 We're very happy to have Robert Thibault with us on the channel for his fifth year in a row here speaking at the KS Communication Congress Today's lecture Robert Thibault, you probably know him as a lawyer involved in the Snowden case His lecture today is called the continued erosion of international law and human rights under global pandemic and Yeah Let's hear it and we'll be here later for Q&A Good evening, I'd like to thank the computer KS Congress again for having me speak at the convention this year Even though due to the global pandemic It's by remote But as you may be aware I'm the lawyer for the Snowden refugees and also I'm introducing another one of my clients Abraham Hussein who is a refugee and journalist from Somalia and just to Inform anyone who's who's unaware at this stage the Snowden refugees were a group of refugees from South and Southeast Asia who provided shelter food and Compassionate humanity to Edward Snowden when he was in Hong Kong in 2013 when Mr. Snowden made the disclosures on the NSA's electronic mass surveillance program And also to provide an update on my role as a lawyer for the Snowden refugees I continue to act for them as a barrister in their Hong Kong cases and Within Canada I was granted special special authorization to act for the Snowden refugees who still have refugee claims with the Canadian government and Just briefly I have a slide up with the Snowden refugees sitting together in Hong Kong On the left side is Vanessa. She's from the Philippines her daughter's below her That's Kiana born in Hong Kong stateless and is still stateless today Beside Vanessa is a jeep the former soldier from Sri Lanka And beside him is the family of four Nadeeka Sapoon both from Sri Lanka and their two children Sutton D and Dina also born in Hong Kong stateless Of the seven Snowden refugees two of them actually succeeded in their cases in 2019 and they and this is a photo. There's a photo I have up of myself meeting with Vanessa and Kiana at Pearson International Airport in Toronto on March 24th 2019 Year ago I talked about the Decline in human rights around the globe Nothing has changed since a year ago and with the COVID-19 global pandemic things have just gotten a lot worse Governments have been empowered and boldened to Continue to attack Those who dissent who are critical of government around the world and What has made matters worse are the people's inability to go out and exercise their rights of freedom of expression association and assembly and protests because of COVID And for public public safety reasons and the government has used that to their advantage to Abuse civilians in society The media as well has been consumed in my view by the global pandemic as well as other significant global New stories such as the US elections and Donald Trump What this has done is it's taken The media away journalists away from other important human rights stories around the world so so those who Whose cases or their circumstances are not high profile a lot of these stories are not being reported anymore They're not being investigated anymore, which is adding to governments Being aware that they can continue to commit human rights violations around the world with impunity Now I have a client from origin from Somalia. He's a journalist and I'm introducing him to the public in this presentation because he fled persecution as a general journalist in Somalia and he found himself in Hong Kong for a period of time in an untenable situation and Had later found his way to the European Union to seek refugee status there and I'd like to go into that and basically Mr. Ibrahim Had covered new stories in Mogadishu and in an across Somalia and he was Targeted by both the government and al-Shabaab It was a situation that Jiki has and there's two quotes here, which I'll read out Which really encapsulate the circumstances on the ground Ibrahim has stated in the morning we hugged our family like we might never see them again because every day in Mogadishu Journalists may be killed in the crossfire or murdered by al-Shabaab And he also stated for a big story We would bring two or three cameramen to record the scene together in case one was wounded or shot As as a lawyer for for Ibrahim I've actually seen footage that they've recorded of you know people on the front lines They were with being shot dead and This is a horrific situation for any journalist to be in and to report in The situation for Ibrahim came to a crossroads in 2009 when he was kidnapped by al-Shabaab He'd been targeted by the government as well the police and also officers of the Ministry of Information and Culture It was al-Shabaab who grabbed him tortured him threatened him didn't kill him with a knife Gun to his head and demanded a ransom of 18,000 US which fortunately his family was able to Secure and after six days as a hostage. He was released Now Ibrahim had worked for University television in Somalia during two periods and He had fled Somalia for a period of time to try to find refuge in another part of Africa which didn't work And then tried again or he found himself in South Sudan and which was there's no durable solution there for him So in September 2013, he fled to Hong Kong And he sought asylum there. His thinking was that Hong Kong had a reputation of civility and rule of law but upon his arrival he You know, he realized that he'd been seriously mistaken Immediately he was arrested and detained at the Kalsupik Bay Immigration Center for short. We call that CIC and It's basically Hong Kong's version of a Gulag and There's a an award-winning human rights story by Olivia Chang from Hong Kong called the invisible wall I've provided the link on the slides. So you'd be able to to read an English version of that that story Now after being locked up for three months. He was released unrecognizance, which is It's provided with a paper that typically foreign criminals are provided with and on the outside. He faced destitution and racial discrimination and he was constantly racially profiled by the police stopped all the time threatened and Hong Kong society itself Just basically Ignored him. It's like it's as if he didn't exist he had no food or money for the five months after he had been released from detention and International Social Services Swiss organization with a branch in Hong Kong provides humanitarian assistance As a contractor for the Hong Kong Social Welfare Department, but still for five months. He was destitute. No food and no money and In 2013 my slide. There's an error. It says 2014 but in late 2013 Abraham showed up at my office with another one of his colleagues who had worked for him in Somalia and They had they were wearing bedroom slippers and use clothing and they they were starving and I immediately took up their cases with the UNHCR in Hong Kong and Subsequent to that That meeting in my office my wife took both of them down to Out of her own pocket to purchase shoes for them running shoes and also to buy them some food Now cheeky is what I would describe as a victim of constructive refaliment And I'm going to go into the lawn that in a few minutes But basically the Hong Kong government has a legal and policy framework That's designed to break down the mental health and physical health of asylum seekers basically through social isolation isolation and deprivation of sufficient humanitarian assistance so that they don't starve and cheeky described the situation a Few days ago looking back after the asylum-seeking community protested and occupied social welfare and international social services offices in 2014 Protesting not having enough food or rent money to survive. It felt like my mind was breaking. I felt I would die in Hong Kong Abraham's mental and physical health declined in Hong Kong to the point where it was a choice between not surviving in Hong Kong or You know trying to get to another country the South China Morning Post reported his situation as a journalist and Reporter stated An experience of the worst in humanity was not what Abraham Muhammad Hussein expected when he touched down in Hong Kong eight months ago Fresh from persecution in Africa now I mentioned constructive refaliment and this is a Framework and a strategy that's implemented by the Hong Kong government and Professors at Chinese University Have described it as follows given that a necessary consequence of the government's policies as social exclusion and destitution There are major concerns particularly for the mental health of refugees This is especially the case because refugees stranded in the territory faced in definite periods while claims are processed All the while plagued by uncertainty such such concerns not only raised the issues of Compatibility with the ICSCR and ICCPR but also placed the individual concerned at risk of returning to the source of danger That's offending the doctrine of constructive refaliment So Hong Kong's prohibited from returning anybody who's seeking asylum in Hong Kong Until after the cases are screened and rejected. Okay, but the Hong Kong government In parallel with you know with the that policy that they have to follow the law They have to follow the screen refugees or asylum seekers is they make their lives so miserable so difficult That these asylum seekers mental health deteriorates the point where they give up and they they would rather return home to die there Ibrahim left Hong Kong but under international law and Hong Kong's policies they sent him back to Somalia. He was quickly targeted again and Over a number of years he sought internal flight relocation alternatives within Somalia It didn't work and then he finally left Somalia and found his way to the European Union ending up in Greece the first camp he was put in is the Maria Mariah refugee camp which Ibrahim describes as a place of violence. There is violence on a daily basis. There was a lack of resources food the conditions were inhuman and degrading and Ibrahim it's himself and the people in his makeshift structure where they stayed were attacked on seven occasions during that time and The other thing that Ibrahim has stated is that The the police just stood by and watched they allowed that to happen. They acquiesced to the violence against other refugees and The plus side of Ibrahim making it to the European Union was there is a screening process that Proceeded quickly compared to Hong Kong and the second plus is that The screening system in the European Union countries Actually grants refugees refugees that status If they can make their case that they have a well-founded fear of persecution in Hong Kong the acceptance rate was zero and Hong Kong Not being a signatory to the UN convention relating to the status of refugees You know even if you succeeded you could not obtain refugee status in Hong Kong and you cannot resettle there and this is a picture of Ibrahim at the Mariah refugee camp There was a arson and a large fire at the camp which left him five days on the streets Outside the camp and then he would be sent to the Lesbos refugee camp thereafter Now with his acceptance as a refugee in June 2020 He was still stuck in the camp and here's another photo of Ibrahim when he went to the Lesbos camp there are no toilets no showers lack of resources and and in late 2020 the Greek government moved allowed Ibrahim to leave the camps and he's now living in a Greek community Supported only for a limited period out of a period of time by the government in January 2021 There's mistake on my slide. I have 2020 should be 2021 He'll have to fend for himself and I I've brought up Introduced Ibrahim here to everybody today Because he he's been in both Hong Kong and he's found his way to the European Union There are serious problems on both sides of the globe But he is grateful that The proper screening is apparently happening in the European Union and he's now safe In my view, he's an extraordinary person Extraordinary journalist and there are very few journalists like this on the planet with his commitment and willingness to have taken the risks Risking his life to report due reporting in Somalia Ibrahim would like to continue working as a journalist Again, he's just landing on his feet in in Greece right now and waiting for his formal documents All those formal documents to be issued, but he's looking to continue to work as a journalist now I'm going to go I'm going back to Hong Kong and And I'm going to be returning to the snow and refugees But I'd like to provide a quick update on what's happening in Hong Kong and the slide I have up here now Basically shows from 2014 to 2019 The rapid decline in human rights in Hong Kong and In particular Rendition enforced Disappearances ill treatment torture and even attempted extra judicial killings and from 2004 to 2019 You know Hong Kong has become Authoritarian in and to review what happened last year Carrie Lam the chief executive of Hong Kong had wanted to bring in an act into a law an extradition bill which would allow rendition of Individuals from Hong Kong into mainland China There would have been a formal legal mechanism to do that Hong Kong people and lawyers in Hong Kong are very well aware that hot that mainland China Judiciary is not independent. It's like any other government department of the executive It's policy and politically motivated in terms of how judges in mainland China Try criminal cases do process rights Are limited in in China in the Chinese criminal justice system and at times do not exist And I'm going to mention the case of Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig two Canadians who were detained into December 2018 Innocent Canadians have done nothing wrong arbitrarily arrested detained and this year earlier this year charged with crimes in mainland China and the mainland Chinese government has Effectively admitted that they've They're holding the two Canadians hostage as a bargaining chip to Pressure the Canadian government to to bring an end to the extradition proceedings against the Meng Wanzhou of the Huawei Chinese telecom group Out of significance so I'm mentioning this because the the two Michaels cases in in China highlight You know the deficiencies the clear deficiencies and shortcomings of the criminal justice system in China and Hong Kong people You know we're not prepared to accept that they would face Justice or accused of a crime and have to go through a criminal justice system in China mainland China So protests broke out people in the millions Wended the streets from June 19 2019 onward and It was in September 2019 that Carrie Lam the chief executive of Hong Kong announced that the extradition bill would be withdrawn So that was a great success now with COVID-19 human rights violations in Hong Kong have just continued on and they've become worse and the Hong Kong government recognizing that Millions of people would not be going out in the streets to protest Under COVID-19 because nobody you know everybody understood they is a public serious public health risk and people don't want to get sick So there were limited protests, but Hong Kong and Beijing calculated that You wouldn't have the millions of people on the streets and they introduced a bill The Beijing actually did this through their own legislature Enacting a constitutional provision under the new net under article 23 of the Hong Kong basic law, which is Hong Kong's constitution Basically bringing in new crimes against the state and I've put in the slide those crimes a secession subversion terrorism collusion with foreign forces That legislation is a constitutional provision. It's ambiguous. It's poorly written and it can be interpreted in a way because of its ambiguity Interpreted and used in an arbitrary way and used to violate the the rights of any any civilian in Hong Kong I'm going to go into the scope of this law If one is arrested if a person's arrested under the new national security law There's no presumption of bail anymore. The defendant actually has the burden of proof on them To seek bail Indefinite detention if bailes Not granted that person could be sitting in a remand in a jail for months or years before trial The trials are going to be held behind closed doors The judges are actually selected by the executive branch of government They select judges from the judiciary, but it's not the chief justice of the of the Hong Kong court court final appeal That choose selects the judges to be on that list that the government chooses In this law Anyone is accused of a national security fence under Hong Kong's basic law Can be renditioned to mainland China to face justice there? so what The Hong Kong authorities were not able to achieve in 2019 they've now Beijing has now Achieved so that anybody in Hong Kong who is accused of committing a national security crime Can be brought into mainland China and face justice there I'm extraterritorial criminality Anybody who writes something says something does something that is critical of the Hong Kong government If the Hong Kong authorities feel that this is an act of secession or subversion They can seek the extradition of that person. Let's say in Canada or in Germany or another country So this new national security law has a global reach okay consequence of this is countries in Europe including Germany The United States Canada New Zealand the UK Australia have all either suspended or terminated the extradition agreements Treaties that they have with Hong Kong the reason being is The new national security law is a de facto backdoor To for Beijing to extradite people from around the world very few countries have extradition treaties with mainland China because of the shortcomings in its criminal justice system and There I've put up a slide just listening a few countries that I've suspended treaties and Now within the Hong Kong legal Government itself three branches of government the executive branch legislative and judiciary It's quite clear that Beijing now has firm control over the executive branch of government carry them You know loyal to Beijing You know following through on directions from Beijing also in 2020 we saw officers from mainland China Now working in Hong Kong side-by-side with Hong Kong civil servants and and basically advising and directing the legislature a number of pro-democracy legislators were removed actually by Beijing and new legislation was Imposed by Beijing that anyone who? Is viewed as a risk to national security okay without trial Can be removed from the legislature There are supposed to be elections for the legislature in Earlier this year. They were counseled because of COVID And with the new new law imposed by Beijing there was a mass resignation by the pro-democracy legislators in Hong Kong so Effectively Beijing has taken control of Hong Kong's legislature the last or third branch of government the judiciary There's been a number of cases Where judges have brought in their political opinions? Most significantly a non-permanent judge of the Court of Final Appeal Australian Justice Spiegelman resigned in September this year From the Court of Final Appeal citing the new national security law Freedom of expression in Hong Kong is frozen freedom association assembly and mobility of severely diminished Hong Kong was ranked 18th in the world in terms of freedom of the press and journalism, but in 2020 It's it fell down to 80th place In the news right now has been the arrest of Jimmy Lai the founder of apodilly under the national security law Bail was denied, but he secured bail last week from the High Court the Department of Justice director of public prosecutions Has filed an appeal to that to the Court of Final Appeal to seek That the bail be revoked for mr. Lai There's also other examples of journalists like Choi Yook-Ling of RTHK What the Hong Kong authorities have been doing the last year is if they if they cannot find a basis to arrest an Individual journalist or activist or politician on under the new national security law. They use some draconian laws Or try to find some technicality to you know arrest somebody First something that's not even related to their work Simply trying to shut shut up or stop the media from speaking and writing their stories In 2017 there's been an exodus and en masse from Hong Kong. It's been quiet. It's been steady but that exodus accelerated in 2019 and and accelerated even more in 2020 with the new national security law and Talking to clients and colleagues the the shipping and freight companies in Hong Kong are overbooked They're that data indicates that there's large numbers of people leaving Hong Kong They do not see a future in Hong Kong Now Canada started accepting refugees earlier this year and in September Canada started granting refugee status of Hong Kong people who have been politically persecuted because of their participation in protests or they voiced their opinion song pay pay who the Chinese ambassador to Canada and Ottawa Spoke out and I'll quote what he said we strongly urge the Canadian side not to grant so-called political asylum to those violent criminals as Refugees because it is interference in China's domestic affairs and certainly it will embolden those violent criminals I was on 15th of October 2020 and and what is Interesting here is that China is actually a signatory to the UN convention relating to the status of refugees and The refugee convention forms part of China's constitution and part of that is to respect and recognize that other countries will screen Asylum seekers and grant them refugee status if they show well-founded fair persecution whether it's religion ethnicity race nationality political opinion or or other social group and what's also interesting is that in under the Refugee convention under article 1f and 33.2, but 1f in particular that if anybody had committed a serious violent offense Let's say in Hong Kong Even if they're granted recognizes a Refugee they would not be granted refugee status because of that violence So the Chinese ambassador to Hong Kong Apparently doesn't understand the law and doesn't understand or respect that Canada will be looking at Whether any asylum seekers have committed Offenses that would exclude them to exclude them from that protection over the last year We've seen legislators former legislators Members of political opposing political parties flee the jurisdiction. Okay What Hong Kong authorities in Beijing have been trying to do is to find bases or Whether they're found it well found founded or not On evidence but to arrest them put them into the Hong Kong criminal justice system and in applying for bail Typically a condition is they hand over their travel documents. So there are a lot of activists and politicians in Hong Kong who can't leave Because they don't have travel documents Beijing and Hong Kong clearly want to close the borders on anyone who's enough, you know Expresses dissent against the Hong Kong or Beijing governments But there are There have been legislators and political activists who have fled and I've put on a slide Ray Wong and Ellen Lee had fled in 2017 about that time and were granted refugee status in Germany Baguio Lung recently fled to the u.s. Simon Chang Hongklau, Sunny Cho, Ted Hoi, Nathan Law, Wayne Chan, Samuel Chu have all left Hong Kong and they're all seeking asylum political asylum in western europe or north america Now coming back to the Snowden refugees And what I'd like to do before going into the situation with one Snowden refugee In Hong Kong. I'm just going to give you a quick update on Vanessa and her daughter who are now resettled in Montreal They've had a hard time of it during the pandemic In Montreal and I've put up a photo from september 2020 which really shows you know really projects the feeling You know after almost a year of having to practice social distancing and ever other Safe practices so they don't get infected or infect others um A non-profit uh, just to update everybody a non-profit was set up in June 2020 um the previous private sponsors in in montreal had stopped providing support to Vanessa and Kiana in april 2020 which put This this single mom and her daughter in a terrible situation without any food or or rent and uh The last of the money That was provided by the private sponsor was provided in early may so as of june This family had nothing to survive on so um I contacted People I know in the montreal community and they stepped forward and they set up an in a non-profit organization called help venessa.com uh oliver stone academy award-winning director shalene woodley who started in the snowden film also an oliver stone film um stepped forward and advocated to In support and to ask for donations for venessa and her daughter and to date we've raised more than 50 000 canadian which um has now allows venessa and her daughter to remain safe and secure during the pandemic and also to continue their french language studies And this is a photo of them in november 2020 Just last month And this was christmas eve kiana's on the left venessa in the middle And the third person is mintum tran Who's the founder of the non-profit help venessa and kiana. I'd like to quickly mention him He's the son of a refugee family originally from vietnam after the war in 1975 the family resettled in montreal and he was born in montreal Uh, he's a pharmacist and executive director of the association of professionel de pharmacy From a sien salary de kebek He founded the non-profit uh help venessa and kiana and he's also founded a new non-profit called help a jeet.com i'm going to go into a jeet's situation This was 2017 i've put up a photo Of a jeet at the removal assessment section of the immigration department in calin bay and um, this was before A week before immigration rejected a jeet's solemn claims And just briefly uh, a jeet was injured in the civil war Protecting his fellow soldiers. He was denied medical assistance under the geneva convention by his The srilankan army Um And he He was put in an untenable situation where he was looking at losing his life. So he fled He was a military deserter. He was caught A few years later and tortured Uh, there was an attempt to execute him, but he managed to flee the military camp and He fled to to hong kong in 2003 leaving behind his wife and a newborn baby girl This is a i put up a photo of a jeet in 1993 so you can see You know the young man that he was and in hong kong Similar to ibrahim the somali journalist from 2003 onward a jeet has been subjected to systemic racism and discrimination by the hong kong government and its institutions He's been denied sufficient humanitarian assistance And i took on his uh case in 2012 and uh He's constantly been subjected to racial poro filing even Not showing up to conferences Law conferences that i was holding because the police had stopped him on the street as he was trying to get to my office um There's been discrimination by the You know by the police immigration against him and also there's been attacks by the hong kong government against myself With a view of removing me as his lawyer This is a photo of a jeet A couple years ago And uh, he's he's had a very difficult time in hong kong um For 17 years you know, he He was subjected. He's been subjected to discrimination as i've described And all of this has had an An enormously adverse impact on a jeet and that he's His his mental condition has has collapsed a number of times and he's he's just wanted to give up and He's been what i would describe as a victim of constructive refalement But fortunately we were able to convince him and uh, we we did have recently tried to get him some help He's been suffering from post traumatic stress disorder Since before he left Sri Lanka untreated and only recently we've been able to get him a little bit of help Um Going to his role with mr. Snowden in 2013 when mr. Snowden arrived Um, ajeets despite all the terrible things that have happened to him the persecution He's in discrimination. He suffered in Sri Lanka and hong kong ajeets stepped forward and and You know was more than willing to help mr. Snowden Shelter in 2013 and in 2016 Because of ajeets story coming into the public domain um The hong kong government targeted him because of his assistance to mr. Snowden And uh targeted myself and in 2018 ajeet was left without the support of the duty law service But myself and another lawyer found a solicitor willing to instruct us privately to continue his appeal now In parallel to all of this i advised ajeet to apply to canada for refugee status uh private sponsor was found in qbeck and ajeets refugee claims were filed in january 2017 and While all of this was happening the Sri Lankan police aware that ajeet is in hong kong sent police officers to hong kong in december 2016 looking for him um The hong kong police instead of investigating the Sri Lankan police Made a decision to investigate myself and my clients now ajeets Case was rejected by immigration in may 2017 and i filed his appeal in the torturing from the appeal board and this is A major update On ajeet's situation in hong kong In that his appeal was heard by an australian adjudicator Embarrassed or adam more into who took up who was the adjudicator in his case in 2017 heard his full appeal in june 2018 and No decision has been handed down in three and a half years From 2018 to november this year adam more had not handed down a decision and there is no explanation for that and then suddenly in november 2020 the torturing claim appeal board announced that uh Mr. Moore was no longer the adjudicator without giving any reason and Now a panel of three adjudicators would hear ajeets case and start that process all over again um This is uh This is a process that's been delayed And in my view abused by the security bureau and the torturing claim appeal board Uh, it is there's no rational basis why um The torturing claim appeal board did not hand down a decision on ajeets case years ago And uh, this is an example of how this part of the judiciary Uh, there's a lack of transparency and accountability and um The second Significant event is that one of the three adjudicators is an australian adjudicator names Fraser syme and he's one of the three on the new panel of three for ajeets appeal Mr. Syme was also the same adjudicator in the Appeal of the other snowed refugee family of sepulna deca and the two children And mr. Syme rejected their appeals And now the torturing claim appeal board has Found it proper to appoint mr. Syme who's already predetermined Uh decided refugee grounds For sepulna deca family that are the same grounds for ajeets case. So there's an adjudicator on the new tcab panel that Has already predetermined the appeal against ajeet at least on certain refugee grounds So there's an appearance of bias There's clearly a conflict of interest making matters worse is Uh judicial review leave application was filed in the high court in January 2019 Challenging Fraser symes rejection of sepulna deca family's refugee claims So the torturing claim appeal board has put in mr. symes knowing full well That his decision in on the exact refugee grounds Um for sepulna and also ajeet those common grounds may be overturned by the high court So it's quite clear with Years of delay inordinate delay and the removal or disappearance of adam mors the adjudicator and You know the constitution of a new Tribunal after so many years with Fraser syme on there that he's not receiving a fair process here fair hearing Now in terms of ajeet's mental health situation, uh the 2019 pro-democracy protests and the police crackdowns Ajeet saw firsthand how the police were acting arbitrarily and attacking innocent bystanders Uh protesters and this re traumatized ajeet. These are the same scenes in the same conduct of police in hong kong That he witnessed in Sri lanka when he was in Sri lanka the new national security law similar to the prevention of uh terrorism act in Sri lanka Is another factor which has to re traumatized ajeet and he's in fear for his life Making matters worse. There's an immigration amendment bill that's just been brought into the legislature and mind you the legislature has no opposition. It's Basically probaging controlled And then this new legislation immigration officers will now be able to carry guns and steel batons Uh when dealing with refugees, this is simply going to re traumatize My client and other refugees There's now powers to detain asylum seekers effectively indefinitely when they're in hong kong There's new provisions where The immigration officer will decide effectively if interpreters are needed and it'll be the immigration officer's view whether a person A person's screening interviews or appeal should be conducted without an interpreter um The other issue that is shocking in my view is after the first stage of immigration screening if the cases are rejected There are now powers for immigration officers to go to foreign consulates um to obtain To start the process of obtaining travel documents That should never happen until after All appeals um are exhausted So what's happening is that all these asylum seekers contrary to you and guidelines their identities are being exposed at the first stage To foreign governments that they fled from fled persecution from um Usually a hearing could not be held You know before 28 days in the torch climate billboard now the limit is seven days, which again Now How do I view all of all of these changes to the immigration legislation? It's just um A legislative and policy framework That is going to put more pressure on asylum seekers and it violates in my view the doctrine of uh, constructive refalement We're we've set up, uh mint and tran and matril has set up the Non-profit help agith.com and we're asking for donations agith needs support during this time He is waiting as with the other stone refugees the outcomes of their asylum cases in canada But pending that time agith needs help and we'd ask that uh If you can go to the website and donate, um, you know, no matter how big or small the donations are Um agith needs help. Thank you Hi everyone. My name is ibrahim Muhammad of sin I'm a journalist from Somalia Both the Somali government and al-shabab Targeted me. I had been kidnapped And told red the reason I was not killed is because my family and friend is bad ransom Money to spare my life I've lived to Hong Kong Only to be treated like a criminal and subjected to racism as I lived in a buffer to degraded And treated in humanly My life in hong kong was like a slow death I was sent back to Somalia and one is again had to run for my life And could not even see my family. I then found my way to europe leading in greece I found myself in two refugee kamis fighting again To survive the kamis were in hayuman and degrading many refugees were violently injured and killed inside the camp What suffered me was the refugee screening which proceeded repeatedly Hayumaritis in hong kong Do not exit for refugees But I was lucky to have a hayumaritis lawyer Masarabi tibo Without his help. I would not be here today Thank you very much guys I know about that teacher claim appeal in hong kong has been For three and a half years and I know that the educator for his appeal Has disappeared and there is no decision in his appeal after three and a half years I know that appeal board is now starting his appeal Start all over again Now with the three judge hearing his appeal. I think this is so unfair to ajit He has waiting for 17 years for his case to be decided after almost four years the appeal board forces him to step all over again It is the hong kong government causing me All this delay From my own experience in in the hong kong appeal board the judge was unfair and I feel traumatized For ajit To again have to go through another appeal will be a real trauma for him He will be forced to tell his teacher again And it will give him nightmare This is wtf international. You have just seen a recording by robot Through tibia is the lawyer of edwards known and he's now connected Oh mr tibio Welcome, um, thank you for having me here. Um, one thing I had failed to mention in the prerecorded video Discussion is that I two of my clients would have done short videos to introduce themselves to the public and so One thing I'd like to Just mentioned here As I mentioned at the end of the video is that ajit is still in hong kong one of the snowden refugees who who Protected mr snowden when he was in hong kong in 2013 and he does need help and One way you can help us by donations all right. Yeah, thanks for the We are taking questions for mr. Tibo you have uh several You in a during our live program. Um, some of you have asked us And if you go into the streaming window below that you've got several tabs one Chat window and if you click on that you can see the hashtag hashtag Which we'll monitor on mastodon and twitter and you can also join the Backend on the rsc so far. They haven't been any questions in The channel, but uh, mr. Tibo are there any other ways? Um And and watchers who have just seen what you've presented and the very personal messages by your Voices heard in order to to foster the cases of those people you you Yes, as I mentioned Primary way to support my clients In particular a jeep at this time Is to is to make donations. Uh, there's a website At jeep help help a jeep dot com Where you can make make donations various ways from credit card to bitcoin Um, the the other issue is is awareness and discussion. Um, a lot. There's a lot of talk about You know the role of whistleblowers, uh, particularly um in today's world and um But there's been less talk about the protection of whistleblowers and the snowden refugees did the extraordinary by stepping forward Making their decisions of conscience to provide shelter and food and um compassion to mr. Snowden when he was in hong kong in 2013 and um In in all the snowden refugees cases, uh, one of the grounds for refugee protection Is uh, the clients have a well-founded fear of persecution um Based on political opinion in that they made decisions to help mr. Snowden And um, so that forms a social group Those who help or protect whistleblowers And um, I think that you know, there needs to be more discussion about um, you know the importance of people in society who And uh, you know the courage that it takes to step forward and to help somebody Uh, particularly for high-profile cases It's uh, it's easy to help somebody or a group of people um when it's uh A popular person or or a popular cause, um, or if it's a low-profile profile cost But it's extremely difficult for individuals to step forward to help another um when even though the cause is The most just cause um, but it's unpopular So there are legal and moral and ethical issues And I think that should be part of the discussion that that everyone should be having Thank you for that. There's been a question on the jet which I need to rephrase because The question is how to build a global consciousness against And uh to to join up forces, uh, both from a lawyerly and scholarly groups that that believe more in direct action Uh, you'll you'll have to repeat that again. The signal came through a bit choppy Question on the jet, um, whether there's any any efforts to build a global current State oppression more or less and coordinate between teams that take a more Instead leave more in direct action Um I think what's happening is you're seeing, uh, this kind of action, uh with non-profits lawyers Through protests and you're seeing it, uh within communities within cities within whole jurisdictions But I I think what's happened with the covet situation Is You know that that's basically compelled everybody because of the public health issues You know I saw self isolating social distancing masks We've we've had to take a step back to think okay. How do we communicate now? How do we interact and exercise our fundamental rights and freedoms? So I think we're in a in a dangerous period where You know We're we're still struggling how to connect globally To cooperate and bring this kind of awareness about The second issue is to do that. You need to be able to get the message out through advocacy and activism Right now the the covid pandemic consumes the media reports I've been told about 75 or 85 percent of You know news coverage in a given media organization 75 to 85 percent At the same time Governments are using the cover of covid the global pandemic to suppress freedom of expression and To strip away fundamental rights and freedoms So I think the question is a great question and I think it's a matter of You know when doing this through encrypted means doing it where you have your privacy For global groups to consider how do we connect up together? What messages we want to get out? But then the real challenge will be getting the message out through To the public because of the current global pandemic Are there already To go ahead and prepare all the messaging to to come out of the pandemic if and when it is I As far like i'm not aware of of any Considered efforts globally. I mean there are some nonprofits around the world Who are trying to get you know messages out they're trying to get stakeholders with those affected in different jurisdictions, but but right now I'm not aware of of you know any organized considered effort to to try to have this sort of global connection and And being able to speak globally But also locally, you know informing the the global community what's going on I think where it's just um difficult time One of the best examples is hong kong with covet the covet Pandemic there there's been four waves and in the midst of the second wave of the pandemic in hong kong Beijing imposed the new national security law Which basically has stripped away? You know fundamental rights of freedom of expression Um, so I think we're just in a difficult time and it's going to be for different groups around the world to figure out how to communicate You know Hopefully the pandemic will come to an end in the end of this year or next year You know see where we go from there There's one more question from the chat and I think it's a softball pitch more or less Free autonomous press or free autonomous media as in decentralized probably Of getting the message out I uh, the the signal is a bit choppy. I've missed the middle of your question if you could repeat it Again, that would you say that a free and autonomous press autonomous media? Almost as in decentralized probably uncensored would be a cornerstone of getting the message out Absolutely, um, you know one one thing that I've talked about in past talks and um Is that two two things have happened uh are happening at this time and have been happening over the last decade and that is The journalism has you know Mainstream journalism is being eroded uh investigative journalists Are fewer and numbered today and journalism has become more centralized in major urban centers and in smaller cities towns rural areas There is no more journalism there at all in a lot of regions around the world and When those things happen, uh, you have poor behavior of local government In terms of policies Uh public expenditure and also abuses of human rights We we are really in desperate need of having independent Autonomous journalists and journalism At this time more than ever And uh, but at the same time You know journalists who have the capacity and capability to do investigative journalism You know that The problem with what's what's been happening the last five years 10 years is that The media that's centered in the major urban centers Um They're not picking up stories and speaking for the more vulnerable or those who are geographically outside of the main areas And that's a very dangerous thing. So yes, I agree. Uh, there should be autonomous media and um Uh, there should not be censoring on that media. So in fact, if you if you look at that, um, I mean Encrypted communication is well and and everybody should use it especially to to exchange information With journalists, but in the end for the for the general public Um Independent media that is not centralized in in some some few conglomerates Might even be more efficient to get the the message out to the broader masses, right? Absolutely, I think What needs to be done is you need more autonomous journalism and journalists in smaller cities Operating autonomously in the bigger cities Um to be able to pick up stories What what you're seeing right now with with Meet the mainstream media focusing on covid stories. Uh, for example, the u.s elections and donald trump Are that they're not picking up smaller stories. They're not picking up low profile stories anymore Um, and governments are taking advantage of that. They they know that they can act almost with impunity because they know that the smaller stories Where somebody in your community is, you know, fundamental rights are being violated by the government or local authority It's not going to get reported at this time Um, when the pandemic is over The situation will be the same. There's a lack of independent autonomous journalists Um, one of the big problems is this money Um You know a lot of the money that used to go into advertising for mainstream media Even local newspapers is now going online people are spending their time looking at You know online media that has nothing to do with their local communities Or they're even their countries um People are spending their time on youtube and facebook, uh tiktoks another example Where all the advertising is going um, so we we have a situation where enormous amounts of money are going to Only certain media some of the mainstream a lot of it to you know social entertainment online and infotainment and the money's disappearing from That money's disappearing and it's having an impact on two things. One is the funding of investigative journalism number two uh being able to find and support autonomous local media In smaller cities towns and rural areas And i've seen that Here in north america. Um, and I know the same things have been happening in in europe and also in, uh, australia new zealand Alrighty, so this means Subscribing to your local small town newspaper might be even As as well as a as a step in in joining the revolution as using encrypted messaging Absolutely, it's it's gotta it's gotta be a grassroots effort from the ground up Everybody can take their part. We do not have a stage. So, uh, you have to imagine the applause that you're getting via irc right now Thank you again so much for being with us over tibble Thank you