 Joining me on the sidelines of Australia 360 is Professor Jeffrey Wiseman, the Director of the Asia Pacific College of Diplomacy. Jeff just gave a re-stimulating discussion about Australia's relations with the United States over the past year, but made some important points about the role of diplomacy. I suppose, Jeff, this is a time when we look at developments around the world, things are looking pretty shaky, and especially on the Korean Peninsula, where there's a real debate going on about whether the time for diplomacy is now on the on the Korean Peninsula, or where other options potentially at the other end of the spectrum where the military force is going to be employed. What would be your views on this, and what can Australia do, if anything, to contribute to trying to hose down and calm down this situation? Well, thanks, Brendan. I think it is true that this is the hottest issue on the international agenda at the moment. It's the issue that causes most concern, I think. We have to make decisions about the use of force and the application of diplomacy. My own position is that we need to use force only as the last resort. And so the question is, have all of the diplomatic options been used so far? And I would say not yet. And the second part of your question was, well, what can Australia do? The key protagonists here are China, North Korea, South Korea, Russia and the United States. And Australia has good relations, good working relations with the United States, with China and with South Korea. And we should be using all of our diplomatic resources, contacts, networks to talk to them about the issue. And within that context, telling them what we think of the issue, that we have a preference for the, for exploiting all of the diplomatic resources at our disposal. But at the same time, bearing in mind that we are something of a middle power. And so there are natural limits to how much influence we will have. And we need to bear that in mind. But having said that, we should not hold back from doing anything. We should be, in fact, engaging with the protagonists in this crisis to see if, in fact, we can make a positive contribution. On that, that role as a middle power, Senator Wong and her address talked a lot about the past and the role that Australia has paid and the past, particularly during the period when Gareth Evans was Foreign Minister. Was there something about that period that was that was unique? Or do you think in terms of thinking back to that past, is there some of that could be revisited again in Australia's foreign policy today? Well, look, I think that does raise a very important question about the extent to which Australia self-identifies as a middle power or as something else. We are, I think, in terms of global influence, whether it's measured in terms of our strength of our armed forces, in terms of our economic power and our social power, if you like, I think it can be generally said without too much hesitation that we are something of a middle power. But that depends on the issue. We are very much of a middle power in relation to the South Pacific and Southeast Asia. The question is, are we a middle power in terms of our ability to influence events in Northeast Asia? And there, I think it becomes a bit more problematic. But having said that, you really do ask an important conceptual policy question, how do we identify ourselves? How do we position ourselves? And I think it is time to re-ennovate, if you like, that debate about whether or not we are a middle power or something less. I decline towards the form of view, and we should have a robust continuing discussion about that, because it does really affect the way we influence our thinking on whether or not we should do something or do nothing. Thanks very much for that, Professor Walsham. Great to have you join me on the sidelines of Australia 360 2017. Pleasure, Brandon.