 Hi, welcome to the All Things LGBTQ Interview Show, where we interview LGBTQ guests who are making important contributions to our communities. All Things LGBTQ is taped at Orca Media in Montpelier, Vermont, which we recognize as being unceded indigenous land. Thanks for joining us and enjoy the show. Hi, everybody. I'm here with Cheryl Finfrock and Eva Weiss, who are luminaries in the artistic world. It is my honor to interview them because they have an exciting new project they're here to talk with you about, to talk with us about. But before we go into the formalities of their biographies, which are very illustrious, let me ask you, how long you've been friends and how you met? Who wants to take it? I'll take it. Okay. And so we started following each other on Facebook because we were mutual at Myers and each other's work. I'm going to guess that was 2022. That's my best guess. Does that sound about right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Our meeting ground, frankly, is virtual. I love Facebook. Yeah. But in the circle of my partner Lynn's New York friends, where, you know, that's the ultimate origination, would you? Yeah. So it's kind of like... Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Lynn Messenger and I go way, way back to the old wild days. I knew her from then. And so I guess that's how Cheryl and I became Facebook friends, you know, because we were connected in that way. And then as a result, we started liking each other's images and, you know, we connected through our artwork. So... The rest is history. Yeah. Yeah. I love Facebook. It's often maligned, but I think it's very useful. Oh, that kind of people together. Let me start with more formal introductions of each of you, if I may. Start with Eva, who has made a previous appearance on the show. So I have some inside information about her that we'll rehash here, but Eva grew up in Philadelphia and received her BFA from the Rochester Institute of Technology in 1971. So there's a Rochester connection on one side anyway. Yes. Her work has been exhibited and published internationally since 1972. She received a Creative Arts Program Services grant in 1976. Her creative collaboration with Split Rich's performance troupe, Peggy Shaw, Lois Weaver, dead margolan has been exhibited extensively in New York City, Amsterdam and London between 1984 and 2020. Eva's still life work has been featured in many editions of Bo Gattaglia from 1987 to 1991. And let's put in a plug for your old colleagues, Lois Weaver and Peggy Shaw have just been awarded an OB for Lifetime Achievement. Yes. Is that correct? That's a cause for a celebration right there. Yes, definitely. Eva has documented creative dance and performance artists since 1970. She's created a body of work that focuses on performance artists on the Lower East side of Manhattan. This work has appeared on four book covers, Butch Fem 1995, Intimate Acts 1997, and Must in 2008. The complete body of her work on Lois Weaver, including the back and front cover, will appear in the definitive book on the artist. Has that book come out yet? Yes, it has. I can't wait to read it. What's the title? It's actually been out for a while. It's called The Only Way Home Is Through the Show. I see that. And it includes images from 35 years of photographic collaboration with the performance artist, writer and director Lois Weaver. The Museum of the City of New York. This is very illustrious, Eva. The Museum of the City of New York featured four of Eva's images of wild performers at the exhibit, Gay Gotham 2017. And I was able to see those photographs and really pretty good. A series of your photographs of lesbian performers was included in the Julia Margaret Cameron exhibit in Barcelona in 2019. Recently rediscovered is a series of portraits made by Eva of Bill T. Jones and Ernie Zane shot in 1971. Two of these images are included in the documentary. You bring it, Bill T. Jones and D-Man in the Waters and that was a wonderful film. I have to confess Eva, you introduced me to them and I'm so much smarter for having had that interview with you. And it's really a great film. I recommend it to all audience members. Now Cheryl, Cheryl Finfrock is a native Texan from Dallas and a San Francisco transplant presently painting in Austin. You know, I was born in Houston, but we left when I was a baby. I was born in Herman Hospital, which is pretty big. But we digress. Cheryl has enjoyed traveling and exhibiting in New York City, the West Coast, and in several European cities, including Berlin, Paris, and Sofia, Trinity University graduate in both art and literature. She explores the figure with its awkwardness, anonymity and universality, creating a narrative steeped in the tradition of Texas storytelling. And I'd like to pause here and ask you to explain the tradition of Texas storytelling. Well, you know, it's that the story gets told. It's like kind of a more narrative and long-winded way of speaking. Just the idea of to speak is to tell a story that's always inside the mix of dialogue for better or worse. I think of Molly Ivins and Anne Richards and some of the wonderful women rock on tours from Texas. Do they partake in the Texas tradition of storytelling? I think they are the actual definition of it. So you say, I like the idea that stories told with the images can communicate silently, but not necessarily quietly. I love that. Thank you. I regard the picture playing as a stage, and those who occupy it as characters, a place, and person, very enlightening. So now that the audience has a clearer sense of the interviewees, let me ask you about the operation of community in your work. I mean, you're forming kind of a collaborative community with this exhibit. But how has community helped you develop as artists? Eva? Oh, that's a hard question for me. Well, I can answer those. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I think in the past, it inspired me more than it does now because I was so immersed in the performance community back in the 80s, and mostly with Wow, which is a lesbian performance group. And I was, you know, I just lived and breathed and did everything about with Wow. And that's how I created that body of work, and that was my community. And so since then, I haven't really had a community per se that I have been creating work from. I am still a portraitist, but I photograph all different types of portraits from different friends and people in my life. No specific community. It's just sometimes Wow people. I continued working with Split Bridges through the years. But women from Wow, it sort of dissipated after the 90s, I'd say. But I have a plan to go back to some of the Wow girls like today and who we are today. And that's something that I have in mind. So that's wonderful. Yeah. That's about all I can think of to say about that. A lot has been centered in New York City. Yeah. Well, you had the Rochester community. Yeah. So it's that community. That was a whole different thing. And that was in the 70s. So a lot of people haven't really seen much of that work, but that that was a whole different inspiration was like my whole group of people that I knew from school, from who I went to school with a very rich community, the people that I'm still very involved with and very attached to and like friends for life. And yeah, I did a whole a whole body of work the years that I lived in Rochester. That was very different than what I'm doing now is very romantic and Victorian. And yeah, I had a whole different look to it. Well, I often ask writers if they have writing groups and so forth. I think it might be tougher for photographers and painters. But let me ask, how does the sense of community operate in your work? Well, probably in a fairly literal way in that my studio is at Canopy Studios here in Austin and there are many artists there and we open up once a month, but I have done, you know, over time, I've now then had two person shows that, you know, have been created and so forth and worked with other artists in terms of getting ready for shows. I actually, as you ask this, one kind of major moment has been with a friend of mine that I've had since the 80s. We call him Snappy Tom here in Texas. So anyway, I've known him since the 80s, but he invited me to go to a cooperative gallery and show with him and almost in the Czech Republic in 2005. So that's that's quite. Yeah, that's kind of quite a it was quite a trip. You know, I would say more from a community is individual relationships and working with other artists and group shows and so forth. And where where I'm living and, you know, the opportunity like again here in Austin is like the studio tours. And when I was in San Francisco is very involved in the studio tours as well. So kind of that kind of thing. How long have you lived in Texas? I was born here. So let's see. I had 16 years in California. So all my life except for 16 years. So yeah, school, all of it. And that would be in San Antonio in at Trinity and then back and forth to Austin. This is my third time to live in Austin. What made you come back? Well, Lynn like had to sell her my partner in a seller place in New York because it needed to be owner occupied and we were living we lived in San Francisco. But that was we very early on in the relationship. Then we lived in Vallejo because that's only place you could get a house like for possible purchase, miracle and she wanted to do that. And the gay community was essentially buying up the Victorians in Vallejo. This population of 110,000 north and east of San Francisco. And I'm not really a small town person. So I yeah, when she had the opportunity to say, hey, I think, you know, maybe if we'd like to move, we can. I'm like, yeah. But so I know it's not really a small town person, either. Yeah. So Austin was on the it was a pretty obvious go to. Mm hmm. And you're making me laugh because you live in a small town. I know it. And so we travel frequently and I have small towns in the past and that's been my strategy. How did you have to start your artistic careers? I have to tell you, Eva, in her first interview, said that her mother influenced her. Oh, yeah, I remember. Yeah, that's good. Can you? That's so weird, Eva. Oh, you didn't know that? Cheryl, you didn't know that about me. Well, I was just actually I was interjecting and going my I would consider my mother my first teacher. My first. That's what I'm saying. Was your mother an Aquarius by chance? You have that too. I don't know. She was July 13th. She was not. But oh, but but we're Cheryl and I are both Capricorn. So that's another another commonality. We're so weird, both of us, you know, we're both like weirdo Capricorns, you know, so that's another thing. But we really are like, you know, sisters in that way. But what was the question? Your mother encouraged you. Oh, yeah, yeah. She was I was a graphic artist. I mean, I did paintings and, you know, drawings. And that's what I studied in high school. But I was just so interested in photography. My my mother was it was very interested in it when she was a girl. And she got me. I used to sit on the dining room floor and just rummage through all these pictures that she had printed herself like, you know, from an old camera that shot, you know, big negatives. And so she taught me how to print and things like that. And, you know, by the time I was ready to choose a college, I decided I wanted to go to photography school. And that's how I ended up in Rochester, because at that time, there were very few photography schools that centered on fine art and there was once that RIT was one of them. And she gave you your first Kodak, is that right? Yeah, they gave me a little point and shoot when I was 10 years old. And then when I went when way to school, they got me a single lens reflex and text. I was so excited. Remember, weren't there brownie cameras? Yeah, that's what I had. There we go. The old days. So, Cheryl, your mother. Yes. Well, go ahead. How did you have to start painting? Well, I mean, it's a it's an interesting story because I always, evidently, I always drew. I, you know, it was it was just there. But I thought I wanted to go into music. So I took guitar lessons and kind of went that route. And there wasn't like an amazing support for art in my school, which is terribly unfortunate because things could have taken a different path much quicker. But what my mom, when I was a little kid, when I was five, she was taking painting lessons and she produced like it was more of a she'll say it was more like, you know, it was a housewife learning to paint, to have something over the couch, that kind of thing. That's what she'll tell me. But I'm like, but you were good. You know, why didn't you keep? She's like, no, you do that. And so I actually, when I was in college, so I would say in adulthood, by the time, you know, essentially by the time I could drink, right? No, but actually that was at 18. So for other people, it's 21. But by the time I was 21, I was taking sculpture and had was welding. And, you know, I was taking painting as well. My mother gave me her old oil paints and that kind of thing. But more I know I digress. I digress tradition. But my kind of like second family, my best friend growing up, they kind of took me in because it's a conservative background that I'm from with the Baptist in Dallas, Texas. But the Zaners kind of saw that I could use a little guidance and they, you know, I call him Mr. Z. He was a philosophy professor at SMU, also did a whole lot of medical ethics in Vanderbilt, you know, after that just and they lived in New York as well. And, you know, he's taught all over the place. And Mrs. Z. June Zaner, she was an artist. So these were enormous influences and specifically a color June Zaner so I can sound more adult June. I'd never do that, not even to her face. I'm like, but anyway, she was like a really huge influence. And she said, hey, when you go to Trinity, you know, you need to study with Pella, but go take a sculpture class. I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. She's like, just do it, Gerald. Come on, come on. So eventually I got there. I'm like, OK, I'm going to go take that sculpture class. And that was that was it. That was it. I was like, let's OK, let's do it. So then the transition from sculpture to painting. How did that? Yeah, I was painting alongside. But I basically went in my early 20s, I graduated and, you know, you've got these big sculptures that nobody wants to live with. And you've got roommates and people who don't want to live with sculptures. So there were a lot of physical problems with all this. And eventually I kind of worked my way into the wall. I actually literally had welded sculptures and then I kind of make them more two dimensional. And then then I started doing these really kind of obsessive drawings that I would turn into paintings and cut them out of wood and so forth. And it just lended its way into painting. So, yeah, it was sculpture when I had access to welding tanks and then painting as we move forward. And plus the fact is I'm really in love with color. So it's it's a little tricky. It's not impossible with sculpture, but there's more focus for me and my path. There was more focus on color within painting. Having a flat surface lended itself more to color, in my case. I love the color in your work. Do you paint every day? And let me ask Eva, how often she works? It's more spontaneous with you, would you say, Eva? Oh, I don't work every day, no. What's that? I don't work every day, no. It's a different medium. Yeah. I, let's see. I watch a lot of movies. Movies inspire me. I, you know, like I I watch a lot of film noir and then when I'm ready to shoot something, I have that all running around in my head because that's those those visuals are what inspires me in my portrait work. And as much as I love black and white film, unlike Cheryl, I really love color and I love, you know, I mean, I try to get that film noir effect, but in color. And yeah, so I think my my portrait work has really taken on a whole different look in the past five years because it has been very subtle colors. When I was working analog, you know, and I printed everything in black and white and hand colored and, you know, it was it was a beautiful look and I did it for years and years, but now I'm working with digital and color photography and then I rework the images on the computer. So a lot of it is digital manipulation. And so it has it has a very richer, richer color, but it also has a subtlety to it. I don't know how to describe it. You know, the like the time boy picture, which you don't have for this talk, but it's inspired by like 1950s book covers, which are very illustrative. And the color scheme is taken from that. So, yeah, the point of all of this is that, no, I don't work every day. Unless I'm out like just sort of snapshooting with my iPhone, you know, and, you know, something catches my eye. But, yeah, it's a scheduled sitting down portrait session. Happens, you know, like once every four months or something. You know, it's not real frequent. But I would imagine that you have to have an eye for the photograph. And that's evident in some of the past of the pictures that we're going to look at today, you saw somebody and said, wait, we need a picture. So that, you know, that's a skill that one has to hone, I would imagine, if one were a photographer. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it's interesting, you know, because like the picture of one of the pictures that we're going to show for this talk shall be in her garden. I went to her house for another for an interview actually about wow. And she's such an interesting woman. And I said, OK, I'll do the interview, but you have to sit for me, you know, for a portrait. It was it was just a really good exchange, you know. And, you know, it just worked out beautifully. I love those portraits of her. So, Cheryl, do you work every day? Um, I have a set studio schedule because I also own a bookkeeping and consulting business that's the civilian job. So, yeah, so money in Tuesday, I'm in the studio once a through Friday. I've got to do the civilian job. And I'm also I describe it like this. I would say I try to the official practice in the studio is Monday and Tuesday. But I'm also trying to engage every every day. I mean, sometimes it's I I need to kind of kick start my sketching practice again. But I was doing that several times a week as well. So there's always something going on. And I'm going to regard the way that the looking because I mean, that is that is clearly a practice, just the way of looking. So I'm going to I'm going to expand your work schedule there, Eva, and say you are working, we're working every day. Yeah, I'm going to expand there. I like I like to think that my addiction to movies is, you know, of course, all part of my work process. It's all, you know, it's absolutely all of it is part of it. Yeah, I mean, like my sister would say, maybe you can deduct it from your taxes. There you go. Oh, you should. You should. I cannot do that. He's always. Change the season. Yeah. One more question before we go to the exhibit. How has the place you live in now influenced your work? Who's taking it? You've lived around different places. You take it. OK, I would say in terms of living here, well, for one thing, I would say the affordability of being having physical space, you know, as compared to living in a tighter city where the scale of affordability shifts tremendously. So just the the actual practicality of going, OK, there's a little bit more affordability here, so therefore I can get a studio, which is absolutely determined where I've lived in my life. So that's that's a whole lot of it. But yeah, I would say I bet that's a whole bunch of that out of gallery relationships here in terms of being able to kind of have a certain type of extroversion and speak with people within the culture that I, you know, I'm very familiar with and in terms of just kind of an extroverted kind of friendliness that one can get away with here. That's rather informal in the in Texas, I think that's that's reasonable. At least that's my observation. So let's formalize. So that allows me to kind of kickstart opportunity a little bit better or faster. Kind of community. Yeah, yeah, well, it's huge. It's driving so many people out of urban areas, you know, not that Austin isn't an urban area. I love Austin, by the way. Oh, well, it misses you then. So should we turn to the exhibit and let me tell our share with your epigraph for the exhibit is from Carol Young, which I've solved. Let me read it if I may. Synchronicity is the experience of two or more events that are casually unrelated or unlikely to occur by chance. Yet our experience does occurring together in a meaningful manner. So that's a very fitting description. You continue. This is a joint statement, I believe that you wrote. Finfrock and Weiss were happily surprised by the striking resemblances and specific images captured by Weiss's camera and depicted in Finfrock's paintings. With a closer examination, they realized that this was more than just a chance happening, the works of Diane Arbus, Mike Disfarmer and Alice Neal, all of whom have influenced Finfrock and Weiss, have permeated their artistic styles. The discovery revealed that the similarities between their works were not coincidental, but instead an intentional manifestation of the artist's shared influences and love of portraiture. This common ground in mind, the artist created the exhibit. Synchronicity. So when is this opening and where will it occur? It's at Lincoln Pen Gallery Saturday, the 24th of this month here, February, and it's from five to seven. And that's Lincoln Pen is at 2235 East 6th Street, Austin, Texas, 7802 is the zip code. Well, that's very digital. Thank you. How do people who don't live in Austin, how will they get a chance to look at the material besides on our show in our interviews? I would say there's going to be an opportunity that will have the later in March of doing a Zoom artist talk that is that the gallerists will have with us. So we're long distance, obviously, so there'll be some Zoom involved. And we'll have this out on social media. I'm sure we'll be taking a lot of photographs, you know, the nine of the opening and so forth. So. That's great. Basically, I'm sorry. Oh, what do you think, Eva? Does that sound good? Yes, it's great. We'll announce it on the show so the viewers can tune in. After the opening and, you know, the show has been up for a little while. I mean, I wanted to be like sort of a secret until it's opened, you know. Yes. And then we could start posting, you know, like images that are in the show and especially the images that sort of go together like we're going to talk about today. But I think, you know, we should wait until after it's the show is opened. So it's sort of a surprise to people who can go. All right, well, let's let's do that now. Let's look at the first set of images of Lois Rollers 2014 and later that morning, side by side. Can you tell us first how you happen to, well, Eva wrote me a note in which she said you just sort of discovered it by chance. Yeah, kind of kicked off your comparison. Cheryl did Cheryl sent we were we were communicating just sending images back and forth and Cheryl sent me a sketch of she was working on a painting. And she sent me a sketch of a painting she was going to work on. And it was a young woman with rollers in her hair. And I was like, oh, my God, that's like my lowest picture with with rollers. And I sent her not the the one that's on the flyer, but. The other iconic Lois Rollers. And so then she said, well, I was started my portrait from the Diane Arbus photograph of the trans woman with rollers in his his hair. Then later on, Cheryl finished the painting. And that's that's sort of how we discovered how our work was had the synchronicity. And then also the the picture of Shelby in the garden with her arms folded in front. And and. And Cheryl has a painting of a young boy with his arms folded in front. And there there's another set of images, too, of painting. And. Daniel and. Yeah. And his last thread. Yes, yes. Yes. And so well, let's go back. This Lois Rollers 2014 is kind of an elaboration or a later development of your earlier form that appears in another pairing. Yes. Right. Set of images. And if you wouldn't mind each of you telling us a little bit about how they originated and the commonalities between them, some of which are obvious. Yes. Well, Lois Rollers 2014. But. Yes, that was it was an answer to Lois Rollers 1984, which is sort of an iconic photograph of mine. And we did a show later called Desperate Archives. And split bridges wanted me to refotograph sort of imitate the images that I did back in the 80s. And so I refotographed Lois in 2014. And that's what this image is. And when Cheryl and I were sharing images, I saw a sketch of hers that was for this painting. And I was like, oh, my God, you know, it's so similar to my Lois and the Rollers. And I think it was a sketch that I saw. And then we we realized that the synchronicity of that. And then she finished the painting and it was just a marvelous thing of how our two images went together. And so this is the result of the pairing of those two images. And we ended up using it for our card for the synchronicity of the show. And Cheryl, do you have anything else to say? Yeah, I mean, it was it really was kind of amazing, having been influenced by having similar Lois, you know, Diane Arba's, for example. And having done like a sketch of this and then you've got this. You I mean, we're just like right there, hand in hand. And then I took my sketch and went ahead and made a painting and so forth. It was like, OK. Yeah, of course, I thought about it and we didn't know it. It's called Later That Morning and it's 12 12 acrylic on clay board. Right. All right. Should we go to the next? Yes. OK. Let me I'm taking this one down. Here we go. Now, this is very interesting. I think the title is really very striking. Of the assistant, his words fell off the paper in the coffee ground. And actually, this one is his last thread. This sorry. Oh, no worries. And Eva, what's the title of your painting of your photo? I never I never realized that that was the title of the painting. Cheryl, what is it? The last thread. His last thread. His last. Wow. That's amazing. I mean, you know, we didn't know each other at this time. This is on a signing off on this painting in twenty twenty one. We never met. You've been on Facebook and, you know, this does similarities in terms of just the feeling is like so straight up there. That's what that's my sense of it. Well, I mean, it's it's even more right now. I'm like sort of like my mind is blown because the title of your painting, because I've never shared this with you, Cheryl. But this is a portrait of my my very, very dearest friend, Danny Allen, who was an amazing artist and painter and one of my best friends back in Rochester. And we lost him to suicide. My God. Yeah. So your title of your painting. It's just like, oh, my God, the last thread. You know, I mean, he died, you know, within a month that I took this photograph of him. And he was probably on his last thread when I took it. Oh, so. That's amazing, Cheryl. Well, that's yeah, it's kind of spooky. You and me. It is, it is. I never shared that with you. I never, you know, I was going to at some point tell you that Danny killed himself, but I never did. I'm so sorry. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I think about him every day. He was an amazing person and. And this portrait is one of my favorite portraits that I ever did. Oh, I'm sorry, too. Beautiful piece heavily influenced by Arbus. I mean, you could you could. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Let's go to the next slide. OK. Now, this is the one with the coffee. Yes. My mistake fell off the paper. The coffee ground them clean. And Eva, what's the title of your photo? Shelby in the garden. Oh, right, right, right. I got a little mixed up with my titles. And the painting is 30 by 24 acrylic on clay board. Correct. How did you happen to paint and photograph this and discover their commonality? I think this might be one of the first ones that we noticed started having a discussion. Yeah, it was so the common ground is the gesture, the arms. And actually with my painting, I had to for the reference of the arms, I had to go do research to figure out this one pose and so forth. And it, yeah, so I was very much engaged with the gesture of the arms on my side with this particular painting. It's really skillful. How do you have to include the dog? I love P.J.'s with pets. Well, OK, this speaks to kind of high work sometimes. So I collect old photos like from flea markets, throw away anonymous type things. And there was this kid in a like a school photograph, probably from the thirties or something. It was like a brown and white kind of look. And he was really cocky kind of kid. He had his arms folded. He was a different looking person, but it was that gesture, the arms folded. So I took that influence, which I actually start a lot of times with Procreate, which is just an iPad sketch app. And I start morphing some things together. So I also used a study of abandoned houses, all that wallpaper. And that little jumper in the back in the table is is influenced by that. And I threw my photograph I'd taken for my dog and she used to go under the table when we first got her. And now I can see how much she's grown. She used to fit there, but I kind of morphed this narrative together. And then I use the Procreate as like just something to look at to remember what the idea was and then begin to actually draw and then paint, et cetera. And that's kind of the journey in terms of the line, in terms of the line to the painting of the work. So it kind of shifts the narrative and creates a completely different storyline than that one kid standing around in a school photo from the 30s. But that thing that was interesting, I think that we both, that Eva, especially, was like the arms. It's like seeing that gesture and it was I'm going to digress. OK, so I didn't know how to get this guy's arms in there right. I was struggling. I was having a hard time because I changed everything and had all kinds of problems. So I'm like, OK, arms. Yeah. And in the middle of the night, I remembered this one gesture on friends of Joey and how he was standing. And because I've watched the reruns too many times, I knew how to get back there and study that and see how this character folded his arms. God, that's just a selling point for friends or maybe really going to get in trouble here. I know the friends people are going to get me. No, I'm kidding. Anyway, so that that was the influence of trying to figure out that particular painting problem. Well, I think it's a clear example of an image communicating silently, but not necessarily quietly. Yeah. One time I was I was chatting with Cheryl and I was like just letting my imagination go crazy. And I was like, do you think that they know each other? Like around like these two people? Yeah. I see the way Shelby is. Her stance is very different than Cheryl's figure like his is very sort of defiant. And I see her as sort of like hugging herself. You know, like sort of maybe feeling a little uncomfortable that she's being photographed, you know, but then like just sort of getting into that self love position, like just kind of hugging herself and and just being very thoughtful and strong. It's a very it's like a very strong person. I feel like that's what she's emanating in that in that photograph. And that's to me what the arms are like just like holding herself and, you know, and sort of like self love. It's a great pairing because within the similarity, there is a little contrast. So it's like they're talking to each other. Yeah, that's what I said. Do you think that they know each other in this other dimension? I would say in the painting, this guy is more he's waiting. He's defended. He's protective. It's it's kind of got that feeling to it. And like you say, the idea of self love with a kind of self hug almost is really I mean, it's quite beautiful. It's quite beautiful. So so such a great photo. Thank you. I think Shelby will be very happy to hear what we've said about her photographs. Yeah, what was that? Do you know her? Can you report to her? Well, she'll see the interview. And then she'll be very happy. No, it was great. We got great. So on that note, I will give you back your screen. But, you know, that was really informative display. And I have two more closing questions. First of all, what are each of you? What are your current projects? Hmm. What am I working on? I've just been working on this show. OK. Yeah, that's it. It's it is kind of the work for this show. And now we're into that leg of past making the work to OK, getting the work and then hanging the work and doing that piece of it. Yeah. Yeah, I've been sort of at a standstill with with my work because I haven't had a printer. And I just got a new printer that I've been printing the whole show with. And so I'm getting into working on images that I just haven't worked on because I didn't have a printer. So that's what I'm working on right now is things that I have shot that I haven't had a chance to print. So that'll that'll be the next project. Well, what what a validatory remarks do you want to share with the audience? It's been a real pleasure talking to you. And as always, I've learned a lot about technology as well as in photography. I just have to say it's just been such a pleasure working with Cheryl. I just I enjoy her so much as a friend and as an artist. And, you know, this whole experience of having this show with her has just been very gratifying and, you know, I just we just discovered so much about each other as artists and I'm just very grateful that she reached out to me and organized this whole thing. So I just get a really good feeling about it. It's it's just been really wonderful. Thank you, Cheryl. My God, thank you. Thank you for willing to do this and come all the way out here. Look forward to meeting you actually in person. Yeah. I don't know if y'all can hear that lovely little beep in the background. When is cooking pizza and the little alarming thing? There's some ventilation that needs to happen. It's all completely chaotic here. This is wonderful. It's sort of an artistic predisposition. That's what's happening right now. Yes. Yes. So and my part, one of the things that's been super exciting for me, working with you, even besides our friendship and and the artistry and so forth is like this kind of this lovely affirmation of portraiture. Just like, oh, yeah, great. You know, to have this opportunity to work with somebody who's in it. Because it's, you know, it's sometimes for me as a painter, kind of tricky to figure out how much can I have that the portraiture occupy the picture plane and so forth. So it's it's a pleasure to go. Hey, guess what? This shows about that get feel free. So that's been very exciting for me. I love the idea of artists collaborating, women artists in particular. They definitely should come to see the show. Well, this has been lovely. Thank you both. Thank you, Anne. We really appreciate it. We learned a lot and it's expanded. My mind certainly and I'm sure it will expand the audience's minds as well. So, Eva Weiss and Cheryl Finfrock, Finfrock, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, Anne. Great to see you again. Thank you for joining us. And until next time, remember, resist.