 Are we recording? We are recording. Okay, we are back. Guess who's back? We're back. Drew here, thatanxietyguy.com. Join once again by my good friend, Mr. Billy Wez. Billy Cross. Yes. What's going on, Bill? I'm good, man. I'm good. It's good to be back. How long has it been? It's been over a year, I think. Long overdue. It's possible that the last time we did this was a year. It's possible. Yeah, yeah. Well, we did the 20 episodes in the 101 series and we've discussed, we've discussed bringing something else to the front. Tell the people what we're going to do, man. Tell the people what we're going to do today. Here's what we think we're going to do. Let me kiss these stupid glasses. I'm going to put them on and off because I can't read without them, but anyway. What we're going to do is we're going to continue the 101 series, but we're going to do How Do I? This will be our How Do I series. As opposed to just talking about concepts, which we talked a lot about in the last series, we will talk about the nuts and bolts of how to actually do things. How do I start driving? How do I learn to be home alone? How do I go back to work? How do I? We'll have a whole series of these. I think we want people to suggest topics as we go. This one, we're going to cover the How Do I Start Driving again. It's a common question, man. You see it pop up all the time. It is. So many people have, I had serious driving anxiety, so it's like a topic that's needed dear in my heart, but near and dear to my heart. You never had that problem though. Do you want me to go with my point that I've been thinking about? I think let's start with your unique view on this. It's a really strange one because I have had, I can picture three major panic attacks that I've had driving in the past. Coming up to a roundabout here in the UK, I was going on holiday, came up to a roundabout, full-blown panic, couldn't breathe. It was really sunny, and the heat in the car was just making me. So I took a detour, pulled over, just sat there, rode it out. There was nothing I could do. I was 100 miles from home. So I had that panic attack, and then I've had it in the past again. Why can I drive anywhere? That's my question to you. Why? I've had a panic attack in a supermarket freak me out. Don't want to go in a supermarket anymore. But I've had several driving. Like last night, I was sitting here, my daughter wanted to go to McDonald's, and I weren't feeling great. I had a headache, a fuzzy head, all the normal crap. But no hesitation to get in the car. In fact, the car has been like a save zone for you. Even though I've panicked in it. But the same as the house. My major panic attacks have always been either at home or in the car. But they're my fucking comfort zones. I'm swearing. I'm sorry. It's okay. It's all good here. This is not officially not a family friendly life. We've decided that. Yeah, yeah. So I've just decided that. Yeah, that's cool. Actually, that's true. You decided that. Very good. So that my friend is like the million dollar question. I do not have a good answer for that. And we're not really sure about that, to be honest. So strange. So like, you know, I think the other night when you were live streaming, and Josh was on, your son was on. And, you know, I think you mentioned something about that. I was sort of half listening at the time. And you said, you know, something about that you wanted to ask about that. How come see people have panic attacks, but never wind up? Oh, it's because he's had he's had a couple of times. Yeah, but no, no disorder. Actually here in the US right now, even as we speak. No, no, he's leaving tomorrow night. Oh, no, early hours of Monday. Okay, cool. But yeah, so how come he and there are literally millions and millions and millions of people in the world who have panic attacks and have had them, but it just doesn't develop into anything if they be there one off events. So what is the mechanism that made you have panic attacks in the car and you treat them as one off events? Yet the car is a safe note for you. I don't know. Just me comment in the description. I mean, comment in the description. I don't want to talk about comment. Comment below if you've had panic attacks doing certain things, but now you there's no, like attachment, no disorder relating to it. It's amazing. It is amazing because it goes it does run counter to like everything we know about how we develop phobias, but don't know. I think what all illustrates is I don't know. It's just don't know. And then officially don't know. I think it just illustrates the fact that, you know, as much as we do know about behavioral sciences and cognitive sciences and psychology and things like that. There's a lot we just don't know. We still don't know. Who knows why that is? I wish I could answer it. It's really, really weird. But I can't. So I'll have to move on since I have nothing constructive to add to it. Well, that's blowing it then. That is totally blown. That was such an anti-climactic start to this. We should have saved it to the end. We're gonna start to get stronger as we go. We're already like rock. So let's, let's talk about the process of like, and it's going to be so interesting because you never had this problem. We're talking about the process of getting back in the car. So I think I know I see people that talk about this all the time. It's one of the most common problems, I think, you know, a panic disorder sets in and agoraphobia starts to set in getting back in the car is like usually a huge obstacle for a lot of people. And and I think a lot of it for me, it was because that it was always that thing where I did, I did have a few panic attacks in the car and boom, it instantly turned into like, oh, I don't want to get back in the car again. And I think a lot of people feel the same. But generally speaking, if you've been in a situation where this stuff has got you to the point where you are not driving or like you're super reluctant to drive or you're white, not going your way through some rides and you don't want to do it or you can only do it with a safe person, you know, it all comes back to the same thing. And the same thing is like, you're just afraid of how you're going to feel like the car isn't the problem, right? It's it's how you're going to feel. So, you know, places that you are have been had a hard time going to, was it really walking to the, you know, the town center, past the tennis courts and over that bridge in the red coat, you know, it wasn't the bridge, right? No, no, it was nothing. It was in here. Right. So it's it's not the car that you're afraid of. It's not the highway you're afraid of. It's the way you feel when you're in it, or the way you think you're going to feel, usually bingo, that's exactly it. So it's the way you feel you're anticipating how you're going to feel. So and it manifests in a lot of different ways. So you were talking the other day about driving on the motorway when we were talking, you know, yeah, yeah, call it a highway or freeway, whatever. But some people I know have a heart that they can kind of manage. Some people can't get in the car at all. Some people go just about anywhere as long as they have someone with them. Some people can only do local roads right around their homes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Some people can do go pretty far, but never on the motorway or the freeway. So it comes in all different in forms, but it's always because, you know, either you're afraid of how you're going to feel in the car and you're anticipating how it's the escape thing, isn't it? You would think it's the escape, especially with the motorway, because once you're on a highway, a motorway, you've got to wait till the next junction again. So that's the solution. I could relate to that. Like in my very early days when I didn't even know what panic attacks were, my fear was like, well, what if I'm between exits on the Loyal and Expressway, you know, where what help is there? So I think we fall into two categories. One is you just don't want to feel that way, right? No matter what, help or otherwise. And the second thing is what if I need help? Yeah. And that's tough. And I've also seen a bunch of people and this might get me a little bit. It's not a sexist thing. It's just this. It's always women that say this. Women drivers. No, no, no. That was that guy said that. Not me. No, a lot of women usually comment that they're always what makes it worse is having their kids in the car. Because, you know, many times traditionally, whatever, maybe the women who are kind of ferrying the kids around and they're a little nervous about driving around with the kids in the car. They don't, either makes them more anxious or they don't want the kids to see them in a panic or they're afraid for the safety if they lose. Yeah, I was going to say, there's so many different aspects of it. It can be. Yeah. It's mad when you think about it. It's kind of crazy. So I think this is the way I think we should approach this. Like I could just talk for the next 15 minutes about how I get over it. But I think the better way to do it is how about we talk about how you got, pick something from way back when, like going to your local shop, I remember that. And how you how you rebuilt that because how you rebuilt walking to your local shop is exactly how you rebuild driving. Yeah, yeah. Well, it was just, it was a case of stepping out the door. I don't know whether I, I'm trying to think back because it was so many years ago. Yeah, did the first time that I ever tried to do it. Did I make it all the way to the shop? And I'm pretty sure that I did. I'm pretty sure that I don't remember if you did or you didn't because there was a bunch of things that the post box, the local, the post box was a bigger one. Was the post box was a bigger one. We can use that. That's fine. But I, but I really broke it down into like the, because the post box was literally 200 yards down the road. Yeah. I was so determined to do it and I didn't care if it was going to take me all day. But I remember the first time I ever tried it, I did make it to the post box, but it weren't without like fear and the sensations and stuff, the dizziness. And it was worse on the way back. But I think that was because I'd reached the point and now it was like, gotta rush, gotta fly home. Yeah. I'd reached the goal. Rush home. Yeah. It was just like, and that breaking it down into such small steps. But I think I'd already been out. I'd already been out like before that. It wasn't that I was fully housebound at that time. Right. This was just another step that I needed to take because like driving, I've never had a problem with driving. It's the weirdest thing. So I would drive anywhere. Yeah. But the thing for me was being a way like walking distances from the car. Yep. That was the crazy thing for me. Well, I think so we can relate that back. So for you, it was no problem getting in the car and driving wherever I did. I watched you drive very long distances. It didn't matter. But if you had to get out of the car, that was a problem. But that's exactly the same thing as if you're having problem driving. You don't want to get in the car and drive away. You don't want to go into a place where you think you're going to be, you know, uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. Away away from whatever help or see the safety. Right. Exactly. So the way reason why I asked Bill asked you about, you know, walking to the post box and all that stuff is because it's exactly in all of these, how do I, we're going to have the same themes? Yeah, we're always going to come back to the answer is always pretty much the same. How do I start driving again is exactly the same as how do I go for a walk around my neighborhood mailbox or whatever. So I think you start, it doesn't matter what your particular thing is. So if you're watching us talk about this and you want to comment, which is always awesome. By the way, we're going to put this video everywhere. It'll be on YouTube, Facebook will be everywhere. We're going to put it on your YouTube because we're going to get into 1000 subscribers if it's the last thing we freaking do. Yeah, I know. I never ask. So it's like nine something as of today. So close. So close to magic 1000. Whatever. I appreciate it. So we'll put it on my YouTube channel. We'll put it on Facebook, put it everywhere. So if you're commenting and you're watching commenting, you've been waiting for this topic. And the question you want to ask is, but what do I do because I feel this in the car, that in the car, your specific driving thing? The answer is doesn't matter. Like it almost doesn't matter why you're not getting in the car. Yeah, it doesn't matter. The answer is always the same. So how do you start driving again? Slowly like you just I could tell you that I had to literally get to the point where the first thing I had to rebuild when it was when I was getting okay with being back in the car again was just the idea of getting myself ready and walking out the door onto the driveway, getting in the car, starting it and driving away. Like that just the first 20 feet out of my driveway mattered, which I think you could probably relate to. It's almost the same that same part of getting getting out of the car and walking over the bridge at the town center or walking to the postbox. The first thing is the first thing you got to build. Like you have to be able to get prepared and walk out the door, get in the car and start moving. That's it. Yeah, because people are going to be at different stages. So the thing that I always think of with you is putting your shoes on, tying them up and being prepared to go and do it. That's exactly right. But there's people out there that can do that already and they can walk to the end of their drive. So they know where they need to go to start this process. So that's right. That's right. So I think if you're starting from like you are terrified to get in the car under any circumstances and you're not doing it or you're barely doing it or you're just like running to the supermarket and running home because you don't want to do it. You start with the preparation and yes, that Billy is exactly right. I remember getting up in the morning, first thing, just okay, just got to put my shoes on. I just got to do this. I did that slowly and deliberately getting myself ready, you know, without speeding up and rushing to get out the door, get in the car, start the car, drive away. What happened after that was almost irrelevant at first. Yeah, just getting comfortable with the idea of knowing that I was going to get in the car and drive by myself, getting in the car, starting it, driving away. So if that's where you are, you have to start there. Like you literally have to just practice that as often as you can, get yourself prepared, get yourself in the car, start it, drive away. I don't care if you drive to the end of your street, turn around and come home, go back in and take your coat off and then do it again and again and again and again until like, for me, I felt like I had to start from a place where like, if I start every single drive at like level eight panic, that's, that's, I'm doomed. So I got it to the point where just getting in the car and driving was, was nothing then. It was like, that I can easily do. But now what happens? That's what I said with mine. So I did it till I got bored. Yes, did the post box war until it was just, it was just nothing anymore. And then you can build on that. So, you know, if you're, if you're okay getting in the car, but your problem is driving on the highway or, you know, the motorway or driving inside, somebody in the group mentioned their problems, they've kind of pretty much got their whole town covered. You know, it's good. Yeah. But I remember who it was that said, you know, the issue was now getting onto the country roads, I guess, between one town and another live in a rural area. And so depending on what your problem is, if it's just a distance thing, you don't care what kind of road is, you just got to get further and further from your house, you just start going further and further from your house in tiny little increments. But if the problem is that you don't want to get on the highway or the motorway, you get on the highway or the motorway for one exit. That's it. You know, that's the way you just do that again and again and again and again. The problem is country roads between towns, you just get on a country road and start, it doesn't matter if you can only do a quarter mile, but you do a quarter mile, you pull over, you sit there, you do it again, you do it again. So there's no magic, I think. I was just going to say, that's it. See you. Yeah, we're almost there. We're almost done. Something that I noticed when I talked about it before, like I'm just rehashing my old crap here, but like when I managed to walk to the shop, that transpired that I could then walk elsewhere. It didn't just mean I could just walk to my shop now. If I went somewhere else, I could walk in another direction. It didn't just mean that I could only now walk to the shop. So if you drive and you go on a freeway somewhere, like the more that you do that, you can go freaking anyway. You just expand, you get used to the sensations that you're not going to experience or maybe you do, but it doesn't matter. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. As you build each experience, it becomes cumulative. So when you get really good at driving. You use better words than me. I just, yeah. I'm very smart. So if you're having a hard time, if the best you could do is two or three miles away from home, when you expand that to five miles, it becomes way easier to get to 10. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and if you're using kilometers, I don't know what to tell you. I've just thought of something else. Dead. I don't like being a passenger. Ah, that is interesting. We have seen no comments about that. So if you are not the driver, that's good. I don't like it. I don't like it. I don't know why. I don't know what it is. You know, I'm trying to think about this. I think I have a friend like that. I think the thing for me is because when I'm driving, I'm concentrating and focused and I've got like an objective. I'm in control of this. It's not like I'm scared of crashing or anything like that. It's just, maybe it's a boredom thing or I've just got, you know, what am I going to do? I need one of them Fisher price steering wheels. I am so buying you one of those for Christmas with the little rubber horn. Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. You stick it on the dashboard. I'd be fine with that. You pretend you're driving too. Yeah, yeah. You're a gamer. Problem solved, man. Problem solved. Bring your like handheld console. But you know, it's, I'm thinking like there have been people, poor Gemma, we keep talking about Gemma, but you know, Gemma's done a lot of her, I don't think she's necessarily driving. Gemma, you could comment if you want when you read this, but I know she's, she's getting in the car, but I don't know if she's the one actually driving and that might be for other reasons, but I don't think so because she gets taxis. That's it. That's what it is. So, but I think I have a friend of mine, a very old, old friend who he's not old. Well, I'm old. So that means he's old, but a longtime friend who is the same thing. He, and it's not a panic and anxiety thing, but he does not like to be the passenger in the car. Never has as long as I know him. So that's, that's probably a thing. So let's try and, I know people need more, more nuts and bolts that they're hoping for more nuts and bolts. So I'm, I'm going to give you the, I'm going to give you the breakdown. I'll just sit here looking pretty. That's good. You're looking cool with the vaping thing. I might have to get a pan after this. Yeah. Yeah. I'm blowing it towards the camera. This is like 3D. So we'll be in 3D and we'll give you glasses. So I think nuts and bolts here, and this applies to no matter what the situation is, whether it's just getting out of the house and into the car or stretching your distance or getting on the freeway or a country road, whatever it is in the car that you're a problem with. The technique is always exactly the same. First of all, you have to acknowledge that, yeah, you're probably going to freaking hate doing it because it's going to be very scary and uncomfortable the first time you start to stretch those boundaries. So if you haven't been in the car for a year and you're going to start driving, you're going to be really scared. So first of all, the answer, the first thing you have to do, and this will go through all of our how-to videos, is just, that's just no other way around that. So if you're asking, you know, like what, but I'm, you know, I'm terrified to do it. That's not a question. You're just making a statement and yes. So my answer to this, I don't, I don't have a, I don't have a better answer. Right. Exactly. Everybody was scared. So yes, you're going to be scared. You're going to it's going to be really hard and it's going to be terrifying and uncomfortable. So understand that first. The second thing is you just have to break it down into tiny little things. So what I did was as I started to expand my radius, I would get in the car every morning and we've talked about this. So, you know, I get in the car, the first thing I would do when I woke up, I wouldn't lay in bed. I would get up, get dressed. It was in the middle of the winter. It sucked. It was cold and snowy, but I would just get in the car and start driving around my neighborhood. And some mornings I would just drive around my neighborhood literally not going more than three or four blocks away. Like it wasn't far, but I promised myself I would get into a routine of as calmly as possible and confidently as possible getting out the door and in the car and driving away to start that base. And then I would just drive not for distance, but for time. And if I got in the car, drove away and I gage my anxiety at like a level seven, for instance, out of 10, I would say, okay, I'm not going to end this until it's a five. It didn't have to go away. I would just until I'm starting to, you know, feel better than I would end it. And that would start taking within that little two, three, four, five block radius, that started taking shorter and shorter time. So I would just get in the car, drive away and find myself three, four blocks away. I'm like, I feel, okay, this is now normal. And that was my cue to say, now I have to start driving further. And then I would just add another half a mile. And the first time I'd break out of that little radius and, you know, make that right turn and go down a road that, you know, I normally didn't go down, it would be like, you know, boom, the anxiety would spike right up or I might panic a little bit. And I would just say, okay, now I just have to drive this road. I remember seeing your videos like, and then you started working on stop signs and doing a right turn or right turn. I don't even know. It was true. It was you really broke it down. Yeah, it was truly as like boring and mundane as that. There was no like, you know, the sky didn't open in one day. It's like I faced it and accepted it and bam, I was driving all over the place. That wasn't the way it was. I literally said, okay, now I'm going to drive down this street. I'm going to do all mile and a half down to, there's a main road that I live by. It's a, it's pretty big. It's like three, three lanes each direction and with the median and the whole line yards. And that's about a mile, mile and a half or so from my house. And I would get to that. And now it was the moment of truth. So if I turned one way, I had a faster path home. If I turned the other way, I was committed to a much longer drive. And I'm going to say it took me a few weeks to get to the point where I would get to that, that light, that traffic signal and have to make that decision. And okay, I'm going to go right. And it was a right turn, like, uh-oh, here we go. Because the right turn was a longer way home. And it was also heading toward, you know, another problem spot for me, which was heading to my own office, which was only three, three miles away. I think the, the important takeaway there is that you just said it took you a few weeks to get to that point. I think people expect too much, don't they? That's what I see from like, they're going to do one thing, think, okay, I didn't freak out. And then they'll go try something else. And then it just becomes a motivation thing when you just, you have a bad, you have a bad experience and you think this ain't working for me. Right. Right. What happened? I was, I was doing so great. Do you hear people say it or, or they do that thing? Like, well, well, I decided to accept it. I'm accepting my anxiety. So why do I still feel badly? Like, well, that means you didn't really accept it because except that you have to feel badly. And yes, the training frame goes up and out every morning, driving and as often as I could during the day, like that over and over and over. So you just have to take little tiny steps, pick the next thing that's making you nervous or anxious. And then now you're going to have to do that. So basically, you build, you build a skill that, that you could do without any problem for the most part, without being afraid or anticipating or be anxious. And the bad news is unless you can live your life with just that one little thing, like, like I could drive two miles and home, if you're okay with that, you're done. But if you really want to keep going and like live life, you know, the way you really want to do it, you're going to have to say, well, now I'm really comfortable with this. Now I'm going to have to go be uncomfortable again and go further or get on the freeway or go to that down that country road. But you're doing it in small little things. It doesn't mean if you're afraid to get in the freeway, it doesn't mean that you get on the freeway and drive 100 miles, you know, 60 kilometers on the freeway, you don't do that. Right. You know, like sometimes people misinterpret this stuff. Like, yes, you just decide today I'm going to accept my anxiety. No, it doesn't work that way. Exactly. It's hard work. One exit, then you do two exits. And when you could do one exit, like where I live, I could get on the long line expressway and do one exit and it's probably like two miles. The exits are reasonably close together. And I could do that one and then think like, and I remember doing that, like, okay, I'm going to do one, I'm going to go from exit, this exit to that exit, and I would get off and go, you know, around and then back the other way. It's not just basically do the one exit loop. And then I remember being like, I could do this now. And the time I decided to do the second exit, it's solved. It was, it was, you know, but when you do one exit, then two exits by the third exit, that becomes easier. But it's up to four or five exits on the expressway. It was just Yeah, yeah. What difference? 100 miles didn't matter. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I remember when when I first split from my ex, like a few months back, my little and wanted to go to Birmingham, like that's the big, that's the biggest city near me. Sure. I had to take her there. It was like early morning. And all I was thinking, like, I haven't drove that far for ages, haven't experienced the traffic in that. But it was just the same as me driving anywhere else. Nothing any different. Didn't matter, right? Here's an interesting one for you. I've just got something else. Just firing them at you. Where's the difference between me driving to McDonald's, right? I can drive to McDonald's fine. Right. Not condoning the use of McDonald's. But put me in the queue at the drive through and I can't escape. Then I have negative thoughts. Well, because you can't escape. But I'm still in the same freaking piece of metal in the same seat. I'm still in control of the vehicle. It's just crazy how you can interpret like put the car there, you're right. Stick it in that queue. I'm going to say that there's probably some of that has to do I think with there's everybody has an ultimate safety zone, right? Everybody does where you feel the safest. And so even though maybe you'll have a panic attack at home, what has what has always been your best safety zone? It's usually home. Yeah. And for some people, it's actually literally one room in their home. Yeah. Yeah. So I think the drive through a red, a lot of people have driving problems because of the stopping traffic signal. And it's in traffic. They can't move the drive through at the Donald's or the bank. Same problems. And it's because now you can't not that you are thinking specifically going need to get back home. You're not. But you know that if for some reason right this minute, I had to like stop on the gas and head to home, you know that you can't. And I think that's probably the issue. It's yeah. Yeah. You're not being able to not be able to have to escape. Right. Made it around the frigging thing. Although once I did pull up at the first window pay and then just drive off before collecting my food. But I didn't do it because I was anxious. I did it because my head was at my own arse. Some lucky SOB went up getting like a free cheeseburger that day and a pigment. Not too shabby. That worked out for them then. I think was out to go around again. I was feeling nervous. Do it again. You made it worse for yourself. Do it again. Do it again. Do it again. That's true. But that's actually a good point. The red lights, the traffic jams, people getting there like what if I get stuck in traffic? I'll be stuck like in the place. I don't want to be. Yeah. So exactly. And people will people will go out of their way to avoid busier roads. Like they'll go the long way around because it's going to be quieter just because they don't want to get caught in that traffic. That's true. I would I used to do that. And I think if you're working on this stuff, like, you know, driving is a problem specific things by driving. It's okay in the beginning to engineer that practice so that you don't wind up, you know, stop dead and rush hour gridlock. It's okay. Yeah. Like you don't have to go like, okay, I have to tackle this. So let me go right into the midtown tunnel heading into New York City at five o'clock. Like we don't do that. So when you get more comfortable, because the the object of the game is the worst driving situation. I'm either far from home on a deserted road or I'm on a highway or I'm in traffic. First, you have to be okay being in the car and just driving it, you know. And when you understand that like, well, just because I'm in the car doesn't make me any less safe than anywhere else, then you're ready to say, well, I might hit some traffic or red lights, or I'll go through the drive through at the bank or to get some food. But it's okay to work up to those things. In fact, you almost have to. I think that's the key. I think I honestly think that that's what I've been doing like this last week, just small, small increments until you reach those points. Because it's important to feel the anxiety. Obviously, there's no point doing stuff if it's not going to bring anything on. Right. But don't go overboard because that's when for me personally, that's when I've lost the momentum. It makes you start questioning your own courage, whether it's worth doing it. Obviously, it's worth doing it. Yeah. That's when it gets like, we know that it's supposed to be hard. It's never going to be easy. Right. But you can do too much. It is true. And I think that speaks to motivation. And, you know, people expect expectations, motivation, what you think what your goals are. But as far as driving, I think to express a couple of, I mean, we had a few people on Facebook group who did ask some questions. So we can address those, but the answers are always going to be the same. For the most part, Sabrina is judging us, by the way. Yes, Laura asked, what do I do when I get back in the car to start driving alone again and start to feel panicky and derealization? Want to answer that? Nothing. Nothing. Right. Exactly. So Laura, I think the answer to that is, know that that is exactly going to happen. Asking the question, yeah, but what do I do if I panic in the car? Like panic. Like panic in the car. You have to panic in the car. We need you to do that. So she mentions also like, what about what about if the kids are in the car? She doesn't want them to know that she's panicking. And I totally understand that. Yeah. So I'm also trying to hide it from them while feeling like I'm going crazy. And to top it off, the boys are so loud in the car, which makes the panic so much worse. So there's a couple of things going on there. And I'm guessing a few people will be able to relate to Laura's question. So first of all, what happens, what do you do? You do nothing. You just, if you have to pull over, pull over, right? That's what I was going to say. Yeah, you help them in the past. Yeah, yeah, you got to be safe. So it's okay. So and that's, if you're at the point where just the act of getting in the car by yourself, it's going to send you into a panic. Well, don't jump on the freeway, like just keep it local, you know, on lightly traffic roads so that when you panic, or you start to feel that you can just pull over and let it be. But what I said earlier, where I used to go out and drive until I could feel my anxiety subside, and I would have all of those symptoms. But the worst one was the derealization and that feeling of being just slightly dizzy. But I had to realize like I'm not really dizzy here. If I was dizzy, I wouldn't have drove the car. Of course, I'm not silly. But understanding what it really was, and I would have to just let those people be there, you know, yeah, until they would start to go away. So what do you do? Pull over if you have to, if you're able to, and you have to judge that, just keep driving, just keep it slow and deliberate. And, you know, don't don't go into like high speed mode. And you, and you're doing the same things that you would, if you're having a panic attack in the supermarket, no, oh my God, no, what if no inner dialogue, none of those things, you just have to kind of just let them happen and do it, and do it like you are. Yeah, I've done that on the motorway where I've just slowed down, because I feel myself getting energy, so just slow down, chill. Sure. There's no, there's no harm in that. There's a race, you don't have to get really fast. And as far as hiding it from the kids when you're driving, I think what happens, a lot of people ask, you know, when the kids are in the car, well, what if I something bad happens to me and I crash and something happens to my kids? Well, nothing, you, nothing bad ever happens, right? So you never pass out, you never go crazy, you never lose your mind, you never have a heart attack, you never have a stroke, you never have those things happen. So I would think, if you're at the stage where, so they're asking the question, what if, what if I have a panic attack in the car and something happens to my kids? That's not, that's not a question you should really be asking. Yeah. You're still believing that something bad is going to happen because of nothing. Nothing's going to happen to the kids if you have a panic attack. That's, that's exactly true. I mean, I had panic in front of my kids in the car. If I'd ever happened in the car, it's, I think it may have happened in the car, but two things, like number one, and you always have the ability to pull over, but again, maybe work on this stuff without the kids in the car initially. If you're going to have five alarm panic in the car, then have it just, if you possibly can just do it alone. Yeah. You know, but that means if you have to get up a little earlier, or you got to enlist the aid of your husband or your partner, whoever it is, Laura, or whoever's talking and, you know, it was watching, take care of the kids so that you can drive alone every single day for a few minutes just to get better at that. Then that's kind of what you're going to have to try to do. If it is having the kids in the car that's maybe assisting the triggering of it, then just do it, start the process again, but just keep it local again. Don't, don't be going to try and. That's exactly right. So if it's just being in the car, freaks you out, you got to be in the car alone first to freak out and then you got to add the kids into the equation and like Billy said, just then scale it back, keep it local again. You can't, there's no way. Look, it is what it is. We have to do this work the situation. Laura, you're in that situation. You can't imagine, you can't snap your fingers and get out of it. So unfortunately the kids are going to have to be involved in some point. There's no quick fix. No. And I think even if they do, to address the thing of what if they see, I don't want them to see me panicking. You know, I would almost suggest that everybody, maybe not while driving because that's not always safe, but you know, we've talked about this before. Do you ever take it? Do you ever look at your old videos when you're in a panic or really high anxiety? Oh, yes. And look back and say, okay, well, I could see that I was tugging on my ear. I was doing this, but otherwise I don't look like I'm crazy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you never looked. Yeah. Look at the last week's live stream. Look, I'm freaking out big time. Who would know? I mean, we might know because we're, that's what the topic is. But if I hadn't said anything, nobody would have known. I don't know. Probably would have never known. You know, so I think that's that thing where, you know, we're overestimating what a panic attack looks like to the outside world. It doesn't look like that at all. I mean, unless you're literally just dropped to your knees and you're screaming bloody murder. It makes me, it makes me smile when you're doing your walk in, when you're out walking, you're doing it live. And somebody says, what would you do if you had a panic attack now? And you always say, you don't know that I'm not. Oh, yeah, that was just recently I did. I was on that little hike. I could be panicking right now. Right. I would just do exactly what I'm doing now. I might be panicking right this minute. You would, you don't know. I think the kids are not going to, you have to get over that too. You're giving, again, that's catastrophizing. You're thinking, this is going to look horrible. I'm going to be out of control. And that's not really the way it is. And the odds are the kids aren't even going to know that you're in a panic. So, so you're all good. You know, the fact that the kids are loud, you just have to desensitize yourself to that. There's no good way around that. So let's, let's take another one real quick. So, well, Molly asked a different question. This is a different Laura. Let's go back to Molly's question, because it's not really a driving question related. So Laura, a different Laura who asked, I'd love to hear advice on breaking the habit of avoidance. We can talk about this in every video. Relating it to driving the psychology that has me planning recovery and the next thing I know I'm renovating the bathroom, which is kind of brilliant in a way that she recognizes that. Yeah. You want to take that one? Have you found yourself ever doing that? Of course. Avoiding. I'm the master of avoidance. That's what this is all about in a way. It really is. It really is. The more you avoid, the more you reinforce that you're in danger. Right. Sound like me, dude. Sorry. I've been watching too many of you. That's okay. That's true, though. That's exactly true. So Laura, like avoidance is the key of every, the key to everything. Like that's how agoraphobia happens too. You avoid one thing and then another thing and then another thing and another thing and next year you're avoiding everything and you're stuck. You know, the problem, the problem then becomes that you just anticipate stuff so much more. That's what I've been doing. Like the two walks that I've done last week, I didn't, I didn't really anticipate them that much, but I've been avoiding doing them. So it just made it more of an issue than it actually was and me going and doing it and filming it and nothing happening. That proved, it proved that it was more of an issue in my head than it actually was me going and doing the fucking stuff. Yeah. So, you know, how do you get around that? I mean, we're talking about driving in this one, but this applies to driving and everything else. Breaking the habit of avoidance. I don't have a good magic trick to do it. You just have to decide today I'm going to do it. It's good that you understand what you're doing, but that's, that's a question that almost anybody, whether they're dealing with panic and anxiety can, can ask themselves almost anytime. That's a discipline and a decision making. Like, I really, I need to like, you know, whatever I need to do my homework, but I really want to play Xbox instead. Like, people, people deal with that. So you just, you just have to decide like, this is going to suck, but I'm going to do what I need to do. I'm going to get in the car and start working on the stuff. So Laura, that's the best answer I think we can give you. And the last one was Molly. It's okay. You do what you're going to do. Kids. Kids. Incidentally, she wants me to go and pick her up, which means I've got to go in the car, but it means I've got to go to the fuel station first because I haven't got any coincidentally have to get in the car. Don't worry about that though. You're worried about the fuel station. It's not too bad. It's not as much of an issue now because I have to do it. That's a big difference for me now. You see, there was before when I was with, yeah, I could get out of doing stuff. Whereas now. So along me, it's a good thing. Yeah. And so it's forced you to do that. And now, now it's not no more avoidance. Yeah. Right. Right. You were forced to not avoid. Yeah. I get it. So Molly says, how do I go to the doctors without freaking out? I have health anxiety. I do not avoid them. But when I go, I'm really nervous for good week before I'm even there. So I'm going to say that this is a question about anticipation, which is just like avoidance. Anticipation avoidance are the same really like almost the same issue. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So you know that you have to do something, whether it's getting in the car and starting to like practice driving again or going to the doctors or whatever it is that is problematic for you. And you think about it and you think about it and you try and predict the future. It's going to be terrible. I'm going to panic. Right. This is going to have me to pass out. I'm going to whatever. And so you're scared about it before you even do it. And then you don't do it. So that's anticipation leads to avoidance. The best answer I have for that question, Molly, is you have to learn that's the cognitive part of this. Like it's not all exposure. It's there's also you have to work on being able to, you know, disengage that inner dialogue and just let thoughts come and go. And you know, I did the meditation thing with Susan. I'll be working on that that helps to scale. And you just, there's that you have to learn that skill of being able to like dismiss those irrational thoughts and understand like, well, right now I'm worried about going. So Molly, for instance, just go to the doctor say next week, she's already freaking out over it. You have to be able to say like I'm freaking out over going to a doctor appointment next week. That is not here. Like the only moment you actually have is the one you have right now. So there's mindfulness. There's, there's mental focus. There's the ability to understand what those thoughts are and say, well, this is one of those thoughts that I is problematic for me. So I need to either replace it, challenge it, take it down, you know, be more mindful. There's a million different things that go into that. Just had to do a little selective editing apologies. It's okay. It happens. A big deal. So I think we've covered pretty much. I mean, there was only a couple of questions on on the Facebook group about this. Yeah, well, we didn't really give them a lot of notice. Yeah, we'll try and do that better next time. So I think we'll end as we always do. So if you're watching this video, it's going to be on my YouTube channel, freaking subscribe, man, I need like 80 of you to do it just mental health, man. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, share the video, comments here, comments. And if it will put a link to the Facebook group, you got to you got to join the Facebook group, even if you hate Facebook growing, it's growing and it's just a good group of people. Well, most of the question happens there. Most of the viewers of my stream are from the group. I get a few stragglers drop in now and again. We got about another week or two, we're going to hit 1000 people. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm amazed. I was amazed when we got to 50. It was like, you me and the two other people here's our group. And it was all it was all coming off that first bunch of podcasts where we did because that was why we set the group up in the first place. Remember, that's right. When we was talking about exposure. Yep. And it worked out really well. So yeah, join the Facebook group and, you know, subscribe to the channel, comment wherever you want. What's your website, Bill? Anxietyunit.com, but don't bother going there. It's a lot of crap. Follow me on YouTube. Yeah, YouTube's where it's at. YouTube.com slash Anxiety United. That's the one. We'll link the Billy's channel in the description. Yeah, it's fine. Totally fine. It's Thanksgiving this week. What are you doing? Yes, next week celebrations. We have today is Saturday. So yes, American Thanksgiving. Do you guys have Thanksgiving? Do you have one of those? Canadians do it. We don't. Do you have Boxing Day? We have Boxing Day. We have Bomb Fire Night as well, which I learned recently that you don't have. I have never heard of this. What is that? So basically, let's give some, share the English tradition, basically Guy Fawkes years ago. That's how good my history knowledge is years ago. You tried to blow up the house of the parliament, basically. So every year on the 5th of November, people let off fireworks and set light bomb fires. No kidding. Yeah. And we celebrate terrorism. I love it. You guys are badass. This is why the sun never set on the British Empire for so long. We celebrate that. Remember when that guy tried to blow up our entire system of government? Brilliant. Awesome. I think we all wind up doing that stuff. Next week. Next week is Bin Laden Day. No. Bin Laden varieties. Well, a big, you know, it's a whole different thing. I'm sorry. It's okay. Here we have a big debate. Every time there's a new thing, like the 9-11, of course, a big, but a lot of people say like, well, that should be a, you know, we should call it a holiday here in the US. And maybe we should. I don't like views on that. But, but a lot of people say, yeah, we'll call it a holiday. And then within 30 years, it'll just be like a hot dogs and hamburgers day. Yeah, fireworks and like you forget why. Cotton candy. Yeah. So who knows? But wow. Guy Fawkes. Guy Fawkes, bonfire night. Bonfire night. Awesome. Yeah, we're gonna have, we have Thanksgiving on Thursday. So are you going to stream on Thursday? I am, but it's just going to be me and a couple of English people. Be me, Gemma, Steph. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, be fine. Charlene. Yeah. Charlene Scottish, I think. I love the way that for some reason the stream, well, we're going way off topic here, but we'll just finish with a beer. Sure. It's the stream that even when people are calling now, they're saying, oh, I wanted to put one in for the Americans. It's just, it makes me laugh. I had a new caller on Thursday and was like, oh, I couldn't let the English pull away with this. That friendly rivalry. That's good. It's good. It's like sibling. It is healthy. It's healthy. It pushes us all forward. Exactly. So in a way, we're really just moving the human race forward is what you and I are doing here. That's it. That's what it's all about. Was there ever any doubt about that? So what should our next topic be? How do I, what do you think? You guys feel free to like add suggestions. Yeah. Yeah. Give us some comments and let us know what you think. I don't know. I'm trying to do these once a week if possible. Like a big thing for me has always been going out for dinner. That's something that's always bothering me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Social situations out to eat parties. I think that should be our next one. Let's do it. Yeah. You'll have a lot more to add than I will on that. But I'll be in it. I'll do that one from in a restaurant. How's that? Oh, that would be just set up the camera and stuff sitting at a table. Ribs. That's so that's good. That's good. Yeah. That'll be the next one we should do. How do I go out to eat or go into social situations like that? I think it's good. So all right, folks. Thanks for hanging around. I don't know how long we're gone. Probably half hour. Let's hope people enjoy this. Like we're out of practice doing this stuff, man. We are. It was a little rough getting started after a year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's all right. Part of the problem here, you and I, is we just do no show. We have no prep. I'll send you a picture of just like the ridiculous Rube Goldberg of wires that I just the technical problems I had. Billy didn't have any problems. He was ready. I've been sitting here. I've been sitting here. I'm surrounded by cloud computing and like all that kind of stuff and I could not get like Skype to work. I've been sitting here for three hours eating pizza. I have been just running cables. I'm standing on top of cables now. I'll send you a picture and like Billy's just been easing his pain with pizza while he waits. We're not, we are not professional in any way. We should be better at this. Yeah. We're getting there. We're getting there. We will. It's fine. Winging it works out good. All right, guys. We'll see you next time. Good luck.