 And, of course, we've reached now the end of the show. I've still got a bit of tea left in my cup, so I think I'm going to enjoy that last bit with our esteemed guest, Said Ali and Nawab, who really appreciate your time. Salamu alaykum, Sayyidina. Salamu alaykum. How are you, Sayyidina? How are you? I'm good, thank you. So yeah, this is the first time that we're honored to have Sayyid Ali on the show. And there's Marine. For the remainder of the episode. So we very much look forward to, again, this last part of the show is to really wind down and look at different random miscellaneous topics within Islam that aren't really covered as much and to really get a jurisprudential view of this. Well, I think even in society, we have a lot, we obviously go and refer to our books. We have the rulings, but we don't really understand the concept and how to implement them into our daily life. So I think talking about certain issues, whether they were stigma, whether they were just clarity, it's good to have a knowledgeable Islamic perspective. What are we talking about today, Zahra? We are talking about quite a hot topic at the moment. And it's unfortunate it's mental health. So in the general society, a lot is being, you know, improvised and implemented into societies, say support and networks, et cetera. So really from a community perspective, Islamic perspective of what we can do, what perhaps are the rulings regarding somebody who's got a mental health condition. And I think it impacts just the person of the people around us. So we are a community, well, obviously, we have our centres, we have close family friends, and it's really to see how we can improve ourselves. So from really a perspective of Islamic ruling, what are the rulings related to mental health and sort of a patient that has this condition? Yeah. Well, first of all, I would like to thank you, Marfa Zain TV, for organising such a program and touching upon sensitive issues, which unfortunately nowadays, even in our centres and amongst the community members, not being discussed very much. Hence we find certain individuals who are hit with these problems, they're not experienced or they don't know how to deal or what to do with whether it was family members or friends within their boundaries. When it comes to individuals who suffer from, for example, autism or depression or any kind of mental health, Islam comes and looks at each case individually. As I said, as we were discussing this before with the producer before I came into the show, each case, for example, may be temporary or permanent. Some individuals are born with this condition or they get it early on into their life from a very young age. As we see in the news, in the medical reports, on TV, radio, in the newspapers, there are reports of children who get this very early in their life and they are suffering from it at very serious stages, like autism, that affects them in their education and their upbringing and their livelihood at home. So as I said, Islam comes and looks at each case individually. Now we want to concentrate on the period where the individual is expected to practice certain religious acts. Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala, out of His mercy and beneficence and that He is the Creator that created us. In the Hadith says that Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala is His rahmah and His mercy is stronger or closer to the sons of Adam than the mother who gave birth to that child. So Allah Ar-Rahman Ar-Rahamin, when He gave you that health, He expected you to, for example, pray five times a day. But there are times that you fall in. You catch a cold or a serious cough, that you fall in bed. Now does Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala or does Islam come and expect you to practice those acts that you were doing before you became ill? The same way in the same strength at the perfect timing as you fall in? No, there are many traditions and Ahadith by Ahlul Bayt A.S. That say that, for example, an angel came down, Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala advised or ordered one of the angels to go down and check out the condition of a mu'min. And the angel came down, noticed that this mu'min that they usually, in that part of the day, they see him standing in his mahrab praying to Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala. At that time, on that day, he wasn't there. So he went back to Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala and said, O Allah, we did not find that mu'min in his mahrab. What do we do? Do we still write the same thawab that we used to write for him every day? Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says, yes, the fact that I took away that help from him, which stopped him from practicing that prayer, I expect you to write the same thawab. So can I ask you that, that person, they're asking about the judgment, what should they write, the angels. But as human beings, we see somebody, they miss their prayer. So that's a test for that person. They're not well. Is it also a test for the people around them to not perhaps judge them to, we should have said, oh, look, he's missed his prayer. Are we supposed to show a certain etiquette to the person that's missed their prayer? Unfortunately, this is a misconception that the people around the individual, when they see him not getting up to a certain act, they start thinking negatively. And Islam comes and says, each person, they are responsible of their own acts of worship. And what is our responsibility for being alongside them or being around them is to advise them, to support them. Even for parents, it is said that if they have children at home, they should advise them and support them. For example, for Salat al-Subh or in the afternoon prayers, they should come and advise them and support them. And advise them that if you get up to this act, Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala will reward you, they should keep some reward. But no way, even normal situations, regardless of that person suffering from a mental or physical disorder, they should not be looked upon negatively. They should be supported very calmly, very nicely, in a nice way. If we come to a conclusion that this person, psychologically and physically, is not able to commit that act, we should just leave it there. The beautiful thing is that, as you mentioned in the beginning, is that in the community, these things are happening, naturally, it's happening around the world. Like you're saying autism, they're saying there's a link to childhood vaccinations, whether or not it is. These are issues that a lot of people, it doesn't happen to us, it may happen to someone we know. But the blessing and the positive aspect is that there is a community here to support people. And often in the wider society, people are very lonely and they often don't have that support. So we really do need to utilise that, don't we? So from a community perspective, how would you say we should be doing more, perhaps? Yes. You did such upon, for example, the centres being, or should be doing events to highlight these issues. In recent, near history, we see the younger generation. Because the elder generation, they're stuck to or they concentrate upon just organising normal traditional events and problems. But it comes down to the younger generation. Why? Because they grew up in these kind of environments. For example, if they go to school, if they go to colleges and universities, at the workplace, they discuss with their friends and colleagues these situations. So they are more aware, they follow the news, they read the newspapers, they are more aware of these situations. So we see them organising such events. They should be encouraged. We call upon all the community centres and all the mosques and the Islamic centres to organise more of these events. And we're not saying they should cancel out all the traditional lectures and sermons and eulogies. No, but at least once or twice a month. Because the community comes to this community centre because they are seeing that they are benefiting from this place. And unfortunately, there are community members who are still afraid or they are shy to come out and ask and speak about these situations. So it lies upon the community leaders and the community centres to organise and invite and specialists and doctors to actually discuss and put clues on how to combat these collaborations. And also, it could be that there could be a mother who's suffering with a child, a spouse. There's so many scenarios in family life that actually may be a sort of a centre having a support network and saying, you know, come in, drop in, have a cup of tea, come and talk about your problems. Often we could be isolated in the home looking after this child and, you know, say, oh, you know, whoever it is in the family. That, I mean, I've got a friend, her son's, you know, he went to law, studied law, graduated and then was diagnosed with schizophrenia at 22. And that's it, you know, he's now in his 30s and to see what she's gone through, but that support is not there because the understanding isn't there. So, you know, we can only say certain things as friends or, but it would be nice to have a sort of community term. Just further, you know, following on from the point that you mentioned as well, sometimes a bit there, the community members are a bit shy to speak up about these issues because they feel like, as you mentioned previously, like they're afflicted with this because of their lack of faith. Yeah. And because the elders who are uneducated in this situation, they feel like because the person is missing Salah or the person is, for example, committing acts just out of the norm. They feel like, oh, this is because he's not close to Allah, he's not close to the end of the date and therefore, when it comes to the community members, they don't want to highlight this issue because they feel like it's a, like they have, they're upbringing, lack of faith. No, no, it's the parents' upbringing which has caused them to be like that and therefore they don't speak about it. That's by the way, in situations where it's not an extreme. For example, we know if you go to the mosque and someone's sitting there, like, and you clearly see there's a mental health issue, but there are other ones where you mentioned there are small little signals. So is there anything within the books that can possibly list or do you know any that could list the list of, like, signals to indicate that, you know, there could be something wrong here mentally rather than it's a faith issue? Of course, Ahlu al-Bayt, al-Alihu wa-s-Salaam, in general, the books of Ahka'an which I advise the two viewers, brothers and sisters, to at least sit down every now and then and go through the Islamic books of jurisprudence because they can pick up certain points that will help them. And nowadays we see the books of Ahka'an is not just the opinion of the alim or the marjah. They tend to, as I know and have read, they tend to put in some ayat and rewayat to help the person understand why this alim or this scholar has decided that this should be in such a way. There are cases where Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta'ala, through the wise words of the Prophet, al-Alihu al-Bayt, al-Alihu wa-s-Salaam, has revealed to us that a person that starts feeling a bit tired, unwell, they should not force themselves to pray to Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta'ala or do that certain act the same way they were doing in a normal time, yeah. The rewayah from one of the imams, al-Alihu al-Salaam, is that if you see yourself emotionally, physically, spiritually down, just pray your prayer and go. Sometimes you pray your prayer, you do tasbihat of Fatima Tezahra, al-Alihu al-Salaam, you recite the dua, you recite Ziyarat Ashura, you recite another supplication from books of dua, and you sit down and speak to Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta'ala, but the day that you see your unwell or spiritually you're down, maybe something had happened that affected your level of spirituality, just leave it there, pray your prayers, maybe do tasbihat of Zahra, pray to Allah that He helps you in your day and then just go. But the day or the time that you feel no, I am able to do extra, then do it. Because if you do, if you're feeling down and you do certain acts and you pressure yourself, it's the Ruh, it's the spirit, it's the soul, it will feel tired. The spirit also, the soul also feels tired sometimes. So you should not force the soul upon certain acts. And Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta'ala, in another Rwaya, because we're discussing how people look down negatively on individuals who are suffering from certain illnesses, that the mu'min will come on the day of judgment and they will be given a certain high reward. And he or she will know that I have not committed any acts of good or good deeds in my lifetime for me to deserve this amount of thawab, of good deeds. They will tell that because you fell ill for a week or a month or a good part of your life, Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta'ala had decided that you deserve that deed. So that's mu'min there and then on the day of judgment would wish that, oh Allah, if I was ill from the beginning until the end of my life, for the thawab that they will get. So here, this is, if I can finish this, is that it's encouraging, we should encourage the speakers, the lecturers in the centers and the ulama. They should always encourage family members and community members to not look down upon certain individuals who go through a specifically health-wise health problem or a difficulty in their life. Because Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta'ala will reward them to an extent that they wish that they were in that problem for the rest of their life. It's very challenging. I was gonna just say sorry that I met a friend who has been ill for about three months and she was feeling so upset that she said, I pray that this is rewarding, Allah is removing the sins from me. It's very difficult when you're in a situation that you're feeling so down and unwell that it's something wrong with me. So that's a beautiful narration to end on actually. I think we're out of time. But thank you so much. It's really lovely to hear that. Really, really appreciate your time. This is first of many, hopefully. So I've got a couple more sips left on my tea. So hopefully that will bring our... Better top you up. Yeah, we need to top up for the next episode. But that brings us to a close. Thank you very much for the say it. Of course, myself and Zahra, appreciate your time as well, the dear viewers. And inshallah we'll see you in the next episode of Mouni Baraka. As-salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.