 Welcome back to the breakfast on Plot TV Africa. The Lagos state government plans to break away from the national grid Now it's part of a new electricity policy to make Lagos a 21st century state Let's talk more about power generation and distribution in Lagos with the Commissioner for energy and mineral resources in Lagos state Mr. O'Lallery O'Dooshote. Good morning. Thank you for joining us. Good morning and thank you for having me All right, so not many people know much about the plans of the Lagos state government to generate their own power Please tell us more about that and before you start just exactly where we regarding power in Lagos All right. Thank you So Lagos state government does not plan to generate power per se What Lagos state wants is for power generation in Lagos to be available and sufficient for all Lagosians So it's not so much power generation anyway, it's really just universal access to electricity That's what we want now to make Lagos state a 21st century as espoused by the administration of Mr. Babajide O'Lushala Somolu. We need to have 24 electricity in Lagos and it needs to be sufficient for the needs of industry as well as residents So like I said, where are we right now and what's the plan to get us to where Lagos wants us to go to? Well, the first stage in trying to plan a solution is to first of all identify and dimension what that solution is So to do that we've had consultation sessions. We've had we've had We've had interactions with the public sector. We've had interactions with the private sector We've had interactions with the populace of Lagos. We've also met with the industry as well The the practitioners today the discos the transmission company of Nigeria to try and understand what the bottlenecks are And what's stopping power from getting to Lagosians and what we find out that it's not so much the fact that there's no generation but that's the Distribution the metering and the transmission acts aspects are where the issues are today in Nigeria generates under four mega four Gigawatts of electricity of which Lagos state gets about 900 megawatts That's not enough for Lagosians because when you consider that we get 900 megawatts from the grid and a study from 2014 shows that we have 15 gigawatts of auto generation capacity then Lagos is Getting all the parts using mostly from off-grid. So what we want to do is encourage the when we want to encourage development of that sector to ensure that it's then more It's more it's more defined and it's more focused and it's it's better planned such that Lagosians can then Get the benefits of the cheaper electricity that we think we can encourage by by working with the sector Okay, talk a little bit more on you know, because you just mentioned nine nine hundred megawatts Is nine hundred megawatts going to be enough to give Lagosians 24 hour power If we fix the distribution and the metering and those basic infrastructure deficits or would you say that the Lagos Maybe needs to get up to 2,000 megawatts and if he truly wants to have 24 seven power Well is first question is 900 megawatts enough certainly not and 900 megawatts is what we get today even with the issues with the sector and and I can ask you that question You live in Lagos and so do you I live in Lagos as well I certainly don't have all the power that I want from the grid in my house. I have an Additional power plant of my own as I imagine that you do such that when there's an interruption in the supply I have to go and switch on my own IPP and a lot of Nigerians do that as well And what we're trying to do is encourage the growth of the sector by saying now Central planning is what is what we've had so far. So we all get power from the grid and we all expect that the power from gauge Should be sufficient. We know that it's not and rather than have a solution a secondary solution that then works for Lagos Everybody goes on the individual way to procure their own power generation. We don't think that's efficient We certainly don't enjoy any economies of skill from that and we're looking to re-plan the Lagos electricity market to say Here's a Lagos electricity market. We've already gone ahead and carried out We've already developed an integrated resource plan working with the USAID that has identified how we can improve that market Separate from the Nigerian the rest of the Nigerian market, but still connected to the rest of the Nigerian market So we're focusing on Lagos. I'm trying to solve the Lagos problems ourselves So in a paper I published a few months ago You said that the plan is for Lagos state to go ahead and ensure Transmission distribution functions should be owned Operated by the private sector, please tell us what the plan is for Lagos state government to work with the private sector So ensure that you know this power plans are fulfilled. I Think when you think about the capacity of the government to do things Are you compare that to the capacity of the private sector to do things as well? You find out that most of the capacity that exists is actually in the private sector and not in the Indian public sector. I'll give you an example. Lagos state's GDP is about a hundred and fifty three billion dollars Lagos state government's Budget is about three billion dollars So if you look at the capacity of the private sector to mobilize and the capacity of the government to mobilize There's no comparison. It's infinitely more. It's greater on the on the side of the power the private sector What we just need to do is to encourage them to mobilize these funds, right? To to serve the people of Lagos in a proper in a more coordinated way rather than where we all do it individually 26 million citizens in Lagos cannot be trying to do that on power certainly would not be cost-effective Okay, and then you know still focusing on generation. I've seen our people who will have made mention of the combatting waste To power and some of all of that Are these some of the things that legacy government is looking into and will the private sector be able to partner with the legacy government to You know see if those things are possible Oh certainly So one of the things that we're trying to do with the policies to encourage the private sector in fact It's a primary aim of the policies to encourage the private sector to work with the government to try and solve the power problems in Lagos So we're looking at everything from renewables I mean when you fly over Lagos and you look at the amount of rooftop rooftop space Available and you think we have available and you think how about if I cover all of this with solar? Would it solve the problem? I mean given the crushing prices of solar over the past few years We're setting to we're starting to think it's actually a viable alternative And we're saying if we can encourage the development of that and perhaps even make a statement that says that we'll encourage The improvement of the mix of renewables into the in into the generation sector in in Lagos state I mean if you look at the winds anyway, the winds are tilting towards renewables It's starting to be unfashionable to continue to burn fossil fuel for when it's bad for the environment And if you look at the 10-year psychological nature of Lagos, you start to think we should be focused on that too And the government is looking at that So I'm Regarding this topic about what Lagos is trying to do it is a lot of bull It's something that maybe other states should emulate, you know to boost the economic activity of the estate hand By extension the idea on all of that But some stakeholders say that this is a plan that would likely be scuttled by the federal governments Do you have such concerns? I don't I do not the federal government and the state government have been working together to try and improve the Lot of Nigerians and then certainly the federal government would not be keen to do anything that That that's inimical to the development or the progress of the state So sorry is this because of the party lines or? Not so much a long party lines Let me take you back and look at where we're coming from The the constitution of Nigeria is clear that distribution of electricity is in the purview of the state It is not mentioned anywhere in the exclusive list. However, when the power sector reform act Came into being the states were not in a position to pass laws or to do anything about electricity in their state Given the way the power sector had evolved at that time We had one monolithic structure which was then divided into 11 distribution companies It wasn't divided along state lines. Fortunately for Lagos We have two distribution companies all our own and Lagos data, as you know is is is better prepared to manage their affairs of Electricity than many other states, especially as they don't have dedicated distribution providers for themselves the constitution is clear on that the the distribution the the the Regulation of distribution is the purview of the state's governments and we intend to fully take advantage of that the federal government Recognizes that fact they've been very cooperative in the past They've made the laws when they thought we could not do it ourselves and when we start to talk to them about making it We fully expect that they will support us Is there a time frame with which you know the Lagos state government has and the current governor of Lagos state has With which, you know, these things can be achieved and also Where would you say the biggest challenge might lie in making these things happen? So the governor of Lagos state has I directed that we go ahead with this. He's very keen on it He's been very Focused on making Lagos a 21st century and he understands that electricity is is is one of the building blocks If you will I mean energy is extremely important if you have no energy you can't do anything whether it's Electrical energy or whether it's even physical energy. We understand that I Mean the the the lights have to come on for you to be able to see and do anything We want a 24 economy and everybody understands that for you to do that the street lights have to be on by by the end Of next month, we expect that all of the street lights in the major streets of Lagos will have been retrofit and will all be on So my next month all the street lights and ego should be working. That's one. What else should we be expecting? We would have passed a policy that will clarify The vision of Lagos as a company comes to electricity will be far ahead in the process of drafting a law That will enable us to be able to take off to create a Lagos electricity market I'm be able to manage it to to a favorable outcome for all of Lagosians and and by extension Nigeria because we think and If you look at it, we think Lagos state has been taking Steps in the electricity sector from the beginning. It was a Lagos state government that enabled the Enron barges to be able to Contribute 290 megawatts to the to the sector Lagos state that went ahead and commissioned five IPPs to take away the state facilities from the grid and enable more power to be Available on the grid for the rest of Lagos. It was a Lagos state government has certainly done many first Lagos state has introduced a number of transformers into communities where they don't have them We're currently in the process of taking some low-income communities out and I'm turning them into sexual centers of excellence Beacons if you will where we're going to ensure that there's near 24 power there by beefing up the infrastructure in the system So for we signed them an MOU with Mikaidza disco to take out some areas of Ali Mosho Right fully meter those areas fix the downstream Distribution infrastructure there and ensure that there's near constant power supply in those areas What we expect is that we'll be able to do that with a code disco in the near future as well before the end of This year we expect have signed a similar agreement with a code disco to take out some low-income areas and Fully meter those areas and ensure that we show that we can have 24 power in Lagos Is there a Funding challenge with some of all of this, you know, and you know because it might look You know like it's properly planned, but it also is a huge task To get the whole of Lagos properly So that's why we're starting with bite-sized pieces We'll take out a small area fix it and then demonstrate that it can happen If we take a low-income area and we ensure that they're able to get electricity and pay for it It would be easier for you to then expand that pilot to the rest of Lagos and that's what we see ourselves doing Okay, so you're saying funding is not a challenge Well, if you consider that we have and I'll use this example. It's actually very simple and I think I think you can flow with me in the past Let's look and I said a study right demonstrate a study showed that we had about 15 gigawatts of self-generation capacity in Lagos If you compare that to 900 megawatts from the grid, then it tells you that somebody's paying for that capacity that exists And I'll let me say something that might ruffle a few feathers here if we've imported 15 gigawatts of Auto-generation capacity into the country now if you have a generator You will probably tell me in your house that you paid cash for it You didn't buy it on a long lease if you then imagine that this 15 gigawatts were paid for in cash And then you compare all trying to do a central power plant and then asking for all sorts of federal guarantees because the market Structure is not able to to sustain it then you will understand what I'm talking about the capacity to pay for electricity already exists in The sector people are paying for it It's more expensive than the grid. So how much more the grid that's cheaper people will pay for it So funding would be would not be a problem in my opinion. Okay funding knocked out nor the challenge so far Oh, no, certainly there will be challenges It's it's when you talk to customers a lot of people and we believe that that's changing When you speak to people and they talk about the generators that they've bought in their houses They don't consider that cost they consider it a song cost when you then talk about paying for electricity from the grid They start to look at that and say oh this is starting to look expensive It's actually a lot cheaper and what we intend to do Down the road is to demonstrate how much cheaper the grid power is than what you self-generate will start to educate people a Bit more and and highlight it for them to realize because the truth is when you buy these generators You also have to think about replacing them after so many years a lot of times when you don't replace them your cost of maintenance start to go up and You you you don't see those because what you then look at is all grid power should be cheap Well, it it won't be available for very long if it's if it's cheaper than it should be because at some point Nobody will be able to subsidize it anymore when you say people will pay for it Who exactly and you know, what's what's the setup with that? So people are already paying for electricity today? Let's be honest. So when I say people will pay for it They'll pay for something that's cheap and that's available and that's what we intend to provide So you're saying that when this new Lagos state I mean electricity policy comes on Nigerian to pay less off electricity than what we already pay now on the average that would be yes now grid power Maybe slightly more expensive because what we expect is that it's going to be cost-reflective but if you compare that to the Generators that you're running and they are better past my neighbors that you see running. It's going to be a lot cheaper Okay, also share, you know with regards infrastructure deficit We've been able to pull this off, you know, because I know that the EKDC and the Kedger legend have also struggled Somehow somewhere with infrastructure There's also been a backlog with regards metering I've also spoken well with other Distribution companies who have also complained that you know, there's a lot of people who are tapping power here and there that aren't necessarily even paying for this Power they're not on the on the grid in any way, but they're receiving electricity So how much of a challenge has that also been with Lagos? It's it's a significant challenge and one that the discourse have expressed to us And what we've said is that we'll work with them to ensure that we curb all of those all of those acts Now if I'll give an example if they're 10 people in an area, right and five of them are metered Those five that are metered will get electricity and we'll pay for what they consume the five that aren't metered We'll get estimated bills. Now those estimated bills may not be equitably shared And there may also be another three people that are using electricity that are not known Those three people's bills will still be shared amongst the known customers of EcoDisco or Ikea disco Depending on where you are and that then leads to charges of unfairness to the disco The discos are doing their Honest bit, but the people don't see that because of the activities in the sector when everybody's fully metered It would then be clear if there's additional power being lost that there's some people who are connected and are not metered and It would be easier to focus on trying to find those people and Lego State will be working very hard with the discos We'll be working very closely with the discos to identify where those gaps and leakages are and then try and close them So with this new system you're showing Nigerians that are we know Power collapse or we know power failure or nothing like that 24 hours electricity all the way Well, I'm not assuring Nigerians I'm assuring Legosians that we will be working very hard to ensure that the grid in Lego State stable And that they cut my Lego's market is viable and fully supplied. Okay, so by next by next month streets all straight I should be powered. So what time night should we expect this, you know light-up Legos project? Well for for the light-up Legos, and I'm glad you brought that up We expect to have the policy in place by next month Mr. Governor is quite keen to have this going we expect to have a law in place by The first quarter of next year and we expect to start implementing that law by the end of next year Working of course with the federal agencies as well as the state distribution companies. Okay, and you know, is there a Well, was there hope, you know that if you know, you don't meet up by the time the current Lego State government is living office and there would be some continuity with this We fully expect that there will be continuity because at the end of the day, we all want the same thing I'm sitting in my house. I want to go home switch on the light and have it come on I want to go to my place of business switch on the light and have it come on And we think that any any Legos has always been a progressive state Legos will continue to be a progressive state We believe in continuity of ideas Legos master plan that was developed is the one we're still following We're currently renewing it for another 30 years and once we have the renewed master plan We expect that so signal succeeding and administrations will look at it and only improve it So Legos state if you if you if you know from 1999 has been on a continuously upward drive And and we have been consistent in our investment in infrastructure. So finally Where do you see Legos being in the next few years if you know everything happens as you as you plan regarding Well, it goes to be in terms of the economic viability success of local businesses SMEs and all of that So the vision of Lego state is to be Africa's model mega city to be Africa's model mega city you need the infrastructure to be Appropriate for a model mega city with also a central agenda of the Babaji Administration is the themes agenda which M stands for making Legos a 21st century So it's consistent with the vision of being Africa's model mega city. We expect The problems of water to be sorted. We expect the problems of of infrastructure power to be sorted We expect the problems of interconnectivity I traffic and transportation to be sorted We expect security and governance to be top-notch. So our vision for Legos is one of a 21st century mega city. I mean Well, I keep using the word mega city Lego state has actually grown to be a hyper city now because we now have more than 20 million people here So the idea is to then make Legos a welcoming a boat for people who are willing to reproductive and contribute to the economy Fantastic Um, I was well if you can in 10 seconds, you know, I show Legos shams that it's not going to have you know, I've seen a lot of people complain about the Legos light rail project And the promises that were made with that, but you know, it doesn't seem to have gone very far Can there be some assurance that this will go as planned? Oh certainly. Let me let me also say this Mr. Babaji is a committed is a committed governor He has assured that the light rail project as you have mentioned the Legos metro system I dare say the blue line and the red line will be operational by the end of next year now There's some things you can't lie about because they have a they have a they have a How do you call it? They have a cell by date. So they have an expiry date If I say that I'm going to do something by tomorrow if it's not happening by tomorrow, then you've seen that I've lied Mr. So Lu has said that the rail programs the first phase of the blue the blue line and the red line will be operational by December 2022 and I've seen the work that's going on in the background. It will happen. We'll light up Legos streets by the end of next month We will pass the policy by the end of next month We will have a low in place on electricity by the first quarter of next year We'll start implementing that by the end of next year So all of these things have dates that are firm and that's where committed to working with the federal government Mr. Ola Lerio Dushote, you have spoken fantastically well about the Legos state and our projects regarding Electricity, that's just wait and see just how great everything turned out because really that's that's the plan and that's the hope So we just spoke to the commissioner for energy and mineral resources here about pan up our generation in Legos It's we hope you enjoyed every beat of the conversation and all through and what we talked about Extentively the newspapers and the headlines making stories in the country as well as our top trending stories here for you If you missed out on any part of the conversation do follow us on all our social media platforms. It's at plus tv Africa And of course the same thing with our youtube channel plus to be Africa and the plus to be Africa lifestyle I am Osawi Albaon and I am Annetta Felix. Bye. Bye