 In security, Bandits return to Kaduna Abuja Highway, kidnap over 30, as 10 feet killed in Kasina village. And corruption, probing Umar Farouk, edu authors and answers Nigeria's global image just is Aheko. I am Borla Oba Anfis, is plus politics. Bandits on Sunday attacked travelers on the Abuja Kaduna Highway and abducted over 30 people, witnesses and community leaders. Said, the abduction took place at Dogon Fili near Katari along the Kaduna Abuja Highway in Kashia local government area of Kaduna state. This is the first time in months and ten months when the security along the Abuja Kaduna Road atri was breached. A former lawmaker, Sinetoshie Woosani confirmed the attack on his ex-page. It disclosed that two of his friends narrowly escaped the kidnap, narrowly escaped being kidnapped by the bandits. Sinetoshie said, quote, just when we felt safer, last night Sunday kidnappers returned to the Kaduna Abuja Road. They blocked the road and abducted scores of persons at 9pm near Katari village. Two of my honorable friends from both the ruling and opposition parties had to run through the bush like Usain Bolt. But despite this incident, there is a stronger security presence along the route than it used to be in the past, unquote. Similarly, suspected bandits have left 10 persons killed and several others wounded at Kukau Babangida village in Jibya local government area of Kashina state on Thursday. Among those killed were the Kukau Babangida village at Zone in Kashina along with his four biological children. Residents told reporters that the bandits invaded the village in the early hours of Thursday at 1.30am when most of the residents were deeply asleep. The Kashina state police command was yet to react to the attack at the time of filing this report. To look at this is a security expert, Augustin Hega and a public affairs analyst, Muamed Abdulahi. Gentlemen, welcome to PLOS Politics. Hello. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. How would you start giving this saddening reportage from the Abuja Cardinal Act 6 and the Kashina state? What would be your initial response to this report? Yes, it's quite very unfortunate because in the past, two years, if I'm correct, the issue of bandits or kidnappers on Abuja Cardinal Highway looked initially stopped because I'm a regular traveler on that highway. In fact, at least two months or so I'm on that highway traveling between Abuja and Cardinal. So I'm telling from experience that at least in almost the past 24 months, we've not had this kind of occurrence of kidnappings on that way. And it was basically because there was a holdout of patrol on that highway. You know, there are many security posts. I think I mean, for what I've seen so far, there are many security posts along that highway from the stretch of Abuja. All until Cardinal. I could only wear this kidnap, I mean this recent kidnap to place. That Qatari access is actually very very dangerous, you know. They are very very dangerous. Seriously, that has been, that Qatari access as well was where the train was attacked almost four months ago. So that access has been very dangerous. I mean, in terms of banditry and then kidnapping. So like I said, I've seen a holdout of security apparatus. I mean, even soldiers come here and there, patrols here and there, you know. So it's quite disturbing that this recent attack took place, I mean, three or four days ago. And at alarming rate. Mohammed. Thirty people are to go. If the paraphernalia of security on that road is as pronounced, as you just stated, and this is a first-hand account, as somebody who often used the road. One would then presuppose that it's about time that the security architecture would look beyond just enhancing the presence of security personnel on that road. Because if the intelligence were to be right, the people who attacked to orchestrate that unfortunate incident would have been, would have been pinned down before getting to the road. You know, because as much as, you know, you have also validated the opinion shared by Senator Shaywusoni that now we stand in the breach, the presence of security on that road seems to be better than it used to be. But this has also shown us that if we're just waiting, believing that because we have high presence of security personnel, these guys may look for, you know, a lacuna of the sword and strategically just eat that point and eat our own of the sword. What do you think? Yeah, I think the challenge is that it's very obvious that perhaps these criminals like I used to, like I choose to call them seems to be a bit smarter than our security apparatus. Yeah, it's, there's no two way about it, you know. Because this is a calling issue, you know, the Englishman says once beating twice shy. But come on, we've been beating more than like a hundred times or even a thousand times, kidnapping seems to be like the order of the day. So we want to believe that these few criminals are more smarter than our security apparatus is our security agencies. Perhaps it is so, even if we don't want to admit because I think like you rightly mentioned, what we need to do and what we need to do first is go beyond just human security. What do I mean by human security? I mean, like having, I mean, so the US camp or police comes at strategic location across the whole. That would definitely not solve the problem seriously. Because these guys know they are human beings. They know that perhaps there will be a time that they will be pressed. There will be a time that they will fall asleep. There will be a time that perhaps there will be other issues across the country that they need to be the quick to go and attend. So bam, what if they are not there, they strike. That's what is. Okay. But what we need to really look at. Okay mama, mama, I'll get back to you. Let me also bring your colleague, Augustine Aga in. Augustine, what would be your take of these unfortunate incidents, both Kadunaw, Abudia, Road Aksiks and Incasina State? Your first take. Hello Augustine. Is Augustine there? Okay. Mohammed. Yes. Oh, okay. There's a whole lot of network issues. I think, you know, just let's take it as we get it. Is that Augustine? I can hear you. Yes, I can hear you. Oh, fantastic Augustine. Okay, Augustine, how do you want to start? Your initial response to all the remarks, you know, first of all made, you know, on the show. Thank you. That line is cracky, cracky, cracky. Hello. Can you hear me sir? Yes, I can now. Alright. What I'm saying, my own security in the most, even in the most secure nations, they still have times where they have lapses. I am not collaborating with the Nigerian police or maybe they have some deficiency that led to this. But what I want to analyze objectively is that from the time the guys operated, the day of the week, it was a Sunday from the, what I've seen so far, it was a Sunday. It was around 9pm. And they said the operation lasted for 45 minutes. And that is that for the five minutes like up to 10 o'clock in the evening. I think they have actually profiled the system because these people look for opportunity to strike. They profiled the system and we all know that on Sundays, people don't travel much. Or you see sometimes you travel a long distance. You don't even find law enforcement along the routes. If you are someone who travels a lot every Sunday or every weekend, it's a quiet time. And this time was even a festive time. So I want to see that they took opportunity of the day of the week and the timing too. They have done their survey, they have done their intelligence, they have done their profiling before this incident happens. That is my own understanding of what is happening. You are a security expert. And to be honest with you, nobody can fault the logic of your submission. It's perfect, you know. But it is, however, also speaking to the fact that even a spot like you can analyze the fact that those guys struck when after the most profiled, you know, the operational methodology of the security apparatus in that axis, somebody at the management level of those who are there, or those who posted them, they ought to be playing scenarios too. You know, scenarios that, you know, there may be days like that of peak that these guys may be opportunistically prepared to take advantage of their relaxed security architecture. Don't you people do that in your trade? I'm just thinking aloud now. And I'm sorry if it seems like I'm putting you... No sir, you're absolutely correct. I was getting down to that. You know, you have to look at all areas before you know where to throw your blame at. You are actually 100% correct on this. This is something that they need to do from their strategic and operational level to know the level of... In fact, we can see that all the military coups that have happened in Nigeria happened on weekends. And most of the high level incidences against security happened during the weekends. So this is enough to inform the authorities that they should prepare better, especially in that axis of the route when we've had a lot of problems. So I would say that I am not letting out those in authority regarding the security of that route. They ought to have done something on their own. The government is aware and they have placed their law enforcement to do something to save lives and property along the route. So we are not shifting the blame away from our own Nigerian police. Or whosoever the authority is sending that area. Fantastic. I'm not shifting my blame because we cannot. The government have profiles. People have been delegated to do their job. People have been assigned in their job. So where were they? We are talking about 45 hours operations. 45 minutes. I know it was a slip. I know it was a slip of tongue. Yes, yes, it's a slip. So 45 minutes operation is too much for that we don't have a response force. For 45 minutes they are operating. Five minutes is enough for bad guys to do what they want to do. But we are talking about almost an hour. Let me just quickly add something to the fantastic points we are making. I think it is imperative that this juncture to let our viewers know that it may not only be the police. We may have way blocks that are manned by the army or some other services too. Because it may be a bit unfair. To just note it all on the place. The security architecture especially in that specific particular axis transcends the place alone. I want to believe that. Yes, I think I... Okay, let me go to Mohamed. Mohamed is a regular user of that road. Mohamed. Yes, I can hear you. Your factual this thing will be helpful to myself and Augustine here as somebody who regularly uses the road. Is it only the place or the other security agencies also deploy personnel in that axis? Definitely it is not only the police. The most visible security apparatus that you will find on the road. Since the train attack has even been in the army. You have a Nigerian army base actually not too far from the scene of the train attack. Which is closer. The scene of the train attack is much closer to the road than the train track. So you have even the Nigerian army patrol man. Sometimes you see 2, 3, 4 on both lanes of the road. Mohamed. Perhaps. Mohamed. Yes. Somebody who according to you, somebody who often travels between Abuja and Kaduna and given the seeming noisy coincidence that you have just, you have just pointed for me now. Which is the fact that the Sunday incident happened somewhat approximate to the point where that infamous train attack took place just by the same vicinity. And I'm thinking, I'm thinking, is there a particular topographical or any document that areas that vulnerable. You should know somebody who… Nothing really spectacular. From my continuous usage of that road. Nothing really underwhelming or overwhelming in that area. In fact, what we just have is that perhaps it's a bit rocky and then it's a bit like a valley. But like I mentioned earlier, there is even an army base that has been instituted there since the train attack. I can really confirm this, you understand. But like I said, we keep hopping on humans, human security. At this age and time, we need to go past that. We need to go past that. Seriously, why human security is fantastic? You can't do it. You can't do it without it. But we need to employ a role of technology. And we need to be very discreet about that. It is not fine for me, even though I'm not a security expert that whenever the army buys, for instance, a particular machine or a particular aircraft or a particular security machine, it goes all over the news. I don't think it's a wise idea, you understand. Because we need to be very discreet about what we do in terms of our security agencies. And at this age and time, we need more of technology. I come back to you. I come back to you. I'm having two intellectually engaging guests this evening. And I'm the apia for it. Augustine, hello Augustine. I'm with you. Fantastic. Augustine, you are the security expert here. And like Mohammed just opined. Umint, that is human intelligence is good. But technology now is so democratized, democratized open source, that is awesome. Open source intelligence that people like you should be in the know. Should also be given advice now to security agencies that this see don't look and wait for the bad guys to come and attack portraiture. It's becoming untoward. Why are we not using intelligence? What would be your response to my notices opinion? Yeah, it's good because from the description of the area, what Mohammed just said, the topography is actually favorable for criminal activities like that. It says rocky and it's a valley there. So it makes that place vulnerable. And it also shows that it's a getaway point for them. Where you have valley, you have rocky, it's a place they can't conceal themselves easily. So haven't known this. If Mohammed is not a security expert, it's able to even access the reach there and tell us what is the topography of that area. I think we learn. Profiling should be done by the national police and the DSS. Mohammed is saying this are the capabilities that you build. And intelligence is good, but intelligence have to be actionable. And that's one point the most note. Another point is that intelligence like policing. It's very important. In fact, it's key to modern day policing. Intelligence like policing is very, very important. It's strategic. And since they've known that this area is vulnerable, all the whole road is vulnerable, they need to build the capabilities of intelligence like policing along that area. And like you said, the open source, they can incorporate this open source thing that they will get information randomly. Around those people living there. So it comes to the point where we need to ask how do they spend our budget in terms of securing lives in that kind of an area. The second point I will make is that I am concerned with the response time. I am very concerned and disappointed with the response time. Okay, if let's agree that in all of the things they have done, something is still happened, then the response time, the response falls should be able to help us out of that situation. Response can be by using vehicles. It can also be so that you will use very little manpower to do very much. This is effectiveness. Augustine, to agree with you, 45 minutes and apart from that, they practically took away 30 human beings reportedly. 30? They must have had the whole day to themselves. At least in terms of security vulnerability from what you have said as an expert that 5 minutes is even too long. I don't know what they will tell their commands that we know some of the bank robberies, they have a duration of 5-10 minutes and they will cut away with a lot of resources. But we are talking of human beings stopping the vehicle, taking them out, channeling them through where they need to pass, to where they want to keep them. And it happened 1, 2, 3 to 30 human beings and to a particular place. I mean it's something we really need to, it's not something that we can defend anybody. And just using my journalistic, the unfortunate thing about some of the traits that some of us get involved in is that just using my journalistic mind and as you know, pain is kept it now. Is this speaking to maybe conspiracies or some, I don't know. Okay, my back room told me it's about time we ended this segment. Gentlemen, I really want to say thank you. Mohamed, it's been lovely engaging with you. Thanks for the information. And Augustine, we surely will be having you guys back. We couldn't even go as far as Kasina, Abudia Kajuno Road eventually took most of our time. Thank you. We got a short break now. My pleasure. Thank you. We got a short break now. And one way back, the show goes on.