 You can have a solar panel and a battery. Of course, stable base load power. You can have a solar panel and a battery. Well, they try that. It works at best a light switch, a small fridge, a mobile phone charger, not a television or a conditioner or a cooker. So they go back to burning wood and dung and then coal. So we fail. So you have to have a solution for firm base load power and actually gas backing up renewables is how the US has done it, how the UK has done it, how Israel has done it. If you don't provide those solutions you will have more burning of coal. It's especially relevant when the rivers themselves are starting to dry up. When coal and gas provision base load is really an essential element of adapting to climate change as well. I'm optimistic in that there are new players on the scene, particularly look at the commitments the UAE's made in terms of financing and putting real numbers on the board and let's see if they get project developed. If it gets the project development gap but I'm optimistic about those and I'm optimistic about new technologies as well and that there are many who are trying to take a more nuanced decision making approach to investing in things that are green, let's say. Jake Levine from DFC and we had conversations where we were talking about the fact that for example a supply chain today, its status quo supply chain, let's just take how fuel gets to eastern Congo today. It's put on a ship in the Persian Gulf. It's taken across the ocean to Mombasa. It's offloaded onto trucks. It's driven the distance of New York to California. Again, that is a dirty supply chain. It's carbon intensive, there's all kinds of idling of trucks, etc. So maybe building a refinery in East Africa is actually cleaner because the fuel won't have to go all that way. But if we take gut reactions to deciding about what is green and what is not and don't have a kind of nuanced analysis, then we'll miss out on those opportunities with a dirty status quo because we don't want to face the criticism, the opinion of on surface saying, oh, we're doing a refinery and that could be greener than what is today but everyone would be like, no, a refinery is no way greener. You see, so somehow we need to have both this nuance and some courage in the face of rapid fire, you know, TikTok, Instagram world gut reaction and that's a very difficult thing to address so I don't envy you. That's very difficult. I'll take diplomacy. This has been such a fascinating discussion and I just wanted to ask the Assistant Secretary one more question before we wrap it up, sir. For those who don't know the Kremlin has confirmed in the last few hours that the Russian President, Vladimir Putin will be traveling to the UAE in Saudi Arabia as soon as tomorrow and Thursday. You are the former ambassador for Ukraine. Explain to me what you think the President's role and purpose of the visit is and ultimately when it comes to the European context here and the conversation around energy what do you see as Ukraine's future role in the European energy system? So I'm Vladimir Putin, I have no idea because this is a guy who has done more to accelerate energy transition in Europe than any politician in Brussels. But I think, you know, here we are a year and a half into the war and Russia's weaponization of its energy resources, it's clear Russia is never again going to be viewed as a reliable energy supplier and we have maintained unity transatlantic unity unity in our price cap coalition on the principle that we will deny Russia the fossil energy resources that it has used to prosecute this terrible war against the people of Ukraine. So that's that. And then on Ukraine itself it's been my priority here at COP I think I've got four different events my fifth will be tonight with the Atlantic Council focused on Ukraine deeply deeply inspiring to see how determined the Ukrainians themselves are to build a cleaner, greener modern European energy system even in the face of this war and I think the messages of support from the United States and I heard yesterday Commissioner Simpson today Commissioner, Vice President Sefkovich there's a very clear message Ukraine is going to be a member of the European Union Brussels and the members of the EU and the United States are going to work as hard as we can both to help Ukraine build the resilience it needs to defeat the brutal attacks on civilian energy infrastructure that the Kremlin has engaged in including as recently as the weekend before last but also to help Ukraine build the energy system that is fully aligned with the European Union and Ukraine's eventual EU membership. I will also say as we look to a post war period there's no reason why Ukraine should not be seen as a tremendous investment opportunity and as a country that will be a major energy supplier to the rest of the European Union. It has one of Europe's largest nuclear fleets it has significant wind and solar resources it has very strong human capital and it has demonstrated over the 18 months of this war just extraordinary fortitude and resilience and I say this as somebody who lived in the European Union as ambassador to Greece for six years the kind of energy and commitment to European principles that the Ukrainians have demonstrated is exactly what the EU needs going forward to be successful and to be the strong partner that the United States needs on this side of the Atlantic Ocean Assistant Secretary I appreciate you taking my question. Aubrey, Daniel, Majid thank you for your contributions today and ladies and gentlemen please again make them feel welcome and of course stay tuned we have much more ahead for you with a very special speaker up next Ladies and gentlemen please welcome to the stage Senior Advisor to U.S. Special Presidential Envoy for Climate John Kerry David Livingston Thank you very much ladies and gentlemen welcome to Dubai welcome to COP28 It's my pleasure to be with you here today for a first of a kind discussion on advancing international partnerships for fusion energy commercialization it's long been said that fusion energy is the canonical clean energy fantasy that's always, that has been 30 years away and always will be but I'm pleased to say that we can say with utmost confidence thanks to a fusion of public and private collaboration not only across multilateral partnerships but also driven by the engine of commercial ingenuity in the United States and in other countries around the world that 30 year envelope to achieve clean energy abundance is finally within reach of course no country no company can do this alone and it is for that reason that this promising clean energy base load resource must be developed in concert among like-minded partners that collaborate with one another from the start that build logically on the steps that have been taken by scientists, by labs and by companies and workshops in the years prior it is that sort of international approach to pulling together partnerships for the commercialization of fusion energy that we're here to discuss today and it is my pleasure to introduce the perfect person to lay out such a strategy my boss, Special Presidential Envoy for Climate Secretary John Kerry and obviously proving it took a Yale man to properly represent Harvard but I used to hear constantly because when I was in the Senate MIT would come to me and say we've got this idea, we're really trying to pursue this thing and I without knowing that much about it but went to work on it and got to know a lot about it visited many times, several times in Cambridge and Bob there he is, Bob thank you for a great visit at Commonwealth Fusion the other day and my great pal who helped me enormously in the negotiations with Iran, the Iran nuclear agreement Ernie Moniz the Secretary of Energy is here and he's taught me some things about this but I would hear as an energy source really it's going to be 30 years away I'd so help me go in 10 years later it's 30 years away but it happened to be out in California I was visiting Google X and trying to learn more about some of the technologies that are online and went up to the accelerator a little more laboratory and listened to the scientists they're talking excitedly about what had happened in this miniscule of seconds that they had created enough heat to actually prove the process could in fact work so I went out and saw Commonwealth the other day where there's a great deal of construction taking place so this is exciting but I can't tell you how many years away it is I'm not sure Bob or others can either yet but almost to the day 70 years ago President Eisenhower delivered an historic Adams for Peace speech I'm not mentioning that because you're in for an historic speech about Adams or Fushion vs. Fusion etc but I am here to say that that idea of urging nations to come together to harness the power of science for peaceful pursuits and benefit mankind, humankind generally clearly is more than a worthy goal it's the highest aspiration if you will, of diplomacy of foreign policy, of strategic interests and I thank the Atlantic Council, thank you Fred for the work you guys do always to bring the most relevant issues to the table at the critical times so today I'm privileged to be here without any pretension in terms of escalating the size of the charge that we're trying to issue today but I am here to try to again harness the power of fundamental physics and human ingenuity in response to a crisis and in this case I think everybody here understands because you're at COP 28 which is 27 cops too many you're here to help us figure out how we are really going to thread this needle the crisis could not be more clear and I'm not here to run through all of the evidence but when it's 70 degrees above normal in the Arctic during the summer this past summer and 100 degrees Fahrenheit above normal in the Antarctic and we're learning about this massive thousands of years of iceberg that has broken off because it was stuck in the mud for years but now it's melding away and so it moved and it's going out towards Georgia Island 66 million metric tons a day from just one fjord up in Greenland continue to shock the scientists and now we are hearing from the best scientists in the world that they're alarmed some say terrified others have all together said we are in uncharted territory and if you're a government official if you're in public life there is after all I think a precautionary principle about governance where when scientists are presenting you with facts and Mother Nature herself is presenting you with facts like 18 separate $1 billion climate events in the United States last year you ought to stop and really think about what's going on and then figure out how you're going to respond to it and that's what we're doing here fusion, energy certainly can excite the mind and it can excite the spirit of possibilities that exist in all of us as human beings and the evidence is now clear about how critical this choice is for us to try to move forward faster I personally believe based on what I've read and learned and talking with people like Ernie Moniz and others, Ernie was just telling me a moment ago about how a visit he made years ago when he didn't really believe completely in this possibility or this track but a visit and evidence of how far people had progressed convinced him and I'm sure he'll talk about it on the panel of the possibilities and he's now fully engaged in this quest so I believe based on friends I have, people I respect evidence that I've read that there is potential infusion to revolutionize our world and to change all of the options that are in front of us and provide the world with abundant and clean energy without the harmful emissions of traditional energy sources and while we've had a little debate in the last few days about whether the evidence shows or doesn't show of science science clearly tells us without any question whatsoever that the cause of this crisis is one of the simplest things we could try to figure out it's about math and physics telling us that it's emissions it's the way we burn fossil fuels without capturing the emissions and we have two options either capture the emissions or don't burn it that's really where we are and we've got to figure out what we're going to do at a critical pace fusion I believe can be a critical piece of our energy future obviously along with wind and solar and nuclear fission and geothermal and other forms of energy but the cadence of new and exciting fusion announcements has obviously increased over time new startups are exploring exciting new modalities for fusion energy there are a lot of different approaches that are in many of the different companies that have sprung up pursuing this some further along and others obviously but all of them begin to tell us that new computational tools and new materials help us realize and harness the energy of a burning plasma and of course the landmark announcement about ignition from the national laboratory last year so we are edging ever closer to a fusion powered reality and at the same time yes, significant scientific and engineering challenges exist yes and careful thought and thoughtful policy is going to be critical to be able to navigate this critical juncture the United States was proud to announce its bold decadal vision for commercial fusion energy last year built on a series of public and private sector partnerships to accelerate the research over the next decade towards a full demonstration of fusion energy but it is clear we cannot realize this grand ambition perhaps not at all but certainly not at the pace we need to doing it alone science is inherently international and scientists behave differently from a lot of other a lot of other folks who are engaged in these debates and fusion has actually benefited greatly from a strong tradition of international partnership the EDR the largest science infrastructure project in the world which brings together 35 nations and is critical to the effort I think everybody understands we've got to improve the way the international effort can happen and that's part of what will be talked about today as we lay out this road ahead for a international structure collaboration and knowledge shared are essential to beginning to accelerate what we're trying to do and they're vital as we collectively tackle the scientific and engineering challenges that lie ahead so building on a decadal vision I'm pleased to announce the U.S. International Engagement Plan for Fusion Energy Engagement Plan keywords this strategy identifies five areas of work that will help us to realize the promise of this technology they are R&D supply chain and marketplace regulation workforce and education and engagement and education folks and you'll hear in the panel you couldn't have a more distinguished panel I think it will help lay out for everybody a clear understanding of this roadmap of collaboration and of sharing and of building on all of our strengths this is a human challenge mankind challenge it is in fact as existential as it has been described and all of our countries are threatened and they are and all life is threatened and it is then we need to pull ourselves together with every strength we have and every capacity we have in order to pursue every option there is to get there as fast as we can Adams for Peace which by the way was delivered on I think December 8 so three days from now we're sort of bringing history back together here and it was it was really President Eisenhower at his best in terms of his vision he is after all the president who warned us about an industrial military industrial complex he had a vision in lots of ways and it was ultimately about progress and harmony setting aside boundaries in order to work as a united front together I am convinced with determination and with unity with the spirit of cooperation understanding the stakes we can act with determination and unity we can harness the remarkable power of Adams and and matter in order to build a clean energy future leaving a legacy of hope and sustainable and thriving world for generations to come I think that's why this auditorium is full I think that's why I see so many serious folks many of whom I know sitting here this is a good moment and we just need to make the most of it thank you all very very much thank you very much Mr. Secretary but I can now ask the panelists to come to the stage for a brief family photo thank you very much and now Secretary Moniz the floor and the mic is yours thank you it's working yes well first thanks to the Atlantic Council of course for hosting this but also thanks to David and of course John Kerry I do think we have seen a historic moment I believe the word fusion was pronounced from a stage at COP for the first time in in these 28 years and I think that I think that this COP I must say I believe has shown a pragmatism that is notable and I think one of the reflections of that is that we are discussing a much broader range of the technology options for example and certainly this panel discussing fusion fits into that category John Kerry I didn't expected it but he did mention that we kind of lived together for a long time in 2015 with the Iran negotiation but what you didn't say is that was the same year that we also worked very closely together on the road to COP 21 in Paris and I think I can safely say that neither one of us envisioned that we would see a decade of such innovation and such progress in fusion that would lead us to a COP 28th stage to discuss fusion he mentioned my own case I was frankly he said it was quite accurate I was personally a skeptic and then I visited company TAE technology and was blown away frankly at the progress that we've seen then I was blown away and saw a 20 Tesla magnet at MIT with Commonwealth etc and I think it's a very important datum that not well recognized broadly that we have seen the order of 5 billion dollars of private capital going into fusion in addition to public capital in many countries around the world but I think the 5 billion dollars of private capital to me says somebody must think this has got a good chance of working and I think that's what's really brought us all together together here so I think it's a terrific time to have this discussion I hope that what will be conveyed is a sense of there is real optimism there's not a guarantee yet but there is real optimism that we may see to make the prediction that in this decade there is a very high probability that certainly the conditions for sustained fusion will be demonstrated in the remainder of this decade then moving on of course towards hopefully a scaling and make no mistake about it you will hear about it I think from our panelists but with success this is truly a game changer if it assuming this all comes to pass so that's the context for this discussion no pressure on the panelists and I'd like to turn to this outstanding panel I'll say just a word about them as I call upon each I'm going to start with Bob Mumgard here to my right Bob is the CEO of Commonwealth Fusion Energy Systems one of the privately funded companies he's also on the board of the Fusion Association and with that Bob why don't you say a few words about your take on kind of the status of the fusion not just in the United States but in fact globally yeah so we've known that fusion is sort of a holy grail for energy for a really long time 100 years the very first time we realized how the stars worked we realized that reaction if we could actually use that reaction on Earth it would really change the game I mean it's a reaction that's unlimited it's a reaction that actually built every piece of us like every atom is done in a fusion reaction if we could do that on Earth it would be not just an industry it would be a transformation and so we've been working on it for a very long time and the science has gone a long way we've been working on this law and the sort of figures of merit that are about making that reaction happen and you know it sort of got talked about in the oil crisis and that led to a big step forward and then it kept going and it kept going and people sort of turned away from thinking about it talking about it