 Chair Jones-Carter. We're ready to get started whenever you're ready It is 4 30 p.m. And I'm calling this meeting of the design review board to order Recording secretary, please call roll board member birch board member cook Board member lip-tack here board member Sharon Present board member with rich here vice chair Weigel Here chair Jones-Carter present let the record reflect that all board members are present item to approval minutes July 6 2023 draft minutes. Does anyone have any changes to the minutes? Seeing none the July 6 minutes are approved as amended Recording secretary. Do we have any public comment for item 2? If you're attending in person and wish to make a comment on item 2, please make your way to the podium I don't see anyone making their way to the podium If you're attending via zoom and wish to make a comment on item 2, please raise your hand Chair Jones-Carter. I don't see any hands raised Okay, great. Thank you item 3 public comment. We are now taking public comment on item 3 Non-agenda matters This is the time when any person may address the board on matters not related on this agenda But which are within the subject matter jurisdiction of this committee Recording secretary, can you please provide instructions to the public? If you're attending in person and wish to make a comment on non agenda matters Please make your way to the podium. I don't see anyone making their way to the podium If you're attending via zoom and wish to make a comment on non agenda matters, please raise your hand Chair Jones-Carter. There are no hands raised public comment is closed item for board business statement of purpose zoning code chapter 20-52 point 030F project review The review authority shall consider the location design site plan configuration and the overall effect of the proposed project on surrounding properties and the city in general Review shall be conducted by comparing the proposed project to the general plan any applicable specific plan applicable zoning code standards and requirements Consistency of the project within the city's design got design guidelines architectural criteria for special areas and other applicable city requirements I am 4.2 board member reports. Are there any board member reports? I think Vic has one Yes, I do. Thank you. This is from the waterways advisory committee Which met on July 27th? in person at the Colgan Creek restoration project and we walked Colgan Creek we saw We saw phase 2 which has just been completed Which is the upper part and then we walked along phase 3 Which hasn't been started yet, but is about to be started and we walked through phase 3 all the way down to phase 1 So they restored the creek in an unusual order for for very good reasons and it The leader of the walk was Steve Brady who's the senior environmental specialist first Santa Rosa water we it was it was fascinating and that the differences between the the creek as Completed in phase 2 and the creek waiting for phase 3 It was so clear what the differences were because Steve was explaining everything and why things were gonna You know happened the way they did and what was going to happen next so I Learned a lot the I think I think it was incredibly good for the committee to be out there together Actually looking at creeks rather than in a room talking about creeks So I look forward to our next field trip, but very successful I think what what is happening in at Colgan Creek? Thank you Recording secretary. Do we have any public comment on board on item 4.2 board member reports? I don't see anyone making their way to the podium Again, if you have a public comment for item 4.2 board member reports, please raise your hand if you're attending via zoom Chair Jones Carter. There are no hands raised. Okay. Thank you Item 4.3 other we have none and Item 5 department reports Do you have a report to make sure Good afternoon chair and members of the board just a quick report We won't be having our August 17th meeting because we have no items ready So plan to have that night free And then additionally you may have heard the city has released its draft General plan update. So this is a really important document that takes several years to create and requires a lot of Community engagement and also comment by our various decision makers so it is Fairly close to being completed at this point And so the the team of planners that's working on it does plan to bring it before this board in the month of September I believe so just To make you aware that should be an exciting item to hear and comment on and that concludes my report Thank you Do we have any public comment, I don't see anyone making their way to the podium and there are no hands raised via zoom Thank You public comment is closed Item 6 statements of the abstention. Do we have any rate? Item 7 consent items. There are none Item 8 scheduled items we're moving on to the first scheduled item a Public hearing for cirrus community project culinary facility design review zero Apollo way dr 22-046 Presented and I hope I say your name correctly Shh help me out here Such nor such no, you can call me nor nor. Thank you I'm gonna ask for as ex parte to close disclosures before the presentation. Does anybody have any I Received a letter from Mike Thompson supporting the project and Asking for the design review board's approval Anyone would like to read the letter Do we have to do have to scan it? Yes that Mike Thompson. Sorry. Yes to be clear Congressman Mike Thompson. Yes So do we have to read this or scan it to get it in the record? We're checking because nor mention that she believes maybe this was uploaded into late correspondence So we can confirm that Otherwise, we'll find a way to make it part of the record Okay, I'm just gonna read it to myself then okay, and we'll pass it down All right Would you like to begin with your presentation nor? Yes, sorry. Just give me a second to share my screen Thank you Good afternoon chair Jones Carter and members of the design review board The project before you is for a culinary facility by the series community project group Located at zero Apollo way The project is a new culinary facility, which will be two stories and approximately 19,500 square feet It would be located on a one and a half acre site and will include a bio attention area an edible garden and an outdoor courtyard The series community project group is an organization that delivers medically tailored meals and They plan to implement a youth development volunteer program Here's an aerial view of the site. It's currently vacant With access to utilities and there are about six trees along the Apollo way frontage To the north there are warehouse retail uses to the east there are warehouse and office uses and to the west There are medical offices a brief project history the project was applied for in October 2022 in April a notice of application was distributed and in July the notice of Caring was distributed The general plan land use designation is business park and the zoning is also business park the project meets the definition for manufacturing processing light in the zoning code as there will be There will be manufacturing food and beverage products on site and this use is consistent with both the general plan and the zoning code The project will implement several goals of the general plan as it includes superior site and architectural design and implements a wide range of industries in the business park area the site plan architectural plans and Landscape plan are of superior visual quality they're consistent with a general plan and zoning code as well as the design guidelines and they will provide a Desirable environment for staff to enjoy and therefore staff is able to make all of the required findings for design review the application also requests a parking reduction and Staff is able to make all of the required findings for a parking reduction as well Much of the staffing will consist of youth volunteers who will be using alternate modes of transportation to get to and from the site and The general plan requires 350 square feet per employee Whereas the site has over 300 swift 300 sorry over 830 square feet per employee So the intensity of the site is much less than the general plan anticipates for the site also sorry the project also meets Many of the goals of the design guidelines the project is of superior design It provides amenities for its employees and the landscaping blends seamlessly with the architecture Here's a quick look at the site plan As well as the landscape plan you can see in the rear There's a courtyard as well as the edible garden and to the east there are Biorotention areas Here we can see the elevations as well as the proposed materials and I've also included some of the architectural renderings This project qualifies for an infill exemption under the California Environmental Quality Act and It meets all of the criteria for the infill exemption as you can see on this slide Staff did receive several letters of support for the project That are commending the series community project group for their ongoing efforts to assist patients in need and create Employment and volunteer opportunities and there are no unresolved issues as a result of this project Therefore it is recommended by the planning and economic development department that the design review board grant design review for the series community Project culinary facility at zero Apollo way For any questions or comments? This is my contact information And I believe the applicant team has two presentations to give as well. Thank you Got the green light good afternoon chair Jones Carter and Board members My name is Daryl Berlin and I am the series community project owners representative And I'm just going to do a brief introduction to The two presentations that we will have in person and we'll have a third presentation by zoom so We first up will be Deborah Romeli from the series community project She's the director of development and communications affairs, and she'll just give you a broad overview of Series and it's work in the community Good afternoon chair Jones Carter and board members. Thank you for welcoming us to this space today I've started at series in 2010 as a volunteer and have risen to be a member of staff Series is a 16 year old non-profit that serves Sonoma and Marin counties with a robust youth development program and An adult volunteer program and a medically tailored meals program we really see ourselves as a community engagement and Educational organization that has impacts on youth on the adults who volunteer and of course on our clients Those are the people that receive our medically tailored meals to support them as they're navigating One or more serious illnesses that were that Respond well to a medically tailored diet We've grown a lot in the past few years from 79,000 meals a year in 2019 to this year projected to deliver 220,000 meals That was a large part due to co vid, but we've been growing steadily even before then when we find ourselves now With three kitchens two of which are leased Putting our production capacity at risk and all of our kitchens pretty much maxed out on the ability to grow And we've made a decision and our board is supporting us that it's time to move to a larger Consolidated facility that will allow us to operate more efficiently and effectively to serve our role In the community providing this vital service I also want to mention that we are contracted with the County of Sonoma to provide meals during emergencies So we are the first call when the shell County opens a shelter and we're able to get meals there too Shelter residents many of whom are our most vulnerable community members and are dealing with illnesses we Look are looking at this site and are excited about it because it is midway between our two Santa Rosa and Sebastopol kitchens. We feel it'll be easily accessible for our adult volunteers It's within 15 minutes of six major and diverse high schools Which is a major a big motivation for us. We want series to be accessible for as many teens as possible Currently we involve about a thousand volunteers a year in our work those volunteers Help the people that we serve meals to know that they're not alone Instead of a for-profit business dropping drop shipping meals on their doorstep They receive their meals from a caring community member and when somebody's ill that can be quite isolating And so we know there's a value beyond the meals of just feeling connected and cared for In summary, we hope that you'll look favorably upon our project. We are excited about Locating our main facility in the city of Santa Rosa and partnering with local schools with local health clinics And making a difference in the community. Thank you so much Thank you Debra, I just wanted to there's a tack on just a piece of information on the growth of the meals up to 225,000 the projected growth in you know, three to five years is 600 to 800,000 meals per year. So thus the importance of this culinary facility Next I wanted to introduce our architect for the project Dan Westfall with O'Malley Wilson and Westfall Good afternoon Jones Carter and board You've probably seen all this before but I just want to give a little bit of narratives to understand the project of massing and Circulations and orientations a little bit We we basically have Entry Southern Park a lot you can enter and exit on that side, but once you turn right at the loops and you exit out at the upper end That's to keep traffic from crossing deliveries, etc We also have on the southern side. We've got a water Water agency easement. We have to have a little driveway there. So it starts to constrain where we put things on the site And then on the north side is is basically our deliveries you know, so any sort of deliveries come in and back in and stay on site and Then on the south west side, we have you know, the meeting garden space Then garden continues going north and the whole north side is kind of the utility area including going into the landscaping we've got Three main we've got three entrances. We've got Volunteer entry area which is on the parking lot side the east side there on the south side We have a client services entry and then we have the main entry for the main public Let's see I think that is okay next slide So I'll just show you a little bit of the inside of the building I know it's not as it was critical, but it helps explain the massing The brown areas really the public areas when they have you know trainings and event You know those sorts of things all the the pea green area. That's all kitchen function. The blue is circulation and two green areas that are to the Above the gray area. That's all volunteer Volunteer break rooms and lockers as well as volunteer program managers, and then all the gray area is for the the Client services next slide and So the upstairs As you can see the heart the kitchen is the heart of everything everything starts around the heart Everywhere you're at there's a connection to the to the kitchen. I'm sorry the connection to the kitchen Upstairs is all the administrative offices, and they they you know have a visual connection again to the kitchen Next slide Okay, this this is just kind of gives it a context of where it is on on the side and the massing of the site We enter to the left there's parking area there where you can circulate and come out to the north And the garden public garden areas to the south and as long as well as the main entry Next Here I'm just showing this so I can talk a little bit about the materials on the lower portion The front the front corner that we're seeing there from the entry around to the volunteer entry to the main entry That's all you know down low. You can touch it. It'll be natural wood You know something tactile feels real you have some depth and texture to it And then above that, you know be horizontal more horizontal wood siding and then on the upper massing they'll be Bored and bat and then when we get above the windows on the second floor goes horizontal And then it starts to horizontal siding starts to break apart for the mechanical screen just to give a soft edge to the sky next This this is just showing Coming out the utility side of the building and just trying to really get visual cues that as people are driving by They're not thinking this is where you pull in because it's You know much much less visual cues that that's any sort of entry or public area next This is looking from the the outdoor garden area just into the main public area In main entry and you can see the kitchen in the background of the main meeting room There's in the very front and then there is some training outdoor training area and stuff To the north there we see those little the picnic tables above below the veranda next And then this is just showing more from the utility side of the building towards the garden in the main building and massing You know how we've stepped step the main main portion is back as much as we could next and This is just showing again that connection of the garden to the public spaces, which are very important Next And this is just coming into the main entry and we're really trying to get some changes of texture scale and Visual cues that that is the main entry not other entries. I think next And I'm only going to show you a little bit of the inside just so you kind of get an idea of what drives Massive on the outside. So this is the main entry. You're coming in you know tactical woodfill juxtaposing against the the main meeting room tower on the left that has corrugated iron and next And then this is basically looking back towards that main meeting room You can see everything is connected to the kitchen and to the meeting room And it's open to the upstairs in that section as well. So everything's connected there next And then this is the main meeting room training room And again a connection to the kitchen a connection to the garden, which is very important for the client And then this is just showing the you know the heart of the building that's driving everything everything rings around it And the upstairs offices are connected Visually as well to the kitchen and it's open as much as possible with the youth volunteers and everything and you know Being a communal space. Thanks. Okay Lastly is we wanted to have our landscape designers Eric Arneson and the hall so batty from topo topo feel a right. It's always a tough word to say And hopefully they are on zoom. So hopefully that technology we can bring them up Eric you've been promoted a panelist. You may share your screen Can't hear you Eric. Thank you. All right. Thank you Daryl Making this great technology work and thank you chair Jones Carter and the board So I'll be presenting the landscape design for the series project. So when approaching this Project, can we get the slide please? Or can I share my okay, gotcha You see the plan here Yes, yes All right, so when approaching this landscape design we wanted to create a sequence of Spaces that wholeheartedly represent series. That's the wonderful organization that it is We wanted spaces that not only represented the the healing and educational properties also the culinary agricultural Aspects that series has to offer So we essentially segmented the design into three different zones. So the first being the streetscape and parking Which would be comprised of Shade trees such as native oaks and then understory plantings of native grasslands and Smaller shrubs and to somewhat represent what this land may have looked like Before development and then when we get into the interior courtyards the open spaces of the project We wanted It's segmented into two entrances one would be the pedestrian entrance Where it tees off into the interior of the building and then on the left it would go into the Exterior courtyard space and then there's also the PUE access which instead of being a utilitarian aspect on the site we're going to turn it into a Informal bachi cord exterior space and then that would flow seamlessly into that Courtyard space which would be shaded with California and native sycamores Which are a great tree because they would provide shade in the summer months and Then they would lose their leaves and be deciduous in the fall And provide passive solar for not only the exterior space but also the southern end of the building So this space would also have informal seating Smallest pockets for smaller groups of people and then larger groups for outdoor educational outdoor classroom environments such as this circular deck and then there would also be a Outdoor meeting room flanked by these two olive trees here And this would essentially be an extension of the interior meeting room inside the building optimizing an indoor outdoor use of This facility and then that would bring people out into this culinary garden Which would be comprised of a series of informal seating areas more formal seating areas as well as raised beds Um, which would some would be fixed and then where the pui is there would be non-fixed planting um planter pots that could that could have fruit trees and planters so the pui The utility easement is not physically occupied permanently And the materiality of this project you want to go as natural as possible using a lot of wooden materials as well as the ground plane of the courtyard and culinary areas would be predominantly decomposed granite and permeable pavers so optimizing the permeability on site And then around the perimeter of the building there would be a cast-in-place concrete pathway optimizing the accessibility around the perimeter of the building So here's several views that uh dan already went through but just to go through them really quickly the top right view is the From polo way looking to the north So showing that native landscape that would be on the front edge of a polo way And then on the bottom right Is that interior or that interior exterior? Relationship between the building and then that meeting room that pulls you out into the culinary area with the the plantings edible plantings here then the top left would be that entrance where You have the the gated entrance for pedestrian access into the courtyard and then to the right would be the entrance into the interior lobby of the facility And the bottom left is this really natural exterior space that the Employees and series and also the visitors and students that will be visiting the space can occupy And hopefully this um project will touch a lot of lives and community in the area So we'll hardly support you guys Supporting it. So thank you so much Thanks, Eric I'm not sure where this fits in but we had to To Two people with series that wanted to make some comments. So I'm not sure and they were just going to zoom in on that So Not sure when that's most appropriate Um, they can go ahead and do that now They raise their hand on zoom then they can be promoted to speak What are their names? So, uh, Joe Rogan Rogan Rogoff, thank you And uh And lianna baltonata Liana you want to go first? Sure Um, can everybody see me all right? Yes Okay, um, hello everyone My name is lianna baltonata and i'm a team leader Volunteer and board member for series and I would like to speak on with you for my experiences with this organization So over the two and a half years I've observed not only the impactful work that we've brought to the community But the importance of team involvement and leadership I work to exemplify this through the team volunteer program Where I've become an advocate for people in need as well as experience immense personal growth The work that we do has re-established my faith in humanity The volunteers and staff at series thrive to better well to better the well-being of hundreds of individuals Not only to series provide healthy medically tailored meals But comfort and care are incorporated into the service we deliver Individuals suffering from chronic illnesses don't have to go through this period of life alone From the nutritious healing meals to the handmade cards and bouquets These patients are genuinely receiving you up most parents Along with the contributions that the organization has made towards the community Teams like myself have also learned valuable life lessons in working through the kitchen and garden programs The ingredients of the food we deliver are grown sustained and harvested in our own garden by us teams We play a role in prepping cooking and packaging these meals with love and care Not only has this program taught me skills in gardening gardening and kitchen procedures It has also taught me to appreciate our value in numbers We as an organization are much more vital to this community together than apart Working cohesively with other like-minded individuals in order to create hundreds of nourishing meals Is something that I will cherish for the rest of my life And over the years I've also learned to appreciate the value of the clean healthy diet This is encouraging to incorporate nutritious and organic food into my own meals As Ceres has taught me that food genuinely is medicine Therefore, I believe it's essential for the community to understand and maintaining a healthy body for a better future Is possible through a well-balanced and nutrition-rich diet For example prior to my involvement with Ceres I've been severing my eating choices And though I understood the importance of a balanced diet My involvement with Ceres has definitely opened my eyes to not only its vitality and living a healthy life But also the methods by which I can implement this healthy eating habit And overall Ceres community project is an organization that is fundamentally working to share the message That food truly is medicine And over time the mantra will be ingrained in communities everywhere However, this all starts with the leadership and initiative of younger generations Not only is Ceres feeling through food, but they're cultivating the leaders and citizens of the future Thank you Thank you Hello, and thanks for the opportunity to speak on behalf of the Ceres community project. My name's Joe Rogoff I've served on the Ceres board for just about six years now and co-chaired it for the last three I retired from my role as president of Pacific Northwest and western canada region of Whole Foods Market in 2016 And was grateful and Catherine couch called to ask me to join the board I'd partnered with Ceres while working and living in Sonoma county and admired the mission But even more admired how they went about their work with diligence with responsibility and with respect And even more how they clearly defined their purpose and pursued it They weren't satisfied with serving the needs of acute necronically ill clients who came to them But pushed for broader understanding of how medically tailored meals made from the best possible ingredients Made with care and with love Could help people heal To that end they've been engaged with regional statewide and national efforts to gain recognition That food is medicine That push has resulted in multiple pilot programs That have confirmed efficacy and led to medically tailored meals being approved in california as a covered medical expense The potential for quality of life improvement for those suffering from cancer heart disease diabetes And other lifestyle diseases is immense What's unique about Ceres approach is who makes the meals how the food is sourced who gets the meals And what the food is No other provider trains teens to grow the food and gardens and work in the kitchen to create these meals The effect of both of those activities is profound Many teams as you heard from liana pursue careers in nutrition Most have better diets and continue community service as adults We know this because we track As to who gets the food for Ceres, it's the whole family Those who get ill and are the meal providers for their families often don't have the energy or the stomach to prepare meals So we send them to the whole household It's both of physical and psychological relief and we often hear families change their diets as a result The meals are free to households up to twice the national poverty level Are specifically tailored to the needs of the client and are made of organic whole and locally sourced products whenever possible All of this makes a difference and none of this is done by any other meal service Getting this new facility means that Ceres can quadruple the number of people they serve and reduce its waiting list It means accessibility to students from lc allen rosalind university prep Santa Rosa high and many other high schools within 15 minute drive It means expanded services and nutrition counseling and career assistance for teams And it means another 600,000 meals a year Keeping many families nourished while recovering from illness So I hope you recognize both the accomplishments of Ceres and its potential The energy talent financial responsibility and systems to enable exponential growth are there And so is the sense of purpose to be an ever more important part of a healthy community Thank you very much Thank you, joe And that completes Ceres community project presentation. Um, just to let the board know that I do have Um the civil engineer of record on call and ready to answer any questions along with W trans who did the traffic study? So if there are any questions on those Hopefully I can Get them on a text and get them to call in and answer it and provide any responses So thank you for your time Thank you I'd like to um open public hearing on this item recording secretary. Do we have any public comment? If you're attending via zoom and wish to make a comment, please raise your hand Chair Jones Carter, there are no hands raised Thank you. I'd like to close public comment and at this time we'll take questions from the board for the staff or applicant um Let's start down here with mike. Um, I do have a couple questions about the traffic And what was stated in the staff report, so maybe we can try with staff and if it's not But the traffic study and the staff report said that the study Says all youth volunteers will take alternative transportation And I just wanted to ask what that means. What does alternative transportation mean? and then If you know the age of the youth volunteers Uh, and um, if that was considered when doing the traffic study and then My what I heard in the staff report about the traffic study was that this is just basically a replacement of Or the the the intensity or the number of trips will basically be the same as what the current facility does um, but in the presentation from That applicant it said this is combining three facilities into one and so Not a replacement or is a replacement. So I guess I'm that's more about traffic um regarding the first part of your question, um The project description that was submitted with the application did say that It will be a majority youth group out of all of the volunteers Um, I don't know if somebody from the series team can better describe um, maybe like what percent of the volunteers would be youths And the alternate modes of transportation would be buses or pickup drop-off Oh and bicycling um, yeah, I'll I'll start um and maybe debora can chime in um the On the w-trans report. There's a um a graph that has the um a series projected trip expectations And um there's The key here is um two to three In the afternoon. There is um 30 daily volunteers that Figure is inclusive of adult volunteers that would be helping out throughout the facilities The kitchen doing some trainings that also includes the potential of Vehicle trips by youth volunteers the youth volunteers and again debora you can correct me if I'm Correct on this is I believe any Anywhere from 13 to 18 year olds so there are some youth that would Use a vehicle For themselves to drive there and that's inclusive of that 30 But the majority of youth Are not driving and so they get either dropped off and picked up by a parent or a friend or they carpool Or in some cases yet bike or use public transportation So I think the key there is that that 30 number is inclusive of the adult and and and uh youth volunteers Okay, yeah Just so everybody hears that a slight correction 14 to 19 year olds. Thanks I think that's what you just said is what I would think with uh 14 to 16 17 year olds Is that they're getting rides with their parents or Um, so I just is that Taking into account with this traffic report. Yes. Yeah, absolutely in that in that 30 Uh, and then there's also another one where we have um delivery volunteers on the three to four hour period And that is uh, that would be the maximum again. What we did there was um, the delivery volunteers are adult volunteers there. Um, they are the Delivery angels as we call them because they are picking up the prepared meals and sending them out Door to door to the um to the clients And that happens again, correct me if i'm wrong. I believe that happens one to two times a week right now Um, that will probably increase As we ramp up to um more meals per year And that that's it needs to be on the mic so it can be captured by the zoom and so everyone can hear so Four deliveries a week out of our um two Sonoma county kitchens Um, they're currently on Wednesday mornings and afternoons and friday mornings and afternoons and I think obviously With that from going from 200,000 to 800,000 meals a year That will increase slowly as we increase our volume in meals Okay, because that now is going to be a follow-up question is if there was stated, you know, there's a pretty big growth plan to the future did the traffic report um analysis account for that um I would like to see um, so dalyne Whitlock uh was um, she has been observing the um Proceedings here so is Yeah, we'll get her to to answer some of those questions dalyne if you could answer two questions one is Does your traffic analysis take an account the three facilities? Combining into one and then the second one the 200,000 meals to 800,000 meals growth Sorry just as you started asking your questions I joined as a panelist so I didn't hear any of that because it was restarting Could you please repeat your questions? Yeah, dalyne. I just want to be clear on my two questions one is um Does your traffic analysis? Take into account the growth from 200,000 meals to 800,000 meals And the second is Three facilities that they currently have combining into this one central facility Um There's a traffic analysis take care take account that into account So given the size of the traffic Given the size of the project and the way their trips are distributed over the course of the day There is no operational analysis as part of the traffic study. It has less than 50 peak hour trips There are 50 trips During one off peak hour, but not during either the am or pm peak hour So there is no operational analysis, which means that no we didn't account for the future growth However, I just looked real quick at what those volumes are and um during the peak hours the volumes are relatively low So even with that it still wouldn't exceed the 50 trips an hour Especially some of those are people who are riding a bike or walking or taking transit But uh, you know, it wasn't it was not accounted for but it but also wouldn't affect the the results that we have And I already forgot your second question Uh, just that three facilities going into the same facility So that I mean and again, it's it because of the fact that we're not We're only evaluating what's what's happening at that at that project site Um, it it doesn't really take into account anything that's happening somewhere else Although obviously if they aren't in another building then that gives them the that building will be used for something else um But we were really just looking at uh, what's going to happen at this site with this project as proposed Thank you Do we have two more questions? Sure Um on a different topic. I was looking at the site plan and the architecture um And just a question about why it's proposed the way it is it seems like the The garden is on the the west side of the property And the building comes right up to it with a two-story building Whereas the front so the eastern side of the building Actually, there's a one story and then steps back So why is a step in the front versus a step in the but stepped in the back for a sudden exposure We laid the building out because there's there's a certain mass and you know, we we blocked out You get the kitchen when you bring everything around it There's a certain depth and length of the building that we end up with We orientated that several different ways on the site different areas Um in order to get fire traffic and circulation through the site You know the fronts of parking lots that sets where your building's at Nothing in our uh program drives If if we put all the offices on the front Then they wouldn't have that connection to the kitchen. So it's a it's a functional connection of how things come together And the the back side, you know the garden in the back that also They're they're looking at other sites eventually connecting maybe um, so Future future things they might be doing also Orientate that way Was there a shade study or anything done and just like just I just Wondering is the gardens on the west side? Yeah, I don't get you know afternoon sun, but All morning. It's going to be probably in the shade. Did you guys look at it all? Yeah, we've we've looked at shade and yeah, um, because Yeah, um landscape could probably answer that matter but And last question on that did you consider putting the garden in the front like considering its series and it's all about Farmed up table or farmed up the If if we push the garden to the front We would have a lot more circulation on the site And we start losing garden area very quickly like extremely fast And it also puts it also puts the youth and things out on the street instead of a more private secured quiet area And it would also then force, you know the outdoor meeting room and everything up against the street. It just And and uh fire. Yeah, it's just yeah, we looked a lot of things, but it we quickly lost our garden Okay, and then we've got pretty far We've got a pue in the back as well, right so that push everything forward even crunch you could even more If you circle around around the back and this is just Questions last statement for staff the landscape plans. There's no well-o calculations or you know anything about irrigation except for Just statement, you know, they will comply with the the well-o And then I noticed on the landscape plans as well that Every single filtration, you know biofiltration zone That the civil's proposing has trees in it and that's a pretty difficult thing to do So just kind of go along with previous thoughts and previous meetings about conflicts with utilities and Filtration zones and stuff like that I'm I just I'm concerned that we're going to lose a bunch of trees that we're showing on plans that we're looking at now um Because of required features by the city building department and engineering department, so Question statement, I don't need an answer just that was a thought so i'm done Thank you Ernest I don't have any questions at this time. Thank you Okay, michael Yeah, I wanted to ask about the uh use to the north, um the lot that is to the north of the building Uh current use and zoning of that lot um the zoning is business park and the current Use, um I'm sorry, uh Just need a second the use is classified as warehouse retail Great. Thank you Vic Thank you. I have on number of questions that are Some of them are are actually probably simple, but we had a lot of discussion about the um the youth volunteers not driving themselves and I I don't see a whole lot in the way of bike parking and I and Not just the youth but Other volunteers and people who work there. I know you're only required to have three spaces um But I think that's an undercount so I wonder I wonder Additional bike parking might be available um Or considered All right, I'll just leave that as a question. Um And there are I believe there are Four ev charging spots And I meant to look up. What's the year in which california is saying that you can no longer buy a combined, you know Regular gasoline powered vehicle. So I wonder if four is the right number out of And that's another question out of either 46 45 or 44 parking spaces because like Or possibly 47 I can't actually get to the number of parking spaces, but I'm not I I think can you consider additional ev parking? um I am also wondering about given that it's a kitchen about the The treatment of compostable waste Which is there's going to be a lot of it as a as a you know kitchen facility And it appears to be hidden in with all the other waste in in the enclosure. It just seems to me like there might be I wonder if it could be part of the program about learning about Waste and you know, so it's local food and It goes out to local people and the stuff that's left over Here's what it looks like and here's how we take care of it. So it um, that's a question And my final question At the moment is um I'm looking for a violent the volunteer entry on the east side And I think I'm seeing a single door that goes into the break room. Is that the volunteer entry? Okay, again, it's to be welcoming your volunteers who Major part of the program and the project It could do something a little more generous maybe um Those were my questions Thank you, adam Sure. Hey vick the the evi question is actually a really good one. I think um, I was just recounting this And I think it's kind of a weird zoning slash cbc hiccup So, um, the california building code does not consider ev parking as parking It actually considers them as a fueling station So I just counted this up. It looks like there's only 42 spaces On site unless I miscounted and then there's four ev spaces. So that gets us to 46 So can you verify the count? I just did again. It's a small screen and I'm like, yeah, I'll I'll touch you a little bit So this was done. Um, the this was applied for october the Current cal green standards weren't out yet. So this is all one the statements of how many bike parking We're stating what's required. They've been required because that's what code says, right? So I've got to state what the minimum is Um, so those are what those are um, the ev charging stations Uh, in the current code There's a piece there that now says they're charging stations, but they as far as zoning they count for parking So we're into like in the new codes. They've addressed some of these things That will have to be addressed and I and there will be more charging stations based on current code. It's just it's just exploding um, the fall, you know, so then the um volunteer entry the part of that is Um, you know, we've got the little canopy and stuff there the volunteers know where they're going the public doesn't It gets confusing if we put a grand entry where people know where they're going in the front It gets confusing when the program takes the public Around the corner to the gardens and that function of space. So it's just a matter would be confusing if if you get two grand of an entry for the volunteers Um, visual cues start getting really messy Um, the composting I'll I'll answer the first part of that and let him finish on that But yes, I have to show composting because required by the state So we've got the three the three bins because that's what's required. I have to show that Um, so whether that's what they're doing with the composting or not, that's what I have to do under under those laws and codes, thanks and I'll I dare I'll answer the rest of the composting and um On the bike Offering up more bike spaces. Absolutely. We could do that. There's there's quite a nice area out there to offer up more Bike lock space And we definitely want to encourage Uh green methods of transportation walking and biking and I think when you put more spaces out it is it invites that So we currently have a robust youth development program that includes curriculum So every time a teen is on a shift they take a half hour break to discuss something a curriculum item That's related to our work and one of those curriculum items is composting We actually compost all of our kitchen scraps With the exception of things like meat in our existing gardens So we have a garden in santa rosa and a one and a half acre garden in sabastopol And that's a ongoing part of um of you know, how do we build soil and why does healthy soil matter? So Great idea and we're already doing it Thank you Before we move on to adam. I think urnist has a question Yeah, if I could just piggyback really quick, um To what vick was asking about so I know that the eb chargers are Caught on the green building code of how many we need to provide Is your intent that you are going to provide the chargers? Or are you just intending to stub it up and have future charging stations? Yeah, no, we're required to have the four so those will be installed. Um, we certainly as Dan mentioned as the code um evolves we will provide per code what is needed Our intent is to work with our civil and our energy Our summit energy summit electrical to provide conduits To stub up and to have more capacity Underground in place So that's that's our intent. Um, I can't give you a number of how many spaces that would be but yeah, certainly that's our intent adam Thank you chair And uh, I guess I just to start I wanted to thank everyone for very thorough presentations and for the applicant team for Very thorough package and for having the whole team here and everything and and all the presentations as well So thank you for that and planer bees. I thank you very much for the presentation as well I'm gonna I I think all my questions have been covered so far, so I'm gonna Pass it on Thank you chair. Um I want to echo what adam said great presentation. Thank you Um, so I have a number of questions and they're I'm probably mostly for dan um Is there architectural in nature? Uh, so the trash enclosure um, it looks like there's I get, you know, three openings in the back obviously for ease of access into that My most recent experience with ehs You're not allowed to do that. You have to have the trash enclosure completely enclosed so To prevent rodents and all that kind of stuff, so Then If that's the case, then I'll have to close it. Okay. Yeah Yeah, I'm pretty sure I thought it was just the containers had to be closed and covered No, yeah, yeah, it's in the cal retail food code. Yeah, it's in the cal food code I just yeah, I'm screen it. Yeah, I think you can either probably like put a sliding door or screener That's probably what you're gonna have to end up doing. Um, and I think that'd be okay I just was more of a question what you were thinking um, okay on your floor plan Grid between grid one and two which I guess is the west side I'm assuming that's like a wash station like a wash and pack station On the outside for the the garden and whatnot. Oh, yeah, okay cool I was just trying to understand that. Yeah, so that's cool. That's that's fantastic. Actually, that's a really great use of that space Bring it inside It looks like the restrooms are designed as all all gender restrooms Or you know unisex or you want to call they're they're all gender and yeah, jesse if I have had conversations about this It's very important for the youth volunteers and their clientele it is Plumbing code says else wise state law for dsa and in stuff Allow it they give the exception for yeah Yeah, so I I've had this conversation. Yeah. No, I think it's great. No, I think it's fantastic I think it's a really smart design choice and I wonder, you know, jesse can I think there's some the change potentially coming from dsa from a guidance perspective They from what I understand. So I that would help out. I mean because I think yeah You're over lavatory right if it's unisex So anyway, I think it's really great. I just wanted to confirm it was all gender. That's awesome On the exterior of the building so you have all this stained wood. I'm assuming it's all on a rain Oh, sorry plumbing was the plumbing question The the horizontal wood. Yeah, it's is it all on a rain screen or? Um, we're not 100 sure on that. It's going to be thermally the lower band is going to be a thermally stabilized wood so it kind of gets a little bit of a um, you know Browning to it so so it'll be a nap. It'll it won't be a stain over the top of it Okay, yeah, I'm just I guess I'm just concerned. It's like I think the materiality is fantastic I guess I'm just a little concerned about durability long term. We'll have to you know, obviously we're gonna have capillary breaks We're just not sure if it's going to be rain screen or a capillary system Okay, and then I noticed on your elevations You've got these brackets and it just says gal steel. I'm assuming they're painted gal steel At the parapet at the top. Yeah, there'll be a line. All right. So that paint color will then be The same as the trellis columns fascia gutters all kind of be that same brown. Okay, cool. Yeah It was hard to tell from the renderings and the documents the roof type. Is it built up single ply? It's probably gonna be a pvc There's a lot of equipment it goes up there. Okay. Yeah, just you know getting around all some kind of single-ply system Yeah, yeah, pvc tpo dpbm. Yeah, that'll allow you whatever you want to go. Yeah cost driven correct um You guys actually answered that question about the permeable paving It's on your mind So I heard a lot of stuff about the 20 foot pue I And maybe you can just I thought are plantings allowed in the pue? or I remember Something about that could be could clarify that would be good You can go ahead take that's not trees So there's yeah, there's a number of pues In circling the project. So there's the 20 foot At the apollo frontage That will have You know trees and landscaped out what the landscape our designer was commenting on is there's a 10 foot pue for drain excuse me for Yeah for drains and We are not allowed to put permanent fixtures or foundations or anything in in that 10 foot so in the West side of the outdoor there is going to be Planted some planted citrus and other trees. Yeah, I'm seeing that now. So thank you for clarifying that. I just there's yeah I mean you're kind of hemmed in by pues kind of stinks Okay So I saw a note for eight foot fence But I didn't see any eight foot fence design And in order to go to an eight foot fence we need to see the eight foot fence design Because the zoning code only it permits a six foot fence with a two foot trellis Unless I'm wrong and I'm cool. I'm okay with being wrong Um, and so while they're that looking looking that up the only other question I had was it didn't look like there was any sound mitigation in the kitchen. It's a large volume So I was just kind of curious what your plan was on that. I know it's probably it's a design thing But uh interior design that yeah, yeah, we've we've been playing with a lot of auctions there You know now as a size develop we've got a lot of coffers going up into skylights at our angle to help diffuse We we have the the large hood. We're probably gonna There's an acoustical transparent material that we'll probably put around that that we can kind of get a glow and a Backlight out of it to help attenuate a lot of sound They they've got posters that go up up higher and we may do those out of an acoustical material as well to absorb Cool. Yeah, that sounds great. Yeah, I mean the the volumes are I think it actually this is more of a comment. Sorry the volumes in the kitchen actually make it like a really awesome kitchen to work in Which I think is great. So uh, those are all my questions if and if I was right about the fence, let me know It's okay if I'm wrong too The six foot of solid and two foot lattice limit is only for single family dwellings Multifamily dwellings and non residential properties The height for the fence would require design review approval um, so the eight foot is Up to Your approval of the resolution Okay, cool. Yeah, that's what I thought that so thanks for kind of referring that So just me personally since I didn't see a design of the fence in the package we if the If the landscape designer has a plan or if you guys have a plan you could communicate that now and then we could Write a very simple condition around that and so that way you don't have to like Submit new stuff for whatever. It's kind of what I was thinking Can I add to what drew you saying? Sure So yeah, I I didn't I didn't think there was a fence So I didn't see a label that said fence or anything. So I'm I'm surprised here about a fence and um Yeah, it's on uh, it's on sheet l 1.0 and it's uh keynote 20 and it says eight foot tall wooden perimeter fence So in not see I know it's it's a small little thing Because what's great is this project hits so many other of the check boxes, right? It's got a lighting analysis It's got the design of the trash closure. It's got full building the design It's got full landscape design. It's got all this great stuff. And it's just one little thing That does require a deferent, you know A You know an approval of the board so If the board, you know, when we get to conditions if we can provide any Suggestions consider related to the fence design that would be helpful for staff to look at with the building permit Those are all my questions Michael, did you have a follow-up question? Yeah, I'm not not realizing this q&a was the sort of robust discussion I'll just finish my thought on uh, that's okay finish my thought on the Property to the north Things were being piece milled together out here. I'm looking at the elevations and I'm seeing a very The the only elevation that's very under treated is the north elevation I'm going to make make an assumption here That you're guessing that you're going to have a building that's got a mercury wave frontage Backing up to this elevation. So we're going to maybe have a blank wall against a blank wall I'm thinking about our foresighted architecture requirement in the design guidelines for the for the city and that seems like the That seems like the elevation that is that is sort of under under treated So I I'm I'm asking and answering Assuming that this is the back of the building facing the back of another building as a as a reasoning behind not treating that elevation at all Yeah, the why don't you keep it simple and not confusing it's a it is it is the um Loading area, you know, it's it's where stuff comes into the refrigerator leaves the trash and closures back there The stair tower is treated which is on that that corner But yeah, it's it's not we're not making anything fussy up back there. So I would I would also like to add that the property To the north west is a vacant lot and only the northeast corner that property has a warehouse retail use I just wanted to I just wanted to make the comment around foresighted architecture design guidelines and I I think I mean, I understand the functionality of the of the loading space and You know, I don't I don't know that based on what future development would be that I would necessarily say that You would need to just maybe with some change of color pattern not being more complex or more Not not adding features, but but certainly maybe color blocking or breaking up the space a little overdoing that can be Can be you know a little a little It's not always the right thing to do either, but I just wanted to make the comment Does anyone you have anything else before I go? Well, most of my questions have been answered. Um, I do Had some concerns about the garden placement as well being an avid gardener and I think there's going to be a great deal of shade On that space, especially when you're going to have a retractable Shade, I think that's on your outdoor area And that was another point for me is that Is there an opportunity to add any color to that shade? Good And the um vegetable garden or the when you're calling edible garden, is there a drip system in there? I couldn't see it on the plans, but Yeah, that would be uh, it would all be drip and on timers. Okay Um, yeah, I think my bike rack question got answered. Um The other only other question and maybe this is what michael was saying the big white tower It's in the back and the northwest view c204. I believe that's what it's on the plans Is there an opportunity to do something other than just White Yeah, unfortunately, that's how it shows up on the renderings. It it has more material Quality and it's softer than that Yeah, it's corrugated and there's actually Um, we've had to add a little mechanical room Like in that one corner sets wood and what color is it? Natural wood. Oh that the stairs the stair tower right now is corrugated Corrugated metal. Yeah, but we may may change to a wood. I think we're changing to wood I'm confused because this is like done in october and we've been developing we're well into cds on it So, um, do you remember what? Where we're at with it? I think yeah, I don't remember what the material is back there So I guess to clarify what would help is I guess for maybe members of public or anybody else is so on l 2.0 or One of the renderings that shows the the community space The vertical corrugated siding the an agricultural kind of galvanized steel siding that's the same material that's around The stair tower in that Northwest corner correct. Yeah, cool And that's all my questions the We wanted to Show a rendering just to help maybe discuss the fence item So we'll pull that up really quick Um So there the fence is not Around the whole perimeter of the site the fence starts At that junction between the public entry and the entry into the outdoor space That is going to be a lower four foot Mesh Steel Sort of the hog panel look and that will will more than likely be the rusted look And that transitions to a wooden fence And I don't believe that wooden fence is eight foot tall I I could be wrong about that my sense was that it was going to be a six foot tall fence, but I need to check with our designer on that But the wooden fence could be in a number of different textures. And so I would sort of echo That we would look towards you to give us some conditions On that height and materiality and then we can work that out with the planning staff All right. Thank you Would someone like to make a motion for a resolution? I'd be happy to So, uh, I would like to make a motion approving Uh, the designer of uh approving Oh my gosh, I I'm like lost all of a sudden Yeah approving the series community project culinary facility Uh designer review at zero apollo a dr 22-046 Uh, and so this would be the resolution of the design review board of the city center osa granting design review approval for series community project Culinary facility located at zero apollo way apns 035 dash 490 dash 030 and 035 dash 490 dash 3 031 file number dr 22 dash 046 and wave the reading of the text I will second Okay, so we'll move on to comments I'll start down here with michael again Thank you chair. Um, so I I already said my comment just about the landscape plan. Uh, I Discrete, um, Vice chair weigel and that This is not robust landscape plan. I I don't know what plants we're using. I don't know Um, what the water use is for the well. Oh, you know, we're here. I'm a landscape architect There's other landscape um people here on the committee as well landscape At showing in the renderings is I mean that makes the project and if we don't Get plans that we can In my opinion if we don't get plans that we can approve To have the detail on it. So I know what actually is going to be installed. It's hard for me to approve projects With that said, I think what I'm seeing you guys did an incredible job with the architecture with the You know site planning besides what I asked about with the garden in the back I think it'll be an awesome addition to that area of town And I think I I do agree with you that it's a great part of town for the facility because there are many high schools right around there And so I'm I'll be voting to approve it, but I I'm having a hard I'm just having a little bit of difficulty because the details not there on the plans for us to feel confident that What we're seeing on paper on my iPad here is what's going to end up happening Um, so I think the a perfect example is a fence. Um, I didn't expect there was going to be a fence on the property at all understand the need to in that area, but um What is the design of the fence? You know, you are going to see it from the Kaiser facility. You're going to see it from Apollo way That's pretty important for the community for the neighborhood. Um on what that fence looks like Thank you for investing in the community and our teams and our our our uh residents in snow mccounty I really admire what you guys do and Look forward to seeing this project Happen Ernest Thank you chair. Uh, thank you very much for the presentation. Um, I I did feel You know getting to see everything uh in the renderings and also through your presentation and what you stated I'm really excited about what you guys are doing here both through the program the design um The interior design the what was mentioned about the kitchen how everything's opened up. I think it's it's awesome Also, uh, I appreciate the what was said by Some of the folks that are involved and were able to speak via zoom. I thought that was great In terms of design again, I I think it's great the elevations to me. I like the use of materials and everything Um, the only item that I I kind of question is everything so well done um in my opinion Until it gets to the mechanical screen, I feel is a little bit Lackluster for how well everything else was done. I felt like it was when I was reviewing it is like oh man, that's awesome and then You kind of look at the top and it's You know Outside of that that would be my only comment about the building Because it is so community oriented and you're going to have a lot of folks that are I'm going to be coming in Through volunteers With all kind, you know, I heard that I'm going to knock on accessibility because that's what I do The term accessibility came in a couple times as it related to being accessible to the community And to folks, uh, whether it's in high schools or you know, wherever your volunteers are coming from Just to make sure that this is really truly a A space that is available to all Folks including folks with disabilities. There are a couple cues to me that show up here Just looking in, uh, maybe the civil drawings where I think there might be opportunity to really kind of dial in What we need to provide here I didn't realize the botchy ball court was a thing until you mentioned it You know kind of right out the bathroom is cross slope issues to get to and I know that we're looking at a more of a preliminary thing, but I feel that we can capture some of these things at the get go and so how to have to make it an afterthought Make sure we're getting accessible routes to that botchy ball court Um, you know, you have a really nice platform for the raised stage You know, if we're going to have a raised stage, let's make sure everyone can get up to that thing And the other item there there's a discrepancy between the civil and the Architectural drawings for the trash enclosure civil showing it as a Being at uh, let's see The parking grade So it'd be a six inch drop Architectural elevations are showing it as being a flush transition. We do want to see that on an accessible route So just making sure that you could clean that up It's also a different size between civil and architectural And then I do really enjoy the material selected having the natural feel for the garden area However, um, if we really are talking about a lot of volunteers and community members coming through this may be considering Having a more durable and easier to maintain material Um to keep those accessible features such as the planting area getting people to the stage um Really making sure that there's an inclusive space as I hear that this program is intended to be Um, I believe those would be all my comments. Um Really a great project. So thank you very much Michael Yes, thank you very much for a great presentation Uh package that is um doesn't check a lot of the boxes that we don't see sometimes at this stage so I know that there is a little bit of um The in the landscape planting I think Mike I just I'll kind of maybe wrap up your point. It's it the renderings are great. The trees are there And at the same time you can look sort of technically and say god, I wonder if those trees are gonna gonna go away because of Details around Bio bioretention and trees. So those are the things that we think about we like to think a little bit down the road um The fence um One of the things that we've had some discussion around fences Not on residential projects and not in Necessarily even multifamily residential projects that that are adjacent to other multifamily projects, but in commercial areas Is that we like to ask for a little bit more vigorous fence than then, you know Four by fours and you know good neighbor fence. It's it's not necessarily an appropriate fence for Adjacent to the kaiser parking lot and adjacent to other commercial buildings So as we talk about what that is at what the board I'd like to talk about I think this goes back maybe to a memorial hospital project Down in the in the hospital neighborhood here Like to talk a little bit about making sure that that fence maybe has a little different character than a residential fence So we'll cover that My concerns based on looking a little deeper into the north Elevation I'm not real worried about that. I just wanted to check in on it and make sure it was brought up here But from my perspective, it's not an issue. I will say that the program is fabulous And I would love to see you know this grow to 800 000 meals. It's one of the notes that was in um congressman thompson's letter the expansion of that and what that means to a community in terms of public health and it's a You know just this this organization is brilliant in terms of what they're bringing to to our community I love the inside of the um, I love the inside out character of the architecture The openness of the kitchen. I take classes at the jc culinary academy culinary institute and It's wonderfully open to the outside But the kitchens are kind of hidden away and the way that this is just exposed on all sides And you see into the heartbeat of of the of of the mission Is really fantastic and sorry urnist. I love the linear Mechanical screen on top of the building so different different opinion I just thought I just thought that was a nice way to resolve the top edge of the building Without it being something that was that was um That was just you know a hard flat surface Executions going to be everything with that. Um, if it if it comes out as a really strong element I think that that's a really nice way to resolve that Very, you know straight linear edge at the top of the building so I will be I will be voting, you know to to approve the project But I think there's a handful of things that we really do need to work out in some conditions to make sure that It's easy for staff to um Work with this project as it goes forward into permit stage. So Thank you very much And vick I too would like to uh recognize The value and the importance of the program and the you know the community project. It's wonderful. I think the I think you've found a great location that meets the needs that you intend to meet and future needs as well and I think um I think that the project As presented is is a is a great way to get it started And then what you'll have to do is you grow is going to be an interesting question, but I think you have the space um To work on that As it occurs. So I have no, uh Nothing further nothing further to add. Just thank you. Thank you all for the project Adam Thank you chair Yes, and uh, yeah to echo everyone else. Thank you. Um, yeah, that was uh, it'd be my first comment was um, I was very excited to see this project come through um and in front of us because uh Yeah, it's wonderful that you're you're choosing to do this in san aroza. Um, and choosing to do this in the area here Um, it's uh, yeah, the organization is is is amazing. Um providing wonderful service It really go it hits a lot of the things, you know that we Amy mentioned before the general plan this is It it provides so many services to the community It is using an underutilized space an area of town that is growing the Communities that you'd be hitting are um surrounding this area. So this is um, it's a great project So um, very excited for this. Um, and you've done a great job with with bringing us a good presentation I will uh, you know The comments from our um, my fellow board members are spot on. Um, there are some Deficiencies here and there but uh on the whole this is a it's a really great project and has uh Yeah, as drew mentioned. Yeah, you you you hit some things that uh, we we that are missed a lot on some Proposals. So thank you for that to start off with the um Buildings so the the architecture. Um, I really appreciate um How it's kitted out This is a it's you've chosen materials and finishes that are not necessarily um typical for um a lot of uh projects that come through um through in front of us, you know Mention the screening of the mechanical and some of the you know the different materiality So thank you for that for um doing some innovation on this And I think that translates through the project if I can definitely tell that you guys have uh, Have thought this out very well as a team and uh Yeah, the architecture is um, I don't have uh, uh, any any criticisms or additions the um I also uh, the north side in the north face with the three or four-sided architecture excuse me Um avoiding three-sided architecture Uh Yeah, it's a It's interesting because it's the the only thing that caught my eye on that is the large swath of the of the lighter color Um, uh, I know that there are trees planted um along the or proposed to be planted along that. Um That side of the project as well. Um, and there is a mature tree on the other side. Um, and there are structures over there, but uh I think it's something to keep an eye on um to just have a it's it's a it's a large expanse So, um, I know I know as you think you've thought about it. I do know that it's back of house as well So it's it's not the fancy part. It's going to be deliveries and all that But we do like to see the the four-sided. Um, because before those trees do Grow to maturity we're gonna is you know, this will be um the two-story building that will be visible. Um, so Uh something to think there The landscape Yeah, I definitely support Mike's comments. Um as stated and um, I also wanted to re-emphasize the the trees and the trees in the bioretention. Um, it is problematic Um, especially with having I mean the tree species One having trees in the bioretention is problematic But the tree species is also problematic one with having the valley oaks specced there, um Uh, not necessarily they can tolerate water, but especially when they get older they, uh, it's it's an easy way to kill them very quickly so The two ways you can think about that is the placement of the bioretention areas and the placement of the trees and re-jiggering that You can think about the tree species as well. Um, I would also um uh want to um, I I applaud you topofila for uh For referencing the local context and the the um, uh, local eco types around here Um, I think you've done a really good job with bringing in in the natives. Um, and uh, interesting plants as well. Um The one that you that I see you mentioned in the courtyard is as with the, um, the, uh sycamore, um It is it's it's an interesting choice Even before the meeting I wouldn't caught my eye because it's not one that's that's specced a lot. Um, it's great tree. Um, it It it does, uh, there's a couple of things. Um, it does it's pretty it needs water. It loves water And it if you're going for the local context, it is california native, but it is um, not north bay native as well And for specifically for the center as a plane, um, you've you've uh, specced out the the oaks and specifically the valley oaks. Um But uh, there are other species that are are more Highly specifically appropriate to to the area. Um, I'm not saying that the that sycamore needs to go away And a new species needs to be chosen. Um But I think long I would say think long and hard about the uh, the water usage the potential uh potential for spread to I mean sycamores can be a messier tree. Um, but uh, it's something to think about and, um Valley oaks could also be um Appropriate in that area too. They provide great canopy. Um, they do grow pretty quickly quicker than coast live oaks um but the the um The water usage of the sycamores. Um, there are a few plants in the uh conceptual plant lists that, uh Are more on the moderate and water um higher water usage. Um as well And so again with that's one of the the quibbles with the The plans being conceptual is really um, we We as a board it's valuable for us to have something robust to um to react to and to um To to give feedback on and so with having just zones of potential plants. Um, there's not too much that we can really Um give there other than with the potential species you've chosen. So Um, I do think that the landscapes Uh Could deal with it with a little with more detail. Um and some some thought there um Ernest's point about the accessibility. Um Uh Should definitely be included. Um in in your your rethinking and um, I also did have a a um Um, I questioned the choice of the decomposed granite for the uh, the um the garden areas in the public areas Um, it is permeable, which is great, but it's um, it's a messier material. Um, you're going to have this beautiful new building Tracking in decomposed granite to your flooring to everything there. Uh, I know it most likely would be stabilized. Um, but uh with over time it does Will decompose more and then become friable kind of everywhere. So Um, I think that other um, you know More thought could be given to the decomposed granite as a material for for that area um And let's see Um, let's see the simple and clean. Yes, uh, that should do it. Thanks very much. Um, and um, yeah Thanks again for everyone that you brought including the voices of your board members to have that here. Um, You know, we are a technical board, but um, we Uh, are you know design? Um, transcends just the boundaries of the parcel that you're you're you're working on and so it goes through everything design is community Is community design? It is actual infrastructure too. So this all goes to very um, how you're thinking of your project and the mission of the organization So thank you for continuing that through what you're doing with your buildings. Um, and your programming. So thank you very much Andrew Thanks, melanie. Um Yeah, uh, thanks adam. That was great. Um So I guess I've got a couple thoughts about the fence design I've been kind of pondering this and looking at the renderings And kind of seeing what's in there. So on the land because i'm trying to figure out how to condition it, right? Um So on the landscape plans, there's a item number 17 and an item number No, it's just item number 17 which says courtyard entry gate and six foot steel fence But if you look at the rendering of that area There's a what to me looks like a six foot core 10 Framed fence with core 10 hogwire And that's the gate entry, but then it's got what looks like a two foot kind of panel on top and then Like maybe a port-in-place concrete wall below it, which is actually kind of cool I think it's kind of an interesting design It's introducing a different material Vertically that you don't have vertically anywhere else you have it obviously horizontally with paving and sidewalks and stuff so I would actually the way that the The view looking west towards the courtyard entry gate shows kind of a cast-in-place concrete with the hogwire I would encourage that to Kind of be the design. I actually really like it. I think it's agricultural. It's it's very sinoma county feeling And so it could be board form concrete too, which I think would would kind of talk back to what's going on with the building In terms of the wood and whatnot. So I think that would be really cool And then in terms of the other fence the eight foot fence There was a rendering that it kind of looks like an interesting basket weave Sort of in one of them and and maybe it's just the rendering causing that But it's on I think Dan's g 002 and it's aerial view southwest perspective So there's a good neighbor fence that's shown on the west side, which I think to michael's point Hey Me right, I mean, yeah But then the the fence to the south it looks like this really intriguing kind of basket weave Post and and wood kind of scenario. I think so That eight foot fence could be should be that all the way around that garden Which I think gives you kind of a really like textural Fence that and it could be eight feet or six feet. I'm indifferent to the height frankly I'd be okay with eight feet Because then I think what's being shown also is also some It looks like maybe some plantings growing on that wall that you could harvest or something I think so the higher the fence you might be able to attach something to it I know I did something similar A number of years ago at a school that had a robust garden program and so we actually had some planter elements that were attached to the fence that they were able to grow You know vines and things on So that was actually pretty neat So I would I would encourage the basket weave kind of scenario and not The good neighbor fence that I'm seeing So I think that's it I guess my thoughts on the fence One of the thing that I noticed related to fencing Is the generator enclosure and boil boy? There is no other word for this but it just stinks It looks to me like it's some sort of vinyl fence around the generator in the back and so Yes, you need to screen the generator. Yes, nobody wants to see the generator Yes, nobody wants to smell the generator if it ever kicks on but I think the design concept of that fence around the generator needs to Interact with everything else that's going on And so I would encourage a more robust generator design and a generator fence design and actually I would say Based on the floor plan. It looks like you really only need to screen it on Let me get to this It looks like it's only well There's a discrepancy between the rendering and the landscape plan and the site plan so It looks like there's a walkway past it to the East and it's actually outboard but in the rendering it looks like it's a larger enclosure For a larger generator So I guess and then the architectural drawing has that walkway as well at least the site plan so If if the generator enclosure is attached to the building I think you only need to Screen it on three sides if it's independent. It obviously needs to be four-sided kind of scenario Okay Mechanical screen. I agree with earnest and michael both The upper mechanical screen. I think I really like I mean I agree with michael I really like kind of the simplicity of it, but I think it's the wrong material And the reason I think it's the wrong material is it's In order to do wood that doesn't bow and warp over time It would have to have a ton of you know reinforcement, right? Just just massive amounts of just like a steel post sticking up holding it So I'm curious if maybe like strips of core 10 that relate to The fencing down below could be a really interesting play on that materiality And it still gives you that kind of earthy richness That the wood is going to give you and still give you that really nice linearity which I really did like I mean I saw I was like, oh, this is really flat and clean and smooth And it's it's not that I think a lot of times with mechanical wells and mechanical screens It's you know, it's pushed back off the building and then it's like done out of corrugated steel And it's like as an afterthought and you're kind of oh great. Yeah, it's a mechanical screen, but this is really kind of Elevated and elegant and in a way that speaks the rest of the architecture So I think you need to keep it, but I just think it's the wrong material I think you need to up your bike spaces So you need to figure out where to do that And I agree with Ernest and all the access stuff And then I guess my last thought is is the well two thoughts so on the the site plan l 1.2 I just got to thinking about this when we were talking about bioretention and trees and everything I really feel like the front of this building is over-concreted and under planted if that makes sense So you've got a really beautiful garden in the back. You've got a really Tons of trees and planting. You've got all these really unique paving elements those these horizontal site elements the The decomposed granite redwood deck this black locus permeable paver these glass block pavers and then obviously the concrete too And so when you come around front and you go to the entry of the building It's just concrete, right? There's there's nothing kind of fun or playful about the entry And I think you could take all of those elements in the back or some Variation of them that is accessible, right? Because this whole front is an accessible pathway, right? Because you've got A pedestrian walkway coming from a hallway. You've got your 88 parking spaces that you have to deal with You've got your ev charger accessible You know, you've got all these disparate accessible pathways that need to make it to the front door But I think you could play with it, especially in the little I guess the triangle piece And add some more plantings or some more variation in in that paving I think they'd be really interesting and would Would create would it would just extend that kind of richness and earthiness that you have kind of everywhere else And really amp up the entry For low dollar cost too actually really because you're not building architecture. You're just dealing with the ground Just kind of nice And then my last thought is on the the transition From the east side to the north side I agree with michael 100 percent But I think architecture is it's this this is like kind of Opposed to one another, right? You have all those services in there particularly the coolers So and you only have a 12 foot building to building height So depending on what type of structural system you're using you probably have two feet of interstitial space for the structure Which leaves you, you know 10 feet for the coolers And the coolers are probably going to be about 8 feet or 9 feet depending on what manufacturer you go with and What time a compressor and cooling units and whatnot so they're There's not like a lot of room height wise To move them around or anything or introduce any sort of like Clara story windows or any sort of other architectural element to like get Stuff on top of those coolers So you're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place, right because it's a It's a fundamental service of the building and they need to all be there And but then how do you Make the the sides more interesting and and so I I'm struggling I mean I think I would struggle with that design wise too I've got all these services and I've got to wrap them around my kitchen So they're easy to get to but then how do I make the outside interesting? So I have a couple thoughts. We'll see what you think So on the east side, I think it's a little less egregious because there's so many cool things going on kind of push and pull there's the Kind of that kind of eyebrow kind of thing on the first floor that you've pushed out Which actually lends to the transition to the stucco that's still in the same plane as the rest wall So but it makes it feel like a separate mass So i'm less concerned about the east as it feels kind of more completely composed I think I guess the the thing on the the north side that might help would be Maybe recessing the doors and creating a another canopy or something That that may also help functionally as well because then you could have a you know your delivery truck pull up And then you've got cover between your delivery truck and actually dropping stuff off Whereas now it's just kind of open air Which you know is never a good thing and as we know when it rains here it decides to rain a lot When it does rain and then I'm just wondering maybe if the if there was a way To get the electrical room like a little bit shorter in the north south dimension So then that way you could have another material transition maybe Or make it make it longer either or yeah, maybe make it longer Just so that maybe it creates that bracket And maybe it creates like a bracket element where you have the the stair tower and the electrical room You kind of your bracketing materials and that way you don't necessarily I mean I like the stucco transition around the corner in all honesty I think it really makes a whole lot of sense compositionally for the whole building But then it's it just ends up really really flat on that north side So I'm just I'm wondering like what if we push And then that way you kind of you're hiding it a little bit and it gives you a little bit more flexibility But moving those cools. I mean, I don't I don't think you should move the coolers around. I mean that I don't want you to do that at all Because what else where else do you put them right? Um, so yeah, maybe maybe a Maybe a canopy over the doors. Maybe Something to bracket I mean, I think the little mechanical room is kind of interesting on the west side with how that turns the corner Because it's lower than the rest and then it transitions around to the Corrigated steel and stair tower So there's there's some really interesting complexity on that right side And then there's some really nice complexity on the the second floor too How that kind of works together, but then that really large expanse of stucco is just kind of a big flat expanse of stucco So anyway, those are my thoughts really overall great project again This this what's cool about the series There's so much being built over there right now when it had not been built for a long time And I think like the va hospital Is one of those that a big huge chunk of what's going on over there. Um, so that's fantastic So it's really great to see more things happen in this area town It is it is a business park I get but um, this this will be a really welcome addition It'll be I think the next you know, the next project will take cues from this much like the va setup kind of I think maybe paved the way for you guys like hey, the va developed this huge chunk of land And so you're like hey, let's move in there and do something different and cool and unique Much like the va did so great job I don't have anything additional to add because everything that You guys have all said it I think we want to do a few conditions And you know our and thank you very much for this presentation and My background was in dining services for years. So I am I understand the the issues that uh, you're going through with trying to design a project that is aesthetically pleasing And meets your functions. So thank you so much for bringing this project forward And our intent is not to um redesign this project for you, but um, just to make sure that it meets the standards that this board is charged with So I hear that we need to have some additional landscape plans I'm really ready for you to state your case Just ask the question. How have we handled? I mean, we've had a pretty good discussion um, so a few months ago on a project that there were the where did we end up going with not repeating Think things like willow that would cause a An issue with where it's already going to be handled By staff and and what do we? I don't know quite where to go with the landscape Condition I just remember we we we had would establish some kind of a precedent for that I would say chair. Can I chime in? Let me just oh sure go ahead So what we what we said was that we did not want a deviation from the presented plan um We wanted to make sure that the the count of the trees and those items were the same But from what I'm getting you Understanding you're saying is that you just don't feel like you have enough detail Yeah, I don't think the landscape plans enough have enough detail to like be able to approve landscape plans I you know would like to see where they're proposing You know Edible garden and what plant I mean that says other edible plantain tbd by the client So what is that other edible planting? Um, you know the fence the fence issue I think is a big one too that that usually it's shown on the landscape plans and detailed on the landscape plans Um, I missed that they even called out a fence. So I appreciate that being called to my attention, but You know the renderings that we have show three or four different types of fences in the same spot So how do we how do we approve the plan set when It's showing Four different fence styles. What do I and I think that's the overall Issue I'm having right now is with this these plans is that There's not enough detail. There's just not enough certain detail That I would even say that we don't want a deviation from these plans Because the plans have four different fence fences on in one location um, so I don't know I I I don't Feel like we need to add another condition If the if everybody else feels comfortable with this project in this applicant Moving forward, but then again, we're setting the precedent that We'll approve plans that are Half detailed um, yeah, I mean I I think I think there's a There's a fine line. I mean I've been on this board a long time of seven years now um, and I think We I personally have seen really bad landscape plans and I've seen really good landscape plans and then I've seen kind of stuff in between right, so um the projects That that seem to submit lots of information With regard to maybe they've already done preliminary wheel-o calculations. Maybe they've already done You know, they're you know, preliminary storm water analysis and how they're putting bioretention and how big those bioretention Fields are and the facilities, right? Maybe they're just further down the road Um, and it sounds to me like this applicant Submitted a bunch of stuff back in october and then they've been working on stuff since then um, and so there may in fact be A document now from a construction document perspective that may Serve the needs of what you're asking about um, I think the question then becomes How does staff review that right if if If item a is is the current presentation and item b is what's submitted Right for building plan check. How do they rectify the two right how they how they resolve the two elements? You know, uh From a city requirement the requirement is a preliminary landscape plan It doesn't say Heavily detailed landscape plan with wheel-o calculations and etc etc Right, it actually doesn't you know, that's the city's requirements. The design review checklist doesn't say that So it's it's a fine balance. I think between trying to identify what's critical for design and what Is the requirement on the checklist Is that okay with you? No, I can tell I mean like I've already said I would vote to approve this project. I'm not trying to create problems or extend this discussion I think I said this last several meetings I feel like this is a discussion that needs to happen about what design review is really approving As a landscape architect, I don't feel comfortable approving these landscape plans But as part of the bigger package and as part of Something I do think is good for the community. I'll I'll vote for it, but Well, that's what conditions are for I mean conditions are here to Make sure that the applicant meets the condition meet their meets the requirements of the board And you're a member of the board I don't need an additional condition. Okay All right So i'm crossing landscape plans off my list accessibility We want to make sure that there's accessibility to All facilities bachi ball raised stage stage the planting areas Yeah, I don't know if that's necessarily something that needs to be conditioned It's gonna it should come up as part of the building application Um, I believe it's just something that we want to have voiced out there that they're They're really looking at it and that it's it's being considered Um Again, they're the design professionals I think we'll be on top of it and it should be caught in plan check, but Um, just please look at it. I think that's as far as we need to go with it. All right. Thank you going down my list I have a follow-up to that. Um, uh, earnest question for you actually, um, because I I Um Just was concerned about the materiality of the ground plane and the decomposed granite From an accessibility standpoint um How does that look to you? Um since that's a accessible professional? Uh So decomposed granite is fair game And so is some of the other ones the ones that the one that would probably catch me, um Kind of raise a flag for me would be the uh grass It was a paver permeable paver. I think it was described as Um, you know, if you look at the documentation that was provided I think it's in the drawing set. They they actually indicate ad a approved. No one approves ad a It's a civil rights law. So there's no such thing Um Could it be accessible? Yes, um, but it requires that those are the kinds of things that are going to require a higher level of maintenance and installation So I would prefer that it's not used for accessible paths um However, there's nothing that prohibits it. It would become a preference I think and we we can discourage it, but there's nothing that we could say that don't use it Dg I love it in general It's going to get beat up eventually. Yeah Yeah, no, I I I was curious about the permeable pavers too because they're they're wooden permeable pavers They're black locust, which is um, you know in in one sense. Um, is the landscape architect still here? I know I'm not sure. Well, I can talk to you I applaud. I mean this again goes through the the whole project. I applaud the the innovative use of materials It's a nice choice But I I could I would support a condition for um That it would be a consider to to to can to consider the accessibility of of the specified landscape materials something something like that that is a consider to just say Take a take a look at this. It's we're not saying these are all terrible things There's nothing that's not approved because that doesn't exist But saying that take a take a closer look from an accessibility standpoint That's that sounding good. Could I piggyback on that? Can I piggyback on that? Yeah Could we state that um, there'd be a consideration for more durable materials along accessible routes Because that way we don't necessarily prohibit or Knock on the natural materials that might be used outside of an accessible route But at least everyone has an equal opportunity to easily use the space. I think that's sounds great to me. Yeah And to tie to that the the Deck the deck just Jesse's going to require it to be accessible, right? So it needs a ramp or something um Do you want to include anything about that? Just in general because I mean that does change that kind of circular design of that deck in the back Or potentially could so just a question to you is that Does that step outside of our bounds of um Taking on some of the design requirement And If it's fair game to the board, I mean then we it would be easy to say that ensure that uh A ramp is provided to The stage slash deck. I think it's presented as a stage in one of the documents um Via a ramp system or through a raised uh An accessible yeah a sloped walk. Yeah, I think uh, I think a way that would Encompass our requirements that would help staff would be You know Provide provide accessible pathway to stage That is in the same design language as the stage and that way we're we're staying out of the way of what exactly it is And we're giving them flexibility to choose however they want to do it But also making kind of putting Our foot down and saying hey this looks like it's raised It's got this and it needs this That would just be my opinion. Yeah, can we just quote unquote that first portion? Perfect. I wrote that. I wrote that. Yes Okay, um Mechanical screen Uh michael you want to take step Well, I think I think your points well taken. I I did not look at the material selection. I don't know if it was specifically called out as wood Yeah, so I think that I think that we need to um I I don't think a would I don't think that that system executed in wood is going to Be acceptable it is going to you know may so that we would uh require that The mechanical screen be executed Um per the plan set but In a steel or painted steel or rigid material I mean, it's it's you know easy to it's easy to do. It's just a It's a miscellaneous metals project That can then be that can then be painted to match the wood siding and I think it would be At that height and what it's doing. I think it would be fine. So I'm not sure if that shall Yeah, I mean, I I'm I'm I'm okay with I think this is saying saying mechanical mechanical screen system shall be constructed of metal Metal of of as design presented. Yep possible options include Corten steel painted metal galvanized metal Etc. Yeah, that could be a way to do it because I I I personally think Since we saw some Corten steel where it looked like rusted or Corten steel elsewhere in some of the documents I think there's a materiality there that they've shown that we Would be helpful to staff to indicate. Yeah, I'm acceptable Kind of elements, you know other you know, I think that's yeah, I'm good with that that that works Um, so I had uh mechanical mechanical screen to be executed per plan set in steel or metal We we're talking about the generator. Is that right? No, no Of shall be shall be shall be Shall be Okay, excuse me chair the applicant just has a brief comment if you yes Yeah, um, so this is um an area where we've been doing some design development and trying to Understand and talk to we have you know a contractor that we're under contract with on pre development and We're looking at a couple new products out there. Um, maybe familiar with them thermally stabilized wood It's much more rigid it's much more durable We're also looking at a couple of of composite materials There's a new, you know other new um type of hardy products one in particular is uh A uh, it's a cementatious Composite that has a lot of fly ash recycled fly ash in it that is a lot more again rigid and stable And it comes in thicker sizes So if there's a way to um condition this on a rigid material and not exclusively metal That would be appreciated Yeah, I'm great with that. I'm I mean, I'm familiar with thermally modified wood or thermally What did you call thermally stabilized? I mean it has issues it has issues with color retention. It has issues with some other things so, I mean I think There there is a beauty to a wood with a patina Absolutely, I mean, you know, there's lots of redwood and cedar in this area that is patinaed over time That's just as durable as the day it was installed, right? um But I guess the question would be from a design perspective and and what is being What what's the what's the the design vocabulary of that? Screen and how it interrelates with the adjacent Materiality, I think is the the more stringent question um, so I I guess I'd be I'd be okay with the thermally stabilized wood. I just I have concerns about because it's Not shaded. It's up high and it's going to Could look not so great over time Whereas I think, you know dan had indicated I think he was wanting to do some thermally stabilized wood at the entry For example, and I think that that's got a canopy and some other things So I think longevity of that from a materiality standpoint is probably more predictable Whereas putting up high like that and just getting it letting it bake in the sun it's going to Right two sides are going to be one color the south side's going to be another color And the north side's going to be another color. So that that that's my thought so I'm not Opposed to it. I just I have some concerns I think that we we all And enjoy the design We just want to make it to be certain that it's a durable material that it's stays that how it's installed in perpetuity So do we need to say metal or can we just say a durable rigid material? Yeah, that will maintain the look Okay, the chemical screen is off the list Trash access Did we do this? I think we got that right Interim well, there's I think what earnus was pointing out is there's a discrepancy In the heights on some of the plans and then what I pointed out was I am almost a hundred percent sure That sonoma county ehs is going to require doors on the the back side where there's open holes Again, but again, I'm not ehs, but I'm almost entirely positive about that So we could probably just say that staff should ensure that the trash Structure complies with current standards And we might not even need to say that I mean they'll need to obtain a permit from the county Health department and then also are the city has an environmental Services division that looks at projects like this as well. So that'll be verified with the building permit Yeah, I think a way a way to do it though to from a design perspective is consider consider doors at south of trash enclosure That may be required by another just another review authority To be of the same design language as the rest of the general as the rest of the enclosure So that way that gives staff when they see it. They know what it is. It's not new What do you think michael once again that just that comes down to across the board here everything that has to do with building code building review that Potentially impacts the design that we approve that that's that's the issue across the board. That's landscape That's accessibility That's the trash enclosure because those are things that building comes back and gives you a plan check comment And you've got to draw something and then staff has to look at it from a planning perspective And say what what would the design review board do? and so we I think probably that's an app Comment because we're we're picky about trash enclosures. So I think conditioning that the potential changes to trash enclosure meet the Design presented for it is fine I think it's good. So I didn't give you much and it keeps them from coming back I guess is what i'm thinking too is it keeps you guys moving down moving down the road, right? And so staff goes. Oh cool. It's supposed to look like this. Awesome. We don't have to take back the board Yeah, I think the key is that if the condition is related to design It's appropriate. I think if it's related to other regulations that the building official or another Agency is looking at we don't need to add it. So So we're skipping the trash enclosure Drew you had you had a you had a an appropriate comment You had I just said can consider door design on south side of trash enclosure To be of same vocabulary as surrounding architecture if doors are required by another review agency I guess that's what I was getting at because if if somebody comes back and says hey, you need doors And they're you know a different color whatever. I mean, you know, so it could be something that triggers an additional post plan check DRB review and I'm trying to avoid that I guess Okay Got that Did we talk about the fence yet? Okay, I guess we have to do it the fence Drew for for simple reference. I thought that you picked up on two really Key views in renderings That could guide the fence design and I think if we got real specific about the port about those portions of those renderings That we would like to see that fence design match. It would be pretty straightforward Um, so I don't know if you want to go through describing maybe the sheet and the I think it's bigger and the I actually think it's really easy. Yeah, just like you said um so Here we go. I think I think we can make this happen here. All right. Um East fence shown by keynote 17 on sheet l 1.1 Sorry East fence Per Keynote 17 On sheet l 1.0 shall be the design as shown On sheet l 2.0 In the view looking west towards the courtyard entry gate on sheet. What was l 2.0? That's okay 2.0 and then what? l 2.0 the view looking west towards the courtyard entry gate I think that's pretty clean, right? Um We want to say anything about materiality like it appears to be this it appears to be that Do you want to do that? I'm asking about the keynote the key notes on here once Right, so it's it's a short section of fence. That's at the entry to the courtyard So there's two fences at least that I could see in the design One is the entry to the courtyard and the other is a fence that surrounds the southwest and north of the back garden area So for keynote 17 you're saying just for the gate going into the back vegetable garden area correct. That's all do not say anything else so everything else So there's so there'll be two conditions for fences one for this entry gate and one for the Everywhere fence if you will Yeah, I would disagree with the basket. We've looked but I and I I was when you mentioned the designs, you know, what needs to come before designer view it does say there's supposed to be a fence uh site plan and dimensions and materials so I Think we're missing that Yeah, I don't disagree and I think I but it but I also think it's hard to It I think it's a little bit draconian to hold up a project for A fence design So it's I think it'd be nice. We could find a way to to condition it That gives them some parameters for what they need to submit to staff and then staff knows exactly. Oh, it's this It's this is this so if you want to add something about Applicant shall provide dimensions of fences shall provide design offenses design shall be you know, whatever I think that's totally fair game because it's not on there to your point Or even if there's if there's a look that you would want so I don't think we need to add another requirement. I'm just saying that Yeah, like we're just talking. We don't need to add requirements that are already required so And I think on the so then you're saying so just for that key is the Hogwire steel vertical posts, but and then everything else is something else I think potentially I think it's up. I mean it's up for to sky The way I'm reading the plans and again, I could be reading them incorrectly But the way I'm reading is I think the applicant team intended for a kind of I guess a signature fence If you will a signature entry To that back garden because it's right adjacent to the main entry And then they intended for another type of fence to to to surround everything else from from what we heard Right, they've got a lot of teenagers that work in that back garden. So they're interested in security and safety and those sorts of things so At least that's what I heard and so I I heard I'm having an issue with trying to interpret what they want um I mean, I think we can give them the parameters And let them figure it out, but I don't know if we should to be designing it So what about all front front facing fencing is the fence you were talking about because that's what they do show in that lower right The aerial view southwest on on go to or zero zero two from architect They are showing the hogwire vertical fencing all along the front edge So from property line to the side of the building and then on the other side from property line to the side of the building So anything front facing is see-through hogwire Court and whatever rest It's only on the What is that so the east no not the east the south side of the the building in the drawing Which is l1.0. I I think drew um, I I I think drew's original thought of calling out keynote 17 is the way to do it because keynote 17 refers to on the plans the on the landscape plan there 1.0 Just the two white bars on either side of the pathway, and I think that that Should be specified as per the rendering and the rest of the fence even after the end of that bar I don't think it needs it this the concrete and steel doesn't need to extend to the property Yeah, I think what mic is saying though is on g zero zero two aerial view southeast It has more of that and it actually is showing the hogwire all the way to the property line and there's an additional gate It appears For vehicular access correct mic Which would be keynote 18, which is pu access and gate so technically What I think we're talking about is it's keynote 17 and 18 and the interconnected fence between those two need to be all of the same design vocabulary and obviously there's that Concrete component, which is the white bar that's on l1.0 Or what appears to be concrete in the renderings And I I personally don't really want to design You know this for the applicant either and I so I'm I'm having a really hard time Taking this much time designing a project for someone And so if we could just I don't know try to yeah, so what we've done in the past. Yeah, so I'm trying to get this on Oh, go ahead Amy I was going to say it seems to me and maybe I'm missing some details that they did show a proposed fence design In that that rendering that The vice chair mentioned so it's it's showing like a hog wire with There's some areas of concrete that appears to be kind of a it's extending quite a length and then that keynote Is if we say in the condition that it's for set keynote 17 and 18 matches the rendering that's shown Looking west toward the courtyard entry gate. It seems like they they did design that fence I think that sometimes that happens with plans is not everything matches up in the renderings, but That's how I read it is that they did design that that particular fence for for yeah, and I would I would a hundred percent agree I think what I'm trying to get at is We have to write a condition that tells staff where the information is located in the current plan set So that when the applicant comes back and has an elevation or a section or whatever it is To describe how to construct the fence that that matches what was proposed in this plan set That's what i'm trying to get at. Oh, yeah, and I design the fence the fence is already designed Yep, I think that your condition though that references keynote 17 and 8 if we add 18 to that as well And then it references the rendering I think I mean I understand that as a planner and would be able to verify that with a building permit Sorry I think that So where's the height the material? Dimensions, I the height so the yeah, so the height the height is already indicated On the keynote it says six foot high Six courtyard entry gate and six foot steel fence those six foot wide six foot high I would I would interpret that as a six foot high fence, but that's an interpretation would planning interpret it It's the same way I think so Again, I'm not trying to be difficult. I would like to get to approval of this project. I Don't feel like all the information that we need is here Yeah, how do we get there? I would agree and I think I think that what we're trying to do is saying I'm gonna put it this way you guys drew a picture we're gonna say Meet that between a couple of pieces in the keynote. There's an image I don't think it would be crazy to mention Materiality in a couple of ways in the note with a concrete base and steel core tin steel And you know, I think that when we say it's been designed Mike I totally agree with it hasn't been designed it was rendered and that's one of the great, you know Undoings of our of our rendering Easy ai rendering universe that we live in is that is that everybody thinks something's going to look just that way forever And a lot of things change and so people are surprised when they see a project I think this is the best design. This is as much of the design as they've put forward. I think we should Ask staff if they are willing to work with this at the next stage And see if we can't condition that, you know, you drew it now Do it so Not not ideal Okay I think we've So then on the one rendering bottom right g 002 Is that's showing that we're talking about I think I think we just yeah, I think we isolated to l l 2.0 I think we isolated to l 2.0 because the two drawings are right there the renderings are both on that landscape page And the plan that we're referencing is a landscape page So we've got both in there Two top images Contained the design of the fence as proposed I want to read this condition that I wrote down and make sure that you guys are all in agreement on this And it will change East fence shown on keynote 17 and 18 On l point 10 shall be the design as shown on l 2.0 Uh with a view looking West through the courtyard gate And and view looking west over up all the way So west over what it's there's it's the two images right here It's the two images on the top of this page So you could even make it even simpler top two images on sheet l 2.0 Okay Like yeah, so get rid of all the view blah blah blah blah to say top two images on sheet l 2.0 Are you guys writing this down with me? Mike you you had some thoughts about materiality and how to add that on there. How do you want to do that? Yeah, I'm rethinking it. I I think that the I think the description to to match what's in the rendering is good enough Thank you All right cross not the fence cross nothing mechanical screen. I have bike spaces Chair did you want to go back to the everywhere fence the item 20 sorry two fences? Not really, but okay So keynote 20 that's the that's the next fence to cover And I suppose we could write it the same way If we wanted to I know there's It appears that the basket weave is only on the south side For keynote 20 and then it changes to a good neighbor fence on the west and the north side Based on the renderings So the rendering and that you'd like me or the on the page that you'd like me to use on l 2.0 and the bottom left Well, no, it's not a good neighbor fence It is a horizontal board fence and oh, yeah, it is look at that staying brownish color, which I think goes with the Mechanical screen and everything else. So if we want to say that I'm happy it looks different on g 002 There's two different fences up there, but we're using l 2.0 Correct if you want to well, we don't have anyway, we don't have to but yeah, there's additional information contained within the whole thing I like the one on l 2.0 Sounds like a win do it all right six feet or eight feet There are two in l 2.0 on the bottom left two different fences Can I ask the applicant a question regarding this fence these two fences Was the design intent to have a different fence on the west side than the north and the south Since they're different on the rendering it they would seem to me that have something interesting where people are going to be Good neighbor fence north and south Yeah, I think the intent was to have an eight foot wood fence and The discrepancy in those two different renders they may you know at It may have been a sequential thing at some point they presented that and we said that looks great And then at some point they They the basket, which I think does look great And then they presented a more horizontal look and we said hey that looks great So I apologize that um we weren't consistent in what we showed in those two different renderings I think the important thing is the intent is this an eight foot Wood fence and how if you want to condition it being horizontal I think the basket weave meets that intent If it's not whores if it's not a basket weave I think also we would meet our own intent intent of aesthetics So I'll leave that up to how you want to condition it I think we could write it the same way and Mike if you think the horizontal Wood is the what's being shown in l 2.0 in the two bottom images then Then do That's what keynote 20 is it's an eight foot Wood fence with horizontal design as indicated in the bottom two images on l 2.0 I'm okay with that. Yeah, the complexity of the basket weave may just open up a whole other can of worms right Like that can be done really well. It can be done really poorly It's going to be hard to understand and interpret and I think if we've got a winner in The horizontal then we go with that also think basket weave would be climbable Yeah, not really providing screening. All right, it's ready. It's ready your security. Yeah. Yep Okay So to repeat this The east fence shown on keynote 20 No, you you you jumped so it should be a completely separate condition. I know okay So it's it's not the east fence in this case. It's actually the northwest and south fence. Oh keynote 20 Yes, right Um, it's preferred to as the perimeter fence on multiple sheets. Thank you Okay, the perimeter fence on keynote 20 shall be eight feet wooden fence That's all I have for horizontal board As shown in the bottom two images Of l 2.0. Can can we just say the bottom? Right hand image Because the left hand image on the bottom has the basket weave and the horizontal. Okay. Yeah, that's fine the bottom right image That's fine bottom right. Yeah, it's over there Okay, I think I got that Do you have that nor? Okay, all right crossing the fences off Um bike spaces I would just say consider additional bike spaces Consider additional bike parking spaces It's a consider. Yeah, but we can't we can't make them do it because there's a code minimum So it's a consider which is us as the board saying hey, we really think you need this But they're not required to do it by code um and then I have At landscaping to the rear of the building I think that was me again. Yes, actually the the front of the building. So it was that at the entry um on the south East corner of the building there's a The concrete island I guess I'll call it that juts out. Um, and I just thought it was a good opportunity to introduce some additional plantings or Change in materiality because it's a heck of a lot of concrete That's all. Um, if I may Agreed one so we have We are now working with an interior designer and there was some thought there that that could be an artistic space for a nice artistic sculpture or some sort of Plants or space, but we wanted to wait until we developed more of some interior themes to know what we wanted to put out there So again, if there's a way we can find a condition I think absolutely. I think it's consider consider invigorating the southeast concrete paving Uh are considered invigorating the paving to the southeast of the building With additional plantings art seating or other site elements Stop you say southeast Yes, so can yeah consider the concrete paving to the southeast corner of the building consider invigorating And so it considers different than a shower, right? It's a suggestion Do you have an entry entry plaza instead of concrete? Okay, yeah entry plaza. That's good That's great that you're considering the public art or an art project there I think that's a great idea for kind of a monument and another way to to announce what you're doing here Isn't art required for this building? I believe it would be subject to our public art and public license requirement. Okay So I said consider invigorating paving to the southeast of the building adding art landscaping or seating Yeah, and I would just like per Michael's suggestion instead of Uh paving entry plaza Because that's that's really what it is and I I think There wasn't a more inclusive term to end So it was art landscape seating or Other site elements. Okay. Thank you. That's all I have on my list I had one more of course. Yeah, I know. I'm sorry Uh the generator screen design Okay, yeah, but I think I think we can condition it in a way that gives him flexibility. Okay, so a generator screen design shall be Generator screen design shall be no, that's not the word I want um like comparable to or uh It in harmony with yeah, something like that. There's another word for in harmony that I want Yeah, compatible. Thank you. I don't know. I was thinking that Yeah, generator screen design shall be compatible with surrounding architecture. Okay So then that way it's it's not a chain link fence with vinyl or something else Which is kind of what it looks like All right, I didn't catch. I'm sorry. I didn't catch the last two. Shall it be compatible with surrounding? Architects surrounding architecture. Okay, just architecture. Okay. Thank you Does anybody have anything else? Speak now I'm okay on the north. Well, I think it's gonna end up backing up to the back end of another building at some point and You know, I think it's interesting at a higher level that you're gonna see from a distance from mercury way at this point um, even the lower even even the Smaller planting that will go in initially is probably going to ameliorate amelior easy for you to see Um, some of the view initially and then I don't I think it'll just disappear when somebody plugs into that other parcel so And I think the the applicant team has heard our You know concerns about that area and then could be thinking about I don't I don't I don't see a need to condition that in particular Yeah, I mean I'm gonna disagree and you guys can if we want to write a condition on this I have one but um, consider Covered entry at shipping and receiving on north north elevation I just Yeah, as a consider that as a consider seems fine But I but I think that's that's from a functional standpoint and also a design of that wall It needs to be covered. Do you have a is there a loading dock back there or raised loading dock? No I guess I just don't want all your beautiful meals to get rained on so I didn't get that at all if that was I just said consider covered entry at shipping receiving On north elevation And I have a sneaking suspicion. They're probably already going to add one when it comes down to it Just a little eyebrow can't be So we need a motion Another one I move To do what we just said We have a friendly amendment. I guess we have to do that I'll second the friendly amendment Do you accept the I accept the I accept all the friendly amendments as read And true. Do you I'm sorry adam? I also accept the friendly amendments. All right I think we need a roll call Board member birch I Board member cook I Board member libtak I Board member Sharon I Board member with rich I Vice chair weigel I Chair jones carter I This passes with seven i's and zero nays And a couple of real nice fences Please note this action is final unless an appeal is filed with the planning and economic development department within 10 calendar days of today's decision Pursuant to zoning code section 20 dash 62 point zero three zero. Thank you very much We're not done I'm sorry Item 8.2. You need to leave. I know Do we want to take like a Two-minute break if anyone needs water bathroom. Sure Okay, that's right recess for two minutes Good luck Hopefully there is nervous as they should be Who's your phone been beeping? I get to bang the gavel again. All right continuing on Item 8.2 report item resilient city development measures update citywide file number prj 23 dash zero one zero Presented by christian city planner Not best up that name Good evening members of the board Today we're presenting the resilient city development measures update These measures are citywide And the project number is prj 23 zero one zero So for the project description This is going to be a zoning code text amendment as well as a map amendment for chapter 20 dash 16 As well as chapter 20 dash 28 for the resilient city combining district Chapter 2016 was implemented in response to the fires that were happening as well was updated for the kovat 19 pandemic Both these sections were set to expire this year in december 31st They were created to address housing and economic needs citywide And they were utilized as two ordinances together for different reasons And staff is requesting comments and recommendations for standards related to design review So we're bringing three things forward to you today from the sections of the text amendment So that would be the modifications to the design review process The changes to an approved project process and design review for city projects So the project timeline for this is the We first started with the city department feedback sessions So we met with a lot of departments that do this type of review with us That happened over april through july And then we had a developer out We reached out to quite a few developers that had gone through some of the design review elements that have been within these ordinances And then currently right now we're in the phases of the public survey and that's going to end on august 18th Today we're here for the design review and then next steps would be going to planning commission and then city council Going first into the first section to discuss is the modifications to the design review process This reduced the authority from the designer review board to the zoning administrator This is for products that are within the priority development areas that we have here in the city It was aimed at being a streamlining process And it's for projects that are 10,000 square feet or more and are in visually sensitive locations Parts of this it requires concept with the designer review board and a neighborhood meeting And that is usually going to the public hearing with the city council for an appeal. Um, there are some Options that we want to go over with you for the modifications to the design review process There have been quite a few challenges. So we have these three here forward today So the options are the keeping the reduced review authority with the zoning administrator Um Going to the original format with drb review Or having a new three-person committee to review these projects in some of the zoning administrator or the design review board I wanted to bring forth some of the uh feedback that we've received already about this process um One of the pieces of feedback is that it is difficult for the z a to Act on these projects if they are not a licensed architect or have architectural knowledge It is also difficult for the z a to handle these as a one-person body um The design review board concept Sorry, the design review board concept is not a binding meeting um Developers also prefer the streamlining process The housing element that we just certified is looking for streamlining processes and this is one of them that was brought up um The public is usually not in attendance into these projects and Let's see It has been a bit of an issue going with the concept in neighborhood meeting requirements For some of the projects that we're going through And so far I wanted to let you know we have about approximately 30 projects that have gone through this process For the next thing um in front of us is the changes to improve project process So what was put a stop what was currently done before was that All changes to improve project was done through the zoning administrator or it would return to the original review authority What was done with resilient city is that it allowed for the director To act on changes to improve project that were residential related So like lodging and childcare in some apartments or other related During this they would be notifying a 600 foot radius with 10 days prior to action And if they did not follow the standards we have in place they would go to the original review authority This would also give the director or the zoning administrator the ability to return a project to the original review authority And lastly to bring up is the design review for city projects Currently the design review code does not match up with how we relate to government projects Um the proposal would be to update the design review section So that government projects receive concepts prior to building permit rather than them coming During the building permit phase It is recommended by the planning and economic development department that the design review board provide comments and recommendations to staff about the proposed changes to design review My information is listed here And that was the end of my presentation So how would you like for us to proceed? Um great question. Thanks chair. I think I mean this can be kind of a Um a back and forth discussion the board might have some questions. We're happy to answer any of those Um, we also have Um, just for your information, Jessica Jones. She's the deputy director of planning. She's Available on zoom as is susie murray. She's the city's um current zoning administrator So she's had some really recent experience Acting on these um projects that would typically be reviewed by the board And so just letting you know, um, they're available as well And um, I just wanted to add that christian had that slide, um, which mentions sort of What what we could do with the design review process and again, this is specific to our priority development area. So It's primarily the the north station area. So around codding town The downtown area and the roseland area. Those are our three Large priority development areas that are covered within our specific plans And then there are two kind of smaller priority development areas that Dovetail with those that I just mentioned. So that's the santa rosa avenue corridor and the mendicino avenue corridor So the board has seen I believe Um projects as as concept items in all five of those priority development areas over the last five or so years um, and so that modification slide again is It's options it we might settle on something that's not on that slide So just to kind of reiterate what we've talked about as as staff One would be keeping the process essentially as it is. So that would be required concept design review And then action by the zoning administrator another potential option would be Going back to what we did five years ago, which is the board sees all projects that are larger than 10,000 square feet Another option could be the creation of something Smaller so like a three-member board which could include the zoning administrator So kind of striking a balance of keeping it more streamlined, but also having more eyes on the project Something else that's come up more recently is Developing objective design standards with a consultant And perhaps using those to do a ministerial review of some of these projects So we're really just hoping that the board can Share its experience with these projects. I know there's three board members that have been on for quite a while Before we made this change in after so I imagine there will be things to say and we hope it can be a constructive conversation And just really appreciate that we have the opportunity to talk with you all about it. So thanks Well, um, since i'm not one of those three persons Why don't we uh turn it over to The three that have been on the board the longest and get your input and the three of us that are new can chime in at the end How's that? I think it sounds good Um, I was actually going to defer to michael and the reason I say that is michael was actually chair When this all happened, um, so I think he has a really unique perspective about Kind of what happened And I think adam and I were were veterans, but but young veterans. I think at the time. So it just started. Yeah Great. Thank you drew So I was I was chair when the resilient city measures came through um You may remember that I was a very very cautionary and and and sort of it was unwilling to Back down entirely. I felt like it was a really critical time for santa rosa to Prioritize The quality design through Having designed professionals review projects At at the time that we were going to rebuild and at the time that all of these areas the resilient city areas Uh really became critical to us not just for rebuilding from the fire But for meeting the goals of transit oriented Development and a lot of what's been going on with state law in terms of transit oriented development Creating density downtown these things. Uh, these areas. It's interesting to me that these are the areas We want to reduce the authority. These are the areas that are the critical areas For how the city presents itself from a really basic You know aesthetic and livable and quality of design standard. It is they are the critical areas for Who is going to want to move here? This is where we need to have our eyes on design So the resilient city areas are To my eye the areas that we would maintain that authority if it was not for other factors It's interesting to me In looking at the comments the staff comments. I'm very much in tune with Because I was the first chair Who sat in with zoning administrator on items that we had seen because staff and the zoning administrator at the time said Where I am not the person who's qualified to Determine whether or not the applicant has met The conditions of approval from these concept reviews. They were concept reviews. They weren't public actions Now we're making the public action And I need someone from the design review board with a broad spectrum of experience and skills To to validate that the applicant has made Has made these has met these conditions So it was really fun. Actually. I really enjoyed it and amy. You were the one who invited me in first drew I know that you've done it as well since I was not on the board not chair and I I can really See in the staff comments about where we're headed that It's like well We need we need some help. We need somebody we need something and that's what I read in the staff comments that you brought forward christian The developer comments are obvious. They're they're obvious. That's just I mean we know that as much as they could shrink Any responsibility requirement they will I work for the development side So I'm not You know for me to say that I've probably got people on tape who are on the zoom who are watching But the bottom line is You know, I haven't I I know the projects that have been approved here And I know we've we've seen several projects that are fantastic We've gotten through them in one concept design review We've added Very little cost to projects We it's a step. It's it's a few months to get on the agenda to get things up to speed for this I understand that but those projects that haven't gone forward have not Been stopped by us. They've been stopped because of financial conditions They've been stopped because they were over designed I know a couple of projects specifically that we've approved right at the north station That everybody was green light goes straight ahead I know for a fact that they came in over budget and they're they're it has nothing to do with this But what what we what we the the role that we perform here At the lowest possible threshold For anybody who works outside of santa rosa post fires Post-covid, this is the lowest threshold of review of any municipality that I work with We are already there At the how quickly can you get this built step and that's something that this board says all the time We just I I think that seven diverse backgrounds Seven unique sets of skills Bring something to the table That when you're reviewing a design design projects is really critical and we have this discussion We just had this discussion on the item that we had you've got you've got um landscape designers who look at the technical aspect of landscape design and then we reel it back and We relate it to design comments. We've got Ernest who is an accessibility expert and you say how does that fit on the design review board necessarily But but but you know, he's bringing a design perspective to a civil To a federal rights law, right? I mean and that's what seven people do as a board That that a zoning administrator can't do alone and probably three people on a board can't do So I'm comfortable with where we landed at the original Resilient city with the reduction In the in in those rc zones to a concept review I have seen the projects that have moved forward been executed To our recommendations having a having a design review board member Sit with the zoning administrator during the final public action has worked very well I I'm not sure what we would change here. I'm not sure how much easier we can make it for the development community So that on item number one, I wouldn't I wouldn't change what was established previously. It's just that's my two cents As far as item two, I'm confident in the director to direct traffic on changes in projects Especially because I know at least with the group that is part of the staff now the team Um any time that there has been something that needed to come back to this board I feel really confident it's come back to this board Or or like I said, we've been sitting in and we you know, we made some corrections at the zoning administrator level So I'm fine the director That's their job is to direct traffic And you know, we all know oh those of us who work on the developer side We love it when something comes down to being a director approval And we've and and we do the right thing and you and you and you collaborate And you and you get it done and I think that's really a still a great spot for them And then I think item three sounds like a housekeeping item right that government projects would require a concept design review And that that sounds great to me. I mean, it's the same system we're using in the rc So that's my perspective from having been part of the first process and where we sit now and and my background And I don't I don't think that I missed anything necessarily that I wanted to say so Yeah, and I would agree with michael. Um, I mean almost completely. Um, I'm going to go backwards from him Uh So city projects, I think yeah, this is slam dunk, right? It's house keep man. I'm we're we're already doing this Right. I mean the bridge is a great example city project. We've seen it a couple times for concept review um You know the approved project thing I would also agree with I mean, I think I think the director being the authority is is better. I think having the zoning administrator Somewhere in there feels like not the right thing Just for some reason to me that would be my only kind of comment Um, just leave it with the director to make that decision whether it goes up or down Right, so the director says no it can go to the zoning administrator and get approved No, it needs to go back to the drb right or whatever the original authority was Um, you know, I think I kind of had the same thoughts to michael When we got our authority reduced originally I kind of freaked out. I think, um For many of the same reasons And and actually I think more specifically The these specific items that got excluded child care lodging mixed use multifamily residential and single room occupancy Like they need an extra design eye um Because they are they are dealing with things like dignity um access to Daylight they're dealing with things that that are really critical design ideas Within the architecture world right the built environment world um, and You know, I think I think I would be upset with myself As an architect if I had not seen like a multifamily housing project that gets built that has Tiny rooms that have no daylight that have you know that are built to like the bare minimum of the code standard And frankly the california building code is the bare minimum, right? It's You should really never design as an architect We we have to design to the building code, but we don't design to the building code, right because there are so many ethos That go into building design that go beyond the building code And I think I think it was a mistake to opt some of the most critical building typologies From a more robust discussion um I do however Like that we change and I don't know if we did this part of the resilient measures Or if this was another ordinance But the way that we kind of cleaned up the way design review worked We're because before we used to have preliminary design review and then we would do final and we would do all these other kind of machinations and Dancing and other things I I really do like the the kind of more Finality of what's happening now you get major design review and you're done, right? There's no question about do you do this do you do that? Oh, what do I go back to the design review board? so there's there's A predictability factor. I think that exists now with major design review that Didn't exist when we had that whole preliminary final thing and particularly because preliminary was tied to the actual entitlement And final wasn't so now major design review is just that is the entitlement action, which I think is is It's predictable for a developer um I think we should see projects less than thousand ten thousand feet. I think we need to see projects that are five thousand feet or more um I I design a lot of work in that realm between five thousand and ten thousand And they are substantial Uh for many different reasons, right? Uh, um Now this would never come before a city design review board But to give you an example A multi-use facility at an elementary school is about seven thousand square feet, right? It's a gym So on a school campus that facility Is an anchor point? Right for that school campus So five thousand square feet is a big building, right? We're talking about commercial buildings that are five thousand square feet or more. I mean houses You know are getting to be Three thousand four thousand five thousand square feet, right? So I honestly think the ten thousand threshold is too high I think it should be lower And and yeah, I've long thought that I actually have long thought that drb should have authority over all Uh single family developments as well because uh, I'm frankly quite tired of seeing trash get built Because it's exempt right because it's a single family building And a developer wants to come in and put down, you know, 100 units and make their money and whatever and it's it's junk So I don't want to see that. I think we should have authority over that too If we really want our city to be beautiful and our city to be a place to live I mean People want to live in northern california, right? It's gorgeous The weather's amazing. Our schools aren't half bad, right? The pay is fantastic There's all these different reasons to live here and yet we somehow keep You know letting things slide through sometimes I mean, I was particularly frustrated with a lot of the rebuilds in Coffee park for instance, and but that's my own personal thing And I know we didn't really have like control over that But I saw a lot of the same stuff At burn get rebuilt exactly as it is instead of Really having a keen eye To identify, you know ways to improve those spaces and infuse better Livability and more dignity to those houses that were built, you know in the 80s, right? We know different things now than we did 40 years ago In terms of building materials and interior air quality and all these things so I would like to see No more reduced review authority and everything come through this board I can dive in as the third veteran, I guess Um Yeah I guess to to go through the three I'm also going to go backwards on them the the two and three Are I'm good with for the same reasons that drew mentioned housekeeping and Yeah, I think I think they're they're fine And uh, yeah the um Um Yeah, it's uh, it's a this is a really interesting. Um Conversation because it does it it really, uh, it gets to Nitty gritty Logistical concerns of actually how we actually get projects done and how the the city works, but it also gets two philosophical Concerns, which is what the design review board is is tasked with With doing the Kind of the the subjective design components That's what we are Are tasked with But those those subjective design components have real Actual You know issues that affect the bottom line they're affecting the cost they're affecting The timeline and all of that And so, uh, you know the the balance that I think that is trying to be struck with with Accelerating review while also having Well, we need to capture those subjective components And so, uh, when when I started it's a long way to get getting to when I when I started It was right when these these measures had been been Uh enacted and um I was really curious to see What had come before I was on the board um and And to the the board members that were on when I got on I said that there were all of these changes that were happening And so I've seen the the implementation and I feel that What we are The the board has been in the five years. I've been on has been functioning well and we've I feel like we've been been Uh constantly trying to to work with with the The The modifications that have happened but uh I I feel uh Reducing any of our our authority any more. Um, I agree with drew. Uh, it would be misguided Um, I also agree that that we um, uh, I would I would prefer to see us even have more more of you It's a very interesting thought about the 5000 square foot. Um, I could definitely see The review board um having that become under our purview again and also the um You know, uh Taking the the uh, you know, the childcare facilities the Mixed use multi-family seeing it, you know, SROs out of our purview as well. Um Uh As as drew mentioned those are, uh, you know There they're the the the It gets gets that that that philosophical underpinnings. It's not just development in our in our city It's kind of what I mentioned with the sarah's project. It's creating these The it's it's uh, you know, the designs that we're improving are almost um, their infrastructural Expressions of the city's philosophy and I feel like the design review board is a very important bulwark to keeping those subjective Uh Concerns in mind and at forefront of mind as well um We're the only ones who as far as I know that really have the subjective design view and so, uh I I believe that that um rather than, you know Reducing anything I think that we could have more authority uh the the the options that you've you've brought forward christian with the You know the three-person committee to review. Um, that's I think could uh Could help help out um with the zoning administrator and with some of those concerns that were mentioned But uh, it's still also a small committee having the diversity of voices is a really important thing and it also is um, it's an expression of the The voices of our community as well We're you know, we're not all designers up here We are designers. I mean I wear multiple hats. I'm a designer and uh planner You know, I straddle private and government. Um, you know, we bring this diversity We bring this kind of messy the messy side of the design side of things of infrastructural development That I think is really important to preserve and to um to uh to strengthen and so rather than reducing anything I would Agree with with what you had mentioned with uh In in increasing our authority or bringing it back to some of it. I don't you know, you know I don't think we need to go back to the original format. Um, but I think that Bringing some of that back within our purview would would um Benefits um the city um in the area more. It's not even just about us and wanting to have um say over projects and I'm In wanting to to slow things down or to even design out projects We're not up here to design things. We are here to um to speak on behalf of the the community And so um, I think this is a really important forum for that So Those are my my thoughts there Thank you We're gonna turn to New people Ernest do you have any comments to make? Sure, um, I'll I'll keep mine brief But uh, just my history, you know, I I do come from an architectural and engineering firm and um The the concept of being on a designer view board is a little bit odd because I really do not like designer view boards in general um I find them to be a headache and um really part of the red tape that makes things difficult Uh, that said, um the way This designer view board has operated. I feel has truly expedited the process as much as possible from what I've seen in other jurisdictions um So I understand how uh when I hear what was mentioned About a developer wanting to maybe see a faster process. I mean that's yeah, of course But I I really think that it's it's pretty streamlined for what I've seen In comparison elsewhere um To reduce The authority that the designer view board has um That's not I'm not quite understanding how or why that would um Be something that we'd want to explore personally Uh, I think that the projects that we've been able to review at least in my short tenure here has been Um, very much in line with what we would want. Um You know An outside view besides just maybe a planning department to be able to take a look at the comments that I've heard that have come up from this designer view board have been Uh, the term diverse came up. I would say very diverse and have provided a lot of opportunity for projects to Maybe get some insight that they wouldn't have gone anywhere else so, um Those are my general thoughts. I I don't really understand why um reducing the authority of the designer view board Um, and I I I do think that what's going on here is actually quite good Thanks. Thank you and dick So I I think One of the things that we get from the design review board is the multiple perspectives but that includes A kind of a a human centered approach to changes we make in the built environment Um, and that's always well, it's certainly at the heart of Why I'm here the the human centered approach not approach it's Valuing the human experience when we make changes to the built environment now. I'm I'm a I trained as an architect and I taught architecture for A couple of decades And that was like that was what we were teaching people young people who wanted to be Architects and designers of the built environments like yeah, you can do this thing and it's cool Or you can do this thing and you can make a lot of money or you can do this thing or that thing But if you forget about the people who are Going to inhabit the space and you're not going to be standing at the front door telling them how to inhabit the space Then then you're not actually Doing excellent design or superior design or even good design You're just going through the motions of numbers and spaces and It's the but it's the it's the people and I think this design review board as we as we Look at the like the many projects that are coming before us Yeah, we can get into the nitty gritty and talk about whether it's a basket fence basket weave or horizontal but really we're we're thinking about What it means for the people who are going to Occupy the space or or not occupy it but It'll be part of their lives because it'll be part of their neighborhoods or their city I don't think I don't think I don't think you can get that from a single person Making a decision and I and I think you really need a diverse group of people To to hold that value the human centeredness of The quality of the built environment So I think we should not reduce the authority of the design review board Thank you Thank you I you know i'm new like these other folks and Like I said when I first came here I heard that you know The design review board was a bottleneck to projects getting completed, but I don't see that and Um If anything what I hear is that we want to help these people that are coming to us get their projects passed We want to not design for them But give them the framework to get their projects completed in a timely manner and not at cost Addition not cause additional cost to them and One of the other things that has been Um Kind of enlightening to me is when the public comes here and they talk about how important the project is to them That's being built in their neighborhood or even the applicant when they come and You know you see all the work that they put into it to a person everybody here says thank you for you know bringing Bringing this project forward. We're really looking forward to this I haven't seen anything that we have not said that for so far but um Yeah, I I agree with these guys. I think the diversity of our of this particular group Works really well together and I would Not like to see our role diminished If the idea or the intent is to Um have process have projects get through the process faster. I don't think this is the way To make that happen. I don't think the design review board is a bottleneck And i'm also kind of concerned about How many zoning administrators are there? We only have one zoning administrator. Um, they currently have changed quite a few times since this has started We do have a backup zoning administrator in case that zoning administrator cannot attend their meeting or if they have a project that is related I just I don't know the the workload for one person sounds astronomical to me um And having so many different eyes On a project. I mean we each bring up something different because we all have a different expertise I know this has been said already but I find that every single meeting, you know The landscape architects are calling out something that the architects aren't seeing I'm neither one of those and I bring up things that somebody else is not thinking about And you know just having one set eyes on a plan. I don't See how that's going to work That's my comments Chair if I may actually I was thinking about something while you were talking about I don't think this is the way to Expedite the process. So I was thinking about something and I think this is something that So I'm you know, I'm an architect. So I I do entitlements, right? I put packages together for design review boards or for planning commissions or whatever And so the one thing that I think that we as a firm do that So we have a bit of a reputation for being able to handle entitlements with Speed because we don't have to go back and back a bunch of times We get everything approved and the reason so what I'm thinking about is related to the design review board checklist and so I think where The the projects that we've seen That are robust that are great projects. I mean a 420 menesino is a is a phenomenal example of of just exceptional architecture at a high level That came to this board multiple times because they had all sorts of crazy funding stuff happening But they still you know move the the football down the field as you say But what really struck me about that project in particular is They went above and beyond the checklist, right? They did the checklist But then they were like, you know what I'm going to provide this this this this and this because I don't want any questions about it We're at a point now in the design of our thing whatever they you know 420, which is a it's a multifamily residential project on menesino L shaped very cool. David Baker out of san francisco But they said we're going to answer all the questions that are going to get brought up at drb And we're going to do it through the documents that we're providing So we're going to go beyond that checklist and we're going to give everything on that checklist plus some And I think that general comment about all the projects that I've seen in the last seven ish years the ones that Hit the checklist on every level and then go beyond the checklist are the ones that we tend to just be like A great project have have fun building, right? We're like get it going and so I would encourage us to look at how we utilize that checklist From a staff perspective and maybe that checklist needs to be more robust And if it perhaps that may be where this potential little committee might Come into play is review of projects Against the checklist because if they don't I think where I've struggled at times is and I think mike Today, right? He's like, I can't review this Right about that landscape stuff. It's That's what we do when we process entitlements. We kill you with information on purpose and I think if we can find a way to convey that to the development community that whether that's through a checklist or And then if if there's a way that the board or a small group of the board can help Expedite the review of the items for the checklist. I don't know I'm just trying to find a way to because the everything it needs to come here at the end of the day to get the entitlement but Projects seem to have so much more success when they're They're running on all, you know, six cylinders eight cylinders ten cylinders, whatever Two motors two motors four motors, whatever. Yeah And and ultimately I think really the projects that have come that way the commentary has been incredibly meaningful In so many different ways and the project is And I think it what the other thing is the applicants all been wow, I didn't think about that Yeah, we're gonna change that because it was a zero-sum game for them from a development cost But it was like wow if I do that. Oh, okay, cool Um, and so to me that was so amazing. Um, I guess my last thought beyond this is This board at the reason why I worry about reduced review authority Is this board actually was responsible for for not having a project built but not in a way you might think We were not obstructionist because we didn't want the project. We were obstructionist because the project was not safe Uh, so there was a proposed, um, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh senior living center In fountain grove and the applicant team had not thought about their, um Uh relation to the recently burned tubs fire and, uh, uh, all of the things related to maintaining all of their shrubbery and The clear the clear space required that that's required by the fire department. They had not thought about that Um, and it comes down to this line item in the zoning code Which is the proposed development will not be detrimental to the public health Safety or welfare or materially injurious to the properties or improvements in the vicinity And that's one of the biggest charges of this board and frankly That's actually one of my charges as a licensed architect in the state of california is to protect the public health safety and welfare So I that that's why this board is important Is that specifically is protecting our community? for Not just design issues, but The actual health safety and welfare of our community So anyway, sorry One one quick add on to it to what you just said drew. I think the idea of where the bottleneck exists It really shouldn't be perceived as this board. I think it is perhaps the development community's approach to Meeting the requirements of the checklist And doing that in a full-throated way by hiring the right consultants We've had we've had projects come through that were major Multifamily residential projects to be built in existing historic remains. This goes back a few years This is not the cannery project, which is a great project, but this goes back a few years with no civil engineer No, no civil engineering drawings and a design and they showed up three times to see if we they could ran this project through So it's it's not typical of of what happens, but I don't think the bottleneck is the board I think the bottleneck is the preparation of the material to meet the checklist and I think that I think the development community should be aware of the fact that that's a baseline of Responsibility for the city to have that information for the for the representatives of of the electorate here and Their representatives to look at that information and see it. So I think My takeaway is I kind of dig in and I think about the design review board and and I think just backing off and saying The perceived bottleneck neck may not really be the board It may be the preparation of the materials that the board needs to review because this board And the way that our review authority is set up and the way it's been working Has been very smooth when we have the right material in front of us And so i'm reiterating, but it just strikes me that that may be the the bottleneck itself and not the board So Yes I was hoping just to provide a thought and a clarification. So one this might not need to be clarified But I thought I heard a few times That perhaps some board members thought we were further reducing What the board would see so this would not You would still see all the projects you've seen for the last, you know, five or so years. This would just maintain What changed back in 2018? And so those bigger projects like you mentioned Multifamily projects in the downtown those would come for concept to review But then they would continue to go to the zoning administrator. That's that's one possible outcome However, the you know the series project you just saw that would still come to this board So just wanted to make it clear wouldn't be further reducing but would be maintaining how it's been the last five years And We are kind of taking in feedback from a variety of different places. So as christian mentioned, we've had a survey We've talked to some developers We'll go to the planning commission with a proposed Text amendment to what we currently have in the zoning code and they'll weigh in and then it's ultimately up to the city council what happens So I just wanted to mention that and then You know one piece I appreciate the comments and I'll let christian chime in as well just about our checklist and and how I'm thinking maybe it could be helpful to have that be kind of like a I don't know a Study session or something with the board at a future date so we can go through What we're requiring and what those various plans include Landscape plan comes to mind based on the previous item, but I know there are other things and I think that that's a really good point about You know what the board is provided with for the public hearing and also You know, I don't know and I I can't speak to what's been out in the community But I I think you know back in 2018 when staff proposed this change it wasn't so much a focus on Um the board it's the board being an obstacle But there is a lot of preparation and the packet that comes to to boards or the commission compared to what goes to the zoning administrator So the staff report is an example So sometimes it just takes longer to get an item on an agenda compared to the zoning administrator So that's just something I would point out to Thank you Do you have something else christian? Uh, not at the moment. No, okay Anybody else have any come? No All right. Well, I mean staff is awesome. I'll say that. Yes. I think I think as long as I've been on the board I mean, I've really enjoyed staff And I think sometimes they to amy's point they they're overwhelmed and and so finding a way to help them out may be the way to Expedite the process I guess is what I'm getting at So I would like to open public comment on this item We do have one participant via zoom Um, if you wish to make a public comment, please raise your hand If you're calling in please press star nine Chair Jones Carter, there are no hands raised Thank you very much Are there, um Oh, we're all done. Um Sorry, let me flip my sheet over Um, sorry Well, I think that is it for us. Thank you very much christian for your presentation. I have one last question chair. You sorry chair. Yes um the uh, so, um Our comments, um, I know you gave us the timeline of what's what's going on forward But uh, um, since it does affect this board in particular, um Are we going to hear the results of the the comment or you have another bite at the apple or something or I mean I'm just kind of curious what is this our one chopper Given thoughts and what's going to happen? I think if you have any, you know, additional thoughts you can send send christian an email or me an email um And then you know, I can sort certainly provide like an update during department reports at future meetings We didn't anticipate that this would come back before The board just based on the the project schedule so that the current ordinance which includes a whole host of things Besides what we've been focusing on tonight is set to sunset at the end of this year So we've got to get to planning commission in september. Um, so there's not a whole lot of You know, but please if something else comes to your mind that you didn't think of we'd we'd love to hear it um So great. Thank you. Thank you for working on this christian Um, thank you. This item is for discussion and direction only no item with no action will be taken on this item And the meeting of the design review board is now adjourned