 Good day my lovely listeners. You are listening to the 40 Autie podcast. Tune in every week to explore inspiring stories and insightful information that dive head-first into the world of autism and mental health. With all those tantalizing tongue twisters out of the way, let's get into the show. Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the 40 Autie podcast. Thank you for coming back today. This is the third episode that I've done. So we're on the roll. We're getting there. So we're just gonna have a chat today to Zalea who has struggled a bit with mental health difficulties and we met at university and we had a little bit of a chat there and she said that she might consider coming on the podcast. So Zalea, how are you doing? Yeah, I'm good. Have you, are you excited to be on your first podcast? Yeah, yeah, it's I think, yeah, it's a it's a new experience to keep it up. Interesting new experience. I know it can be a little bit nervy sometimes to come on and chat, especially when you know that you've been recorded. I find it, I still find it a little bit stressful. So it's a learning experience for me as well, to be honest. So do you want to give everybody a little bit of a overview of what you do now or what you did recently and a little bit of the mental health difficulties you struggle with? Yeah, at the moment I'm in between things, but before that where we met in Manchester, uni, I went for exchange from Amsterdam. That's where I've been studying and yeah, like a few years ago, I think now, I don't even remember, I was diagnosed with ADHD and after that I had a burnout and and then severe depressions, but it's realized all interlinked and and I was also diagnosed with like a milder depression, it's like this, I don't know, this is the Pina, I don't know the exact name in English, but it's a long-term milder version. Okay, yeah, I think I feel, I think I feel I've heard about that before, I don't really know much about, I think, dyspenia or something, maybe, who knows? Just the name, yeah. So that's more of kind of a mild drop in mood. Yeah, I didn't realize it until, like, I went to several therapy sessions for several reasons and then one of the outcomes was that, and I was like, I didn't even, I didn't even know and but yeah, but that's the start when you, it's it's not like that's the thing about labeling, it's not about the label because I don't necessarily hang on or believe in them, but it's about that you like realize, oh wait, there is something going on and what can I do about it because you only experience a world for your own reality and then, yeah, it is helpful to just so that you know that there is something that you can possibly try and do something about like for the labeling, yeah, I get that because I think, I think like, especially in our culture or our society nowadays, people have a, people feel like there's a need to label every single thing about them, even if it's not really giving them that much of an issue but I do think that a lot of the new sort of diagnoses and all those kind of things, you know, like the increase in anxiety and depression and stuff, I think they are very helpful just as, just because, you know, before people didn't really know about them that much or they didn't realize that they had this type of issue and I think sometimes having a label can help in that way but it's just about like not getting bogged down with it, I think, or getting too obsessed with all the labels and stuff, I get that, yeah, so do you want to talk a little bit about how ADHD affects you, you know, when you got diagnosed and why you got diagnosed and stuff? Yeah, that's a, yeah, that's, yeah, it's not a funny story but maybe a bit, like I, I'm like in my family it is, like my sister was diagnosed when she was a child, she was very hyperactive, I was not that much hyperactive, I was more a dreamer still but then it was, they didn't recognize me and so it was a few years ago I got a head concussion and so, and it didn't, yeah, after two years it was still a problem so I needed to, and during the time I needed to refill it, is it like to get back up, like to, yeah, to recover? Yeah, exactly and so I got physiotherapy and normal therapy for that and that's where she, my therapist, she sent me, she was like, okay, wait, okay, and then she recognized signs of ADHD and she sent me to a specialist and then there, yeah, and she made the diagnosis about it and I was like, oh wait, hey, it makes sense, like if you look back in your life, you're like, aha, okay, that's, and yeah, because what often happens with certain, yeah, disabilities is that you get, yeah, you lose trust in yourself or you are mad at yourself because you can't do something and then, but it's, yeah, but you are not really able to and it makes sense, makes me more, like, let go and like, okay, wait, it's, because we can also be very harsh on ourselves and especially like what you'd like, what I would do is like, when you go, for example, studying and at first, you know, I would go with friends but I, and I was like looking at people and they were like, sitting and studying for hours and I just couldn't, I just, so you had a lot of difficulty with like concentration or, now how did that affect like your studying them? Because obviously, it's going to be a little bit harder to stay down and work when you've got all these racing thoughts and different things distracting you everywhere. Yeah, so I don't know how I, how fast I, it took me longer than usual, took me, especially things that need like more concentration and also that you don't get out, like all your potential because you're just, just finishing the work you need to do and not because, it's because you have to do it and not, so it is a, yeah, it's not easy. It's a bit of a difficult, it's very difficult. I think like, I think, because I struggle quite a bit with uni. I, in my first year, I was, I was pretty much quite heavily depressed for, and anxious for a, for a large proportion of my time at university. And in the first year, I was sort of coming up from high school and all that and I was doing all the work, but I was feeling absolutely terrible all the time. Very suicidal, very, very down. But then, then I sort of, when I got further into university, I sort of felt like there was no, you know, there was so long to go until I finished and all the stresses of the deadlines and the all the, all the work that you need to do and all the things. And I, I agree with you, like, I just started completing the work just because I needed to complete it rather than trying to do the best that I could because, you know, it just seems so far away from me, you know, as soon as I started a project, I'd have maybe one or two, two or three days, maybe even a week where I would do really well and concentrate and stuff. Then I got all those intrusive thoughts that really made it difficult to stay on task. But I can imagine that, you know, having, having ADHD would make it difficult as well, especially when, you know, you're saying about all the other things that you've been struggling with. How were the, God, my memories, memories fleeting, what were the other things that you said, which were the other difficulties that you had? By the way, I'm sorry that you had to go through that as well. And it's, yeah, it's, yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, let's keep on track. No, making plans. Like, for example, so I got therapy specifically for ADHD afterwards. And so that was a more of a better insight in, okay, what are the things that I don't see myself, but I'm struggling with and that's making plans or making something in smaller chunks. And like, I was like, stressed all the time, but also overwhelmed, because I would have like, oh, do something. How am I going to do that? I, to, yeah. You get into like, fault loops. And if there's something that you have a problem with, and you just keep thinking about it over and over and over, do you find that? It was more like, what my reaction is that I would run away from it. It will make it even more stressful that I would know like, oh, I have to do something. And, and I didn't know, oh, how am I going to do that? And then I would ignore it. And then they would got more stressed and anxious. And, and yeah, but it's, yeah, exactly. It's about it's you, you make it it's some because you what it did is that you an underlying thought processes that you think that you cannot do it. So that's what you believe under all these, all the other thoughts. So that's the core issue. And, and, and because of that, you don't start doing it. And then, but what happens is then, and then, but eventually you do it, you actually do it. And, but then you prove to yourself that you that you can do it. But then it's, it's just a pattern that it repeats again. And it's a freaking mindfuck in that way. Yeah. So you think that like negative thoughts are quite a big, big part of the struggles that you had. I don't even think thoughts, but it's, it is because some things have manifested already inside of you. So the thoughts have already become your belief system. And, but yeah. Yeah, I can see that. So it's more like one thing that I found with being depressed just for like, so long, because I've had it for about eight years now, quite, quite badly. And I think one of the difficulties of having it for so long, or having it for any sort of extended period of time is that those negative ways of viewing life and yourself and the mindset that you have towards stuff is very, it's affected by the condition. So it's, it, it sort of ingrains itself into you. And you've, I don't feel normal when I'm happy anymore, because I feel like part of me is, is, is depressed Tom, you know, negative, depressed, cynical, nihilistic Tom. That's, that's like what I see myself as. And whenever I'm not like that, I feel weird and wrong. Very relatable, very relatable. Yeah. It's, yeah, because it's, because we don't realize because you don't, that's what the thing is. I didn't realize that I was so down because it's also the mask you put on to the outside world is just a happy, yeah, that's, that's what I did is that you, because, because that's the difficult part is that you don't show your inner world. So you, because you don't, because I was at a point in life, I was so scared that people would notice that something was off that I would like open up anymore, or I would keep it very casual. Because I was like, this is now, I think, yeah, two years ago, until then, that people will start asking questions about like, how are you doing? And what is that in the background? Oh, that's my sister's dog. Oh, it sounds like some kind of lizard. Calm down, doggy. What's, what's, um, what's his name? Is it a girl or a boy? Yeah, yeah, that's, that's Susie is a girl. Susie, calm down, girl. Oh yeah, so that's, that's different. What I want to point out, maybe this is a good example, a belief system and the thought processes that, um, like as if in society, you're only accepted and allowed when you're like, happy and, um, when, um, so when you're doing well and, but when it's not the case is like, as if you're a burden, that's what I believed. And, um, yeah, it's, we don't really talk about generally about when, yeah, I don't know, it's, I find it difficult. Difficult that you can't. So it's not normal for you to, you don't feel comfortable sharing it. Like if someone asks you, how are you doing? And you say, oh, I'm actually doing really horrible right now. I can't cope with anything. I'm stressed. I'm stressed with uni work. I can't seem to do it and keep getting caught up in negative thought patterns and I can't seem to get myself out of this. And I'm starting to feel like what's the point in anything? You can't really say that. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. And in life, it was also that like I had to be my like own emotional support. And, um, and yeah, so, so then the person you go to is yourself. And, uh, so you start to, you try to deal with yourself, but there are certain things that you just cannot do by yourself. And when you start opening up, that's what I learned and still learning that, um, that other people might have an answer or they just to have someone listening to you. And, but also to realize, oh wait, I'm not alone or also like so many others that, um, that have been through this or are going through it or have maybe not in the same way, but the different, but some other stuff. Yeah. And then all human experience is not only joy and happiness. It's also sadness and grief and yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the whole emotional spectrum. It is, but I do definitely agree that we have a culture that, um, doesn't place much, much importance on trying to help friends out, you know, if, um, even, even some of, some of the friends that I'm, I'm quite close to if that there are some people who I can go to and just say, I'm doing, I'm having like a really tough time. Can we just come just talk about it? It might make me feel a bit better. Can we go do something? But for a lot of my friends, um, a lot of like the people that I, you know, go about and do stuff, not necessarily talking depth about anything. There is, there is no sort of tolerance for it. There's no like, it's sort of like they, they shy away from you because you, they think that you expect them to fix it or something rather than just to listen and, you know, just offer it, offer a shoulder. I think that's one of the, the difficult bits for it. But I think a lot of people don't really understand how to react to what to do. Um, and I think, I think most of the stuff that should be going out is how to help people with mental health difficulties as well as, as people having problems discussing it openly as well. Would you agree with that? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I had friends who were like, still who are holding space and, and, and they want to like, but it's also, I think in my case, it's more that I don't, um, I've been afraid to do it more because, um, like from my past, like when you open up to people that, that, yeah. So when you don't like, when you open up to the wrong people, it can, it can make you like withdraw even more. And that's something I'm dealing with. That's one of the things I'm dealing with to learn to, to open up again to, to the right people. Yeah. And, and, and yeah. Some people take advantage of it. Yeah. And then Europe and the SDC. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. But it's, it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful thing still like to go. It's, I've learned is that because I, when I got like very depressed, uh, was started like two years ago, like I'm, I'm doing well at the moment compared to that period. But it was, if I look back, was also a blessing in a way that because of that, I had to come to a place where I, I was like, I don't give a shit about anything. And that gave me the, because I didn't care anymore. Give, give me like, I was like, okay, to change things and, um, to, to grow. Yeah. Yeah. Because you need to get, you need to have a comment. Yeah. Because it means that this way of living of this way of being is just not working. And then, and then you start slowly changing things. And, and then it's, because you, you shouldn't expect something. I was like, okay, you want immediate results, but it, it isn't like that. It's a, it's a slow process, but it's, but it is a, some things happening. And I think, I think a lot of it is, it's not like a linear thing. So it's not like you get great. It's more like you get, you get a bit, bit better. And then the slump that you have, the, the, the period of, of maybe height and mental difficulties is a little bit higher. But then you go up again, it's a little bit higher. And then sometimes it goes down even further than before, but then you come back up and it's more of a, it's, it's, it's not like you just start feeling a little bit better every day and day. And you keep, you keep going up like that. It's, I think a lot of it is, it's, it's very hard to keep track of how stuff is helping you. And sometimes it can get a bit hard to once, once you, once you go through doing all of that stuff and you, you learn all the different things of coping and improving your life, then and the longterm, if you look at, look back at it from maybe like one or two years, you can see that you are getting a little bit better. But I definitely think immediately there's no benefits to just thinking positively or, you know, that, that old cliche of just trying not to think so negatively. Yeah. But what I, what I did is that I did like obsessively, like there's also maybe too much self reflection and just sitting there with my thoughts and looking, okay, what, what am I thinking about? And so I would like write a lot about it and see, okay, what is it that I'm thinking about? And I would like interrupt my thought like what I'm doing now I'm like, also I'm sometimes like, okay, that I'm, I'm like, oh wait, no, I'm not like, and then interrupting my own thought process, but it's, but that's, you keep reflecting on yourself and seeing what you're doing at every point in the day. Or, or look at observing, okay, what, what does this trigger? And, and it's, yeah, it's, um, and, um, but yeah, what can I say about it is that it is, yeah, it is what it is at the moment. And I know that it's, it is getting better. And, um, and I have moments that still that what you have is that one of the things is I don't, like you don't really look at a future because it's you're such in a survival mode every day that I'm trying to think now about like, oh, what do I, what do I want to do in five years? And I'm like, oh, I haven't, I have no idea. I can't even picture myself in five years. And, um, yeah, that's what I realized just like a few days ago. And I was like, whoa, I'm, it's, yeah, and, and that's part of the struggle because I, because I deep down is there's something that, um, it's something that you don't believe that you're gonna make it that far. And, um, yeah. I completely get that. And is that one of the reasons why you contacted me about doing the podcast? Yeah, it was that, um, because, yeah, I find it difficult to talk about it. And I hope that someone, maybe like if I can, like, that someone hears it and get something out of it and that will be like, that will be awesome. Because, because I stopped running away from it. And I, um, like feelings of shame and guilt come with it, but it's nothing to be ashamed of. And, and it makes it, yeah, it's part of me and I accept it now. And, um, yeah, by doing this, it's, yeah, coming out in the open, freaking scary, but I had to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's coming out and showing, showing who you are and what you struggle with and what you feel like you're improving on. And it's, it's quite, it's quite a vulnerable thing to do, um, for a lot of people, but, um, I think it's, it's extremely helpful both for, both for like the people who do talk about it and the people who listen as well. Um, so let's go on. I'm getting, I'm getting very interested in, in talking and very in this conversation. I'm completely forgetting about the questions that I've written out. Should probably get on these ones. Okay. What were the, the, the main problems and symptoms of these mental problems that made living difficult? So, for example, with ADHD symptoms, it's that, um, certain things is, um, so for example, with time management or with, um, forgetting stuff, it's, you don't do it intentionally or deliberately. Like you, like you have a good intentions, but when I was living with my ex-partner, he would, um, you would take it personal and, um, or, uh, but that was not the case. So it can be a, um, so you can have, uh, what do you call, uh, yeah, miscommunication about stuff. And, um, yeah. That's a, certain things I, I learned to, um, for example, being, um, like with what I did with time was that, um, cause like, yeah, I live in the Netherlands and for example, here being on time is, or like being punctual is very important. So one of the things, like when I was a teenager, I, I had no idea of it at all. So I would be often very late. I would like, miss appointments and I was a total mess with, um, time management. So when I was 18, I was, when I was 18, I was a little bit of ADHD in me. Yeah. We, like, see, yeah, it's, I think certain symptoms could be, uh, I think what they do is they look at, oh, which symptoms are the most, um, obvious ones. And then, yeah, I don't know how it works with, with diagnoses, but yeah, but yeah, anyways. Um, so when I moved to Amsterdam, I made a, so I, I, uh, so it also a different place. And I, uh, I, I was living on my own and no one to wake me up, uh, to be somewhere. So I started using a alarm and also like when I'm, uh, like at home and I have to be somewhere, like I would put an alarm and then I don't have to think about it. And then just when an alarm goes off and I'm like, oh yeah, wait, I have to go. And like certain tricks that help, it helps to, uh, make life easier. Yeah. And, um, yeah. And yeah, those, uh, wait, what was the question? Difficult, uh, the main problems, uh, that you have that make daily life difficult. So you've, you've talked a little bit about, uh, how the concentration and the, the ADHD sort of plays into how, how you function in daily life. But what about sort of the more, um, depressive and anxiety kind of side of things? Yeah. That's, uh, yeah, that's, that's the other side because like you put on a mask, a social mask or a different mask, like generally we all have different masks, but to hide, uh, like the inner feelings. So you would like, um, hide to go to places because you feel a certain way. And, um, but the biggest thing I realized what I was doing was not like socially, but what I did to myself and I had to apologize to myself later on, like after everything is that I was rejecting myself because I was doing stuff. I was giving away my power in a way and pretending, pretending, um, yeah, to like also to be socially accepted, to just go with the social way of being. But when I was doing that, I was like rejecting myself. And that's that. And I, and I've, that's, that has been the, uh, yeah, that's, that has been the pride that you have to pay. Like the, yeah. And so you, you sort of put the mask on to feel like you, you sort of fit in, but every time, if you make something that I found is that if you put those masks on and you make friends with that mask on, then you don't really feel like they're your friend. Cause they're just, they're friends with this, this, this mask that you've put on every day and they're not really friends with who you are like inside rather than what you're presenting. Yeah. Would you agree with that? Yeah, definitely. Cause they, they don't, they don't, they don't know you cause they don't, they don't see it. But yeah. And I've been doing it as well as it like as a coping mechanism. And, um, but what happens if you do that for a longer period of time, you lose yourself entirely. And then I, that's, I had to fall really hard to start again, a journey back to myself. And, um, I'm very grateful for that. That's that way you really, when you start to reconnect with yourself, that's, yeah, that, that, yeah, that it's a beautiful thing. Very important thing. Very important thing. Yeah. And life changes and, um, like people fall away, some stick with you cause they, it's, yeah, for me, I see it as the greatest gift. It has, even if it's been very dark and, and difficult, it, it is, um, it gave me back me and that's, and that's what I missed. Yeah. Great. I think that, yeah, I do agree. Like I think when you start to be a bit more open, when you start to tell people how you really feel, do, do what you need to do or tell people how you feel about them. You start, you do lose, you do lose friends, but it's never the friends that you, you need. Like it's, it's never the friends that really are important because if they, if they are to sort of leave and become a bit distant just because you are just expressing how you truly feel and what you think about things, then they're not really your friends. No, exactly. Exactly. Cause real friends are not to be lost. They, that's on the other side, like I have also friends who, who were spending with me and are, even when they don't know exactly, like, cause I, like it's like, yeah, they, they get a bit, bit by bit, but, but they're supporting me and, and, um, and that's what, what it shows as well that, um, cause who, who is there for you and who is not. And, um, yeah. Yeah. And, for example. Sort of weans, weans it out, sort of make, leaves the quality friend behind, gets rid of the ones that just sort of want just to be, just have fun and be around anybody rather than particularly you. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, sorry, go. Yeah. There's, there's one, like also with anxiety, I still have it. And I, I don't really know, cause I know some, some, what triggers it can be like, um, um, places with a lot of people and I can get very anxious and, and then it's a very bodily reaction. And, um, uh, oh yeah. But no, that's not what I wanted to go in. Yeah. Wait. Um, one of the other. So what I came across is that when you open up, I had that within my family, I, I did that more and more. And, um, is that like, what I sometimes got us feedback is like, don't be so sensitive or like you're so freaking emotional and, um, it's as if, as if, uh, to be, because from like my family, for example, is not, we don't really speak about emotions and, um, and it's, uh, like we support each other, but it's, it's not in an emotional way, just like, yeah. And it's, um, I, I completely get that. Like, um, a lot, a lot of people who don't actively talk about how they feel about things. As soon as somebody else starts talking about their emotions, they think that they are sensitive just because they are making people aware of how they feel rather than just, they're just open. I get that a lot and some people, some people that maybe weren't so good of a friend to me would. So I'll be a bit patronizing just because I was telling people, I felt I was saying that I was anxious and depressed and all of that. And they just took from that, that I was just being sensitive and that I was overreacting. And I think that can be quite difficult, especially like, especially as you said, if that's how your family works, you don't really talk about that stuff. It can be very difficult. Um, yeah. There are things like some things are just like, it's not changing other people or changing. Um, because you can't do that. It's, it's what I want to go with it is that to find for yourself, like what I, I've been like with writing, I've been dealing with a lot of emotions with, with painting or, um, walking, going in nature, like nature is very soothing. It's, um, so it's, we don't choose like in which families we're born or, um, what our circumstances are, but like you can choose how to deal with it. And that's, um, and yeah, and, and there are ways that, that you can deal with it. That's, uh, but that's also, I think with emotion is that, because I'm learning how, like because of what, what I've been going through, uh, about, about this, but for example, if my family, they never learned it and, and, and you can't like, you don't know what you don't know. And, and that it can be threatened to people because when you're more in tune with your feelings and, um, it's, can be alien to people as well, because they don't know what you're talking about. And yeah, it's not, it's not, it doesn't feel normal to them. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, so we talked a little bit about, uh, mental health difficulties, how effective, how effective do you at university? Um, did your difficulty start around school, school time, like high school, secondary school? Um, I think, um, primary school, I, I, I had no problems in secondary school. It was just, um, there were a few things, but it was, it was easy. So it was not, it was not causing problems. Um, because that's, uh, it, it would, like if it had been, if it had known then, but that's not the case because it can't be, but, um, is that way that that's the thing when you're doing well at school, um, they like teachers or they, they don't realize, oh wait, there is something going on or, um, uh, so in that case it was never registered. So and at university was, like it was not necessarily, like I, I realized I had a problem, but I, um, yeah, that was my fault back then. I, I didn't tell my teachers about it and then, um, but what was helpful was when I started opening up about it, that one of my teachers also, um, he was my coordinator, for my, one of my courses that he had, um, um, he had ADD and, um, so we would talk about, um, how, like he would help, like give me advice on, okay, how can you, um, like some techniques to, to study, but one of the things that my university offered is that, that was for me, like, yeah, I can say life changing in a way. They, there was this woman, one of the therapists at university, she started a group therapy for ADHD and ADD and one of the things she did. And, um, so that was in, that, that was beautiful because then you also get the mirror of other people, of other students dealing with the same problems and, and, um, yeah. And things, it makes you feel less alone and gives you different ways of looking at it and different ways of coping with it. Yeah. And also that, oh wait, is it like, um, they get you, that, that's the whole, uh, yeah, I think even after, if you're to be hurt, to be understood in, um, yeah, that, that it's, it was very nice, very lovely to have experienced that. Yeah, I can imagine. So feel, if you go, so obviously they're like, these cases are not everybody and everybody struggles with them to different extents, but most of the time, if you do have these problems, people can sort of listen and be understanding and stuff, but there's, there's no one really like other people who struggle as well in this, in a set or have the same sort of difficulties and ways of thinking. And I feel like just being, being autistic and being on the spectrum like myself, it's, it's, it's good just to talk to people who get, get me and get what it's about and have the same sort of problems that I do. And just now and again, but just to have like a little group, a little sort of support group for anything can just be great cause you feel like you're, you're a part of society again. You feel like you're in a community and you don't feel like you're isolated on a little desert island surrounded in storms of, and waves and thunder and it's very, um, it's very nice just to have people around that you can count on and people that understand you. Yeah, definitely. I find it's like what you're doing with the things that you do that you, you open up as well. I, I, it's, it's, it's so brave and to, and yet to hear the other side of the story and, um, cause in, in the society tries to like box, box people, okay, this is how um, a normal person is, but yeah, what's normal, but that's the story of like a whole different conversation. Um, but yeah. I'm okay with the word normal. I'm okay. I don't want to, I like being weird. That's good with me. I'm very aware, I'm very aware of the weirdness that I, that I exhibit. You know, like people are probably look at me, like if I'm just in a situation, they probably think, oh, just like, oh yeah, he's, he's weird. He does this, this kind of thing. It's like, I know, I, I, I'm looking at myself all the time. I know exactly how I'm weird and what I'm doing. That's a bit strange. I just don't care. I was going to keep doing it. Yeah. That's, that's, that's a great, that's what I've been learning, like to love yourself and to, to like yourself and that's, and yeah, to be in a place that you're like, I don't, we can care exactly. I do care about myself. Yeah. Definitely. Okay. So, um, we, I think we've touched a little bit on, I think we touched a little bit on the things that you've done, um, in terms of like mindset and being open and going to, you know, like talking to your teacher that had ADHD. Are there any sort of other remedies or things that you've tried that have been fairly helpful that you'd want to talk about, whether it be like medications, supplements, exercise, mindfulness books, anything like that. I know we have thoughts about it a little bit. Yeah. So I had therapy and then, um, I, I have medication. I had like, first made to pay me a date and then dexamphetamine. Okay. And then, um, What, what, what do they do in terms of, like, what were they for and what were they like? They are, um, they help with concentration and, um, but the, um, yeah, I don't really like the side effects because they make me even more anxious. And, um, Are they like, are they more of like a, are they ADHD medications? Yeah, yeah. Oh, so that they're more like stimulants and, um, I know, I know that sometimes ADHD medications can be a bit strange for some people who just read about the, read about them because they are a lot of the medications are stimulants. And it seems like giving someone with, um, high attention deficit, hyperactivity disorder, a stimulant isn't going to be very helpful. Yeah. Yeah. In a way it is. And then on the other side, it's, it's also with the mood swings. It's, that's not really nice. Oh, mood swings as well. Yeah. So it's, I think with, but I, I've been like the, not that long, but it's, um, it depends on how like what I'm going to do, but eventually I don't want to use them anymore of I want to get, stop using them. I did a, like I did mindfulness and meditation courses. Um, yeah. It's exercise helps to get like, to get like the, um, the hypen is out of you. And, um, but it's, um, yeah, but then like that's, yeah, what is it? Cool. I've, certain things is that also is like when something interests you, something very, and that keeps your attention, then, then it's, uh, you don't need, you don't need anything. It's more like it's when, cause your attention gets, when I'm sitting somewhere, like every small thing that's happening around is, you notice it. So it's like everything gets noticed. And, um, yeah, I, I get that a lot. Like I think, um, in some, some ways ADHD crosses over with the signs of autism. Cause if I hear anything, it instantly distracts me. It's like, it's almost at the same volume as like, if I'm talking to someone and they're like a meter away from me and something happens in the corner about 10 meters away from me. I'm like, oh, what's that? And I turn my head to see what it is. And then I instantly forget what I'm talking about. I find, I found that it's very fun. Makes life interesting, doesn't it? You have to constantly ask, where were we? Where were we talking about? Maybe get yourself, when you're, when you're, when you're dog, so when you're done started listening, I was like, yeah, I'm like a puppy sometimes. Yeah. There's this thing called hyper focus and that's something. Yeah. I just have it like when, when sometimes you get in the zone and you lose track of time and you just like go into your work and that's sick. Cause that's, it's, it's, it's crazy. Then how you can, how you, like, I don't, but the hype focus just happens once in a while. It doesn't happen. It's just getting, getting into the zone first. You got to get into it first. That's, I think that's another crossover with autism as well. We have that sort of hyper focus thing. This is one funny time when I was at uni and I was doing my projects and I was really excited about it. I was doing like this media, media projects and one of the, the sub projects and that was that I had to make a magazine and it meant that I had to use like mate loads of diagrams and do some like writing like a blog post and I got really into it and one day I spent the entire day working on it. I think I went to like the toilet once. I had, I didn't eat. I didn't drink any water and I was like, why do I have a headache? It's like, oh yeah, I haven't eaten today. Oh God. Like, so I get that hyper focus thing, but sometimes it can be good but then other times you sort of burn yourself out because you're like, I want to do this. I want to, want to get it sorted. Yeah, balance but yeah, but then you don't go into balance because you go into, into different zone of, of yeah, it's interesting how, how it can work. It's like, but it's, I think the human, like, it just, that like your brains, like, every, everyone's brain is probably wired differently, but then I think what we have is that it's wired even more differently because that it stands out. Yes. Yeah, definitely. If you could give maybe two or three pieces of advice for people who are currently struggling with mental health conditions, what would you do? What would you say? Okay, yeah. Yeah. I was scared it might be like open up, reach out to someone and it, it, it can be like someone at school or uni or neighbor, like someone just like reach out. Don't like, I know a lot of people suffer in silence. I've met people and I realized, especially men who, who suffer in silence and bottle it up and keep it inside. Yeah. Use it, like go through it. Don't ignore it. Go, go, go through it and embrace it and, and use it like, and wear it as a crown. It's not something to be shamed of. It gives you depth. It's, it makes you, you and yeah, and that's all right. That's fine. That's, that's good, good too. I think that's, that's a good little roundup to the episode. I apologize. We have got like a little bit far. We have been recording for quite a while and I have not got through every single question on the podcast. Let's round it up anyway. Thanks for coming on and is there, is there any like social medias or anything that you want people to know about? So if, if they want to talk to you or follow your work or anything like that? Well, yeah. Yeah, I use Instagram. You can, yeah, if you, yeah, I want to talk about something you can reach me on Instagram. Okay. That's, that's it. Yeah. What's your Instagram? That's 20, oh, it's, it's Z U M underscore M L E Y A. Okay. And I'll put that in the description. So just make it a little bit easier. But yeah, if you enjoy the podcast, guys, make sure to share it with your friends, share with your family, whatever. And hopefully I should be getting another podcast out in another two weeks. I'm trying to do it every two weeks. It's hard to keep a routine sometimes, but I'm sort of getting into the flow of it. So that's, that's all looking good and positive. If you haven't already checked out my YouTube channel at Aspergers growth, I make a lot of videos on autism, mental health, a bit more of a sort of rigid video style format. So go check those out. You can find my podcast on pretty much anywhere, Apple Music, Spotify, maybe a few others as well, but they'll all be in the description. Social medias, of course, Instagram, Facebook at Aspergers growth and Twitter, where I do midday matters, live streams every day at around 12pm UK time, midday. And we're going to be talking about different sort of topical issues and stuff. So go check that out if you want to. If you have any ideas of what you want to talk about, maybe you want to be on the podcast. Make sure to drop me an email on Aspergers growth at gmail.com in the description as well. And Zalea, thank you so much for coming on. And how did you find it? Do you feel good? Do you feel like getting this stuff out is helping you at all? Like, thank you for having me. And, yeah, I, I don't know, it's, yeah, I felt like the right thing to do and that's, it's okay. It's very difficult. It's very difficult thing today. So well done, like a lot for that. And I'm sure I will forward you and tell you about anybody who's sort of commented or let you know. And if you want, if you want to send a comment to Zalea, as I said on Instagram, or just, just comment it down and I'll tell her about it as well. But you, you probably help a lot more people than you think you will have from this podcast. So thank you so much for coming on. Anyway, enjoy your day. I hope you hope you're doing good. We'll be next, we'll be on next week, hopefully next, in the next two weeks. God, I'm not rounding this off very well, am I? I'll see you later, guys. So you're doing great. Thanks for listening. Say goodbye. Goodbye listeners. Have a nice day. See you later. Bye.