 Sorry, I'm a little bit late, I'm trying to find, like, so big here. So I'm Robin, from Paris originally, and I'm here to present you about what we do in my company basically, which is called Common, and yeah, in one sentence we are a cooperative for circular electronics. So what does that mean? So yeah, as you know, we still are generally picking in a linear business model, which means exploitation, production, distribution, and then we throw things out and we hop, they are recycled, but actually for e-waste, only 20% of e-waste are collected, so I'm not speaking about recycled, collected, so there is problems, of course, at each and every step of this business model, and particularly with electronic, because e-waste is also the faster growing flow of waste, actually, and we have a big problem with resources. I'm not speaking about environment and working conditions, there's a problem with resources, it's for Indium, I don't know, do you know what is Indium, what does it is for, no? I don't have any specialist about raw material here, no. Indium is to make the screen, the touch screen, right, to make the screen responsive, and as you can see here, we will reach the production peak in 2030, so it's almost tomorrow, right. So how do we do, do you have a solution for that? What do we do when we have no Indium, no more? Come back to Blackberry. So I think that the brainstorm, so some people, they say, when I ask this question, sometimes people say recycling, which could make sense, the problem is when you look in the actual technology that we use for recycling, can you see Indium, Indium is here, so it means Indium at the maximum of the current technology, we can get 10% back. In reality, it's more 1 to 2%. So sadly, recycling is not yet a solution because the technology is not good enough, and because most of the time we don't have modular devices, we put all devices in the mixer, and then we try to take back the raw materials with chemical processes, and we are very good at taking back plastic, but Indium, because it's too small, it's completely diluted with other things, so it's just greenwashing for the moment when Apple tells you that they're recycling plastic. So one thing which is important to understand is that the problem with the leading our business model is that those big companies, the producers, how do they make money? They sell devices, right? But in Europe, the market is already saturated. As you can see here, we've reached a peak, and now each year there is less, it doesn't grow no more, because 90% of the people in Europe, they already have a smartphone, a computer, sometimes two, sometimes three, sometimes a lot in their clubboards. But the producers, they still need to make money, right, they still need to sell, and how do you sell, how do you keep on selling on a market which is already completely saturated? Any answer? Plan of Solicense. You have no choice. Either you diversify your business model, you know, like Google selling data, etc., or you use Plan of Solicense, and the more the market is saturated, the more you have to use Plan of Solicense so that as a consumer, at some point, they need to buy again. Can you hear me well? It's not perfect, right? More way? Not in front, like here, like that? Can you still hear me? Yeah, okay. Okay, better, indeed. So yeah, and how do we, it's like a trap, if you want this business model where you have to keep on selling, the market is already saturated, so you make everything you can so that people they have to buy again, right? They have treated a lot of Plan of Solicense material, so you glue the battery, you know, so you can change your battery, you have to buy a new phone, software, you install a new operating system, and on the old phone, it's too demanding, so you can't use WhatsApp anymore on your phone, you have to buy a new one, and marketing, that we all know. Just an example of hardware and software, Plan of Solicense, in France now we have to use the Reparability, so Reparability Index, you know, and so you see the difference between a fair phone, which is a modular phone, and the iPhone, the fair phone, you can open it, fix it yourself, the iPhone, it's more difficult, and here you have Plan of Solicense, right, with Apple having 20 models since 2013, even more, no, it's not updated, and you can see the note, Apple have been fined 25 million euros for deliberately slowing down other iPhones model, so it's called Software Plan of Solicense, and it's forbidden, so Apple had to pay for that. Yeah, and that's a little slide about how much a phone is used, how long a phone is used nowadays, and how long, you know, to offset the carbon emissions, et cetera, should a phone last at least. So as you can see, the average is three years, no, I think it goes slowly to four years because the devices are, you know, more and more expensive, but ideally the minimum would be 25 years, so you see we are far away, and that's what we try to do at Common, our goal is to make the devices last at least 25 years, so that's interesting, because if you just change the business model from a linear business model to a leasing business model, you change completely the intensive. At Common we are cooperative, and we lease eco-designed devices, right, so we are leasing the devices, so the clients they pay every month, for that all these include in the price of course, but so if you think about it, we earn money because the devices last, right, when new devices break, we have to replace it, we lose money, it's exactly the opposite, right, and on the tree level, like on the modular, so we have to do exactly the opposite of plan of solicence, if we want to earn money, basically, so on the material level, we have to work with modular devices that we can fix easily, on the software level, we have to use with alternative operating system, Linux and Lineage OS and EOS, so that we can flash the device, so we can still use them on old devices, and on the marketing level, we have to make the prices so that the longest you keep the devices, the less you pay, so you see those three levels, we do exactly the opposite, and of course the leasing has also the advantage of collecting 100% of the zero e-waste, because if you pay for a device, you're not going to leave it in your cupboard, you're going to send it back, because you don't want to pay for nothing, so we combine modularity of the products and hardware as a service, which means because the devices, they stay the property of the cooperative, the cooperative has interest to fix them and lease them again, because the cooperative is losing money. So, yeah, the idea is to make a system where everybody has interest to make the devices last longer, and of course, you still make money in this system, the producers are still making money, and if the ones can even lease them directly, Fairphone began to lease directly the devices in the Netherlands, so they still make money, but of course it's way more sustainable, because they have interest to fix the devices, they will create modular devices, and you can fix, if it's modular, you can fix the broken devices with the spares coming from other devices, so not only it is more ecological, because you don't have to produce the spares again, you can use the spares of broken devices to fix the other devices, but it's also more economically, more economically, because you don't have to pay for them, so not only it's more sustainable, but it reduces the cost of the companies, and at Common we decided to do that in the legal framework of the cooperative to put everyone around the table, so the clients can be members in our cooperative, but also the producers and the investors, so maybe the most interesting part is the produce with which we work, so most of you may know Fairphone, the most known modular smartphone in the market from the Netherlands, but there is also producers in Germany actually, Shiftphone, I don't know if you know them, they are close to Frankfurt, and there is a French producer, Crosscall, and from the laptops, Y, it's from Switzerland, Nega IT, it's a mouse, it's also from Germany, and you can also, you know, it's completely modular, and for headset there is Jero Street, and it's an Iser that you know, so yeah, just a very short demo, like normally with a headset, when the jack is dead, you have to throw the whole thing away, right, and here, just put it away, if you have a false contact, you just change this piece here, and you put a new jack with a mic if you need to do home office, so you see, it's smart, because you can also customize, right, in the future, maybe you will never change phone anymore, you will just add new component, like you do on a fix, right, computer, and it's not only more sustainable, more economically, it's also, there is also a lot of advantage for the clients, because all is included in the price, if they need a new battery, if they need, you know, the phone is, the screen is broken, if they have any problem with software, hardware, they just send us a message, and it's already, the support is included in the price, and it's the same for companies, so for companies it's super interesting, because they don't have to hire a technician, you know, they pay, they don't have to buy the devices, they know that if any problems happen, it's already included in the price. So yeah, that's the kind of service we propose, so anything break, configuration, battery replacement, the results are the insurance, if it's stolen or lost, and actually you pay to have someone, to have something which works, you know, so yeah, if at some point the phone really doesn't work anymore, we'll just replace it, yeah, and that's the price, I don't know, in English, Gestaltung, yeah, so each year you pay less and less, but you keep the same level of services, of course, and that's some example of prices for the B2B, so you see it's reasonable, so to say, because of this circular business model, as I said, it's also reduced your cost, because we focus only on a few devices, and so we can fix them with the spares coming from broken devices, so all the spares, we don't have to buy them again, so it's quite reasonable price, yeah, that's a few articles and things we got, a few of our clients, it's interesting actually what Coman is doing, because we are showing that this model works, the big players, they did it Xerox, did it for the printer, B2B printer, like if you are a school or company, you want a printer for Xerox, you don't buy it, they put it, they put the printer at your disposal, you pay pro copy, and they redesigned all printers, you know, so they are modular between each other, so they just, when it's broken, it still belongs to Xerox, and they just put the part which is broken, replace it with another part, and so they really can, they write in their sustainability report that they spare tons and tons and tons of raw material every year, which is true, and the last iPhone, I don't know if you have seen, you can open it back and forth, so you know, also the big players, they are conscious that there is a program with resources, for Apple, for example, you know, the people buying Apple, they are trapped in the ecosystem whatsoever, so instead of buying a new iPhone every two, three years, you know, Apple could just make them pay monthly and redesign, you know, the old production line to make it modular, I guess that's what they should do, you know, just on a logical point of view, and I think that's also what they will do at some point, because there will be a problem with the resources, with China, when you look at, you know, 90% of the raw material they are produced in China, and not with the geopolitical context, yeah, I mean, you know, those people know about it, yeah, exactly, and if you want to know more about common, we are based in Strasbourg, so now in France, Belgium, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and exactly if you can go on our website or ask me questions if you want to know more about it, yeah, do you have any questions? There was one, because there was a German company that contacted us for that, they wanted to do routers as a service, et cetera, for schools, and so we did a small, you know, market study, and actually there is a brand from Switzerland, and they do that, like routers as a service, et cetera, and yeah, so it already exists, and I think they are quite successful. I don't remember the name of the company, I can check afterwards, you can send me an email and I'll check if you're interested, I can find it again, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and so I was just wondering how much, how big of a percentage of the original product can actually last, like five years or 25 years, like, do you repair the parts and then put them in other devices, like, or can you extract the material more efficiently now that you can replace just the screen, can you maybe then retract more of the resources? Yeah, yeah, like I don't know if you've seen a fair phone inside, I'll show you, but you can open it, and it's like a puzzle, right, there is seven modules, and if you just, your mic is broken, you just change the mic, right, if you just choose the battery, choose the battery. So your question is very interesting because as you said, you know, if you're new, for example, what they do in America to force people buying new phones is that they slowly disconnect 2G and soon, you know, the 3G so that you don't have internet no more with your phones, so you have to buy a new one, you know, compatible with 4G and 5G, it's mostly pushed by the, I mean, there is a technology part we can speak about, but it's also software plan obsolescence to force consumers to. So that's where regulation is so important because somewhere in the regulation we have to go further that it's already banned, you know, software-based plan obsolescence, Apple has been fired for it, but then we need to go further and, you know, to also prevent, to consider, you know, forcing people to buy a new phone because 2G or 3G are not supported anymore, that should be also considered as plan obsolescence, you know, we have to go further. But for that, as I said, you know, we need to change the business model because as long as companies rely on selling to survive, you know, there is no other way than plan obsolescence or selling data or things like that, you know, we could think about it, you know. Apple, Google, they also make a lot of money, you know, with Apple stores and selling data, like, you know. But, you know. Yeah, it's basically a regulation, and that's what I suppose, so that's what I'm thinking. Business model and regulation. I think that the richest companies can continue to sue, repair shops, for instance. Yeah. Thank you. The device instead of owning it, the owner of the device is the company who rents it out, come on in this case. That must come with some restrictions to what the user of the device can do. Yeah. What are those restrictions in this case? And also, how can we avoid that if, let's say, the restrictions are not bad for you, but like when Apple starts leasing their device, that they keep a remote to basically actually, like, they could reset the device at a distance, track you, like, it's their device, right? Yeah, that's a good question. Actually, in leasing models, like hardware as a service model, the general condition of sales, they are always very, very, very long, because as you said, you know, you need to, because as you say, the devices, they still are the goods of the companies, and so that's why the companies have to put a lot of limitation to avoid abuse, et cetera, you know. So in our case, you know, we have a few limitations about most, for example, you are not supposed to, I mean, you can install another operating system than Android 11 or EOS, but then the support is not guaranteed anymore. If you install your own version of lineage, you know, or you try to install, I don't know what, you know, you can do it, but you know, we don't provide support anymore because, you know, it's impossible. And there is also limitations on, of course, you know, you can't have your phones stolen five times a year, you know. At some point, we have to make you pay, right? So, yeah, all those considerations, you have to take them in account. Your question about Apple, like, you know, who could be able to control the phones because they're still in the belonging of the company, it's a very good question. And that's the kind of question which has to be regulated in the, either by regulation on the law, you know, we say that's not, it's against privacy, it's not permitted, and also in the general condition of sales. You've got 25 years issue. So it's a common trend that the software and hardware requirements of, like, let's say, websites require more and more memory, more and more computing power, so getting more, more inefficient in some cases. So what's the guarantee that in 25, let's say just five years, the amount of RAM or CPU power that the device that you're renting or leasing is going to be able to handle, like, the same level of, like, usability to the user as it did five years ago because the same websites now take twice as much memory. So you also have, like, plans, like, okay, if the memory requirements are more, you can switch to a better memory. What do you do to the old memory module? So it's kind of the same question as you asked, right, because it depends on the environment. That's true, you know. If tomorrow we say only 5G is supported, everyone has to buy a phone again in this room, you know. So that's why regulation is so important. If you go on our website, it's made in a, it's coded with, I think it's called Leo. It's a static website, and it's super light. It's super fast, and it's super light in terms of size, you know. Is it really possible to regulate all websites to follow the same standard? I think, nowadays, we are at a point where, you know, if we assume a certain amount of sobriety, you know, what is inside here, it's sufficient for common news, you know. If I don't want to have HD or 4K video with my phone, you know, and if I don't want to have photos who are better than a big camera, it's okay, you know. So it has to do with sobriety, right? And if you want to continue to need even more and more and more power and more resources, and then we will have a problem, because as you say, it's impossible then to keep the same hardware and all. I mean, it's more difficult. Yeah, that's a choice, right? We have to make. Is it enough, what we have now? Or... Regulation. You talked about Indium in the beginning. So what do you do with components that come back to common? Because the Indium is still trapped in the e-waste. So does Common have plans for better recycling? We work with the producers, actually. We have a lot of Fairphone 2, which was the older model. And we... So first, we out of Android, Fairphone 2, we succeed to make 20 of them work again, you know. So we're still going to put them in the market, even if the phone is, I don't know, five, six, seven years old. And when it's broken, broken, Fairphone ask us to keep them because they are working on their own recycling strategy. And because it's interesting because it's modular, the recycling rate is a little bit better. Because, for example, you know that in a battery, you have more lithium. So you're going to recycle the battery separately and not to mix it, which is what we do with iPhone. No, they have these big machines, that's true. Sorry. When they are collected. Which is not the case. Why no laptop? Why? Why no laptop? We have also laptops. It's from this company. Why? It's a brand from Switzerland. But no, there is, I don't know if you followed, there is this project from America called Framework. And they want to create... Oh, is it a framework? Wow, amazing. And they want to go as far in the majority that you can change the main board, which is a big step because until now, you couldn't change the main board of the devices. That was the limit point. So we hope that we can work with them because we are super interested to, you know, it's really the future. If I may comment on this. I guess it's common that business notebooks are leased and you can clearly see the quality difference between consumer hardware and business hardware that way because they're meant to be leased. And if possible, not being serviced during that time period because that costs a lot of money. So they are very good quality and they go into aftermarket afterwards. And this is what I always recommend to my friends and family by a professional refurbished notebook. Yeah, yeah, completely. The thing with refurbishment is that it's good, you know, because in the good direction you make lifespan of the devices longer, but it doesn't solve the problem which is at the root, which is business model. So, you know, that's why we serve recycling, refurbishing. It's good, but if we don't attack the problem, you know, it's just part of the strategy of Apple, you know, having a new, they can also afford to bring a new iPhone on the market because they know that the people, they will buy it and they will sell it on the secondhand market. It doesn't solve the problem at the root. There's also Intel, we do the NUC stuff, you know, the NUC boxes and so on. And there's also hardware on the chip, basically, which you can put in into our shell, which is basically a notebook. So there are two or three generations now on a NUC shell. I think they're called like this. They have an empty notebook with only the keyboard, the battery and basic order for RAM and storage display. And you slot in your CPU and such as a unit itself, but you can also replace it later or change it later. And they try to keep one or two generations from CPU design with the same chip so you can reuse and upgrade. But it's not as much as a framework, but it's an option that not many people know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's really the future, you know. When you can use, you don't have to buy a new phone, you just put more memory, you just put more, you know, better battery, like maybe even a bigger screen, like, you know. Yeah, you change your CPU and such. Sometimes you can also change the RAM architecture with that, yeah, but the difference between the shells itself is often better screen and so on. Can you send me the name of the company? Intel. Intel does that. Yeah, Intel with their NUC stuff. Yeah, okay, yeah. I mean, you know, the people working in the industry, they have all those problems in mind, so they are slowly, but it's difficult because you need to change completely the way you do business. You know, it's not the same job to produce and to sell and to, you know, maintain devices. It's different a little bit. Sorry. A question for your, I suppose, business model or financing. So if you grow, the more you grow, the more capital you need to acquire more phones that you didn't rent out, and you obviously have a kind of cash flow gap in the years that people rent your phones. So how do you, what's the kind of long-term plan here? Because if you're wildly successful, then you have wildly a lot of debt to buy all these phones. Yeah, so the problem of what we're doing in terms of financing is that it's capital intensive because you need to buy the devices first to be able to. So we grown organically as a cooperative. So as a cooperative, you first sell shares, you know, and then you have a stamp capital, and you go to the banks, saying, you know, like a few hundreds, thousands of people buy the shares, you know, they're ready to follow me. And then we got loans like that. So until now, you know, it has worked quite well. What we will do with producers that want to do that with us is that we buy the devices at the cheapest price, but then each month they got fees when the devices are rented. And so from our size, it's less capital intensive, and from their size, they have also a benefit to make the devices last longer. Because as long as the devices are in rent, they touch like, you know, fees, very fees. So you can make the whole system actually, you know, smarter, like so that really everyone has this interest to make the devices last. So that's something we are planning to do. I've got pretty much the same question, but for your marketing strategies, how big is your impact with your company, especially if you look at the big players, and what are your strategies to increase the market share? So at the moment we have, I'll just slide about it, more than 3,000 devices in circulation. Yeah, so the marketing, you know, basically that's that, you know, and for the company to explain that, you know, support is included, et cetera, and that actually we touch all the small and medium companies who don't want to pay a technician, who don't want to hire someone to manage the devices. And of course we explain, it's a lot of explanation, right, because you have to make understand people why it's interesting, because when people think about leasing, most of the time they say, oh no, it's just going to cost too much, you know, it's just a way to make me pay, you know, like for a long time. So you have to explain a lot, explain why, you know, the model makes sense and why it's actually, you know, the only business model who can be at the same time sustainable and rentable. So yeah, we have to explain a lot, you know, but it changed slowly, you know, because everybody gets aware of that. So no, we have lots of requests from journalists, like we will be on the German TV, et cetera, you know, but we have to explain, explain, explain, explain, and yeah, you know, yeah, marketing is explanation and that. Also research is, you know, we have lots of students, it's interesting to do research on that and it's a big part of marketing, you know, to show with figures that it's more sustainable, it's really a big part of soft, soft marketing research. Okay, then maybe for last question, because it's... Yeah. I was continuing to think which companies would be interesting to be involved in this idea. Like I'm thinking of, say, for instance, Philips, because Philips is a company making a tons of different products and not all of those products need the same computer, or the same capacity or processor power or such, but they use electronics in almost all their smart devices, right? So do you work with any company that sort of re-use components for different purposes so you don't put it back in the phone? You use the processor for, I don't know, a dishwasher or something else? Not yet, but that's clearly the future. It's clearly what we would like to achieve with our partners, you know, that for example, even if, for example, that's a Fairphone 3, I can't put any of those components in the Fairphone 4, you know? And there is a research gap here, clearly we should be able to fix the Fairphone 4 with some components of the Fairphone 3, you know, it should be possible. I know that chip phones, they are more innovative in this way. They want to do something in this direction. So, you know, I encourage them. There seems to be a gap between the private consumer market and like, you can call the, I mean, I'm thinking, for instance, most digital things like escalators or whatever, they use microcontrollers and those are often quite standardized. I don't know, you can, with an Arduino, for instance, control so many different things. But maybe if you, I don't know the answer, but you can check, maybe Xerox does that for the printer, because they have interest to be able to put a CPU for any printer on any other one, you know, to fix them. So they may be at the stage where, you know, them, because it's in their interest, once again, you know, they make money because they can do that. So they may be quite advanced on the topic. Xerox is in the research, in the study case, you know, the number one for this business model, like modularity and product as a service, Xerox was the option here. So it's documented. So yeah, have a look if you find the answer, I'm interesting. Thank you. I have some flyers if you want to, you know, have more, right there, it's in my bag then. Exactly. Is there any other question, do we stop here? You can also come to speak to me afterwards if you want. Okay, there's no other question. I would have a quick question. Are you planning to also lease the devices at your suppliers so that they can lease the materials or the components so that this leasing is going up the supply chain? Because the other way around, as I said, the producers they sell us devices at the cheapest price and we give them fees, you know, when their devices are leased, as long as the devices are leased. So you're not planning to only lease the devices already from the producer? Like for example, swap feeds is now leasing the tires. They are not buying the tires for their bicycles. But they are doing the product service in the supply chain. What we do goes in this direction. It's just you put the if we buy plus fees or if you lease completely for the moment we are buying cheaper with a leasing component with fees. But yeah, that's the complete extreme I mean extreme if you do it until the end if you publish the model until the end that's what you do completely. Which is I think a good way to do because so everybody has an interest to if you keep some actors out of having this interest to make the devices last long it can't work. That's a good direction to go. I guess. Thank you very much. Big applause. Thank you.