 Okay, welcome everyone to our TechSoup webinar, Apped Up. We're very excited to have you all here with us today and to welcome our speakers as well. So we'll go ahead and start with hearing a little bit from them. So we have Ariel Gilbert-Knight and Sean Michael. Ariel, will you go ahead and introduce yourself? Hi, everyone. I am Ariel Gilbert-Knight. I'm a technology analyst here at TechSoup, and I've been working on the Apped Up project for the past couple of months, and I'm really excited to share what we've learned so far. Wonderful. Thank you so much. And Sean, can you introduce yourself? I'm Sean Michael. I've been with the Empower Network for a little over 10 years and recently as a senior technology manager at Empower Northwest. And we've developed a school batch, and I'm going to be talking about how we get through the thought process and development process. Wonderful. Thank you. So we've got great speakers today that can help us learn a little bit more about what after out there and available, and also how to create your own app as well. So I'm the facilitator. I'm Stephanie Girning, and I'm the training and outreach manager for the TechSoup for Libraries program. And also assisting with chat today, we have Kyla Hunt, who's our webinar manager. So thank you all for joining us. And just a little bit more about what we're covering today. We're going to start off by talking just a little bit about who is TechSoup. And then we will go into talking more about the Apped Up project, what we've learned, and then Sean will share some app-appropriate strategies for creating your own app. And then we will have time for questions and answers at the end as well. So just so you know a little bit about TechSoup, if you're not familiar already, we are a 501c3 nonprofit organization, and we serve a lot of organizations distributing technology donations, over $6.3 million, and help nonprofits save money, more than $1.8 million, in 33 countries around the world. What we're really working towards is a time when every library and nonprofit and social benefit organization on the planet really has the technology, resources, and knowledge that they need to operate at their full potential. So we're really glad to have you join us today. And if you don't know much about TechSoup or would like to learn more, please visit our website, TechSoup.org, where you'll find a lot of additional information and resources, including technology, articles, products that are a donation that nonprofits and public libraries do qualify for. And we also have a very active blog, a lot of good information there for you. And at this point, I'll go ahead and turn it over to Ariel, so that she can tell us a little bit more about the AcidApp project and what we've learned as a result of it. Sorry, I think I was muted. Hi. So I'm going to talk a little bit about TechSoup's app and app project. But before we get into that, I'm going to talk about a couple of definitions. First, what is an app? An app is short for application, which basically just means an app is a kind of software. But generally, there are smaller applications that have this limited or targeted functionality. So we're not talking about a full, big Microsoft Office suite type application, but just a little bit of software that does something interesting. Some of the examples of apps we have on this slide are mobile apps, which are, I think, what most of us think of when we think of apps. These are the standalone apps that you download onto your mobile device. So something like the Foursquare app that we show here or a search app like Bing. But apps can also be plug-ins that add on to an existing tool's functionality. So something like a browser toolbar plug-in like the example we have here is a delicious browser plug-in. Or an add-on to another system, something like Dynamic CRM, for example, has an app store or exchange that allows you to do these add-ons that allow you to customize and really expand on the existing tool's functionality. Apps can also be widgets, things like a widget that shows your organization's Twitter feed on the side of your website. They're these things that are fairly easy to just plug into your existing website without a lot of sophisticated coding or technical knowledge. Apps can also be templates that make doing your daily work easier. The example we have here is SharePoint templates that make creating and maintaining your website content easier. The next thing I wanted to talk about is an app exchange. An app exchange is just a place where people can go to search for, learn about, and find apps. The example we have here is the Windows app marketplace for Windows phones. But app exchanges can also be collections of apps that are created by a certain company or organization or that meet a certain kind of need. One of my favorite examples of this is Random Hacks of Kindness. They're an organization that hosts a hacking and coding events to create apps that help meet identified community needs. And then they make these solutions that have been developed publicly available. App exchanges can also be collections of apps that are targeted at certain groups. The app gallery from an organization called Hacking Autism is a nice example of collecting apps that are useful for certain groups. In this case, they've gathered up apps that children with autism respond to. So they didn't create these apps, but they've gathered them up and shared a little bit about them that they think would be useful to their community. There are plenty of other examples of collections of interesting apps. Librarians actually are especially good about gathering and sharing mobile resources. This is just to give you an idea of the kinds of ways that apps can be gathered up and shared. And I mention all of this because these are the things we spent months talking about and researching and writing about in the App it Up project. So what is App it Up? App it Up is a tech suit project that was generously funded by Microsoft that asked the question, which is, what does it take for a nonprofit to download and use an app they didn't develop themselves? And this turned out to be a pretty big question. We had to figure out what apps are out there, what apps organizations are using, what they want an app to do, and what the barriers to creating and using apps are. So what we did to try and answer this question was we engaged with US based nonprofits and libraries to identify the apps that are out there, what they want from apps and why they aren't using apps if they're not using them. We did this through a series of surveys and interviews and then a lot of just research and reading on our own. Longer term, we want to figure out how TechSoup with Microsoft support can best support the use of apps by nonprofits and libraries and we're still figuring this out. What would be most useful for TechSoup to do? Should we be just highlighting and showcasing the relevant apps that are already out there? Or building an app exchange, kind of a central place that people can find nonprofit and library relevant apps? Or just highlighting the needs that are out there that aren't being met and encouraging developers to help meet those needs? We're working on refining that goal over the coming year. That said, we've learned a lot already. One of the things we did, as I mentioned, is a number of surveys and take the survey data with a grain of salt or a few caveats. It wasn't a very scientific survey. It was pretty self-selecting, meaning anybody who wasn't interested in apps at all probably wouldn't answer an app survey in the first place. And we didn't make a real effort to do a representative sample of different kinds and types and sizes of organizations. So keep that in mind when I talk about these statistics. One of the interesting things was that organizations are already using apps. Almost 70% of our respondents said yes, they are using apps at their nonprofit or library. And they're using apps for everyday stuff, mostly the largest number of respondents said to do their daily work, but also to engage with patrons to a lesser extent to allow patrons to access their services. So there's the engage with patrons as a more outreach-oriented and engaging with the services to be more having people access their organization services. But the really interesting thing I found here was the answers to the question, if you don't use apps, why don't you use them? And only 17% of the respondents said they weren't using apps because they were just not interested at all. The main barrier was not having the resources to support it, 55% of respondents said that. And there's also a sense that there isn't always an app that meets their needs. So what this tells us is that organizations are using apps and if they felt they were apps that were a good fit or had the resources to support them, they would probably be using them even more. The comments in the surveys and from our interviews support what we found in this survey data itself. I'm not going to read through each of these quotes, but they're just samples that illustrate some key learnings, which are that organizations do find apps valuable and useful, and we obviously agree here at TechSoup, we love apps. The apps are not just useful, but they're also fun and exciting and kind of cool. They're very interested in the possibilities presented by apps. But, and there is a but, there's a sense that there isn't always an app that meets an organization's needs and that creating an app would be complicated and expensive. So one of the things we want to do through app it up is to help change that perception, both by highlighting and sharing the great apps that are already out there, but also by helping to get some wish list apps built. We really want to make it easy to find the apps that will help nonprofits and libraries do their work and to provide enough information to be able to put those apps to good use. So one of the ways we're thinking about doing this is trying to get some of the wish list app needs addressed. So one of the questions we asked in our surveys was if you could build an app, what would it do? And we got an amazingly broad range of answers. These are just a couple of examples. So for example, apps that would provide direct aid access and information. So the ability to search for open beds in a particular region for domestic violence victims. Or in the area of volunteer management, a way to easily track volunteer hours and time on the go. And for libraries, I love this one, app-based games that help people better understand the library resources and layout to like a mobile device-based scavenger hunt that taught people how to use the library. So one of the ways we could or thinking about helping to meet those needs is through app for good type events and organizations like Random Hats of Kindness that I mentioned earlier. Code for America is another good example of this sort of organization. They're a nonprofit that helps identify projects that could benefit from web-based technology solutions and then they recruit a development team to provide those solutions. And Challenge.gov is another one that people submit ideas, social problems that need fixing. And the Challenge.gov encourages and rewards those who come up with solutions. So there are all of these coding for good kind of organizations and efforts. And one of the things that TechSoup will be doing is working with our partners to hopefully see if we can get some of these identified nonprofit and library wish list apps into these kind of challenge events to maybe get some of these apps actually built. Another way I'm thinking of helping is increasing the reach of apps that are already out there that were created by capacity-building organizations that are relevant to nonprofits and libraries. The examples on here are StoryWell, which is based on Microsoft technologies, I think primarily Silverlight, that allows people to easily tell their stories digitally so they can post videos and pictures about how they're engaging with their communities and Microsoft's working with N-Power to make this technology available to the nonprofit community. Aid Matrix is another one. It's a set of web-based fundraising and donation management tools and it was created by a nonprofit for nonprofits so TechSoup can help identify these resources that are out there and to share them with the nonprofit community. So what are we doing with all of this information that we've gathered up? We are sharing it with the nonprofit library community, of course. So we've launched an app showcase page on TechSoup.org and one of the things we're doing there is surfacing and highlighting apps that are useful and relevant to the nonprofit library community or just cool and interesting and might inspire you to think about apps in new and different ways. We're also getting your feedback. How are you using them? What other apps are out there? What kind of additional information do you need in order to start using or more efficiently use apps at your organization? One of the reasons I think this is really great is that there are so many apps out there it's hard to figure out what the good ones are or how they might be relevant in a nonprofit or library context. And so we're providing that context in the app it up showcase. So we're sharing the good apps that we've found and telling you why and how they're being used by organizations. So it's really deeply embedded in the nonprofit and library context like what is relevant to those types of organizations. One thing I wanted to highlight about this page is the list of resources around the right circle. And here we've gathered up the additional content that we've developed through the app it up project. So we've done a number of cool app roundups on the TechSoup blog. For example, we've had green apps and office apps for mobile devices and disaster relief apps. All of those roundups are included there as well as additional content such as mobile device policies for your organization, mobile device security and other related topics. And this page is evolving over time and the content is changing. So check back. There's very cool stuff on there. And I have a reminder that there was a library cool app roundup too recently. So this is a great place to just check and see what interesting stuff we're discovering through the project. So one of the questions we asked in our survey was what kind of apps are you using right now? And there were a lot of interesting answers. A lot of the apps that people were using are the big apps that I think most people use, the Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter type apps. But there were a couple of, there were many kind of interesting things that surfaced through this process. One of which is a notification app called JRescue. It was developed in response to the earthquake tsunami in Japan. And it allows people in a disaster area to provide notifications, updates and a GPS based location. And then concerned parties can search JRescue site to find dates about the person. Locavor is another interesting app. I'm a big fan of it because I'm a cook and I really like to eat locally. So Locavor allows you to find what's in season in your area. It's pretty cool. Another interesting thing we discovered through the project is that organizations are creating their own apps. One example of this is the Humane Society of Whitley County mentioned that they had developed their own app, which shows shelter and adoption information that shows adoptable animals, news, upcoming events and links for giving donations. So it's a fairly simple app that really provides a lot of information about their organization. Another interesting example was from Public Art Omaha and they developed their own Public Art Discovery app. So there's a web-based database of public art in the Omaha area that you can search using your mobile device. Just a web-enabled mobile device and they also have downloadable apps so you can use your GPS on your device in order to see what cool, interesting public art is near your location. The really interesting thing about Public Art Omaha is that they created their app. Their app was created by their local college's computer science department. So it allowed the students to get real world experience in creating an app and help their community and I thought that was a really great example of how you can get apps built without having to have the expertise in how they're necessarily spend a huge amount of money to do it. A couple of other interesting apps that surfaced in our discussions about the Appadop project. One is Dropbox and this was mentioned frequently and much loved by nonprofits and libraries. Dropbox is a file sharing app that allows you to easily transfer content, files of various kinds and it's available in an online web version and for most smart devices. So it's pretty cool, it's not device specific. TweetDeck is an app that allows you to centrally manage your organization's Twitter and Facebook accounts and the nice thing about that is if you have multiple Twitter feeds and a Facebook account you can centrally manage all of that and it lets you build a clear picture of your followers and supporters across various social media channels as well as have consistent messaging across those channels. TweetDeck is a Twitter integrated photo sharing app which allows you to easily share photos with your followers via Twitter. The next one is my personal favorite, Evernote. It's a note taking app. It allows you to save your ideas and notes and links and more importantly organize them. You can search your notes by keywords, tags, text and it works with nearly every computer and mobile device so for example I can use the desktop version on my work laptop and I have access to all the same information on my mobile phone and my laptop at home. A couple of other apps that came up through our investigation of our cool app roundup on disaster release or the FEMA app which contains disaster preparedness information for a variety of potential disasters and the Relief Central free disaster. It's a free disaster relief information resource. It includes a lot of downloaded information so even if you don't actually have Internet access or cell phone service you can still access some basic information as well as if you do happen to have that kind of access it does news updates and alerts about disaster information. So I think that was it for my section. I'm going to hand it over to Stephanie. Great, thank you so much. That was a lot of great information to share and I just have a few library apps that I wanted to share as well. If any of you have used these yourself it would be great to hear from you all but a lot of library vendors are offering apps now as part of their products which I've seen a lot of libraries that have been able to make their resources available through apps which is a great thing to do. Also the New York Public Library created their own app and actually won the Apple Education app of the year in 2011 for their Vibion which archived the 1939 World Fair. So a really gorgeous example of an app that you might want to check out. Also in the UK there are some apps that they're using in London and Newcastle City to make their library services known so you can find the library branches or find news and events and activities but also access their online catalog as well. And then Orange County Library System has an app that I find really fun that's called Shake It. And so you can search within their catalog and you can do it by genre or by types of materials or you can just randomly have it suggest something by shaking the app to have it come up for you. So we would love to know beyond these apps as well which ones that you really enjoy and we can share those out as well so if you want to use your chat to type those in that would be really great. And then now that we've talked about apps that are available already if you are wanting to create your own we're going to hear from Shawn Michael who's going to tell us more about that. Again for being a part of today's presentation I think that what TechSoup is providing in this webinar and this program is just fantastic. I know what confusion nonprofits and libraries can go through in trying to figure out what apps work, what are good apps as opposed to phishing or other malware apps and so I'm really supportive of this program. Thank you Shawn. And Shawn you might want to check and see if you can turn up your audio. We are getting some comments that it's a little hard to hear you so if you could do that that would be really great. Okay how's that? Is that better? Yeah that's good for me. Great okay. So what I just want to talk a little bit about is that MPAL has been around for about 10 years working with nonprofits who are a nonprofit itself and have been really focusing on making sure that nonprofits have the technology that they need to succeed in their mission and going forward what we would like to do is really move into that innovative space. How can we help nonprofits improve and increase their impact in the world? And so apps ended up being, the timing of it was really great. The apps ended up being a way that we were moving forward. I'm going to go ahead and start talking to you a little bit about how we thought about apps and how we decided to move forward to the ones that we are developing now. I saw in a number of the interest points in building this webinar that folks were interested in the idea of how to determine that we're going to develop an app and what resources we need to be able to develop one and successfully distribute it. So when we were thinking of a new app the first thing that we did was get input from our potential audiences. And we are really, as I said, focusing on the nonprofit sector. So we've heard a lot from nonprofits that they had existing systems that they needed just a little bit more functionality out of or that they needed to integrate with other systems. And so the two apps that we've been working on and have delivered one of them CRM 2 QuickBooks link on the App it Up page. And Storywall, which will be coming shortly, which is an integration with an existing website to display content. We defined the value proposition to nonprofits we sent to them. You will be able to do this and tested that proposition to determine if the value really was what we expected it to be for them. We had to identify partners. When you develop an application, whether it's big or small, you really have to think about distribution, marketing, how you're going to provide ongoing support, and then who are your pilots at early adopters going to be? Who can talk about the app and let others know about them? We needed to determine the fiscal sustainability of an app if applicable. Sometimes apps are developed and put out there and people can use them freely, and there is not an expectation of ongoing support or ongoing development. In other cases, there is a need for ongoing support and development. So how do you fund that? Is there a funder that's going to provide that funding? Do you need to charge a fee that type of thing? And then you need to define the support offer. Do you just provide the app as is? Is there a phone number that somebody can call? Is there an email address? Is there a web form? Is there a community of development professionals that can help provide support? And last but not least was determining the licensing model. Again, is it the free open source app? Is it something that actually is a proprietary app that you're going to provide for free? Is it the licensing based on an organization or is it based on individual users? I want to talk a little bit about the distribution model. There really are two primary models that are available. One is request and deliver, and the other is request and download. So in the first, request and deliver, you have an organization or an individual request the app. And then there is some process that you as the source for the app go through to fulfill that request, and it is delivered. The other is to request and download, which is a much more popular method of distribution at this point in time. But either method can work. It really depends on how much control or how many pieces or parts might be included in the app. In thinking about the licensing model, there are a few points I want to go over. One is the end user licensing agreement. Other folks may call these ULIF. That is common term in the software development world. But this is a legal document, and often when you're installing an app, whether it be on your phone, on the computer, or other device, it's that long legalese document that you just go ahead and click the I accept without reading it usually. But it really is very important that you think about what that end user licensing agreement says. I don't believe that it is a common thing, but it is a common enough thing that folks feel that it is necessary to have a really good type end user licensing agreement for any app that you're distributing. You can say things that says I'm not responsible for anything that you do with the app that you use it. It's at your own risk. You can go to the other extreme and provide support for service level agreements within the licensing agreement. Also in the licensing model, as I mentioned earlier, you have to think about if the license is printed to an organization or to an individual. And where this comes into play is if you have individuals who are downloading apps for use for their organization. Does the data that they gather with that app, if it collects data, does that belong to the organization or does that belong to the individual? Also the authentication that is used for the app. Yes, there is one. Sometimes it is only an email address that is the registered user of the app. In that case, it is generally an individual. However, if there is a fee being charged for the app, again, the ownership of that license needs to be identified either with the organization or the individual. And last but certainly not least is if there is link relicensing and it is based on users, then you have to determine if the license is for named users, meaning it is for each user that may use it, or concurrent users, the number of users who could be using it at any given moment. And I'm happy to answer questions along the way if there's anything that comes up that seems relevant. Or after, I believe that we have a forum set up to ask and answer questions. In talking about the payment model, I want to process it with not all apps are for fee. Many apps are available for free. And many apps in the commercial world are available to nonprofits, libraries, or educational organizations at a discounted price. It always was asking if you are looking at an app and thinking that it fits your needs. But it looks a little spendy to talk to the supplier of the app to determine if there's a discount. If you're developing the app and distributing it, however, and you are going to charge a fee for it, you have to determine how you're going to collect that fee. And this goes back somewhat to the distribution model. If you are going to invoice the organization, so there's going to be a limited number of folks that you're going to be distributing the application to, you may want to set up an invoice, you may want to set up a test receivable in your accounting system, and collect payment using those. This may happen if your primary audience through your app are people that you already know, or people that are already paying these have come forward. Pre-pay would be an example of someone requesting an app, providing payment up front, and then you making the app available to them, either for download or by delivering it to them. And then certainly there are the online payment options. Online payment options entail a lot of moving pieces, most of you are probably aware to some extent or have used online shopping carts in your daily life, whether personal or working. And the online payment options really are pretty numerous. I would highly recommend, however, if you are not familiar with the implementation of a shopping cart on your website to consult with a technology professional who is very familiar with online shopping carts. There are also many prepackaged options that are available through organizations, whether it be your bank, several online options are available. You have your operator.net, you have IS, you have PayPal, and many, many more. You may also decide that you don't want to deal with the online payment options at all. And there are organizations that will take on the full responsibility of creating a web form and collecting a payment, and then passing that payment form to you. So that is yet another option. So you absolutely need to think about support on an ongoing basis. And this is what actually is, at least from my experience, one of the biggest barriers to really skilled and talented developers providing apps to other organizations is the expectation that there will be support. You have to figure out the financial sustainability of providing that support and what level you should provide. So in thinking about a support model, one option is to think about a help desk. Is there a phone number that people can call or email that will answer questions or help them through issues if they have any issues with the app? For many apps, the help desk is at email almost or supported by a community of developers that just answer each other's questions as they're working through continuing to develop an app. In other cases, there is an actual phone number for a company. These are usually apps that have a C. And many times that C, even though it's small, is helping to support that help desk. There are initial configuration services that you may want to offer depending on the app. So for example, in our CRM to QuickBooks link app, we offer some initial configuration services so that that are included in the licensing fee so that we ensure that people get the app set up correctly at the beginning. Extended professional services may be applicable. They may not. If the app is configured and set to go and there really is not any accessibility to the app, so it does not need or have the capability of being extended to have additional features or functionality, you may not need to provide additional professional services. However, if it may be extended, changed, customized, et cetera, you may want to consider offering professional services or partnering with an organization who may offer those professional services. Another option for support is a customer forum. For example, if you buy Microsoft Office, you know that there is a customer forum for Microsoft Office in addition to their support that they offer internally so that people can answer each other's questions. Do you provide that? What are the options for providing that? Do you have the resources to provide that internally? There are also some external tools that you may use to set up customer forums so that you can provide support in that way. And last but not least, in the support model, what I wanted to talk about was the update distribution. So this is only applicable if you continue to develop the app. For example, if Facebook were to just have developed Facebook version 1 printed out there as listed, this would not be a problem. However, as they continue to update their app, they need to figure out how they distribute that update. Do you distribute it automatically? Do you give people the option to take the new update? Do you over time require people to take the update within a certain period of time? Do people have the option to select certain features that they want to update and other features that they don't? And that was just in the planning. And then, of course, you get the fun part of designing and developing the app, at least from a technologist standpoint. This is the fun part. You have the planning. Yes, there is more planning. And the planning includes deciding what features you're going to actually include in the app. You want to talk about the application framework, what platforms, what tools and languages you're going to use, etc. What is available on a Windows PC versus a Mac? What is available on a mobile device versus a Mac or PC? What features do you want? Do you want to be able to send notifications? Do you want to gather data and send it back to another system, that type of thing? Where are you going to store your data? Is that going to be in a hosted platform? Is it going to be on an on-premise server in some locations? Then you get to develop the app. And, of course, there are still been talented folks out there that can develop an app. And you want to test it. And it's best to test it without the developers testing it. And I'm sure if I could give those, I could hear a few chuckles. But testing should be done by less techy folks than developers, so that they can break it and provide feedback about the usability. There is always a revision step in the development process. You're making changes based on your testing feedback. And then, of course, you have documentation. Documentation can be at different levels. At what level it can be for the user, how to use the app. Another level may be for installation and configuration. And yet another level may be for the technical structure. And again, depending upon how you're going to distribute and license the app, you may need more or less of any of those types of documentation. The last thing that I want to talk about is piloting your app. Piloting an app, I believe, is absolutely integral to the successful launch of an app. You need to know that it works. You need to know that it works with an organization that is not your organization if you are the developer. A pilot would generally include installing and configuring the app, training users, again, non-tech users, testing the app with live data or live communications, reporting the results. Did it work? Did it not work? Was there something that the user thought they could do but they couldn't do? Was it not intuitive, that type of thing? And again, after the pilot, there's generally a revision to the app based on the feedback. And revision to documentation, associated with the app. And we've got the end of my slide. Yes, thank you so much, Sean. That was really wonderful. Thank you for sharing all of your experiences in creating apps. There's definitely a lot more involved than I was even aware of. So thank you for that. We do have some time now for questions. And we have gotten a few of those already submitted. And go ahead and fill out those in the chat. And to start with, we've got someone asked if all the apps were free. And I think some of them are definitely one piece to pay for. Some of them are ones that vendors offer when you have their products. But there were some that were free. But someone else also wanted the list of library apps. So what I'll definitely do is a follow-up log post that I'll put on TechSoup for libraries with a list of all those library apps. And I'll show you which ones are free and which ones there are charged for. And we also were asked how many organizations were surveyed. And Ariel, I don't know if you know that offhand. I think we had around 230 responses to our surveys. We slightly more slightly less. And all of the details are in the, there's a blog post that I can post a link to in the chat that has the full details of the survey results. Okay, wonderful. Thank you. And Beth asked what the difference is between a plug-in and a widget. So who wants to answer that one? I may give the wrong answer. But from my perspective, they're basically the same thing. There may be more technical uses of them that differentiate between them. But they're basically the same thing. They're just something you can add on to an existing tool to make it better and customize it. Okay, great. Thank you. And Brandy asked if anyone knew anything about Bootsy for libraries. I don't know about that. Does anyone else? Definitely look into it. Bootsy is an app development company, I believe, that has actually been, as far as I know, the basis for a number of particular library apps. But beyond the fact that libraries have used Bootsy to develop their library apps, they don't know that much about it. Okay, wonderful. Great. We'll definitely look into that as another tool. And again, if any of you have experience with that, feel free to add that in the chat and let us know if you've used it before. And then Elaine asked any advice for those of us who are contemplating the use of third-party software for building a simple app. Sean, what do you say? Do you have any advice? Using third-party software to build the app. Right. Well, I would probably need to know what third-party software. There's many different options that are available. And depending on the option that's selected, it could be a really good fit with the systems that they have or it could not play well with the systems that they have. And so it's worth looking into what development tools that they would be using and how well those play with their systems or the systems they want to plug into. Okay, great. How about video editing apps? Anyone have any information on those? Any you would recommend? I don't think I've used any video editing apps. I would say that there are a lot of video editing apps that are out there. Again, depending on the internal IT expertise and systems of the user and what you're using, whether it's MAC or PC, will help to determine the results or down what tools are appropriate for you. And also, I would throw out there that there are video editing apps that are available through TechSoupStock at a very, very low price that are full business class applications that may be useful to those. Great, thank you. And someone added to our discussion about the widgets and add-ons and B.J. said he thinks those widgets as something you can embed on a web page and add-ons as something you would add to a program. That's kind of an interesting distinction there. Maybe like adding on to a web browser. Yeah, and actually Anna, one of our fellow TechSoupers and ad-appers added a similar note that plugins are used by the end user and widgets are for a website. So widgets can be seen by anyone who visits the website. So thank you for clarifying. And Sean, what do you use for development? I actually use a variety of tools. I will use the Visual Studio product from Microsoft to do .NET or Windows based programming. I will also use some open source tools such as PHP or MySQL to do some cross-platform development. There are a variety of tools that are available. Wonderful, thank you. Any experience with BizApps for mobile phone app building? Was that a question to me? Sorry. Sure. You did that. With my little phone app, one of the cool things that has kind of developed over the last few years and others might be able to chime in on this a bit is that the ability to develop for the mobile platform has become much much easier. So if you go into pretty much any kind of interactive development environment tool, whether it be Visual Studio or other tools that are out there, you have the ability to develop for the mobile device within the same tools that you're developing apps for full PCs or larger devices. I think the tricksy thing there is just to remember how much realistic you have on a phone, especially smaller phones depending on your audience, and the capability of the enormous range of quality of phone technology needs to be taken into account. Sure, definitely. And any free survey apps that either of you have used? I have primarily used SurveyMonkey, and they do have nonprofit pricing that is available. I've not used one that is completely free. Okay. Great. And I think that's about all of our questions. Misty asked, what was the mobile phone app BizMap? Sure. Have you used a BizMap, maybe? I'm not certain. Sorry. Okay. Okay. Well, thank you all. And definitely, I learned a lot. And definitely appreciate the apps that I use more now as well, knowing all of them, everything that goes into developing them and sustaining them. Oh, thank you all very much for sharing. And we would love to continue this discussion as well. So if you do have additional questions, you can post them in our community forum. You just go to the app it up forum. You'll see that there is one developed for you already that you can ask your questions, and we can get back to you on that. We also have an evaluation form for this webinar if you could take it so that we can improve how we offer webinars to you. That would be appreciated as well. And now, and Tyler has shared that out in the chat box as well. So thank you so much to both of our speakers for letting us know about what's out there and what we can do to develop new apps ourselves as well, or maybe to be cautioned about everything that needed and to be able to make that happen successfully. We do want to thank our webinar sponsors, and we do have a lot of tips and tricks online for contributing to the software of this program. Go to webinar. And again, thank you all for attending, and thank you to our speakers. Please keep up with our app it up project, and we'll be sharing more information as we learn more from all of you. Thank you. And a big thank you to Microsoft as well for their support of the app it up project. We'll receive a recording and archive of this webinar as well.