 The design review committee meeting for Monday, May the 18th. I will let members and staff and produce themselves go right ahead. Aaron Gilbertson. So Mitchell. Yeah. Martha Smirsky. And Smith. And Steve Everett and. Meredith. Yep. Meredith Crandall staff here in the city council chambers. Sorry, you can't see my face at the moment. And Mike Miller and I'm just going to be trying to help out with some group chats. If there's any issues that come up. You can group chat me. Or I will try to reach out to you to try to get you if there's, there's any specific issues that you're having that you need. Addressed. So to send them my way. Mike or Mary. Tammy for the recording secretary. Thanks, Tammy. You're welcome. And either Meredith or Mike, do you want to review the remote meeting procedures and process? Yes, I'll be doing that. So for anyone who hasn't attended a remote design review committee meeting yet due to the state of emergency. Declare by governor Scott as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic. The design review committee is authorized to meet electronically. And there's no physical location for this meeting. So we're going to do that in accordance with temporary amendments to the open meeting law. We're providing public access to the meeting by hosting a video conference meeting, including both video and telephone access options through zoom meeting. Access platform. All members of the design review committee have the ability to communicate at the same time during this meeting through this meeting. So we're going to do that in order to participate in real time. Everybody who's here can. See, I'm just going to pull up. My procedures in case there's somebody who's watching on Orca. So that they can see the link here. Or the phone number to call in along with the meeting ID and password. Orca, they can still get to the meeting at this point. We previously gave notice to the public. On how to access this meeting on our city website. Again, that's shown here. Or you can get a direct link into the meeting. If you have problems with access. You can email the meeting moderator, Mike Miller. You can also contact Mike Miller at M Miller at Montpelier. If you're having difficulties while you're accessing the video conference meeting. Features in zoom. As Mike said, just a couple of minutes ago, you can use the chat function to contact Mike and figure out how to fix those issues. So if you are logged into the meeting. And when you first log in, if we don't know who you are, you're going to have an opportunity to tell the moderator, which applications you wish to comment on. Everybody's that's on right now are applicants. So I know, you know what you want to talk about. When the chair announces the time for public comment on an application arrives, the moderator will unmute members of the public based on the order that you submit your intent to speak on that application. If you're interested in speaking, and you did not say that you would like to speak previously, you can raise your hand so that we can see you if you're accessing via video, or you can chat with Mike to let him know that you want to talk on a matter. We'll also have a period where we unmute everybody at the end of an application to make sure that there's not somebody out on the phone that we just haven't been able to reach yet. Once the chair has recognized you to participate, if you're just a member of the public and not an applicant, the moderator will unmute you and will confirm that you can be heard. Then you can provide your questions or comments. Once you're done, your microphone will be muted again. And then the chair will move on to the next person to speak. If there is someone who wants to speak. In the event the public, for some reason, is unable to respond. The chair might grant additional time for speakers who have followed up questions or comments. Once you're done, your microphone will be muted again. And then the chair will move on to the next person to speak. If there is someone who wants to speak. In the event the public, for some reason, is unable to access this meeting or we lose access, then the meeting is going to be continued to a time and place certain. Note that all votes taken during this meeting that are not unanimous will be done by a roll call vote. I'll now hand the meeting back over to the chair. Okay. Thank you, Meredith. The next item is approval of the agenda. Do I hear a motion to approve the agenda? I'll move to approve the agenda. Second, Eric. And you, Eric, you seconded. Did I hear a second? Yeah, that was Eric. Okay. All in favor. Go ahead and speak to your approval. I went approving. We probably should speak our name so that everybody knows who, who said I. Okay. This is Martha. I say I. Okay. I think it was. Yeah. At this point, are there any days. Nope. So we can go ahead and move to the first application. For 72 Berry street. Steve Ribollini review. Moving to windows. Steve, are you there? Yes, I am. Go ahead and describe your proposal. Okay. Those two windows you're seeing on the screen now. They're actually both stained glass windows. They're a number of years ago, some work was done in that house. To make it. Two apartments before my time of owning it. And. Those two windows were lowered about three feet. You can see above the stained glass windows. Where they were on it. Back to previous picture. The inside one you can see. Where they were right up above. That's just been filled in with. Fiberglass insulation. And it lowered the ceiling in there to put in a little half bath. There. And we're removing that half baths. And then want to put the windows back to the height. They were because it's the hallway. How high up would they be moved? About three feet, Steve, about three feet. So they would be above. The top casing. Yes. Yeah. They would. You know, probably be. About. Where the. Different color shingles are. Okay. And where they were, Steve, right? Where they were. And that picture we're seeing the porch roof. The arrows right there. It must be the angle because that porch doesn't stick in front of the windows like that. That porch roof is really to the. Beside the left-hand window. Okay. So they were moving the stained glass windows back up would not interfere with that line of that portrait. Right. Right. Can you see the original framing where the location was in the beginning? Yeah. If you go back to that other. Shot. Which is, I apologize. It's not a good run, but you can see where the trim was. The walls painted green and it was white. Or I presume it was either natural or this. White trim. There now you can see where that was because there's a white. Area. Okay. I think what they did, maybe it was an energy conservation or something. Or maybe they wanted to be able to see out the bathroom windows. Yeah. I think that work was probably done in. Late 50s or the early 60s from what we've been able to figure out. Now, if you remove the stained glass windows, will you remove both of those windows frames and all and then. Yes. But clapboards back to the original. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you're putting your stained glass back, right? Back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm raising it up three feet, basically. The same frame, same windows. Sounds good to me. Okay. Does anybody have any questions, comments, or suggestions at this point? Window on the left. This is Liz. It looks like it just has clear glass. It does. We had taken the stained glass out Liz. Just to let a little more light in there while we were working there. And I said, well, we better take a picture before we take them both out or I won't have any to show. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. It's there. It looks the same and it's in a closet for safekeeping. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions, comments or suggestions? Not from Eric. Okay. Okay. Then I can go down through the recommendation form. Evaluation criteria. Number one, preservation or reconstruction of the appropriate historic style. This seems like a route of preservation. Certainly. Harmony of exterior design, acceptable. Compatibility of proposed exterior materials. So you're proposed landscaping none in this application. Prevention of the use of incompatible designs, building, color schemes or exterior materials acceptable. Location and appearance of all utilities, no change or nothing in this application for utilities. Recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant vistas, including gateways, views of the city and state house, acceptable. All in favor of the application is proposed. Speak your name. Eric says aye. Martha says aye. Liz? Aye. Hannah says aye. Is Seth there or no? Yes. Seth says aye. Oh, okay. And Steve says aye. So it's unanimous. Steve, I just have one more quick question. Um, which side of the building are these windows on? I drove by the building today and I couldn't figure it out. Well, they're actually on the driveway side. So you'd have to pull into the driveway and just beyond that porch, you'll see them. Okay. All right. Thank you. They're not on either street side really. Uh huh. Okay. Okay. Well, good. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you, Steve. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You're on going. Work on the building. Okay. Thank you. One second. I just wanted to let you know, um, I will be emailing you the recommendation forms. Once Steve Everett signs them and sends them to me. So I'll tell those to you and you can either sign them and scan them back or just send me an email saying that you received the recommendation form and you, you know, that you're in agreement with it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much, everyone. Thank you. Bye. Bye. We can move forward to the next application. Which is for five West street. Applicant honor Jennifer and Sean Sheehan. Hi. Hi. Hello. Go ahead and describe your application for the addition of the dormer to the, your previously approved project. So we were in may remember us from the, from the fall. Um, we, we came in around the time that we, uh, I guess we closed on the house October. October 1st. And, um, I needed a roof and returning the garage and ten accessory dwelling unit. Um, so we were hoping to get that done before winter, but winter came early. So we didn't get the, the roof for early parts. And then thinking about it over the winter, um, we thought, you know, there's all that space up in the attic that isn't used and we don't have, um, I think, you know, the ability or funds or anything. Now, but, um, obviously changing anything to the roof. Before you put time to do it. So, and, um, and thinking about it, we thought about doing chat, doing two, two shed, shed dormers, uh, eight foot wide shed dormers on the, on the back. Um, and trying to match the, um, the style generally of the, uh, obviously the dorm. Front is a lot, a lot bigger. Um, but matching the style of, of, um, of windows and, um, and, and yeah, having the, the dormer there on the, um, on the back. So they would be, um, you know, they eight, eight foot, eight foot wide. Um, and my, my drawing here, I didn't have the, didn't have the over, overhang, but would have the fly, um, rafters. And that was one of the questions that flag was the, the overhangs on the, the rest of the house, um, both on the Gable, Gable ends and the overhangs. And also on the, the front dormer is, um, is 20 inches, 20 inches wide. And, um, and that it seemed like going 20 inches wide on a eight foot dormer would be, um, would be over, overkill since you'd have eight foot of dormer and 40 inches of, of, of overhangs on the left and right. So we were thinking, uh, um, ball bench, uh, overhang on the, on the left and right of the, of the dormer. Um, the windows, I, I include effects there would, would be, um, similar to the, you know, the same number of, of lights there that the four by two on, on each, on each sash. Uh, having the mold, mold windows there, the, the windows on the, um, the back of the house and the sides are, are have a rough opening. It's about three foot by three foot wide by five foot tall. Um, so we were going with the mold, mold window there. And that would be, uh, each one be three foot wide by five foot tall to, um, to match. I don't know if there's a picture that shows that there, there's one in the front already. There isn't one in the back. Uh, let me see if I can. Well, it's like the, the drawing Sean did, but in the front. Yeah, right, right on the small picture we have. Yeah. So it's just one big, just one big shed dormer in the, in the front. And it's on the second story, making the second story big. So this would be, be up a higher and on the, on the back and it would be too, too small shed dormers. But the style would be roughly similar there. And then we, and we would try to, um, match the, um, you know, the, this, this office, uh, as, as well with, um, obviously the same, same paint color that we'd, we'd put in for in the, um, in our fall, fall permit, but, but also, um, um, so if it is a five four inch strips and we would, so we would, would match the same, um, same strips and the same, same style of the one by 10 on the, on the fashion. Are these the Marvin plan or ultimates or are they the integrity wood frame? Um, they would be the, the, uh, the integrity that are the, I guess the elevate is the, um, right? It's the, it's the ultrex on the, on the exterior and the wood on the, on the interior. Yes. And again, it's a simulated divided light with a spacer bar. Correct. Yeah. Okay. Um, does the drawing show exactly how those windows and new dormers will, um, relate to the windows below? You know what I mean? As far as spacing goes. Yeah. They, they, um, and as with, with the current first and second floors, don't line up exactly. Um, and these, these wouldn't, um, either. They would be the two mold together. The one on the right would be, um, roughly over the second lower window there. And then the, the inside mold window would, would be to the inside of that. The, the one that Meredith has the arrow on, um, so the second floor, you can see clearly the three windows on the second floor. And then underneath the porch, there's one that doesn't, you know, right there, Meredith, you got it the one on the left there. It goes out a little bit further to the left than the one above it. Then the kitchen window is right below that second one. And then the third one doesn't line up at all. Cause there's a door there into the kitchen off the porch. So that's what Sean was saying, but I don't think you can see the look the first floor windows very well. Yeah. So looking at, and lining, and lining them up, we were trying to have roughly the same, um, space as on the front of the house from the edge of the house over to where the start of the dormer is. It'll, you know, roughly match that, which is two, two bays. Um, you have the, the end, the end rafter, uh, and then two bays, not nine, including the bay between the fly rafter and the, and the end, the end rafter. And then that would be, um, there, there are two foot on, on center and the existing attic. So we would be tying those, um, taking up four, well, the three bays, like four stretches of, of the rafters, um, for, for the dormers and looking at how they would, would line up on the, um, on the windows. Yeah. Like, like I said, they would be, we should have set up in the backyard for this meeting. Cause we could have just turned the computer. We could do that. So in any case on the dormer, the outer window of the double will line up with the window below that. Yeah. And then, and then the other window will be, um, to the inside of that. We have two sets of mold windows, right? Uh, correct. Right. One, one set in each, in each of the dormers. Yeah. The dormers don't line up with the windows below that. Um, no, no, not, no, not, not exactly. But, uh, I'll see if it was just for this thing that I don't know how much the, the outside, the outside window of the pair, the mold, mold windows, the one on the outside edge will, will roughly right be right over where Meredith has the mouse pointer there over, over the second floor window. And then the right now where she's putting the next, the pointer now is where the, um, in that case the left, uh, the left window of the mold unit will be. I would suggest that if, if they're not going to line up exactly, I would make sure they're, they're out of alignment enough. So it doesn't look like you tried to line them up. Right. So having something four inches off. I don't know if you're, if your placement of your dormers is critical. The first floor and second floor are lined up and plus also the porch doesn't go the whole length. It's kind of short or cut short too. Yeah. I just, I'm not looking like you try to line them up and didn't do it. Yeah. That's a good idea. The window, the windows are irregular enough on this building that. And also I think, uh, it's consistent with the style, but not necessarily have everybody, everything light up. So right. What, what you can do is you're building this, you can, obviously you've been. You can do a, a mockup and move, move your sample back and forth so that you can determine a balance that looks like it. It's in harmony with the rest of the building on the backside. Any other comments, questions or suggestions? What are the sizes of the windows on the second floor? Um, they're, they're, uh, they're roughly, well the rough, about 3.5 by 5 foot. So a little bit, a little bit smaller than that. Yeah. So the intention of the dorm or windows is to match the, the relative sizing that you have on the second floor. Yeah. So. I mean, you're, you're, uh, the paper doll, uh, on the, on the roof that represents the dormer really isn't. So much to scale. Right. Right. Yeah. I think, um, it's a lot more squat than the, than the ones below. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had a hard time with that. I think from the, from the perspective of the camera, I tried measuring it out with the. I mean, you know, I, I had there. And when I did it to. Yeah. It made it look like, um, it was going higher than the, in the peak of the, of the back of the house, whereas in actuality, you'll be tying in, um, you know, a few feet below the, below the peak. Um, and so that was the, that was the, uh, That's right off there. Is the center window. On the second floor centered on the building. That's the bathroom. Um, right. Yeah. So that one, that one isn't three foot by five foot. It's just the one on the left and the right, or a three foot by five. So is that center window actually centered on the building itself? I believe so. I haven't measured it exactly. I certainly could. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To the eye, it looks, um, Well, actually the, the left side, it looks like more space to the left of that window than there is the right, but maybe it's just the angle. Sean took the picture. Yeah. To my eye, it looks like it's centered and then each side windows equidistant. So it appears to have sentry. Okay. To me, I mean, at least. Yeah. And to that end, I think it would be. Better if, if there's nothing preventing you from. Reinforcing that symmetry by bringing it into alignment. I think that would really be best. Don't much care for the misalignment. It seems, it seems like, it seems strikes me as a little bit odd. I understand. First floor not being aligned to the second, but they're fairly close in proximity with proposed dormer and second floor. It would seem like you'd want to make an effort to align. Well, which way would you align? Cause I think there's an equal distance from the edge of the roof. To the start of each window would, are you saying you'd bring the windows in. So I guess it's the matter of. If that's the case, then, then the second floor isn't symmetrical. Right. This looks like it's lined up now that the dormers are lined up over the. The outside windows, the two windows. The one on the right looks like it's off center. And then the one on the left looks like it's always centered. That's hard with a perspective to deal with that. Yeah. I guess it's. Yeah. What is the intent? Well, um, I mean, I guess, I guess on that was. Looking from being centered was really starting from the point of, of the base that would, that would match and, um, yeah, for the picture wasn't, wasn't lining up from actually measuring it. It looked like, I think as Steve was saying earlier, relative to the picture here that these would be squeezed a little bit more towards the, um, the squeeze. So that the, the outside. Unit of the, the mold, the mold unit, um, would be over the, the second floor and the, um, and then right the inside one would be, would be more right over that, over that space. Um, you know, having, having said that, if we think it would be better to try to line it up with that middle line over the middle of the second floor window. Um, I'm saying we could, I guess. Uh, Lock that up or move or particularly if I guess there was some. Lee way. Um, Lee way, um, between making it a, either an eight foot bay or a 10 foot bay, if we, I think to get it, to get it perfectly centered, we may need to go one more bay over to the, um, to the edge, which would leave just, just the, the two foot, um, you know, the two foot buffer between the start of the, the dormer and the, the edge of the house plus the, plus the 20 inch overhang. Um, I guess it'd be a matter of, right. Of, uh, of measuring that again or working with her. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. One of the three feet. So if you had, you'd mean like a nine foot window width to center it, right? Well, no. Um, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Together there are six foot, will be a six foot wide rough, rough opening, but as far as where those, um, Right. Where those days go within that eight foot. Well, what if you align the jam? Like if you were to justify the jam of the, let's talk about the left side. You take that left. Jam for dormer. Right. So if you were to, if you were to, if you were to, if you were to, if you were to move your window or window, then you're just, you're bringing it in more towards the center. Right. And then if you mirrored that to the other side. And they would align the three foot would align. Up. And then it would just jog over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we could, we could do that. I would pull you away from the edge, at least at the root. Right. Yeah. Reinforces that symmetry to some extent. And, and better to have that as you're saying that better to have the windows lined up like that and not have it. Not have the windows be centered in the. In the door. So in other words. I might have. Three foot on one side and one foot. On the, on the other. So, so if we have, oh, I'm sorry, not, not, not three in one. I mean, so six six foot rough opening. So I mean, I'm not having an even one foot on either side of the. Of the window. Well, Oh no, I mean, I guess it'll be even a little bit. That's that. And that with the, with the window frame. But that the. The window because the, because the dormer will be. Tied on the. The rafters that are there existing that are, that are cut out to make sure that it. It lines up over the, the window we might have. Are you unable to put in new rafters. Well, it was, I was going to double up the existing. But I guess you can obviously have the new, the new rafters of above on there, but rather than, um, cutting, I guess to minimize the number cut out. Was going to double up the existing rafters on the left and right of the, of the dormer there. Yeah, I guess you just don't, you just don't want to cut out the existing rafters. Right. I thought I saw somewhere that the rafters were 20 inches on center. Um, they're, they're two feet on center. Yeah. The 20 inches is the, um, is the overhang on the, um, the soft bits and on the fly rafters, but the, the, uh, the actual existing rafters are, are 24 inches on something. And now I, what are they, what, two by 12. Two by six is the kind of blew me away, but I guess they had good wood back in the day. That's, that's a little light. Yeah. They're, they're, they're original too. But so they're, they're, they're the rough cut two by sixes. They're true, true two by sixes, but they're still, still just two by sixes in there. And they're really long too. I mean, that, that full, if that's a 30 foot long, they seem to just be one piece from what I can. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To me that currently unfinished. Um, currently unfinished. Yes. Okay. Well, well, I should say partially finished. They started to, previous owner, it started to, um, insulate. So it has, uh, it has the baffles. Um, as the baffles going from the floor level. Um, with, uh, insulation over, um, rigid foam insulation over, uh, the ventilation baffles, but, and then above that. So from nine, 10 feet high up to the, up to the peak, you can, you can see the, the rafters. So from the color ties. Right. From the color ties up. Yeah. Um, do you consider a single dormer like you've got in the front, single dormer? Um, I think our main reason for, um, I'm doing that. Yeah. It's twofold. One, it seemed like it would be a bigger engineering. Feet. And number two with the ventilation pipe. I mean, I know we could just extend the ventilation pipe and go up through the distinct dormer there, but it's actually a couple. A couple of ventilation pipes that, um, come up and then tie it together so that it'd be probably. Right. You can see the one. Yeah. So that top one, actually the very top pipe, right? We're, and it says the pointer now that's going to be coming out. That's, that's nothing that the former, the former owner had a, um, August stove. Yeah. And the piping went so they took, they got rid of that stove and the piping. So that doesn't tie anything. So we'll be roofing over that. But right. The one where you are now that, that's the plumbing ventilation pipe there. And, um, And a couple of pipes. Uh, so from where it is now, and then if you move the pointer to the left, you know, kind of eight feet or so, yeah, right, right about there. Um, there's another pipe that comes up and they join each other. Um, and so that space, um, Right. I mean, like I said, we could, you know, we could have extended the, um, the pipe up and doing that, but it seemed to be making it a bigger project. A lot of, um, for the front dormers supported by, um, I guess it was just the different, I guess it's a different situation in the front because it's over the porch. I just wanted to ask the question. Yeah. Maybe you saw your, you're kind of restricted to 20 inch leaps as you move it. If you move the relocated farmers, right. Yeah. Of course, I don't think it would hurt at all to add. A rafter at some point in between the 24 inches. To support the walls of the dormer. Right. Uh, you could put that anywhere you wanted to in there. I would cut the 24 inches at least in that location. Yeah. So you could just, you could move it. Um, 12 inches and have put an extra rafter in. Okay. To take care of it. Right. That would probably be a good idea. I think. Yeah. That would be my vote that it seems a shame to place the dormers. Misaligned the dormers based on rafter layout, but if you're already in there digging around to add you rafters, and you're going to have to have your own, your own bedding and the different types of things that you've done in that location. And support your sidewalls of your dormers possibly better. It seems like. Worthy endeavor. I agree. Thank you. So Seth, Seth and Ben, would you want to give them the option of centering the center million over the window below it? Yes. Or stirring centering the left window. Of the dormer over the window below it. I think it makes more sense to say the outside window over the window below it. I think it makes more sense to bring the outside windows into alignment because otherwise you're pushing the door around too close to the edge of the roof. Yes, no, I agree. I think that would give the best symmetry if that works for you. Right, so not doing the center of the mulling over the center of the second window, but rather doing the outside window square up over this. The outside window of the dormer is over the window below it. Right. And the other window of the dormer would be inside of that. Yeah, OK, that makes sense. And depending on the way they built the house, that might give you a better alignment with your rafters facing anyway. Right. Yeah. There's a suggestion of one dormer. And in the front, the dormers don't just stick out by the windows. It goes all the way across. So two of them are actually behind us and then one in our son's room next door. So it could go all the way across connecting the whole unit together. We could put one small window in the middle or not. I don't know. But I hadn't thought of that before until someone suggested the one dormer. I can see the structural problems with that because you've got a lot more span between. OK. OK, I don't know about that stuff, so. Yeah, I was talking to the wolf, some on that engineering. And yeah, it sounded like with the wider span and that lowered it becomes a bigger project. You could count on Chris Temple to steer you right. So Seth, do you think make that suggestion that the outside window of the dormer line up with the window below it? That would be my suggestion. That's fine with me. OK, any other questions, comments, or suggestions regarding the dormers and the windows and the cedar shape? Oh, go ahead. Sorry, cedar shake for the material. Yes, yeah, yeah, same, same cedar shake, same. The exterior, the exterior of the house is a brown cedar shake right now, which would be becoming gray. Yeah, yeah. And the roof, you'll match. Right, yeah, the roof we're having. Yeah, the roof we're having done. So the roof and the painting is what we put the permit in in the fall. We have that lined up to be roofed in early July and painted in late July and in August. So this would be done prior to that. So could all be roofed and painted together. I highly suggest using plenty of water and ice shield on behind the siding as well as under the shingles. Right, as far as the. Oh, go ahead. Oh, no, you keep getting cut off, you go. OK, I was just kind of curious about the windows, the new windows, and the two dormers. Are they about the same size as the windows on the front dormer? You know, these are all I've been measuring to get new window shades. They are all 36. They're the same width, so they're all the same. But the living room has these huge windows. Right, yeah, the first floor. The first floor windows are wider on the front. But right, as far as the front dormer, which was your question, that they would be the same size. But they're just single windows, not mulled. Right, right, thank you. Yeah, they aren't double. Yeah. I was just wondering your recommendation on the, because you said there were two options for the width of each dormer, eight or 10. Oh, no, I think, well, I think the suggestion they had of staying with eight by moving eight, if need be, was a good one. The question I was going to ask was just about the overhang. We mentioned that it's a 20 inch overhang, and the rest of, as we were thinking, 12 inch on the left and right of the dormer here, although was also told that that was something we could kind of look at in the, by an architect that we could look at in the field, too, just to see if more than 12 inches was looking too wide or too heavy. But I didn't know if that was anything that you had thoughts or suggestions on. If you pull it in and align it, it's probably less of a reason to go with 12, but at least 20 is a safer bet. But I have no objection to either dimension, really. I think what's important is that it scales out appropriately. OK. We could give you, give them the option to go with anywhere between a 12 and a 20 inch overhang. OK. So if in, as you were laying it out, if it looks like 18 is better than 12, you can go with 18. OK. Or whatever in between. Great, thank you. Any other comments, questions, suggestions? Non-informatic. OK. Then I can read down through the recommendation form on this one. Reservation or reconstruction of the appropriate historic style if the proposed projects in the historic district involves an historic structure acceptable. Harmony of exterior design with other properties in the district acceptable. Compatibility of proposed exterior materials acceptable. No landscaping proposed in this application. Prevention of the use of incompatible designs, buildings, color schemes or exterior materials acceptable. Location and appearance of all utilities, none applied for in this application. Recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant vistas, including gateway views of the city and statehouse acceptable. And then the recommendation was that the suggested placement of the dormers was such that the outer window of each dormer lined up with the window below the second floor. And then an optional change, the overhang could be anywhere between 12 inches and 20 inches. Based on that, all in favor of speak your name. Eric. So, Lynn. Ben. Martha. Hannah. So it's unanimous. I have one other suggestion as you talk to your engineer. I asked him about color ties. Yeah, yeah, we had had talked to him about that. Yeah, because the color ties are below where it would be cut. So, right, we are going to look at putting up above. You didn't say whether it had color ties in it or not. But it really cuts the spany rafters. It adds a lot of strength to the roof. Yeah, yeah. This would be the time to do it. Right. And again, much of the structural part of this would be inside anyway. So, for you to make it as sturdy as you want. Right. Great. Well, thank you all. It's approved. And thank you very much. And good luck with your project. Yeah, nice to see all of you again. Great to see you. Appreciate that. Yeah, the suggestions are super helpful. Thanks. Thank you. I will circulate the recommendations forms for you guys to take a look at. And you can either send back with your signature, scanned, or just confirm your agreement with the recommendations via email. OK. All right. That's good. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good night. Good night. Record her comment for when we come up for a review. Your suggestions were super helpful. We got to take note of that. That's been duly noted, Eric. Thank you, Tammy. Catherine, I can't seem to unmute you. Can you unmute yourself? I can. Hi. Awesome. We're all Zoom experts by now. So, Steve, you're all set to move on? Yes. We're on to the next application for 180 Main Street. And again, applicant honor is Catherine. Kodyus, pronounce that for me. Yeah, you got it. OK. And describe your fence to us. Sure. So we came before you before for a privacy fence, in part because our neighboring yard had some detritus in it that we were hoping not to see anymore when we were in our backyard. But we actually never built the fence and now have reason to fence in the whole backyard so that, essentially, it's a three-sided fence that connects to the house. So that creating an enclosed area for our dog and future crawling baby. So the fence will be wooden with treated wood so that it, yeah, something like that. Pressure-treated pine is what we're thinking will be affordable and aesthetically pleasing and in concert with some of the fencing projects we've been seeing around the neighborhood lately. And we're going with that a similar look. I think that we are hoping to have pergola-style gates, assuming the committee right now finds that that look. And we're not going to do the dog-eared posts that you can or not post boards that you can see here. I don't think. I just think we'll do straight across. And so the fence facing Main Street, we're asking for a variance to get it 10% above 4.5. We hear there's precedent for that. And then on the side, and we already have the approval, although the design is slightly different in that it's going to be wood instead of white. I think it was vinyl, what we proposed before. But so it'll be six feet as a privacy fence looking towards the neighbors. And then the back of the property, which just faces our own driveway, and cannot be seen from any street, North Street, nor Main, will also be 4.5 with the variance, ideally, if we can get it just because we have a tall dog. But we'll see what DRB says about that. And I'm trying to think if there are any other details. Oh, that there would be a gate in the front and the back. So you could enter from the driveway side, and you could enter from the Main Street side. And I guess I should say those who are not familiar with our property, we're up on sort of a mounded hill at 180 Main. So we're at the corner of North and Main. And you look up at our house. So the fence will not be right up against Main Street. You have to grant your neck from the sidewalk to see our fence, because it'll be set back from the hill. It won't leave much, much of an impression on Main Street pack riders or a car. I mean, you really wouldn't see it unless you were walking down J Street. And then you would be able to see probably your sight line like three quarters or half of the fence. And again, sort of looking up, because we're on sort of this little hill. I hope I did an OK job describing it. I think those are the details. I tried to include some of the trees around in that photo, so you could get a picture of what's there. There are hemlocks that line the neighbor's edge and a large crab apple that faces Main Street. A quick question. Did you consider using cedar rather than treated? Yeah. I really hesitate with kids to have treated lumber around. Yeah, I mean, I would consider untreated pine. I just don't think we can afford cedar. I mean, it would astronomically raise the price of an already expensive fencing project. It depends on where you get your cedar, too. There's a couple of places to get cedar where it's fairly cheap. There's one in Walcott, I believe, and then there's one up in Albany. That's all they do is cedar. authentic law of the homes is the name of a good supplier of cedar. OK, John Gallup of Gallup Fencing, I believe, is doing the project and suggested it would be significantly more expensive to do the cedar option. I would check the prices of some of the local supply buyers. That depends if you're talking Western red cedar or Eastern white cedar. They're radically different prices. And the Western red is very expensive. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think the difference between the look of the pine, like that brighter look versus the cedar that whether silver would not be my preference, personally. But I mean, I guess it depends on what the committee is thinking, but that silver look, I feel like, wouldn't go as well with our house. I don't know what's a toxicity level on the tree of what these days. But basically, it works because it poisons stuff. So that's not really a design review issue. It's just a suggestion. Yes, I don't know if you can. I'm sharing a screen. Is this what your things look like at your property at this point? Can you see? Yep, just a little more mode. Yeah, but I just wanted to make sure that people understood where this bank was so that they'd get a sense. Yeah, so you can see the corner of the house there. And the fence would begin along the corner of the house and there via gates. And then it would run along the length of the yard to the corner, almost to that big lilac bush, but not quite. So it's similar actually to the footprint of our house, which is 20 by 40. So it'll be sort of mirror image of the footprint of the home. Now, was your intention to either leave the fence natural color or to maybe tint it with a stain to make it slightly darker to blend in with your landscape? We had so far just been thinking about a natural color, but it's just hard for me to envision once it's up there. I mean, I'm not opposed to a stain to help with longevity and definitely with blending. But I don't think I would take it too, too dark. Yeah. That treated wood takes paint a lot better after it's sat for a couple of years. There's some really good deconciting stains that you can slightly tint or darker tint, either I mean, your option of tinting that you can get natural colors, which look really, really nice. And again, after you leave, if you use pressure treated, you can, certainly the pressure treated that's available now is less toxic than it was 20, 30 years ago. And again, after you leave it for a short period of time, even 60 days or so, it'll take a stain fairly well. Yeah. And it's pretty easy to stain it, and it will last for a long time. So again, that could just be your option. Once it's up and you look at it against the house and against the landscaping you have there, you could decide to add your option to stain it a little darker color if you thought that would fit in nicer with the site. Sure. And we could try to match it to the stairs, which eventually needs some love as well in terms of a stain. So. Does anyone else have any comments, questions, or other suggestions? No. Just one. Catherine, have you been to North Franklin Street and looked at the new fencing behind Perchlet's house? Yeah. That's actually the inspiration for them. Yeah, my guess is that's a hemlock. Oh, interesting. And that there's pressure-treated posts. I mean, pressure-treated is valuable when it's in ground contact. But as far as wood can get the air, and it's not just holding moisture, I'm certain that that's a hemlock that will just doesn't. I don't know that he's going to put a stain or anything on it, but that would be something I would go look at or talk to them. It's a beautiful fence. I think Jacob Rogan did the work there, but that is not a pressure-treated material there. Yeah, OK. I could ask Andrew for sure and talk to our guy about it. Who did you say did the work there, Ben? Jacob Rogan. Cool. Sure, he's got a busy summer, but who knows? Yeah, but who knows? But it is worth just, I figured that was the one you were referencing, so I know a little bit about that project. Awesome. OK. Any other questions, comments, or suggestions? So again, it looks like you have the options for yourself to use other wood materials for the fencing, whether that be cedar or a hemlock, or what other materials that might be available that you might prefer for any number of reasons. And you also have the option to stain the fencing after a bit to suit your plan for whatever landscaping or design you want the fence to blend in with. Awesome. Great. And I can go down through the criteria for this application as well. Number one, preservation of reconstruction of the appropriate historic style of the proposed projects in the historic district were involved in this structure, acceptable. Harmony of exterior design with other properties in the district, acceptable. Compatibility of proposed exterior materials, acceptable. Compatibility of proposed landscaping and proposed with this application. Prevention of the use of incompatible designs, buildings, color schemes, or exterior materials, acceptable. Location and appearance of all utilities, again, no utilities proposed. Recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant vistas, including gateway views of the city and statehouse, acceptable. All in favor of the application with those options for the applicant. All right. Martha says aye. That says aye. Hannah says aye. Steve says aye. And it says aye. Awesome. Got you all. OK, good. Thanks, everyone. Thank you. Thank you, Catherine. So I'll send you the again, I'll send you the recommendation form so you can review and just acknowledge receipt of it and that you agree with the recommendation forms. And then I will see you on June 1st at the DRB hearing. Great. Thank you. OK, thank you very much. Thank you. Bye. Goodbye. Has everyone had a chance to look at the minutes from the May the 4th meeting? Yes, I'm moving. Eric moved for approval. Do I hear a second? I second it. This is Martha. Sorry, I couldn't understand who it was. All in favor of the minutes of May 4th? Say your name. I. Martha, aye. Hannah says aye. Seth, aye. Liz, aye. Steve, aye. So the minutes are approved. Any other business to bring up? I have a question for Meredith. Meredith, usually at the end of our live meetings, you collect all of the materials that we have. What do you want us to do with these written materials? You can just shred them, recycle them. I collect them and recycle them. OK. So that's the only reason I usually collect them unless something's been passed around by an applicant and we're not having to deal with that now. So you can do whatever you want with any printed materials that you have made. OK. Thanks, Martha. If there's nothing else, do I hear a motion to adjourn? Eric says move. I second it. This is Martha. All in favor of adjournment, speak your name. Eric. Beth. Hannah. Martha. Ben. Steve, so meeting is adjourned. Thank you all. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Meredith. Thank you. Meredith and Mike for making this work. Yeah, thanks, Mike. Thank you very much for the coaching. You're welcome. And I will see you all. And hopefully by then you'll be able to see me on June 1. OK. Good. Bye now. Thank you. Thanks.