 Almost every day. I wish I could just turn away, but I can't I said that that's exactly how I am I can't ignore it. I can't ignore because it's happening to them. It's happening to me Okay, so here we are this is another episode of the Carb Strong cast I'm new to podcasting But it's a real honor to have Fiona Oaks in with us today. Hi You just took us on a lovely tour of one of your locations here for your animal sanctuary Yeah, and it's grown a lot. Now. You're a world record holding vegan runner. Yeah, but you don't really consider yourself that much of a runner No, I don't consider myself anything of a runner to be honest with you I just started running purely to promote veganism Well, and we look around in the room and there's just metal after metal and there's right behind me There's this hangar full of metals and trophies everywhere. You've really got an amazing sort of Well, what would you call it a portfolio full of marathons and wins and races and yeah, I've tried to mix it up for the animals I just wanted I just run to promote veganism and I Only started running because I run the sanctuary. I've I've founded it 26 years ago and A couple of years after we started at all, you know animals are just coming thick and fast They still are yeah, we need to address the cause of why they're coming in Yeah, and I need to promote veganism because I've been vegan for now now. I've been vegan for 47 years I went vegan when I was six. Wow so how I think I went self-inspired vegetarian. It's three years old just rejection of meat intuitively Yeah, yeah, and it was a case of I just started asked my mom Well, you know, what's the deal? Why do we take and my mom was very honest and I'm blessed that she was very honest I will say at the time Why if I'm very inspiring about? People like yourself is you have such amazing reach and a role model for younger people And we were fortunate back in 1970s that my mom had a role mom mom was a pianist She was actually taught by a vegan lady It was a piano teacher and they kept in touch after my mom left school And she was helped kind of able to articulate to my mom in adult terms what I was going through as a child It wasn't difficult and my mom when I was in hospital with my knee surgeries My mom was accused of child abuse Allowing me to be vegan veganism was aligned to an eating disorder That's crazy my mom stuck her heels in and it was not difficult My dad was on strike as a minor. We got no family money coming to the house part from my mom's wage But she stuck her heels in said it is cruel to lie to your child not to tell them the truth Wow And yeah, so I've always had my mom's backing and I think that's very very important If you can influence or support a person in any way shape or form It's important that you do that because I've always had my mom was my rock But yeah, we only started running to promote veganism I've been vegan at that time for about 30 years and I wanted to get out there and the animals need to stop coming into a Sanctuary, that's what we need to can't keep hitting at the symptoms. You've got to get at the cause That's it. So there was no social media. This is back in the early noughties I've always been sporty even though I've got my knee injury I was told that I would never walk properly let alone run again after the surgeries wait a second You had knee surgeries. You were told you were never gonna run again. Yeah, I was yeah I was very sporty as a teenager and I developed this like gross condition and my knee kept crumbled I had to have it removed and I was told that it would mean that The running was out you wouldn't walk properly and indeed I don't when you look at me run Olimp, everybody knows. Oh, I knew it was you. I saw you in the distance. You were limping. Oh, thank you And so I took the cycling and he's did a lot of competitive bike racing because that's single motion, you know Yeah, no no impact We got the sanctuary I didn't have the time or the money for cycling because you got to buy it like four hours a day really heavily trained I didn't have the time for that But I wanted to do something and the only sport Especially women's sport who's getting any attention Marathon running because of Paula Radcliffe and it was being billed as it's really tough in Dure and Sylvain You've got to be superhuman to do a marathon And I thought well, okay if I could just Compete in and complete a marathon it proves that you can do anything as a vegan. Yeah, simple equation Wow, better get good at Marathon running and It wasn't a plan to you know go and break world records or anything like that It just kind of grew organically and I kind of wanted to do more and do more and do more so I started playing road running Did what I could with the road running? I got a personal best of 238 in top 20s in like London great enough run won the main start And then I kind of mix it up, you know, do I go off and win smaller marathons? You know, do I look at these extreme races? Yeah, just for the animals just to prove a point You can do this as a vegan amazing Seems you're very driven and after you complete something like a really tough marathon It's like afterwards you're still looking for more. What else can you do to sort of message forward? Yeah, exactly I mean you if I thought that I'd reach the pinnacle of what I could do I'd back away and just concentrate on something else Yeah, it's all for the animals So if you've run fast marathons if you've run hot marathons if you've run a marathon at the highest altitude ever What else can you do to show that a vegan can do anything and actually do it better than most? It's really crazy to me that you're sounding you just you're speaking like you did this marathon But it's a lot tougher in practice than it is just you know how you're explaining it Like what are the struggles of running these tough races? Yeah? I mean to explain if people are interested in the kind of logistics behind it To run a fast Marathon on the road to get down sub three sub two fifty sub two forty as a woman is fast It's like getting an Olympic qualifying times The training is very rigid. You can't miss a session. You're running nine times a week You're doing speed work. You're doing hill. Everything. You don't even define a day about oh, it's Tuesday You think oh you wake up and you think oh everything aches and it's ten eight hundred meter pushers at lunchtime and an evening Yeah, it's hard. It's really really brutally hard You're looking for about a hundred a hundred and ten miles a week every week just training training Wow, you're looking for a long run on a Sunday of Over-distance you could probably go in 28 miles the whole idea of that is Getting your body to accept the fact of punishment you in a marathon running at pace You will hurt so much. You won't even dare think what's hurting next So you've got to have been there day in day out and your mind's not you screaming at you stop doing this to me Stop doing but it's always screaming stop doing it's screaming on a Tuesday when you're doing ten eight hundred meters It's screaming every day So for me Yeah, it was always throughout running a hundred and ten mile a week in training Nailing every session to get that to where you could be on race day And that's a testament to the veganism because you don't just magic these times up It's about recovering and being able to keep doing it year in year out an interesting fact is I have never in an almost 20-year running career had a running injury I've had injuries that have stopped me from running, you know like when I went to MDS in 2012 I went with two broken toes Okay, that was caused by horse standing on them that I've never injured myself or had a conventional running injury It seemed like you were injured before you started your running. Yeah, yeah, I mean I yeah I've got this limp along situation going on where I was told that I would never run and you know I don't run conventionally. In fact when Keegan I never look at myself doing anything because it's just too Render to even contemplate but Keegan kept sending these bits of film footage through the film and I wouldn't look and I might just Catch a glimpse here and there and then I went out to LA for the film premiere And I was gonna sit at the back of the cinema and like Kind of hide and Richard said oh you must come down the front and watch it Oh Christ not seen it yet, and he said he must be very proud of it I was like what do you who wants to watch yourself in a giant scream and I thought okay Calm down Fiona. You're in the Sahara desert. You've got all the cool kit on you've got a lot decent And then all of a sudden I saw this like Quasimodo type figure limping out the desert And I thought no, you don't even look good in the desert And I do kind of limb quite heavily even if you look at my shoes Keegan noticed it one shoes worn down You know she was not But it's mind over matter. It's the reason you're out there. This is the only thing I can do To help the animals so let's just give the listeners who don't know what film you're talking about you in a film called running for good Yeah, a documentary about your life story. Yeah, and Keegan Kuhn He's one of the directors producers of Cowspiracy and what the hell yeah, and he worked with you creating this film I watched the film. I think two nights ago Very inspired by it now one of the things that really blew my mind Is that the other day? I decided to run a marathon without training just to see if I could do it basically and to prove the diet and things like that and I had a sore knee a knee problem I sort of stopped me from running about 33 kilometers in then after watching your film What blew my mind is that you don't have a kneecap You're missing a kneecap and you still run these altars how I don't know I mean it hurts But it's I don't encourage people to go out and hurt themselves physically So they're not gonna be able to walk again and end up in a mine hurts when I'm running I've learned to manage it. I know it'll probably stop hurting when I stop running Yeah, but there's no way I'm gonna stop running until I get to the finish line Nothing mind over matter. It is mind over matter The pounding of road marathons you're in the same position for two hours and 40 minutes or whatever you're out there That's kind of hard at 20 miles a marathon starts at 20 miles and people you say I know you say no It doesn't it starts at mile one. It really does. That's when the pain the fatigue really gets it It's the way you manage it And I think I manage it better than most because I'm out there for a different reason than a selfish reason I want to run a certain time or I want to win a race I want to do something which I think can impact on those that I love more than myself And I actually feel it's a lot easier to do something For another creature or being then it is to do it for yourself. I really do feel that So for me, I can really hand it out to myself But I'd never can't even contemplate what it'd be like to harm another living creature But when it comes to me if that's the one thing I can do to help them Well, then we'll get out and do it So it's like when when you feel like giving up you look outside of yourself and realize what you're doing it for Who you're doing it for and it drives you and you sort of sacrifice. It's also like a sacrifice. Well, yeah What are they going through? It gives you this perspective in that moment and that's what drives you forward Whatever you're hurting can't be a fraction of what they're hurting and at the end of the day You can stop. Yeah, they can't open that cage door. No, they can't be free I mean the terror and the fear of oh, it's just incomprehensible and you know what drives me And it's probably a little bit unpolitically correct. Anger. Well anger and frustration is what I run on Wow, sometimes I'm out there on fumes. I'm so tired Yeah, I'm so angry and it's I've I really got to do this in the 20th century 21st century now To prove that veganism is the way forward. I've got to do this to myself. I've got to keep doing this to myself Obviously I have for the time being and that's what it's the injustice. Yeah, and it seems to me Having a sanctuary for so long. You're on the front lines. You're you're directly involved with the victims of this You know animal agriculture this injustice So I guess you've suffered a lot of upsets and losing animals and you know Tell us about that that struggle. Yeah I mean, it's really really hard in some plans people say it must be easy for you because you actually care for the animal So you actually firsthand see those that are benefiting from the efforts that you're putting in But on the other side you go out and you feed your animals And you see them happy. Yeah, but They're not the animals that look back at you No, the ones in the crates look back at you and you think but for a twist of fate This little cow or this little sheep or this little pig could be in a crate. Yeah, it's a real life They they were going that way. They were heading that direction down the slaughterhouse It even hurts more To think and you know, I never think about the ones that you can rescue and physically help Obviously, I do because I look after them every day But you're always one step ahead and thinking about those that you can't physically touch You want to do something for them? Just in the hope in the hope that one person might just the light bulb might go on and that's what drives me on I really don't go keep going out there and beasting myself because I enjoy it So you instead of feeling helpless and powerless you try to work out what is in your control What is in your power? What can you do? Yeah, you put yourself through that. Yeah to sort of prove this point and to drive this message home You must really surprise a lot of people out there on these races in these situations Yeah, I mean I think over the years what we started vegan runners back in 2004 purely because I was qualifying for elite starts in major world marathons and the equation was You're gonna go on to the start line and you're gonna line up next to the best marathon runners in the world Yeah as an emblem you're gonna have on your jersey people are gonna see it on the TV They're gonna see it around the world How about having the word vegan on you and we that's when we affiliated vegan runners 15 years ago purely for the Idea that running through the streets of London with a billboard promoting veganism You can like it you can hate it You can't ignore it cuz I'm there out the front of the race when people see you going on to these starts you are treated like Royalty, you know, you shipped in by boss people are wanting highly Gabri Sassi's Autograph and you're walking there next to them. I'm equal to these people 50,000 runners back there are on the master I'm up the front in the elite enclosure with the best in the world That's got to make some people you can't you can't ignore that fact And that's that's basically why we started everything. I've done has just been in some way subversive way creative way To promote what I believe because it's not been that easy You know people have not wanted very hard to promote a message that people do not want to hear They didn't want to know about it and especially in the days before social media I mean you have to be how can I do this? What I do does shake the mainstream media weren't gonna help you in any way And I kind of when I realized the kind of time you got a dedicate to being good I kind of thought is it worse it cuz it's hard. It's really hard. I mean, you know I mean my sister had a child and I've got a niece I couldn't go to the christening because I was training, you know, I can't you you know I mean three weeks running up to a marathon when you've trained and you're tapering Martin used to come home from work and let me know when it was 10 minutes away And I'd go and live in a caravan because I was worried about him of contact and something at work like a cold or a cough Wow, and then give me that so I never saw him for three weeks before a race because I Quarantine yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because when you think about it You can be as fit and conditioned as you like if you got cold, you're not gonna run, right? You're not gonna want run at all and You'd you set in your store five months of your life previous to that race You've just honed on one Sunday morning in the autumn and the spring when you're gonna go and deliver 100% of what you've got in the tank every ounce of everything you're gonna leave on that road Yeah, and you're gonna hopefully come away with the best result you can for the animals so that you could I mean, it wasn't a formulated plan. I didn't think you know, I I just kept doing it I mean, I thought right. Okay. I've come eight in the Amsterdam Marathon. That's a big race I was only beaten by Kenyans and Ethiopians Wow, you thinking what can I do next and I really Realized that over the years. I've been building this massive CV of things that I've done But it's purely been done for that one event now put it to bed and go off and do something else I've not really thought about in any of the terms than that That seemed like a natural progression for you and it seems like there's this fire that kept being stoked and like Yeah, and it doesn't seem like it's gone. It's still there still they're massively be there on Sunday because I'm off Marathon I've gone back to road running because it is kind of difficult for me to get away to do anything else but yeah, and I think it is an anger and I will say that Some of the results I was getting were big, you know Like I was coming in comparable places in in the big races like London and Amsterdam or wherever There are best runners like Joe Pavey were getting and I was kind of thinking Surely this is newsworthy. Have you got you're like this disabled amateur runner? And nobody's interested and I realized that it was kind of the veganism was preventing people from being interested like a Veganophobia with the press. Yeah, they won't mention the fact that you're vegan if they even smell that you have an agenda They yeah, away. Yeah, they do. Yeah, they really really do and I'm thinking Well, perhaps I'm not good enough right then. I'll just go and do a better result Win a marathon, what have I got to do? And that's when after I've done like Loads of quick times and loads of wins. What have I got to do when somebody then said do the toughest foot race on the planet? Do Marathon the star? Well, that's got to prove the point. Yeah, so you think okay. I can do that I'll go from in the desert and I'll do that and You know same as when I did the North Pole Marathon can't be a marathon at the North Pole Geez, that's got to prove my point, hasn't it when people are tired They say oh, I feel like I've run a marathon or if they're cold They say like North Pole out there put the two together put a marathon Put a vegan woman out there doing it put a vegan woman out there winning it put a vegan woman out there being the fastest ever to Do anything like that. Yeah, the North Pole now Now wasn't this the last of the seven marathons that you did across the it was the first. Yeah, okay It was the first now you you finished this race and then like was it how many hours later to the next person? It was a lot of hours later that people were getting like hypothermia and having to stop and you're running through the Snow you were running through funny terrain. It was like on the Arctic Ocean. Yeah, you could hear the ocean underneath you It was parts of it would fairly deep snow Yeah, they would and I kept falling over and I didn't know I'd be able to do this kind of running custom money Money is not good. I keep dislocating it. So I kind of slippery. It is slippery And I just went out there in my old running shoes They didn't know what to expect which is probably just as well because if I had I'd have been like for each out and Yeah, I think that The guy that organized it wanted a woman to go out there and show that a woman could do it But he didn't want a woman to go out there and show a woman could do it better than anyone else What was your time? It was like four hours four hours something or other. Yeah, well take me that long And some people were taking like 12 hours and stuff just because of the terrain the cold cold It's terrain. I mean you were coming into it's nine laps and you were coming in and having to have your head gear cut off It was like I think about minus 40. Well, very very cold. So you you surprised people in that race, definitely Yeah, I mean, I'm very good at managing my pace I I the one thing I know about myself is I know very little and I realize that so I want to learn more Rather than being a clothes book thinking I know it all I know I know nothing Oh, and so for me I know what pace I can run comfortably and the key to running in those temperatures Don't slow down Just run at a pace that you can maintain for twenty six point two miles if you slow down you will get hypothermia in those conditions If you don't slow down you can keep the Everything keep it warm and you will be okay. The only thing is that I finished a lot quicker than the race organizers So obviously they couldn't stand at the finish line and wait for the runners to come through because it was too cold So I'm running up to the finish line and I'm getting Percy bear out and you know coming up to finish I'm thinking there's no one here Well, where's no one here? So I went into the warm tent and they're all having a cup of tea and the Russians that provide this warm kind of tent And I said I'm back and it was literally like I'm back darling. I've been shopping. Oh, you're back I thought you got another lap to do. No, I finished. Oh, right Could you go back out and run up to the finish again? So we can film it at that point I can feel the hypothermia setting because once you stop Yeah, you're not gonna get warm again in those conditions the tents that they give you to it's a bizarre experience Do you arrive at the North Pole? They land the plane they turn it around and they go back a plane cannot sit on ice out there It's gonna go through it You know, there's a very the landing process is the dangerous bit because you can get like a tsunami under the ice And it can just be down to thousand feet of art to go to so they sent the plane back for the other runners and they show you into these appallingly hot tents and it's like a sauna so you literally come from like 28 layers that you're wearing to literally stripping off and you got t-shirt on nothing else and The idea is that your body simply cannot warm up from those temperatures unless it is literally forced to warm up and it's hot and Yeah, it's it was just a bizarre experience, but once you do get cold that's game over You're not gonna warm up again because your joints as well and you got knee problems like that cold temp That's dangerous territory. Yeah, I mean I did at one point. I thought I got frostbite in my toe You told to let anybody know if they see any white spots. Yeah, tell someone you've got frostbite I did get a bit of frostbite on my nose, which does flare up occasionally, but Yeah, I mean it was a bizarre experience I I've never really thought that much about what I'm doing. So I just like throw myself into it and think right, okay I'm gonna kick ass for the animals. Well, that's it. So you didn't overthink it. No That helped yeah, it probably maybe people get inside their own head a bit. Yeah, I mean, you know At one point I did feel pretty Rubbishy when I was there to say the least and I looked up and there's no 24 hours It's just daylight all the time and I saw Fiona you're in first place in the North Pole, Morrison You're at the North Pole Get a grip and yeah, and yeah, I yeah, I was quite proud of what I did out there I kind of completely smashed everybody to pieces amazing that record does it still stand or yeah I mean they say that technically a no record at the North Pole can stand because it's Over the because it changes the course the course is never the same because obviously the North Pole changes and the course is only ever caught As near to the North Pole as the Russians can do it. It's actually a research base So they drop Russian soldiers in they set the base up and then you go as near to the geographic North Pole you can Afterwards if there is time if the weather closes in they call everybody after course and get you the hell out of there Because you're gonna get stranded as we did on Antarctica but You will ship to the actual North Pole I was lucky I went in a chopper to the North Pole the actual North Pole and when we were going on It's Rickety old chopper. I'm thinking well They've got petrol because I really don't want to get stuck here I really don't and they grab the old North Pole sign in New York that way and whatever and One of the guys the Russian guys kind of went like that to me And he said look down there and there was a polar bear coming out of an ice hole at the North Pole Wow, and he actually said I Think they're trying to tell us that within 20 years the polar ice cup will no longer be under ice It'll be underwater He said I think that's nearer to 10 years and that was 2013 Wow, you know, we've got a bit of a problem going on. Yeah, I never expected to see a polar But I just thought the whole of the Arctic would be thick ice. Yeah, not like that at all It's interesting because you're sort of running with the same principles that will help stop the ice caps from melting with global warming Yeah, I mean don't get me wrong I it wasn't a choice that I would think oh when I went when we came back from doing the North Pole Marathon The BBC rang you want you on the BBC. This is amazing what you've done out there and then they rang back I was sitting at my mom's cottage at the time and The research told me we don't want to mention the fact you're vegan on Program, and you know, I'm not Beyonce Knowles I can't just say oh I'm not coming there nor it's on my terms or you know my way of the highway So I kind of went and I was sitting there live on thinking what would we do what would we do? And I did mention the fact of do They said why did you do the North Pole Marathon and I think if I'd have kind of gone down the old Oh, I'm just an adrenaline junkie. I just had to do it There to be done and I didn't I did it to celebrate the diamond jubilee of the vegan society and vegan pravegan It was like go off, you know, I wouldn't have chosen to go to any of the locations I've gone to if I hadn't kind of been it was my only option To get the message out there. I'd done Tangerably great runs in my own country that should have been reported on for what they were. Yeah, but they weren't getting No, you tend to think right what do I have to do what do I have to do I have to do more I have to do more and it was the North Pole Marathon and what came after it that was kind of Okay, break a world record. I can't do it in my own country. I've got travel to do it But is the travel that I'm doing balanced off by the good I might do by doing this and somebody said, you know Some anti-vegan reporter about the travel element. I said I'm a vegan not her mate No, you know, you can't what do they want you to do just like go and live in a cave somewhere and keep your Veganism to yourself. I was only trying to tackle the good that you're doing outweighs any of the The negativity and you've offset any carbon footprint Yeah, I mean I run everywhere like I'm quite happy to I mean I used to work in London It was a 40 mile journey each way. I went on my bike, you know, please, you know But they've always got to have some ridiculous bizarre. Oh, but what about the insect you might have killed by? Oh, yeah, right go Yeah, but yeah, and after that the world records came So, um, yeah, and that was not an easy So just describe, um The major world record that we see in the film. It's like you you did seven marathons in seven continents Yeah, basically what it was when I came back from the north pole Few of the guys because I'm not into ultra running. I don't really know All I knew about running was a to b as fast as you can so you can get home and look after the animals Two marathons a year. I've got no coach. I've got no physio. I've got nothing just me running. That's all there is Some of the guys there were a little bit more into these and they said, you know, god, you're amazing at this You know, you should do this world record fastest woman to run a marathon on every continent in days So you just you're in the Antarctic race in November Just go to every continent and run a marathon and you'll have the world record And I thought wow, it's great. So wait, wait, this is a spare of the moment decision or was it? Yeah, I mean I at the time I thought it was great So I came home and then kind of look at the bank balance and think no, there's no way I want to do that Um, I put it on a back burner for quite a long time and then I thought no, I could get a world record to the animals that's gotta be worse going that extra mile for We've got no money all our money has always and to this day goes into the sanctuary for the animals But my parents had got their little cottage and uh, they said that they would Um remortgage it for me to do this if necessary Unfortunately, they didn't have time to remortgage it so, um Somebody stepped in and sponsored me. So I thought excellent. I can just go to Guinness and tell them that I'm doing this and you know, It'd be great. They'll validate it. Oh god. No, no, no, it wouldn't be that simple They said you need to take two runners with you And they need to run next to you for each race to make sure that it's you that's running because you could enter a race in Australia And it's not even got me used running it. How do we know it's to you that's done it? You know, yeah, and I'm thinking oh what am I gonna do? I can't do that Okay, the plan I came up with was go and win them all And then you then they know it's you So now I'm challenged with going to these every continent every other week or whatever and having to win these marathons or place in them at the very least To validate it and I remember it was really bizarre because I got off the plane in Adelaide And the guy came we were looking in the baggage or something like this and he said oh you're looking for your bags and I said I haven't got any Oh, right. Okay. You come off the flight there from Dubai. Yeah, just coming to run and go Yeah, he said basically he said to me you've basically come to Australia from the uk on a day trip I said, yeah, in essence, that's what I've done and I can say oh, I know what I look like here Drugs them a little bit. I said don't worry. I've got a good reason for being in. He said, what is it? I said I'm running in Marathon tomorrow It went you're crazy and it was that it was really difficult. I mean, I've got like I've been in Australia eight hours and I've got to get up and run this Marathon place in it Get back on the plane and come home and let him go to work And it was tough. It was really tough. We were there and back to Australia And I came third place in the Adelaide Marathon and I was gone less than 96 hours Wow And you know just showing the recovery rate of a v I never even got jet lag I never had jet lag. I've just like gone come back. Okay. I've done it next one, please And it was like just a cycle of these races Going down to Antarctica and do it did the same as I did in North Pole smashed it and won the race so you came back after the seven Races with the record I came back with three world records actually because actually it wasn't just the fastest in In time in days. I was the quickest runner to ever do it because I've got to run these races pretty quickly And so yeah, I came back with three world records. Wow. Yeah, the fastest to do it amazing Now I want to just keep on the the race topic. What is the what would you say? I mean, they're probably all hard in different ways, but for you. What was the most? challenging race you've been in um Running quick in a marathon is hard because you you literally you can't there's no stopping to adjust anything You've got to be in that zone For that amount of time So the fast ones have always been hard Marathon disable was hard the first time I did it because I had two fractured toes and that's that uh, that's the Race across the desert is builders the toughest foot race on the planet. So you've got a week in the Sahara desert You're carrying everything you need for that week sleeping bag food medication clothes anything you wanted self-supported totally There's no sanitation. There's no very limited water. No washing facilities. No nothing And every day you arrive home back at camp You've just got a place to put your your sleeping bag and you get up the next day and you do it again How long how long is this race? It's a week and the distance is 250 odd k They tend to run a similar format of There'll be 30 to 40 k each stage and then there'll be one double marathon or something like that or a bit more Very very hot though. I think the hottest we've ever had it out there was 55 degree heat You've got massive sand dunes. You've got climbs. You've got everything been thrown at you. It's really really brutal I mean, I've seen people like we come home and have to have skin grafts on their feet The skin's falling off. It's really really from the sand and the sun. Yeah, you get sanding your shoes Game over it really grazes your skin off, wouldn't it? Yeah, it just takes the skin off your feet um, I was going out there um ready to do it for the first time didn't know what to expect as normal and um Martin's gone to work and we've got an old horse at the sanctuary She she got cast she got stuck down in a box. She couldn't get up I'd got to get her up put the ropes around myself and dragged her to her feet But as she got up she stepped back and stepped on my foot So now I've got two fractured toes and I'm going to be the first woman to attempt vegan woman to attempt marathon disable And I've fractured my toes. What do I do? I thought it's going to be really hard to watch that plane go. I might be able to get around I didn't know how hard it was. I've never done it and um, so I went out there and by the long stage You could see the bone sticking out the little toe. You've got no medication. I've got nothing I've got I didn't show it the race doctors. I knew they'd pull me out So I just had to keep going and um, that was brutally difficult That was appallingly difficult I went through real hell out there doing that because it's difficult enough without a fractured toe But just that added something Because in a road marathon, if you understand me, you think you diet that you know where your feet are going to go But in these races, your feet are all like all over the place. So they're pulling at this toe all the time Soft sand, heat, wind, so sandstorms and oh sandstorms, tents blown away I mean one night the tent just blew down and after the burbers have tried to put it up for us about three times And then you just laid there under the tent thinking at least it's warm And the tents just collapsed on these bodies that are laying underneath it And it was like oh, what the hot air and how do you need double the amount of water running through these things? They don't give you very much water at all. You get uh, they limit your water to make it doubly hard If you need more water, you get extra points, you know like deductive time Yeah, and if you allow yourself to go dehydrated Uh, if you take ivy fluids, it's like a five hour Penalty they want you to be on the edge and they want you to learn to manage your water You're saying about the calories intake you're saying they They're only allowed 2,000 calories. No, they you can take as many as you like, but how can you carry them? Yeah If you start getting a bag and you think oh that doesn't weigh much and that doesn't weigh much But you start putting everything in this bag And you think jesus i can't get it down to under eight kilos And you put an eight kilo weight on your back and try to carry it up a sand you Or for a week a week You're in trouble now you really are so um 2000 calories is kind of one meal You know along these hydrated meals and a few bars and you've got nothing else um So you're literally losing weight. I mean probably about 10 kilos in a week you'll lose just lots of fluid and Yeah, and obviously Well, you're not taking in enough calories. No, you I mean, I know in Antarctica I was told that for that marathon or a day out in Antarctica, you'd need about 10 000 calories for the day Yeah, you really do need it in those conditions. So in the desert. Yeah, I mean you do need more but you just Funnily enough, you're not even thinking about food. You're just thinking I just don't I just can't be bothered I just don't want it. I just can't no. I'm just not hungry. I just don't want it Uh, the first time I did it. I was literally I couldn't keep anything down I was like painkillers And a few ball sweets. That's all I had the whole week, but I got through it I got through And uh, I was going to go back and do it again the next year and hit it hard without the broken toes And then the North Pole race came up. So I did that instead. Yeah, do you um after putting yourself through something like that? with minimal You know consumption of calories and in these Crazy conditions with all these elements and in so much pain Did it make you think of what the human body is actually capable of? Yeah, I mean, I think that the human but I think people actually probably About 10 percent of what the capable of is what they deliver. Wow And I'm all about getting the maximum out yourself and challenging yourself to learn more about yourself In those races you go to dark places. Yeah, it really you really do. Yeah. Yeah, you really do Everybody will tell you that it's hard for everybody and no matter how experienced the person is It's tough to be out in a desert. I mean in 2014. I went back to Marathon Disable I want I was in great shape to do well in it And indeed I was in like fifth place overall And one of the guys in my tent might Mike Julian. He had leukemia He shouldn't really have been out there trying but his battle was to prove that cancer doesn't need to define people And he'd got a lot of people watching him as I had in 212 when I was doing it. It's the first vegan woman And uh, he came back to the tent on day two In tears and said I can't do that. I can't go back out there. I just can't do it. It's too horrible And um, I stepped home Okay, uh, we've got a problem. We want this tent to finish. Yeah, we want this tent to finish ironically um In the tent were four guys that um You kind of these tents like berber tents and you go and you you literally walking around on the friday night You arrive in the desert saying is there any room in this tent for me? No, okay And you find a tent that's got a berth for one. I like to be in the edge of the tent Because I like to keep myself to myself And I saw this tent with one guy standing there look quite nice So I said is there any room in here? And he said that side's free and this half's taken. Okay. I'll settle down over there I didn't realize I thought I cracked it. I didn't realize that amongst their party was tom boridge the bbc news reporter And he was making a documentary about their race. I thought Oh, I'm correct down here. Um, so um By day two, Mike's really really struggling and I said look Mike if you can get through tomorrow Which is certainly okay And you still want to do the long stage which was a long one eight yard I'll do it with you and he said but you're in fifth place. I said, I know but I'll stay with you if no one else will And So anyway, I went tuddled off the next day it was brutal the next days I remember a lot of dunes and I got back to my camp and I was literally still riding very very high Went to bed cooked my meal And I heard some clapping at the finish like it was dark And it was Mike and he came over the finish line staggered over and said Does your offer stand for tomorrow because I want to give it a shot And he threw himself into my arms and I said, you know, of course it does I couldn't say oh, I've changed my mind. I'm doing really well I don't want to hit the long stage hard and for you, you know, it was compassion over competition I really wanted him to do to do it and um It was brutal out there. We were 20 odd embers out there with him. He was on chemotherapy It was having to remind him to take his chemotherapy is water. He was in a right state But we got through it together and um, actually it's probably one of the proudest things I've done with my running But ironic That the person that they said in the race are vegans only, you know, they care more about animals and people It was the vegan person that cared more about another person that they had chucked away my race for him in essence I went the next day and won the marison stage, but you know, I'd lost so much time Yeah, I couldn't make it better. It was completely worth it for you. Yeah, it was. Yeah Because I think that's where the misconception with veganism is it's you're in the animal camp You know in the human camp. Oh, no, we're in everybody's camp. Yeah, we are animals. Yeah, you know It's compassion for all not just for some Exactly and I guess like living here in the uk We don't see humans caged up being exploited and murdered by the million But we see animals being caged up and murdered by the million I mean so that that's going to take up the majority of our time But I'm sure if there were children being exploited and women being exploited and killed like right here on our door Stepline that are with animals would be you know More I agree. And but you know, we do see some terrible atrocities and it's it's it's really really I know when I went off to do one of my events I was doing a week I was gone for a week. Yeah, and the headline on the paper when I went out there Was a man It was Isis and they'd burned to a soldier alive in a cage. Yeah And I just thought I can't look at it I'll be glad to be in the desert and away from headlines and away from all this social meaning I've got phone or anything. It's very liberating And then I got back on the plane to come home And I think it was 200 not people beheaded on a beach in in I can't quite remember where and I just saw This really is happening in our world So we do in the west we know what's happening But I think there is a resistance to accept it because it's not directly affecting us as with The climate crisis and what's happening to the animals. It's not affecting me what's happening to them And we need to embrace the idea our actions are Exasperating this or making this happen. We need to take responsibility exactly and understand that We don't just act when it affects us We need to act before because when it does affect us it will be too late And I guess we are in a position of privilege all of us that have freedom here in this first world country And we can we have the freedom of movement and we can do what we want and you know And we should be sacrificing our time and freedom to help those who have theirs taken from them We have a freedom and a privilege a privilege. Yeah, I believe truly we have a duty A duty to others There are the most horrendous things happening around the world and I know it's controversial to say it And you guys are too young to remember this But it's like I've tried to analyse things but I haven't people have asked me questions. Why do you do this? Why do this? I've just been steaming on ahead. I've not thought I sit down and say I must do that next This has been like one long And I've had to actually check back when people have asked and why did I do that? Why did I do that? And in 1984 We had images in this country, certainly Broadcast to the mains from the mainstream live aid Bob Geldof and we saw suffering in Ethiopia, certainly that my family and I'd never seen the like of At that point From that point on we've had no excuse Things are happening around this planet and we have the opportunity and the power to make a difference We just don't do it because we think it's not happening to us And that's the same as with the animals in the cages. It's not us and we don't care We don't have that sense of urgency to look directly, you know, and that's why I think this environmental crisis Is you know, creating these massive marches because it's going to affect us directly And it's a it's a sad thing like we should exactly. It's a sad thing that A lot of the time, I mean, I've been I've been talking about the climate I've been talking about the way our actions Impact others for years and years and years. Nobody's bothered because it's not impacting them directly The urgency now with the climate is Because it's coming to our door. Yeah, we should feel ashamed. We should be overly Keen to act now because we should be thinking now But it's been at their door for years and we've done nothing Exactly, you know, um, and that's so bad and as I say 1984 for me pivotal as an adult If you weren't doing something after that Then you really need to take blame Yeah, you know, you really need to take on the mantle and really understand that this is partly due to you And you have a responsibility and a duty now to join in and embrace this Yeah, it's about being accountable and then, you know, like Part of my change was like I've done so much wrong in my past and now it's time to change and give it Give back, you know, um for you. You've always been a compassionate person. It must be a blessing and a curse Yeah, I mean, I think it is. I mean, I remember speaking to an activist many many years ago A guy called Keith man. Yeah, uh, very active activists back in the 90s and um The first time I met him, I'd got just got the sanctuary and He's been come out of prison And I said case. Do you ever wish you were like everyone else? He said almost every day I wish I could just turn away, but I can't I said that's exactly how I am. I can't ignore it I can't ignore because it's happening to them. It's happening to me. It's a reflection on me that My species is allowing it to happen to them. Therefore we it's imperative that we do something and for me It's just not an option to not act. It's not an option to not step in where you can It's it's just not an option to feign ignorance and sometimes I do wonder with people, you know We live in a very sophisticated society where people, you know, electronic banking they travel the world, you know To say that they don't know where me comes from or they didn't kind of click that there must be some suffering involved in mass producing animals in crates. They enjoy it. Do they enjoy living in a crate, you know Um, look at the standard you expect for yourself and you're and your animal your dog your companion And you're telling me that you think pigs enjoy living in crates and they're bred for it That's bizarre. They know I mean there's something that they intuitively know is wrong and even if they're not living in a crate There's a chopped up animal on your plate. Whether you think that a happy life or not They're chopped up on your plate now intuitively, you know something bad happened along the way Yeah, I mean even in a slaughterhouse. Can you imagine the fear? I don't know the desperation the smell They know what's happening and these animals don't necessarily communicate the way we do They're very very much emotion based and and they act they have heightened senses. So they know what's going on They really do know what's that's why they need to be prodded down the kill line. Yeah, of course They do high welfare animals or not. They're probably queuing up to be killed Queuing up to be killed desperately rising and trying to know a lot of animals actually break their own necks Trying to get away. They injure themselves horribly and what really shocks me is these Transporters now. There's been a spate of transporters that are turning over. We had one locally of 39 cows We shouldn't be moving animals on mass. We shouldn't be doing this You know, you think an animal isn't it's designed to live in a field or be in a herd not in a cattle truck Not three deep in a pig lorry not cratered up in a shit. Yeah, it's disgusting covered in their own feces You know, it's disgusting It's actually It's shame on humanity for allowing this to continue. We need to evolve beyond this Yeah, yeah, and I don't I honestly as you know much as I felt like being hating humanity I honestly don't think it's consistent with the values most people hold most people I don't have to argue with them about you know, do you do you support animal cruelty? Most people like no, of course I don't but I'm like I have to try to help them connect the dots between what they're reading And what they are actually supporting, you know, it's the brainwashing of the manufacturers and the people invested in making a lot of money from this marketing Humane and green pastures and even even things when you actually analyze it like a christmas card You see the victorian lady walking in with the turkey and every girl like all the film everything you see It's all this subliminal kind of it's okay Engaging it programming. It's normal. It's natural and it's really really hard for people Some people who probably you know got different kind of triggers or motors in the brain to break free from it and say no Actually, that is wrong. I can see that that's wrong Very often they just need to be have it explained to them and but I think deep down people do know What you've just said then triggered something a thought in my mind about something called the standard by effect. It's like A car accident might happen and there'll be like a group of people watching and no one will do anything They're all frozen but then when one person runs up to help then the next person runs up to help and then every I think that's what's happening with the after the stock home syndrome We're like they have an experiment where they probably have 19 people who are in it in on it and one person innocent standby or isn't and they'll ask a series of questions and it'll be like, you know You know, you know, what day is it today Tuesday Tuesday Tuesday? And you know, they'll all say the same thing and it'd be all correct and then they'll randomly after about the 10th question say What day is Christmas day and one I'll say 24th of December and it'll go along the land. The bloke is not in it Invariably they'll go with the crowd and say 24th of December because they don't want to be different. They don't they doubt they doubt themselves That's something I feel blessed. I've never had self-doubt and you don't have the fear of what other people think either Like like if you believe in your own principles, it doesn't matter what people think about you Yeah, that's that's the strength that a lot of people just don't have Yeah, I mean, it's like something you know, like if you talk about people who make a difference or like a game changer or something like that They don't stand by and do what they're told they do what is right despite what they are told in their heart And you know when you're doing something, you know, it's right and nothing nothing can wave you from your beliefs You know, people say, oh, you you're really lucky Yeah, I think I am lucky that I've known this from a very early age and haven't had to go through I don't I don't look look down on other people. You know, I'd one guy right to me is 84 years old He just lost his way to Alzheimer's and he's making this correlation between her disease And eating meat and he said you probably won't want speed to me and I'm probably your worst enemy And I'm saying no embrace it, you know, I mean I course I want to speak cause I want to help you I don't look down sanctum onus and say I went vegan when I was six and quite frankly if you didn't do that You're you're all you know deserve what you get. I feel blessed I was I was in a fortunate position to just see what others couldn't see at an earlier age Yeah, um, do you feel like even if you weren't brought up in a home, um, that you know, your mom was vegan No, mom's not your mom's not a vegan. No, no, but she is now but she wasn't she wasn't at the time None of my family. They're not even animal lovers, particularly my family are not really animal lovers She literally remembers things like she's been trolling back. Where did this come from where did this come? And she remembers like as a kid. I never had a dolly. I always had like Farm animals and she used to take me this is way before your time One big shop in a local city to buy toys, you know, if you got pocket money and it's always been I'm buying a cow little plastic cow Oh, well, why don't you have this? No, I want a cow and then I want some fencing It's always been and somebody actually went with two years old Sitting in my push chair said what do you want and I said I want a farm Wow And I just knew that a farm was where animals lived at that point I didn't know what happened to those animals But I knew that that was the place that animals lived and that's what I always wanted I always wanted to be around animals Not to the exclusion of being around humans, but I'm very comfortable around animals And you I mean everybody always laughs because if you go out there, you'll never hear me say to martin Oh, come on, darling, but the animals. It's very tactile. I can always say come bless, you know, and I'm very very I feel very comfortable in amongst animals. That's what I've always done You know, I'm constantly learning from them and you know, it's just great to watch them interact It's I just feel very fortunate and I've never once had any self doubt or unwavered in my beliefs I know I'm right. Yeah. I know I'm right. Um my conviction is then I'd rather die. Yeah and break it And I can feel that whenever you speak about this it comes across in your emotion and it's really powerful and It comes from another place. It really does. It's like and I guess people that don't Really have those principles in them. I don't think know if they really truly understand Like what we feel when we think of this What this means to us and what this means to um, you know The fight that we're sort of fighting and then how you can draw that that energy like, you know Most people feel like giving up but that's not even an option for someone like you No, I think the only thing you can do is I I probably was angry young vegan. Yeah Learning to and embrace that and kind of Kind of harness it. Yeah, so that you can chant What's the point of being angry impotent vegans sitting at home ranting on medications and not be go out and do something The way I've learned is I'm not saying that everybody should go and buy a pair of running shoes Get off to the north pole run and have an animal century It's learning to work with what you've got your form of activism This is just what I've done because it's what I've had available to me at the time You could be as active in your own profession or you could be a very good knitter or something and be active You know start a business being a business. It's not all about one way of doing it It's loads and loads of different ways of embracing it and kind of further in the movement, but for me Yeah, I mean it's it's I've just always been passionate about what what I've believed and I've just grabbed every opportunity that I can people say How do you get an animal sanctuary? I don't know Grab the opportunities. It's not like oh, that's leaflet number 32 how to get an animal sanctuary There's nothing like that. You've really got to want it if you want it You can make it happen. Yeah, whether it be an animal sanctuary or a Vegan restaurant if you want it and the things that you earn Honestly yourself like for me the world records You will get so much back from them because you've earned them. Yeah Yeah, and you you learn to appreciate them. So you found a channel Yeah, it's somewhere to channel me angry channel But you're channeling it in a positive way that's making it impact and making a difference positive peaceful proactive That's the way at getting people. It's not so much going and breaking the law and doing wrong things It's actually coming at them with factual information. You can't you look you may not like vegans You may not believe in it, but you cannot deny. I mean, I remember one year in the London Marathon Gordon Ramsey used to really fancy himself as a marathon runner And it was like I can't beat anybody. You know, it will beat this vegan woman Yeah, he wouldn't like that He actually you know, like you told Piers Morgan to f off He actually told me to f off when I beat it for 90 minutes That that race in London Marathon and it's that anger that makes you think nothing You're not going to get past me in any way shape or form I'm going to do this because I'm doing it for them. Yeah, and it's it's literally a way I don't want to just be a gnarled person That is hates everyone and everything and I think actually that's the most it disarms people When you're not like that. Yeah, it really disarms them. They don't know how to react and For me with veganism It's a really positive Positive way of looking at things because somebody wrote about some festival in Italy And they were serving a certain type of meat or sausage or something And then they defended people by serving chicken It was when you think about it as a vegan you could serve a meal That would not offend any religion and you could all sit down to the table together and enjoy In a peaceful way, and that's the beauty of it. It's compatible with all religions, isn't it? It's compatible with compassion. You know what I mean on any level and that's the most important thing So it it because it it doesn't hurt anyone. It doesn't hurt the animals it doesn't hurt. Yeah Yeah, it does and I think it makes you a happier person inside and another thing is also get on a bit Much older than you with the mental illness not just physical illness. It's mental illness today Yeah, I'm really balanced. I know where I'm going and I know where I've been and I know where I'm at And I know what I want to achieve. Yeah very focused I don't take any medications. Don't don't have anything I suppose the medication that I take is the doing good the achieving for the animals gives back Yeah, it gives back fulfillment. Yeah, and that's the point There's no there's no nothing you can have Materialistically that will give back that same fulfillment and it's this Constant height that you've been sold. But if you look like this and you have this you'll be happy happiness cannot be achieved And bought it comes from within And expands out. Yes Rather than being bought and coming in with it doesn't work like that. That's the most important message. I think, you know Just be happy in yourself and do what's right. Yeah Oh, you know, what's your diet for for running? I eat one meal a day only one meal a day and It's very often like Locally sourced veg. That's another thing that you know Veganism, you know, I do worry about the amount of products that I mean Brought it from around the world, you know, ethically not really ethically saying it's about eating local Eating fair trade if you can eating enough not eating too much because I do think there is a trend with vegan junk food That it's probably a bit out of hand. We don't want just a load of unhealthy vegans instead of a load of unhealthy carnivores Um, but for me, it's just realizing that we're blessed to have enough And we don't eat in the fear of shells coming overhead and a house getting bombed Learn to appreciate the things that we have because when they're gone, you'll damn well sure miss them You will miss them and it'll be too late then it's about being grateful for what we have and when when we're grateful We're less greedy and you know And it is it I mean obviously I've never lived in a war zone. I've never lived in these circumstances, but when funny thing is when For these extreme ultra races you get an eclectic mix of people For all sorts of reasons and you do get some bucket listers some wealthy people are on a bucket list And you'll you arrive at camp the first night you get these very posh voices saying oh my god It's disgusting. We can't live like this for a week by day two Oh, this is luxury and we haven't got to think about running for 12 hours It's amazing how perspective perspective in in a short piece space of time Because you appreciate you don't start thinking about what you have you look at what you've got and you're blessed for it So every when you come back you turn the tap on you're not looking at Perrier War it's war. I don't care. It doesn't need to be flavoured with oh, yeah, it's gold. That is gold You know like and you know, I've seen grown men trading paracetamols for toilet paper Really really kind of how much no I think it's worth more than two sheets I really do, you know, and it brings you back to a stark reality of what really is important Exactly. I served six months in prison when I was involved with gangs and things like that And you know people trading cigarettes and you know, you're real and when you come out of there you're like, wow Like I have my freedom. You know, it's really is about perspective and gratitude that you can be in a really crappy situation But if you change your perspective on it and go wow, it could be a lot worse That that crappy situation all of a sudden becomes a lot better Exactly, exactly. And that's what people I think need to learn to do because actually now they've got so much They don't know how to appreciate anything. No, no, and it's like Almost like we feel entitled to it. Like no, no, like of course I had this It's like I should have more and more and that's that's when people get depressed because there's always searching It's like it's like being in a marathon that's never ending. You think oh, I'm coming to the finish No, we actually moved it on a mile You know and it is almost put in the boundaries back so it's unattainability constant unattainability And I somebody said oh, Fiona, you never put anything on Instagram or whatever. I thought I don't really know how to work it You know and I said, okay, I'll put picture on Instagram. That's horrible picture. Yeah, but that's truthful I've just come back from training. You know, I mean, I don't come back. I never look very good But I don't come back looking like I've not done any training you come back and you've trained you look like that I'm afraid that's what it looks like and for me. I kind of said to the guy, but don't you think you're messing with People's minds To think that that's what you're going to look like after 10 800 meters. You don't look glamorous. You don't look Yeah, you that's what the reality of it is that's where the value of it is you've rogered yourself so much You look that bad. That's the effort you put in. That's the benefit you'll get out Yeah Because I think if I do put anything on it's going to be honest because I have a responsibility to those watching for this to be honest Because otherwise, it's just not fair It's taking advantage of people Exploiting people exploiting animals that animals are people, you know, it's all the same thing So because I was confused I went to this Conference things switch for good conference in in Hollywood And it sounds all very glamorous, but I was they'd paid expenses So I kind of did everything in one trip and um, I went to this Lecture on how to get good at social media not in half an hour. Thank you. I couldn't write with a button for I was saying well, yeah, but I don't understand how these people look so good when they've done Don't know they have Like stock photographs taken and released them over the month. I was like, oh that connects now But surely that's not fair on the people looking because then they're thinking that they should be like that And it's not achievable And they were kind of saying but that doesn't matter But it does matter because there's an individual behind that screen that it's affecting and it could be affecting them negatively And that's not fair. No It's interesting how deep your compassion actually is inside of you and how how far it extends you really Feel everything on every level. I mean, uh, social media is an interesting realm, isn't it? I mean because you weren't brought up with social media and you know, well mean either really like it's only Sort of the last 10 years it's really started to kick off social media But what do you what do you feel about social media in terms of its power to affect change? I think it's a great servant and a poor master It could be used for great good But I I do get concerned about The stories of the trolling and the negativity that come from it. That's a bad side of it But for change, um The mainstream media I believe is very I wouldn't say corrupt But it's very very steered in a certain direction. You won't influence that so if it can be used Properly and strategically. I think it's an amazing amazing weapon. Yeah For good. I really do. It's a shame it gets used so negatively as well and you do I mean my sister works at the um, an ambulance service And she recalls a story that um one ambulance driver knew The first three calls she got were to teenage suicides That's you know, I mean, I you know, literally I come from a an era where you were looking to get a walk on a Sunday And you're excited about Christmas and the present the idea of killing yourself. Let's put it like that would not have Ever entered the sort the fact that young people today are actually committing suicide with a whole life in front of them Yeah, because they're probably being bullied and I spoke to one police officer and he said, you know in our day Fiona If you were being bullied the bullets stopped at the school gates Now they're coming into the home via the social media science So it's great if it can be used in a negative in a positive form But negatively it's it's kind of a bad thing but to affect change I think it's a massive tool and I think people who know how to use it like yourself make immense change to people Really do push the buttons for change positive change and sustainable change Well, now you've got this film like this film can reach people with your story Like but if we didn't have the the power to spread this film across Your story would only have fallen on the eyes and ears of those who would met you in real life or seen you at a race But now you can literally meet reach millions of people with your story that can inspire them You know deeply like a movie like that could change someone's whole life I mean the movie is very inspiring Just I felt you know, it was I watched it after my marathon And I just felt like really soft. I was like, look at her. Look what she's doing Look what she's achieving and it just put me in perspective. I was like I could have pushed harder And I saw a knee she's got no kneecap. She's running up a sand dune I'm winching around the track. I've got him Max has got my water and my you know my bars and he's running it out to me And I was like, wow, so it puts things in perspective and it really um, it really motivated me I was like, what am I gonna do next now? You know, yeah, you're getting on that ladder of I can see what's coming here You know, I started I just never heard of like off-road marathons and ultras No, I just thought a to be as quick as you can twice a year. That's enough for me And then all of a sudden you think actually, you know, I could do a bit more I could I could and it's all and it's kind of a drug in terms of the fact that you see It been effective for the animals and you see people You know thinking crikey that person can do that and they're they're vegan They've been vegan all their life and then it kind of right. I want to put the bar higher I want to put the bar higher. I want to test myself and I want to test myself Because I live a very challenging life at the sanctuary. I get up at half past three That's the only way you can do this people people say how on earth do you do all this? You discipline yourself you get up at half past three and you start your work You don't stop till the work's finished you eat one meal a day and you get out there and do it My my running time is like people talk about rest and recovery I at best I might kind of do the bread unwrapping to rest when I've finished a run I liked really in the front door in the running stuff out the back door in the wellingtons So I like to use the the tough events that I do to make myself tougher in civilian life So I can do more Wow when I get back So and what about mental toughness that might you that might still extend out to Your work as well like the mental toughness in a marathon like breaking pain barriers and yeah I mean it's very I mean I do this 365 days a year getting up when you feel ill in the cold and freezing rain When you're doing this every day every day with the same worries that you've got You know, obviously financial worries keeping the animals are the animals well, you know, it's it's tough But mentally I have no talent for running. You're you if you set about running You will I can tell you now you'll achieve more than I ever have. I've got no talent and disability But I'm tough. You won't break me ever. You won't break me I am absolutely 100 for them and I've often thought that people I've always think there's a payoff with me. There isn't It's my way for them or the highway you won't there's nothing you've got That I want no more than doing right for them. Absolutely. I know you will not break. That's what um Steve Diedrich From the marathon disabled said if you turn up at start line on one of the racers tough rate I know you'll finish because you're not I'll die trying. I mean, I'm quite happy to push myself over that limit It's gonna happen because I am gonna get there for the animals Because it's it's there They're my price. So as much as people value Put themselves on a pedestal or they they you know having a flash car Doing good for them. It's all I'm concerned about and beyond that. There's no Fiona. Wow That's the edge you have It seems to me like what do you say to those people who I guess there's a lot of doubt that's been Injected into the movement about health. There's a lot of fear Mungering to do with health. There's a lot of people that are sort of Becoming ex-vegans because of the fear for their health and they might not feel the best and You are doing these massive days at work looking caring for all of these animals and training and running these superhuman events And you're recovering fine. You're eating one meal a day. What do you what do you what goes through your head? When you see someone like well, they they go ex-vegan because of some health Problem or what do you think's happening there? I think the only thing wrong with the health is their mental stability to be honest with you any diet If you want to look at just the food intake can be poorly managed or well managed a balanced Vegan diet can sustain anything. That's it's ridiculous to think otherwise Um, I'm not sure what the motives are behind people. I would say that they're obviously Mismanaging their diet horribly for what they're doing Um, I mean people go on and on about protein. I don't see they know how many how much protein there is in oats That's something like very very basic. Yeah Um, I think people over assess diets and they kind of almost imagine problems You know, it's like the person that you offer a piece of cake to it's vegan. You're kind of going like this Oh, oh, you know, is it is it you think it's just not got An egg or milk some horrendous Yeah, you know what what you kind of playing away from it, but so the the barriers there They start with that barrier and kind of build on it. Yeah, and uh for me, it's just lunacy I mean, I don't I don't actually take any supplements. Well, I have supplement I mean, I do I'm a bit of a Vegemite fan with the um for the b12 In fact, I went to a doctors conference and I spoke for half an hour And I said, I don't take vitamin D and I don't take b12 And then one of the doctors said well, you're dirty and you grew up about outside all day So you probably don't need it. You're getting it naturally That's okay. I don't mind that That's what made me very miserable about not getting my message out there I didn't intend when I was six years old to be thinking I need to have done this, but at 53 I'm still Winning over people straight out wins in races Running faster than most people can imagine as well as tackling this lot And I'm going at it like um, I mean Keegan came to do the film He said it was suicidal what I'd do every day and I'm energized and ensues both mentally and physically to do it What more do you need to say? I mean, it's ridiculous to think that you can't sustain this on and I think sometimes I've been kind of ignored because I've been the kind of living proof that it's wrong. Obviously if you manage to diet I want to say well managed out. I've not got nutrition lists. It's just obvious. Um, Listen to your brain. I mean, I don't have a garment. I have an old timex watch And um, I'll kind of work backwards. How long what pace I'm running. That's kind of Oh, you don't have any of the gadgets No, because the gadgets don't know if you've got a cold coming on if you've had a stressful day if you're tired In here, you've got a Computer about your person that's far more sophisticated than anything man could ever develop learn to use it And your body will tell you if you if you're getting, you know, if you're not getting the right victim Learn to listen to it learn to assess what's going on and address it And that's funny. I sometimes think that a lot of people who just One minute they're vegan next minute. They're not vegan are looking for like, I don't know Attention, you know, I mean I just don't see I don't see what's difficult. I really don't see what's difficult I mean, you know A lot of people say to me look at the size of your upper body. I don't do you do weights Sometimes I've been a bit embarrassed and said Yes, yes, I do weight something and no, I'm just big You know, I don't shovel in I shovel all day, you know, and I'm strong And I'm vegan and I've been vegan 47 years and I've grown up vegan. So, you know Check that mist that you know, oh, you know what you're gonna be like long-term vegans After a certain amount of time. Yeah, your deterioration is going to set in Yeah, and I'm still there. I'm still waiting. Yeah, I'm going off marathon to shovel again next year. I don't know what you're doing You know, but I mean, you know, it's so it won't you know And I think the energy levels that I've got and the clarity of thought that I have I see everything black and white Yeah, because it is black and white the world is black and white and to me That's wrong. This is right. Yeah, end of my mission is to to show all the people And culture is crap basically that and and you know, but it's a hard job Because this is a message that has been sold to people over many many years decades and decades and decades And to get people to believe in something that I'm not 100 convinced They're fully invested in yeah, it's difficult And as as he said with the climate crisis It's ironic that the one thing that's made people wake up is not the animals is not their own hells It's fear of it coming to their door and their lifestyle now they're starting to make a move Yeah, because it's lifestyle, you know, it's it's you know And but to me the easiest thing you can do is go vegan. Yeah It's not the only thing you should do. I know they talk about Recycling is great But to me it's using less. Yeah That's probably a hard message to sell. You can't just think Oh, I can have what I want and put it in that bag and it'll go away and I can keep having You've got to start addressing the way you live and thinking I don't need that. I don't need that So I think that veganism would bias that time that we need to implement changes for the future generations That would probably make a difference, but I actually do think that if we don't I think people should be Grabbing veganism now. I think yeah, of course we want to do that, but we want to do more Rather than resisting it. No, you need you need to go a little bit less meat on a Tuesday because of the you know The vegan needs to be the first step because if you start addressing I'm recycling, but I'm eating 10 steaks a week Yeah, sort the steak out first. Yeah. Yeah, then we do the yeah, and don't let that be the end Continue continuously make conscious decisions outside and I believe that if you do Go vegan the clarity of thought the way you start the compassion Comes into your life and then naturally you start to think about other things. It's like a ladder That's the first step and then you start saying. Okay. I feel better I want the world to feel better. I want other people on this planet to feel better It's the first step not the last step But yeah, yeah, it's it's a difficult one to make people You know take and unfortunately it is saddening that it's only with a climate changer that they are They are are considering it even now But you know, I I do fear for things like water wars and you know resource wars when you know Whole continents are wiped out and people start getting nasty over things like water and The things that we consider to be a right. There's no no rights on this third you earn Earn privilege earn rights and we're not we're just expecting them. It's like It's not the age of enlightenment now. It's the age of entitlement. Everybody thinks it's their right And when you think about like a month's worth of showers for one burger, yeah Wow, yeah, like you left the tap running for that long like, you know, but it's it's completely more Acceptable in society to eat a burger that takes that amount of resources just to sustain that amount How many calories in a bag? It's all right because I've got a hemp bag. I've got a recycled bag So it's okay. I can just live my life. No, no, no, it doesn't work like that Yeah, and it's not all these silly arguments, you know, like one it's it's it's ethically better to to eat meat because Only one life is killed in the production of eating meat. This is some ridiculous Yeah, rather than all the insects that are killed growing your vegetables and you feel like grabbing the person by the throat What do you think these animals live on? This is a big point. I want to make now. Now what they will say is okay So they don't eat grain fed animals. They eat grass fed beef, right? So grass fed obviously they this is what they think in their mind. They're just eating the grass. It's on the ground No, we've seen all this Big haystacks you have out here. This is what they're harvesting to feed these grass feed animals. So that's all cropped You know land use water use crop deaths to feed grass fed cattle to like there's no grass fed cattle Can be grass like pasture fed like they're not they put them in the barns and they're feeding them Of course they have in the winter what they live on you can't live on grass in the winter and grow You know what think about it. It can't happen. So they're harvesting grass to feed to these cattle. Absolutely. It's the same problem Hey, and you know free grain crops and yeah, so we've got it So and you know the resources that takes in terms of you know the vast machinery that goes out there and produces And the storage and the it's massive massive massive We just need to cut out that middle product. Yeah, which is the animals. You know, but what are we going to do Fiona? We won't see animals anymore. Well, where do you see them anyway? They're all in plumbing sheds and craze and whatever I mean, you're not exactly going to see them. You know, you know These animals are genetically modified and bred for your food for no, they're not natural animals They're not naturally. That's what people say. Oh veganism is not a natural diet. I was like, well, what cows are you eating? Yeah, they're naturally a caring cat. Yeah I mean, it's so ludicrous the arguments are just pure lunacy. But actually they're becoming a reality because The planet the environment cannot sustain no the greed of the first world It can't do that any longer. And you know, you've got I think there is a Statistic you need a planet three and a half times as big as the one we've got currently for everybody to have the same And it's like these people who look at the images of the third world. Oh, isn't it awful? Yeah, but they can't have what you've got for them to have better You've got to have less. You've got to really modify your way of living. We can't waver wand And make their life better. You've got to implement that change Individually and you've got to understand what you do individually will have an impact Even if the impact is so marginal in terms of the globe But it's an impact on you to want to do more and more and encourage others to do the same That's the impact. That's the buyback not going shopping to lakeside and coming down with a load of caribabs That's not the buyback. The buyback is actually making this world a better place for all And it all starts with such a simple change. I mean when you're in the supermarket, I mean like I was in Sainsbury's the other day and it's literally four footsteps from the dairy to the soya milk and there was like A 5p difference between the soya milk and the regular dairy and the amount of the the difference in water use land use and sentient beings life of suffering huge huge. Yeah, I mean people say oh Vegan diet is the diet of privilege Yeah, check this. My dad was on strike. There's no privilege going on there. You know and eating fresh eating Locally eating enough without out eating too much and also I always think that if you prepare food from scratch You respect it more. I prepared that. I don't want to waste it. I invest a time in that I'm not going to waste it You think a lot more about what you're eating when you've actually put the ingredients in Crikey didn't realize that much went in. You know a little bit like the difference between spending cash and a card When you want to say, oh, it's 40 pounds. You wave your little card over the machine 41. Oh god, that's four 10 pounds. That's quite a lot. You know, you start thinking a little bit more carefully also, I've got this idea that It's a lot more natural It's the kind of joining and coming together for families. You can prepare food. You can invest in it together You can sit down and enjoy it together It's I don't know. It's just the way People say, oh, but you know on the fast pace of life Fiona. Well, what they fast pace of like what they're doing Just creating more CO2 emissions going to more places that they don't need to go to and doing things that they don't need to do How about checking back and just enjoying what you've got? Yeah, rather than this fast pace of life doing unnecessary things and you know, okay It's supposed to be an expensive any diet can be as expensive or as inexpensive as you choose to make it So rice is the cheapest food per calorie on earth and it's vegan exactly Exactly rice potatoes all the things that you told about that basically what I live on beans chickpeas Fresh vegetables local, you know the basic stuff. It's not, you know, okay. If you're gonna live on fancy tubs of ice cream all the time But how about going back to a time when okay, I know you might argue that you know Some guy can go and fill his trolley if feed his family for whatever from Iceland, but how about going back It's not expensive if you only ate what you need. Yeah, rather bag of oats Yeah, I eat oats every day and then have a treat. What's wrong with having a treat a treat a treat occasionally down then But you don't have to you don't have to be completely just eat potatoes and vegetables I mean, you can have an ice cream here and now on the weekend, but like keeping your daily diet simple It's going to it's going to love you back too. I mean, I do care about my dad My father suffered and died from preventable illness and it was due to his lifestyle Predominantly and it's horrible seeing a family member suffer and die like that And I just let the doctors were giving him advice that they didn't know any better But they're giving advice that that caused more suffering to him and they're recommending bacon and butter and you know, all of these horrible foods like if It's just it's I care about human health as well. Even though my primary focus is the animals I don't want to see people suffer and die around me and you know I'm seeing people that are becoming prisoners inside their own body having complicated problems You know type 2 diabetes that they shouldn't have he's seen young children You know like obese and not able to enjoy the real pleasure of life like getting out there being in nature That's really really saddening. That really is saddening So yeah, I mean, I honestly believe without signing too hippie veganism is the lifestyle that gives back If you could got the eyes and the heart and the soul To see the gift in front of you, but not everybody has No, um, that's unfortunate, but um, as I say, um You know, you can only do your best. You can only do the best to promote what you believe in you can only do You can live by example That's all I've ever tried to live by example and let let my actions speak louder than my words You may not like it, but I've done it. You can't rub it out. I've done it. You can't you just get rid of me I've got all the wall records difficulties here. I've got all you can't say I haven't done it because I have and you can't say I haven't done it with compassion for the animals And you know Okay, I don't know much about training or running. I just know I run as hard as I can for the animals Um, but mentally sports about mental as well as physical and you know when you line up I've hurt nothing to be here. I haven't exploited that gives you a tremendous sense of achievement and positivity and that's what a lot of the vegan runner club we started that is Literally was the only vegan in the village and I was literally What's the point of being in the middle of the 50,000 runners at the Berlin Marathon? I want to be out the front with Haligabra so I see so people see that and see it for what it is the reality The only thing I can do I can't have an advert on the side of a boss That can be a positive active advert for the animals Now it's think it's the second biggest or biggest running club by membership in the UK All over the world and people go and they must take over start So the vegan runner presence is massive and it's to a captive audience of people who actually are interested in their diet And interested in ways of improving their sporting prowess So if you're out there going and beating them by two hours in a marathon Hey, I want to know more. Yeah, and that's what it's about but about being positive You know give them something that they want better performance or a better lifestyle and and say, you know, this is the way to it This is the key just unlock the door. Wow Amazing You're like the queen of no excuses now. You know Look like look most people couldn't handle just hand the the sanctuary alone And let alone the training for all the the athletic feats that you do and then doing it on a vegan diet as well A simple vegan diet is a simple woman, but super vegan woman amazing like Your story is amazing and inspiring It's really Snapping me into perspective and it's like wow. Well, like it's just it's like well, maybe I can do more You know, and you know, I'll try my best But am I do I can I dig a little deeper here? Like I always feel like What I'm doing isn't enough and like your story is really making me feel like you know I could actually do Even more and I think we all should hold each other Keep pushing keep pushing ourselves, you know and having that meant tough mindset You know and having the perspective of the suffering the animals are going through and it's worse for them Let's try to really push ourselves here and Let's uh, just Try to wrap this up But I want to know what's next for you. Do you have anything in your sort of eyesight for the future? I suppose just keep going doing what I'm doing as I say I'm qualified to run for England in the 10k Which is kind of dropping right back in distance from me But I thought I'd do that mixing it up Showing that you can continually keep surprising people by what you do To me now, obviously, it's the longevity side of it I can keep doing it over and over and year and year out Growing the sanctuary and securing the sanctuary securing the future of the sanctuary Getting out there and showing people I mean obviously You know youngsters can go I I want people to see what what you're going to be like in 50 years of the vegan This is what you're going to be like if you know it's so now think about your future It's not going to be detrimental. Just be positive any form of positivity is what I want to grow I never I've never formulated a plan if an opportunity comes along And I think it's going to be positive for the promotion of veganism. I'll do it. Otherwise I'll just keep doing what I'm doing here Rescuing as many animals that can promoting in a positive way what I believe in keep running and just keep Keep one step ahead of the game with regard to surprised people with the next thing I don't know. I'm back to do Marathon Disable next year. Hopefully I'm one of tipped runners So big result in that would be nice when I do it for me this time Wow, it seems like you follow your heart in this journey. You're really just yeah Yeah, there's no plan of it, you know, you can't plan you're in a war zone, you know You literally it's almost like gorilla warfare. What am I going to do next to shock and what am I going to do next to like, you know What you know, what what will be positive for the animals? What's the next thing? So I don't plan I just grab opportunities when you have your intention really fixed Always the same attention. I'll quickly look at something say will that benefit them? No move on So your values in your intention are always there and then you follow your heart and wherever that takes you Yeah, I mean the animals are like my soul. Yeah, there is no defining bit between me and my love for them I'd literally if I saw that laying down and dying in front of a bus now would be the key For humanity to to actually wake up that wouldn't be not it would be an obvious thing to do I've given everything I've got. I really have genuinely Given everything I've got and I think the only thing I want to do is keep being able to give everything I've got 100% until I drop down dead amazing Thank you so much You know, you're welcome I'm really moved by this whole podcast and coming to meet you and your movie was just fantastic And we should really get it out there to more people so more people know your story I've been vegan for five years. I've only just recently found out about you and then you know getting there's something Inspired me to run a man called David Goggins. I found him on the internet and then then I found your story And I was like wow and then it just really drove me to come down here and meet you and it's a real honor And what you do for the animals is just I cannot express my gratitude enough I've been in this fight for a while and I can feel you know, like Sometimes it does become overwhelming and you know seeing all the suffering but then stories like yours are just Just amazing and your life Will always be here in that that we can point back to you and go look well Look what Fiona didn't you know look at look what she achieved and no one can ever take that from you So, thank you. Thank you I Got my hair stand up on end about 40 times throughout that. Okay, so now tomorrow you're wrong Yeah