 Today we're going to talk about Elon Musk. He did an interview with the BBC and a guy named James Clayton was the interviewer Greg, why don't you tell us about the videos we're gonna watch. Yeah, I'll be along a little long-winded on this one unusually first This guy's been diagnosed with Asperger's which today is not called Asperger's but his autism spectrum disorder in the DSM So we'll make sure we clear that up upfront We may say Asperger's just because we forget but there's an interesting thing He did a really good Saturday Night Live episode and you could see when he first started He would do the steep-link thing that I always tell you not to do and as soon as he got to where he was comfortable He moved his hands so we'll see some of that and figure out is that an adapter? Is it something else my favorite line on the Saturday Night Live piece is when people were giving him a hard time about Offending people he said I reinvented an electric car, and I'm sending humans to Mars Did you expect me to be a chilled dude? So sense of humor is there his illustrators and movement are typically awkward, you know Asperger's causes autism causes people to repeat moves sometimes We'll see a little bit of that and causes them not to make hard eye contact very often We're gonna cover this from the beginning to the end. That's important because you see Transitions in this interview and that's the way we do all of our videos so you can see what's going on and changing now I'll leave you with this why we're doing Elon Musk We usually do criminals and politicians well There's two comic book folks that are in movies that he could be one or the other of Tony Stark who is a benefactor to humans or Lex Luthor lots of money lots of technology What does he do with it? We're gonna look at his motivation as well as his body language and his behavior through this whole video I mean you mentioned outages that there have been Several and we've actually spoken to an engineer who works at Twitter and they said that the plumbing is broken here And it's on fire and there could be problems at any minute. Do you do you accept that? No, I mean they have been a few outages, but Not for very long and it's currently working fine So you don't you don't it doesn't keep you up at night that Twitter might go offline again At this point, I think we've got a pretty good handle on on what makes Twitter work and We're also doing it with Two data centers instead of three so we use right have three data centers We're shut down one of them. So we're actually two-thirds of the Roughly two-thirds of the prior compute capability But we've made so many improvements to the core algorithm in some case we improved the Core algorithm by 80% so the actual CPU usage or computer usage is dramatically less so But the results speak for themselves The system despite being at all-time highs of usage is fast. It's responsive It's more responsive than it was before the before the takeover And we've also added a long form tweets. We've added You can now post videos after two hours and soon videos of any length We we're rolling out our Subscriber programs so people can Content creators can actually make a living on Twitter by having some of their content behind a paywall and We're open source the algorithm so there's transparency about What tweets get shown what you know what what content gets shown versus not? I think you say like what are you really going to trust are you gonna trust? Some sort of black box algorithm from some other site or you're gonna trust the thing that you can actually see and understand Greg what do you got? Yeah, so we're gonna see the beginning of a baseline We always get told these people who are not neurotypical you can't read but we can because what we're doing is reading a Baseline for a person who isn't neurotypical and so this Asperger's or the spectrum Person is gonna have his own kind of baseline But so what so just chase and so do I and so does mark every time we look at a neurotypical person They're different So I want you to hear that and we first start Musk starts with his hands braced on his knees and he's putting pressure down That I associate with an adapter and discomfort in the beginning And he does something that I think is part of his Being on the spectrum. That's that quick little hair thing. He does every now and then a repetitive move I don't think it's an adapter. I think it's just part of what he does because I've seen him do it many times I don't think that this guy who is our friend James Clayton I think he's not necessarily truthful in a few cases on here when he says we talked to people who said this And the reason I say that's because watch him watch the way he starts to move and we'll look at his hands We'll look at him stammer and stutter and him change His cadence many times, but in this first one, let's just start paying attention to how he talks When musk is talking about I think I have a handle on how this works You see a little bit of distaste in his mouth So I think he's been through something we can't tell but he's showing some signs of distaste or a displeasure of that As you see his mouth and his person's lips Um, you know when he gets to the tech piece, I expect him to be very comfortable, but he isn't he trails off and he uses A different cadence his sentence structure changes And when he's getting to two instead of three talking about redundancy and tech centers So I don't know is that because he was it was uncomfortable for him But he surely shows him discomfort when he's explaining the tech Then the questioner gets anxious to say something if you want to watch if you don't know that he's anxious He touches his face several times He does one inhale breath just before he touches his nose the last time and that's him preparing to talk So he's anxious to say something and then we see this thing that he's going to do repeatedly And that's touches abdomen and as things heat up he's going to touch his abdomen more and we associate that hand going to our body To barriers, maybe it's something else in him, but I think that's what we're seeing chase. What do you got? Yeah, typically we'll see when somebody's stressed out in my experience I don't think there is any peer reviewed stuff on this, but that doesn't mean it's not real So I would see hand to soft body tissue and soft body part areas like hand to Throat or neck and hand to abdomen as meaning similar things and people do that during stress Right away here. Elon makes a single shoulder shrug during his comment about people making a living off of their content And we typically see we describe this as someone lacking confidence in what they're talking about This is most likely his viewpoint on maybe what a living is a living And not some deceptive statement about the app itself The reporter or interviewer here is a mess He's desperately exerting control over himself And that's a lot of the stuff that you're seeing with his movements is self control Or self regulation and it's not even consciously listening to what elan is saying like at all He's even nodding before a point comes out He's itching and scratching and these are common behaviors in somebody with excitement and stress alike This is where the phrase i'm itching to do x came from because we tend to do those behaviors The rigidity and this constant movement of his arm is also signaling some discomfort And you're going to see that again And i want you to be able to spot it if you're watching this and he's managing how he's being perceived His posture making sure that everything is kind of perfect And the entire clip this reporter is living in an area that i call behind the eyes This level of kind of self consciousness and anticipation is kind of overwhelming him and completely disconnecting him from any real connection here And he also starts nodding all the time before elan's even made a point And now it's kind of like an snl skip greg like you were saying a second ago And i'm not sure if this was a last minute thing where they had to Borrow chairs from a cheap motel or not But him having his phone out as a reference as it's just bizarre to me noticing that scott, what do you think? All right. Yeah, speaking of cheap motels I think that's where this interviewer stayed the night before and got cheap soap because he's scratching Everywhere you can scratch just about that you can do on on video. I mean scratching his face He's scratching his stomach. He's scratching his leg as we go through this. There are all kinds of places this guy's scratching So play pay attention to that I think quite often it might be his little adapters or signals to himself to say, okay here I've got to do this or i'm waiting or or Maybe he's adapting with him I really can't tell because there's so many of them going on in there, but they're the same ones every time Especially this that's like you guys were talking about us keeping on that that face and and his chest right there He's he's uh, his stomach or he's scratching on his stomach. I think this whole thing is really interesting because Elon pretty much is is illustrating and everything's really low. I think mark will probably talk about that They're really low and just above his knees So for somebody who's got as much confidence as he does I think that that's that's fairly important, you know And I think it's almost like a wind up to to what's coming I can't tell if he can tell what's coming or not But he he seems he seems like he's prepped for this. He seems really prepared for for what he ends up talking about And he any illustrates almost exclusively when he's talking about action or descriptive words. We quite often that's when we do it But in this case the only times he does it Pretty much when we go on it changes a little bit is when he's describing something or using Words that describe an action that talk about an action or doing something I think the arm stretch where he does where he does or like that I think that's more of a tick than anything else initially. I thought it was an adapter But I think it's it's might be a little habit. He's got But I but again, I think it was totally prepared for this thing And when when he says I think we've got a pretty good handle on what makes twitter work This is where things get a little bit iffy for him because that right arm goes from being being Relaxed and stuff. He goes to being braced. So he's getting ready to to Give his answer about that about what he thinks about twitter And I think we're seeing that internal dialogue go on there go on in there And he's guarding what he might really want to say. I don't think he's holding anything back but I think he's thinking about all the all the Problems he's had getting this thing up and running and learning it from where that I'm sure they just left it sitting there And said, okay, there you go. You take care of that smart guy And he did you know, so that's that's also kind of awesome And when chase is talking about that single shoulder shrug, I think there are two unless we're talking about the same one um, that's when his his Right hand and arm go from being rested and relaxed in that racing. That's when we see that little shoulder shrug as well I think it says maybe this isn't Is left that we're seeing do that. I can't remember if he was the right or left you were talking about so I'm I'm not sure That he that he's completely confident with the answer because I think he's got a lot of thinking going on So when he delivers, I think we're seeing that A teeny bit of insecurity about the problems he was having with twitter when they first got it up and running Those are probably he's probably revisiting those emotionally Um as he gives that answer. So I think that's how we're seeing the what would we might assume to be Not doubt but but not really being positive About what he's saying although I believe he's he's not lying or anything He's being forthright, but I think he's just a little bit. I don't want to say insecure I shouldn't say like he's probably not an insecure guy. I wouldn't think a little bit unsure about himself that point mark. What do you think? Yeah, so it was a good generalization His limbs tend to be quite relaxed You know the arms are relaxed down in what I would call the grotesque plane below the belt line You know until he does brace or he gets passionate in his arms come up to to the chest height You'll see that in in a few clips time Um, it's quite a busy baseline. There's a lot going on. There's a lot going on with both of them Watch out for that steepling watch out for when he moves from relaxed arms to bracing There's also a very interesting bent thumb action that goes on quite a lot I think that's about his thought process And not quite and that stress and tension of the thought process going into his thumb Maybe his neurotype As as well one last thing I'll just say about this is we go through it and we look at the debate That's going on as a good rule if you're going to a knife fight You should really take a knife and you probably want quite a sharp one and we're going to see somebody who has No tools at all showing up to this particular fight that evolves over time. So Watch out for that. We'll be talking about that as well. That's all I got on that one All right, if you don't know who we are with behavior panel And I'm scott rouse my body language expert and analyst and I train law enforcement in the military and interrogation and body language I created the number one online body language course body language tactics.com with greg heartley mark I'm marlburden. I'm an expert in human behavior and body language Help people all over the world to stand out win trust gain credibility every time they communicate including some of the leaders of the g7 chase chase Hey, I'm chase used to 20 years in the u.s. Military publish a number one best-selling book on behavior profiling influence and persuasion And I teach those things to everybody today. Just type my name in the app store to get training greg Greg heartley. I'm a former army interrogator interrogation instructor resistance interrogation instructor I've written 10 books on body language and behavior put together the number one body language tactics course with scott And that's been most of my time in business One of those tape replays You know headcount so I mean you mentioned outages there there have been Several and we've actually spoken to an engineer who works at twitter and they said that the plumbing Is broken here and it's on fire and there could be problems at any minute. Do you do you accept that? I mean they have been a few outages, but Not for very long And it's currently working fine So you don't you don't it doesn't keep you up at night that twitter might go offline again At this point, I think we've got a pretty good handle on on what makes Twitter work And we're also doing it with Two data centers instead of three so we used to right have three data centers We're shut down one of them. So we're actually two-thirds of the Roughly two-thirds the prior compute capability But we've made so many improvements to the core algorithm in some case we improved the Core algorithm by 80 percent. So the actual CPU usage or computer usage is dramatically less so But the results speak for themselves The system despite being at all-time highs of usage is fast. It's responsive. It's more responsive than it was before the before the takeover And we've also added a long form tweets. We've added You can now post videos after two hours and soon videos of any length We we're rolling out our subscriber programs so people can Content creators can actually make a living on on twitter by having some of their content behind a paywall And We open source the algorithm so there's transparency about What tweets get shown what you know what what content gets shown versus not Um, I think you say like what are you really going to trust? Are you going to trust Some sort of black box algorithm from some other site or you're going to trust the thing that you can actually see and understand So then you change your mind again and decided to buy it Well, did you do that? Did you do that? I had to Right. Did you do that because you thought that of course would make you do that? Yes right Yes, that is the reason Right, so you were still trying to get out of it and then you just were advised by lawyers. Look I have you get it. We're going to buy this. Yes Interesting so you Yeah, so you so you didn't you didn't actually want to purchase it even when you said you would go Well none of that price really no, I mean like like let's say like I think the analogy is pretty pretty close Look, let's say, you know, it's like you there's a warehouse full of goods They say the warehouse less than five percent of what's in the warehouse is broken Then you look at you walk into the warehouse to say actually it's 25 percent So you you know, you might still want to buy what's the in that warehouse, but Probably at a lower price Not buying the stuff that's broken So you didn't have an epiphany you just thought I'm gonna I'm gonna have to buy this. I might as well buy the bullet Yeah So then you walked in super complicated, right, right I'm not sure you've said that before oh fair enough um So then you you came into a queue a queue a whole bunch of court cases You said this in the bbc area, but it's a drug All right chase. What do you got? Elon's behavior in this clip Is his baseline and it's the same behavior you'll see on joe rogan It's the same behavior you'll see when he's hanging out with somebody doing a different interview He's commonly making these little adjustments with his shoulders In many cases and this is usually social discomfort when you see it Elon's already acknowledged publicly that he has asperger send roman some of the most common behaviors Associated with that are difficulty in social settings and repetitive behaviors like you're seeing here in this clip The reporter is genuinely trying to manage every movement of his body here to control his anxiety and his stress on camera And this is something that people tend to go through as well when they start learning body language and nonverbal communication skills I know I certainly did and there's a tendency to overanalyze everything including yourself And then over manage And this quickly becomes exhausting and I think most people find this transition point where they just finally let go and Take off the handcuffs of kind of worrying about the perceptions of so many people And people learning body language tend to think everyone else knows what they know Truth is 99 of people have nothing even resembling a clue about most of this stuff Greg what do you Yeah, this is really an interesting one and chase I like that you bring up that this is his baseline I think his baseline is fairly complex. I think like most folks who get this far in life He has a baseline for when something is pitched to him and he has to respond and by that I mean A provocation versus something has to think about And that baseline is his his steepling sitting there waiting and then he'll start to speak and use his hands and do all of that He's we're going to see later that when he is forced to think he has a very different baseline and it's very consistent So we're going to look for baselines when he's doing one thing versus doing the other all humans do it We all have different things and that's how we create a strung together baseline for the entire person Not simply little snippets. So we're going to see a snippet here snippet. They're most strung together. What's normal He there's another interesting thing When you are the 800 pound gorilla when you are the alpha other people emulate your behavior Think of trump and all the people doing this around trump There's something really weird about that when you happen to be non neurotypical and you do odd things You can even get to a point that other people are copying you because it's innate in us The four of us have body language that's similar because we're part of a culture And wherever the 800 pound gorilla 800 pound gorilla is folks are going to emulate his behavior So it gets really odd when it's a non neurotypical. I'd love to watch meetings with this guy We're going to see some some unique body languages. He goes through this Here he's in As he's starting to think he's doing normal kind of what we would consider normal Gesturing illustrating as he's bringing up facts about business He's lockstep in his cadence and his illustrators. Everything's aligned. We call that congruency And you've seen this in other interviews in the past with him But when he's uncomfortable, he'll jump up in the chair and do other things And I think that's part of what we're seeing with that shoulder shrug. That's repetitive motion I think it's related in this case to the autism rather than to the to the actual messages trying to send Because he's so free in his in his gesturing and his illustrating when he goes to no brainer Watch his hands. He does the same thing we all do. That's a no-brainer touches side of his head And then starts to joke about queuing the court cases. Let's watch this interviewer Now we know what his pitch tone and cadence are normally because he's pretty fluid here bump bump bump He's illustrating in front of himself. He's illustrating even with his finger He's illustrating and making his points. We can till he gets under stress and watch some of this change This will be a really good example of what baseline looks like in one person another and which one's feeling the most stress Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so very specific and important and it comes from this phrase of in business of never be a forced Seller well musk here is a forced buyer. He's being forced to buy this company by the courts And we see him brace himself go from relaxed to braced when he starts talking about having to buy Twitter being forced by the courts because you know, just it's just an absurd situation to be in Because it's the exact opposite of the forced Seller situation. It's the forced buyer situation in a business sense. It's an absurdity I think that's part. That's where the humor comes for him We'll talk we'll hear him later talk about the idea of absurdity and absurdity and humor is a way more kind of european idea Way more german way more dutch Kind of style And and potentially more neurotypical for him absurd humor. So I think that's it is his baseline But I think that's where he finds the humor the the opposites in there There's a I was watching an episode of ted ted lasso. It was I think the first episode of the second season There's somebody says in that he's not being rude. He's being dutch So understand different and and and Must comes from a dutch pennsylvania background english background as well So south african as well again links with with the dutch as well. So we're going to get an english dutch absurdist kind of world from him as well as his neurotype as well enjoying That kind of scene as well. So I think that's why we get this succession of laughter From him Now he spins that into it's not super complicated His opposition here clayton says, uh, but i'm not sure you've ever said that before and Must concedes on that fair enough. So I think in debate sense I would say james clayton actually kind of wins that little bit of that argument there by by By must conceding that he's never told anybody this before and therefore this is new information And I think we see the enjoyment in clayton of managing to score a point So here's what we need to understand is that he is there to try and score points He is there to try and have some kind of debate So you'd hope that he's got some tools at the ready to continue this debate Let's see whether he has let's see how he gets on Scott, what do you got on this one? All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna go a little bit against what you guys said about the uh, the laughing and stuff Because I think what happened there was when he was forced to buy it I think when they got in there and found out it was quote unquote broken To that extent I think he he probably knew that and he was going in and he got a better deal when they made him buy it Then he would if he just waltzed in and bought it So I think that's why he gets at those shits and giggles and that little Little goofy bump going on when when he talks about that and then he says yes, that's the reason Because I think I think that's his leak. I think by accident. He said yeah, that's the reason Because I think he got a better deal on it because we're talking about billions of dollars here I don't know. What was he what what he was going to buy it for in the first place And what did he end up buying it for do you guys know do you save any money? Was it cheaper? I think it was the 54 was the initial offer. I think and he paid 43. I think yeah Okay, so so maybe that was it so maybe you say, you know a few billion dollars By doing that. That's the way it looked to me. That's what I that's what I took from it And this and now we're seeing his illustrators. They're way up there. They're way up here This is where's the passion playing mark? This is the passion playing Around the chest Yeah, okay, then and this is the What play closure or disclosure bought up here ecstatic up here Okay, well, then we only see that one time when both his fingers come up They're almost eye level when he's when he's up in there. So I think he's he's fairly excited about this because I think he's I don't think he knows how to how to control that that giddiness He's got about the the better deal that he that he got on that at that point Um, and I think so his confidence cues or when he sits up straight He steeples his fingers even though they're not steepled the way we'd like for you to Then he laughs and his voice volume is really really strong. So he's really confident that voice volume gets strong However, we're going to see one where he's competent where his voice volume is lower It's still got a good tone to it. But the volume is fairly lower. But that's that's a few videos from now one of those tape replays So then you changed your mind again and decided to buy it Well, did you do that? Did you do that? I kind of had to Right. Did you do that because you thought that of course would make you do that? Yes Right Yes, that is the reason Right. So you were still trying to get out of it and then you just were advised by lawyers. Look, I have you get We're gonna buy this. Yes Interesting so you Yeah, so you so you didn't you didn't actually want to purchase it even when you said you were going Well none of that price really No, I mean like like let's say like I think the analogy is pretty pretty close. I'm going to say, you know It's like you there's a warehouse full of goods They say the warehouse less than 5% of what's in the warehouse is broken And then you look at you walk into the warehouse and say actually it's 25% So you you know, I still want to buy what's the in that warehouse, but Probably at a lower price Not buying the stuff that's broken So you said you didn't have an epiphany you just thought I'm gonna I'm gonna have to buy this. I might as well buy the bullet Yeah So then you were super complicated right right I'm not sure you've said that before. Oh fair enough. Um, so then you you came into a queue a queue a whole bunch of court cases You said this in the BBC Um, do you do you have any regrets on the way that some of the stuff would let go? Uh, I mean people were given, you know, three months of observance some cases more so, um But you know, we're like said the companies need to run on their own cognizance And uh It's it's not it's not so easy for me to sell stock as people might think I have to sell stock during certain periods I can't sell stock during other periods um So there's only there are only brief windows where I can sell tesla stock And then this is often taken as some lack of faith in tesla And in fact the the tesla stock sales caused the tesla stock to plummet Uh, which is not good. Do you think those two were connected? Well, the the the people couldn't couldn't partially difference between I'm selling tesla stock because I've lost faith in tesla Which I haven't or that it's desperately needed for twitter All right mark. What do you got? Yeah, so for me, there's a strong baseline change here and in that his hands come up to his chest Up to his mouth here up into passion up into closure around the mouth as he starts to talk about the difference between selling uh, uh tesla stock because because you're Concerned about it and needing to sell it being forced to sell it in order to fund Twitter again, I think a point is scored for Musk on this in saying that you know people can't pass the difference between the two So again, there's a there's a hit there on the intelligence of anybody who's saying the two things Are linked and again, I think that's why we get the the change in his non-verbal there He wants to make it very very clear that he understands How this business works at a at a much higher level more intricate level than most other people are thinking So clear uh difference there in in the baseline. I think it's pretty strong. Greg. What do you got? Greg and mark here's where I think this is part of his baseline I think what we're seeing is a deviation a change from response to provocation to internalizing And thoughtful answer with some concepts and some depth and if if you're arguing with this guy There's something going on right here that you can figure out how he would argue He throws out what's allowed in the argument as long as you don't fight back That's how he's going to close the argument because you can hear i'm giving you the list of reasons This is really common by the way in ceo's guys If you're dealing with a ceo and they say bam bam bam bam and you don't fight the facts before they get to the close You're going to play hell with that guy at the end. So what he's doing is classic I see it all the time when i'm dealing with people But this is the first time we see this introspective baseline mark I think it's a great deviation what he does when he's answering anything for stream I thought I think is what we're seeing his arms go across his torso gives him space His eyes drop now we could say his eyes are dropping too emotional because this is related to compassion about laying people We can't know that we can know because he's not neurotypical and i Eye contact is not typical for him. He breaks eye contact a lot So it could be a comfortable place could also be compassion He clearly knows that he has to be compassionate in what he says. He says look we gave him three months These are pretty standard business answers We see this all the time and look when you're laying off people it's always difficult and they always have to have an answer for And his baseline here I think we see plenty of of good stuff that says that his hands are back without adapter and steeple when he gets comfortable shoulders up in helplessness And then he puts his thumb to his chin all that stuff is he's navigating what to say And then he brings up all the rationale companies should stand alone I can't sell stock without consequences his eyes drop down to the right This shows understanding and that's all I see it could be emotion could be something else. Uh, scott, what do you got? All right I think this is a great example of of what he looks like when he's thinking while he's talking as he's structuring things Because he's he's structuring for understanding. Let's keep in mind. This is a rocket scientist talking to someone of Average intelligence. I would assume having watched this interview So I think he's structuring it to make it really plain but not just for that guy But for everyone watching because you know, he can he can His normal conversation is vernacular is going to be way up there. It's going to be easy. He's a really smart guy So I think that that's what he's taking so much time doing as he goes through and all those little breaks when he's talking His voice is back to his baseline So it's much softer. The volume is is downbitten. He's talking slower and again very clearly because he wants to make Sure what he's saying gets it gets across Just way he wants it across when we see that arm across his chest I don't think we're seeing burying in the classic sense Um, I think I think that's just what he does when he's thinking because he's does this a lot When I'm thinking I do this a lot too. Not that I'm like Elon Musk or smart like that guy But for some reason I always do that and I've said I'm here a thousand times I always do that he does something similar to that and a lot of people do something similar to that when they're thinking So as he's thinking during the conversation, that's what we'll see and he does it again a few times as well And then he has that almost a confirmation nod when he's finished with a statement Letting the that and the interviewer know that that's what he's gonna that he's finished or he's that's the statement He wants to make that's the completion of it So I think when we see that we're going to see it done really big a few times as we as we go on as we go on but understand that or That's my take on what we're seeing when he's nodding his head like that as like here it comes Unfinished and usually people will say that when they say I didn't do it. They use it as an illustrator I really don't think he's illustrating here. I think he's just confirming here like that with that nod Chase, what do you got? Yeah, I agree with y'all on everything and On top of all this Greg to your point Elon. I think does a masterful Job of redirecting here. He redirects the question from how people were let go To him selling stock in a matter of seconds and the reporter here dives right into the new topic without hesitation And Elon's exhibiting honest behavior in this clip His arm crossings more likely due to his feeling I think it potentially feeling insecure about his body than anything That somebody initially assumed is defensive or withholding. I don't think that's the case here As he crosses his arm across his body, his foot goes out And this is a reliable signal of confidence and comfort and the reporter is still more insecure in this clip There's one question that I came up with It's a screening tool that I thought of after having too much wine one night with mark bowden And as you're looking at people who are seated almost any situation Look them over and ask one filter question first to determine who's more comfortable in the situation and who's not And here's the one question Which human being would have a more difficult time standing up and running away? And the person who's least physically prepared to get up from their seat is the most comfortable in that situation And but how did I do all right? All right So the reporter here is ready to leap upward from his seat throughout this entire thing his legs are Like springboarded underneath tucked under the seat, but still ready to stand if he needs to So keep an eye on that as we move forward one of those tapery plays Um Do you do you have any regrets on the way that some of the staff would let go? Uh, I mean people were given, you know, three months of governance in cases more so, um But you know, we're like said the companies need to run on their own cognizance And uh It's it's not it's not so easy for me to sell stock as people might think I have to sell stock during certain periods I can't sell stock during other periods um So there's only there are only brief windows where I can sell tesla stock And then this is often taken as some lack of faith in tesla And in fact, the the tesla stock sales caused the tesla stock to plummet Uh, which is not good. Do you think those two were connected? Well, the the the people couldn't couldn't part the difference between I'm selling tesla stock because I've lost faith in tesla Which I haven't or that it's desperately needed for twitter um Okay, and then after that After um, you um let go of a lot of stuff Obviously, so twitter came slimmed down a lot and then he started making some more policy decisions One of those policy decisions was to bring donald trump back. He hasn't actually tweeted yet Right Do you expect him to come back at any point like have you have you spoken to him? I haven't spoke to him I don't know. He may or may not come back But the but the point is that twitter should be uh A town square that or that is uh gives uh equal voice to You know the the whole country and ideally the whole world. Um, it should not be a partisan politics Uh, you know and and the more of a partisan politics that are in the very far left of the spectrum San Francisco Berkeley politics normally is quite niche Um, but if it was twitter effectively acted as a megaphone for very niche Regional politics and and megaphone that to the world So if in order for something to serve as a digital town square it must uh You know So of all people from all political persuasions Provided it's legal. Um, so You know close to half the country uh voted for trump. I wasn't one of them. I voted for Biden um, but nonetheless Your free speech is meaningless unless you allow people Uh, you don't like to say things you don't like otherwise, it's irrelevant Um, and if at the point where you lose free speech, uh, it doesn't come back Okay, greg, where do you got Yeah, this is a good one for us to start seeing the interviewer feeling less than comfortable. He starts off though doing what he Normally has been doing. He's still illustrating in frame. He's pointing to illustrate And when we say illustrators, it's punctuating words thoughts phrases, whatever I always say punctuating your thoughts He's got a longer sentence structure and he's thinking a hard question But he's already starting to barrier a little bit with this phone as he gets to a more contentious question He'll raise that phone Wait until he gets called on the carpet and watch what he does with the phone and hang in there. He's going to um As you watch musk He's when he's bringing up these points about free speech and that he's steepling But he opens his hands and thumbs up in confidence as he answers all the importance of free speech He doesn't use his brow very much musk is not high brow use and what we've seen a lot of times With people on the spectrum is they don't engage your brow a lot But he when he talks about the whole country and the whole world There's passion and there's that request for approval with his brow and that's not because I'm lying That's because I need you to understand what I'm saying. He also does facial Illustrating when he does nonetheless. I don't know what I'd even call that he draws the sides of his mouth back and does An odd kind of face But we're starting now to see what makes him and we're seeing a very Unique to him illustrator but people around him probably adopt where trump does this with the finer point He's doing it on the top of his leg, which is just him doing the same thing. He's making his point um Yeah, it doesn't come back downward It doesn't come back when he's talking about freedom of speech if you lose it He's got a downward tone and he's telling and he leans in clearly to send his message As he's doing every one of these things. He's asking. Do you understand the elements? You'll listen to his voice a little because the elements of what he's doing go back to that last video He's starting to say these are admissible elements of the argument And he's one of those kind of people that the last thing you want to do is try to turn and change directions on him and Once you've agreed to those things because he's going to chase you and he's going to run you down When when my son was around he used to tell people that come to my house It's okay to run out of points and facts to defend yourself Just don't turn and run because it will get ugly if you turn and run And that's a very much a business approach when you run out of facts. You said, I don't know anymore That's all I got and when you've got a guy who has been this successful in business forget Whatever rocket science or whatever other thing he's doing scott This guy is a master of business of what he's done and how what he's accomplished more than anything else Why is it tony stark and lex luther thing? He's got more money than anybody Well, no, he doesn't he spend more of it But he had more money than anybody on earth and was at the top for a long time He's more of a business guy up. I think than a techie guy He just knows the right techie guys to bring in just my opinion And he's using a lot of that business acumen to get things done scott. What do you got? All right, I think this is a serious and prepared delivery because he's talking about what he thinks twitter is and what it should be From as a whole, you know from in my heart. This is what I think twitter is because he spent Billions buying this thing so it has to mean something to him. So I think that's why that the The words he is vernacular while you while explaining that's different than everything else we've heard it's very clean It's really it's things you've heard before it's almost like those It's not quite like a a pitch like a purpose statement, but it hints at that So I think he was trying not to say the purpose statement as he was saying while it was important That's why I think that sounds so prepared at the beginning there Then again, he starts steepling his hands and he's using that classic elan musk voice And the tones is back to his baseline his eye contact again is is Strong compared what we've seen so far has been kind of loose up to this point But now he's as he's telling what he thinks about twitter That's when we see it get strong because he's he's just delivering something that that he's already had Prepared up there and ready to go The interviewer has a pretty good clean tone and everything at this point And one thing that I noticed about is starting to bug me To death is he's all the time looking up into the lab before he starts talking Then he'll look over here or when he finishes talking and looks over here It just gets get on my last nerve. It's probably just some kind of a Little tiki has that he has to do maybe he's thinking he looks up that way But it seems he's always looking up here before he says something But that could be his his stop, you know, hang on a second because I want to say something You know getting to that moment and say something heavy or I'm it's my turn and I need to think a second I need you to see me looking away. So you won't say anything like sort of like an um That people do that Elon Musk does Not quite a bit, but he does that a few times in here Then he starts scratching his face is that adapter again? And I think I think that just must be part of his Little nervous baseline Because we see it so often mark. What do you got? Yeah, so I think Clayton tries to give an attack with the association with Trump and Give it in back or freeing his account Um must come back comes back with I haven't spoken to him He may or may not come back and we see a very subtle but pronounced postural bump In uh in musk. I think he is I don't think that's a positivity or optimism around Trump at all I think it's a positivity That he just scored a point with him because he said look I I can open up the gates to Trump, but I can't open up whether he Tweets or doesn't tweet and he hasn't tweeted. So, you know It's it's a point for him in terms of free speech and lets him into His town square message, which I think you're right Scott it's a prepared message. It's what he's come to deliver. I think it's clear from uh from his symmetrical gestures that start happening at that point and Exactly navel level truth plane there that this is the message he's come to or the first message that he's he's come to to give Um, he gives it really well. I think we get uh the bbc Clayton adapting again on his on his shirt So he really hasn't gone his way. So scores at this point. I'm saying it's it's three one two to musk I think I think Clayton's got one in but musk is is way ahead In the game now and and let's see how it progresses Chase what you got on this one Yeah, you'll cover you'll cover a lot of what I had here, but Yeah, this is probably something I'm gonna have to come up with the name for This reporter's just nodding his way through elan's answer to his questions and just waiting for his turn to talk Just wait, that's what the name of it is waiting for his turn to talk Yeah, there's no listening going on at all and maybe we could just call it fake listening And I think you could have stopped this This guy mid answer while musk was talking and asked the reporter what what did elan say? Just now I don't think he would know And what elan's referencing or when he's referencing these berkeley politics There's an interesting I accessing movement and I accessing is when we move our eyes around it in our head to access information And it's going down into his right which corresponds at about a hundred percent rate give or take to Emotional processing so when somebody looks down into the right, that's what's going on as an interesting side note If you drive a tesla You're looking down and right to access all the information about your vehicle all the time And that's where the designers place the information the screen in the car And if you have been studying behavior, you've taken a course or two of mine You'll know why this might be a deliberate effort To place the screen there on a tesla one of those tape replays um Okay, and then after that After um, you um, let go of a lot stuff Obviously, so twitter came slimmed down a lot and then he started making some more policy decisions One of those policy decisions was to bring donald trump back. He hasn't actually tweeted yet Right Do you expect him to come back at any point like have you have you spoken to him? I haven't spoke to him I don't know. He may or may not come back But the point is that twitter should be uh a town square that or that is gives a equal voice to You know the the whole country and ideally the whole world. It should not be a partisan politics You know and The more of a partisan politics that are in the very far left of the spectrum san francisco Berkeley politics normally is quite niche But if twitter effectively acted as a megaphone for very niche regional politics and and megaphone that to the world So if in order of something to serve as a digital town square it must uh You know So of all people from all political persuasions provided it's legal so You know close to half the country Voted for trump. I wasn't one of them. I voted for Biden But nonetheless Your free speech is meaningless unless you allow people You don't like to say things you don't like otherwise. It's irrelevant And if at the point where should you lose free speech? It doesn't come back I think the issue Some people have is that a lot of people were brought back. I mean some people were brought back you Would previously banned for spreading things like Q and on conspiracies you have people like andrew tape who were brought back who were previously Banned for things like hate speech. Do you think you prioritize freedom of speech over Misinformation and hate speech Well, you know, who's to say that something something is misinformation Who is the arbiter of that? Is it the bvc? Yeah, you're literally asking me. Yes. Well, no, you would be you are the arbiter on twitter because you own twitter Yes, i'm saying who is to say that one person's misinformation is another person's information Um at the point of which you say that there is uh, this is misinformation Like who is going to decide this information can be dangerous that it can cause real world harms that it can Potentially cause um, yes. So the point of time is that the bbc itself has at times published things that are false Do you agree that that has occurred? I I'm quite sure the bbc have Said things before that turn out to not be true. It's whatever it is hundred year history. I'm quite sure Even if you aspire to be accurate, there are times when it will you will not be I think in the grand scheme of things bbc does just aspire to be accurate But you accept there has to be a line in terms of hate speech. I mean not you're not looking at total 100% unrestricted speech um, there's Well, I mean I generally i'm of the pin in that if If uh, if if if the people of a given country are against a certain type of speech They should talk to their elected representatives and pass a law to prevent it So for example, you you cannot advocate murdering someone That's illegal In the united states and everywhere really I suspect so So there are limits to speech All right mark, what do you got? Yeah, so this is great. We get a lot of wobblehead action from clayton here as uh, as as must comes in with with an idea that of course You know the bbc within their history must have got things wrong Um, of course, it's a hard one. It's a hard one not to concede to and clayton wasn't expecting it and you see him almost kind of knocked Uh senseless uh by this one We get the adaption again to the shirt the hand comes in to the shirt Again nervous about that Uh, but he wants to fight back so we see the hand go go down and turn in And place on his knee so his elbow will be out very uncomfortable Physician to put yourself in to turn your hand In to support yourself and it's simply because he's going to be able to do that I'm bigger than you thought I was gesture and increase the size of him So clayton is is very much on for a bit of a fight here But in in in debate terms I think That musk is a little bit smarter because he invokes democratic lawmaking basically goes do you think do you think governments should make laws Should be in charge of making the laws. Well, that's a hard one not to concede to as well Um, so clayton's getting upset for sure trying to make himself look bigger I think I think musk is getting a little bit more energized now as well. You see his fingers spread out. You see you see some Some digital flexion as chase would say on his other hand There we see a move position as well before he invokes the democratic idea Uh, it's another win for musk. I would say we're at five one now It's going to be hard for clayton to pull back out of this one. Let's go. What do you go? All right, this is where everything changes like a big time because elon gets really still And his voice lowers And his eyes widen up a little bit and his nostrils flare a little bit And he's answering that second question his volume comes up some just a little bit not a whole lot He's got that steepling, but it goes away And then when he's asking when he says do you believe that has occurred He has those big nods and he has that long pause right there because he's putting that guy on notice That you you stepped in here, man Because he was ready for this, you know, how couldn't he be? At this point. So and then he's turned and he's turned the interview around on this guy on that interviewer And he should never have let him do that. He shouldn't put himself in that spot And I don't think he's got he may be the most experienced interview in the world. I don't know But I don't think an experienced interviewer would let it get to that. I don't think gale king would let that happen So I think getting him cornered like that Man Since we box people in when we're talking to them in a conversation to try to get them to tell them something Tell us something That they did they don't want to talk about it didn't want to do That's what i'm seeing there. He didn't I don't know if he if he Had a tactic to go about doing that because i'm really not seeing seeing the way he went about doing that from our perspective As far as interrogation goes but man, he got him right if he was in the box He got him cornered good right there and he couldn't get out of it so And then he goes back into his thinking and talking mode again He gets that arm up and and and you see him thinking as he's talking instruction and he delivers that Again while he's illustrating with it with the one hand and I think he's still thinking at that point because I think he gets quiet because he's trying to hold back that that initial energy or that initial pump of Of adrenaline when he's like, oh, I got him now and i'm going in So I think that's why he quietens down sort of to stay calm Chase what do you got? Yeah, this was a great one to watch today When elon, here's the topic of the question just the topic comes up You can see him do several things that go back to that single question from earlier How ready is this person to stand up from where they're at in the seated position? His foot pulls back Making his feet into a perfect position to stand and kind of step forward His posture becomes erect and upright his breathing rate increases and it does so into his chest And the chest breathing is more stressful than abdominal breathing if someone's completely and fully relaxed You'll see the abdomen the abdomen rising and falling instead of the chest and the reporter here Seems to have questions that he thinks are more important than any dialogue at all And there's less fake listening here, but only slightly less That elon goes through a series of stress and comfort in this one clip that you can see when it plays back And what's going to be interesting when you watch this clip again Is seeing the moments that this stress appears and his comfort starts to return And I think that's really telling That's all I got and greg what do you got? Hey, so when we talk about interrogation We talk about talking to the person you want to bring to the show the person you want to get Started talking. So for example, if I were going to talk to Oprah Winfrey, I wouldn't talk to the mogul I would talk to the poor kid who grew up in Mississippi And you try to find ways to talk to that What he is what this questioner mr. Clayton has not done well is to identify something we're talking about clearly here There are two stances that elon musk has responsive and contemplating And you don't want him in contemplating we've seen that he's going to read you the riot act give you some elements of the argument and then close it But this guy doesn't see that he can't see it He's too busy chase to your point going to the next question and thinking he's scored one point to pay attention Or he would have known that he was about to get into a bind right here and step in a bear trap He starts off meaning the reporter starts off on attack. Look at his fingers and his thumbs They're out now. They're not closed. We usually associate that with confidence He's in a downtone as he's taking this these attacks. He's got a rhythmic cadence We'll see that change in a video or two and we'll see him hardly able to finish the sentence There's arrogance as his chin thrust and he touches his abdomen Then we see musk Get comfortable and that's when everything changes that rapid adapter to his hairline is likely just associated with the autism But it may be an indicator something's about to change it may be related to how his brain works Don't know but when he does that we see something change And the minute he turns back on and he starts to go after him and he contemplates and he starts taking this guy's Argument apart and starts taking his story apart. You see the guy go right back to his abdomen with that hand as a barrier And this is really clear that when he goes to this point and he starts to touch his chin He's in a different mode. He is thinking about how to dismantle your argument He's thinking about how to win that contest And he doesn't have to be a classic great debater as long as he gives you facts You agree with those facts and then at the end there's nothing left. That's great negotiation You don't have to be a great debater to be a great negotiator and then he returns to that steeple It's powerful. You can see it and if this guy could see it He probably would not get in the bear trap. He's about to get into one of those tape replays I think the issue some people have is that a lot of people were brought back I mean some people were brought back who were previously banned for spreading things like Q and on conspiracies you have people like andrew tape who were brought back who were previously Banned for things like hate speech. Do you think you prioritize freedom of speech over? Misinformation and hate speech Well, you know who's to say that something is misinformation Who's the arbiter of that? Is it the bvc? You're literally asking me. Yes. Well, no, you are the arbiter on twitter because you own twitter Yes, I'm saying who is to say that one person's misinformation is another person's information Um, the point at which you you say that there is uh, this is misinformation like who is going to decide This information can be dangerous that it can cause real world harms that it can potentially cause. Um Yeah, so the point for me is that the bvc itself has at times published things that are false Do you agree that that has occurred? I I I'm quite sure the bvc have Said things before that turn out to not be true. It is whatever it is hundred year history. I'm quite sure. Yes Even if you aspire to be accurate, there are times when it will you you will not be I think in the grand scheme of things bvc does just aspire to be accurate But you accept there has to be a line in terms of hate speech. I mean not you're not looking at total 100% unrestricted speech Um, there's well, I mean I generally I'm of the pin in that if If if you if if the people of a given country are against a certain type of speech They should talk to their elected representatives and pass a law to prevent it So for example, you you cannot advocate murdering someone. That's illegal In the united states everywhere really. This is fact. Um, so Uh, so there are limits to speech Um, I mean I would only just add that, you know, we have spoken to people who who have been sacked that Used to be in content moderation and and we've spoken to people very recently who were involved in Moderation and they just say they just there's not enough people to police this stuff, particularly around Um, particularly around hate speech, um in the company What are you talking about? I mean you use twitter, right? Do you see a rise in hate speech? I mean just a personal anecdote like what do you I don't personally my For you I would see I get I get more of that kind of content Yeah, personally, but I'm not going to talk to talk to the rest of for the rest of twitter You see more hate speech personally. I would say I would see more hateful content in that in that content You don't like or or hateful. What do you mean to describe a hateful thing? Yeah, I mean, you know this content that will solicit a reaction Something that may include something that is slightly racist or slightly sexist those kinds of those kinds of things So you think if something is slightly sexist, it should be banned No, I'm not saying anything. I'm saying curious. I'm trying to say what you mean by hateful content And I'm asking for specific examples um And if and you just said that if something is slightly sexist That's hateful content. Does that mean that it should be banned? Well, you've asked me you've asked me whether my feed Whether it's got less or more. I'd say it's got slightly more. That's why I'm asking for examples Right. Can you name one example? I honestly don't you? Honestly, I don't name a single example I'll tell you why because I don't actually use that for you feed anymore because I just don't particularly like it A lot of people a lot of people are quite similar. I only You said you've seen more hateful content, but you can't name a single example not even one I'm not sure I've used that feed for the last Three or four weeks and I how did you see the hateful content content because I've been I've been using I've been using twitter since you've taken it over for the last six months Okay, so then you must have at some point seen that you've for you hateful content I'm asking for one example Right and you can't give a single one and I'm saying I then I say so that you don't know what you're talking about Really? Yes, because you can't be a single example Of hateful content not even one tweet and yet you claimed that the hateful content was high. Well That's a false. No, what I could slide what no no what I came was There are many organizations that say that that kind of information is on the rise now Whether whether it has a I mean Strategic dialogue Institute in the UK. They will say that so you look as people will say all sorts of nonsense I'm literally asking for a single example and you can't name one right and as I already said I don't use that feed, but how would you know that I don't think this is getting any You literally said you experienced more hateful content and then couldn't name a single example right and as I said That's absurd. I haven't I haven't actually looked at that feed I mean, how would you know this hateful content because I'm saying that's what I saw a few weeks ago I can't give you an exact example. Let's move on. We have we only have a certain amount of time Um, well COVID misinformation Uh chase, what do you got? As the clip starts out here Elon is clasping his knees or resting his hands on his knees right there And I think this is him getting ready for these difficult questions here And I'm saying this because he doesn't know the question yet And these are some stress signals, but he's also getting ready for action And they're mixed with confidence So his breathing rate goes down as which is how often we're breathing it slows down as we get more confident more comfortable more relaxed And he knows what's going to happen with this little reporter guy And this is the equivalent of a chess game where only one player can see what the other is going to do in the next 15 moves and the other player has no idea So Elon knows exactly where this is headed based on this reporter's questioning and behavior The reporter has no clue what is in store for him So you can see Elon's posture posture gradually build Throughout the clip here and he's gaining more confidence and his blink rate has dropped down significantly Which is how often we blink we blink more often when we're stressed And less often when we're focused the reporter is trying to backpedal out of being Responsible for every word out of his mouth. He wants to be no longer responsible for everything that he says And in interrogation training, this is called back stopping This is when you elicit information and then you use it without providing an exit for that person You don't allow them to build themselves and exit out of the conversation Now i love how his questions are all about misinformation at the same time He's creating misinformation And and deception here. So elan's breathing rate Spikes in the middle of this right at the middle as the social tension between these two increases And he's having to keep this guy Accurate and the real struggle that elan's having is getting integrity out of this person Which i think elan's doing a pretty good job at here And this is masterful the way that he has kind of flipped this around On this dude mark. What do you got? Yeah, here's the problem For the bbc is with a good debater Musk would be in massive problems right now Musk isn't that good at what he's doing, but he's so much better than the guy from the bbc That's that's the issue. Musk's tactic in the previous video was i am but what are you or Whatever's good for the goose is good for the gander, which is not a brilliant tactic The tactic he's about to use here is to is to ask for an example Well, you've got to know that the person doesn't have an example either You know, they haven't they don't have an example or you're a massive risk taker Because if the person has an example You're in massive problems and it would leave him two avenues to go To go. Okay. Well. Yeah, that's a fair example and we should have done something We should do something about that or you'd have to go that is not indicative of twitter as a whole There'd be there's a few more avenues, but those would be the basic ones Here's what a maitland would have done maitland would have started it by going Mr. Musk We have spoken to a number of your employees who all say And would have shown something so that there it looked like There was a good strong possibility that they had actually interviewed people And and what maitland would do is actually have done the interviews and actually have the evidence So go to a knife fight with a very sharp knife We we see from from Clayton right at the start He is unsure and I think musk jumps on that knows that he's unsure and starts to dismantle the argument um He uses the argument of of Clayton uses the argument of what we call the argument of ignorance Which is to basically go well everybody knows everybody knows twitter is a is a terrible place That's that's in terms of the latin ignorance, which it means As one would expect as one would expect. This is how twitter is well Musk goes will give me a solid example of that and that's called burden of proof Okay, so give me that you the burden of proof is is yours. So now give me that Uh, I mean Here's the unfortunate thing Clayton then has to has to say the words. I don't like it Which is taste rather than ethics. So he gets pushed gets pushed not by great skill But by some simple dismantlement because the person doesn't have actual evidence We seem fall apart. He goes. I mean kinder. Yeah I mean, you know May include slightly. I'm not saying anything I haven't so everything is is moving towards the negative for Clayton Not even one says Says musk brow beating him at the same time at that point musk knows that he's completely dismantled the argument But but not in a particularly brilliant way And I'm sure he's greater putting rockets up in the air and all kinds of other things at debate He's not spectacular, but he's more than good enough against this person from the bbc Don't know what that guy's doing that complete disaster Greg, what do you go on this one? Yeah mark? I don't think he's debating. I think he's negotiating and in negotiation There's a concept and I there are tons of negotiation companies I don't want to give credit to one that's probably wrong But one of them calls it throwing junk on my lawn and that's what this guy is doing That means there's no content. He's just throwing things out and seeing if they stick We don't have to be a great debate. All you have to do is say let's junk on my lawn I'm not gonna I'm not gonna buy it and that's what he does. He just puts him on notice. There's nothing there Chase you say chess. I think one of these the board is common But one of these guys is playing chess and the other's playing checkers is the problem This guy thinks he understands the rules because the blocks are red and black But this is a guy who negotiates for a living guaranteed. You don't get this rich You don't make this kind of money in business without being able to smell out something that's weak The this guy starts off again to attack with hands exposed and fingers and thumbs extended But he's illustrating out of frame when he's talking about this for the first time and when I say illustrating out of frame I don't mean big mark like you talk about with passion I mean out of frame where it's outside of his vision I don't trust if a person tells me a fish is this big. Okay, good. If it's that big No, so I rarely trust when I see a person do that And then you see him drop his hand for the first time it literally drops to his thigh and slaps his leg The words are emphatic, but the body language isn't that makes me not trust that he's talked to anyone To your point maitlin would have his tone changes when he gets to the words hate speech Musk is sitting there with intake face. He's braced. He's listening Then his chin up as he pokes out. That's defiance or indignance Indignation is he starts asking about his experience And then you see a full blown all of musk's illustrators and everything start to have congruency You see that trump-like illustrator again a confident thing that he used earlier And then as musk starts to attack this guy, this is I'm just going to run down a list of things I see happen in this guy. He changes cadence He does that barrier at the abdomen. He does a nervous smile His fingers are no longer spread. This is the first time we hear a vocal fry He qualifies he contradicts himself in 20 words from one thing to another to say I haven't but other people have He conditions the hell out of everything he's talking about. He's got an argument this absolute fallacy other people Well, if you don't have any experience in your waste of your time and we see him start to turtle He goes from I to we which we call pronoun shifting or blame sharing and then he tries That to use the time We're running out of time and the agenda to get out of the situation He can't finish an entire thought And then you look and you say one of the things that's interesting here is what you're seeing is a lack of social anxiety on musk's part and I think part of that's because like he said I've been people all the time because I just am not keenly aware But the other part is this kid his I mean this guy's been around this since he's a kid He's been around situations where he's taken abuse. He's been treated badly if you go read what he said They say his life was excruciating as a child is the word I read And this is back to that thing when you run out of facts say, I don't know because when he attacks this guy I love mark you're pointing out how he does and he goes and he's attacking him with body language But he also does shoulders up it. You can't even give me one That's that's it. This guy's just nailed down scott. What do you got? Man, this is one of the reasons I hate going last because everybody's gotten everything But I'll sort of here's what I think. I think we're seeing a problem solver solve a problem Because this guy's coming to him with a problem and this is somebody like I said earlier It's this guy builds rockets and sends people to space and he's not kidding around. He's doing that This is the guy that that made the electric car. They're everywhere now. It was a great idea Everybody wants to do it and all that but he said like what we do that and did it A lot of problems come with that with both of those things with with changing The way people are are transported around their country and around the planet Literally around the planet with rockets So he's used to dealing with problems and he sees this guy or this situation as a problem That's why he goes through and says, okay. Well, what how do we fix this problem? Tell me what the problems are one of the problems you've had Where did you where did these things happen for you? And I think he probably does this with people who are building those rockets for him and build those cars for him He has the same style the same style of conversation with him as he's breaking down the Information to get to the root of the problem and the things that that cause problems for I think that's what we're seeing. Not as much as I see where you're saying It's it's a negotiation skill as well because boy, there's a smoking Negotiation skill he's got there But this is a problem a problem-solving situation. I think is as From my point of view and you're right Greg that thing that that trump thing where trump does the He does a little point and thing and you pinpoint that's when he pinpoints something important And musk does that here too when he's pinpointing something, but he's bringing it toward himself So it's that introspective thing. He's trying to solve this problem. That's why I think That's what I think it's happening. I think we're seeing a master problem solver Solve a problem and it just goes sideways for this guy He can't get out of it and it just it just wow, it's so so bad for this guy I don't feel sorry for him He's asking for it and they should have sent him in there because you you don't send a mouse to do a rat's job And that's what they've done one of those tape replays I mean, I would only just add that, you know, we have spoken to people who have been sacks that Used to be in content moderation and and we've spoken to people very recently who were involved in moderation and they just say they just there's not enough people to police this stuff particularly around particularly around hate speech In the company I mean you use twitter right do you see a rise in hate speech? I mean, just a personal anecdote like what did you I don't personally my For you I would see I get I get more of that kind of content Yeah, personally, but I'm not going to talk to talk to the rest of for the rest of twitter You see more hate speech personally, I would say I would see more hateful content in that in that content You don't like or or hateful what do you mean to describe a hateful thing? Yeah, I mean, you know just content that will solicit a reaction to something that may include something that is Slightly racist or slightly sexist those kinds of those kinds of things. So you think something is slightly sexist. It should be banned I know what you're saying. I'm not saying anything. I'm just curious I'm trying to say what you mean by hateful content I'm asking for specific examples And if and you just said that if something is slightly sexist That's hateful content. Does that mean that it should be banned? Well, you've asked me you've asked me whether my feed Whether it's got less or more. I'd say it's got slightly more. That's why I'm asking for examples Right. Can you name one example? I honestly don't you Honestly, I don't name a single example I'll tell you why because I don't actually use that for you feed anymore because I just don't particularly like it A lot of people are quite similar You've said you've seen more hateful content, but you can't name a single example not even one I'm not sure I've used that feed for the last Three or four weeks and I don't know how did you see the hateful content content because I've been I've been using I've been using twitter since you've taken it over for the last six months Okay, so then you must have at some point seen that you've for you hateful content I'm asking for one example Right and you can't give a single one and I'm saying I then I say so that you don't know what you're talking about Really? Yes, because you can't be a single example Of hateful content not even one tweet and yet you claimed that the hateful content was high Well That's a false. No, what I can't slide. What no, no, what I came was There are many organizations that say that that kind of information is on the rise now Whether it has a might be one example I mean, right. I literally can't name one like the strategic dialogue Institute in the UK they will say that so you look is people will say all sorts of nonsense I'm literally asking for a single example and you can't name one right and as I've already said I don't use that feed But how would you know that I don't think this is getting any literally said you experienced more hateful content And then couldn't name a single example right and as I said, that's absurd I haven't I haven't actually looked at that feed I was how would you know this hateful content because I'm saying that's what I saw a few weeks ago I can't give you an exact example Let's move on. We have we only have a certain amount of time Um, well, COVID misinformation Well, COVID misinformation You you change the COVID misinformation has BBC changes COVID misinformation The BBC does not set the rules on Twitter. So I'm asking you no, I'm talking about the BBC's misinformation about COVID I'm just asking you about you change the labels the COVID misinformation labels. There used to be a policy and then That disappeared Why do that? Okay, COVID is no longer an issue does the BBC hold itself at all responsible for misinformation regarding mass masking and side effects of vaccinations And not reporting on that at all And what about the fact that the BBC was put under pressure by the British government To change the editorial policy. Are you aware of that? This is this is not an interview about the BBC. Oh, you thought it wasn't And I see now why you've done Twitter spaces. I am not a representative of the BBC's editorial policy I want to make that clear. Let's talk about something else All right, mark. Where do you go? Yeah, okay. Let me I mean, there's lots going on there. I'll just do a short bit on this The piece that he did there. This is not an interview about the BBC That's that is the phrase that he should have used a long time back Like four videos ago He should have said this is not an interview about me. This is not about an interview about the BBC Let's get back to you Elon And and controlled it. So he's too late with that phrase. It's a good stock phrase. It's a good technique But no technique however good is going to work if you're late to the game late for the game I think it's about like, I know seven seven one to to musk at the moment It's uh, it's more than a hat trick. It's uh, I've never seen a score like it Greg, what do you got on this one? Well mark, the other problem is when you get to the point where your your thinking brain is not working When your parasympathetic sympathetic or fighting and your body brain wins over your thinking brain Guess what happens then you can't finish sentences and we're hearing but All that in the last one it takes a while to recover from that So his brain is still not in the right place and this might be a grasp force a floating object But you're right if he had done this earlier even last round he would have been better off Because musk can see that this guy's turned to run you can see amusement in his face You see his upper face is smiling lower face not so much Watch that phone come up as a barrier. I was talking about this earlier He's been holding a phone here and now it's up here. He feels the stress. You can see it See his respiration is up. He's dropping his hand constantly now His hand is falling you hear it hitting his leg as opposed to what putting his hand back quietly That's that's already starting to show defeat And he's pursing his lips. That's frustration. I think we see in his first lips And then all that musk does is sidestep the question and say did you do it? He does do the right thing like you said and wins back out. This guy is back to adapting and his abdomen Scott i'm with you. Did he use the wrong soap? Is he constantly doing that? Does he just need training? Look look us up. We'll show you how to avoid that But don't do that that is telegraphing your insecurity In my days of teaching project managers and construction people We would always teach them and we would do role play to teach them how to deal with conflict And we would say cover your belly button because i'm going to punch you right in the gut And that's maybe what's going on in his head is these protectants. So scott. What do you got? Yeah, I don't don't tell him to get hold of us because he wouldn't listen You know we did not we told him he did lot of nothing going on He wouldn't take anything no intake on that But so now Elon's getting a little bit. I don't think he's angry, but I think he's getting riled up Right here because his breathing rate increases his nostrils flare a little bit See a lot of lip person on him as well because he doesn't he doesn't agree with with what the other guy what the interviewer is is saying and He's he's really he's I think he's really showing again a lot of control here. I think he's showing um I think it'd be tough to stay under control When you're when this guy's talking about something you've put so much into and this guy's bad mouthing it and you're you're You're fighting him or fussing with him about it So but even though he has his voice Tone has stayed the same everything's pretty much the same. He's talking a little bit fast Compared to what he was talking in this last video. He's speeding up a little bit and Then he has those long pauses after the statements So I think that's that's another he's because he knows he's winning so he can do that The other guy has nothing. He's just he's a swinging. He's flailing around swinging. He's got nothing And when he's and when it comes up about the b the bbc and the editorial policy That's when musk's right foot comes out and it goes forward and it presses down it passes a couple of times And I think that's when he knows he's scoring against this guy He's laying down fire that this guy can't put out or he can't protect himself against So I think those are the the confidence cues we're seeing out of right there. Chase. What do you got? Watch this guy this reporter's abdomen as the clip gets started here. He's started to almost hyperventilate And in keeping with his baseline, he's trying very hard to conceal it While elan is not so if elan decides to take a breath or adjust himself He doesn't try to conceal it and that's a huge difference here between these two people. This guy Goes into almost fight or flight mode here. He wasn't expecting any of this and you can see him panicking Even looking at the camera crew for confirmation or maybe rescue. I'm not sure which one And you can see that his feet still haven't moved from under the chair this whole time He's trying to lock his behavior down and you'll see this in people who have an unconscious belief that their natural normal behavior Isn't good enough or isn't appropriate to be on camera So this hidden belief makes those people unconsciously try to control and restrain natural behaviors like this And this is why even if you watch this on mute, you're still going to get a weird feeling Like a gut feeling or an intuition that there's something artificial. There's something fake Uh to this person or persons like that one of those tape replays covid misinformation You change you change the covid misinformation has bbc changes covid misinformation The bbc does not set the rules on twitter. So i'm asking you no, i'm talking about the bbc's misinformation about covid I'm asking you about you change the labels the covid misinformation labels. There used to be a policy and then That then disappeared Why do that? Okay, covid is no longer an issue does the bbc hold itself at all responsible for misinformation regarding masking and side effects of vaccinations And not reporting on that at all And what about the fact that the bbc was put under pressure by the british government To change the editorial policy. Are you aware of that? And this is this is not an interview about the bbc. Oh, you thought it wasn't And I see now why you've done twitter spaces. I am not a representative of the bbc's editorial policy I want to make that clear. Let's talk about something else Um I want to talk about If you have any regrets regrets and and you know, I think you you were buddha a davish lapel concert, I think your own lawyer a little a little well Some say a little some say a bit more I think your own lawyer said you couldn't get a fair trial in san francisco because There are lots of people that don't necessarily like you here. Yeah, but you know, I have to say it. I was wrong He was wrong. I guess the uh, because um, I was acquitted uh by the san francisco jury unanimously so Yeah, but I guess but look do you have any regrets buying twitter? Um, I think it was something that needed to be done. Um I mean you said you didn't feel like difficult, you know, I'd say that like The the pain level of twitter has been extremely high This hasn't been some sort of party so It's been really quite a stressful situation You know for the last several months not not an easy one But apart from the pain, I mean, so it's been quite painful. Um, but I think uh At the end of the day it should have been done. I think that I were there many mistakes made along the way, of course, you know, um and uh But you know all's well that ends well and so I I feel like uh, we're headed Uh took a place. Um, you know, we're Roughly break even I think we're trending towards being half low positive very soon like literally in a matter of of of months The advertisers are returning Um, the I think the quality of recommended tweets has improved significantly and we've taken a lot of feedback from Uh people that have looked at the open source A recommendation algorithm and we've we've made a lot of improvements even Even since that was made open source and we're going to keep doing that. So Overall, I think the trend is uh, very good. So, you know All right, great. What do you got? Let's look at the reporter first. He's back to telling hands now. Look at his fingers and thumbs are spread He's got facts. So he's going at him and then When he's saying you didn't have a chance of getting a fair trial You can see musk telegraph disagreement set jaw Purselips back against the chair and a rigid posture. So you know, he's going to come back with something And you can see this this reporter Is pleased with himself because you can see a real smile come back not that nervous toothy panicky smile We saw it just a few minutes ago And musk is not really clear and really confident because he has a trailing answer And and he just is not exactly himself there his hands back and adapt to rubbing his leg Now they ask him a hard question. Do you have regrets? What do I think? Yes Because he's got new patterns of adapting and rubbing his legs. He purses his lips. He drums his thumbs His left hand is in a new position. We haven't seen there's a changing cadence And he's navigating language as he slows down to figure it out He liltz when he says it needed doing and he didn't answer the question not once That means that likely yes, he has regrets now whether those regrets are big enough to make him want to get rid of the company He's a different story Then after he gets past the question and back to face back to facts You'll get to a point where his cadence and his confidence increase. That's what we're seeing scott. We got All right, I agree and there are a lot of firsts here In in this one. So let's play it paid close attention to his hands and feet This introspective Question about twitter. You're right. I think it makes him uncomfortable He has I think he because of all you had to go through to get to get up get it to where it is Is now This is the first time we I think we see his arms actually as barriers Not that he needs to protect himself against the guy, but I think he's he's he's bearing but at the same time it's that odd Self soothing things doing self pacification But because of what he's thinking about up in there up in that head he is He's got his feet pulled under the chair and they're crossed And about halfway through he pulls he pulls him even further under the chair So I think as it goes along he gets a little bit more comfortable. He's going with a lot of lip-persing Much more than there has been up to this point Um and his steeple is very low To he's got that going on then he starts rubbing his legs He's got that finger roll that that multi-tap thing going on his leg. He's just really uncomfortable and I think at the end when when he says uh when elon says it's hurtful um, he's adapting again and pacify with that hand to his neck Um or to that neck area, you know up there in the top there. All right mark. What do you got? Yeah, this is the best place the interviewer gets musk to I think completely by by accident and doesn't really pick up on it doesn't observe Doesn't observe and then take control and so really doesn't take him where he could here's what happens I think um the interviewer starts with an ad hominin attack attacks the man goes people boogey basically goes people don't like you do they um and and musk as as cold as you might think he sometimes Appears that is not likely to be true for his internal feelings. In fact, they could be very strongly Uh in the opposite uh to that he may respond Um, you're quite extremely to the idea of of of not being liked So he does go down the route of going actually, you know, there's a whole jury who seemed to like me and go in my favor Then he starts talking about buying Potentially, what is the most socially malignant platform in the history of humankind? It's a platform that if you want people to be nasty to you twitter is traditionally the one He buys that and he says the pain level has been Extremely high So he names the feeling pain and extremely high quite stressful situation quite painful He keeps reiterating this idea of painful and his body language has changed his tone has changed his rhythm has changed and And so the interviewer here he says they should there's the mistakes as well the interviewer here should at this point Understand what's going on and take control. Tell me exactly what was most painful about this What event was most painful to get into that you get more information out of it? Well, he doesn't doesn't take control of it. And so here's what happens is musk manages to get straight on to his His set piece which is the trend for twitter is very good. The stock is doing well. It's it's great. So Because it wasn't taken control of the emotional state dissipates and he goes straight for a set piece Gets his stock piece out there opportunity lost Complete disaster chase. What do you got chase chase? this reporter Was just consistently scratching his belly Fake nodding pretending to listen scratching his face checking his phone While someone is talking to him While someone's talking to him And it's just awful to watch and it's just more of the same. It's two people who are both feeling insecure One of them is open about it and one of them is desperately trying to restrain control and conceal it While wearing kind of a broken mask of maturity and composure. I think that's the mask That we're seeing on the right side of the screen That as you're watching there. That's all I got here Greg Chase the one thing now I've already gone. But the one thing I would say he's not just talking to a person He's talking to a guy who could choose to use his first or last name and still be elvis Hey, you know who he was I kept I kept laughing Because more I kept for some reason I went to thinking if I was looking through all those holes in the hotel room because I know you're in a hotel room Mark and when you look through out the door and you look through that little hole If you're staring they're talking saying exactly what you're saying As I was looking at you see that little hole It was so weird, man. I don't know where that came from, but it hit me I couldn't get out of my head You're so close That's what it looks like though Oh, yeah, the little peephole I'll try and do that for you later one of those tapery plays Chase um I want to talk about If you have any regret regrets and and you know, I think you you were booed at a Dave Chappelle concert I think your own lawyers a little a little a little well Some say a little some say a bit more I think what lawyer said you couldn't get a fair trial in san francisco because There are lots of people that don't necessarily like you here. Yeah, but you know, I have to say it I was wrong. He was wrong. I guess that Because um, I was acquitted uh by the san francisco jury unanimously so Yeah, but I guess but look do you have any regrets buying twitter? Um, I think it was something that needed to be done. Um We said you know, it's like difficult, you know I'd say the like the the pain level of twitter has been extremely high. Um, this hasn't been some sort of party. Um, so It's been really quite a stressful situation You know for the last several months not not an easy one But apart from the pain, I mean, so it's been quite painful. Um, but I think uh At the end of the day it should have been done. I think that were the many mistakes made along the way, of course you know, um and uh But you know also it ends well and so I feel like uh, we're headed Uh, took a place. Um, you know, we're Roughly break even I think we're trending towards being half low positive very soon like literally in a matter of of months The advertisers are returning The I think the quality of recommended tweets has improved significantly and we've taken a lot of feedback from people that have looked at the open source Recommendation algorithm and we've we've made a lot of improvements even Even since that was made open source and we're going to keep doing that. So All right, I think the trend is sort of very good. So, you know I mean it was actually something I was going to ask you you mentioned the pain, but but you actually tweeted Uh, I think in february you said the last three months have been extremely tough I wouldn't wish that pain on anyone. Are you talking emotionally? That I mean, can you can you explain? I wasn't sad or anything right right like some people around here Which is dangerous take the woods rain It is or it can't be but Just can you just talk me through the emotional strain of this? Yeah, I mean look I've under I've been under constant attack. I mean Uh, it's not like I you know have a stone cold heart or something like that, you know, uh If if you're under constant criticism attack, it's and then that that gets fed to you non-stop including through twitter um that uh It's rough, you know, um Now at the end of the day, I kind of think that like if you do lose your feedback loop That's that's actually not good So You know If if so, I think it's it isn't actually important to get negative feedback I don't turn replies off and I actually got rid of I removed my entire block list. So I block anyone either um So so somebody can you know, so so I get like a lot of negative feedback But I think it's actually good to get negative feedback, you know When you talk about the the emotional strain you've gone back to feedback Is that the thing that's been most difficult to take the sort of negative feedback? Yeah, I mean if if if the media is writing non-stop stories about why you're a horrible person, I mean, you know, um It's uh hurtful obviously Hi, greg what do you got? Yeah, this is a great one because of a handful of things number one elan must respiration goes up You can see it is actually his respiration goes up when he's talking about people attacking and that kind of thing He's talking about a violent area He doesn't do it then but when he starts talking about you see that and then he starts to Adap more he's rubbing his leg or grabbing his leg His legs chase to your point earlier about who feels safe His legs are pinned under his chair at the beginning of this And he shows helplessness as he talks about under constant attack He's got more than normal eye contact now. This is one of the few times I'm pretty certain this is emotional eye accessing because I think he does a lot of break eye contact to get out of Eye contact because of the autism but in this case his eyes are down and dwelling as he's talking about something So not breaking eye contact and they're there. He does really hard eye contact until he talks about the hard part of it His eyes drop. He's got a nervous smile Then you see him relax and when he's asked a question about how it feels He goes back to that other pontificate move where he crosses his body and he goes into what I was saying earlier Is contemplating and he starts to talk and one of the most powerful things I've seen so far When he says something's hurtful. He covers his throat. I think it's true. I think we're seeing Genuine behavior from a guy who may or may not even understand some of the social cues chase. What do you got? Yeah, I think there's just this speaks to one thing that you'll see when elan is asked in an earlier interview of How he felt when buzz aldrin and neil armstrong were disapproving of him starting a space company and he cried talking about how That that hurt his feelings of that that his heroes disapproved of him And I think elan Uh as as tough as he is to I could I couldn't deal with the news articles like that published about me every day I don't think I could deal with that But he still thrives on acceptance and some kind of approval But I think more acceptance being accepted and liked and I think that is the most injurious thing to him is this Uh mass disapproval of him You're definitely seeing that here mark Uh, yeah, I'm not going to add anything much to this But I do want to try and see whether I can give you The the effect that you're looking for there scott. Hang on. I've looked at me through the peephole Just start talking just start talking about body language doing that just be all serious Yeah, okay, so so what we do see in this is musk His foot does come forward when he speaks on these more emotional areas It was actually something I was going to ask you you mentioned the pain, but but you actually tweeted I think in february you said the last three months have been extremely tough I wouldn't wish that pain on anyone. Are you talking emotionally there? I mean, can you can you explain I wasn't stabbed or anything right right like some people around here? Dangerous take the woods rain It is or it can be but Just can you just talk me through the emotional strain of this? Yeah, I mean look I've under I've been under constant attack. I mean It's not like I you know have a stone cold heart or something like that, you know If if you're under constant criticism attack It's and then that that gets fed to you non-stop including through twitter That It's rough, you know Now at the end of the day, I kind of think that like if you do lose your feedback loop That's that's actually not good So You know If so, I think it's it isn't actually important to get negative feedback I don't turn replies off and I actually got rid of I removed my entire block list so I don't block anyone either So so somebody can you know, so I get like a lot of negative feedback But I think it's actually good to get negative feedback You know When you talk about the the emotional strain you've gone back to feedback Is that the thing that's been most difficult to take the sort of negative feedback? Yeah, I mean if if if the media is writing non-stop stories about why you're a horrible person, I mean, you know It's hurtful obviously What are you looking for in terms of in terms of a revenue stream on that? What are your goals? Well, I don't know if it's like necessarily a giant revenue stream You know because even if you if you have sort of a million People that are subscribed for let's say a hundred dollars a year ish. That's a hundred million dollars And that's that's a that's a fairly small revenue stream relative to advertising But what we're really trying to do here with verification is To massively raise the cost of this information and and bots in general So my prediction is that any social media company that does not insist on paid verification will simply be overwhelmed by advanced ai bots I mean chat gbt is essentially a zillion instances of chat gbt How do you really want you want on the platform? Do you want? Big news organizations being overwhelmed by bots so they have to go to the point is that you won't be If you pay but a lot of organizations have already said they're not going to pay like the New York Times Well, then You know, that's up to them if they you know kind of make them pay It's a small amount of money. So I don't know what what their problem is So But we're going to treat everyone equally. So what we're not going to do is say that there's some anointed class Of journalists who are the special ones who get to tell everyone What they're what's what they what they should think that it should be up to the people what they think um, and even if an article is completely accurate and Comprehensive and everything if they're still in in writing that article the media is choosing the narrative They're deciding what to write an article about So I'm hopeful that this can be more a case of the public choosing the narrative as opposed to the media choosing narrative But the media can choose an hour at least at least a combination of the media and the public choosing the narrative And the the public getting to weigh in on stories if they if they think there's they should add something to it or We've got something wrong And over time I think if twitter is the best source of truth It will succeed and if and if we are not the best source of truth, we will fail All right mark. Where do you got? Yeah, the only important thing for me here is is the messaging That he's using here. He starts talking about verification His hands come up to the to the truth plane to to the stomach area He starts to steeple. He's in symmetry there. He's down what I call the wheel plane So he's suggesting to us. Look, I'm completely aligned on this This is my message that that verification Is the go but actually he's up in passion more than more than truth so he's he's excited and and clear and consistent about this idea of Certification because he's just this is his message. This is what he's come to do is deliver this message now Then he starts with a Even bigger message and I don't know quite whether he's worked this one out in his head But his metaphors are interesting That there shouldn't be an anointed class of journalist Well, so anointed if you're anointed that means you're a monarch So he's saying there shouldn't be monarchs of journalism Essentially, what's quite ironic is he's using quite kind of marxist rhetoric the idea of a class system and some having more power than others He's using that on on what he would expect to be a slightly more left-wing leaning journalist So he's using the class system on that journalist Which would tend to be what that journalist would try and use on him again He's completely reversed the usual ideas on him. That's pretty clever But I don't think it's a left and right wing situation here What what what the battle is here? I think is new media versus old media and therefore the idea of the the uh, the new york post not paying for verification Um, doesn't cost very much. Well, it's not about cost. It's about they don't want power to shift So I think that's what he's talking about here. He's very clear about uh, people don't like new power and and And I think he's pointing out that this journalist might be part of the old power system that old power system That was pretty nasty to him. Maybe even more nasty than his own platform has been to him Greg, what do you got on this one? Yeah, the the thing I do like here I agree with you. There's all kinds of stuff going on old politics of it But the thing I do like is when he's talking about being truthful and this being the most reliable or best source of the truth He goes back to that contemplating thing. It's not responsive. This is not reactive This is him thinking and he's thinking you can hear him walking through it. Now. We're back to my initial Posit and that was are we talking to lex luther? Are we talking to tony stark? So now we're getting into areas where we want to know what he really thinks and what his motivation is It looks truthful. It looks truthful to your point all of his hands and everything are in the right place I don't think I think parts of it are certainly structured and scripted You write on mark with his hands up and doing all that truth playing part of it some of it The other pieces though, I think is he's thinking through it. He's actually thinking we've seen what he does when he goes into that Thoughtful process So I think we're seeing genuine and he really does think that the most important thing he'll do Is to become the most trusted piece of truth and you're right If you think old media new media is too late to be thinking old media new media. It's already over at that point chase what you got I don't have anything for this. I just think we'll be Our great grandchildren will be talking about musk. They will still be talking about them 150 years from now scott Yeah, I agree. I agree with you. I think that the the the thing that stuck out the most to me was that Steeple that was way up front in the front of his chest there when he's talking about that I think it's his his ultimate confidence at that point And then when the interviewer tries that I'll talk for a minute and ask a question and just pause Along pause because we're making him uncomfortable. He'll start talking. It didn't work He got so uncomfortable. He had to start talking again. So I did it didn't it didn't work on him This I think they should they should have sent in somebody else To do this so anyway, but after that then I think elon goes back to his baseline and The question is important and exciting for The interviewer. He thinks he's really got him something here And so we see all his little things of excitement. He can't keep his hands out of his beard He can't quit squirming around and moving around. He's itching everywhere And then then elon plays that you're smarter than me game and this guy loses He he's not I don't I don't know. I feel like it was badmouthing this guy I don't I don't mean to be But he didn't do a very good job and I couldn't do that that good a job as he did I mean trying to interview elon mosquitos. Are you kidding me? So he's got me. Yes, you gotta Yeah, I don't know that guy that guy's a pro interviewer, but you know, but He I don't know. I just feel I feel bad for badmouthing that guy so much because I'm just wailing on him He is pro in title alone One of those tape replays What are you looking for in terms of in terms of a revenue stream or not? What are your goals? Well, I don't know if it's like necessarily a giant revenue stream You know because even if you if you have sort of a million People that are subscribed for let's say a hundred dollars a year ish That's a hundred million dollars And that's that's a that's a fairly small revenue stream relative to advertising But what we're all we really try to do here with verification is To massively raise the cost of disinformation and and bots in general So my prediction is that any Social media company that does not insist on paid verification will simply be overwhelmed By advanced AI bots I mean chat gbt's essentially a zillion instances of chat gbt How do you really want you want on the platform? Do you want Big news organizations being overwhelmed by bots so they have to tell you the point is that you won't be If you pay but a lot of organizations have already said they're not going to pay like the New York Times Well, then You know that's up to them if they you know, we're gonna make them pay Um, it's a small amount of money. So I don't know what what their problem is So But we're going to treat everyone equally. So what we're not going to do is say that there's some anointed class Of journalists who are the special ones who get to tell everyone what they're what they what they should think That it should be up to the people what they think And even if an article is completely accurate and Um Comprehensive and everything if they're still in in writing that article the media is choosing the narrative They're deciding what to write an article about Um So I'm hopeful that this can be more a case of the public choosing the narrative as opposed to the media choosing narrative But the media could choose an hour at least at least a combination of the media and the public choosing the narrative Um, and the the public getting to to weigh in on stories if they if they think that's they should add something to it or We've got something wrong And over time I think if twitter is the best source of truth It will succeed and if and if we are not the best source of truth, we will fail Someone comes in and offers you 44 billion dollars for twitter right now Would you take it? No Would you consider it? No Why Uh, well, I take it back it depends on who I suppose if I was confident that they would Pursue that would they would they would rigorously pursue the truth um Then I then I guess I guess I would be glad to hand it off to someone else I don't care about the money really, but I I I do want to have Some source of truth that I can count on And and I hope that's our aspiration with with twitter is to have A source of truth that you can count on Oh, that's that's it's also real time It's an immediate source of truth that you can count on and that gets more accurate with time as people Comments on particular thing. Well, if you don't care about the money, you could just give it to someone that you that you think is Uh, you know a good person to run twitter Who do you think that might be? I'm not the boss of twitter No one to choose. Well, that's You might still have an idea Who could run twitter? Yes Honestly, I have no idea who could run twitter. Yeah, it's a hard job Okay, let's I mean, let's move on to it. You've said that you were going to um stand down I already have chief executive, right? Okay All right chase. What do you got? this is uh Maybe just an absence of integrity. I don't I don't know what to say about it You know, I've seen haven't seen this in a long time. He's got this line of let's move on Every single time he's asked for a single shred of personal thought Real ideas or anything that isn't on his phone screen Uh for him to read The body language is pretty much the same Elon's mostly open the reporter guy is uh Insecure they're both insecure But he's kind of lacking in self-worth self-esteem and self-confidence And elon knows this And when the reporter says, uh, he can just give twitter away The look of self satisfaction on his face is priceless This mouth closure. There's a little smirk on his face And he's tapping his fingers on his knee here Indicate a tiny spike in his confidence. He thinks he's got a good strategy here Until elon essentially Shows him that it's that he maybe doesn't have one Greg, what do you think? Yeah, I'm gonna stick on mosque here. Um, he's got congruent internal voices He's thinking about how to answer the question you see his eyes drift down into his left Then he goes into thinking pose Again that same pose we've seen to just anytime. There's something that requires contemplation And anytime he's doing that stream of consciousness and he clearly is here when he says One source of truth real time immediate that's him thinking and changing as he speaks And this is him being honest and congruent. I think so we're seeing now. What's his motivation There's two elements back to back that talk about his motivation and why he's doing things Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so it's an interesting area here of ethical aspiration like who should run something very very powerful and um Well, I mean who should who should run it? He's put forward an idea earlier Which is it should be some kind of more democratic process between the media and people Already, but the interviewer is on him around tell us who you think should run this He turns it back on the interviewer again the interviewer shouldn't accept that and doesn't he says look i'm not this I'm not ceo. It's not my it's not my responsibility And but then carries on to say look genuinely. I just don't know now Here's what's interesting about musk is that he is socially aware enough To kind of play a good joke, which he looks down and to the right Uh in a kind of an emotional way and says yeah, it's a it's a hard job I I don't think I think it's just a good joke that he's playing there knowing that that You know a trap was sprung And it and it Trapped the interviewer Right where he needed him Certainly socially smart enough to be able to do that down right Motion before delivering the punchline Uh of the trap I don't think he's really in an emotional state about how hard a job it is I think just think he likes the idea of that's where the conversation went there. It's all I got on that one One of those tape replays Someone comes in and offers you 44 billion dollars for Twitter right now Would you take it? No Would you consider it? No Why? Uh, well, I take it back. It depends on who I suppose if I was confident that they would pursue That they would they would rigorously pursue the truth um Then I then I guess I guess I would be glad to hand it off to someone else I don't care about the money really, but I I I do want to have Some source of truth that I can count on And and I hope that's our aspiration with with twitter is to have A source of truth that you can count on Oh, that's that's it's also real time It's an immediate source of truth that you can count on and that gets more accurate with time as people Comments on particularly well, if you don't care about the money, you could just give it to someone that you that you think is Uh, you know a good person to run twitter Who do you think that might be? I'm not a boss of twitter No, but it's you. Well, that's You might still have an idea Who could run twitter? Yes Honestly, I have no idea who could run twitter. Yeah, it's a hard job Okay, let's I mean let's move on to that. You've said that you were going to um stand down. I already have a chief executive, right? Okay um What's the most difficult thing you've had to do? What's the hardest thing you've had to do? In my whole life in the last six months We're talking about the last six months as you as twitter boss hit and twitter twitter um Well shutting down uh our One of our service centers was was quite difficult because it turns out there were Uh, I thought the service centers were redundant But uh, there were in fact a lot of things that were hard-coded to this one server center And so when we shut it down and we actually uh It was quite catastrophic. We lost a lot of functionality. It was sort of really rushed to put it back When was that? And that was around late december early january So that that was the biggest sort of I'm I'm worried the biggest crisis. Yeah. Yeah And what about hard in terms of emotion? I mean, I mean just letting go I mean what were the current the step the levels of staff and what are they now? Um, I think we're Um Around 1500 people at this point and there was I think 70 800 What was it? What was that? So I think it was around just under 8 000 and we're about 1500 right now. Okay, and it Has it been hard letting that many people go? Yeah Not fun at all. It's painful I mean, I guess in in what way do you do you feel like you need to Speak to people when they when when they leave or I mean, it's not physically possible to speak to that many people Is that I mean you talked about that being the most technical bit Is that has has that been sort of the hardest thing emotionally or is it is one of the hardest things certainly? Yeah Okay Hey man, okay Or I'll go first. I won't be able to this time Um, all right chase. What do you got? Uh, elon is just consistently answering these questions and this This guy isn't listening whatsoever. This is one of the worst Interviewers I've seen in a while. Maybe need some more training. Maybe it was just in over his head Maybe at a rough night. I don't know. Maybe they got those shares from the best western. I don't know but uh There's no dialogue if they're up in in most good interviewers Even if they're hard-nosed and hard line, there's dialogue back and forth and not just I need to get back to my phone So I can see the next question here And the only interesting point here that really shines a light on this According to me anyway is where the reporter guy asks about whether elon thinks about Talking to these people as they leave Uh, the company again elon reminds him of the fact that it's not physically possible Like it's just a fact the reporter's response is just a grunt Like that not even processing the response from elon whatsoever Uh, and I think that sums up the entire thing like there's facts and well thought out reasoning and zero, uh reflection In the reporter there is zero dialogue. He has not really consciously processed Almost every single thing that elon has said Scott what do you got? All right. Yeah, I agree with you 100% and all that and I think at this point we're getting back to the Normal baseline for elon that we saw at the beginning So his illustrators are low. They're not as as as as big and and they don't move as fast as they were Before they've slowed down a little bit and his voice tone is lower And so his voice volume and the big change up though is that that clasped hands It's clasped hands that that come in And I think that's more because he's when he's talking about you're talking about firing people You're talking about letting people off all those kind of things. I think that's that's a little stressful for him His feet move forward from under the chair. I think the retreat is over from the bus. He was having earlier And then and then the interviewer says is it hard letting that many people go and he immediately says Yeah, and then we see that little shoulder thing and the shoulder pulls forward. It's not a shrug It doesn't go up it pulls forward. I think it's because it was stressful for him and you know how you feel Um stress in your back. I think it hurts right here. I think that was actually stressful for him Probably not all of them because I'm sure There are some people that wouldn't in this situation would need to be let go but some people that didn't and I'm sure he knew that that there was going to be fallout from that of quote unquote innocent people Who aren't going to have jobs and we're going to be able to to you know feed their families and all that kind of thing So that after the question, um Do you feel you should talk to people instead of talking to people when they're fired? You're right chase it He said no, it's it's physically impossible and what after he does that that's the biggest head nod We see so far that confirmation nod Which is which is one of his like I was saying earlier It's how he finishes his statement says i'm finished or i'm done Right there greg what do you got? Yeah, I don't have a whole lot on this when they're just a handful of things this Chase I think this guy sees this as an assignment not as a get to a have to not get to because if he wanted I think he's somebody told me he's a tech editor or a tech reporter Yeah, holy jeez. Who are you talking to simply the most profound thinker in tech and forever Among people now people are going to light me up about that and say he's not profound Look, he's going to put people on mars And there's a plan there's actually activity going on to do it not a bunch of talking in 2028 or in 30 30 We're going to do it So here's a guy that if you look if I were talking to the guy to have different questions of this not gotchas Why did you let all these people go? Well, there's clear business reasons that you know, they're burning through money So quickly they had four months to live and he goes into that he's clear He's very clear in his approach. I've read that often people who have autism are very literal in their understanding of questions And that probably is exactly how he responded. Well, I can't not I would like to have and but it's just physically impossible I'm going to stop right here and just say the last my favorite thing in this entire piece This tells you the guy didn't do his homework is he tries to use silence To get the guy to talk more To a guy who can't read social cues That tells you didn't prepare well mark what you got Yeah, look if you've made it this far congratulations because it's now just exhausting Watching this interview because I think you're right chase. It is it's terrible. It's just embarrassingly terrible I think now the interview you're seeing kind of scratching not only it is stomach area But a little further down more towards his crotch. He's now kind of I think feigning disinterest in what should be potentially extraordinary interview Because what an opportunity to have to have must whatever you think of him What an opportunity to be able to question this person Now here's the problem is that is that well one of the problems Is that the interviewer keeps looking at his list of questions and I'll tell you this for certain You won't get information out for people with a list of questions. It just won't happen Why is that the case it's because human beings and human behavior and psychology is complex It's not simple. It's not even complicated. It's complex. Which means it's a constant dance between you and the other person and all the actions and interactions and past interactions and potential future interactions That are going on. It is fascinatingly complex and therefore a linear set of questions is a good start I'm not saying don't have a bunch of questions really good start But if you're really playing into the complexity of it You will leave those questions at some point and he doesn't seem to be able to in fact later on in this interview He can't even remember whether he asked him the regret question or not So he's he's lost even in his own list. It's a complete disaster. You know, if you can learn anything from this just understand It's complex. You can't come you can come with with a simple strategy But know that you're going to give up your strategy once the complexity starts and get dancing With that person and that would be such a fascinating interview, which unfortunately we don't get to see. Hey, that's all I got on this one one of those tape replays um What's the most difficult thing you've had to do was the hardest thing you've had to do In my whole life in the last six months. We're talking about the last six months as you as Twitter boss it and Twitter Twitter Well shutting down our One of our service centers was was quite difficult because it turns out there were I thought the service centers were redundant But there were in fact a lot of things that were hard-coded to this one server center and so when we shut it down we actually uh It was quite catastrophic. We lost a lot of functionality. It was sort of really rushed to put it back When was that? And that was around late december or early january So that that was the biggest sort of I'm I'm worried biggest crisis. Yeah. Yeah And what about hard in terms of emotional? I mean how it means is letting go What were the current the levels of staff and what are they now? um, I think we're Um Around 1,500 people at this point and there was I think 70 800 What was that? So I think it was around just under 8,000 and we're about 1500 right now. Okay, and Has it been hard letting that many people go? Yeah They're fun at all. It's painful I mean, I guess in in what way do you do you feel like you need to speak to people when they when they leave or I mean, it's not physically possible to speak to that many people Hmm Is it has that I mean you talked about that been the most technical bit Is that has has that been sort of the hardest thing emotionally or is it it's one of the hardest things certainly? Yeah Just one more thing All right, well mark, what do you see so far? What do you think? Well, here's what here's what I think I hope we can Do this again sometime and have a look at elon musk But not being interviewed by this particular character I think what we have seen so far is some true emotion Some feeling some ideas of ethics some ideas around leadership from him Whether you like them or not whether you think he's a cool guy or not. I think we did get Somewhere into who this person is but not as far as you could get with a really good interview I'd like to see that really good interview if you know of one Like let us know down below what you think is a great musk interview and let's take a look at that Chase chase. What do you think? I think we should bring him on the show That's what I think you should do but This whole thing is a great example of a person elon who openly acknowledges his social mask And his personal difficulties Uh talking with another person who isn't even aware that they're faking it And this person's behavior is very clearly Trying to control mitigate and manage how they're being perceived and trying to convince you that there's no mask at all Trying to pretend like there's not a mask and pretending perfection Like we've said many times or i've said many times in the videos that we've done and Elon does not care about pretending to be perfect. He's very open about you know all the flaws Even when his rockets crash and stuff go up in space. He'll he posted himself Uh on social media. It's an interesting Mix here. Greg. What do you think so far? Yeah, what I love about this so far Is there's a clear baseline and we can see discomfort and agitation when the issue isn't clear and he's responding off the cuff And I call that responsive you can see that but he also has a clear baseline where he's thinking through a process We saw that he frames an argument He presents acceptable facts before he closes that argument If you don't contribute then you're accepting his facts and he nods as he's doing it That's pretty common for CEOs and people who are executives. Remember executive means action bias Just by its nature. So a person's going to be more motivated to do that One of the interesting things that I tried to think about is those last three clips are about motivation They really are they're about what made him buy twitter because you believe it's going to be for truth Would you be willing to sell it just to anybody and then the last couple were about why did you do this? Do you have any regrets? So I looked up a couple of quotes from him and one of them says I'm motivated motivated by curiosity more than anything And just desire to think about the future and not be sad And what that made me think of chase is something you say always That people are doing their best not to be what they were when they were a child And I read he had an excruciating childhood including being beaten up. They called him bookish, you know, South African phrase But he was beaten up thrown down concrete stairs all kinds of stuff in his youth So he doesn't want that and the last one would be he said if you want the future to be good You must make it so take action to make it good and it will be when he was asked what to say to young people That says a lot about what a person's character is Especially when we bond at those last three pieces So I think maybe we have a tony stark and not alexa lothar scott. What do you got? All right I think this was awesome because we're seeing somebody who is so smart Talk to somebody who's who's probably just average intelligence And I think it went on long enough for us to see what he's really like when he laughs and gets the shits and giggles I I think we actually saw who he was I don't think we got to see him use his brain power To even a little bit of it when dealing with this guy when answering questions I don't think I don't think he he went up In the in the the important parts of his brain that that solve all his problems And these were just simple little problems. He was solving the things that this guy was presenting him with So for me, that's the letdown not be not seeing him actually going and digging into something if this guy had had interviewed tesla Nikola tesla It would have been it would have been the same thing He wouldn't know what it questions to ask and you wouldn't have seen tesla be really You know, you wouldn't have gotten the essence of how smart he was and you're not getting the essence of how how smart Uh, elon musk is because this guy doesn't know how to ask the questions that would do that So that that got on my last nerve because he's got an opportunity Not only for to show everybody In the world, you know, look at this guy. You let's see what he would see what he's like He didn't get to do it for himself. He didn't care enough for himself to go Geez, this guy's like one of the smartest dudes in the whole wide world. You know, so it's a scout on the planet I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna this is gonna be great. I bet he didn't lay up at night that night before that going I'm gonna ask this. I'm gonna find out what he thinks about that I'm just gonna go in and talk about twitter Granted it was about twitter, but I mean he didn't get he didn't sidetrack anywhere and get anything good in there We didn't get to see him think Yeah, so that that bothers me that really bothered me. All right, fellas. Thanks. This is another good one and we'll see you next time