 Tuesday I'm Jay Fidel. This is Think Tech. We're talking about restaurants in Hawaii with our executive director of the White Restaurant Association, Cheryl Matsuoka, who is a very dear person. Hi, Cheryl. Thank you for joining us this morning. Can you introduce our guests? Yes, absolutely. Happy New Year, Jay. We have Ladies First, Meredith Kalad. She is the vice president and branch manager of Norman S. Wright Pacific. And we also have John Knapp, president and CEO of Power Shaver Air and Energy Saving Systems. And what we're going to talk about is air quality in restaurants and why air quality makes restaurants safer and why safer is better to reopen restaurants. It's all part of a larger initiative to make restaurants more appealing, more safe to the public and visitors. So what did I miss, Cheryl? What are we going to talk about? Can you reframe that better, maybe? Absolutely. So restaurants and food service organizations have the highest standards set by the FDA and the CDC, as everyone knows. You know, you're eating, you're putting things in your mouth, you're drinking wine, right? The Hawaii Restaurant Association holds educational webinars on important topics to assist our restaurant members' success, right? The information we receive from the CDC is that this virus, COVID, is an airborne virus. And so in December, we held a well-attended webinar on air quality and today, we will continue this important conversation. So how does a restaurant, a retail store, or any business operate safely during a pandemic? Yes, so their employees, their patrons all feel safe while they're working, enjoying a meal or doing business. So today, we're going to talk about how air quality is so important and how to reduce this airborne COVID-19 virus in our restaurant and businesses. Very important. I'm glad you set up that webinar a few weeks ago and I'm glad we're doing this today. I want to get the word out because we want to make patrons feel comfortable in restaurants and this is one of the ways, maybe a very important way to do that. So let's start, let's go on the basis of age, okay? Marita's your first. Can you describe your company and what it does for air quality and what it does for air quality in restaurants and how you achieve this mission? Thank you so much, Jay. My name is Marita Escalade, everybody. Aloha again. A company I work for is called Norman S. Wright Pacific. I have an engineering background and been with the company for about 23 years now. And when I started with Norman Wright, indoor air quality was always an issue, right? But it got more of a critical topic post-pandemic or when the pandemic happened and we still actually were still in it. And so essentially, I mean, really looking at any indoor space and how do we make the air indoor safe, clean and healthy for all of us to breathe in and out. And so with Norman Wright associated with a lot of manufacturers that manufacture air purification, we have obviously with the technical background we have, we are able to implement these products in existing HVAC, either restaurants, retail, ballrooms, hotels, whatever the case may be, to make sure that the air quality, not just viruses, but other things that may be in the indoor air quality that's affecting the again, the quality of it and treating that air purifying it and making it better. So we have different technologies, we have different systems, we have different products, we look at different situations, we look at a situation differently. So every restaurant may be different, restaurant A may be different from restaurant B. And so we have the solutions for that. Well, can you name some of them? You know, what is the technique? What can you name some of the technologies so we get a handle on how they work and how effective they might be in the circumstances? Okay, of course. So a lot of the restaurant owners and you know causes an issue, so they look at what can we do with our existing system to air purify the air, to make sure our guests are safe, to make sure our employees are safe. So there's a technology called ionization. We represent a specifically needle point bipolar ionization that we can install in any AC system that you can think of. As long as there's airflow, what it does, it actually gives or emits ions into the spaces where people are and with the ions are charged, they're looking for anything in this space that they can attach themselves to. And when they attach themselves to these different things in the space, virus, mold, bacteria, you know, dander, any really fine particles, they mute, they mute, they change the characteristic of those things in the air quality, in the air purifying it. So what does it do with the virus? The ions actually rub the layer that the layer of protein that the virus is fitting off from to stay alive. And once the ions actually rub or attach themselves to the layer of protein or food, that gets just, you know, obviously broken apart, obviously no longer allowing the virus to have food killing it. And it's the same case for, again, the molds and other bacterias, it's just disturbing the layer that anything eats to survive. That's on the viruses and the bacteria is on the mold side. Then when you have fine particles here, there are things that our filtration cannot handle. And so you have asthma issue and people, you know, when they inhale or taking some of these fine particles, it really affects their respiratory. What the ions do is they actually attach themselves to these really fine particles, make them bigger so that once they're bigger, they either drop on the floor or go back to the filter, getting them filtered and not allowing them to go back into the space. So we're always air purifying the air. As long as there's power to the ionization, it's creating millions and millions and millions of ions. It just, it's going in and out of that room. And again, always treating whatever, whatever's in the space. Okay, many questions flow out of that. But let me ask you, John, to compare. Your company is what? Sustainable Hawaii, is it? What is your name of your company? Power Shaver, Air and Energy Systems. Oh, I knew that. VBOS Hawaii is one of our authorized distributors in the islands here. Okay. And what do you do in this regard? Are you in the same place with the same techniques as Maritus? Well, Maritus did a great job of explaining the problems that are inherent to indoor airspace, breathable airspace, especially restaurants, as she's accustomed to as well, being a restaurant owner herself. The restaurant industry battles with foodborne illness, molds, and a constant load, new load, and we'll call people load, as well as the food that's being brought in and make up air. Food storage is a terrible place for pathogens to gather, because there are non ventilated areas, as well as the ice machines, restrooms behind the cook, cook lines, things like that, that always get the attention they need. So you do need a method to purify your air. Active filtering is good, but limited, as she mentioned, because of a particulate that is smaller than the filter can handle, especially in a high turnover area. The ionization that she mentions is very good, and we also, our technology implements ionization as well. But on top of that, we also offer a oxidation that's generated, a natural peroxide that is then sent out on the positive and negative ions. So we have the ability to inactivate cells and bacteria and viruses with just ionization, but also the peroxide created like the sun, natural peroxide and the air oxidation to consume and split cells to render them inactive and much like hydrogen peroxide works that you can see work on, say a SOAR or something like that consumes the actual cell and nucleus of the pathogen, whatever it may be. And so these are all natural. Ionization is natural peroxides and natural. Our technology is slightly different, but the results are the same. So have you been doing this for a while, or is this a more recent, you know, element in your business? I've been in this industry air purification before getting into the energy reduction industry. So about 16 years, I worked with the original company that took the NASA technology and photo catalytic oxidation, but then back then and then moved on when this technology was improved upon. So I've been with this technology holder, which technically is the same company. I'll say it that way for 14 years or 14 with this one. Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. If I may, I mean, ionization is nothing new, but the bipolar, you know, bipolar ionization that we represent, I've been, you know, representing it since 2016, but it's been employed in casinos and different, you know, different applications since early 2000. So it's, but again, the technology and the way, the power of ions, it's nothing new. Well, but, you know, in the past year, you know, this has been a very sharp issue because, well, look at all the restaurants that have been closed by, you know, governmental authorities and people are afraid as a result, you know. And my question is, is there somebody out there, the companies that supply you with these devices and technologies making changes? Do they write you and say, you, Maritas, we got a better product today than yesterday. We're working on this 24 by seven. We want to give you the cleanest day you've ever had. Is that what you're getting these days? Yes, absolutely. A global plasma solution has grown dramatically, as you know, since March of last year, they've grown so much because of the demand, but they're continually improving. They want to make sure that they're creating ions. The more ions, the better. So they're figuring away, how do we make it from 200 millions of positive and negative to 500 million positive and negative off of the product. So they're continuing that they have a huge R&D department to make it easier for us. Less maintenance, easier to install, you know, everything else, but always looking at ways to not only create more ions, but to accommodate different situations, just like airplanes, just like cars. Now they're looking at that now. I've created one for my car, but obviously it's homemade, but they're doing that again. And for the air in your car? Yes. Yeah. Interesting. So I want to dig down a little bit and start with you, Marie, just about it. So in a restaurant, I walk into a restaurant, and there are essentially two risks, as I see it, I'm a layman about this. The air in the restaurant has antigens in it. Okay. That's, you know, from the kitchen, as John mentioned, from all the action, the people, what have you. That's one. It's the, what do you call it, the ambient air all around in the restaurant. One of the reasons why, you know, it's safer to eat outside. And so you're trying to achieve the kind of atmosphere that's outside, which fewer antigens, I think, I hope. Okay. The other, the second thing that occurs to me as John Q. Public is talking, talking to the guy at the other end of the table. And I don't know if you could do too much about that, because as he's talking, he's laughing, he's breathing, he's sending me, I should say he or she is sending me antigens from his body. And that's probably, as we know, even, even from January 6, when now a number of legislators have tested positive, because they were close to people without masks. That's one of the very, you know, one of the various problems that emerged out of January 6. So, you know, that's another issue. And I wonder if the systems that you guys are, you know, adopting and refining deal with the second one, we get back to the first one. What can you do to protect me from my, my, my date, so to speak, my partner in the meal, if anything. Right. Thank you. That's a, that's a loaded question, because I go out a lot. I love to go out and even with my family. But, you know, when I go out to restaurants, you know, obviously, I'm entertaining people, obviously, do the normal thing, ask the questions, okay, have you been tested lately? Have you been around a group? Are you safe? Are you okay? So, you know, are you telling me the truth? That'd be the last question. I think that the sharing has to go away now, right? You know, you put your utensils in your mouth, and then, you know, we love to taste other people's food. I think that has to stop just to protect ourselves. I think it's just making sure, again, I think the sharing is huge, touching people's hands. If you know that you're, it's just hygiene, I think, because it's really important. I'm not sure if you can have a conversation six feet away, but I'm on my table right now, a person can be six feet away and have the conversation. Not so intimate, but at least, you know, see who you're dealing with. Make sure you set some ground rules and protect yourself. Tell them no jokes at the table. You know, I love to tell jokes. I love to tell jokes, and so I'm always, I always have a napkin in my hand just to make sure that I'm covering my mouth when I'm talking. Well, I think I hear you saying, Rita, and I'd be interested in John's view of this, is that on the second thing I, the second risk I mentioned, there's not too much that your companies can do. You're dealing with the ambient air, not the air. Am I right? At the table. That is correct. Yeah, so maybe that has to be other things. I'm sure Cheryl can talk about other things. But before we get to Cheryl on that point, what about John? What do you think? Am I right about bifurcating this issue between the ambient air and the air at the table? And is there a system that you would suggest for the air at the table? The air at the tail depends on distance and force behind your breath, and the amount of ions that may be present in the air saturated the environment and oxidation that's present. To be able to remediate that pathogen before it gets too far from you. That's the idea of creating a safe air environment and air quality in an environment. We have product that hangs around your neck and forces of ions and oxidation right up in front of your face. So at that point, it's right here. You're stopping the spread of that to some extent. You can't say 100% because people are people and they use them incorrectly and they tell jokes and laugh and jump up and down that type of thing. But there are different levels of protection. You can start with right next to you and you can start with a product on your table. We have about 150 products that incorporate our technology that are applicable in many different environments and vehicles in homes. You name it. As well as hanging right on you for going on airplanes, going on subways, on buses, where you have products. Was it hanging around your neck? Yes, hanging around your neck. It throws ions up in front of your mouth. You can put them right up with a little fan right up in front of your face. So that helps you not breathe in anything that you don't want to, but as well helps anyone around you. Nothing is 100%. You have those now? Yes, we've had them for many many many. Are people using them? They do. Interesting. Cheryl, I know that there have been various creative things done for the guests at the table in my number two scenario. Can you talk about what some restaurants have been doing with plastic, for example? You're muted. Sorry, they're putting up the partitions so that when we're laughing and we're joking, we're drinking. So the partitions, number one, also ensuring that right now we're at five people per table according to our governor's mandate. And so that's the reason for the contact tracing. Be sure that you know all the people within your party so that it is safer for you. You don't keep a record though. The restaurants don't keep a record. We do keep a record. Who's there in the party? That would be a good idea, wouldn't it? We have to. So if you come to my restaurants that I'm a partner in, as you know, I'm a partner with the Kukaku restaurants, we have a QR code and the QR code is linked to a Google doc or let's say a Microsoft teen stock and you take a picture of the QR code and you can enter your information on your phone. You know, I'm Jay Fidel. This is my email address and my phone. That's all we need is your phone number and email address. And then we keep record of that and it's mandated that we keep record of it for I want to say 20 days, but we're keeping it longer and we're just keeping it in file and it's just file digitally. People can fill it out before they enter the restaurant. So when they come in, we just double check. Oh, you've already filled out your contact tracing form as long as it's one person in the party because you kind of know who you're dining with. Should anything happen, we can contact Jay Fidel and say there was a situation tonight and we wanted to alert you. So that's through the contact tracing. Yeah, that's pretty good. That's good. That's attending to the issue. May not be saving the person, but at least it's notifying him. So, John, I want to go to you and ask this question in my scenario number one, the ambient air. Is there a way to with any of these systems that you've talked about, is there a way to measure the pathogens in the air? You know, like X pathogens in every, so I'll make it up, cubic square foot. I mean a cubic foot. How many pathogens do we have? You know, what I'm thinking is if you advertise that to me with a little sign on the door and say we are down to three pathogens per cubic foot, that's really very ambitious. You know, and you can come in here and you know that you don't have a lot of pathogens because our companies, you know, have knocked off the pathogens largely. I mean is there a way to measure the risk of the air in a given space? In a scientific environment, yes. In a restaurant environment, no. You can measure ions in a particulate in the air, but you cannot identify them in such a manner that's quick enough to know and to guarantee anyone anything. That's the problem, especially particulate that is too small to measure, such as, you know, aerosols and things like that. So yes, particulate you can and particulate generally will have things clinging on to it that are negative that you could bring at the end of any type of viruses and bacterias and such. So no, not in real time to be able to tell anyone. What you can depend on are the scientific studies of the products that we're talking about when properly installed any facility, such as a any facility, but in this case a restaurant, when the air distribution system is properly equipped to handle the loading of the facility and perhaps you deal with the personal airspace and the table-mounted purification system, you've dealt with multiple zones of protection. That's pretty much all you can do because every time someone different comes in and they can introduce something different into your environment, there are numerous countless pathogens and bacteria and combinations of such that could be in there and who knows what's going to bother you. Sure. Information really is not too helpful in a real time. It's dynamic. The whole restaurant experience is dynamic. Just like everywhere else that people are here. But Maritas, if I'm a restaurateur, make me a hobbyist restaurateur. Call me a guy who has millions and billions and I come to you and say, look, I don't care what it costs. I want to go out to my patrons and tell them that I have got the very best air in any restaurant in Hawaii. You give me any system or any combination of systems, I'll pay the freight. What are you going to recommend and what can this restaurateur say to his patrons to convince them that this is the best they could have and it is the most modern, most effective technology. Right. And we have that. We actually have a system where you can actually have bipolar ionization. You have the UVC light and a HEPA filter all in one. And that takes care of all the things that you have in your space. And as long as you have air flow, you feel air going through your space. Air conditioning is part of this. Air conditioning is one of those elements. Air conditioning or if you have a way to introduce air into your space, let's just say you can't get to your air conditioning system and you say, Maritas, I don't have a way to get to my AC, but I want the air in my restaurant clean and air purified. We have that system for you. It would be a fan, a HEPA filter, UV lights, and the ionization all in one. All in one unit. How big is the unit? It must be huge, no? It really depends on your square footage. You know, livestock has about eight ton unit. That's about 3,200 CFM, 3,200 square foot. And it's not that big. As long as you have the air flow, you're good. Okay. So now for a moment, you're my media person. And I asked you, I said, look, I'm going to put an ad in the paper. In fact, Cheryl and I are going to collaborate on this ad. And the ad's going to say, come to my restaurant, you know, Fidel's restaurant. What do I say in there to convince people that I'm at the top of the line in terms of air quality? Draft the ad for me. Wow. Okay. Well, I love making fires, but essentially, I mean, it would be headline. Come dine with us, you're safe. We're air purifying the air with ionization to kill. You know, a lot of the diners don't have the scientific verbiage or words. So we'll kill the virus. We'll make sure you're not inhaling mold. We're killing the bacteria. We're getting rid of fine particles. We're taking care of smell. And if there's smoke, we get rid of that too. It's the cleanest air you can possibly have while dining and having a dining experience. Okay, John, what would you add to that, if anything? Would you suggest an ad like that? You just have to tell that you're doing the best you can do with the best technology on all three fronts. Basically, our technologies, clean surfaces and air, sanitize the return air system, and they have the filters you may put in so nothing can grow in there. I will say that Hawaii probably has the best air quality because you're surrounded by the largest oxidation generator in the world. So open all the doors and windows in Hawaii and get some fresh air in if you're challenged beyond that. If you are challenged and cannot do that, then replicating the outside air sanitization system that nature has indoors is the best and it consists of all of these things that Meredith has mentioned. Yeah, this is an interesting dilemma there. I have a dentist, dental work has a certain risk these days. He opens all the doors to his dental office. The air is coming in, going out. It's almost like an outdoor environment because all the doors or everything he can open is open. It's not a bad idea. But moving along that track, John, you guys have been talking about technologies for restaurants, I imagine. It's not all that cheap. But that would suffice in a business setting and you could make statements like the ad we're talking about. But what about me at home? Because right now, I don't have people in my house. Sorry. I've given up my friends. I've given up social interaction in my house. Maybe someday it'll be safe already, but I'm not counting on any particular day. Maybe I want to be able to tell my friends and myself that I'm okay. That it's okay if you come over and have dinner with me and restaurant in the house, if you will. Are these systems that you guys are describing useful in residential settings, John? Definitely. We have applications, portable units for not just for residences. You can put them in your cars, your motor homes, anywhere you want. They're adjustable to the square footage of the facility, whether it's a home or whatever. It's a confined living space is what you have. We have permanently installed units that can go in your ductwork and your HVAC system, which is not that common in Hawaii. The portable units are best that include oxidation, ionization, and filtering. They can be moved anywhere in the facility. You can take it to your guest home on the big island when you go over there and entertain people. The portable aspect is very good. If you're cooking fish in the kitchen and gets a little bit too pretty, you just turn it up. It takes the odor right away. The smoke goes away. There are many benefits to portable units. We have units that will address homes up to 3,000 square feet, up to 15, up to 500, so to meet any need like condos and such. Yeah. Well, I think that's a whole new thing. Let me expand that question for you, Maritas. What about offices? A lot of people have stopped going to the office for the same concerns. There are buildings in Hawaii that have very robust air conditioning systems, but maybe not adequate to deal with these pathogens. My question is, is there a future here, not only for residential, but for office space? Yeah. Thank you. No, we actually installed ionization in all of our offices, all normal red offices, but as soon as COVID-19 hit, I had it half of our system because people would call and sick and they're like, if someone is sick on the next cubicle and then everyone else gets sick, so I put ionization in, and that actually took care of all people getting sick, which is really amazing. And once COVID-19 hit, we put it in our system. I have it in my house, but there are some offices that air distribution, the air isn't really hitting the areas where people are because people actually move around furniture and they move things around. And so we, I thought of the ionization fan, so we put the ionization product on a fan, oscillating fan, and you can just have it running before your guests arrive, when your guests leave, so during your party or dinner, so you're constantly air purifying the air. So there are some inexpensive solutions for people. I mean, obviously the portable ones is great because they have more airflow they can reach, but we can think of a lot of things. As long as there's air movement, we can air purify the air. Well, Cheryl, we certainly have covered some ground here. It seems to me that the restaurants and the solution to this problem, the air problem in the restaurant, and the footnote is that what is the big contagion factor with coronavirus? It's the air, it's airborne, and you have to deal with this and maybe we haven't dealt with it enough. And maybe the restaurants are like pioneering this issue, that other people can use the technologies that are being developed and deployed in restaurants in their homes and offices. So actually, I think the restaurants may be doing a service, and John and Maritas doing a service for the community going forward, because if it isn't coronavirus, it's something else virus, we'd better get used to cleaning up our air. So why don't you clean up the program, Cheryl? What's your summarization here today? So again, thank you so much, Jay, and Think Tank Hawaii for giving us this opportunity. Thank you to John and Maritas for joining us. And again, Hawaii Restaurant Association is the voice of the restaurant and food service industry. We provide information out there, just like what we talked about today, and it's all relevant, Jay. Whether you're a gym, whether you're a retail, people are still talking, people are still, you know, especially in a gym, right? So they need to hear this information. So you're providing a valuable service. And Hawaii Restaurant Association, we always provide information such as air quality, PPP, 2.0 is coming around the corner, John. As you know, I mean, Jay, as you know, it's already been released. Commercial lease rent relief is what we're working on. So if anybody's out there in the food service industry and would like to receive our free e-newsletters, just subscribe. It's hawaiirestaurant.org. All right, Cheryl, John, Maritas, it's great to have you on the show. There's a great invaluable discussion. You guys are great. And you know, you're good enough to be on, maybe you should be on Think Tank Hawaii. You should come around, yeah? I'm only kidding. You are. You should do it again. Thank you, John. Thank you, Maritas. Thank you.