 Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening. You can go to live in France but you cannot become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany or Turkey or Japan but you cannot become a German or Turk or Japanese. But anyone from any corner of the earth can come to America and become American. Welcome back to the show. Today's guest is Brian Tau Wara, poet and author, first-generation law American, a member of the Council on Asian Pacific Minnesotans. My dear colleague, welcome to the show. Oh, so my dear and hello Aloha and welcome to you as well and to all our audience members who are tuning in on this. I'm honored to be here. Thank you so much, Brian. I'm very thrilled about this interview because you are the first poet we interviewed. And we don't have a lot of immigrant points and we need more. We need a more immigrant author, writer and points. So you came to the United States in 1973. Adopted by an American pilot, naturalized in 1976 during the American visit to Daniel. Just please tell us about your family. Do you remember anything before you came to the United States? And most importantly, what is it like to grow up in the United States? Wow, that's a great complicated question, of course. I want to say I came to the United States at a very young age. I was less than six months old. My family had been flying in the United States as civilian pirates for the Lao government during the same time as the Vietnam War. And 1973 was the close of the U.S. involvement in that part of Southeast Asia. And so my family had been looking for a child to adopt at the time and I came along with everyone. And so growing up in an all-white family in different parts of the United States was an interesting experience. I've got to see what life was like in states like Montana, Alaska, Michigan, right during the rise of the computer age and important cases in Asian American history, such as Vincent Chin killing in 1982 when Adolf Otto workers killed Vincent Chin for mistaking him for Japanese. And so all of this came in at the same time that my family was very encouraging for me to look at all the different ways that it was possible to be an American, to see what it was that we were reaching for with our freedoms and with what we saw as our responsibilities in terms of being civically engaged, helpful to others and trying to make a difference in one of those files. Thank you very much. You came to United in the 1970s and that is about the same time Asian American identity is being formalized, I would say. So I really appreciate your explanation. So you are award-winning law American point and you hold over 20 literary academic and professional awards. 10 years ago you were selected as a law delegate to serve as a cultural Olympian during the 2012 London Summer Games. You're writing a sighted over nine international textbooks including the Princeton Encyclopedia of Poetry and the Poetics and the Historical Dictionary of Asian American Literature in the theater. You recently presented as a Liberal Congress on Law American Literature, but my question to you is, every child is a point. I was a point when I was a child, but a few of them decided to make it a profession. How did you become a point? That's a wonderful question as well. I took a number of courses in high school and in college, of course, to be a poet on the one hand, but both one as I often tell my colleagues what really started me off as a poet. I think it was that I ran into many other poets who were doing some amazing work there and I realized I could be a part of that conversation and in the process of exploring the possibilities started off a little practically. I will admit that I had decided to try my chances and to take that risk and to jump into a campus poetry contest and I happened to win a prize from that and I thought to myself, okay, well, maybe we can keep going at it. But then as I started doing that more and more often, I also started to have a chance to explore the deeper questions which became really important as I started to explore my own sense of identity, my sense of heritage, not only who we have been, but who we can become. And so poetry was so important for us because when you're dealing with so many elements of American history, but don't get taught in the classrooms, for example, particularly Asian American history, then sometimes these stories that you come across come to you in a nonlinear fashion. You might get a story from the 1980s one day, a story from the 1970s, the next, and so the poems at least allowed you to start capturing those moments as they came and maybe one day you'd have enough to put it into a more traditional prose order and to figure out what's going on with the story of our journeys. Very well said. Thank you very much, Brian. You authored eight books so far. I only authored seven, so you are much more hardworking. But you work a period of more than 100 publications globally, including Australia, Canada, England, Scotland, Germany, France, Singapore, Hong Kong, Korea, Chile, Pakistan. And your writing has been translated into so many different languages. I can't believe when I read your bio, Spanish, French, German, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Tagalog, Bengali, and Lao. I confess that I read a lot of translated literature, mostly in European languages and Japanese, but just since I understand English, I don't read translation from English anymore. My question to you is, can literature, particularly poetry, be translated? Can you poems be translated? You know, I think you've had a question, a lot of consideration. And I think about the Chinese-American poet, who has mentioned the Italian notion that to translate is to betray, that you can't help it, but you'll always get something out of the wall. And the way I talk to my students about it, when I'm talking about writing poetry, as you look at something like the Haiku of Basha, where it's just, there's been 17 syllables about a frog splashing into a pond and already there are over 400 translations in English alone and also in other different languages. So I always say to myself, then, you know, just such a simple premise. There are so many ways to read it and to interpret it, but that's actually a joyous thing that we can explore and see all different ways. We can explore something. As for my own poetry, I find that it's challenging to translate it for many people because I happen to be doing a project of trying to figure out, much like Milton in the aftermath of the English Civil War, trying to figure out whatever words that we needed to capture our experience, to capture our journey. It's possible in many instances, those words don't exist. And in other cases, we have to ask yourself whatever words in Mal that can be added into the English vocabulary than someone said for Brian. Why do people need to think about what words in Mal might be added and just go, well, you know, if we can add an important word like cockets or sushi, or we can add a premise like a ninja, for example, to the American vocabulary, you can add bagels and croissants. Then surely, as we go through our own experience, then we can ask ourselves, what can sub-ID mean to someone? It's like, no, what does it mean to be DJI, to be happy, and to explore that? Does that mean the battle catch on like Asta la vista, baby? Who can tell? But that's the joy of the American experience, then is that we get the chance and the freedom to try it out and see who it fits for, some, if not everyone. Excellent. I will say that you sound both like a point and also a literary critic, because you put a lot of theoretical thinking into your literary practice. As Chief Justice John Roberts, you know, because I'm lawyer, I like to quote judges. Chief Justice John Roberts once said, as a jurist, I don't read law review articles because they are irrelevant to the judicial process and the law practice. But what about literary practice? Do you, as a point, read literary theory and literary criticism? You write and you create, but do you care about the theory and criticism? That's a wonderful question, and I think the disappointing answer for many people will be that I will take a glance at it, but I'm trying not to take it too deeply too seriously then to quote the old American film, The Big Lebowski, when Jeff Bridges goes, that's just your opinion, man. The problem that I find is that particularly as we work with historically underserved communities and audiences or communities who are refugees, immigrants, and so on. In my own community's case, in 45 years, we had fewer than 45 books by a community of nearly half a million. And so in this case, I've said to myself, if we spend so much time on literary criticism or literary theory, for example, we'll be second guessing ourselves trying to create these perfect texts then for a community that's already changing, a readership that's already changing, that's not law, that's not Asian American, and that's an interest in premise then, but I said, no, the more important thing is that we just all have to start getting our stories out there to value what we have. Maybe over time, we'll think of a better way to say what we have, but no, the number one important thing right now is that as we see so many stories about elders, our families, our friends and neighbors being lost, which could utterly transform life in America and even arguably across the globe, I think we owe it to ourselves to just try and to write. It's like, no, if it happens to fit within an existing theory or an emerging theory of any given point in the day, then that's great, but if it doesn't, well, that's all right, you still have written something, and then we'll just have to wait for the scholars to come up with the idea of where your writing fits into the world. We'll get Stephen King, for example, out over in Maine, friends, people used to think, oh, this is just junk fiction. This is trashy literature. No one should be writing like this. And now he's teaching classes at Ivy League schools and everything else like that because, you know, no one picks up a book saying, oh, he doesn't have a doctor. No one picks it up thinking that he's got these fancy degrees. So true. We have to give ourselves permission to try and to share the best we can from our experiences. So true. And what you just said, two quick comments. And one is Stephen King is one of my favorite authors. And his book about writing really actually was very helpful in my own writing, craft my writing. And I still love Stephen's, one of my favorite Stephen's poems was, Donald Trump is scarier than any of the horror novel I have ever written. And the second about the narrative and the collective efforts, which just reminded me what a Vietnamese author mentioned once discussed a narrative plentitude. So we do need a mass, you know, particularly for the underrepresented groups, Southeast Asian literature, there are plenty out there, but it's not appeared in plentitude. So we should push for narrative plentitude to be recognized. I appreciate your insights. You have done your job. You've done your job terrifically. You've served twice as president of the science fiction poetry association. And I want to hear a little bit more about that. And you'll establish the law American writer summit in 2010 to support emerging authors, you advocate nationally on clearing unexploded weapon from the Vietnam war and currently contaminate over 30% of the laws 50 years later. So your title on our show is point author and advocate. I think that is quite accurate to describe your role. Please tell us more about your activism and how it worked with your literary work. President JFK once said, if more politicians, new poetry and more points, no politics, I'm convinced that the world would be a little bit better place in which to live. What's your comments? That's an excellent question. And I think JFK has a great, I think at the same time, there's always been a conversation in our community that, you know, when you mix poetry and politics, who I forget that poetry or you get bad politics. In worst cases, you get both. And I think that's a little bit cynical. I find myself saying that in fact, but poets are essential to democracy. And if you really want kind of that canary in the coal mine to see how well your democracy is functioning, you need to see what's happening for poets and how they're making their way through your community, through your society. As poets, for example, we don't really have a lot of set of requirements, say compared to a full dance and choreography show, music concert or anything else like that. Oftentimes, it's a very solitary experience. Just you may be a traveling companion or so. Then you're going through all levels of society from very wealthy to very poor. We serve as the eyes of our community. And at the same time, I think that comes with that responsibility to use our poetry to speak against injustice, to advocate for the best of what we're reaching for, even if we imperfectly reach for that. I think the question was that occurred to me this, but I've seen a great many prose writers write burial, wondering about the issues that concern them most. But as we saw in my own work, then time and time again, I felt that I've made some of the most effective change, being able to capture something in 15 to 30 seconds. So poet Lee Young used to talk about it all about that line per line, inch per inch, what the human soul is compressed into a line of poetry that in any other literary form. And I tend to agree with that, although I talk a lot about it, that in the end, in the final question, what makes it onto a page and the paper, you have to be kind of at least a point in our position. And at the same time, have the ability for that poem to speak to the present as well as to the future. I actually had a great conversation the other day with some friends of mine, but I have come to view poetry as a bit of a time travel in that once you write it down, a really good poem, type of poem that changes your life and that changes your community and even arguably your nation or your world is one that meets the needs of the people at this particular point in time. But it'll also come again, and people will find your poem when they need it most, oftentimes when you least expect it, centuries later, decades later, you name it. But that's the joy of the journey. Absolutely. It's one for experience in reading poetry. I started my, you know, every child was a point, every child was an author. I wrote a lot of poems when I was a teenager. I still, now looking back, I said, wow, that's pretty good. I probably wouldn't be able to write that good, you know, but the poetry is still pretty different. It's, and looking at different literary genre, you know, poetry, poetry, I say, you know, and novella, novel, you know, no fiction, no fiction. Look at all these different, why you choose a poem and to be your primary tool to express yourself as an author. That's a great question. I think there are many movies in Taiwan. I think it was that poetry was the form that, as we will rebuild in our lives in the aftermath of the, of a love civil war and the Southeast Asian wars of the 20th century, I think the question that came to mind as I was doing, working in our community, rebuilding and with my fellow refugees and immigrants was that, you know, a lot of focus was being given to preserving and recovering the traditional arts at the time. Dance, music, theater, all the complicated arts, but at the same time, I saw that there was very little work being done, people trying to be a strong advocate for the role of poetry in our lives and that was something where I guess I saw that, you know, history has shown that in this time that what we see, you know, certain things are going to always come up, that you're going to have, let's see, the memoirs come up and we have a lot of people writing their short stories, their movies about their family's journey, but the question is what's going to be the future that we can see ourselves in? How do we imagine that? And that's where the poetry journey came in. Excellent point. Every point is a time traveler. I agree. And you moved to Minnesota in 1998 to work on Southeast Asian refugee issues and the arts and we are very fortunate to have you serve on the council of Asian Pacific Minnesotans. Do you have travel plans? Do you consider Minnesota your permanent home? I absolutely consider Minnesota my home. I think it was something that after coming there, Minnesota gave me a chance to see my life and my community in a way that I hadn't initially considered even all the possibilities that I had grown up with in Minnesota was a chance to see that both dreams could come true, that the community out there really cared for one another. And it's like Minneapolis and especially not Minneapolis where I've lived for a better part of my time in Minnesota has its challenges, but every great city has its challenges, as I told one of my students on top of that post. But I don't think a city ever really becomes a city until it's produced its first poets. And I agree because people take pictures of your city all the time. They will make a little home videos and you know, you've been right stories about it, but it's when you take that time out to have to make a poem, then that's something special. And especially for Asian Americans in our community and for voices who have just started to add their family's journeys into it, it becomes all the more important. We may pass by that cherry spoon over by the highway day in and day out. For example, it's not just a landmark. The question is, how do you use your poems? How do you use your stories to make that a part of your community's adventure, your community journey? What are the landmarks that we have? And you think about those old songs, but do you know the way to San Jose or I left my heart in San Francisco? For example, what's the song that you associate with Minneapolis? What's the song that you associate with the other cities in Minnesota from an Asian American perspective, even an our American perspective? So many different voices still have a chance to try and make that poem, that song, but really speaks to us all. Carl Sandberg talks about Chicago, the architecture of the world. It's like, no, the question is, but what do we associate or what do we connect with Minneapolis? And I think there are great many candidates already, but there's still room for so many more. Great. And I love Minneapolis. I love to see this. And that is my home too. I have planned to retire here and die here. And I'm glad you may come in for the home. We normally end up our show with two questions to our distinguished guest. The question one is advice, question two is recommendation. So question one, if you were to give you advice to yourself in your 20s time travel permitted, what would you say? I'd say take more of those risks sooner. It's okay. That part of being a good part of America is that you take that risk and that you dare to reach for something great. Once you give yourself a chance, amazing doorways open up for you and you learn a lot. Open your failures and successes. Great advice. And that may add that what you just said is remind me President Biden once said, if I can summarize United States in one war possibilities and take a calculated risk, it's also the same advice we hear from our previous guest, an Indian-American executive. But I think probably take a calculated risk is United States might be rewarding in a positive way, but to take a calculated risk or even take any risk in an authoritarian regime or somewhere else might not be a very good idea. So that's the difference between the United States and the rest of the world. Anyway, the last question that we have for you is I'm not going to ask if you have any specific author or point to influence you because I believe that one particular author influence another particular author is nonsense. Everybody has absorbed the classics from contemporary genius as well. But I was wondering if you have any free read author free read point, and then we'd like to recommend it to our audience. I've been thinking about that question on long and it's like, you know, and I think it would be too long to rattle it off. And I'd also have too many different poets and authors coming after me if I didn't mention them on it. And in fact, I think I'm going to actually give them my better advice for everyone for this will just simply be I love poetry and poetry has been the leading dynamic of my life for over 30 years as a writer now. And the thing that I would say is that much like Mark Twain says I never let education or school stand in the way of good education. So too, the thing is that I would tell readers don't give up on poetry, but you may run into a poem you don't think that you like or that you don't get right now. That's all right. A lot of us run into those poems, but the thing is is that like a good newspaper event, and just keep looking around and the odds are you will find the poem and the poet whose work speaks to you. And if you don't then go ahead and try your own hand at it and add to that great conversation. There's poems about baseball, there's poems about hockey, there's poems about science fiction and poems about I'm just getting a good clam chowder out there. You'd be surprised what kind of verse can change your life if you let it into your life. It's not always perfect, but it's worth exploring. And that's part of the greater thing. It's not always about finding the one perfect poem for your life, but it's about finding the joy in looking and that can make all the difference. Excellent point. For me poetry is time travel. A poem is primarily related to time. And just what your poetry, I read some of them and I was blown away. And I can't memorize them, but just to remind me, one of the short poems I read long time ago when I was young, I couldn't understand the meaning. Now I'm middle ages. Now I quite understand time and have a strong sense of time. And your poetry reminded me a lot about, you know, the short poem I read long time ago. I'd like to share with you. It's from Sorbetole. Everyone stands along at the heart of the world, first by ray of sunlight. And then suddenly it's evening. Of course the original was in Italian. And this is an English translation, but it's pretty accurate, I would say. And suddenly it's evening and it's time. Poetry make us immortal. Poetry make time froze. And I really appreciate your being a poem, a point and a writing poem and also advocate for the under represented. It's quite a thrill to have you on the show, Brian. Thank you so so much. Thank you.