 talked about the intersection of gender and race in all of the three presentations. And I'd like to sort of talk about ask a question which was asked by Dr. Kimberly Scott at the last session and we couldn't get to it. So I wanna start with that because there's a major nasum report that has come out and the question from Kimberly Scott was that it provides, it's a nasum report, it's about women of color and STEM. So it's very, very appropriate for what we're talking about. And it has a lot of information on social barriers for women of color and tech. That is an important part of the underrepresented groups which is the target for this workshop but women of color is a very important subgroup. And the question is how can more impactful leaders like ourselves, like yourselves use that report which just came out a month ago to continue this type of national level work on women of color and leadership in STEM. So I sent you that earlier but I would love for somebody and Dr. Malcolm maybe you want to start because you said you actually had some involvement in this work and so you might have a deep perspective on it also. Only at the end, I presented it where to the workshops but had the opportunity to monitor the review process. Let me give you a kind of a backwards way. I don't know, the 19, I mean the 2018 report on sexual harassment in STEM totally changed the conversation. It changed the conversations in the professional societies. We stood up a whole entity called the Society's Consortium that began to look at the issues. Well, it changed the conversations in a lot of the universities and they are working with the national academies in terms of trying to move that forward. Similarly, a report like the women of color in tech that report has the ability to have, I guess to make a phrase throw weight, essentially to be able to stimulate conversations that may be uncomfortable otherwise. Because in many cases it has been very difficult to talk about what is going on in industry and what is going on with women of color in industry. And but being able to bring a consensus report from the academy carries with it a lot more power because it's not just you talking. You are sharing the research that has been done that essentially says that this is not in our imagination. This is real and that it needs to be responded to by the relevant stakeholders. And I think that this notion of throw weight, essentially that it has the ability to prompt conversations, difficult conversations about the position of women of color within the industry and within institutions. I think that is a tremendous value of such reports. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Malcolm. Would you like to add something Dr. Cordova and Dr. Dupas on the intersectionality issue in particular? Yes, I would. You know, I'm listening to Malcolm Malcolm talk and had me reflecting. So I've been and Dr. Cordova mentioned about advance. I have led an advance program and I've also served in an advisory committee on another and evaluated my company has evaluated programs in advance. And one of the things, I mean, I'm not gonna refer direct to the report because I haven't gone through it. But what I can tell you from the work that we've done in terms of looking at campus-wide climate surveys in a variety of institutional settings is that the thing that is this heartening that I've seen is that the whole question of intersectionality, the challenges that a lot of women at that intersection face is not one would express based on gender, you know, from males but also from other women. And it could be those who are intersectional facing challenges from women who are not at that intersection and also sometimes some of them are partially there. And it's a difficult challenge because you see where different programs and formats have had significant impact. And I think advance has had tremendous impact in terms of bringing the whole idea in terms of gender equity into the conversation at many levels. I think overall though, where we have great challenges and significant challenges to success is at this state. And looking at especially women who are African-American, Hispanic and so forth because so much of what they face is in spaces that are not totally open for examination. I'm not sure what the solutions are but it's something that really hits me because of all the stuff I see across that probably and the post-doctoral issue, probably two of the greatest issues we have facing us in STEM. Dr. Cordova? Well, again, I'm not, I'm familiar with a lot of reports including the one that I surely talked about of the Academy, in fact, NSF funded that but not that one. I'll just say when I go to talk at university I usually ask to talk with since I'll be there with other special groups of students and all. And the thing that I've learned and that I share with them is that when all your peers step up to your concerns, then that's when you will make real progress. So for example, at Caltech a couple of years ago when I gave a talk and then I met with the students who had been most affected by a recent sexual harassment case. And they had all, it was the whole physics graduate student body, so there were a number of them. And so there were a lot of guys in the group who had been women that had been directly affected but all the guys felt really touched by too and they started speaking up and talking. And I said, this is what should happen that the white guys in your group are saying, no, this isn't gonna do. And they're standing up for you and they're engaged in this issue and they're taking it seriously and they wanna see that you are successful as a scientist. So that's kind of where I carry this argument to. I would like since I have the floor to say something about that sexual harassment report. You know, at the same time that the study was going on before the report was published, NSF was making its own changes and its codes of conduct and in its requirements for a grants to be maintained. And but I wanna say what provoked it. It wasn't an academy report. It was that thing that we all hate to pick up but do every day, which is the newspaper. And the media just had a lot of stories about horrible things that were happening to people. And we just got fed up, you know? We just, well, NSF was mentioned. So, you know, when you get fed up too if you were directly mentioned as helping for this kind of stuff to go on. And so I thought that was a real eye opener too because we can, you know the press has its attributes and its faults and they do carry some stories to an extreme. But in that case, it was really what we needed to wake up to what was going on. Stories that have been going on a long, long time of people not being treated appropriately. And anything that is done for any group of people no matter what section they come out of has a positive change for everybody. Yes. So. Thank you. Those are wonderful comments. And there's a question and probably we only have time for this one question before we take the break. It says it talks about how can we get people like white males, a majority who are attending an MSI for a semester or summer research of people who are in the workplace as majority students how can they be provided aha moments by the experiences that we have of the communities that are affected the underrepresented groups? How can we get them to understand that experience and those insights and what are we doing to educate them around that? So that's a question on the Q&A. So maybe we just get some comments on that and then we'll wrap up for the break. The break is here. So it's basically about the environment change even at the universities or anywhere at the lower levels that creates the local culture which our undergraduate students have to face. The underrepresented groups have to face. That's the question. What can be done? In working with faculty, especially faculty who are advising students and trying to figure out how they can invite students, I mean, mentor students from diverse populations. One of the things that I think happens is that the underrepresented minority student especially if they're in a PWI environment have a certain exposure, it's in your face in terms of what the other cultures are and you have to recognize it because that's what's surrounding you. I think what happens is that the incentive or the motivation for those in the majority to really become aware of the cultures and understand the kind of things that occur in terms of microaggressions. You know, there might not be meant to be that or the way stereotype threat impact performance. And you might think that the person is lesser than or not as capable or even for those sadly who are trying to help but essentially present the students as empty vessels rather than enhancing certain skills. It's sad, it happens, but one has to make an active purposeful activity out of understanding and sort of really getting into that culture and really understanding it. It doesn't mean you have to go to an MSI. It means that the conversations that you have with your students need to be different conversations rather than simply being pedestrian to their experiences. Okay, any other comments, Dr. Malcolm, because does sea change address the student population also, the majority of students? One of the things that what we're trying to do is to help people become more reflective about the environment they find themselves. I was glad that Fran said what she did. My entire identity is being a black woman in science is a large part of who I am, but it's not everything. And trying to find the kind of common space and common ground to have other conversations to try to break through so that people can know me as a more fulsome, a more complete person I think is absolutely crucial. But if somebody wants the difficult conversation, I'm willing to have it. And an honest outreach and honest conversation. But it is a lot better if we have that conversation once we have established common ground and areas of trust and commonality. And we can often find that within the science itself. And I do think that that's one of the advantages that sometimes that we're able to gain where we are going into and quote unquote integrating the space and that is it's good when it can happen. But the problem is that it can't just be our responsibility. Thank you. Dr. Cordova just a 30 second quick response before we have to go. I will never sell students short. I think all my experiences with students is that they get it and they're working on it. And what we wanna make sure is that they don't lose it later when they become faculty members or CEOs or whatever. But I really impressed with the generation of students now that they're really, really engaged in these kinds of issues. And you can give many examples of that. Well, so on that hopeful note, that's in the session. Thank you, Dr. DePaz. Thank you, Dr. Malcolm and thank you, Dr. Cordova. And I'll turn it over to Lydia now. Thank you all of you. That was a wonderful session. I would just add that the other thing that we could do is that more of us in the natural sciences need to understand more about the behavioral studies that are underway with our colleagues in the social sciences. And with that, I will say that we will reconvene at 345. Thank you.