 A big round of applause for Ivan. And I'm not mirroring. Excellent. Anyway, thank you for having me. My name is Ivan Pedratas. I work for Docker as an engineer. I work in something we call Docker Labs, which is the research and development part of Docker. And this is what happens when people ask me, what do I do? I basically study complexity theory and why it's so hard to do things in software in general. And in the box this morning, you'll have had stickers, but life happened. So I spend a few minutes uncrafting and cutting them. So it's there in my back. If you want them, it can give you a very important answer. So yeah, like how hard is for people to adopt Watson right now? That is a question we want to answer. And can we adopt it easily? Or it is going to be something hard with a lot of yaml. We know this, right? Like small and fast and secure, it can be used. I've been trying to find images that go well with use. But if you search anything in Google and if you're with used, then don't do it. Anyway, the old Docker thinks about build, ship, and run. Let's go and see what we can do with this, right? It's like if we can get the same patterns, the same tools, processes, and people doing things, then adoption is basically a given, right? It's easy. Should be easy. So build, what do we have with build? Well, we can build Watson more the old way, right? Like we can compile, we can use make files, we can use Docker files. We can use OCI images, right? Spin build, like, yeah, it seems that it's very similar to what we've been doing, creating artifacts. And yeah, it works in CI, right? Build, checked. What about shipping? Spin registry push, can we just do a spin push, please? It will be nice. But hey, it seems that we can do the same thing. Once you have the OCI image, if we package it, it was a module as an OCI image, then boom, magic happens. Because we can reuse all the stuff that we have for the registry, right? Or like, there's nothing new here. Good. Shipping, check. What about running? We can do a lot of things running. Like with Docker, we release the, it's experimental, but it kind of works. You can run, Docker run, it was a module, and you can use any compose, right? So you can do it. You can do other things like a spin up. And now, what we see with custom cake was some, you can run it in Kubernetes. I think I have a slide here. Like, the reality is that you can create a module, and you can run it easily in anywhere, your laptop and in the cluster, right? So A, excellent. We can run it, right? Like, this is a compose file where a module, there's a service here that is written in Wasm, right? Like, I can create the module in Wasm. I can create the PR for my team and my team, and they don't know that it's Wasm. Like, I know it is the issue with the runtimes yet. Like, little by little, we will fix all the issues, right? The thing that we support now for runtimes in Docker Desktop, but it will come, right? So then, what is the issue we have here? It's the old story of processes and tools and people, right? And we have seen that processes are good. Tools are the same. So it's up to us, people, to come out and adopt something like Wasm. There's a longer talk that a colleague of my, Georgie, did in Barcelona in Wasm, where basically he was an example. I tried to do a demo, but there was no time of sharing all these things. So I thought, OK, I'll put the link to the video. And ORAs, I really like ORAs, how you can utilize OCR images with ORAs, right? So, like, more links, and that's all. Thank you very much. Thank you, Iban. Do we have questions for Iban? Ready? Yes. Thank you, Sean, Adobe. On the build side of things, a lot of that is presuming that you've got a code base that already easily compiles into a .wasm module to start with. There's a lot of, you know, getting code into Wasm is hard. There's a lot of linking you have to do to your various dependencies. Is that something you're looking at as well as part of this build ship run experience? Yeah, so if you look at one of the issues that we have, if you want to have a docket image that you can compile and you can run in, like, in the video that I put, Georgie shows that you can run it in your machine, you can run it in a cluster, you can run it as .wasm. The issue is about how you can handle the docker files and assemble them to be able to compile. Compiling it, it's multi-architecture is tricky, but we will get there eventually. There are ways of doing it. It's not with the docker file. Normal docker file doesn't allow you to do conditional entry points, but there are other tricks that we have. Hello, I'm Angel from Waslaps at VMware. So thank you for the talk. I have a question regarding the people box that you placed there. Do you have already any piece of feedback that your community gave you after releasing docker.wasm support? So the feedback that we got was basically, the adoption was great. It's what I put in the compose and slide, that you have people who will adopt it and people who will not adopt it. But it's about creating an experience that works for everybody, like giving you access to be able to build and run wasm is one thing. But if I'm going to create friction to the rest of the team, then it's going to be a problem. So always think about friction. Like how much friction are you putting on someone? So it is something that we are very careful. Like right now, we could keep adding runtimes. I don't think that this is the right way of doing it. Like what is the model here? Would we have to support every single random? So everybody can, like it has to be something slightly different, right? And because it's like supporting all the runtimes, it might be good, but the reality is that it's creating a lot of burden on. Now you have to configure your machines properly. Otherwise, things are not going to work the way that explain it. And now we are in the works in main machine situation again. So it is always thinking about lower the friction to increase the adoption. More questions? So Larry Corvallo with Robust Cloud. Question for when you are approaching or talking to developers and they are already using Docker, are you telling them to migrate their current workloads to use Wasm in the future? Or are you saying for some new workloads, this would be the way to go? I think that there's place for everything. In the same way that when containers came out, people were saying, oh, BMs and blah, blah, blah, I think that you will find use case that was Wasm works very well. But there was something with people about, if you think about health checks, health checks is a really good example of something we could create in Wasm. And we could build ones and distribute and we don't have to require. There's like this kind of function of models that you need to have over and over. You can basically create them in Wasm and as you see in the composite sample, it's not about writing them, it's about using them. And the way that we share Docker files, it will be similar to the way that we will share Wasm models in the future. Like it's something that solves a functionality that's set, right? Because it's about sharing, it's about the adoption more about doing something that is cool, I think. I think we have one last question. So when everything is there, too, we can build, we can deploy and so on. So what would be the next best step to lower the friction to enable WebAssembly for all developers out there? So there's a lot of people who are not aware of this. Like one of the things that we've seen in Meetup, I don't think there's none on Meetup, is that people are not aware of WebAssembly yet, like how? Right, so it is these two parts of bringing a bit of education to the industry and helping them to release things fast and easily, right? But from the conceptual point of view of the Meetup, like you can build a Docker image and you can deploy in the Kubernetes really easily, you can build a WebAssembly and you can deploy in the class as well. From outside, the difference between a container WebAssembly model is basically very difficult to explain, right? Like people do not, like particularly if you use an OCI object to distribute it. Thank you very much.