 Sigo hablando, sí, sigo hablando. Probando. Bájalo. Ok, ahora. There we go. Ok. Hi y'all. Ok. Thank you for sticking around and for those of you who are new to this session. Thank you. We're going to welcome. Everyone's welcome. Ok. So, here we are in the second part of aesthetics. The conversation is called Latinx theater making a difference. And we sort of are going to let the conversation happen organically rather than a structure as we had had it earlier. But we're using a long table format. For those of you who have never been at a long table, I'll describe how it works. For those of you who have been at a long table, my description is probably wrong because I made it up. Or I interpreted the actual lowest we've reformed. Added a moderator in a throne. Anyway, ok. So, it's a long table. It's a performance of a dinner party conversation. The thing on the menu is conversation. And I think what we're going to do is Georgina will be moderating the conversation. So she'll be at the table the entire time. We've invited six guests to start the conversation. So all talking will happen at the table. So if you want to talk, there are two seats that are open. Anyone at any time throughout the conversation is welcome to join the table. If there's not a seat and someone's at the table and they've not been talking, you're welcome to tap them out. If you're... Or if they've been talking too much and you're like, I'm done listening to you. Get off the table. You're welcome to do that too. If you're done at the table and you want to make space for someone else, you're welcome to leave at any time. For those of you sitting around the table, if you have a pen and paper, write down if you have any questions and you're like, I don't want to ask this now, but I want to write it down. If at any point anyone feels moved, I will be scribing some notes that come up. If anyone feels moved to just come and add something to the wall, you're welcome to come add to the wall. This is very open and organic. It's being livestreamed. I need to let you all know that. That's why we have the microphones. If you are at the table, just make sure you use a microphone when you're speaking. I think that's it. Is there anything else that I need to say? I think that's it. Does anyone have any questions? If you don't know the rules, it doesn't matter, break them. Everyone at the table will just... If you guys on this end will pass this one around and just be generous. We'll have one person talking at a time. We welcome differing opinions. We encourage them. We welcome dialogue. We ask that everyone come generously and be open and listen to each other. That's really all that we ask. We're going to first start off with Eric Aviles who's going to lead us in something really quickly. Let's move right here to start off the conversation cleaning the stage, cleaning the space, cleaning our spirits. A lot of us we go through a lot of stuff and we carry a lot of trauma. Just what we witnessed earlier. You can see that. I'm going to light this stage up. It's a form of Olympia. So in this moment in time I want you to think to yourself what you want to let go. And what light you want to bring into your heart. It's going to go this direction. I'm going to go to the left. Usually you sage your whole body. You don't have enough time for that. Take that moment. Breathe in and pass the sage. Can I have your permission to do this? No. Thank you. Alright. Thank you. Eric. Who did you miss? Thank you. With that. Hi, my name is Georgina Escobar. I'm going to be the moderator. That doesn't really mean anything other than a fancy chair. It really means if things percolate, if I catch certain subjects, take us a certain direction I'm going to try to steer us there just innately and that's for all of us. We are all on this long table together and everyone in the circle is part of a circle as well. With the lighting of the sage I just want to invoke this ancient wisdom that I think we possess and that makes us truly extraordinary as a community. Latin America is a land of enchantment. I truly believe that and I think we are symbolic by nature. I think we are emotional and I want us to invite those things in instead of the rational or the polemic. Just bring in your heart. Allow yourselves to be possessed by something so ancient that you really do feel as if those words aren't coming out of you. I think in that way we can really start to chisel and respond to what I feel was a call to action. That's why we're changing the form a bit because I think we need to focus on making a difference in what that means to us. So I will be talking sometimes. Don't stop talking if you see me pick up the microphone. Can I have you each introduce yourselves? Just give us a little bit. I know some of you checked in today so for the group and for the table. And as David said, if you want to join the table you can either tap someone in the shoulder and have them step out or you can join in the empty seats. Okay? Thanks. Yes, please introduce yourself in the pronoun that you'd prefer. That you use. Thank you. Buenos tardes. My name is Alex Santiago Jiro. He, him, and his. El. I am the director of education at New York Theatre Workshop here in the East Village. Puerto Ricanio. I am a professor of educational theater at New York University. I teach graduate courses in theater of the oppressed, political theater, Latin American political theater as well. Hi, Buenos dias. I'm Chantal Rodriguez. I am the assistant dean of the Yale School of Drama, which is new for me, about three months into that position. But formerly, for the past seven years with the Latino Theater Company, present down the cover of American Theater Magazine. So, and been a steering committee member for a while and my pronouns are she, her, and hers. Hi, I'm Irma Mallorca. Currently I'm an assistant professor at Dartmouth College. I'm a director, dramaturg, designer. I love Virginia Grace. Over there wrote, she and I together wrote a play called The Pansamana Logs, which I'm just amazed to see her. We haven't seen each other in a long time since she's a long time collaborator. And the I'm from Tejas. I'm a Tejana, San Antonio. Almost fifth generation on my mother's side. So pure Tejana. And the pronouns that I prefer to use are she, her, and she, her, and hers. Hi, everybody. My name is Alex Mehta. I, with a collective of women from all over the country, run an ensemble called Teatro Luna, based out of Chicago and Los Angeles. I'm a producer and I am just getting into the genre of digital film and what that can do for theater and for, beyond that, our activities around action. Oh, and I'm she, her, hers. Thank you. Hi, everyone. I'm Isaac Gomez. I use he, him, his pronouns. I am a playwright, a dramaturg and the director of new play development at Victory Gardens Theater. I teach a civic dramaturgy at De Paul University, which essentially deconstructs dramaturgical frameworks and reconstructs them through a sociopolitical lens. And a steering committee member of the theater commons. Tejano born and raised El Paso, Texas. El Paso, tú también. Sí, el Paso represent. We're hitting it up. Yeah, that's it. Hi, I'm Fernando Parmurti. He, him, his, el. I don't have an institution. I'm a director of theater and opera based in New York City. And I was born in Chihuahua, Mexico. But I was raised in Texas. Texas and the Hose. Dallas. I'm going to ask that as you come and join the table and you get ready to talk, you just give the same sort of introduction to the table. So what I want to kind of launch this way, that's a lot. But the theme of making a difference and to get us there, the first thing I kind of want to ask or have you sit with is with the idea of igniting and activating our role as theater makers in the Latinx community. Can one of you jump into what is Latinx theater? What does that mean in the sense of making a difference? How are we different? How is, you can go back in the future, be creative about what you can enlighten us with and have a conversation amongst yourselves more than anything. I'll jump then. I'm going to contradict myself, that's just what I do. I personally, after hearing you frame the question in that way, my instinct is to respond I reject the term Latinx theater because in this moment it feels as though it's a vocabulary of the oppressor rather as a description of a type of theater they want to place really specific labels on and I reject those labels in that sense. Can we have another conversation about are there particular similar aesthetics across certain Latinx artists? Maybe, but I think I'm just in a place right now where I'm really feeling that our internalized oppression has brought to the surface our need to actually encounter the monolith based on us and run with that rather than really holding on to and valuing our differences our nuanced differences between our countries of origin, between our birthplaces between all those things and I run a pan Latina theater company that is now a women of color theater company but still Latina, right? I'm constantly in dialogue with these terms but I think to finish my point they feel like terms and vocabulary of the oppressor rather than our own, not that we cannot reinvigorate them and own them again but there's something about them that feels other to me. I was actually going to agree I think that there is how to define something using the tools of the master it's a really difficult it's a colonial attitude and one of the things that really struck with me as we were seeing the works that we all created this morning was sort of the language of colonialism the first piece hit home because I'm Puerto Rican and just to give you a little bit of context of what just happened in Puerto Rico we sort of elected our own Trump in fact the conservative party in Puerto Rico was just elected into office and the irony is that we in Puerto Rico voted against our interests and it's I think is something that we are coming to terms with that working class as much as we want to working class people as much as we want to necessarily attach to that term because it's limiting voted against our interests what does that mean it means that to use your term internalize oppression it's alive and well and transformation is about trying to imagine new actions new languages new forms of communicating it's about imagining and future a different reality and that's what I loved about the exercise this morning because it's about theater is about that ideal quote unquote impossible moment it's about imagining a new not a new structure or paradigm but really a new reality and and that's the discussion that we should be having but it's really difficult to have a connection by the tools and the language of our oppressors I actually think that that's truantized into like how do we define aesthetic is something I've been thinking a lot about in coming into this is through what lens for who and why if aesthetics are shifting and evolving based on a cultural context but are then reverberated through theater criticism that large es creada por los pocos, entonces, ¿cuáles son los métodos en los que estamos desafiando nuestra propia interpretación de estética, antes de que podamos incluso tener una conversación más profunda sobre los desafíos, los obstáculos, y los métodos de empoderamiento? Y también, ¿cómo podemos criticar a cada uno en nuestro trabajo sin ser self-congratulatorios? Solo porque hicimos un juego no significa que es bueno. Entonces, ¿cuáles son los métodos en los que podemos continuar a empoderar nuestra edad y tener conversaciones de integridad artística en conversación con la implicación moral? Y no solo nuestra propia apresión internalizada, pero nuestra propia entidad anti-blackness, nuestra propia homofobia y transfobia, todo eso. Creo que algo que me hace pensar, Isaac, ya que hicimos un juego, ¿cómo podemos also bring critique to that work? Because I think sometimes we often let each other off the hook in a way that is not moving, my interest is in moving the genre forward. I want aesthetics that are bold and imaginative, and I think as a scholar I often see the long arc of where we've been. So sometimes I'm like, yes, I have a thing where I'm like, it's realism, can we go somewhere else? So that's my thing. But at the same time, I think what a lot of the purview has taught me, and I can never leave it out of the idea of what we produce, is the way that capitalism intersects with our work, and the fact that we can write to my desire bold aesthetic imaginings, bold aesthetic places, but we are still at the behest right now, and again to think not as scarcity as we were told on the first night, but abundance. But just to visit, I think that we still need to mark how we have this competing desire of perhaps wanting to be in a large regional theater, which has capitalist interests, butts in seats interests, that sometimes, more than often, don't coincide with our aesthetic adventures, nor do they coincide with a deep politic that runs through Latino theater. We become too abundant for them, too political, too adventurous, too far from the mainstream, and I think all of that, I'm always thinking about that because I'm always trying to foster a new aesthetic, always knowing it's going to rub against the way American theater has convened itself, which is why a lot of the LTC work excites me because we're trying to think about different models, new paradigms, which somehow surmount the capitalism that runs through American theater. And I also think at the same time, some of the most interesting aesthetics that I find are outside of those large regionals where people get no recognition, they're in communities, they're in backyards, they're in untraditional spaces, and I want to see that in American theater magazines, Latino issue, frankly. I guess, just to go back to your question, perhaps I want to answer it in an idealistic way. I mean, to me, I was just watching some Facebook video of Fidel Castro's grandson being really angry at Venezuelans, blah, blah, blah. They were burning the Cuban flag recently, they were having protests and riots in Venezuela. And I thought about, and it took me back to a recent film workshop that I was in for directors of color, and they sort of pushed this agenda of doing your own personal story. They wanted to see something from Mexico or something very... I mean, whatever it was, that was my story. And I sort of fought back on that, and I said, well, I don't want to do my story. I sort of see myself within the context of a larger thing, which is Latin, and that's a hard thing to define when we could be here for hours defining that. But I find it really important in this specific time to really... I think look beyond our own history. I'm Mexican, I will always be Mexican. I will always be proud of that. But I want to... I want to explore stories and things of Guatemala. I want to explore things about Cuba. I want to explore things about Chile Argentina o Colombia. I want... I think... our specific time in this country right now, it's so important for us to really actually think outside the box, within our box. I don't know if that makes sense. But to... I don't know. For me, that is our power. If we don't... If we somehow are able to shed the nationalistic element of being Mexican American or Colombian American or Puerto Rican American, if we find a way to like actually blend for me, that's a really big thing that I think makes Latino Theater more powerful. I'm just ruminating on this notion of ancestry that started off this whole session because I was really struck as we did our performances, particularly the first one for me, reminded me of Latin's Anonymous, which, you know, Diane Rodriguez, Rick Naheda, you know, folks that I studied when I was seeking out our forms. I came to Latino Theater through August Wilson. I had had a background in primarily sort of western European Theater and it wasn't until I saw what Wilson was doing that like, oh, you can do this and then sought out where are the stories in my community. And being Cuban American, my mom's from Spain, my dad's from Cuba, but I grew up in LA, so it was really sort of, Chicano Theater became my ancestry and the blending for me happened in that way of where did I find the language that I was seeking or where did I find the cultural connection that was something I could relate to. At the same time, I think we have to think about intersectionality because Chicano Theater, for me, as a woman, didn't, you know, there was always a barrier, a resistance and something that actually didn't relate to me. And so that's where I'm constantly seeking or where are our intersections and particularly when we work against anti-blackness and the homophobia in our own communities, this is where we have to do the work. And even in the conversation of Latinx or slash, like four or five slashes at the end of Latin, it's like this is not particular just to our community and so how do we find those connections? How do, you know, can we make new discoveries about Latino theater by, you know, doing Adrian Kennedy plays? You know, how can we, how do we look at how oppressed people have used the arts and share those strategies? At the same time, you know, we are a Latinx Theater Commons and so we do find use in the umbrella. So it's hard. I agree, it is sort of, we're working against the master's tools at the same time there is, I think, value in the circle, right? Well, the beginning, oh, my name's Teresa and I use she and I was born in Cuba but I grew up in Southern California and I now live in Texas. So your comment about voting against our better interests, I grew up in a very right wing Republican family, mother and father of a poor middle class and I would have this conversation with my parents and I'm saying you're voting against your class interests, of course that sounded like communism to them but they didn't have health insurance, I didn't have a lot of things, my mother was a sweatshop, seamstress. So that led me to think well, why is it that people vote against what is perceived to be their better interests and it led me to think for the sake of what? For the sake of what? Why are they doing this? And in the case of my parents it was the idea for the sake of the fatherland, patria and all that stuff. So that's led me today to think about what is it that is worth protecting because they voted against their own better interests thinking that they were protecting something. So I would like to bring that to the table what is worth protecting for us. What ideals, what practices are worth protecting in a very, very fundamental daily practice sort of manner. Hey, I'm Ricardo and any pronoun you prefer I prefer. Girl is always good. So I respond well to it. So I'm struck as I was sitting outside I was struck by the comment of like invoking our ancestors and letting that emotional self take over and also the I like to live up here a lot and how intellectual I can be but I'm trying to like to sit with my deep discomfort about certain things and particularly about myself in this room and in these conversations I'm a Puerto Rican born in Ames, fucking Iowa. So I have so many thoughts about Puerto Rican independence and my homeland and my Tierra Natal and like the nostalgia I hold for that place but who am I to fucking talk about a nation that I am divorced from physically. You know that I go back to once a year. I have a stake in this conversation about colorism right in the Latino community and look at look at me I'm a light skin motherfucker what does that mean, what stake do I have in the conversation, look around this table look around this room and what is missing and what is here and what is not. So I'm thinking about representation I'm thinking about the bodies that we put on stage, the conversations we have and I feel some shame about my part in building the master's house in living comfortably in the master's house my desire to dismantle the master's house and my belief that actually the master's tools are the things to do that with because the screw fits and and just the how overwhelmed I am by what the fuck. You know I can go I can talk real calm about this I can get real intellectual about this I can talk about systemic oppression and internalized oppression but I'm really curious about I'm a playwright so what do I fucking do on the ground to tell stories that actually shift the monolith that we're discussing Yes Alex, I'll give you an opportunity, let's embrace both of those points because I think they go together and what is worth protecting that question let's let that sit and simmer as well as what the fuck, what do I do on the ground I think that's very present right now with Brexit, Colombia, Puerto Rico everybody voting against their interests and Trump and all these things what do we do where's our yes in this landscape of no as performers so just let those sit there when it comes to you, how it comes to you Just a couple of things from each of the threads we're pulling Seth got in on his blog recently and I've seen it before but if you want to stand for something you can't stand for everything I don't know if I agree with that I don't know how I feel about it do we all have to be standing for the same thing to be part of the same circle, I don't think so can we honor the differences and how you're on the ground doing it versus how I'm on the ground doing it and that the full ecology is necessary I think sometimes we don't allow the full ecology to have its full value and going back to aesthetics and critique so as a director of course I'm all up, I want to have that aesthetics the aesthetics conversation we tend to have which is about look and choices and those kinds of physical aesthetics but I'm more interested in critiquing my fellow Latinx artists on are you co-opting the term community are you co-opting the term political and I feel like that's where we need to be holding ourselves accountable in a way and also like with this ridiculous idea that we promote all the time that like we in America in the United States are advancing a professionalized beautiful theatrical experience when Latin America I'm sorry is frankly very ahead and so and we have identified this kind of very and listen I do theater with nothing with no budgets I'm not talking about big budget and there's value in doing it outside in a tent and it got whatever it is but this idea that that's the theater we brought with us from over there there's a dissonance there that I'm uncomfortable with and how we like I don't know make it the poor people of Latin America I don't know do you guys know what I'm saying nostalgia Thanks Julian Messery I live in New York but I was born in Buenos Aires and I make work in both countries I use he his him and just to piggyback on that you know there is it's interesting as Latinos because I mean I always had that problem too it's like I'm Latin X I'm Latin American I'm Argentine it's like because you know in Latin America you don't really have that conversation that often you're usually just whatever country you're from or you're Latino Americano and I think that you know and I like that you said like oh this is the professional theater and then oh here's like the cool like poor theater you know and I think that there's there's a lot that we can learn from from the way theater is done in the Americas especially when we think of kind of what Irma was saying about not just capitalism but the means through which we make our productions because we talk about aesthetics the way in which a production actually gets created the economics of it the way in which the you know the institutional structure around it that is aesthetics like that's not not aesthetics and so when we talk about independent theater like Buenos Aires or in DF or in Bogotá Santiago like you've got independent theater and what that really means is people whose priority isn't just I'm going to write a play isn't just I'm going to tell this story because it's important but I'm actually going to produce it and that is where the the essence is it's people want to make it present and the play means nothing just having some friends together and doing a reading in your house is something but giving it to an audience and the ambition of just I'm going to give it to an audience I don't need thousands of dollars I just want to sort of make it work that in and of itself is a political act and if we're thinking ourselves as artists as artists first and not actually careers or businesses which we need artists first that's where the priorities go and that means making sacrifices as well in terms of how we organize just quickly wanted to say that because of capitalism the word aesthetics has been coopted by the market can we just go back to the semantics of it aesthetics means from its roots in the greek language and that of course is political as well of the census engagement of the census right it's not about a particular form of engagement but it's about artistic engagement and that is subjective to the individual and of course it's a political word because it is about also political engagement through the census it's not about a particular form of beauty right or a subjective approach to beauty and that has been coopted right my theater mentor Augusto Boal used to say that theater is a weapon and that it should be a democratic space right and that it's a space for learning it's a space for engagement it's a form of being in the world not necessarily a way to separate actors from audiences I am interested in theater that it's not necessarily presenting itself as a way to just tell stories but engage audiences and individuals in the learning and the expressions of their stories because that's a political act because through that storytelling and engagement we might be able to devise or envision a different political reality and find the tools and the means to enact that to fight that struggle towards transformation which is the thing that I was saying but you know when I'm having a conversation about aesthetics with someone I am interested in always engaging in a political understanding of what aesthetics is which is not just about a subjective you know market based approach to beauty because we don't fit into it right not all of us fit particularly the American context but of course some of it is devoid from that engagement with others that it's pedagogical that it's about all of us having the means of production and by that I mean not necessarily just putting on a play but real the tools theater as a way of learning live in communicating, dialoguing in the world not just the means of producing a beautiful play hello hold on I got to write down this last thought before I lose it totally so my name is Rose Cano from Seattle I'm the artistic director of ese teatro and I like the way that the conversation is keeps kind of coming back to aesthetics because well actually this as two titles what does it mean to be Latinx, Latinx we haven't even agreed on a pronunciation much less as a commons agreed if we have adopted it yet so some of it feels premature I hearken to kind of what Alex says the just for me personally to my background I'm from Peru grew up in Seattle then moved back to Peru then moved back to Seattle and lived for a time in Argentina so I feel connected to what we may think of a Latin American theater movement but going back to the indigenous roots that so many of the indigenous languages are our binary that everything in the world is seen as two sun and moon earth and fire and so that does not bother me that I feel like is part of our native ancestry there's some such complicated languages in the jungle that there will be words for because Spanish is is gender but in a kind of more simple way in some Amazonian languages there's a whole set of words for women a whole set of words for for men and so I don't live there and I also feel a way of seeing the world which I'm sure is much more complex than I'm able to say now so that as just kind of a a preface of curiosity the the now the second part of the convening we're talking about aesthetics and this is great to kind of dissect what does that mean aesthetics it is something subjective but also the way of producing theater I think is creative and also aesthetic like being brought up so I hope that during these days we talk about our way our means of putting theater on but that we protect what is the critique of our own work because like someone said just because we get it out there doesn't mean it's good and I feel like now we're really ripe for commenting on so many things happening in the world could there be anything more happening in the world right now it seems like you know Fidel died I mean first Trump and it turns out I was in Peru the day before I flew back for the elections I'm like whoa what is this and then I was marching in Seattle the next day it was very much like being in South American the 80s so in that way I came very much so it's kind of like oh I really relate to this and then they're standing rock and then Fidel dies and then Leonard Cohen die probably because Trump was elected I don't know so I feel like we're in upheaval so I feel like if we hang on to our self critique we avoid our self congratulatory you know just because I get it out there doesn't mean it's great but like Irma was saying you know what you know what are what are the things we're protecting so I would just like to find more spaces of really analyzing each other's work and not because it's not going to a regional theater or being honored by an award is that the validation let's see let me wrap up so anyway I just would like to move it to really specifically talking about are there certain elements that we can analyze about our work which is so broad okay hi just two things real quick hi I'm Claudia Costa I'm with the Soul Project actor, writer, director producer, teaching artist anyway I had two things I think in helping isolate what Latinx theater is is are we speaking about American Latino theater or Latin American theater because those are two distinct things and then those are two different conversations of aesthetics and I think Latin American Latino theater is the conversation with Latin America and my second the second thing I don't know how that how we can process that of like you know what that means and then the other part was like I remember reading a quote from Maria Irene Fornes y I was like I'm going to see theater to see themselves validated so while we're asking ourselves what are we willing to protect you know what are we willing to validate and if that is our approach you know how can we also flip it you know this isn't really a question or won't answer that in any way but it's something for the impossible I'm intrigued by the idea of movement and not movement like political it can be anything I mean actual like what Alex was saying that if you want to stand for something you can't stand for everything that's true because that keeps you stagnant but you can certainly march for every fucking thing you know like you can you can move you can move you can move physically with your words whatever that is and that's where I am the conversation in the sense of what is worth protecting whom to whom are you lighting a beacon to like what is in this idea of realization through repetition if theater really is that weapon what are we shooting what are we or you know what is our weapon what are we yielding what is what is that repetition that is worth beyond beyond aesthetics beyond latinx beyond that as artists as theater makers as people and now in this room what do you think is is worth repeating as artists or is worth reinforcing embracing getting stronger defending I'm really curious about what Claudia just said about the the difference between Latin American theater and latinos in America in the US in particular and and is it still radical us getting together in this room to talk about who we are and what that means and I kind of think it is but as latinos are more and more assimilated in the US as our process starts to look a little bit like the irish or the italians in the US specifically what does that mean and what does it mean to make theater are we just going to see ourselves validated and remain a rightful seat in white theater and if we drop the latino theater are we then just white theater because that's what the word theater alone means right in the US so to me there is something worth protecting about our cultural heritage and seeing those stories on stage and having that conversation whether it be Puerto Rico, whether it be Colombia whether it be Peru but there's also the question of realizing that for me again really personally fucking trailer park names Iowa Ricardo like that is part of your roots as well what does it mean for you to be telling that story and what does it mean when you're fashionable when you're when you're that safe minority that people are going to bring in so that they can be diverse hi my name is Erlina Ortiz I am from Philadelphia sending power street theater company she her hers I really like your question of what is our weapon and that made me think of something that was rolling around in my mind recently which is this sense of theater is about changing the perspective giving people a chance to look at something from a new lens so that's I think maybe a weapon in a way so I just wanted to like get back to that cause I really like that question earlier we were talking about looking beyond our own stories and can we tell the stories of another culture and what is what are the other cultures so I am Latina, Latinx I am Dominican am I allowed to tell the story of a Cuban American or a Mexican American or a black American because I am about as white as Latino comes my brothers are about as black as they come they got a different set of genes than me even though we have the same parents so I have always had this very confused identity of like what am I really especially when my whole family is so much darker than I and they identify on the senses they click black and I click white why so are we allowed to tell as Latinos as a group is that really like Mexican American Argentinian American whatever are we all really the same or where are we allowed in and where are we not hi my name is Kiyong Park I am a member of the soul project and a playwright here in New York he, him, his I really want to go back to the comments made earlier about capitalism and the way capitalism affects identities of people of color I am from Chile where you know neoliberal capitalism was experimented first in the 70s and I feel from that history we have lots to learn about countries in Latin America that have experienced the atrocities of what we are witnessing happening today in the US I mean you would think you know this kind of history would be something we could have learned from no repeat it here now but actually it is the same kind of oppressive economic systems repeating themselves around the world and moving from the backyard experimental sort of Latin American economies and just moving themselves up to now you know affecting and really exploiting the US right now from that lens I feel like we are at a moment where we have a lot to teach actually to people here in the United States coming from countries that have experienced the kind of oppression that people are now beginning to really take action against and we have decades of experience and understanding how all of this is a very destructive social experiment that destroys societies communities families because we carry that trauma in our history and in our blood and we have seen how this has brought down island nations in the Caribbean before coming to cities like Detroit so this isn't a surprise to us this is the history that we know and carry in our bodies so why are we asking for permission to tell people what is going on when we come from a history of what is going on so I get very upset about needing to ask for validation for representation for the telling of our stories for the meaning of our histories and what they can provide to society today like we come from a place of wisdom for what people don't know now so I'm sorry like I you know I just don't feel like we need to give this power to the institutions to choose who is to tell our stories like we have the power and it is in us to really take action and wake people up yeah thank you so much for that and I totally want to continue that for whoever has this boiling I think it's very true I find that some of our white allies have almost turned to people from Latin America going oh you actually know what's going on we're like the big siblings for a moment so anyway continue so just one quick response what you were saying are we allowed yes we are I think that's the short the short answer but I understand the complexity of it and someone talked before about blending I can't remember who and that's always been a little bit of a sore spot with me puzzling I think the last thing to do is to blend because I think what's you know it's like the woven strands of the tapis I think you keep your integrity as you you know you mix you learn but I think the idea of blending or melting pot that has always been kind of an internal kind of heave for me and even the word American I have to chokes me every time since I was like 18 but I feel like I was voted down now this word is you accepting America see I can't I can't even say it because I think that's a co-opting right or part of the America so that's kind of always meant my vision and I've you know I've had two worlds Seattle and Peru so it's a constant traveling north to south so when we talk about Americanos I like that that unites us all but when we talk about Americans then that doesn't happen at all so anyway that's just kind of my thing so I think the most individual that we can tell our stories and retain ourselves Dominicanos or Dominicans Peruvians or Peruanos however we title ourselves I think the more individual we are the more universal but I think yeah you're allowed to write about other people you know you can write about because we are elbow to elbow in this world we are a country of immigrants and what I'm sorry I forget everybody's names the young woman who is sitting here talked about I think Latino theater or Latinx theater or theater that we do here in the United States is the dialogue with Latino Americano I think it's inclusive it should be all of it so I think and there's so many things we can learn definitely from all the different movements within Latin America and so my reason for joining the Latino theater comments was to make that bridge I really think that we can learn a lot from each other and although you know we're forever changed if we grew up here I think there's still so many bridges to be built so we can do a lot of back and forth in Spanish and bilingual and just bringing it back to the aesthetics so how do we do it so it's not just asking for permission from mainstream theater is this good now I don't think that's the conversation amazing technology I just want to speak to that can you introduce yourself my name is Christina Quintana I'm a playwright based in New York from New Orleans originally whatever you want to use is great I love it all I I all of this so much emotion I feel like what was your name who was just speaking Rose I was particularly moved by what she was saying because as someone who my parents are both Cuban born in Cuba and I am first generation American and so I have a lot of complication with the term American because I was raised to be American everything inside of my family was to be American to sort of assimilate to become American whatever that means in so many ways and yes and look at me but I was still still isolated in the way of I would never be I would never belong I would always be that Latino kid you know what I mean I think it's so complicated because what is the term American and I feel like everything that I care about and the work that I make is about all of us and being invisible because it is so much of who I am and of my own background but I think it's so complicated because there are so many of us that walk down the street and what are all of our identities I think intersectionality is so important it's like I was actually in a conversation with a dramaturg who said to me I don't really know what to do with you because you are Latino but you are also a lesbian so it's like really complicated and I was like that's really interesting and I think there's a lot of us that have had those conversations where somebody says to us I don't really know what box to put you in because you fit in more than one box and you don't have that a lot where it's like oh well what are you I don't know where to place you and so I think because of that it's all the more important that we recognize all of our identities together and I actually disagree because I think we are all fucking American and I think that that's what's so beautiful about us is that we all have all of these identities and that's what is exciting to me and that's what I think I'm excited for Blackjoy and I keep thinking about our joy and actually being in this room today and seeing all of those pieces and seeing Vicky Grace which was so beautiful that piece and just it gives me this sense of joy and I think that's a way that we're gonna fight back One comment before I vacate my seat here is that one of the strategies I'm thinking about first and foremost acknowledging sort of the privilege inherent in training in institutions and being in the belly of a beast of one right now, really aware of that but that how little the ancestry of Latin American theater and US Latino theater and how that the aesthetic, the history and aesthetics of those forms are not taught and so if you could go through the best Ivy League training and never know anything about a Latino playwright or a Latin American playwright so we, I think we have to and that's something many of us are educators here are fighting that good fight within the institutions because then you have actors who are trained and you have dramaturgs and directors who can understand those nuances and I really appreciate what Keong was saying because the theater of Latin America if you've read Diana Taylor's stages of conflict I think stage of conflict right which really looks at how Latin American theater has fought against censorship and has used theater as a weapon in these political situations that's where we can get inspiration I think that's where we need to look at those aesthetic choices and how do they fit with ours and I think that's what young artists today can really be finding inspiration from because from my own experience you're kind of like loose at trying to find yourself and auditioning with pieces that have nothing to do with you that you can't grip onto and now it's going back of like if only I had Josefina Lopez plays when I was they existed, I just didn't know they existed so as much as you can share these things with people we do have a history, we have to teach it in institutions, outside of institutions in the back yard, right and anywhere but that's what's valued people think that they know theater because they know European theater and that's valued as here but we are all there as well and so that's just the personal charge regardless of your title so that's sort of the what's worth protecting for me I protest I protest and I rebel against years and years as a scholar of having to write or feeling as though I am compelled to write about our identity and articles begin with the definition of Latinones or how do we use this word or how do we use that word in terms of identity I rebel against being pigeonholed in identity politics who are we identifying ourselves for or to, we don't need we know who we are do we need to continue with that colonizing discourse of explaining ourselves to who and what for if we talk about Latin American theater teatro latinoamericano whether it's in Mexico or in Argentina which is the one that I know the best at this point the subject is not about who they are and maybe my colleague from Buenos Aires can attest to this the subjects are many and they're about situations, they're about politics they're about social issues they're about the economy let's just stop talking about who we are and who we are in terms of others and do the work that we need to do we don't need permission and we don't need to continuously since the 1980s we have been discussing who we are what we call ourselves what we don't call ourselves let's just stop that thank you I want to invite to the conversation Juan Candido Carolina and Steve I'm sorry so I just want to make sure that we flow in this in the conversation with the themes that have already been whatever is percolating we have about 15 minutes to wrap up so let's try to put those beautiful bows and knots my name is Juan Francisco Villa I grew up here literally right around here I go by he him, his and off that note I guess what I'm going to throw on the table is for everyone here because I'd like to think that we all got along pretty well and are going to be supportive of each other but we are at a crossroads right now with a little bit history that I know from living in Chicago here and a little bit of time I was in LA of if going forward if we really are going to hold down to this class system that has happened there are there is an upper class, upper tier level of artists that have earned it and probably don't want to lose that status there's another tier of middle class I would say they've earned it and want to go up there and make more money that is a reality they want to get paid as artists and it's a level that's just starting out so then as much as we're all what we're sharing is every person here every institution here ready to lose money in order to support each other because that is I know it's on everyone's mind like you want to get paid for what you're doing so that is the question of as like if I were to ask people here who grew up in this neighborhood do you guys care that we're having this meeting here or is it just like another kind of conversation, that dialogue like we go into the neighborhoods and I'm just curious if we truly reflect of what's happening and if the more the higher up that we go are we going to lose that as much as we don't want to talk about identity and do want to talk about identity like are we filtering away the essence of who we are and I say that in a way that's a question that I'm struggling with because I think I'm right at that middle area after being in this art form or for the time that I've been in it's like I am very curious about going forward and I look at my mentors of seeing what have you done to get to where you're at and what can I do to the people who are coming up and if we're looking at the Puerto Rico, Colombia, even Cuba and the UK there's been a split on the liberal party and there's been a split in this country and I see it here in the Latino, Latinx, Latino Latin American community and I am immensely concerned that in 4 or 5 years from now we're here and we're having the same conversation and have not made progress I am very concerned I want to usually to happen Hello everybody My name is Stevie Glass I'm a filmmaker First thing I want to say is I've been filming other people's culture and talent for the better part of a decade and last night when I saw everybody jamming out together I was really thinking man it's really cool to be with you guys and like really doing something that's a little, you know, more to my heart so that's the first thing, praise but the second thing I'm realizing and I'm more of a behind the camera kind of person so deal with me I'm not really a public speaker like that but as I go around taking pictures of different conversations within this event one thing that I'm realizing is that identity is so important that's the common thread that goes throughout all of us and doing a lot of research on my own history trying to find my own identity I come to realize this country in general has a lot of demographics because since we're also a capitalist country we're always trying to find ways to draw money out of people so in doing that we classify people and I think the first thing that we need to understand is that it's not just a Latino problem it's a people problem Asians are dealing with the same problem Middle Eastern people are dealing with the same shit, you know what I mean so first of all I think it's a human problem I'm talking on this term of identity the way it was put to me because I come from a lineage of free masonry and outward thinking the way it was put to me is that this country was meant to be a melting pot but not for us anybody that has to be here and says they're American and doesn't have to hyphenate that's who it was meant for so if you're a Latino American that's a hyphenation this wasn't meant for you if you're a black American so on and so forth and the way it was put to me is that we are Latinos or whatever you want to call it are the real melting pot if you look at our culture we are the new race you look around this room we're racially ambiguous you can't be like oh you're one thing or you're the other thing we're everything you know what I mean everything you think we are we're not we are so I think the first thing is realizing that we're the future so I mean not to lose where we're going because if you don't know where you come from you don't know where you're going but I think the understanding of unity right now even though they put us in this box together originally I mean you're not Mexican if you're Mexican you're not whatever I think the first step is understanding that we're the new race we're the new thing we're everybody we are the world Michael Jackson let's frame these to the new voices as both your beautiful comments but also closing thoughts hi I'm Varin Ayala I grew up in Puerto Rico I've been here for many years I go by he, him, his and girl yeah why? and I just have a lot of thoughts swimming in my head so I'm going to try to distill them and so yes to you I forgot your name right whatever you want don't I think more important than asking am I allowed am I interested in it thinking about that made me think of how I thought of myself as a kid versus how I thought of myself as I was growing up and you know I grew up in Puerto Rico I didn't know what a minority was I never knew what a minority was until I was 17 I came to college in the states and somebody told me that I was one and it just sort of took me a while to process that I even thought I was white because in Puerto Rico I grew up to both have a real identity for being Puerto Rican but also I was taught that there was nothing more to aspire to than to being American and white so those two things lived in me at the same time and it's super fucked up but that's how I grew up and I also grew up trying to deny that I was gay so throw that in there and then I ended up just sort of accepting this is who I am and this is the and this is the right to do this or whatever it is as an artist and then I ended up in a play this year which the New York Times decided wasn't Latino enough so I think we we do these things and we evolve and then we accept who we are and we shine and then somebody else is always telling us no this is and I think it's important to break through those things and to sort of keep shining and keep believing that as a minority we are who we are and we just have to keep that light burning and it's hard but we need to keep doing it Candela I just have some random random thoughts Carmen Rivera is my wife she used to work in Wall Street with this racist asshole so made a lot of money they never questioned high identity she never had to say she was for a Rican because if she did a good job and gave her a bonus and she always says the only time I think about being Latino for a Rican whatever we call it next is doing theater doing this business you always got to identify yourself and she said if you making money somewhere as long as you make money you know people are close minded that's their problem you making money they pay you while here we always talking about identity I grew up in Puerto Rico I came here I don't think about it I don't sleep on it only when I'm around theater do I have to think about this shit I'm a human being I'm experiencing the the stars of my life I'm 61 now I'm looking at my life going to the other side I've discovered the Korean culture and I love it I have a nephew one quarter Korean and when you're 60 in the Korean culture you start your second life they say they're very optimistic the second half of your life begins at 60 because you become a mentor and when I became 60 biologically I became a mentor I've always been kind of you write what the fuck you want to write about I write about my experiences I have a play that Intox Produce Next and there's a Jewish character there's an African American character there's a Russian character there's a lot a Guatemalan character there's no Puerto Ricans in it and those are my experiences so nobody can tell me not to write it now you know white writers write what they want to write they never question they say I'm going to write this character and they usually mess it up they don't question it why are we questioning so those are things that um where the African Latinos here you know we don't have enough so where it's our representation here that's another thought I'm having and one that we haven't talked about why are we doing this why each of you went into this kind of business you know cause I hear different conversations I want to make a political statement I want to empower our people I want to make money you know like and a lot of you are going to say oh fuck this guy you know he wants to make money but when I was a young playwright this older playwright told me I said wow it's great she got an award they didn't give me any money I want money keep the award and when you get older um another thing is do we have an audience and I think that the problem we do theater and we're talking about in a vacuum there's an audience out there that we have to get seats bus in those seats and we don't think about that enough because you know you might take it to the streets or take it to the community center and that's I've done all of that um I also like getting my royalties when I got those opportunities so I don't think you should betray you know Carmen had a play that was going to get done in a big theater and it was about this Latina girl who was 12, whatever and they told her they gave her a mandate have a half sex half sex because Latina virgins at that age that's not realistic so um and Carmen came home and said you know I knew that the moment I put resistance to that it was over and the next day after she put resistance theaters were calling her over the country they all returned the scripts and these are the decisions we have to make that we don't never hear about that if we don't go along with that if we might get produced by a bigger theater a lot of times they give us mandates and the people that could sleep with it fine you could sleep with those mandates go on if you can't then you can't do it I think those are things in the business that we always grapple with anyway I have those are wonderful and I have to wrap up but I want to remind us all that the conversation doesn't end here this is just a start if you're interested in anything that any of our guests at the table have said go to them and ask them for a cafecito we have plenty of time for those cafeitos to be built around these conversations of I'm tired of identity politics I think they're important short time thank you for being patient and I'm sorry for the voices we didn't hear I do want to sort of wrap it up with our dessert in a way and I want to invite Sol Crespo where are you Sol because she has a beautiful ritual that she mentioned about a toast or lifting our thoughts today so I'm going to have handed over to her hi everyone I was just telling Daniel Hakus that I was like man there's so many Mexicans up in here and then he was like I saw calmate and I was like yeah it's alright I'm enough bodigua for like five people so it doesn't matter ok so this is really really really quick because we have to go it's just a toast a lifting of something that you either heard or something that you didn't say it could be one word I like when buding said I like when blah blah blah I want to lift up that thing about the ok so just popcorn it alright y all word thank you thank you so much so we are now at our lunch break if you did not sign up for a cafecito you don't know what that is you can go outside and ask them with a black lanyard not me cause I don't know what they are so we are going to be a part of the on the ground team we are going to have to ask you to leave this room as quickly as possible because we have to do a major change over so just please take all your stuff and go with that I appreciate you all and on behalf of all of us here who made this space thank you for participating