 Welcome back to why in the morning it's when is then it's one of my favorite day in the week because I get to laugh in the morning have interesting discussions at interviews and as usual on strength of a woman we have a phenomenal woman but before we get to our interview we have a question for you so this question goes like this so say ni ni ni wa tu anga liya wakitafta life partners remember it's why two five four at four we are celebrating our birthday and birthday comes, birthdays come with gifts and joy so we have so many gifts for you but for you to get our gifts you have to go on our social media platforms and comment apochi ni wakitafta nga ni nukitafta life partner and the winner at apoa gifts yes and don't forget to follow us on our social media platforms at why two five four channel so right about now we have a phenomenal woman in the house grace kinnothia karibusana thank you i'll let you introduce yourself tell us what you do my name is chris kinnothia yes as you said i'm a psychologist by profession when i'm meant to have advocate here basically that's what i do that's what you do yeah okay uh psychologist and life coach see the same thing it scares me to need the same i've been trained on life coaching and i'm also currently doing my nlp it's a neuro linguistic program programing thing okay yeah so it's not the same i'd say they are related but not per se because i think life coaching or coaching is more it's specific and you train how to deal with people or how to give people solutions how to help them journey map their lives be it business or companies or etc yeah so it's more detailed okay we'll get to that because i want to know like the difference but before even we get to what is life coaching and psychology maybe you can tell us where this journey started uh what inspired you to be who you are right now okay i've been trying to think about this like how do you miss that and you basically mean a psychologist i'd say can i say it was my mistake or i phone my software i have a background in criminology something i never get to mention a lot and when i went back to school i studied here too and when i went back to school i was confused i didn't know what to do so i asked my lecturer what can i study and though like i think a combination with whatever you've done in psychology can create in then along the way i got to love it though earlier before then i used to be a peer counselor then i used to go to high school this is when you go to high school for mentorship it was in the system before pain yeah so in psychology my psychology friends tell me that it's wide and it can be divided into smaller smaller groups clinical psychology spinning in counseling counseling so where are you placed some of us will say it because i've done okay i went ahead and did other certifications like trauma but when i went to i just did the whole cycle immediate in psychology in psychology so you can just did the whole thing so you can uh you can advise people from different groups you're not like a family counselor or a clinical counselor okay the topics i wouldn't say i would pick but when you study you study everything actually then there are people who decide i want to major in child psychology but you basically have knowledge on everything i don't think even any psychology is insufficient for any topic but most of the time you get to decide what's your passion okay so what uh what makes you really happy about working with people i wouldn't say it's an easy job let me put in course i think the beauty of working with people is listening to different stories it's not a boring job you see it's not a program however you're going to wake up tomorrow in the morning and i'm going to listen or i'm going to do calculations i'm going to suppose each day it's a new clan it's a new story it's a new problem some are a bit difficult you have to go talk to your friends or maybe go back and just decide what do you give solutions go back to books learn more i think it's one of the only fields in medicine that you have to keep on reading reading reading because it's a new way whatever you are taught is called most likely i can't even apply half of that then new ways of doing things then new issues maybe when you learn social media was not part of an addiction it's an addiction you have to learn how do you treat it how do you manage this talking about social media is an addiction maybe you can explain to us how you deal with it okay how are we doing with it mostly we treated like any other addiction it's a behavior addiction how do you get to now train the brain train the mind how not to first of all you look what are the triggers how did you end up as as a social media addict was it because you were curious because you were spending more time on that what are the humming behaviors when it becomes an addiction how does it get to affect your life normal you know an addiction is something that gets to impact your life like you can't function normally if we take away your phone you're going to get sick so how do we get to undo that and what is the healing process like so maybe if i'm addicted to my phone what's the healing process like first we'd have to find out why you're addicted to your phone is it because you don't have a social life in the physical state that your only friends are online is it because you're masking or that's where you feel safe then because this is just the byproduct whatever you see in the physical part but what's the restuation so once we get to learn about that why you you know is it because you don't feel connected to people around you how do you build a connection to people around you is it because when you stress that you open mechanism is it because maybe that's where you work how do we find our alternative now that's where life coaching comes in how do we find other alternatives for you to be able to work in other ways they're not harmful in the end so maybe you can help me separate the difference between psychology life coaching okay psychology basically I think psychology is a whole as you say you go to class and learn for years you learn a lot of things you learn how the mind works you learn organizational psychology child psychology and you learn from development you learn a lot of history psychology has a lot of history but for life coaching is more of learning how do you it's more of journey mapping how do you get to structure people's life in a way they want and you work with a person you don't even get to recognize when it comes to life coaching you are what's your goal what do you want to achieve how do we get there at this situation how do we get where you are and that's what would make you happy what you know what do you see and there's no right or wrong answer when it comes to life coaching it's about you what makes you happy what do you want but I think for psychology I'll be there saying because this will be helpful do you feel helpful you know for life coaching it's more finding the best version of you and psychology is more of healing something exact finding solutions solutions they are interlinked in a way but it will take I can go to school and do a certification and become a life coach but by the time you become like a psychologist it takes a lot of a lot of time when you look at the study system but there are also certifications in life coach that take also a lot of time and it's something you keep on learning it's not a one day thing so you say that life coaching is more of helping someone discover their journey what if I don't know what I want that's where you start with your personality what you want to learn though it involves both psychology because you see also since personality is in psychology you have to learn what you like what are you goals it's a growing process actually nani is instant both of them is something you just sit down discover slowly and get to learn there and between the two which one do you enjoy most both of course they are interlinked because again I tend to find people thinking I'm having a mental health issues I think no but then again this is not even that this is more life coaching it's because also the issues you have to learn what do you use to are you depressed or maybe are you lacking financial skills because you find that some of these issues again people might think do you have anxiety or is it because you can't manage a certain skill when it comes to people are you having issues of public speaking or are you anxious for which both of them can be interrelated and you as a person as a psychologist in a life coach do you ever find yourself in that position where you need the help we all have to we all have to most people ask me I think even a week ago I was working on a project and I forgot something like who do you go for when you need help and just like we do attempts we do to peer to peer like a fellow psychologist you can go talk it's called the briefing whereby you talk to somebody attempts you need your own therapy because most of the times you get to be the offloading point people give you a lot if you are not careful that can end up in your system or you need your own human as well so you need also to go talk to somebody we also have our own personal lives you have your family you have your issues you have ATC so how do you get to now handle that because when the time I'm coming to basin to your issues I have to make sure I'm okay so if I'm having my own things I need to work on I need as well need somebody we all have a way to go about it so you take a break from work and deal with your issues how do you separate your work and your personal life I think when you've done it for a while you already know even when you speak to a client and something triggers you but you already know when to call your therapist say you know like can I see you or can we talk about this I think this triggered me or this what happened unless it's very I wouldn't say I've gotten to I take breaks but I wouldn't really say it's that much of I really need to do this like if I don't do this I can see a client or something but people are it's helpful okay so you're also a mental health advocate theater and acycology is the life coach maybe you can share with us some of the mental health issues that you have dealt with or that are rampant in this time okay I think Kenya we have a thing for depression because it feels like if you trust everybody everything if you in bad mood swings if you're not talking to people maybe they're depressed if you're uncapped people I think most of the time that's one that I've seen and we have a thing for self-diagnosis as people so I think that would be one of the things but the other issues basic issues like trauma trauma is a huge thing especially in childhood trauma you find that most people in our society have things people who are 30 years old who are angry at something that happened at five years there's somebody who's 60 years angry at the sister of brother that's something they did at 15 or 18 that's something also common we also have family issues parental issues that are also common where people you find that they see sibling rivalry I think that's in every African society I'm starting to think so in every society we have another one is a steam issues especially even in men here I have to like put that in capital letters which is also there I think it's basic life skills that we didn't get then now translates to suicide of thoughts mental health, anxiety, ATC and you say that even in men there's like self-esteem issues and there's this common misconception or say that men really don't need to open up how true is that what's your comment about that I think for the past since 2017 I've been doing an event called masculinity mandate it's more about men how do men deliver issues how do men live their life and you find that men are human too I think they have more issues than us women and even when I was coming in they're like go talk about women now and I'm thinking here girls have a lot of issues and most of the time it's just that I think the way we're brought up or socialized as women we are not supposed to you know when you're with a man there I think he's supposed to listen to you more than you're supposed to listen to him most of the time it's about him like how was your day and it's about you venting other than the other way around you asking him how was your day or even your brother or your father you asking them how was your day and they get to say had a bad day and asking we don't go the extra step to ask why what happened and how you feeling about this and how do you and I was like want to just help break that cycle of you know manhole is having to appear strong but they're hurting on the inside okay for many for many takes time most of the time but it's okay for people to speak out but something I've also learnt when you in a circle of men and one opens up and another one can relate you find that oh me too this thing is normal I think for men they just need one person to speak among the circle you friends with like five guys and you have an issue if you be the person who speaks out then the others feel comfortable talking and you guys can sit down and talk they just need to feel like I'm not the only one or to feel that I want to be when I'm weak or something of the sort but maybe it's a lot of men opening up okay that's nice so you said that Ken has a thing for depression so maybe you can help understand what depression really is and you can say then okay most of the time what I say depression you have to be diagnosed it's not something you sit down and wake up and say I think I'm depressed you can see the sense and symptoms but it really take a professional to sit down and it's not a one time thing you don't come to me as a professional and you just like you have depression and I can try to a psychiatrist then go for evaluation it's something that happens it's a cycle you have to have assessment they have to track down your behavior general down your behavior it's something that happens over time yeah and what's the difference between being depressed and being anxious okay anxiety is more of okay most of the time anxiety comes with physical symptoms like once you can see for example panic attacks whereby you find somebody can't breathe it's more of the physical thing then the triggers are more visible other for depression some people can be subconsciously depressed but for anxiety if somebody is anxious you just going to say they are shaking you know the way they talk they are sweating some of them sweat some can't even move it's more for anxiety it's more you can pinpoint it and stress and for stress it's for stress then some people are good at masking because then again you are told stress is normal of which is normal then there's good stress and bad stress and then most of the time I think we focus on the bad side of it there's good stress whereby you get motivated to do something like you feel like if I don't achieve this or if I don't do this I'm going to achieve you know that's a motivation and then there's bad stress whereby it's the negative energy that comes with it now for stress unless you get to know what's making you uncomfortable when are you moving out of your routine when was the last time you were happy like genuinely feeling happy how difficult is it for you maybe at work how is it impacting your life and those close to you then from there that's when it goes up to something like depression when you now can't control it you have to see a professional or something so when a client talks into your office what is the first thing that you do history taking okay history taking yeah like you need to know who are they why did they come here is there history of mental health in the family why do they feel they need to see you need to know what you're dealing with before you even get there yeah and let's say yes after the history taking you start the healing process then after you feel like the client is now okay do you do follow up or maybe just go there only you know something mental health is supposed to be like like a medical checkup whereby you don't have to be sick or you don't even have to have issues to go for therapy no you can just go sit there and talk to somebody about anything and the beauty about it when you sit down and talk it's when you get to maybe figure out an idea the beauty I tell people a bit about therapy I'm not there to charge you I'm there to listen to you I don't have even an opinion about you know the person you can just go sit down do whatever you want and they're just going to know are you okay you're comfortable you're good as long as you're good that's okay so do you make decisions for people am I you help them figure out what is right do we help you figure out unless it's now a condition whereby maybe you need to be in a hospital or it's above your control because you find there are situations like let's say schizophrenia bipolar at some extent whereby if you're suicidal too and we feel like you're danger to yourself or somebody else you and your close ones can sit down and realize this is the best way to go for you so you have a program called Jitunza program and you can share what it is about Jitunza as the sohili name says take care of yourself and for me to have when you look around if you would take care of yourself that's the whole concept because you find that again there's love we have as Africans we have a blame culture whereby you feel when you said it's because 1, 2, 3 did this to me why you deprived or how did you end up this it's because my parents and whoever and whoever did why you like this because I was neglected as a child there's only something about somebody else why you only hungry at work it's because my boss did want to it's never about I did this or I didn't do this so for this it's about from the basics how do you take care of yourself how do you get to learn about yourself it's more of a cost program whereby you get to start from the basics identity, self awareness social awareness how do you get to unpack that then from there you're able to know what are the best ways to take care of yourself how do you how do you get to support them those who are around you are you prone to mental health issues do you have financial issues how do you get to take care of that here so how do you guys function do you like go to communities and talk to them amma you have an office set up where people come and learn this is more of a request program whereby it's the same thing as life coaching or something so other than doing so in the years of doing this I've learnt some of these issues they're not even issues that are supposed to be ending people's society or depressed whatever came up with something that people would sit down and even you as you you and your girlfriends do you have a topic you want to learn about can you maybe figure out esteem is a common issue common issue among estals what do you get to learn about that can you sit down it's more of a request program whereby you and your friends or your peers come around I do schools whereby we can go to school but it's no more of the motivation talk it's more of the learning process for schools it's a four year program when you take it maybe in high school and you get down with it at four so it's something continuous how do you get to learn about yourself how do you get to learn about your personality because these are not things we were taught in our system so now when you are all grown ups that's when you're trying to figure out what do I like am I a sangwin don't like me for my intro so this is more of sitting down and getting to paying attention to yourself because I think we were taught like paying attention to ourselves as selfish now how do you get to learn that and do you have a group that you guys focus on or you do all ages from children to youth to the old people what I've done and I've partnered with different people because I'm not able in a position to handle everybody so what happens we have different psychologists in my database so if somebody needs this and I'm not in a position to handle it or I'm doing something else I know who is best dealing with issues of men and who is best in child psychology and who is best in life coaching I just to refer then we have like more of a curriculum or a guideline that you're supposed to follow and we fly with it just go ahead how long have you guys operated the jitunza wellness program this is going to be jitunza was released actually I was thinking about this before I came in case the donors come I realised that we got officially in 2018 that's when now if you go to the books in the papers that's when jitunza is now started but this has been happening since 2017 so it's about four years also and what are the things that motivate you to go on to go on and to push on I think as an individual is waking up each morning and somebody is like thank you I think this worked for me that for me that's it like seeing somebody saying oh my child is now better oh can we or somebody saying oh I liked what you did with 133 can I come how can we get to do this you see that feedback whereby you're like this is the weirdest career ever you help people so that they can move away from you you give them solutions so that they can't become your clients anymore but just looking up and somebody is saying oh you did a good job you see that small message in WhatsApp or something somebody said I know you said this is the group or you were talking about this in the group but one week later somebody say I actually practiced this and it's you know helped me I think that's also later time but now we're moving beyond in Africa and we are starting now our small communities elsewhere that's really nice and some of the challenges that maybe you've experienced in your long case challenges is that the people who really need this can't afford it so you find that especially during COVID are you going to pay your bills are you going to buy your food are you going to sit down and pay other of this to our psychologists to come you know talk to them that's not a priority actually to most people then you find that you see those issues and at times then again people most of the time when people are coming to you they're already at the point of there's a lot of those have been done if this was realized early and then again we have a culture of the other day so somebody opened me on Facebook telling somebody you need to be prayed for they're now trying to describe these are mental health issues or these are behavior issues that totally have nothing to do with prayers at times I wonder God okay people put a lot on him because those are maybe the challenges and again language has also been a barrier because I feel like I'd like to reach more people in let's say Turkana, Western something but how do you get to communicate that because I think one was in 2017 there's a community called the guys who in the Netherlands and they have a community called my family they do project somewhere in I don't know Turkana somewhere and they were saying this works in one of my main challenges they asked me how do you feel the Maasai community feels when there is drought and all the cows pass away are they stressed but how do you get to communicate that to such people when there is drought or something do those kids I think for us we've gotten to a comfort zone whereby we think it's normal for those people to be hungry or to be sick and we don't know what's the process what's the trauma that goes with that how do you get to communicate how many psychologists do we have up there like how do you get to communicate with them and then that's another issue language language barrier yeah because then you find most of our African languages we don't have mental health I don't know where you come from which part of Kenya but you were told to say depression is bad language I'm sure you'll be like I have no idea I think that should be a question for the week or something so you feel that has most of it's been an issue the most people really need this because the people who have suffered the most they were known as in social media that you can be able to google to write what about those people who don't understand this as much as you won't go there and do this I'm so sure I wouldn't speak that language and they even don't know they're depressed in the first place yeah and then you say the mistake we do most of the time as a society we forget that those people I'm a parent actually so we forget that those people they're going to come back into the city or anywhere they're going to meet with my kid and those kids that are traumatized they're going to relate with my child what's the byproduct they're going to date with my daughter what happens next because again we can't be educated in one part of Kenya or the society and living in the other part around because these people are still going to meet yeah so what's the role of the society or Kenya itself in fighting mental health and then that's why it goes back to it's a personal thing then when you move to yourself then how do you educate your sister, your brother it's a more of a social thing like if you know about these things or you've heard about this thing why not move next to your family member or your girlfriends your boyfriends your men you circle then tap it I think everybody has somebody who lives in or somewhere we would say in up country how about stopping into those people then I think as a country we can be able to do so much because I'm so sure by the time yes they're professionals in those areas but how much can they do then again you find that we are country of mental health issues but every year we have psychologists graduating how are we able to maybe put those people to the society or community levels so talking about corona and the difficult times maybe you can tell us how you're keeping afloat during these hard times I'd say I'm also into business and I have an amazing business partner who is totally amazing so for myself or maybe being able to help her again I'm blessed enough so that's good enough but then again not everybody has the luxury of that or not everybody is comfortable doing that as I say most of the time if a mental health is not a priority it's not food, it's not shelter it's not clothing so for me I'd say okay but I've seen other people who are yeah it's a bit hard for them to move to that part and I tell you know even me as a professional I know when I tell you go mentor this boy go talk to the people you need transport by the end of the day if you're a parent you need to go back to the house your kids need to eat then after that how do you pay your rent so it becomes a bit difficult for people too to be able to do some of these things or to help the society unless they're doing it straight at their doorstep then also again you find that professionals are also humans it's hard for me to come tell you not to get stressed don't worry about food or shelter it becomes a bit so what advice would you give to Kenyans or people who are watching right now and what advice would you give them how should they deal during this hard times because I'm hoping this time will end up very soon I'm hoping soon it's going to be over but for now it's a day at a time a step at a time nobody is okay I believe most people included me we didn't meet our goals for last year and this year we just decided figure yourself out then after that then the basic thing you woke up your life that's good enough living is basically good enough then how do you get to build up on that don't pressure yourself don't pressure yourself I think it's a global thing I ask even the president himself social he didn't meet whatever he wanted for Kenyan last year so I think everybody is struggling in their own way so don't pressure yourself don't stress yourself a day at a time if you can be in a position to help help and don't think it ever goes to waste if you're giving somebody help in hand and for you it's more you never know very poor effect you never know what you're doing for somebody else so what's your vision like where do you want to see yourself in the next few years few years worldwide for now I'm living on the mantra of Africa it's Africa and beyond so right now we're hoping possibly by the end of the month we'll hit 15 countries and just more and more get into communities how do you get to establish a jitun the community as well because African issues are not the same they're not like different these are the same issues we suffer the same way whatever is happening Kenyan is the same thing that's happening in Tanzania Uganda Nigeria when you talk about awareness and people can understand what's mental health that's the same thing those people are struggling with how about and my vision is how about my experiences in Kenya can I get to share them also can somebody get to share the experiences in Nigeria or somewhere else can I see what can I pick from them take it back here in Kenya and maybe to luck can we pick whatever I'm doing here and you know take it out there so so far how many countries have you been able to reach right now three so far we're working in three countries so far like in Nigeria Ghana and Burundi and we hope in India soon and how would you compare the way they receive I think for me I must actually it's something I've had to learn I think we know I've not been exposed in terms of language so first of all for me language was awake of course they have finger in English and I'm like okay wait now I have to listen all this to the but for them again okay in West Africa it's a bit tricky because you know they believe in the witchcraft it is the culture is more deep than it is now having to you know and do that and what they learn and for those who are open minded and what do they practice I'd say we are almost at the same level it's more about for us when it comes to mental health mental health is very fresh in Africa we are doing other basics we are learning because I'm so sure when was the first time you had the time suicide I think I hear it almost every day no I mean the first time you had it the first time I had suicide was it in high school after high school after high school definitely so you can only imagine you teach it in these things after high school okay so what do we have to do now we are still young so we are at the basic step we are not even at we are at the preventive stage and educational stage then again we have to do like we are trying to do damage control, educate and help people at the same time because one you find that I wish small kids in primary and that's what we are doing maybe somebody taught me about self esteem when I was young somebody taught you about how to be life coaching how to set up your goals when you were 5 years old and how to do the vision board and it's kind of funny these kids outside there they learn these things when they are 6, 7 or something these are the things we are teaching in companies here at 40 oh yes at 50 just like okay we have a long way to go but can we still keep going and then that's one of the things in Africa we are still at the basic stage let's learn this because if you go and ask somebody outside as I said we don't even have languages for mental health if you go ask somebody else we are outside here what is mental health what do you think about mental health what's depression what's anxiety what's bipolar you know what society is what's trauma some people are just going to love it and be like if that thing sounds for me you know it sounds for me so I think we just at the basic stage educate yourself we have to do like a whole introduction program whereby trauma is stress management and that's what we do okay so as we end the show you can give us a patting shot give your views a patting shot I'll still say take care of yourself because nobody will come it's not a blame game thing another society is interlinked but how do you put your boundaries around how do you ensure that nobody is blamed whatever you're going through take care of yourself that's basic thing if you have any issues speak out it's nobody's going to judge you if you feel we on social media jitunze in twitter jitunze underscore ke Facebook jitunze underscore ke Twitter yeah I've seen Twitter Instagram jitunze underscore ke yeah we have her Richard and the people who are willing to volunteer as well that time we have volunteers even in Nairobi okay so thank you so much for joining us it was a pleasure having this discussion about you and I've learnt a few things and I'm sure people also have learnt you're welcome just like kuch and a mental health advocate who has told us that we should take care of ourselves and it's true we should take care of ourselves we should take care of our mental health our health our physical health and make sure that you fit before you go and you know fight issues out there so right about now we're going to go for a short break but usyende pahali will be back with more don't forget to follow us on all our social media platforms at Y254 channel