 So let's get started with our first session before we do that a few organizational remarks you all have Received the link to the to this web cart application I assume not only those here in the room, but also those that are that are watching from wherever they are You can use this web cart tool to ask questions So for those in the room you can always raise your hand and ask questions, of course But if you prefer you can also use this web card and the same is true For those that join remotely and if you do so I will have a look I have a have a tablet here and I'll look at this tablet regularly So when a question comes up and I see it on there and we have enough time I will be happy to bring it up. So this is an invitation for everybody to participate. I Would not like to ask the first three panelists to join me here on the stage Manencia Paul and Christoph I will I will introduce you later But so that you so that you're just on the stage here with me the first session We are going to talk about global digital readiness enabling a powerful digital postal ecosystem and as we all know Successful and inclusive digital transformation of posts needs coordinated approaches. It needs innovative partnerships And that's what we are here actually today for its partnerships We are talking about partnerships in all our our sessions here. So digitization We know that is transforming our industry, but it is also transforming customer needs, of course So these trends are triggering considerable changes in the posts themselves in their strategies They require them to increase reliability transparency security sustainability and Efficiency to meet customer expectations which are changing as I said so the up you leads projects They bring together key players to improve the digital capacity and also the digital capabilities of posts and those projects have Also as an objective to bridge the readiness the digital readiness gaps that exist between countries and between Regions so in our first session here will discuss how digital technologies are transforming the industry will discuss how Postal operators can leverage digital tools to become stronger to become more reliable more transparent And everything that it needs to become more customer focused And we are going also to look at at a few of the successful up you driven projects That can support posts on their digital transformation journey. So let me quickly introduce our panelists here today We have an answer as you okay She's the acting general manager of operations and marketing at Zimbabwe was welcome We have Baldana who coordinated digital policies and trade at the up you and we have Christopher Copka is the industry manager for post-land parcel services at SAP and the way we are going to do is Each of our panelists will have a few minutes to make to make an intervention to make a short presentation and after After three or four depending on the panel presentations will open the discussion Okay, please I would now like to invite Penencia to take the floor. You can do it from here or from there Thank you. Good day everyone. Oh protocol is observed I think I've already been introduced. My name is Venencia Skauke. I'm from Zimbabwe posts I'm the acting general manager marketing and operations and my presentation is mainly going to focus on How the post is moving towards? Global digital ribbon readiness. You can move over to the next slide So What you are seeing on my presentation Oh, okay, thank you. So what you are seeing on my presentation This is the Zimbabwe postal network how the physical post office is widely distributed around the country These are the post offices that we have you can move over to the next slide So Zimbabwe post is a state-owned enterprise that is hundred percent owned by government It was established in year 2000 following the unbundling of the post on telecommunications corporation It is the designated operator in Zimbabwe and it has got a network of over 240 postal outlets as it has been depicted on the first slide we have 151 community information centers and also 39 containerized village information information centers these The physical postal outlets that we have in Zimbabwe you can move okay so as Zimbabwe posts our digital strategy is mainly focused on Penetrating the international markets and also providing service to the domestic markets and on the international market We have products like e-commerce Financial services through the fintech solutions post our interoperability and then on our domestic markets We are focusing on e-government services Financial services and on-demand logistics and our main pillars for our business is the international pillar The commercial pillar domestic wise and also our social pillar because we are universally Obligated to offer postal services to the Zimbabwe public and our mandate as a designated postal operator is to offer postal courier real estate and financial services to the Zimbabwe and publics and internationally and the digital opportunities for the post Include one stop fulfillment centers taking advantage of the wide postal network that the post already has the postal logistics government services retail banking financial services insurance e-commerce The sky is the limit for the services that the post can offer to the transacting public Taking advantage of its physical Distribution distribution which is already wide The post office with the advent of technology has got an opportunity to offer services 24 7365 without a limit of the conventional business hours and The post cannot do it alone. It can do it through multilateral agreements collaborations partnerships with both the public and the private sector so the advent of technology has brought about a lot of digital opportunities for the post office and The technologies that are likely to benefit the post in the future. They are e-commerce and financial services because of the already existing Physical infrastructure. There's no better partner or better organization to provide these digital services safe for the post office and on e-commerce the Business lines can differ depending on from one country to another and this includes online shopping First mile and last mile delivery online advertising Payment solution warehousing services and on financial services Our role is major in remittances Agents banking banking services Disbursements collection payouts insurance services the list is actually endless in terms of the opportunities that the post can have and This is a pictorial of our journey is Zimbabwe posts towards digitalization our aim by 2025 is to ensure that we move to towards a smart post office and We are already a few miles before we arrived to our journey Where we are currently on the Zimbabwe more Which is almost next to the post office as depicted pictorially where we have launched an e-commerce platform Where people can buy online people can advertise online we can do last mile and first mile delivery for partners that have That have engaged us to offer those services already on their existing e-commerce platforms So this picture is basically depicting our journey is Zimbabwe post and we are moving towards a smart post office where all services can be Accessed digitally by people without necessarily visiting the physical post office and the post office offering that service on their behalf People can shop whilst in the comfort of their homes and we can go a mile further by ensuring that we deliver those products and services to the customers and The growth window that we have seen is Zimbabwe posts is through e-commerce We as Zimbabwe posts developed an online shop in 2017 and it was initially named the Zimbabwe is disimposed more We then rebranded it in 2020. We wanted to give it a national appeal because by Naming it disimposed we thought it was limiting our customers who can actually Access the e-commerce services even as e-sellers. So we then rebranded it to Zimbabwe posts Where we gave it a national appeal where we have various e-sellers who are actually sitting on that platform from grocery shops, pharmaceuticals Hardware people who sell their products small to medium and enterprises They are now sitting on the Zimbabwe mall because we gave it a national appeal. It was a mall for the country and It's currently sitting on the dot post domain and we are using Shopify as the online shop technology We chose the dot post domain because it was easy for us to implement With the continuous and first changes that are happening in technology with dot post as Zimbabwe posts We do not need to focus on various Upgrading because it's already covered under the dot post domain. The issue of cybersecurity cannot be over emphasized And it was also less costly for us to implement and we are we also get 24 7365 support services from the dot post group and the Benefits for for digital redness these include They encourage zimpost is among the operations redness for e-commerce and by having By being part of the redness program It encourages our services to be accelerated in terms of following the digital pace that is currently Happening we are able to develop the digital transformation concepts it assists the posts to offer digital services and I think I'll move over to there are challenges that are associated with adopting new technologies and Chief among them are beliefs and past experiences So the need to change perception and continuously market the digital platforms cannot be overemphasized as people Are not used to to access services digitally, but they have got the experience of getting their service physically so the need for us to change perception on Offering services on digital platforms cannot be overemphasized I will conclude my presentation in saying that the post needs logistics infrastructure in the form of Delivery equipment e-commerce warehouses for us to participate strongly in this Era and the post cannot do it alone. They need to have partnerships collaborations for us to participate fully in the digital redness as we also offer the Service to the transacting public. I thank you The presentation from where you are or come over here, but please Paul take a floor. Thank you Bernard. Good morning everybody Today I'm very happy to talk to you about Some important work that the UPU has been doing to encourage digital transformation and digitalization of postal services Venetia has actually done an excellent job to show how digitalization and digital transformation can actually help posts in Developing countries become more relevant to the needs of the market the changing needs of the market And I think it's very relevant because we have gone through a seismic shift in the last couple of years with Covert other crisis. It's really focusing the whole community on digital Digital transformation and also sustainability is a key mega trend that we have in the in the industry as well So these two are really focusing us on What should be the role of the post in this new economy and how as? Our deputy director general mentioned how partnerships are such a vital way for this digital journey to develop During COVID times then we have seen that Posts have adopted digital Services and become more digitally oriented. We've been talking about this for a number of years now about the importance of doing this But as we all know we were locked down for over two years We were isolated as citizens and our contact with the outside world was digital We were using these devices To communicate we were using these devices to do business and we were using these devices to actually be in contact with The outside world and so e-commerce as Venetia mentioned became a very important function that the posts had to fulfill They also had to fulfill government services the distribution of payments Public services were done Digitally through the post but also physically because the postman was the only postman and women were the only people who were wandering around the community Continuing to maintain contact and so this concept of having a Digital and physically enabled postal network became reality. It wasn't a dream anymore. It was reality And we saw that in many countries in the developing world Then we saw a rapid adoption of technology particularly mobile technology For the delivery of financial payments for the delivery of identity services We saw e-commerce becoming a big thing and national e-commerce platforms as Venetia mentioned Became a focus for posts around the world So this digital journey actually was launched by COVID even though it was a terrible situation It actually created a seismic shift for for our industry and we see that all over the world in Costa Rica The Costa Rica post developed new e-commerce services SME support services And government services as well in Fiji Even small island developing states were adopting technology and new strategies for embracing digitalization so What we saw From the UPU's perspective was an increase in interest in our products and services Venetia mentioned dot post dot post has been an increasingly interesting project from the UPU to help posts Develop an internet presence a cyber secure internet presence Our financial services was also Increasingly in the focus point. So a number of UPU projects from our postal technology center. You'll hear more about today Also were of interest Also as part of this Venetia mentioned a Project that we launched called the digital readiness assessment program And we're very happy to have Zimbabwe as one of the target countries for that We launched this in Africa with a demand responding to a demand from our members and Also from international development partners who are funding the development of national infrastructure And they saw this increasing role of the post in the economy again becoming relevant because of the power of this network and because of the way post could adopt technology so Development partners were interested to invest in the development of the post. So we created a digital readiness Capability assessment program the digital readiness free commerce to respond to those demands and the purpose was to investigate the challenges that posts around the world are facing with adopting technology in Developing digital strategies and understanding what those challenges were and trying to identify Solutions and approaches that can help posts move forward on their digital journey and achieve what Venetia's Roadmap indicates is a smart post of the future a post that can be capable to support the new customer centric Demands that the network has we all know that Organisations now need to be customer focused the customer needs to be at the center and digital solutions can create a good way for customers to be at the center of of the of the business With our digital readiness program then we deployed a team into 10 countries in Africa and during COVID times it was very challenging program to To implement and I thank the consultants some of which are in the room today who supported the UPU in this project and we went out into the field and we Interviewed all of the different stakeholders in the postal business Not just the postal operators, but also the customers The the government stakeholders the regulators in the ministry and other stakeholders that are related to the environment of Digitalization and national digital plans and we spoke with them and tried to understand their challenges their expectations and how The posts could fulfill those and also how the post could be integrated International strategies for the development of e-commerce the national national digital strategy the national digital Transformation strategy a number of these activities at the government level because many times Governments are not thinking of the post in terms of their future digital Journey they think of the post as an old-fashioned delivery and logistics business only now that's the reality That we are coming from that position of logistics and delivery But there are also a number of exciting opportunities Venetia mentioned in financial services in government services And so our function also in implementing this project was to ensure that governments understood the potential that the post could bring to implementing their national strategies and so we looked at a Number of different elements of the business as well We looked at We looked at as I said not just post and delivery and logistics, but we also looked at Operational improvements. We looked at new services. We looked at government services like identity services different types of public services where governments have Objectives and maybe don't know how to implement those and have never thought of the post as a partner in that area So we explored all of those and came up with a series of recommendations for each of the 10 countries that we visited with this digital readiness program and Report was presented to the ministry as well. We've worked on a continental report for Africa So there's a series of recommendations Resulting from the experience that we had in the 10 countries in Africa And that continental report will form a roadmap for the future implementation of a digitalization program across the continent and with that, I think I'd like to thank Venetia from Zimbabwe and all of the countries that were involved. We also had Egypt Kenya Mauritania Benin Madagascar That were involved in the in the program and hopefully all of those countries received the same benefit That Venetia mentioned in her presentation With that burn it. Thank you Okay, before we come to the discussion our last speaker, please Christoph So, um, yeah, pleasure to be here. My name is Christoph Kopka I'm the industry manager for the postal and parcel services at SAP and I'm going to talk about embracing the cloud mindset For modern and sustainable postal enterprises a quick introduction Maybe also to SAP in the in the context of the postal and parcel world. We're delivering To 67 postal and CP services worldwide and it's also a sub-segment of public sector where we have over 16,000 customers from 151 countries And also included in that postal postal banks sub-series affiliates and it makes up a hundred and plus business partners we have So let's get started. Maybe with a quick analogy Coming from formula one cars can go up to 370 kilometers an hour and it's an amazing speed and to maintain that speed They have to go through break-checking I have to go to refueling engine checks and that is what the pit stop is about So the pit stop in formula one has developed quite significantly in the 60 plus years of formula one Coming from 60 plus seconds per pit stop now down to about two seconds So that's an amazing transformation, right? So how did they achieve it? Well? I mean quite frankly, it's not only about technology in the car or fast cars are going and it's more a Considerate approach of the whole system. Where do you improve the whole system and not just single elements? Coming back to maybe postal market trend strategy We're seeing in this market environment. We see competitors coming in Customer demand changing market trends changing revenue streams changing, right? So it's gonna be a key deterministic factor of Who can adapt the fastest fastest to these changes and that's gonna result and who's gonna be a winner Just merely maybe a merely adept organization or who's gonna be overtaken By the competitor and being left in the dust at the end Cloud solutions cloud solutions can help us that faster time to innovate Due to the faster release cycles also a better feedback system So how do you think about cloud solutions? Well, don't you think about cloud solutions as a piece of technology? You have to redefine how postal services see their responsibility in their countries as an operator And what value they deliver to customers and citizens in the country If you look at the cloud project or a transformation project just as a technology replacement or a deployment option And you keep the business processes the same you keep behaviors the same you keep patterns the same there is no transformation Culture is key and culture is hard to change But we need to transform as an organizations to stay relevant in The current market marketplace in the in the economic in the present as well in the future Earn your customer every day. That's a mantra which can help you to realize Where we are on this cloud journey together So a company that has really coined that phrase is Amazon The number one thing that has made us successful by far is obsessive compulsive focus in the customer That's a culture, but that's also an operational model, right? Having the customer at the center of your core business at everything you do every single step you take This is there. They want mentality. So day one is about being agile being trying things out and Being innovative, but day one also means to try things out and to be brave enough to fail and learn Yeah, so and then at the end of course delight the customer better from these kind of learning experience you have so what what would happen if if We don't know what the customer wants and you can maybe see an example here This poor guy bought a rock online didn't meet his requirements So but okay, how can we how can we understand customers needs better? Let's take a look at what we did with post office UK So the post office UK has branches across the whole UK over 11,000 branches And they were the biggest challenge is maintaining or improving even the service level across all of these branches So they partnered up with us and said hey You have a cloud solution for experience management and now customers going into these branches give feedback To the post office incidents get reported and the best practices get shared across the country And this is the result you see so the post office UK is now the number one rated public services entity by NPS in 2021 And that's still holding strong So that's a great example of exceptional customer service, right? So the second mantra I have is data-driven decision-making Why is data important? Well as Edward Stemling put it without data you're just another person with an opinion Okay, data is important. So what what should we measure? What should we look at? Well, maybe start with the most Impactful most critical data to your current operations and analyze this however I think there needs to be an common understanding of why this data is important How we analyze it and how we interpret it You might have heard about survivorship bias Right for those who don't know planes from a US military mission came back from the war and basically they did this Analysis of where planes were shot at there to make an adjustment of reinforcing these kind of parts and Well, if you're the same uneducated Military personal you could say okay. I'm gonna put my reinforcement there where the most red dots are because that's where the most Bulleted right, but the planes who didn't make it back That was not taken into account. So you can see the cockpit the engines, right? Every bullet that hit there No plane made it back. So these are the areas which need to reinforce with the most We are sometimes Looking at data We see in front of us At the expense of the data we don't see and that leads to survivorship bias. So we need to provide teams with a complete view of the business and And and also what the customer wants Yeah, and this is how we can overcome this survivorship bias a few examples also from what we did with customers Who went with us in the cloud here? We have CTT and post italiana. They were able to standardize a lot of their processes They came from legacy systems a lot of maintenance cost reduction and custom code Overall a simplification there in the digital landscape now Reducing also the systems they have and reporting from one single source of truth Yeah, that and that creates More effective reports and real-time analysis and simulations where you then can decide better on actions to take and they measure 20% also an improvement in operational efficiency also with that But don't take it only from Postal customer base. We have a far more reaching base who are venturing with us on this Cloud journey, which most of you already have set up on and these are some KPIs You want to look at and want to take Maybe a try for for a process automation or artificial intelligence So this is how you embrace cloud mentality and become maybe the faster race car on the track Thank you very much Thank you very much Christoph Just looking here whether there are any questions, so what I said in the beginning is still of course valid So if you have any questions raise your hand or or send them in why are the that's why parks Thank you very much to all three of you was was really very interesting as a start to see Kind of the different needs requirements. Let me start with an answer. I mean you were describing your journey into the e-commerce e-commerce marketplace that you develop. Can you say a few figures about that growth? For example that you experienced over the time How how it how it was growing? Okay? Thank you. So for the e-commerce platform like I mentioned earlier on we Loaded it in 2017 and the numbers were very small from around 2017 to to 2020 when we then rebranded we're talking of our about less than 500 visitors on our e-commerce platform and then like some of the challenges in terms of perception of online shopping I think we're contributing to To those low figures. We also then felt as an organization that on our e-commerce platform Let us give it a give it a national appeal so that everyone will realize that we really need to partner the post and we then rebranded it to be a national online platform where we now had different E-sellers coming into the platform because for a person to think to be selling his hardware components at a post office By naming it Zimbabwe Zimboste mall people might shun away, but by giving it a national appeal we then ensured that a person might not be limited with the type of industry that they are offering and with the coming in of COVID-19 it really accelerated Growth on our e-commerce platform where we in 2020 we started recording numbers of about 3000-4000 visitors a month on our platform Why because people then realized that the post is still relevant to offer the physical The last mile delivery the first mile deliver of these components and with the national induced lockdowns People started embracing online shopping and then that's when we really saw growth and from that period until now people who were now using online shopping during COVID-19 and during them during the national induced lockdowns Then did not leave that habit. They then continued So I think that's how the growth has been like We still need to ensure that we market more to ensure that people embrace online shopping particularly in different I'm sure in different countries the the embracing is is being different So that's how our growth trajectory has been like is Zimbabwe post. Yeah Just look around the room here There is a question from over here, please Maybe with the microphone, you know for the people who join remotely if they also can hear Just as a follow-up question to Berners question, how does Zimbabwe's generate revenues from Zimbabwe mall? Okay, so we have got four different Revenue areas. So we have E-Sellers, these are different organizations that are sitting on our mall and they we any commission of the gross sales So E-Sellers, it's a one revenue area Then we have advertising because we have named we have made it a national mall with different organizations Who do not who do not necessarily a sitting one? Do not necessarily need to be sitting on the mall, but they are offering their services They are advertising their services on our mall because of the number of visitors who have been visiting our mall Then we also have last mile delivery where we have Organization that already have got their malls and they've partnered Zimbabwe post to offer last mile delivery For the goods that would have been bought on their mall. So we have organizations who will sit on our Their links will be sitting on our mall once people visit their mall and then they buy They then choose Zimbabwe post as the delivery partner. So we also have revenue from last mile delivery through other e-commerce platforms We also have online advertising and we also in our revenue through commissions for various organizations that are actually sitting on our mall Okay There's another question here and then another question. Please wait for the microphone, please Thank you. Yes. Thank you for the presentations and my question to the to the poll I wanted to ask what were most difficult is that you faced implementing these programs in different countries So as I mentioned, we undertook this project during COVID time So there was a number of difficulties around COVID times But in terms of what we found in the different countries There was a number of countries where we found there was a complete disconnect between the government and The postal operator in terms of the role that the post could play in Implementing government services. The governments weren't thinking about the post in a very wide innovative environment And so that caused us a challenge because sometimes to actually go and knock on some ministers Other ministry doors to talk about the post They didn't understand the context of why we would want to talk with the Ministry of Internal Affairs about the role The post could play so we had to do a little bit of an education Also with the government to make them realize that the post is a multi-faceted business as I mentioned not just a logistics and delivery business and Opening that conversation up then opened their eyes to the fact the post could be a really critical National infrastructure for a number of different government programs and that was quite exciting Let me follow up on that. Maybe Paul. How did you find those? Those 10 countries did they approach you and say, okay We want to be part of this exercise or did you reach out to them? And then did you reach out to the post or to the government or to both? so we had requests from As I mentioned our development partners who are investing and preparing National digital strategies nationally commerce strategies and they saw some challenges with universal inclusion of SMEs in particular in the remote and rural areas was very easy for them to identify partners in the capital cities But partners in the rural and remote areas was a challenge for them And so they approached us to see whether the post could be potentially re-schooled re-skilled retooled to be capable of this now as I mentioned This this is a big journey for posts. They're coming from a very traditional business So a lot of that is involved in working with partners. So That's where we see the potential in that We also worked with the African Union Commission to identify these 10 countries so that they Spanned the continent and were representative of both the economic situation as well as the cultural situation on the continent and Together we identified those 10 countries to undertake this assessment in Perfect. That was another question. When you ask a question, please just state also who you are and from which organization You are I think that's easy. It was Walter first, please Walter and then we come here Thank you. Thank you very much. This is Walter Tresik the chairman of the consultative committee of the UPU Thank you very much for this very insides presentation from Zimbabwe post Also, thank you very much for the presentation of SAP It gives a very clear picture that out there is a huge change happening And it's obviously also gaining speed Looking at the chart up there on the screen partner to transform My question is very forward-looking now What can the UPU do better? What kind of resources? Important to the UPU What kind of additional partnerships might help to designated operators might help the wider sector players to better engage? Thank you. Who wants to take the question? I mean I can start maybe and then you follow up from from your point of view I think first of all you need to have people in the room like today, right? We need to talk we need to talk about things Which are relevant and just being in this venue today We already talked with UPU members about what we could possibly do in regards to the IPS system for example, right? Because we have a lot of the the same customers as well and to provide The the the most benefit out of both organizations I think we need to to just partner and and start with a conversation and see where that goes Yeah, and that's the initial step and now with these events meeting people in person that gets easier So that's the first step we can take and we will take and we see where the journey goes from there Okay, I think What UPU can do they have already begun? I think the processes like I mentioned earlier on in my presentation to say the issues of Digital technology the way It is evolving. It's it's fast and it becomes maybe difficult for the designated postal operators to keep pace and What? UPU is already doing to through telematics the dot post the IFS on the spaces that we are feeling is Designated operators that we are supposed to be taping into so that investment in Digital technologies Where different if designated operators can then tap into such technologies it makes life easier for do's to then participate in in Offering digital services, so I think the need for do's to embrace these technologies that Already UPU is doing I think it will go a long way and ensuring that we really improve in terms of service deliver and also to look into Efficient delivery systems that we can then also Improve on as far as the last mile delivery of these services is concerned between designated operators and also the operations readiness for for E-commerce programs for example, they ensure that people will culturally exchange information They exchange knowledge as they are part and parcel of such programs and it improves postal interoperability and also even Partnering private players as well Yeah, Walter. I think it's a great question I think you probably have some very interesting answers to this question as well as the chairman of the consultative committee But I think there's three issues that come to mind immediately for me in the context of Digital where where I'm working and the first is that what we are work what we are working to do is work with our partners in the governments To make them more aware as I've spoken to you before about the capabilities of post and also the importance of protecting Digital postal infrastructure as well once we all go digital then the criminals will be there And so we have to make sure we protect this digital postal infrastructure and cyber security and integration in national cybersecurity Agendas is really critical. The second is working with the industry who have solutions already And making sure that those solutions are adopted within the postal network And so you know this discussion around partners today as a stock mentioned is really vital And then the third thing is actually ensuring a Co-operation is is encouraged And that interfaces between the different stakeholders are developed and at the UPU we have API's we have a program of API's which is about integrating different solutions together in the e-commerce space to link it to the Postal network in the payment space to link it to postal payment services And in other areas as well And I really think that that is a practical concrete Outcome of a partnership not just signing an agreement to say you we're going to work together But actually building interfaces so the systems can integrate together Perfect. Thank you very much. Please. We need the microphone here in the front Hello, good morning to everyone. I am Nikola Truggan here representing syrup European committee for postal regulation Thank you for all presenters and their interesting contribution of my Interventions like remark and maybe a question. You'll see I Think I tried to follow the mindset of the governments and regulators and What's the problem? From my point of view, we have a lot of progress in the field postal operation technology But not in regulatory framework and a regulatory framework from UPL at least 25 years old We're talking about basic need pulse and services and it's very very hard To talk with the governments and how to include as a policymaker how to include digital services of postal network into the Appropriate regulatory framework. I think that UPU needs to take initiative in that field as well as European Commission on regional level because last directive was released in 2008 before smartphone is Establishing so I think that governments read the regulation and it's very hard to include digital services in regulatory framework And I think that we need a lot of progress in that field and that will help in implementation of This digitalization through the to the global portal network and for sure I think that we need to take initiative in at that level. So, thank you Thank you, please Paul. Yeah, I think it's a great comment from Nicholas and thank you for making that comment Just to say I don't have the solution at the moment But just to say we actually are embracing this within the UPU Nicholas and in fact We have an innovation forum being held this week in burn And one panel of the innovation forum within our operations council is discussing How can there be regulatory innovation or innovation in the regulatory space to actually open up a different approach to regulating and also how can regulators adopt technology to to Look at the market situation as well. So how can that help regulators be more adaptive? to innovations that are coming along and so It's a great comment. You might So the regulators follow the policy if we do not include digital service into the policy regulators are not policy makers So the governments are for me to make us. I think that and that's exactly why we are working at the policymaker level We're working on national digital strategies with the government so that policies are Adapted to the local assets that the governments actually have because in many other countries around the world This is still a public network And a public infrastructure and a critical public infrastructure has been shown during coven Last question around please Yeah, I think it just just to follow up to sorry my name's Graham Lee. I'm a personal policy specialist So follow up to Nicholas Question or comments. I mean, I think one of the problems I've worked in more than 75 Developing countries on postal projects and I think one of the big problems. It's great What you're doing Paul in terms of this digital readiness But for me one of the biggest problems that exists in developing countries is their postal readiness. They can't deliver postal services and I've just been working in Pakistan post and Pakistan post is pretty much lost all of their traditional mail to 270 courier operators, I think part of the problem there is that they have They have a law which says everything is a monopoly for Pakistan post But actually that's just been taken away because there is no regulation and there is no government policy So I think I think one of the things that the up you can do is is following on Nicholas comments about Working on policy at a high level, but also Doing far more work on getting posts Postal ready so that they can actually deliver the basic services because if they can't deliver basic services They're not going to be able to deliver any other kind of services either That's why I think also that maybe this cooperation or this these readiness programs can very much help actually in this process What what are the next steps just for the readiness program? You have studied and analyzed now 10 countries in Africa. There are many many more countries out there that probably need your help Are there any plans for the near future to analyze more countries or? Can you say maybe a few words just as an outlook? Yeah, thanks Bernard. So it's a demand-driven Program all of our readiness programs a demand-driven programs We have a series of readiness as has been mentioned. We have operational readiness free commerce We have a digital readiness. We have a payments readiness We're working also on sustainability readiness program So you will have a suite of readiness programs Which will be tools for policy makers and operators to improve and address some of the the points that have been made in questions today In terms of the digital readiness program then it's demand-driven. So we actually have a pipeline of New requests from member countries to actually come and do digital readiness assessments. These are presented to the ministry So they're at government policy level to answer some of the Request there. We are also now working in the Pacific We have a demand from the Pacific Islands and from small island developing states to undertake these assessments So we're excited actually by the response to this program that we've done in Africa And we see actually a long pipeline in different regions of the world that we can do these and integrate the post international strategies One very last question from Elma who was first. Okay, two more questions if they are brief because then we have to play Elma go first Former postal manager Graham's question just now Opened for me a can of worms of a real problem. He just said he's worked in a country Where the basic postal service seems to have been taken over by many many competitors So my question really is Apart from you keeping your jobs Why is it necessary to have the postal service in the long term? If it's possible for markets to take over. Why is it important and Not in terms of your jobs, but in terms of infrastructure in the country So the relevance of the post Okay, I think I'll take that one The post the way it was Established from from time immemorial you can look at in terms of location. There is No organization that has got the physical infrastructure is the post the experience of the logistic services it's closeness to the communities and With that kind of infrastructure With that kind of investment that has been done since time immemorial to ensure that the communities are saved both either on postal services on financial services On a number of services that the post can actually offer. There is no better organization Which has got a span of experience in terms of logistics as well than the post office So this post will remain relevant because of its physical infrastructure The tricky part about private players is that when they come in they will only save maybe Areas where it's profitable for them and they are marginalized communities that can be left behind In terms of access to these services and you then find that if the post is allowed to To die and it's not able to recuperate its cost in other commercial Locations then we have done a disservice to the communities because the post will stand For the commercial role for the social role and for the international role. I Think that's my I think that's That's quite clear as well. Maybe the microphone here. Thank you Good morning. Thank you very much. My name is chief Moyo. I'm the secretary general of the Pan-African Postal Union I would like to thank the panelists for their Presentations and interventions and thank you very much for that powerful presentation and Interventions I Want to come in with a small example Of Lionel Messi I'm sure we know he was a football player very good but Can Lionel Messi play American football? The answer probably is no because these two footballs we are talking about are different and Take that bring it to the postal sector the government Over the time developed their own understanding of what the sector is and the players the operators the regulators have their own understanding of what the postal sector can do and I am happy that from the presentations It's also coming out that there is a lot of marketing which is required so that everyone can be Singing from the same hymn book when we say Digitalization of the post and what it does the government doesn't look at it Like the post has lost its direction the issue is that the post is a platform They do not detect what people should be sending how they should be communicating But they make sure that the pipeline is always ready and fine-tuned to accommodate whatever the consumers want and whatever the citizens want and most importantly The post has to play the role of ensuring that it facilitates whether a straight Facilitation for SMEs whether it's government e services so that citizens can can enjoy so The post still has that role to play and then finally I would want to say that Looking at where we have come from it is really necessary to say the private sector the government The operators the regulators everyone has got a role to play We cannot substitute one for the other it is important that that collaboration happens in the spirit of knowing that each one has got a role to play and Therefore we should all thrive and to ensure that in our space where we operate we do it to the best of our abilities and Thank you for that. I do not have any further intervention I think there was a there was a good final statement for this Because no it really it really highlighted very much actually That this role of the post is very often forgotten Even after COVID after the pandemic when when we really saw how important the infrastructure is or when we hear for example that okay but privates Competitors come in they are cherry picking of course So it's it's not really the society that benefits at a large in the end So but maybe also taking from the three presentations what I've heard maybe what we need as well here when we talk about partnerships and today We talk about partnerships What we need as well is maybe a partnership a new partnership between the post and the government because there's this missing Understanding on the government side very often. Hey, there is a partner out there that can do the job for me That can do the job Maybe it needs a push into more digital Into more digital tools into into becoming digitally ready to provide a lot of different services that the government needs But the partners out there. It's the posts. So I would like to thank our three panelists in this first session We have a ten minute break and start again at 11 o'clock shop