 We are really urging folks who maybe are looking at the building at the market slowing down a little bit to look for opportunities to prepare to build the relationships. Welcome to the Smarter Building Materials Marketing podcast, helping you find better ways to grow leads, sales and outperform your competition. All right, everybody, welcome to Smarter Building Materials Marketing, where we believe your online presence should be your best salesperson. I am Zach Williams, alongside my co-host Beth Pompiglove. We've got a stellar show lined up for you today. We are really excited to welcome Tom Connelly to the show. He is the president and CEO of High Point Market, which is one of the premier events in the building products industry that happens twice a year. Tom, thank you so much for your time. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Tom, before we jump in, can you just give us a high level view of what High Point Market is and what your role is there? Sure. Well, the High Point Market, as you said in the intro, is a twice a year trade show here in High Point, North Carolina. It is probably one of the more unique trade shows in the world in that it's spread out over 13 square blocks and has 180 buildings. And there are literally over 100 different building owners. So it's a real circus. We like to refer to it sometimes as herding cats, but it really is a fun kind of environment spread out over a large geography. And we have a wonderful global audience. We have buyers from over 100 different countries. We have designers. We have architects. We have, of course, retailers, e-tailers. And we hope to get more of your listeners and yours to come to our market. We think the time is right. I mean, that's why we're on the show today right now, Tom. Like, I want an invitation because it's a close event, right? Question 1. It's a closed event. That's right. And so we are really urging folks who maybe are looking at the market slowing down a little bit to look for opportunities to prepare to build the relationship. So when the market picks back up, they'll be poised and can make things work. Our position, and we've seen things change pretty dramatically over the last few years, but our position is that if you will, any kind of redevelopment or even new construction is sort of this massive orchestra, there's so many different different players, people, businesses, professionals that are making it work. But what we're seeing is the designer becomes more and more important into this whole process because the designer is getting involved earlier on. No longer is the designer brought in when the structure is finished or when the rehab is finished or when the addition is finished. They're brought in and they're partnering with the general contractor, they're partnering with the architect, and they're specifying a lot of different products. And so it's really important that I think all the building materials folks understand that and begin to build those relationships so that their products can be specified. Well, I think you bring up a good point here, Tom, which is something we've talked about before in the podcast, which is the role of the interior designer is no longer just about the interior. Like we've talked about this where we've seen interior designers who are consulting on how a family who may, like you said, might be designing a new home or doing renovation. It's thinking about how the family moves from the inside of the living space to the outside and what materials are chosen, not just a couch or something like that, but actual building products are chosen in the different spaces too. And so that's part of the reason why I was really excited to have you on this on the podcast is just to share with us. What are you seeing in reference to architects and designers? How are things changing in the way that they source materials and more importantly, like what you just talked about, how is their role in these renovations and in this new construction changing? Well, you hit it right out of the head, Zach, in that you're seeing people being viewed as a family unit or as couples and you're seeing how they live their life and how they move through different rooms and what their needs are. There's been an explosion in the outdoor as living space, whether it be a small deck if you live in a big city, a huge backyard, whatever, so that the designer is being asked to consider not only the movements of the individuals, but the environment with a huge emphasis now on green and going green, staying green, renewable, reusable. So the designer is becoming very important, as you said, in specifying those materials and specifying everything from the inside of the home to the outside of the home and everything in between. It's a really evolutionary kind of a process that we've seen taking place over the past five, six, seven years. Tom, is there anything that you've seen people who are exhibiting at the High Point Market due to respond to the shift of how interior designers are now a part of the process sooner rather than later? Well, I think one of the big things that we've seen, I think it's important for everybody to understand that we're not a booth show. Most of our space is huge permanent space. We're that way for a whole bunch of reasons. But the old way of displaying product was sort of the manufacturer slash importer, pilot high and let it fly. That's not the case. You're seeing products that are designed in a vignette style and there are multiple vignettes created in these massive showrooms so that, in fact, all of the issues that the designer faces can be dealt with by that manufacturer. You're seeing partnerships with manufacturers or importers who have certain unique products. They're bringing in other products to complete that vignette so that when the designer walks in, they can see how that particular exhibitors product plays well with the other products. So we're seeing a much more cohesive, unified approach to solving the issues that the designer is facing. It's much more about solving problems than it is about selling products. How have things changed since COVID, Tom? Are you seeing a change in the way that designers and architects source material and what they're looking for from manufacturers? COVID has really changed the way people communicate. This whole idea of being able to reach folks through multi-media, whether it be social, whether it be electronic media, whatever, has given the buyer and the seller an opportunity to meet in many different ways. Lots of opportunity to learn and to grow. We believe that there is a need for face-to-face interaction, especially when you're looking at product like our industry represents. Colors, size, how well it sits, how well it feels. A lot of that, frankly, just can't be done online. But I will tell you that the trade show business, especially even in our business, is being threatened because folks don't need as many interactions. This industry is full of trade shows. What we're fighting for not only is a bigger share of the buyers to come to our market, but we want to make sure that we get our voice out there to all aspects of the industry who can use our show so that it can continue. We've been around 112 years and we want to continue for another 112 years. Are there ways that you're seeing digital and in-person? Obviously, we're a digital agency, Tom, but we're big believers in in-person. I mean, there's just something special that happens. And to your point, we know designers and architects, they always want to get their hands on material. It's just different in person because their customers are going to interact with that material in person, so they need to be that checkpoint. So let me go back then. Are there ways that you're seeing what's happening throughout the year digitally come to light or be complementary to what you guys are doing at your in-person events twice a year? Yeah, and you know, we looked very hard about whether we should be involved in the digital side. Because of our unique make-up, we decided not to. But that digital need has been filled by a lot of others in the industry, whether it be publications or whether it be producers or whether it be educators every day in my in-basket, that I get four or five emails about a digital opportunity. And so I think the challenge for the audience is who delivers the best value, how much time can they afford to spend. I think that the whole digital experience is critical. It will grow in its utilization. It's just a question of balance and how much balance depends on the user, what he or she needs for their particular time. You know, designers, architects, builders, they're sort of situational. They've got a project. And so what they need for that project will vary from, say, a retailer who is constantly selling and then restocking and selling. So I think that the digital aspect of the business is much more beneficial to the building industry, to designers, to folks that are project-based than necessarily those that are just sort of rinse and repeat, so to speak. OK, I need you to tell me the truth. You guys decided not to do digital trade shows. Did you all high-five each other at the end of the 2020 when you saw how poorly they went for everybody else? Well, you know, the other thing is we're funded. We get a lot of funding by local governments who are very interested in seeing that that travel dollar come and being spent in high point. So if we went digital, we probably would have lost our funding, quite frankly. Tom, I do I mean, I do want to talk about e-commerce for a second because you mentioned e-commerce and e-tailers coming to your event and finding products. One thing we hear from manufacturers is that e-commerce is something that happens from a D to C standpoint, direct to consumer, let's say the homeowner or something like that. But one thing we're seeing with architects is that they do care about the ability to purchase online, even if they're having, let's say, the homeowner make the actual purchase. Are you seeing a shift at all and how designers and architects, not just find products and choose them but actually purchase as well with this rise in e-tailers online? Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, we've sort of got a standing joke here that if you if you talk to one designer about his or her e-commerce side of the way they do business, then that's a model for that one designer. There's the models are so diverse as are the people that are out there out there doing it. Part of that has to do with pricing, quite frankly, being able to establish what is that internet price, what is, how is that designer and or architect going to get paid? Are they going to take a commission? Are they going to mark it up? I mean, I think the days you mentioned D to C and that's absolutely correct, unless you're the ultra ultra high end and you really don't care about the money and you're not going to shop it, very many of these clients, even though they're using a designer, they want to know that they're getting a fair price, maybe not the best price, but they want to make sure that they're getting a fair price on that product. And I talk to designers every day and they have to be prepared for when they're shopped on the internet against something that they're proposing for a particular project. And how do they combat that? What are they doing? Are they like prefacing it to their homeowner or what are they doing to get it? Yeah. Well, once again, everybody's got a different model. But I think I think what what I've learned by going to seminars and listening to designers, both in person and online, is that most of the successful designers when they sit and interview the potential client, when they decide whether they want to work with that client, then they go through a whole checklist of how they work and how they get paid. So the the buzzword these days seems to be transparency. Everybody understands that every step of the supply chain, you have to make money. I don't think any any consumer would argue that it's it's how big is the margin. So if if they're very candid about the fact that, look, I'm going to sell it to you at my price plus 10 or my place price plus plus 20. Or I'm going to sell it to you at the best price. If you can find it better online, I'll refund the the difference. In many cases, they sell it to them for the price that they're paid and they show them the invoice and they just charge them by the hour for everything, you know, so there's a whole different way that they can bundle their their list of services and that applies all the way down to the building materials to so whatever anybody's buying, there's always seems to be a better price or a substitute. And I think they have to be able to describe the quality of the product if they're proposing a product that maybe somebody can find something similar online. But the but there's a reason why you're specifying it. You're specifying it because of the quality or you're specifying it because of the look or the color or the wearability or whatever. It does make the designers job very difficult to be honest with you. Are you finding that architects and designers are coming to your show, Tom, knowing what they want to look at, like are they doing a bunch of research in advance and a lot of product discovery or they coming to go, I want to find something that I've never seen. The reason why I'm asking is because a lot of manufacturers are wondering how much prep should I be doing in advance to educate my audience around my product to get them in my booth? Yeah, that's a great, great question. And you know, my personal bias is that the manufacturer does a wonderful job of educating, tries to set appointments. Nobody shows up on time for appointments. That's the problem they show up even on the even on the same day that they promised to come by. But making sure that you are courting your clients new and existing to come to see you is critical. One of my biggest complaints is that most folks are so busy at shows that they don't allow for the opportunity just to wander. And that and by wandering, you'll find new product, new ideas. That's really, really critical. Networking is also very critical, finding other people that have similar situations and being able to talk to them, find out what's going on. And probably the number one thing that we're seeing in designers and architects because they are, for the most part, called on by reps. And unfortunately, in our business, the rep is probably the weakest link. And now I'm probably going to get bombed tonight. But the rep is the weakest link in the supply chain. A lot of these folks are older. They've been doing it one way. The commissions are not as big when they're selling the designers or the architects because they used to sell in retailers with connected car loads. But the fact of the matter is, is that the rep doesn't always give you the right information. The rep doesn't always help you in the way that you should. And so what I'm finding is the real successful folks that come to market the principles of that company, try to talk to the principles of the suppliers, and they're talking about business issues. And then they send their staff to look for new products. So they really break up the, you know, what's important. So you've got education, you've got relationships, and then you've got the new product. All three are equally important. It just depends on who's doing what to whom, you know, that was awesome. It's great. Yeah. Tom, this has been excellent. I appreciate you taking time away from your busy schedule to meet with us. If someone wants to connect with you or reach out, what's the best way for them to do that? Yeah, I'm a Tom at highpointmarket.org. It's a dot or or G because we're a nonprofit organization. Our whole reason for being is to recruit and retain the buyers. And then we run the infrastructure of the market. But at the, at the top of the show, we had talked about all these different buildings and building owners. So we're sort of try to be, I won't say the glue, but we're the quicksand that holds everybody together. So we do the infrastructure, the registration, the pre reg onsite registration, transportation, all that good, good stuff. We don't we don't know any buildings. We don't sell any space. Hurts our top line, but really helps us many times to be friends with everybody that way, you know, amazing. Tom, man, thank you so much again for coming on the show. And for our listeners, if you enjoyed this podcast, make sure you go to venue.com slash podcast to subscribe and get more. Until next time, I'm Zach Williams, alongside Beth Popnikov. Thanks everybody.