem really. Our issue is you arrest these people, charge them, let's see them prosecuted. Let's see assets which have been procured with looted money recovered. That is what we want to see. Can we really be able to recover all these monies? Why not? Why is it there? Why should we have an asset and recovery body? Why are they there? We have a board. It should be unpolished if they cannot recover assets and properties procured from corruption. So if by chance, let's talk about some of the issues that have been made or some of the arrests that have been made in the previous times. We have seen like now the CS4 treasury. Henry Roteachu was arrested along his payers and among others. Do you think that the money that probably has been alleged to have been stolen or rather through the contracts that have been made? Do you think we can come on board and say now you need to give back all these monies? Is it possible for it to be given back? You know it is possible. If we let those institutions which are charged with that responsibility to do it, because we cannot do it here on TV, we cannot do it on the streets, but we have institutions, we have the DCI, we have the DPP, we have the anti-corruption, we have the asset recovery board. I mean those are the institutions mandated differently on constitutional institutions which should be able to follow up and get these people arrested, charged. And you know this property recovered and you know these public funds and it can never be business as usual when it comes to looting of public funds. So this is really what needs to happen. These institutions need to get busy and recover this money. So as you said we are failing in terms of implementation. Exactly. That's something I want to quote the devolution cabinet secretary Genwa Malo who said during the devolution meeting, I'm very concerned about corruption. We wanted to devolve funds not corruption. It is an area of great concern which we shall be addressing. Should we be addressing corruption in and out and yet we're not resolving anything because seems like we're just talking about it. You see that is a very good statement from the CES devolution Genwa Malo. I wish those institutions I mentioned could listen to him because you know when devolution fails and you remember they were fighting for 300 and I think 27 billion to go to counties. This is a lot of money. It's a lot of money. But you know this fight for money but when it comes to actual implementation there is so much corruption, so much mistrust. That is where we are failing as devolved units. So I wish those in the institutions I mentioned could listen to that statement. That was actually meant for them. So there are several bodies that have been sleeping on their job. Exactly. That's the point. So let's talk about the DPP and the DECI. When we talk about the arrest, like for instance one time I attended the summoning of Titeraveta Governor Granton Samboja. But oftentimes they usually come out so courageous, so boldly after recording the statement. And afterwards we get to hear nothing. And only we hear that they recorded the statement and that's it. The bodies that have been mandated we only hear about ethics and intercorruption and of course no Dean Hajji making the arrest. After that nothing is said. Kenyans have been so much of interest because as leaders do you think leaders I know of the other devolving all the way down corruption and then ending up swaring everything? Alex, I think last week I was listening to the president. And then the president said, actually he said it in Soili, that if you are caught up in corruption you don't start making calls. And I think that was very clear. So that you loot public funds and you sort out your mess. You don't start calling who, help me, whoever you want to call. But I think the DPP means well for this country. I've listened to him and he's very clear on those who are looting public funds. So I'm also very sure that the leadership of this country is equally committed to making sure that corruption ends. And the issue of the new notes, it's a big blow to the corrupts. Because I'm sure they are keeping so much money. That's why you see there is no money around. There is no circulation of the 1000 notes. So in the next two or three months we are going to go the route which the U.S. went some time back when people lost property to banks, mortgages and all that. People will eventually get their cars recovered until to a point where even the banks will not have anywhere to park them. Because it's actually that time when we have to use the money that is available for us. Not money from Alishababa and all those funny. We'll be looking at that in just a few. But right now of course Honorable Peter Killons has just joined us and he's the MCA at the ward. And of course County Assembly Majority Leader. He'll be on set in just a few but before we even introduce him on air. We'd like us to look at some of the things that have been happening including Kiamaniwamatangi who argues in 2016 of course went to court to try and see what exactly does the government want in terms of revenue allocation formula. Because the formula that has been given was number one, the population, the size of the population in every county equals share. There is property index and county size. So Amatangi argues out that the formula was unfair to some counties such as Kiambu that is densely populated. And some of course others there are of course densely and of course less of size. And we'll be looking at that and asking my panelists what they think about the way or the formula that has been used even before. And still on devolution because that's our main topic of the day. Do you think devolution has really worked for us? We can interact with us of course on our social media platforms. We'll be looking at that later on. On the other hand let's have a county allocation statement. And the devolution of coming Secretary Jino Amalo as we said before noted that he's worried about some of the things that have been happening. And probably before even before even introduced a guest some of the things that have been happening in the country have been through the impact of corruption. We'll be looking at that in but just a few. But before then let's first of all let me come back to you before even Honrabu gets ready for the next segment. The county allocation statement is still standing still and seems like not to be working. This issue of division of revenue I believe that is what you are talking about. These are still made between the Senates and the National Assembly on how much they want to release to the county governments. You know what really you say ma? Onyama siyuni term wa piganao. Fahari wa willi wa kipigana. Nyasi ni omia. As we talk today the county governments are stuck. For example my Kitui county has not been able to pay salaries for the employees for the last two months now. We have now entered the third month without you know. As we proceed let me invite as we still continue that I'd like to invite Meshimiwa to come on board because I am told that he is ready under Pita Key Lonzo. You can come on board he's the MC of Adi Warden of course the county assembly majority. Karibu sana Meshimiwa. We've been discussing about of course devaluation and of course later on you probably can just close this side. Many thanks. Thanks very much for making it. We much appreciate you being here. I would like to ask you the question because we've talked about devaluation. And now he has mentioned about the county stalemate. And in Kitui he has just mentioned that there are two months that people have not been paid. What has been happening? The mic is very much okay. What do I say about the stalemate is there? We you know first of all let's understand that commission for every new allocation just does recommendation to actually treasury and national assembly. Your recommendation can be taken or then it can be declined. Therefore this time I do not know how the recommendation because one thing I think the stalemate is deeper than most people can look at it as far as the devolved units are concerned. Because how did the government read the budget? How did they do the appropriation bill? Finish with it without the revenue allocation bill being concluded. That's a mess by itself when you look at the articles of the constitution which talks about allocation of money. The article 223 and there about. So there is a bigger mess than you can see. Then when it comes to issues of 316, 314, 335. If your recommendations have been done, you have done your recommendation to your boss and he doesn't pick them because of one or reason or the other. Then the mendhesion team is supposed to come and not even to come and agree not to show who is mightier than the other. We just mentioned about one question that I wanted to ask about veto powers because the battle that we have seen between the national assembly and the senate. Do you think it's an issue of who has more power about supremacy? Supremacy was have been there. But of course this is a very sensitive issue to bring about the supremacy battles. It is affecting so many people country wide. You can imagine at this moment whereby health is devolved. Just imagine the kind of mess across the 47 counties especially. You need to think of the counties that cannot actually raise enough local revenue to even run the ministry of health. Which is very key. So it is a mess. I would urge the senate and the national assembly to bring this to a net because it's really a mess to the country. When we talk about health development, do you think that we should have devolved a few aspects of responsibilities and such kind of thing and others should have been left to the government? Let me be very honest with you. If I were to be the one making this decision, security, education and health sector should have never been devolved. So let's talk about the health sector and of course the education sector because they are prime and even security as you said. The prime thing that affect people and looking at it in a broader manner. We have had several counties even other counties start striking and of course now going down all the way now to the local money and she was suffering. I don't know what you think about health by itself because we are talking about counties right now they don't have funds for drugs. What do you think we should have done in order to resolve all these issues? The mandate of devolving some of these units, I think it is really very sensitive. Yes, health can have been devolved. I think the big problem here, Alex, is that though these docket has been devolved to counties, several functions, several of its functions have not been devolved and the money is thereof has also not been taken to the devolved units. For example, we've had issues of the city scans which were bought all of them and who negotiated the loan, who bought them, where is the national government and forced down the throat the devolved units that is counties to take those loans and by force it is always detected from the budgets whether they like it or not. So those are some of the issues, why would you just devolve a few functions and you remain with the biggest tisha of procurement, the biggest procurement still remains with the national government and that is the mess. So if we decide we are going to devolve, let's devolve, we devolve the workforce, we devolve also all the functions, including money, but if we are going to devolve the workers and we remain the procurement aspect from the national government, it is ridiculous. Your hands are tied on one hand and the other end you are being told you are free, we are not. So there is a statement there which you find and when you ask me, no one wants to answer that question. Why? I tend to think also some of those procuring units in this blockade are due so they can't listen. Probably just to come, between the national government and the county governments, who is failing on that side because what he said is that the government should have devolved everything, not just a few things. You know that is why I am concerned they should have just remained with the ministry and run it like they are doing with the security because like he said they devolved the earth sector to the counties but still remain with some functions of the same, some money of the same ministry. So we are charged as a county government, we are supposed to pay the employees, they are also buying some equipments and forcing the counties to pay. These are loans, the loans he was talking about the city scans and you know not all the counties have gotten these city scans, not all of them. Some have gotten others are still waiting, those who have gotten are being forced to pay, I think 200 million or something. So it's either they choose to devolve the whole unit or just take it back so that you know operations become you know more organized. Right, when we talk about the main objectives as we had Alelon mentioned with you, main objective devolution was of course to bring accountability and such kind of stuff. When we talk about the accountability of the persons that are in these bodies, do you think there is someone sleeping on their jobs? Meshimu, what do you think? Let me say something, I think I will reframe the question. Devolution is one of the best item we got from the new constitution in one way or the other. It just becomes a disguise when we will devolve what you are calling corruption. It really now annoys everyone because the reason why we went to the subunits with the reason why we said let it source because you cannot have and let me tell you we cannot just have power on the grassroots without resources. So if you move, if you must decide of transferring power, transfer power plus resources. So therefore the main objective was that if this goes for example to a unit like Kituwi, people of Kituwi will have to govern themselves better because they know the norms of their tradition. But then if it becomes a cause at a point where you find what we should do, the national government is devolved down there. I therefore want to think counties are right now, most counties have become the next centres of corruption. Every village, every person who comes on board, I must remember, I must hear. I am employed here, wants to get the loot which we really crave to be devolved for us to get the better services we are not getting. I cannot run away from saying that devolution has failed, it has not, but it needs to be corrected here and there. At times I find we can be cursed if devolution can fail in this country. And when you mentioned about, it's something that we discussed, we mentioned about corruption and being devolved all the way down. I think corruption began even before devolution came. And when no devolution came, it narrowed down all the way now even to the local government, that is in the county government. What best way can we resolve the corruption in the county government? Well, there are units, I think there is a multi-agency unit which has been set up by this government right now to fight that. What do you think is an anti-corruption? There is a composition of the anti-corruption, the DPP office, the DCI office, and the asset recovery, maybe the asset recovery. And with that I think we are set to call. Because if I collude with one, they really can report you. If you collude with two, they still can mention you. Yeah, it was a case where I was reporting to someone and there are some calls which are coming like a new boss, a boss. He said, Idiya paba na kimioman, that kind of stuff. But nowadays you talk that before I decided to... And this is a different... And we are given the case in Cognito. It's maybe urgent to you, it's urgent to him, it's urgent to him looking at how we are going. The multi-agency unit can really fight corruption. Alright, I want us to look at the county revenue formula that has been being used. Number one, it's about population. How many people do you have in your county? It's been the equal share. There's also the poverty index, the rate of poverty that you have in your county and the county size. And of course Khimaniwa Matangi in 2016 went to the courts saying that this formula is unfair. You know, let me talk about Kituwi because that's where I come from. Karanja, Kituwi is the size of Rwanda. Alright. Yeah, it's 30,000 plus square kilometer. And none of those areas in Kituwi, if there is nowhere where you find there is no population. The population is there. And this revenue sharing formula to me should have considered issues like the size of the counties. For example, the county of Kituwi. The county of Kituwi is too big. With the people in Syekuru, the people in Natiwa where he comes from, the people from Vochamatu which borders and mother which borders Tanariva and the national park. It's really a big area. And the population, I agree, is not too big. But it is actually too big compared to the amount we are receiving from the national government. Again, you find that especially on the issue of the roads, we are given too much. I mean very little. And if you check the amount we are receiving through the ministry of the lands and roads and you know, it's very little. It cannot actually do even three words. It cannot conclude the eddek which is there in just, and the Kanyangi plus my word, which are just around the same route. It cannot do. So to us, we believe population, yes, it's good we consider population while allocating this money. But they also needed to check about the land mass. And what do you think poverty index is helping by any chance on county allocation? Yes. But you also find, I don't know the percentage given to poverty index. I don't know whether it is 18 or 20 percent. First, let me say this, Alex. I do not know the reason why Senator Tawamataengi went to court on the issue of... He was faulting the formula that has been used. What did he suggest? You know, sometimes, let me tell you, revenue allocation or resource allocation is technical. And secondly, it is also political. So he was doing his part of... Because the proposal that he had was that they should be looking at the geographical terrain, population density, dependency ratio, county contribution to GDP, which is a main aspect when you talk about the GDP and the county. Let me tell you something. I don't want to... It's my senior. But really the main focus was GDP. I know the central counties have been talking about we contribute almost 20 percent to the national GDP or that kind of thing. But look here. I think what they got is a fair deal. Forty-five percent is what is on population. Forty-five percent. We should be at the largest population. Kaka Mega, then Kiambo. Then we go down. You will find Kitri probably number seven, number eight there, or someone down. Let me tell you, even as you talk about terrain, let's just take an example of Kiambo. I've been to Kiambo. I know the terrain is there. There is no terrain any much, but the terrain is also complicated. But can I also assure you something? Do you see much a bit? For you to deliver service, for a governor to deliver service there, for a governor to deliver service there, it really requires much on the land area. So, let's also look both sides of the coin. I think senator did his job to politic on this one, but let's also consider the technical part of this one. Fufates you have said. Do you know that Kiambo is also considered as a national county? Do you know that? I like the issue of poverty, depending on who is dividing it. And it still remains, it can raise a lot of concern when you talk about that. It can raise a lot of concern. And what Alex did not tell you, that is where he comes from. That is why he had to be silent when he says that. We can be looking at that later on another day. But before then, let's talk about the county distribution to GDP. When we are talking about, for instance, as he mentioned, like Kiambo, let's say it gives this particular amount to the national government, do you think they measure that we should use other than the previous one that was there, or rather the current that we have? You know, some counties are lucky to have had presidents as their representative. For example, in Rivte Valley, they are doing a lot of farming. They are doing a lot of dairy farming, there is tea, and they are fully supported by the government. They were supported even before. Central, that is where all the milk is coming from. Plenty of greens, agriculture, a lot of agriculture is happening there. If you come to our county, where you want to check our contribution to the GDP, we are doing honey. And if you look at the inputs of the national government through various ministries on what we are producing or what we can produce, it's nothing. That is where we were left. So we cannot use this as a basis of gravy. If we go that route, then some counties will not get even one billion. GDP, contribution to the national government or whatever you want to put it. For now, it can be used to some county. What about it tomorrow if K3 would like to exploit the coal by the way, we are not poor. If we exploit the coal, if we exploit the coal, we will be one of the richest counties. What happens to Turkana, for example, now they have started exporting oil because now you want to bring the GDP because you hold the backbone in agriculture, and what have you. I think the main objective of devolution was equitability, to make sure that you are equitable. How can we bring our brothers who have never seen Tamat? How can we bring them up? Because let me tell you, that child who is in multibit can as well contribute the same in percentage and in share to that child who is born in Nikiambu. It's only that if they are given an equal environment. I can tell you, the environment is very important for growth of our child. There will also be eco-canyons in contribution of GDP. For now, we have tried the session of paper number 10 or number 11, which was saying that much money should go to where they produce much. We cannot go there. This is the time now to raise the areas. To these those areas, we have the potential to produce meat in this country, but do you also see the infringement benefit you get from us? All the security you are getting in Kiyambu they are being trained in Kitu but you don't see that one as a contribution. What you want is what you can do to the GDP. Kiyambu, you know where you can put a range. That's a good point. You probably wind up from that and then you probably can go. But before we go to Kitu politics, we still have a look at some of the things that have been happening. Nairobi in 2017-2018 allocation was given 15.4 billion to Rukana 13, 11.3 rada then Kilifi 9.8. It narrowed down all the way. And when we are looking at these particular billions, can we be able to account because looking at the stalemen that we have right now between the National Assembly and the Senate, the MPs are calling on the governors to first of all be accountable before the increase. Do you think we are feeling in terms of accountability in terms of the funding that we get? It's also a concern not just for the MPs but also to us. We are doing the same work the Senate is doing in the assembly. Our role is oversight and checking how this money is being spent or whether it is of any benefit to the local money. Yes. Instead of saying we reduce this amount I'm talking now about the stalemate now. I would wish they agree there is no point reducing the amounts going to the account governments because the account governments are the ones handling all the Yes, thank you. They are the ones handling most of the millions of which have been devolved. So, I would really encourage that instead of limiting the resources let's fight corruption. It's easier to fight corruption in account governments than reducing the money and then making us poor in the villages. Because of time I want us now to talk about kitui politics so much has been happening looking at there have been several months and the accounting staff have not been paid precisely to be precise actually two months. There is still another issue of the 1.9 billion unaccounted for. There is still the same issue that we are talking about. Let's really have the resignation of Mary. There is so much that has been happening in kitui and do you think that there has been a standoff like the activities are not working as per they should have been because of all these issues that have been happening? Yes. It's true. Kitui accounting staff have not been paid for two months now. We even struggle to pay June salary. We can as much talk of the national which everybody will run to even those incompetent because salary is actually the number one item in an organization. So therefore if a month goes and you don't have a formula or payment whether an overdraft many companies do that whether an overdraft or your trust may be able to get money from elsewhere Alex becomes a problem. I have seen governors talk about august salary but I'm worried about kitui county. Apparently I do not know whether it pinjes the kitui people about them going for two months and paid. I have no problem probably I can be having a multiple streams of getting income but Alex do you consider that person who has just recently been employed that person is depending entirely 100% on this to meet other obligations obligations I mean bills now it is back to school today is back to school you got to pay fees it was very ridiculous when I had the deputy governor say he is going to write letters to landlords so that they wait they don't have money issues of the finance minister and many more there are many more even we have a CSU in office and procedurally so the counter assembly of kitui is doing as much we can do want to do our opposite role that is that I am just tipped over overdraft reports done by Ford foundation with the losses out of Kenya and though we might be ranking very differently in terms of development our oversight role has been taken by my assembly and I want to tell them congratulations because being ranked number 5 in terms of oversight is not a simple job 1.9 billion yes the year 2018-2019 that development that amount of cash of development got lost I would want to say that we I think how we cannot tell because even we don't have a revolt we don't have a revolt we understand that the CEO of the county says that the assembly has really pinned her down that she can't perform if madam governor you are pinned down by the assembly that means in the account you have 1.9 b and therefore if you don't have 1.9 b in the account then probably you are pinning you down we are running after you when you are running away with the money with that kind of a mention I want to come to you Mr. Kizango and ask who is sleeping on his or her job in terms of these 1.9 billion shillings because we have seen marrying the treasurer resailing let me say this Alex first of all the issue of 1.9 billion it's not new we did not talk about it last week it came up as early as may if I remember and the assembly was questioning how development budget has been utilized because you know the report to us quarterly and we start we never got the implementation reports until some time in April and then after going through them we realized there is money meant for development which we are not sure where it has been spent and we raised the question I was then the minority leader and together with my colleague majority leader we compared the executive to give us a report on how this money has been spent the 1.9 billion and there is also the leader of government business in the assembly I personally went to the governor gave her a list of concerns from the assembly that needed clarification from our office she never gave out anything so then we thought as an assembly we should write to the senate devolution committee to the control of budget and also to the accounted general and to tell them to compare the executive to go public on the whereabouts of the 1.9 billion and that is how I exceeded as the leader of government business because a leader of government business should not ask questions like those ones I was supposed to protect but instead I had to ask questions because you remember I am also elected to represent my people so this money after years up to date there has never been response from the executive and then the person in charge of this funds resigned what does that tell you DPP to come to Kitui there is a work for him to do do you think DPP should come to Kitui and ask questions about the 1.9 as we wind up because of time straight under yes yes he has to there is a big duty there is a lot for him to do in Kitui and the reason why he is not coming we do not know he is not coming in fact you should tell us why he is not coming alright many thanks for keeping it joining me here on set discussing all this about evolution county and all that looking forward to have you some other time because of time I will not be able to give you some parting shot many thanks for keeping it white it has been an engaging conversation with this gentleman join me once again next week for youth and politics but before then Val is coming up next just a few