 seventh August seventh order list tonight my left is flow Smith my right is Joe Stobb Torn Helsen and this also is Diane Isabel tours are acting at town administrator. Any additions or changes to it? I would like to add update on further coverage. Anything else? Public comment? Hearing none? Priority Department merger public hearing. Would like to see what the public thinks about the merger of the prior department of the town. Any comments? Questions? Yes sir. How long is this going to last? But that how long is the meeting going to last? Well this part did not very long but the rest of it probably pretty lengthy. Okay. Any thoughts there Joe? No I guess we probably started out several several years ago this was something a topic that was like the select board and board of directors in the corporation fire department have had these discussions. They did a group together to do some of the research on you know the pros and cons basically. What I can say just giving you some history of the fire department many years ago when Berlin was nothing more than a few few farms up on the hill and there was a few barn fires that occurred. Montpelier or Berry was the one that's going to be responding I believe it was Montpelier primarily and we lost a few farms up here. I do believe the farm community got together with the town and was asking about putting together a fire department at that point. The town had I guess no desire at that point. This is back in 1950s. So the community got together and put together the Berlin volunteer fire department that's how it started. Since the 1950s and now you go driving around you're going to find that the community of Berlin is not the same. You know currently somewhere around 76 miles of road 19 of it I believe is interstate another 16 state highways and over 50 town highways miles of town highways. You have vulnerable population you have a state hospital you have a regular hospital you have three nursing homes and five places of worship. You have strip malls regular malls the place is grown and continues to grow. I think not just the fire department I'm gonna say some of the parts of the municipality struggles to keep up with the growth. Now this this a merger would a merger be the cure-all I'm gonna say not but it opens up opportunities and the sharing of resources some of which you could you could find a savings but I think in the end you're not gonna find a great savings if this was merged. If anyone thought that there was money to be saved I'm gonna say you're sadly lacking but currently you have 20 some odd people part of the corporation that are at least on paper and a small contingency who is your responders some of which are sitting here right now okay those are the people that are leaving their work those are the people that are getting up in the middle of the night to get dressed to go to the station to respond to something and again is this a cure-all no it's not it just opens up opportunity I see I don't know if that's gonna spark conversation yes I was just wondering how you think that Berlin is growing well I'm not gonna say on residential side you have somewhere between 28 to 29 hundred residents you know lead their heads here daytime population during Monday through Friday you're somewhere between 10 to 12,000 it's growing commercially I think we're probably gonna be talking about some of that probably today you know with school populations down I know that yeah that's that's your your nighttime your you know human weighing their beds you know weighing their heads down at at night the biggest part in my eyes is the commercial growth I mean in addition to what you know Joe mentioned that we have an airport we have you know train tracks that run through here but just the number of businesses we have you know mental health and substance abuse facilities we have you know just a lot of commercial expansion that that's where it's that's where I see the growth I mean if you compare a picture to route 302 today to you know whenever back in the 1950s you're gonna see a big difference I know there's different level of firefighter certifications but what is the training required to reach each of the levels not to put you on the spot so how many hours of practical in class correct you're gonna start right off with probably somewhere around 237 hours for your fire one certification is it a requirement that would be your basic we don't require all our firefighters that's a big commitment you know you're talking about the people who are volunteering are people who may have second jobs they may be single parents even if they are part of a household with two adults and two incomes you know there there's a huge time commitment not just for reaching that certification level but to well maintain it as well as maintain buildings and trucks and doing the calls the call volume and then the fast-quad the merchant medicals of different that is set of praying that you have to go through that's true so there's a very basic level of care call it a certification it's a license but if you're getting into an EMS certification you know that's one that's very costly I can't tell you the exact number of hours but that's anywhere between 700 to 1200 dollars for the course before you even test out with the state that's a huge time commitment and those funds that pay for those those courses it's either on the individual or on the department itself yes actually sorry he's on the charge I haven't heard any dollar figure how much the merchant would be well realistically right now the town is paying for the fire department through there through the appropriations so there wouldn't be any my vision I wouldn't see any great expansion of that or I wouldn't see a decrease in it either the only thing that you might see savings on is the accounting that all go through the treasure instead of being done by a separate accountant for the hop for the fire department as far as to take and have the fire department stay in the way it is I'm sure their costs are going to go up just from the nature of the business just like everybody else's costs are going up and but I don't see it be any great increase in the expense to the town we're already paying for can I ask a question sure because he mentioned opening up an opportunity to share resources now I'm taking that to mean with my pillow or with Barry are you talking about sharing down the line are you talking about sharing that's mostly for the town offices so there won't be any expanding or combining with would be other towns around that's not that I've heard but I heard no you have to ask Joe yeah that that's the main thing with me is because then once it gets out of the town it's out of our control it's you know takes everybody else into people like to spend money like crazy well it was a long time ago we did take and have a committee that with Barry Montpelier very town in Berlin but we looked into that and the problems were that it was like a 20% increase to the budget and join in with those other towns and I just you know I was on the board at that time and I just didn't feel that the other towns had the same commitment to public safety that we had we you know we had one of the other mayor saying well if I need somebody else to pay for my fire department I'm all in favor of it well that was that was a deal breaker right there for me and Berlin was the first time to to drop out of that they're still struggling to this day you know they narrowed it much down to dispatching and they're still struggling with that and I spent all the money they have and are no closer to achieving that urge or than they were 10 years ago the only ones that are left in that group is Barry Montpelier Berlin in the very town both so how many how many of responses do we do a year to the fires we'll call them fire calls fire calls okay so fire calls you have a well you know true fires are very small yeah but you have a lot of motor vehicle accidents hazmat calls alarm activations you know those those types of calls are quite high and I'm gonna say you're a little over 500 I think you had a hand up down here I answer this one to mention the I'm Joe was talking about the growths and you know the 50s with people here when I joined this fire department 1973 they have a lot of members and we also had maybe maybe 80 to 100 calls the year because there wasn't that much going on but now up to 500 and then all you know calls the year the trucks still have to roll the people you know you people still want to have somebody come to your home you know regardless of what it is and it takes people to do that with and all I'm saying is that yes it has grown a lot and you know this the manpower is I think the biggest problem right now along with every other entity in the state of Vermont and New York or wherever you might live there there's not enough people to do the work and this in the fire department is just a small piece of that pie so you know the only thing that I could see that you might say you could have a savings is maybe on insurance you know a talent insurance more you know a workers comp insurance you know maybe your your vehicle insurance but other than that the building is still gonna cost the same to run the manpower is gonna cost the same to train the fuel is gonna cost the same to buy and you know and I'm not you know maybe you might have to you know maybe Joe's a town employee next time but that that's the price you pay you know if you you know I was never a fire chief and I can attest that being the fire chief in the town of Berlin is at least a 40 to 60 hour a week job just being the fire chief and that's not and that's not including calls and whatnot he's on duty that much time and you know I don't know I for one you know I was ten years ago I was kind of against it but I for one is you know I can almost see the time it's it's it's almost time to to relinquish that realm if you will and as far as help from to Barry and Montpelier or or send it off to Capalifier Mutual Aid is help to from Barry and from Montpelier they all that's that's they leave everybody washes their own hands and you know if you don't understand that that's that's what it's all about and if you can't understand that that's that's where your resources are coming from it isn't that the truck is going to end up in very city forever they maybe end up in very city per day or night or whatever but that's the way it works they may come here and so if you can if you can absorb that then you then you can make strides forward and having a good conversation about this this idea yes so I guess I need some more specifics we try understand the motivation for bringing this forward right now is because there's not a fired department staff because the calls are increasing it's not a savings and neither you're saying that it's necessarily going to cost us a lot more so what's the motivation for bringing it forward right now what's the game the Joe becomes a town employee the accounting is done by the town is that really what we're talking about pretty much but I'm not saying I'm going to become a town employee well it isn't up to you what I am going to say is relying on some of those resources from the town we talk about accounting because that was the first thing that we outsourced that five years ago something like that and that costs cost greatly I mean when we first did it it was $900 a month now it's nearly 12 and I see it on the administrative side I've seen in going back to the treasurer treasurer portion prior to outsourcing it we were taking care of we had volunteers doing their best to to balance the books of a quarter million dollar budget and shame on us if we we missed you know lost a couple dollars or whatever that might have been okay but these are volunteers and so you know couldn't afford that anymore and went this room I see it a benefit for the fire department on the administrative side because I have been sitting I was president or vice president for nearly eight years in my time in that department so I've seen all of that I have worked as I am now the assistant treasurer because well one we don't have a lot of volunteers so we will wear multiple hats and again like Rod said it's an enormous amount of time even before you put your gear on to go to a cop and if we miss something then that could be a liability for somebody on that department so expanding on that looking ahead we're talking about having town employees handle the administration are are you also looking ahead to the actual staff becoming town employees in such a way to hopefully facilitate more participants on your on your squads because clearly that's a problem right as I understand it there are not really enough staff people is that right we do our best I understand that and I felt that from the get-go and when I knew I could count on this department certainly but I just want in order to go forward and really understand this major change I really want to understand the motivation and what all entities I think you have to look also at is the town capable of at this present time of handling the administration but then also is the town capable I wonder if you looked at this of managing a huge force of him a larger force of employees which would be a big change sure and I think part of this it like is looking towards the future you know we do have a lot of projects coming up Tom's gonna talk about the Berman common time center improvements coming up we've got new housing coming in with the Fox run and it's not just a matter of today but looking towards the future positioning ourselves to be successful in the future and it may even should come into that we start looking at a hybrid model of fire department where we have some paid employees and you know it's the still volunteer force I know that's very common in a lot of other fire departments today but I think we need to position ourselves that well over do it yep yes Matthew hey sorry I'm having to take your dinner as I participate tonight that's not actually smoke saying um so just I guess my way of introduction for others in the in the crowd my name's Matthew Romeo I currently serve as deputy fire chief for Berlin I've also for the last six years been a department head in one of two different law enforcement agencies and as a full-time job so I can tell you the one of the challenges that we routinely face in the fire service and in law enforcement and public safety there is a long arc to expansion so when we start looking at the risk profile for the town of Berlin and we just did our ISO we just made it through our ISO audit every 10 year audit of the department we were able to maintain the same rating we had before which is the same rating as the city of Montpelier by the way they class for ISO rating and we're pretty proud of that we can't maintain that for the next in our current model I'll I'll go ahead and just make that as a statement because there is no possible way administratively or functionally that we can maintain that level of performance the risk profile for the town of Berlin has three nursing homes a mall countless commercial properties a hotel and airport the hospital and the reality of it is today that we are in best cases 10 minutes getting a truck out the door and I don't know that I'm real comfortable with that risk analysis that goes into that but I but I also recognize that the arc of change in an organization such as ours is very long so I think that's part of the reason that we have to start talking about this transition now it's 61 half dozen the other really when you get down to it if you want to have a municipal volunteer fire department or you want to have a privately owned volunteer fire department I will say the administrative burden is enormous of the public safety agency right now and then when you add something like the flooding that we experienced a couple of weeks ago it's turned into a full-time job for one person in this room that I don't think he was really excited to have but you know that's that's the enormous burden to shoulder in a in all volunteer department it's especially burdensome when you have an entirely different set of parameters for reimbursement from FEMA for bookkeeping for all of those little items that that go into responding to a major disaster like that and you know I do see absolute benefits and absolute savings in things like insurance and administration and bookkeeping and all those those little things that that add up very quickly so that's why personally I don't speak on behalf of the department tonight I speak on behalf of myself my household as a resident of down in Berlin I support a transition to a municipal volunteer department and then I think we really have to start having the serious discussions about how do we transition away from the all volunteer model into a mixed model approach so that we can continue to manage the risk that exists in the town of Berlin thank you for your time congratulations to you Matthew thanks right real little something to pay for about you anything else here I sure can attest to the changes that we have gone through but I also like to have the people in town realize I believe our last inventory was over a million dollars of equipment and buildings correct that's a big chunk of pie to give to the town and I would like to see if it if this happens or some recognition can go back to Rod and Peter Albie Lewis especially some recognition could go back to these people that brought this to what it is today our retention I've noticed over the years back in Peter I'm gonna wish for Rod Peter we could retain people that were interested in it and they were around 15 20 years today you get somebody that comes in takes so long to get the training and the requirements in they're kind of burned out before they start and yes firemen like to go to fire there's no no getting around that and the fire load has gone down and it's become the EMS it has become accidents so yes we do need some changes but we also need to keep retention as you can see in the police department that's hard to do it's hard to do in the fire service even harder I see new faces coming up in the fire department here in this room and I hope they pan out and put some time in and not get discouraged by the red tape that's going to happen but I would like the town to realize that that firehouse was built in 1988 and 89 and at that time the value of the building was approximately $380,000 of that I believe town gave us either 125 or 150 toward the building the rest was done by the volunteers and it was done by people in the community working together bringing crews in for nothing and to get that building built so there's a lot of history here that's going to hurt if it's given away I guess I'm an old-time member and it isn't old-timer in my thoughts but you still need the firefighter it's got time in it's going to crawl in on his hands and knees through heat and smoke dark do a search for people the new people here that's great you're probably never going to have to do it in your lifetime but you have to be ready to do it and it can happen in an instant and I for one can see the advantage administratively heaven help and also it's got to be worked out so you get retained keep retention I guess thank you for your time and anything else on this I just if I can I'm a resident of the town of Berlin and I also happen to be a firefighter in East Wampere which is an interesting story that chief was here when I wanted to be a firefighter I would be working for our current chief but that is an aside I will say as a firefighter the town of Berlin is extremely fortunate to have the team that they have I work with them in mutual aid calls often you guys have first-rate people first-rate equipment they show up they do their job they'll come to East Wampere anytime we call them obviously we come here but my question chief is looking at operational issues going forward if this is to happen how many years down the road down the on ramp do you think it'll be before you actually transition to the mixed approach of having some four higher firefighters and some volunteers I think that all depends on what these next few months you know might come out of these next few months could you could you have a mix of some sort in the next few years I'm gonna say you can but I think just further for the timeline if this was if it was found to be a positive moving in that direction it would then go to the town for a vote and then you got the whole next cycle before that would even be implemented so honestly you're 20 some odd months out before you can even really think about having a position and also just this information Berlin is not the only town looking at this is a potential option so we're hearing the same noises with the select board in East Montpelier so it's hit I personally as a lifelong risk manager if I was the fire chief I would rather be aligned with the town from a liability standpoint from a support standpoint yeah I think it's a good move and as a resident I totally support it thank you any other comments on this okay hearing none I'll close the close the public hearing and now we'll have a discussion of the appointment of the steering committee on the merger or at least look at your thoughts on number who's the state well no matter what I mean you get a bunch of residents which would be on it one resident someone from the management of the fire department simply because they have a better understanding of the working I would think one member from the select board and how many people you were thinking on this but say if you have a steering committee of five to seven you've got to have rest of them I would say to be residents and business community yeah because they not may not be resident but they're definitely a stakeholder well the thing with one of the troubles you have looking at the businesses is that they have no say but they pay a lot of the freight so they're a stakeholder they are so I don't think we should forget that I don't know who you would approach for that I mean granted we're still in the first public hearing on this is the first time we've really discussed it and open other times we've had it born and nobody showed up the we're not gonna be I don't think tonight we'll be able to to appoint anybody I think tonight we need to take and get the get some interest in this and see what people want to do so submit a letter of interest yeah I don't know just to take and get the ball rolling get this discussion going this is the first step I mean it's not gonna happen tomorrow that's for sure and I don't foresee it much happening you know probably it's gonna take close to a year to take and get some sort of plan going and look what it took took almost 18 months two years that for the for the but then we get numbers for the merger with mom put in Mary so that's that's that's one thing for a time of course I could be entirely wrong so I would like to take and encourage people to apply and that's for sure and but and then also if you don't have time to apply or you don't have time to do this see if you can think of any way who does and make sure you tell them that you know we are looking for people from this committee is there anything else like this so what exactly would you say to to apply you want better to who should we address it to the time this time administrator at Berlin BT dot anything to add Matt I strongly encourage you to limit the size of the committee you get very large and it gets very unwieldy and tough to get a quorum and and all of those kind of things kicking it around as I'm prone to do at 3 o'clock in the morning staring at the ceiling I'd suggested a resident a business representative a member of the fire department a member of the corporation you know angler two different kind of reference points and a member of the select that was just my my my thoughts you're saying basically a fireman so there's no point in for following the agenda here so I don't see any of our point in having you an appointment till we get some people who are interested in it so do you have a date that you would like to have those letters letters of interest I would say in three weeks and then we'll have the we'll take and do it on the first meeting September yeah that's that's well the rest of the select board and then yeah this is Nick Karabacic I'm a resident in town of Berlin been a resident for 25 years also a number of the Berlin fire department been a member of the department for 30 years and one I am interested in being on your committee just for comment as I wasn't able to say a few words before I believe we're at a point in time with the town with the call volume and the need for professional educated firefighters to be responding to handle emergency situations with the time commitment and the needs for a volunteer well we are at a point my belief is that we do start looking to go to pay help with our department whether we keep it private organization or we go to the town for this one player the other it's time to start staffing our station to handle the call volume and to make our people available to handle the town needs as they're coming in the town is growing this is little Williston that we have right here in town and the number of alarm activations our department is responsible for the car accidents on the interstate there's a lot of demand on the staff of our volunteers and we want you to want educated people showing up at your scenes and so there's the need for some full hire rate of professionalism and we have so much administrative work within the department that we need some paid staffing in our department to handle some of that administrative work and again whether we stay private organization or we join the town one way or the other I'm sorry but I believe the price tags got to go up for our services and and we need to start paying staffing to handle everything that's involved with us being being with the fire department so I have pros and cons for merging with the town and staying as a private corporation but keeping it short and to the point I would also ask that you monitor your questions on the computer system I do believe some other people may have some questions thank you there looks like there is at least one comment in the chat Joe that that was by myself I'm Mary Ellen I too am a town resident and I'm also a firefighter in the town of Berlin and I actually started my fire service at the age of 16 I'm now 43 but I have actually been through the process of one the town of Barry was transferred over to the municipal department and I'm curious who is going to be the deciding factor who's going to be on that committee would be bored so that's that question I would say it would be the select board the entire select board or do does anybody like recuse themselves if they're also part of the fire department everybody gets a fair shot to be on that well I don't know if Joe actually a conflict of interest for him to recuse but I would say if people are object to it we can take the other four members are you saying that you had an objection to Joe being on it or no that's not all I'm saying I'm just trying to keep it open and open-minded yeah and get answers first along some other people who have certain questions that can't be here's one asking the question yeah that's not a problem but I can I can understand having Joe recuse himself simply because he's close to the fire department so any other question any others yes just one other comment thinking about the steering committee I'm not raising my hand thinking that it seems to me I understand not having it be a large committee and to make it unwieldy but it seems to residents Berlin is a very very town it seems that it would be reasonable to have two residents not just one resident so two residents representing that community one person you mentioned for the business community but it seems like the resident committee the community should be represented by two people in my head well I mean realistically one of the problems we want to have I think it's getting enough people for the for the fight that's very true that man but it is right there exactly but I mean I can I can I can understand going to seven yeah I understand seven anything else on this yes I would recommend seven because then you have to from every party three from the town with one being business and the other comments on this if not we will take a new one to the expect well wait everybody all right I'm bored about passing over that look you in discussion from site visit around mill during the night. You're a great other. Thank you all for being with me. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's a $645, so maybe you'll come in as he sees others moving. Well, let's take a talk about Highway 74. That's the short one from Route 12 to the railroad right away. There was no, we've sent out notes twice those folks they haven't showed up so basically it it's a safety issue with the trucks backing out into 12 on the corner just no room so any other just any other comments on this so tell me the difference between the class 4 and trail can be blocked off okay no money's required no money comes from the snake on either one you can limit it you can block it off to motor vehicles you can block it off to I don't know if you can block it off to pedestrians you might be able to do that on a certain time of the year for damage control that's a trip that's a trip so class 4 it's open to the traveling public just no maintenance no maintenance from the time from the time the town is not obligated to book may edit solar discretion provides summer maintenance entry move obstruction says necessary for the public good town shall not provide any winter maintenance on class 4 may provide summer summer may provide summer maintenance at its discretion and we can't always allow people to maintain the road that's a commission for repair maintenance improvement or restoring shall not be reasonably without but the select board any other things on the highway 74 in that being at the railroad cross is that we're not obligated to do anything notify the rail that it's been thrown up I mean well we're not throwing it up sorry changing classifications that shouldn't make any difference okay good going from a class 3 to a class 4 so all we're doing is taking away the maintenance of that hundred feet I guess it is or so this is the first time I've gone from a class 3 to class 4 I've gone class 4 to trail before so I'm not sure what the client points are as far as the boat the notification I'm assuming we can we vote to turn it into a class 4 and then make sure the residents know that they're going to have to plow the rest of the driveway so any any other thoughts on this so if you're teaching if we were to change it to a class 4 we still have to hold another hearing where's this our this is our first hearing yeah okay we held the hearing right okay we think different about this one is lose but I've looked at the look at the did the site visits so what's your pleasure here I guess I'm in favor of reclassifying this class 4 and I'm not opposed to moving it from a class 3 to a class 4 based on both the hearing that we've already had in the site visit this evening it seems like the viable alternative well I mean just from a safety standpoint I don't I have I have issues with the trucks backing out onto a state road just north of Roche is too busy busy too old problem state road at that location with the curb and the speeds and everything well the other option is also to plow with a pickup truck but you get pull somebody off big truck put them in a pickup truck so it's not like we don't have an option it's time the only way to take it to take and alleviate that time constraint is if you hire someone to just run the pick up and that's time that they're not well you know it's not plowing you the other roads right right but if you if you if you go from a four-man crew to a five or a four-and-a-half-man crew other than you can have that road plowed in a pickup which still the same problem with backing out into the group 12 pick up might be a little more graceful at it but it's still it's still gonna be a problem whereas if if you have the residents hiring they start plowing from route 12 up to the house turn around and then plow on their way out then they're facing into traffic not backing any thoughts I based on our discussion in our site visit and everything that I after said I make the motion to move town highway 74 from a class 3 to a class 4 row oh second any further discussion those in favor I motion carries and since our president isn't here he was at the he was at the site visit you made it clear to him that we're gonna be discussing this so any I guess I would feel better tabling Brownsville extension give another opportunity to publicly state his concerns concerns is that put forth as a motion I was a motion sir and I second that okay so we have a motion to table list the next meeting all those and any any further discussion all those in favor all right motion carries and public works for discussion that wrong good evening everybody okay so I'm on the agenda here to talk about the disolvenment of our public works we discussed this at the last meeting we had some more and it's I think we're in agreement that's a little premature for us to dissolve our public works board at this time if there's a lot a lot of projects going on not that we don't think it is getting time for Berlin to consider a public works department and which would which would make our public works board kind of obsolete but there's no public works department right now and we you know we do have a public works supervisor we hired well the select board hired one in January Craig's very good so the board really is a good place for him to come and talk about issues with the sewer and water and and the board actually has a lot of history with with sewer and water it would be good for the select board to know a little bit more about I think what's going on the sewer and water and that that could be one of two ways perhaps a board member could attend a meeting some or I could come in once a month maybe or once every couple months and update on projects or something like that so I guess at this point not really I mean it's up to you folks I guess whether you want to dissolve the public works board or not but I I think we're it would be good for us to stay on for at least till the end of the year anyway that and then I would get Craig a full year in in his position at least yeah yeah yeah I'd have to agree with you you know I worked and talked with Craig a couple different times worked with him with a with the last water may break if nothing else if you're the support group for him he needs that I think it's a little early to probably disband that would be my opinion and we got some great expertise on public works for the drop to long and Bob lunch and bring a wealth of knowledge yeah we have a good board right we only have four members it's a five-member board that's one we've had trouble recruiting members and keeping members but I think we're we're pretty solid right now with four people but and and I don't know how much longer tour can stay there and do two jobs at once but three jobs but if I could take a moment I'd just like to update on a couple of important projects that sure that we had when one one is referred to refer to it as a hospital Hill sewer line there's that line that goes past the hospital down next to the highway it's it's uphill upstream from that power station that's that's down there and I don't know if the board's all aware but we had a little bit of a failure there last year it's really land movement that bank that sewer line is in the bank and the bank slid a little bit so we got it we got a consulting engineer and they've come and look they came and looked at it and did a lot of thought and planning or analysis or whatever and and have told us that it'd be over two million dollars to really repair that a couple of things going on there that loose that little ditch that road ditch I call it a dish but environmental conservation says it's a string so that stream has downgraded you know how streams work it's cuts it's eroded down so it made that bank unstable and it slid a little bit fortunately it was between manholes and the pipe just the pipe plug somehow I'm not sure exactly what happened but at the time we got it unplugged and it's continued to flow fine since then but it is it is very precarious and that that's and fortunately in this last all this rain we got you know across our fingers knock on wood it didn't it didn't cause any more slippage there but part of the repair is to bring that stream ditch back up probably five or six feet and and replace the line between the two manholes and do some bank stabilization there to stabilize that but just so the board knows that's a very that's very concerning to the public works board because all the sewer collected on this hill goes through that line down down to our pump station that sends it to Montpelier so with that we have a failure in that line that's pretty catastrophic so I just I don't know if the board's all aware of that but it is it's very it's very worrisome for us to get that repaired I was up there with Tom and fellow from Otter Creek okay yeah yeah and out of Creek was not the engineering firm that gave us gave us a estimate we went over there we went over there for the look at it yeah right now that the weeds and grass are so high it's hard to see anything but a lot of shoe back on that yeah yeah but it's it's it's a it's almost a disaster and you know just waiting to happen so we wanted to get that repaired before before that happens Rob approximately when did you get the repair estimate of two million to gauge it time-wise March it was March yeah thank you and and we don't have that you know we don't have the money so we can just run out and fix it so we need to bond for that money to be able to make that repair the other project I wanted to mention is on the water side of things we're all aware that we had a break on a Comstock road this last week and fortunately it wasn't two disasters it wasn't catastrophic because that where that broke is part of a loop so you can shut it off either side of the break and the person on the other side can still get water because water just come around the other way but where we don't have a big loop is all the way from our water tank all the way you know you know how the waterline comes on the other side of over onto Airport Road and then all the way down to Granger Road we have no loop there if that waterline breaks anywhere between the tower or the tank and somewhere around Granger Road maybe maybe Industrial Avenue everybody's without water because there's no loop to feed the other way and so that's why this so-called Scott Hill Loop is very important to us I would come down Scott Hill Road all the way to Comstock to create that loop so if it breaks over on Airport Road everybody's still got water because it'll come the other way and we did get it we got an estimate for that too which is over three and a half million yeah three point seven million dollars to do the Scott Hill Loop so now that's you know that's not in my mind not quite as urgent as repairing the sewer line but we still need to it's very important to get this loop because if there's something happened to the waterline along Airport Road everybody up here on the system yeah so I do remember that the break in the waterline yeah it was my first day off probably three three months right so that came at shortly after five it was about 512 I got told of a ditch actually of a pot large pot bowl two car motor vehicle accident so we did have a pickup truck that drove through and got pretty well banged up the second one just nosed in and was able to back out but the concerning part for me and I think talking to Craig and I may have be wrong on this somewhere around 300 and 300,000 gallons of water was lost and no alarms went off does that sound right well let me jump in yeah actually holding after action we need tomorrow morning to discuss that see what options we have with the alarm settings and I guess the logic of the alarms if we can what we can do to get early notifications on it was three to four hundred thousand is what you basically dream is so it was basically drained and and if I don't say anything there's a gentleman on board with the fire department that would say well if we hitched on to a hydrant that would be sad find out there wasn't enough water so it's just there you go off and it was suscitated by order yeah we got our first notice of that the tank was in a low about 245 in the morning 245 but that so there's a notification that gets gets low but that didn't set anyone off to go look at anything or I believe Grace did okay I believe you did yeah so again this is a large sum of money that we we can't we don't have the money to do this we're going to have to bond for that too to get that so those are the two big things on my mind but with sewer and water there are a number of other smaller projects and I I see Tom's on the agenda later I don't know if you're talking about talking off while we're on it especially that the stock hill loop we we have applied for 1.8 million dollars a grand I think we have a good chance at that one that is supposed to be in the next two weeks we should we hear on that one and then we've applied for another million dollars through the state of Vermont but they're not going to act on that until November ideally the what we'd like to do on the one notice when we go to the bond vote is what the project cost is and what the anticipated out-of-pocket expenses based on any grants so I think we've had some good feedback from the first grant and we should find out here shortly I just want to say to Tom's done a wonderful job shaking the bushes trying to find money everywhere he can and he's put a lot of time into it and and we've had some we've had quite a lot of success but I just want to make sure he's recognized that so both these projects are to improve the infrastructure and safety of the systems for sure yeah well first I mean the sewer line that's to me that's a big one that first yeah that's huge that's to me that's more that's an urgent matter and as soon as we get money we need to get in there and fix it now is that in the state right away or is that in in the hospitals I think that's outside the state right away but I'm not sure I don't know how wide their right away is right there there's anybody spoken to the hospital yet oh yeah okay and highway's been out there with Craig and everybody's aware that we've got that they have to be doing some work there right and I don't I don't need to tell the board this but water and sewer is very important to the town of Berlin that's you know that's where where you can attract development and growth along with with the highway water and sewer is is very important for the town and we've got to we've got to have a system that can be reliable and safe so and dependable so that's why these these two projects are very important for us to get done okay anything any question any questions for thank you very much for your time your diligence so a motion on when to disband the book works board in the first of the year middle of next summer I think it was time okay what's it I concurred Recreation Committee update just a good evening Tim Shea I'm on the rec committee I'm just gonna give you some updates and just put a few asks out there too first just want to start by acknowledging that other members that Hannah Connor Jeff Farrell Christa Zeprotsky and Mike noise Hannah Jeff were kind of some of the initial members and the rest of us started to tag on and it really came as a separation of the conservation so more partner more closely recently with the planning and and co meeting with them but obviously kind of singularly focused on rec opportunities and programs throughout the town and we're still kind of you know getting our feet under us we've been only at this for a year or two so still trying to figure things out and what ask will be that we will probably as we grow programs and look to you know become a recreation hub we will likely need some more money in the budget to be able to support those for our for the development of our programs as well as hopefully the development and for future offerings for new people coming and attracted to here whether it's for tourism or so things we have done as the recent we did put in a new scoreboard at the at the school over on the baseball softball field put new signage at the parks in town just with new information to educate people and how things have changed over the last so many years as far as the usage and opportunities there we are running help support the summer swim lessons we subsidize those for Berlin residents through the monthly your pool and coordinate that looking we had broom ball so winter we've got all equipment and we're gonna have a tournament but another nature was not we're going to get a jump on that next year's another nature rain is out those January rains but so we'll plan on having a fundraiser tournament next year for room ball Mike noise who is also coaches at the high school level has been running softball and soccer programs for those that are looking to participate and I think some of that in and to echo Rob's Simmons Tom has been instrumental in helping us as we're really looking more strategic kind of looking larger than just you know small programs so and he can certainly speak and has done a lot of heavy lifting with with some of the grant opportunities that are still pending but we've got several and just want to make you aware of those one is one that Rob had mentioned that we'd like to piggyback on and we've got some some grant houses out there but that is the across Berlin trails so that we would look to as they put in that waterline extension to get that loop so you've got the safety there of a break and stuff we'd look to as the road work is happening to widen that road and put in a path that would connect Scott Hill basically at that same time since there's a lot of disruption in that area we're looking at any opportunity to piggyback to add recreational opportunities have he's given the proper funding for that so that's that's one another is we are looking out here at the town land here obviously got the seasonal ice rink and what we'd like to do with that is make it up for season facility and there's really two aspects to that one is to well probably more than that there's really three is one is to just grade that area redo that area to get it to drain properly and shed the water so that it's just a little more environmentally friendly and not a mosquito haven secondly would be to pave part of that area where the main rink is and make that a four-season facility so put pickleball courts of basketball in there and make that a four season as well to have it third aspect would be to put a roof on it so that would be able to carry a solar right that the town would then be able to reap the rewards of all the net metering and programs you're probably from the European all the benefits of solar as well so that is something that we've got that's the ice rink solar that's got the ask out there with a pending as well and then as we look to roll these things out we've got a pretty small budget at this point it's about $5,000 so that hasn't constrained us at this point but certainly as we look to grow and do more with programs we can sell fund raise within some of the programs having registration fees and such that will help cover the costs for those that are running those programs we know that there will be additional maintenance as we look to grow that so don't have a specific ask but certainly know that it will be larger as we work through the budgeting process for next year to be able to expand and offer more for our residents anything Tom is there in you know as you're aware we've got ballot you know two of those are related to us as far as the asks here which would be the Scott Hill and then the ice rink and Tom's been generous been using the staff time as just to help as we're obviously a group of volunteers so we haven't leveraged that too much but we know what's out there and Tom as I said is done a lot with the grant writing and stuff so just those two projects that Tim mentions will be part of the November November 7th upon boat the Scott Hill wrote bike path is about $1.6 million we have a $800,000 request out we're supposed to hear in August about that and the ice rink project is $775,000 we have a $387,000 grant pass as well we're hoping for 50% funding for the projects they're great projects that direct what's great about the rec committee they brought a brand new energy to to the planning commission meetings and and they're they're a fairly young group with young families and it's it's it's got a lot of momentum and and aspirations and so I really hope that that the select board does their next budget that you give them some consideration for what I think they're doing curiosity Mr. Shea how much usage does the school get over there as far as recreation goes we've been using it for the softball programs and as well the soccer so and then they do run little ink over there so and they've been very accommodating we fact we do have used some of you 32 fields they tend to be a little more tight around usage there but Mike obviously has some hands there given that he's on the coaching staff so his relationship with the AD has helped there but we do quite a bit of usage over at the schools and what about in during the summertime softball and the little ink is certainly goes on there the soccer will start up in the fall so the resources are being used yes yeah I would say and then I you know I'm not there on a daily basis but you know there's always you walk out back and look there's always someone out there families or something kicking a ball or throwing something around so I think there is a lot of community usage there in the house Mr. Shea in the house Mr. Shea no no just show me the money later it'll be good well your your bike path Diane is there still some money in the bike fund so off the top of my head I'm at least 30,000 I was thinking 3035 well it's a good start good start it's good start good seed money so thank you for all the enthusiasm for it yeah no I think I mean you probably are aware but the other the recreational opportunities that commerce it can create can really be a big town so I think that's the way we got a look at these as you know start to be a revenue generation for us so but sometimes you got to make that money invested up for us opportunities exist yeah question for you Lee so did did you guys have any flood damage with any or I don't care if it's if it's the rink out here you know anything that was not that I'm aware of you know down the rivers and parks certainly is seen it's it's water but you know right there by the bridge I know a couple people down there did some cleaning up yeah yeah I'm sure it needs a lot more yeah yeah so I peeked down there but at this point nothing that's you know catastrophic or anything that's you know what we have at this point it's been resilient okay thank you thank you grant bond projects just to follow up on these gentlemen I think you had in your packet of spreadsheet that looks like this and Tim mentioned some of this hit on some other items here the we believe while we have a near mark from senator Welch to replace our main pump station 302 there's of course one of them always states that it's gone to the next level and of the bureaucracy federal bureaucracy so they say don't spend any money don't do any of that but we're it's going down the road so we're we're hoping to $800,000 to replace that pump station then if you may not you've never that pump station it's about 30 feet 35 feet underground there a single man elevator goes down in my mind's eye very problematic from a health and safety standpoint and it would behoove the town to improve that bring bring that structure up to the surface still have to keep the wet well below grade but when you're working on pumps and things like that doing it surface rather than 35 feet underneath the ground just makes sense and so have that down there yeah so you're from very much so yeah I've been twice and I'm not go down again so that was senator Welch so we're hoping to hear hear from them the we the public's work board is also been working on I think two really good projects one of them is a two million dollar that would bring a community wastewater system to the village of Riverton which is solely needed down there unfortunately the clean water state revolving fund just did their priority list and the Riverton project was three spots out of the money and you can hope that the people above you the projects don't come to fruition but that's it's not a good thing so we'll continue to keep trying for it but we're to the point where the the landowner that we had a better agreement with is likely going to develop the prop property on their own it's not to say that he couldn't use it additional capacity there from a wastewater standpoint which would benefit that community but it may just complicate things for us so that was unfortunate and we also same priority list Berlin corners here we post-work board is looking for a couple years now to to like Crosstown Road from ain't here by North Crosstown Road there's there's no wastewater municipal waste water there one home is on municipal waste water and the sense is it's pretty wet area very clay soils the cost of replacement of of those systems are probably thirty forty thousand dollars you're gonna have to do a mile system so we tried to get on the priority list for a four hundred and ten thousand dollar nut but we got turned down to that one as well we'll continue apply form but you get an I think we're gonna need some miracle the problem is particularly the Berlin corners becomes it it's a higher-income neighborhood and they're not eligible for funding outside of some of the standard for Riverton we were really disappointed on that one did not come to fruition to mention I think some really good projects on the pump of the recreation Commission again they they have a lot of juice in their committee they're very excited we as a we as a town we're trying to grow our community and one of the biggest things that folks when they when they went to live in a community is recreational opportunities that are close to them we don't have to drive to to northeast kingdom or wherever to do this I think they've got some seeds planted that come to fruition I think Berlin's is good is going to be continued to be a model for smaller communities but what you can do with what you got to you gotta be able to go out willing to search for grants writing is one thing getting is another one so we'll talk in one thing see if we're any success the big one that particularly to our new town center I don't know what version you've got the wasn't marked in red on the left-hand side there the there's three of them that really make up the the gateway route 62 gateway so that's the that's the Berlin mall entrance into into the new town center and I think you know that the town was recipient of a 3.8 acre parcel from the school took over three years to get that done but in May the town became owners of that 3.8 acre parcel what that parcel allows the town to do is to realign the Berlin Mall Road reconstruct it and and then make it a more pedestrian friendly route than what it is now and so these three these three in red really go to that end the first one I'm gonna go I'm gonna walk to the last one there though the live liac infrastructure loan does the state treasurer in March or April said that he's able to invest 10% of the I'll call it surplus funds of the state of Vermont into economic development programs so we applied for $2 billion of low money low interest low money to to do this realignment and reconstruction it would and we would put in water and sewer lines to four under belt under under undeveloped lots in that area and build the stormwater infrastructure to to then build on to on those lots so liac was to make it a determination end of July they didn't then the flood occurred and we're hearing rumors that that $85 million may be repurposed for flood repairs so we've been looking at other sources of funding to that end and we hope to be able to report back to you that we have successfully found some additional funding again this is low money it's not not not grant money then back up to the top the beat the v-trans infrastructure it is a grant program and so where we're the first one I talked about would would realign and reconstruct the Berlin mall road the the top one v-trans money would build the sidewalks the multi-use paths street lights and street escaping around those roads and once that all occurs all these will be built the v-trans town of Berlin standards the the town has said that they would assume the ongoing maintenance take take the right away and assume the ongoing maintenance for those roads renaming that that road Gateway Avenue you guys decided that several early to the middle of 2022 I believe so it would be renamed Gateway Avenue and the town will take on the on the ownership the the next one down and so that's a $550,000 project of which $440,000 is grant so the out-of-pocket expense to the town would be $110,000 on that this is another one we're supposed to here in mid-August the next one down is it's a community recovery program and we have we've applied for $205,000 to to help offset expenses of the two million dollar that I originally talked about and that committee last week last Thursday I believe has unanimously approved our application which to me I believe is the we will be soon given a grant award of $205,000 towards towards that two million dollar loan project for the for that area so so those three in red are I think you you look at the opportunity that this affords the town we estimate that well the Down Street housing would be involved in this project as well their third units of housing the ball would has a develop a lot on that they're talking about 30 60 units of housing the town has that their property that there's a thought of 7,000 square foot first floor for officers or whatever use but you could add three or four stories on top of that get another 30 units of housing on that as well so collectively we're looking at 120 units of housing here and I think if the Ducks align we can get that done by 2025 we've just lost 40 homes in Berlin with flooding this won't be in time for those folks but this will afford opportunity for individuals to move into our town be send their kids to our school shop at our shops and work in our town it's it's very exciting that the opportunity that this can afford the town it will help the Grand List it's just it's it's just the keys to the kingdom I truly believe that this gateway project comes to fruition you're going to see the balance of this so it's very exciting times and you have you have I think in front of you are blonde or blonde ass there's five projects on it I'll just go over real quick all they are all mentioned tonight the this $2 million for this loan for the for reconstructing the Berlin Mall Road and putting in the water sewer that's a $2 million ass the sewer line repair that Rob mentioned $2.2 million on there completing the Scott Hill Loop of $3.7 million on that as well the Tim mentioned the Scott Hill multi-use path that's $1.6 million and then he also mentioned the improving the ice rink to a four season that's $775,000 all of these except first one come with we believe 50% grant funding the first one is completely out of pocket the sewer sewer line repair again we are to we are to know here soon in the next several weeks what if any additional grant funding that we had at the bottom of this page I've got a little running total I call victories right and so I'll just go over those real quick the we acquired as full property the Listers had a put an estimate on it several years ago of $685,000 the the Public Works Board has received from the drinking water state revolving fund a $42,500 grant to develop an asset management plan for the water system the asset management plan really helps in these future funding requests because that's one of the first things to ask you do you have an asset management plan it's a relatively new system in reality reply you probably don't need an asset management plan now but putting it in place now gets us to the next step for other fundings the the next one Rob sort of to that we the Stockhill Loop project the we've got $58,000 of we haven't got the official amount yet but that's why it's not in green in your but I'm hoping it's going to be the full $58,000 that'll do the final engineering design on the Scott Hill Loop project we did receive a small energy grant for the ice rink in the solar project for $4,000 and then I mentioned that $205,000 for the gateway project so we've got $995,000 in I'll call it grant the property's not a grant but it was it was given to us it's just just equal to a grant so in 2023 today we have the town as a received $995,000 of funds that don't have to come out of their pocket so and it's it's it's really attributes to to the to the boards that I have a great pleasure working with the planning mission are doing a lot of the driving in this town and kudos God with them public's work boarders just they are just super if there's an issue if there's a problem they're not kicking a can they fix it and we all learn lessons from them and in the and the Recreation Commission has just gone on board they they see the fruits of some labor and what they have a vision for what to grow the town and and so again I'm very fortunate to be associated with those with those three groups you have in front of you and I believe we agree that November 7th was likely be the date so that we were we were concerned so we put we put two calendars together one for November 7th which is the first Tuesday in November there is not a traditional vote this this November but it's a traditional voting day so we thought it would be good to keep that our concern was that if we did hear from from these grant sources in a timely manner that we would put a bond vote out there and and not say what we think the out-of-pocket expense is so we we put in a December 5th calendar as well we've got some assurances since since this came out that we we should know our funding in in August so it's been a recommendation to to the town administrator that we look through in November 7th ballot we have we have hired a marketing consultant to help us to get the word out on these these five these five projects we hired radio north group if you were familiar with what they did with the with the planning commission use them very successfully during the campaign we recall that the town had to seek permission of each of the five towns in the supervisor union to to grant that land to the town radio north group did did that media campaign it was it was a lot of one-on-one interviews with town residents they use social media like tiktok and Facebook they're looking at doing some with streaming as we're streaming so so the public the cost is $4,500 the public's work board is there of that is throwing in $1,500 the direct committee of their bigger budget is throwing in a thousand planning commissions throwing in a thousand and tours in the town to throw thousand for the town so that's what the $4,500 is you may be asked to participate in this in these commercials for for these projects so we're gonna give them I'm gonna give them a list of public officials who could speak to to the town you folks are known you've been elected you carry a good bit of weight in this community so again so it's it's I think it's a good campaign towards that in on the set in on the program you could ask you to weigh on your opinion but I think we've got a good good campaign and look to get positive votes on all five of these bond issues initiatives for Tom thank you very much no way we get the money we're all before thank you I did not want to I recommend everybody thank you it's giving me a whole lot more respect Vince and Dana and Jeff great time away okay proposed for environmental site a cool house trail have property so this was something that was brought up I believe with the June meeting that we had tabled it until July the day of the flooding so we put you off again this is a proposal for moderate creek start looking at former stump dump on coals trail looking at any environmental EPA type concerns that might be on that property in anticipation of potential development of that land okay mr. chair they speak to this place sure what it so interesting when you when you delve into the world of grants you come up with things right and and one of them was brownfield redevelopment and all that and there are there's lots of dollars out there to that end the initial step is this this assessment so we have seven acres down there seven plus acres down a coals trail I know how valuable this land is we you know we're we know for a fact how valuable this this ground here is to me it would move the town was a 4,000 I can't breathe for $500 to me a short money for what could potentially be on 787 acres and have relatively close water relatively close sewer close to the interstate I just I think I can't have a can enough for this economic development opportunities for the town I'll get off my soapbox seems a reasonable amount of money for what it would provide well I mean relatively speaking it would be nice to know what is down there far as has been the old stump dump if there's any potential for use of that land no matter what we're going to have to have a study done absolutely and we've questioned that over time it's come up numerous times where I think just recently in our last board meeting there was conversation about the yeah exactly so I would recommend proceeding and I second that if that's an option I guess over any timeline involved just wondering how long of this this indicates that the schedule and cost provided a valid for a period of 45 okay once we sign it I believe their intent is to have the study done before the end of the year that's excellent okay any other discussion on this all those in favor hi okay carries thank you on the grants and bonds project prior to did we need to make a decision to follow that November 7 8 or I think I think we'll make the decision next week perfect excellent very good so okay local options to ask planning on there we had that is you know I have to create a schedule like this are we looking at the March Tom meeting day festy vote on that well I mean I don't know it'd be very quick very close to do it you know number I don't think the information is accurate enough you know the education part of it what it will do for the town are you looking out for you later that I'm trying to think when we have to have it on the warnings that's in February it would be a question for Rachel to be absolutely certain but I'm a proponent of the sooner the better yeah I'm pretty sure that it you'd have to have it because it has to be you have to have public hearings and everything that's I'm just wanting my intent is create a schedule like this for that vote and if we're looking to do it in November that's very very short time frame you know hours if not days days no hours whereas you know but the same time I don't want to push it off to March and then we're thinking in February what's our schedule going to be I'd like to get that schedule set now it's whatever day we decide to go remember that's gonna be a chatter change so literally just going to have to approve it and you saw how probably they were on the other chatter changes we had so if you do it in March you missed the opportunity because they usually do this at the first of the session right so if you want it done early it's going to have to be in November now my concern about doing in November is for your urge to potentially bring five bomb boats down because I just can be overwhelming to them and the whole thing might go down I think I'm putting together is the thing to do and your your education is going to be you know it's going to be going to hang off some of these these projects you know we have we haven't really had a good discussion on what those you know what that local options tax the money's coming in the revenue coming in what is that going to be going towards and it can't be just kind of up we're going to buy trucks you know we need a real plan we need an infrastructure absolutely and that will come but the in my opinion the local tax is definitely needed and the time is now and I do believe that there's a lot of education that's already out there and we do have them now until November and I believe that we just need to ramp everything up to make it happen it might not pass but I really do believe the time is now and I I do feel confident that folks know the need so overall that makes me very confident that it would pass I mean the first the sort of line if that fails that's going to be big we're going to fix it no matter what absolutely and the same with the the Scott Hill loop is a little bit different but at the same time if anything happens from the tank to industrial have we're done I mean you're going to spend money anyway so it's a question of whether you want to take in edit paid for by the residents or if it wants to be paid for by other people benefit those services and when we were talking about the fire department earlier tonight a gentleman mentioned that Berlin is like the little lost and it really is true we're growing by leaps and bounds and we're going to have so many needs going forward and I just think moving forward with this quickly it's very beneficial for long well if we're going to take in trying to think you'll have to get hold of Rachel and do the step back from right I'm thinking that it you have a hearing you have to do about your hearing is 30 days of power right no more than 30 days of power and then but you've got you've got a period in there of two or three weeks or another 30 days where the last public hearing to the vote so people can you can still they can still get information I just can't remember the exact time but so you're stepping back you're stepping back two or three months so if you're going to do this right at the three months right then you have to do it so you have to have your public hearings and not that's what I'm thinking about you better than wait until March I agree with you there but the trouble with the March vote is that then you have another year to November to December January before that you get a vote on the charter sheet I say we get all hands-on deck however it's needed based on your discussion with Rachel and if you need us to help more in terms of what you're doing so that we can move it along and even discussing with air to out you know what other avenues do they plan in terms of the education from now plus Vince had a lot of documentation that he prepared you know that'll be helpful very okay so what's the board's pleasure as far as when you want to have the vote I personally think it should be that's my own and my opinion is November I'd like to go forward with it in November Joe I think the local option stacks of voting on those bonds I think that if you would also have to do a educational piece continued with the educational piece I think they go well together but here's the thing you're not gonna have a whole lot of people out there and voting on that okay I don't necessarily think you're gonna have the outcome as you would in March I prefer March I just agree a story to tell and we have to tell that story we have to write the story to be able to tell it and I think March is too quick to not just say we're buying a load or loader and they're doing capital I think we really need to get down to this is what we're gonna have today the thing here I understand what Joe is saying because if you're you the water in the sewer both capital projects if you if you say that we're bonding for these but if we take and go with the options tax this is what it would be used for these are the projects we need to have the funding for I think we don't have to vote for the options tax in November but use that as part of the educational piece and have the options tax in March and I say have the options tax in November and every board meeting from now till then we factor in a piece where we have a discussion at every single board meeting to outline this that and the other what the money would be assisting us in the various ways so that we are continually educating folks so we are so we are telling Dave but no offense Dave but Dave I'm looking for a motion here on the how we're going to proceed my motion is that we set the local options tax for March vote March 2024 I'll second that okay any further discussion of the local options tax vote date yes hearing none those in favor I motion carries those opposed no I'm just saying that I yes exactly yes one day okay that's all said enough or most of it here when do we need to take the set with the bomb boat schedule that's actually start next meeting okay now discussion of the creation of a local cannabis control commission so I just wanted to get this on your minds the town come we go out to then to our retail cannabis sales in the town that was a binding vote so that is not an effect the question is now come up do we as a municipality want to establish a local cannabis control commission our I put in the packet pages from the state cannabis control board document for municipalities what we can cannot do zoning does apply and we cannot just create zoning for canvas but our other zoning regulations do apply if we had a local options tax that would be our subject to that we cannot do a local options tax just on marijuana but we can on that so I just wanted to get this to you get chance to read through this I will have this on our next meeting agenda and I will invite the police chief to talk about any concern she has but it's a very timely topic I just wanted to get it out there for you thank you does Barry have a commission I do not know I do not believe so because it's I mean basically it's a recreational tax I'm just wondering if we wouldn't be better if more player very both have commissions to take and see about getting a joint one between all three of us a little more evenly approach this so nobody but I don't know if that's really the legislation I personally as they would probably argue against creation of this commission but I want to your guys decision not just mine so I'd like to hear from the chief on that as well I would to and I find the section F buffer zones is interesting in terms of the paragraph where it indicates a municipality may regulate the location of cannabis establishments to the same extent it may regulate the placement of any other business under its owning powers but a municipality does not have authority to go beyond its general zoning power under 24 BSA section 444 etc. I'd like more information about that and I think it would be good to have a drop forward and talk with the sheet okay so you're gonna bring that by the next meeting okay I've put in all your packets a spreadsheet analysis of the three-page bids we've received for Airport Road paint turnpike and paint Hill Road we did receive a $200,000 of grant from the state for the Airport Road project and I would recommend awarding that contract that bit to pike the other two projects and we'll get into the more as far as cash flow and budgeting and everything Pine Hill Road I think it's just not gonna be in our budget this year with all the flood costs we have paying turnpike I think Tim would like to speak in favor of this year choices up to you guys is all but as far as turnpike goes it's just from make woods down to the intersection that asphalt is in very poor condition it's very thin in the wheel tracks and they're very deep last winter we had all kinds of problems down there the wheel tracks are blown open we're trying to plow holes keep getting bigger we're getting claims put in on for bent wheels and tires and that was mainly just a level coat just to push it through here for a little longer to to get it the last until there's actually a project there is one coming up I looked at it and that one of pothole there by Applebee's entrance I see that even the patch is starting to sink is there any underlying problem there it's just there's no pavement there so water keeps getting in there and keep taking the dirt out and then eventually once it gets a hole underneath it and I and it was also probably could have used more patch but that was patched in the midst of all the flooding and everything else that was going on and it was a quick get over there we threw a bunch in the bucket loader and took it over there and passed it before we were leaving in one morning I see here on these bids prices about not like is the lowest but they're also the least amount of cottage yeah I mean I went with all of them they all measured it okay I mean he you know the kid that does all the measuring for bikes the one that does all their measuring for this pretty much the state of Vermont so I did you trust him so going to that section in turnpike north in the Shaw's area and you're talking about the wheel tracks and not just the pothole I'm sure everything's dying has there ever been any work done to the sub base of that section around we got a lot of heavy trucks come through there and what I'm gonna say is you're gonna pay that it's gonna look nice for a little while and those trucks are just gonna you know then take its toll you know my sense of pushing off because I think you know we need more work there than just you know the 220 tons of asphalt and it's just gonna be a bandit we need you know work there however you know we do need to work on there I'm sitting and the real fix is gonna be expensive and so what I was gonna say is you know it's a little over $38,000 I'm confused here the numbers paying turnpike to Shaw's they're talking 2,450 tons I think you just kick over right down through the tonnage just to the right yeah so 420 tons in the other the other project is 300 3,675 tons 38 38 so airport road is 2450 tons paying turnpike is 220 tons and Pine Hill road is 1,005 tons oh their their pike is the only one who separated out for bids based on the three separated out the bids on the bridge project or the heading so anyway even though it's a bandage it's it's and I'm gonna say only $38,000 but to really do the work there you're gonna talk about reclaiming that road and really working the sub base and building that up I'm gonna say there isn't a whole lot of integrity in that sub base to to accommodate the heavy loads I mean I guess I'd be a favor of doing that one but we didn't plan ahead on doing something very different from the intersection of 62 all the way up to let's just say cross-down intersection cross-down comes up so with that being said like doesn't have to happen anytime soon but we might want to look in maybe some core samples or something because it's weird because we've had the conversation ourselves it's just that section the road the same amount of trucks go up as out you know what I mean but from making what's down on the upper section isn't nearly as in bad shape and I don't know if they were done in different times well you know what I mean like the lower the lower portion maybe older versus the upper section maybe newer because I think they did some work through there between the waterline and they also widened that road with with the adding of this new store I think it was some work done to that upper section that might not have been done for a second I don't know I was not I mean before Shaws was there and before Maplewood is where it is now and you didn't have the hotel it was a much more narrow road the other thing is is you look at the road as it is and trucks turning into maple wood and coming out of maple wood there's a lot of tire wear there although from those trucks and that road that section of the road is fine I mean it's showing a little scuffing but you expect everything down by the stop light by Appleby's it's like there's this that's why I was wondering if there's anything underneath that road that was it's all you know I mean looking in that hole it's all gravel it's not like it's yeah I mean but you don't know how deep the gravel yeah I know how deep the holes again that's also slower trap when you're coming when you make that turn on the paint turn bike north and to climb that little grade it's much slower traffic in the same coming down let's say they go up and they fuel up and they come out their head is back to 62 it's all downhill past Shaws fairly you know fairly quick and now you're going down and stopping and waiting for a light it's a lot of slow traffic well the other thing is when they come you look at that way when they come out of maple wood you come down the hill yes they have gravity working for them but also the way the trucks are coming there isn't quite as bad because you look at people trucks when they come off of 62 and they got the green light or they got a clear shot they come around that corner pretty quick off of 62 on paint north so I don't know if that's causing it to thin out more down there or it's thin so if what would you recommend to him just taking do just do the wheel tracks down there so they were just gonna shim it three passes because it's so wide make before I think because I don't know what the use of paper is part yeah they use an interstate paper that you get pretty good with that a bit but it's just a overlay to level out the wheel tracks and kind of get the surface back so the water is not running underneath and popping them popping it up and it's just kind of to get it through to a point where we can find out like they'll said maybe maybe it needs a little more work some base wise there then as I'm sure from ten years ago now it's an actual sizable truck stop the truck traffic is picked up considerably just to go in and get fuel there yeah actually I think I passed the local local handbook for municipalities I believe that I send that to you did you get it to her and I sound also to correct there there is opportunities in there or services of which we can ask for from the state and so you're talking about core samples you know you can get do some self-surface investigation that's really what you think you need you know and that would be done you know not by a consultant but done with probably the boring crew from Space State itself you have geotech engineers that can look at that and give you a report of some sort to help direct you and maybe what options are out there now I think we do have we receive money from the state the revolving town highway something like that I think that's what they call it based off number of miles of roads that you have we can utilize that kind of sits in a kitty I do believe and utilize those funds and any which way we see fit this could be one of those things Tim opting opting out of paving Pine Hill or some other road does that change the bid that's why they were bit separately okay it was all in the heartbeat that it was also been separately so all projects have their own separate play price so if this nobody saw the flood happening but if if we wanted to opt out of one project the stick to or go with one get rid of two though that was the whole reasoning why we did it separately priced so they're all priced on their own yeah even fresh coat and James as well yes they were just they sent him a total they all asked that they're all told I wrote around there one of them and spoke all of them I know fresh coat actually called Vince and asked them how we would like it and he told them like there was a part in the back of it I said for a copy of three times fill that out and they all submit the other two some of the one bit but how kind of separated okay so a motion of this I'll make the motion to go with the paving of airport road and paint her pipe near Shaw's and go with the pike for those two projects any further discussion all those in favor okay a true proposal to suspend late payment penalty interest for first copy tax installed that's not me but I guess that's the other part of that because of all of the moments that are flooded out and from what I understand I know that applications for most all of these and these people have been asking her well we can't make the first installment because you're not going to have you know we're going to do more debate meeting more in September in September because many people involved as you can when they want meeting and so they were concerned they don't want to pay the first installment if they're just going to give me that and I think we're in a situation either you abate you don't charge it to anybody or you charge it to everybody we've done it one other time we did it during COVID what we just you know just one month one you know one time the penalty and one the other issue is that due to the floods the males messed up and it's still messed up out of my period post office so a lot of people didn't receive the tax bills at all or as timely as it would have been previous years and make the motion to approve approve the proposal to suspend the late payment penalty and interest for the first property tax installment to the town of Berlin. How have the property tax received been going they've been coming in really well I mean we are seeing a lot of them every day just good it's not I'm not seeing I'm seeing as many checks this year as it did like I feel good thank you anything for that anything else on this all those in favor motion carries right away for power the application packet the applications in your packet I don't see the gentleman on the phone that's for green mom power slation of a poll at 37 bar to look at the proposed project issues with it recommend approval of request it's a guide pole without a lot on the left hand side it goes they don't have because it's so steep in there they can't really get pole in the middle so by putting a kick pole on the other side to build a span that second pole up the hill farther to pull back on it so it's just it's set back off the road and they have permission from the landowner they said to put a anchor out in the woods it's it'll be out our way and they're going to use a tall pole so there won't be any obstruction to us make the motion to approve permit number 23 dash 05 6 for the installation at 37 Bartlett Hill road of the pole just described by Tim total project cost 8,525 dollars and 98 cents that's the installation of pole and anchor to extend the existing primary to 37 part a second the yellow discussion all those in favor motion carries so obviously the plugs this is two-sided thank you we certainly have one more to get into it but right now 564,000 almost 565,000 dollars into this project so far and I don't know how much more is going to cost I know we're going to be getting some FEMA money but we're not going to get that until we know where we stand with project and start sending money and lose that information. I paid some of the bills this week and I'll be paying the rest that I can fund next time around in August so I just don't know what we're going to end up on the project so we are starting to run out of cash I've got the school team is going to be made it has to be made in September 15th and that's almost two million dollars so we're very quickly coming to a point where we're going to have to borrow money somewhere whether it be a line of credit or tourists just to be borrowing against the sewer water because they do have some surplus cash and then once we get paid back from FEMA to pay it back but I just don't know what it's going to end up costing us, I have no idea. After Kirk and Irene I found out we did take a similar short-term note out and paid it back the following spring so we're talking about nine months or so that time we got the money back from FEMA. I guess my recommendation is that you borrow internally from the Public Works Board and then that runs out and you can explore it or line of credit or something like that. I concur. I don't think we have any choice. Is that putting forward as a motion? Well that's what you would like it to be I guess it could be. Of course I probably should be making that motion because I'm also on the Public Works Board. Here a second. Any further discussion? Sounds to me like Tim you'll be busy. We'll just go to the next slide. I'm looking out the door. It really is coming down. Getting drawing you know. It doesn't start to come up. Any further discussion of this? All those in favor? Aye. Okay, David delivery of new truck. Okay so I guess that Tim is telling me that new truck will be ready any time. I'm looking at what $250,000? $228,000 I believe. Mine is checked in. We've got quite a fair amount. But obviously I can't cut a check for that until everybody brings it to the public office. I won't be able to cut a check anyways until the next time we have a meeting. Which is 21st. So when is the truck going to be ready? It's telling me a week ago that it would be either the end of last week or sometime this week. It also is greatly needed. Because we have a truck that's up to their code right now that is broke down prior to national back order. It's also the truck that we move our equipment with. And it's the only one currently that we have that has airlines to the back. But this new one is equipped with airlines to move our... I'm having to hire people to move our equipment right now. The truck that it is replacing, we have not had since March because it's been at the other mechanics. Trying to find the gremlins and the wiring that truck has cost a lot of money in the last two years to keep going on the road. So we're running with two dump trucks right now through all of this. So my question would be, if it does come in this week, will I have the permission from the Deli Corps to cut issue a check before the next meeting? Which is not until the 21st. I will provide Diane that offer as soon as possible. I'll second that. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Motion carries. Thank you Diane. Okay, draft. Drug and alcohol policy for CMD operators? This is just an update to our existing policy. This is required under federal regulations. There are just a few minor editorial changes to it. I'm updating the name of the company that does the drug testing stuff for us. The only substantive change is on page eight, about the middle of the page heading FMCSA clearing house. This is the new requirement that went into effect three and a half years ago that we're required to do pre-employment and annual checks for previous drug testing. Drug testing violations. We have not been doing that and our violation of federal regs with that. So this puts that requirement into our policy and we'll start from there. The total policy itself is quite deep in the 17 total pages. So I just put it in your packet tonight so you have a chance to run it through it. And I'll look for adoption at our next meeting on the 21st. That sounds good. I have sent this out to the department heads for third concurrence and not receiving any concerns. Okay, approval licenses, permits, vouchers, and applications. Is she on that? I don't know if she's on that. I didn't see it yet. Who's here? It's all right. Maybe it's in one of the folders. Here we go. Oh, great. Thank you. Okay. I'll make a motion this evening to approve payroll warrant 24-03 for payroll from July 16th to July 26th, 2023, paid on August 2nd, 2023 in the amount of $69,065.72. Payable warrant 24-03 with checks 23175-23254 for payables in the amount of $401,299.66 and the reconciled July bank statements for the general fund and sewer water checking accounts. Here a second. Okay. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Motion carries. Approval of July 17th, 2023 minutes. I make the motion to approve the Monday, July 17th, 2023 regular select board meeting minutes as presented. Second. Any discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Motion carries. And approval of July 31st, 2023 minutes. I make the motion to approve the special select board meeting held on Monday, July 31st, 2023 here at the town offices as presented this evening. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Abstain. I think you're here in time for the start. Motion carries. Well, people for flood update? Don't flood update, yes. The debris removal has started at Berlin Globe Home Park. It started Saturday morning, 64 tons were removed Saturday morning. They were back there today until they got a flat tire or so. I don't know how much they were able to get accomplished today. But I'm not that good at doing well. We're meeting tomorrow morning with the state and hospice feds on options for Painter and Pike. That wash out on the culvert. They want to take a look at it and get a kind of rough idea of it for the federally part of it. Because that's going to go under federally, they believe in that much FEMA. I believe it'll pick the process up a little bit as far as getting it reopened. So they're going to take a look at it, do a site visit, look it over. Kind of sure give us some recommendations on where to go. Is any of that black top falling in? I don't know, I haven't been over there recently. No, not as of Sunday. How is Roushison Road? They got their deck in there? Yeah, the bridge is all in there. It's rated for 100,000 pounds. So a little bit of thinking that we can go across there. I put a large truck across it yesterday. You did? How did that stay? What else is there? We can count on you. I have a question about your meeting with the state tomorrow in regards to Painter and Pike North. So I would like to think in terms of getting it fixed, they might come up with a solution of just a temporary fix as well. Right. Okay. I can tell you as of right now, their recommendation is leave it closed. We're talking with them on the phone. But we'll have to see what they say. If you keep in mind, we do have a water line and a sewer line right through there. Where's a couple of doors? Where's a couple of doors? We've got a piece of steel over there. It's huge. Put another bridge in there. So what they've said about that so far is, maybe knocking some of it in and covering it with some sort of dirt for insulation for the wintertime purposes on that one side of the road. But it's not been recommended for travel due to the fact of following. Knowing where the voids are and without digging that completely to find where the voids are underneath the pipe. There could be another failure at some point. Well, I mean, one of the troubles is that the sand that was put around the coal where it was washed out, even if you dig it up and repack it, it's not to say the fat sand doesn't want to go away again. Right. So back when we were talking about some of the services that the state can provide, they can do some borings there looking for those voids. An expensive temporary fix would be pumping out a full flowable fill possibly. That takes, that will go in and fill voids without having to excavate the whole thing. There's options out there and it's going to cost something. But that's a main thoroughfare. And for it to look like Fisher Road and like the time that that was closed, shame on us. Let's not do that. Just saying. Anything else on the flood updates? We're down to one road that's just about completely roughed in and then it's going to be on to kind of cover all this up with gravel. That's going to be the long process. I think we started a few spots and we did crosstown today to get that taken care of and covered all the dense grade up on the bottom and graded it. So it was smooth, fixed the few up on top, covered. We had some time left at the end of the day. So we did out here by the pump house on Brookfield Road over by the foot. Covered it with an inch and a half, filled it up on the packet for a little bit. Put some final dress over the top of them and it's going to take a while. And then I'm sure we'll probably end up having a few periods here. We'll end up hiring a truck or two to help us once we get. It'd be nice to get the other truck back from up in the Clarks. Another truck and we'd have four of our own. We could do a pretty good dent with that. It's going to be the haul down Bartlett Hill up in there. It's going to take some time to get that much material. Bartlett Hill and Mirror Lake Road were by far the worst ones either. We've got Mirror Lake Roads right here, so it's quick and easy. Getting covered up, shape back up. Unfortunately, it's going to be stalling here in the two and a half months, three months. It's already fully 8.30, it's dark. Henry. Getting down into the 40s now again at night. We're having it on the wrong side of things. Anything else on the updates? Round table, Joe? Sure. The fire department still has a few fans left that have not been issued out. So there was a donation. Amazon gave the town many municipalities a donation of fans and dehumidifiers. And we have been placing them out at requests of residents. A lot of it has been word of mouth. A few of them came from Front Porch Forum, so we still have fans. All the dehumidifiers are out, but fans will work as well. I think we're getting on the tail end of anybody needing to get their basements dried out. It might be a little past the, you know, past optimum time, but we do have it. I also have a town resident gave a letter of interest for the board of directors for the fire department. This is a position that is appointed by the select board via town resident. So, I'll give this to you. Thank you. And this position is open? It is an open position. It has been open for nearly 18 basements now. I just want to commend everyone throughout the town, everything that's being done, tour, what you've done for us as the interim town administrator, and amidst everything that's going on right now, pack it's not any thinner, and you've really hit the nail in terms of many things that we've needed to address. So, I like that you're keeping everything moving. I want to keep things moving. And that's wonderful, wonderful. And I also like tonight that we looked at offsetting the tax bill. So, that was great to Diane. Anything else? That's it. Thank you. I have nothing. Any executive session? No, sir. Well, entertain a motion to adjourn. I make the motion that we adjourn tonight's regularly scheduled select board meeting. A second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Motion carries. Before we go to the meeting, we've got signs and papers.