 I'm gonna call the meeting to order as the co-chair of the Community Safety Working Group. Governor Baker's extension of the March 12th order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law allows us to hold this virtual meeting of the working group. Given that we have a quorum present, I'm calling the August 12th, 2021 meeting of the Community Safety Working Group to order at 5.31 p.m. I will call upon each member of the working group by name. At that time, you should unmute your mic and say present. This will indicate that you can hear me and we can hear you. Please remember to mute your mic after saying present. Ms. Pat. Present. Mr. Vernon Jones. Present. Mr. Cage. Present. Ms. Walker. Present. We can get right into the agenda review. So I wanna take a couple of minutes to review the agenda. We will first hear any public comment that members of the public want to provide the working group. We'll not respond to your comments, but we'll be listening to them carefully. We will then hear comments from members who may have something to report back to the group and get right into the agenda as follows. Tonight, we're gonna discuss the resident oversight board, the documents that Mr. Vernon Jones put together on why BIPOC and why stipends. We're going to hopefully finalize the IFB6 document. Is it showing? Could you scroll down just a little? I'm sorry. Oh, okay. Okay, now I can see it. We'll talk about transparency and public access to data. We'll do a subgroup check-in, a Crest implementation meeting follow-up and then discuss the ARPA funds. So we'll get into public comment. Our fourth order of business is the public comment section of the agenda. If any member of the public would like to make a statement, please raise your hand. I'll recognize you and ask Ms. Moyston to turn on your microphone. I ask that comments be limited to no more than three minutes. The working group will not be responding to your comments, but we'll be listening carefully. We don't have anyone in the audience at this moment. Okay, move to the next one. So the next, before we get into the agenda, I wanna go into the members reports. This is time for members of the community safety working group to update us on any work they are doing or events that might be coming up that they've attended. Does anybody have anything they'd like to share? Ms. Pat and then Mr. Vernon Jones. So the traffic control we're still working on that myself and Brianna. So hopefully we'll have that ready for you guys in two weeks, we'll meet again. Thank you, Ms. Pat. Mr. Vernon Jones. Well, I did manage to do a quick read through the patrol officers contract with the town of Amherst. And the one thing that I found that was concerning and we'll have some limits on our work is there's a provision in the contract that says no discipline that occurred more than a year prior can be considered in a current discipline decision. So in other words, the each officer's discipline record basically you can't consider anything that's more than a year old in deciding how to handle a current situation. I think this is not an uncommon clause in a police contract, but to my mind it's problematic because if somebody does something even if it's fairly serious and they do it once a year you're not supposed to take it into account in how you respond to a new incident. But that's in the contract we could recommend or the oversight board could recommend attempting to negotiate that out of the next contract but it's the one clear limitation that I saw in reading through the contract and I just want people to be aware of it. Ms. Pat. Thank you, Mr. Ross for your diligent. I think the question CSWG should be asking is is this consistent with other departments in the town? It may not be uncommon for police force across the nation but what is the practice with other departments like if employee is disciplined? Does that, if another infraction happens does the past one count? Maybe this is a question we might want to write to the human rights and so the human resources department because what I heard you say to me the way I interpreted it is that there is no consistency and there is personal policy in our town and that is problematic if that makes sense to people. Yeah. Thank you, Ms. Pat and thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones, Ms. Moyston. Oh, you're muted. I just wanted to make sure that I understood you correctly Mr. Vernon Jones is that you said that a complaint can't be filed against an officer over that's after, if a year has gone by is that what you just know? Okay. If there's a situation in which discipline is being considered or decided on for an officer anything in that officer's record that is more than a year old cannot be considered in deciding on a new disciplinary response. Okay. Yeah. There's, thank you. The language in the contract is more concise than that but that's basically what it means. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones for catching that and sharing with the group. I also wanted to share a meeting that I had with Marcy Slove a little bit before this meeting. She was able to attend the ABLE conference that she sent us all. There's still a second half of it tomorrow but she was able to send us some links and what she brought to me was there are different police departments across the country who are partnering with law schools and who are doing de-escalation and creating accountability through this curriculum called the, I believe it's called active bystanders. She sent us information about it and I forwarded it before the meeting. So I'm hoping that we can table the conversation this week on data and transparency and take a look at this training she sent us all and have a more in-depth conversation on it when we talk about traffic control on our meeting August 26th. But some of the things that she said was really interesting. The person who created the curriculum, his name is Irvin Stove. I hope I'm saying that right. He's actually living in Holyoke and he used to be a professor at UMass. He's done a lot of work on being an active bystander and that's like his research specialty and he's also done work on bullying. I think a training like this might be really useful because I think the Amherst police department is going to exist regardless of Cress and I think that a training like this might be able to start some sort of accountability in the police culture at the APD but I'd have to learn more, Ms. Meisten. So this is a more of a, typically with the agenda, you can't go off script of the agenda because it doesn't give the other folks the ability to know that that's what you're speaking on. Okay, I'm sorry. So we can have this conversation in theory. I mean, I think it fits in other places but you can definitely have it under the 48 hours. So we can table anything that you would like to. It's just when you bring up a new subject that's not on the agenda. That's a problem. Okay. I will move. Does anybody else have anything they'd like to report during the members report section? Oh, but it's during members report. So that's okay. We just can't have a full blown discussion. Okay. I'm sorry. Thank you for correcting me, Ms. Pat. So this is not a discussion item that just the email I sent regarding the health department report that I hope that we will be able to incorporate one of the issues that they raised in our recommendation that we should table that as well. Do people know what I'm talking about? The health department report. That was a damning report. I'm distressed for two to our time. Before we wrap up members reports, I just wanted to let the group know that Alicia and I were able to meet with Mr. Backelman last week. And aside from the conversation around the IFB, narrowing it down and being specific as to what we want, he was on board with working with Dr. Barbara Love. So Alicia and I did start a draft to reach out to her. We've looked over the notes from the meeting that she presented to us. And we also found the article that Ms. Pat sent really helpful. And I think she's on vacation now but we're hoping to send out an email by tomorrow morning and work with her. Thank you guys for your time. Excellent. I'm just quickly looking through the notes to make sure I'm not missing anything with that meeting with Mr. Backelman. In regards to the deadline for our presentation PowerPoint, he did seem that that could be a little bit more flexible. He said he would get back to us with dates where we could present and have our report do. And I think the November one deadline is a little bit more flexible. I will continue having those conversations with him so we can have a more definite answer. But I just wanted to let the group know where that was. So Ms. Moistin, I just have a suggestion to make. It's not an agenda item that would be... Perhaps there might be discussion out of it now. Or maybe I should wait later. It's about our meeting schedule, CSWG meeting schedules. Oh, I mean, that would fit nicely underneath next meeting date. Okay. Okay. I just don't want to forget. Oh, no. So I'm gonna say, I'm gonna put a note here that you wanna go back to meeting dates. Yeah. Thank you. Did any other members have anything they'd like to report at this time? Okay. We can move right into the resident oversight board. I just wanted to have a brief conversation to make sure that everybody got a chance to read over the document that Mr. Vernon Jones put together. I'm hoping that if we are all okay with this document and the WIPOC and WICE type in document that Ms. Walker, Mr. Vernon Jones, and I can approach the chief again and have a conversation. Does anybody have feedback that they weren't able to get to Mr. Vernon Jones or are we all in agreement of the draft that was in tonight's packet? Ms. Pat? I'm okay with it, but we're done hot. Is Deborah coming in today? No, she will not be here today. Oh, she won't be. Yeah. I read it before this meeting, so I'm cool. Thank you, Mr. Ross. You invested a lot of time and resources and research. I appreciate you. Thank you so much. Thank you, Ms. Pat. Mr. Vernon Jones? Well, I wanna say that the input I got from many of you and in particular in this last week from Ms. Pat and from Deborah where it was very helpful and made, this is a different document because of the input that I got from other people, which I very much appreciate. I'd actually, I finally this afternoon got to read that the executive summary version of the thing that Mr. Bachman sent us from NACL and they have a 13-point set of principles that they're now recommending. And I would suggest that in our document at the end where we've attached that list of NACL principles that we actually put in the slightly lengthier and more up-to-date list from them. I think it sets a kind of national framework and provides some rationale and backup for things we're asking for. Is that agreeable to people? Yes. Ms. Pat. Yes, I'm glad you raised it. I should be making notes before I come into the meeting. I actually, I didn't read everything that Mr. Bachman sent to us that I'm glad you raised that. I did notice that those items were updated. So thank you for raising it and I don't have any objection. I think it should be added. Thank you. Mr. Cage and Ms. Walker, are you also in favor of that being added? Yes, I am. Awesome. Yes, I'm also in favor and I just wanna say thank you to Mr. Vernon Jones because this is a great document and I think just having the lengthier version is just a better way to set a higher standard. So I think that that's a good addition. Awesome. So with that said, we can move to the next agenda item, which is the why stipend and why BIPOC document. Oh, Mr. Vernon Jones. No, I just wanted to make sure you didn't skip those. Thank you so much for putting this together. I read it a little bit before the meeting and it's looking really good. I don't have any edits or feedback that I want to add to it. Ms. Moisten, would we be able to pull up the document for folks who may have not gotten a chance to look at it? I'm sorry. It's up on my screen right now. I was just scrolling through it and then when you said that it made me realize I'm not sharing, screen sharing. I read it before the meeting. Can you see it now? Yeah. Okay. Just let me know when you guys want me to scroll down, please. Did everybody get a chance to read this? I did. I mean, the why BIPOC statement I sent a while ago, the one about stipends is new today and I'd like to make sure some people have read it before we go forward with it. I've read it. Are we all in favor of the proposed draft that Mr. Vernon and Joan sent us on why BIPOC and why stipend as well? Did everybody get a chance to read it or do we need to scroll down? Does anybody have any feedback or edits that they think we should make to this document? Ms. Pat? I don't have any edit, but I just want to highlight what I like about it. I immediately wanted to say what the final, some of the reasoning, the fact that there will be a lot of training, no other group in this town that does that amount of training. I think that should be compelling. Yeah, so I just want to highlight that. And also the fact that we set it with 10,000 and now we're talking about 3,000. So, yeah. So I don't have any edits. Do we know if Deborah read this? No, I'm not sure if she got a chance to read this. Mr. Vernon Jones? Yeah, I don't know. Deborah gave her support to the why BIPOC statement, but I don't know whether she's seen this one. And maybe if we approve it, we should approve it conditional to her. Input. Being able to offer input. Definitely. So do we want to, does anybody who's here have any edits or feedback they'd like to give? If not, I think we should send it to Deborah and then move forward to meet with the chief after she looks over the document. Sounds good. Mr. Vernon Jones? I don't think this document is essential for the chief, for the meeting with the chief. And this one is really more for the town council, I think, and town manager. We would share it with the chief, of course, if we're ready, but I don't think we need to wait for this one to get a meeting with him. Okay, that's, that's good with me. Is that good with other group members? Yeah. Yes. Yes, I'm also in agreement. And is it the chairs or is it Mr. Vernon Jones and the chairs that are going to be meeting with the chief on this? Yes. It's going to be myself, Ms. Walker and Mr. Vernon Jones, Mr. Vernon Jones. I just wanted to, you know, we have talked about the fact that this needs to be a collaborative relationship with the APD and that citizen oversight is only going to work if we get real buy-in from the police department. And I think we should be prepared when meeting with the chief, if there are things that he feels he needs in order to have it work for the APD or to be able to get support of the officers, I think we need to be open to considering those. I mean, I wouldn't, you know, negotiate away anything that we think is really critical. But, you know, we've kind of developed this independently from them. I mean, they've gotten a progress report because we shared an earlier draft with him. But I think we should be open to coming up with a process that the APD can support. And I think, you know, what he said to us last time is that, you know, the APD doesn't want officers that are, you know, misbehaving. That's not in their interest. And I think, you know, part of, I think some of the discussion may just be, how do we frame this so that everybody understands that this is supporting the police department in the sense that it provides an opportunity for greater confidence because there's accountability and oversight. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. I also agree with that. Did other members have anything they'd like to say about this before we move on to the next agenda item? Wow, we're really flying tonight. So the next item on the agenda is IFB 6. Thank you so much to everyone who was able to provide feedback on this. I'm wondering if we can pull this document up for people who may not have and agree on a final, not a final, but agree on, well, yeah, a final draft tonight so we can bring this to Mr. Backelman ASAP. The only rivet, Ms. Weistfinn, sorry. That's okay. So I spoke with the finance department today with Sean Mangano and Anthony Delaney. And so they feel like the IFB has written now is about a $50,000 bid contract. So I don't know how, so I kind of feel like if that's the case, then if you get more time from Mr. Backelman, then maybe that would be better. But there's a lot that's in this IFB. So I don't know if there's things that you guys feel like, I don't know what you guys wanna do. That was their thought process was that was $50,000. Does the group feel like this is $10,000 worth of work? Ms. Pat and then Mr. Vernon Jones. I had a suggestion that we group some of the themes, like find a researcher that have Lego background to do some work for us. And then some topics for seven gen that did some work for us. And maybe come up with another topic for another group to do some work for us. Like how people deal with it because we have a short amount of time. I think we should stick to the deadline that has been given to us on November 1st. It will be my recommendation. Doing this as IFB, I'm just concerned that by the time the process, it will be October. And I will be done by the end of the month of October. And Ms. Pat, one of the things during the meeting with Mr. Backelman, he did mention that we could do the three quote process. And we told him, Alicia and I told him that we wanted to work with seven gen. He suggested the possibility of working with LEAP or the African Diaspora Mental Health Association could also be an option. And Dr. Porter has experience working with police. So that could be an option. Yeah. And also that is a community member because she has not been approached. She's an African American, she's a professor, a law professor in the area but she has not been approached yet. I would like her to do some of the work for us as well. Ms. Moisten and then, oh, Mr. Brandon Jones, were you first? Let's let Ms. Moisten go next. So what I didn't realize about the quote was that you have to take the lowest bidder. So what happened? So when I went down, spoke with them because this is where I needed clarity. If we go up to 9999, right? And then, yes, I counted my fingers. Then we can just contract with someone. When we do a quote, we have to go with the lowest bidder. We're sending it to three people in hopes that we get a response back, which works too. The quote in the IF, so they actually suggest if we were gonna do this to do what we did the last time and we could do it in like a two-week, three-week timeframe. And they're also stating that the quote is a two-week, three-week timeframe. So I don't, I mean, that's what they were, when I asked about the timeframes and the quotes because we have such short time. So I also went through and I know some folks are more data-driven than others. And so I really wish Deborah was here because I know that she's a very data-driven individual. But I kind of feel like there's certain things that can come out and be handled in other ways to ease the pressure off of whoever the consultant is because like, for instance, well, number 11 on page two, the mutual aid agreement with UMass and police, that kind of works. I mean, I don't know exactly what you want to have researched out of there, but the town manager and the chief of police would work on that. So I don't know how that makes everyone feel in the group. I'm trying to understand where people are at with it. The hiring practices and racial diversity could just simply go to the DEI director. Another thing for the group to consider too while we're having this conversation, Mr. Backelman said he will give us up to 25. So that gives us a little bit of a bigger budget than 10. Does that again? He said he'll give us a budget up to 25,000. Yeah, and I honestly think like, if the work needs to get done and it's gonna cost 50,000, if you guys are gonna do it as is, then that's what we need to get. But also like Brianna can, our IT department can provide the information on how to make data from APD and Crest transparent and easily available to the ongoing community. So I don't know, I mean, I'm trying to check in to see how people feel about some of those things coming out because when I'm reading this, those things that fall underneath examination of APD, this part is the bulk of what I thought needed to be researched. So I also wanna make sure I'm on the same page as the group. Mr. Vernon Jones. Well, we also have a version, Ms. Pat went through and highlighted the things that she thought were key. She bolded the things that she thought were key. And, looking at her list, I thought that was an excellent, I found myself mostly in agreement with what she had identified. I don't know, is that available for us to look at? Oh, I know. It is, that's what you're looking at now. Oh, okay. Ms. Moistin, could you scroll down just a little bit? Thank you. The only thing that I thought might be missing from this document, it might be helpful to get, oh, I'm sorry, Ms. Pat. Go ahead. The only thing that I thought was missing from this document that I thought might be helpful to have consultants do some work on is to help guide us with the training that we want to put together for the resident oversight board to look at what other communities are doing and to help guide us with that, so we can be more specific. Ms. Pat, and then Mr. Moistin. Yeah, wouldn't that fall into, maybe you can add into number three. Would that racial justice, this managing white supremacy, would that fall into the training you're referring to? Oh, no. Three C. Training, yeah, yeah. Actually, yeah. Oh, we can add something to it. If we could add, or if we could make like a D if the group would be open to it to what are other communities doing for resident oversight board training and how can Amherst implement a training that prioritizes community safety and ongoing anti-racism, or ongoing anti-racism training in community safety or something along those lines. So who's going to put it in? Who's going to type it in? Who's going to do that later? Yeah, I can add that later. Is the group okay with that? I am. Yeah, this is a PDF. I can't change it at the moment. Yeah. Mr. Vernon Jones. I like the idea of adding in, you know, the racial justice training for the resident oversight board. And I guess it depends on how much money we have. I'm not sure that we need to take on the job of describing all of the training that the resident oversight board will need. You know, that's the kind of job that the town staff, you know, in my mind should take responsibility for and that hopefully they would consult us and we could be involved. I guess the other, I think it's, if we identify selected portions of this, say the ones that Ms. Pat has bolded, I would also like to go back to, I mean, I don't want to drag out the time process. So if going with an IFB is the way to go and we can do it quickly, great. But if there's also an option, you know, or quotes either way, if there's also an option to divide this into two things that would be, you know, you can't just divide it arbitrarily, but legally, if you can identify different, really different categories, then you can have two contracts up to 10,000. And that might be a way to proceed, but we'd kind of need the finance department to say whether they felt it could be grouped in two groups like that. Ms. Moyston, and then Ms. Pat. Oh, yes, they did say that it could be grouped into two, that you could do two different quotes or two different bids for that or make the document into two. However, they were concerned about it being $10,000 and the timeframe. So, and I don't know how much that impacts everything else. Ms. Pat, and then Mr. Vernon Jones. Couple of things I want to address before I forget is Ms. Moyston have spoke about some of the topics could be handled by the chief and the town manager, but no offense. My preference will be to have none town employee to handle the staff, just for credibility of the work we're doing. We want the report to be done by non-town employees. They're great men, nothing personally against them. The second thing is I would like to propose that we like two people come up with three different categories of everything that we've identified. One would be legal stuff. One we has to do with racial justice and some of that stuff we can put into it. One would be like data and I'm thinking leap for that. And then, you know, instead of waiting in two weeks to figure it out, maybe we can send it to Ms. Moyston and send to everybody to see if those categories work and if it's good to go to the town manager and to the finance department. I think three categories will make a lot of sense is my thinking, it's just a suggestion. But I wouldn't want any of the town employees to work on any of the project. I'm sorry, but people will question the data that is used, people will question a lot of stuff. So let's just, yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Pat. Mr. Vernon Jones and then Ms. Moyston. Well, I wanted to ask Ms. Moyston when you were looking at this with the folks in the finance department, were you looking at the whole list or were they looking at just the bolded items? You're muted, Jennifer. Of course I am. So the conversation that I had, well, that I had with the finance department was more about the process of how to move this forward, right? So the only feedback, they said that they read it at a separate time and that it seems like this is a much larger bid than a $10,000 bid. And I'm assuming that that's the whole document that they were referencing. The things that I was referencing that can be done were completely separate out of that finance meeting just from their feedback of and not knowing if we wanna go past 10,000, if we can go past 10,000 or what's the fastest, my thought process is what's the fastest way to get the most quality of work that we can because that's where we're at, right? We have a time restraint. So, and I just, I don't know. So I don't think that anything would be done without communication and without collaboration with members from the CSWG either. Thank you, Ms. Moisten. Mr. Vernon Jones. Wonder if we could, well, my thought is that we should not need the whole group. Can we do something today that we could give guidance to our chair to work with the town to move forward and not wait two weeks till a meeting? And what I'm wondering is could we agree that our first choice would be to do the things that Ms. Pat bolded and then if that, can we then also look at it and say, if that's too much, here's what we would be willing to let go of in order to get the other parts for sure. Ms. Moisten. Okay, so I'm just a little bit confused. So the things that aren't bolded are still, you guys are still trying to have occur, correct? Or is it that the stuff that is bolded is just a deeper, I'm confused between the bolded work and the non-bolded work. Ms. Pat. So my thought process, and I can speak for the group, I looked at the work that we started working on. So I'm say, okay. So I was only thinking 10,000 and I didn't think that it will increase. And I wasn't expecting that 10,000 would do all everything that was bolded, but at least we can prioritize and then even ask someone, Jen if they can even do some of it with the amount. Then this afternoon at this meeting, I'm hearing that both the finance department and the time manager thinks that the project will require more money, which is actually what it's supposed to be. So to answer your question, I kind of like highlighted topics that we haven't touched upon yet. I'm sorry, say that again, Ms. Pat. The topics that we have not discussed because we picked only three, we picked oversight board, we picked traffic control and then we're kind of not sure what to do with community policing. So that's the big question mark because we felt that we need, the town need healing and visioning before we can even talk about community policing. So I don't know where we at. I don't think that is final decision on what we should do about community policing. Does that answer your question, Ms. Moisten? Yes, it does. So it's kind of, it's a little bit in addition to. You mean the community policing? No, no, no, the bolded. No, no, no. The bolded is not in addition. The bolded is what we haven't worked on at all at all. Okay. So and then I just, you know, I just set of curiosity when it comes to like the traffic control. Yeah. If we feel like we, I don't want to say feel, are we looking for the data that says that we need to make a change or do we already feel like we know we need to make a change on traffic control? Yeah. I think we need to make a change unless, you know, if somebody is non-BIPOC, most of the interaction that BIPOC community face with APD is traffic stop. Right. I'm a black woman and I know what I'm talking about. I'm not questioning it. I'm a black woman too when I get the same responses though. So it's... So data or no data, we shouldn't have officers handling traffic stop. Right. I made up my mind already. Right. And I'm just wondering though, if that's the case, then why don't, wouldn't we just want to work on finding, pulling that out and finding an alternative way to do traffic control? We did, well, that's what we're working on. We will send it in two weeks. We're working on that already. It's not included in the work we want to contract out. It's not included. The traffic control. I believe Brianna and myself are working on that. Right. Yes. I don't know. I thought I saw something. No, that does, but I... Number five. Number five is traffic control. Yeah. It's traffic control alternatives to police's. Yeah. So yeah, we're working on that. Does that make sense to you? No, that does make sense. I, you know... Okay. Yeah, that does. Ms. Pat, did you... I, yeah, I have one more thing. I kind of agree with Mr. Ross. If we can pick it up tonight instead of like having two people to work on it, you know, if we can group what we want people to do, I really would like to have Leap help out. I would like to see Seven Gen help out and the professor, you know, on the legal path. We haven't even approached her. We're not sure if she will be able to do it for us. So like we're looking at less than 30K type of work to get done for us. Ms. Moison and then Mr. Vernon Jones. And then what about the ADMHA? What number is that? No, that's the African DSP. And that one too, sorry, yes. Right, so that we can send four, right? Yes, yes. Because I believe that... I agree. Either Mary Beth told me that someone in that organization has already done some research on policing and worked with other police departments. So it seems like that might be a great way to have someone, you know, for someone to look at the research for us. I agree. Yeah. Mr. Vernon Jones. Well, my proposal is that we authorize our chairs to move forward with containing consultant services that would include everything that is, that Ms. Pat bolded and might also include as a description of how to do the bolded work, the paragraph, the five items that are at the very top of the document. Those are not separate topics. They're things they would do with regard to the topics they look at. And we clearly should remove the August from that because our report's gonna be later. But I would leave it to our chairs to explore with the town offices whether this is better done with quotes or whether it's better done if we get it in pieces, it could be under 10,000 by actually just going to and hiring the people we think would be most helpful. And we could have a conversation with, you know, both from diaspora group and Leap and maybe that would affect how we split it or maybe it would be clear that one of them was better than the other. But if there's a way, we will have the most control of we're getting the people we want we stay away from even the quote process and just contract it. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. I also, oh, Ms. Pat. Thank you for your suggestion. I think it would be nice to give the coaches some suggestion on how to group the topics and I'm being mindful of time unless if they feel that they'll be okay. And breaking up the topics. Thank you, Ms. Pat. Mr. Vernon Jones. The break, we could give some suggestions but I think the breaking up of topics, one of the issues is to avoid violating law. You know, they have to be distinct enough to be seen as demanding different expertise. And I think the finance department are the ones that have the experience about what's legitimate to do there and what isn't. I don't want them deciding what we're gonna research but how it gets divided so it's still legal. I think we really want their input on it. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones, Ms. Moisten. And just before I forget, the other thing that both of the finance department and Paul had said was that we would have, we need to have qualifications of what it's gonna qualify someone to know that this work, that they're able to do this work. So that was just another piece of it as well. One thing I wanna go back to what Ms. Pat said about separating everything into three sections into racial justice, the legal skills we'll need and the data skills we need. Could we just quickly as a group look over the bolded numbers right now and separate each of them? And then Alicia and I can approach the finance director and go from there. If the group is comfortable with that, that feels like a good way to move us forward. That sounds good. And even before we do that, I can actually see the group in Springfield working collaboratively with Southern Gen because they do similar stuff on racial justice. So we can have that as one. We can have the legal stuff for the law professor. And then we could have data for the leap, for the UMass, all that stuff for leap to handle. Awesome. So three would fall under racial justice. The data and collection would be under the data. Can we, Ms. Moisten, can you scroll down a little bit? Could you scroll to the next poll that I did? I think it's six. And then the policy and the examination. Yeah, so like police policies, I would say it will fall under somebody with legal background or somebody who have experience in police like leap. It doesn't really matter where it goes. But I wouldn't want people who don't, because this is best in there, this is union issues. So legal stuff, like legislation, contracts, accreditation, I would like it to fall under leap or under legal stuff. What do you think, Mr. Ross? May I? Yes, I would agree with that. And I would go further and say that if this is too much for the amount of money we have, or we don't think we're gonna get it, I would be willing to leave number nine and 11 to the resident. Number nine and 11? I agree. I agree. Can you leave that for the resident oversight board to take up? I agree. Okay. And if... Did you say, I'm sorry, did you say 11? What is 11? Oh. What is 11? The mutual agreement. I think leap, I think leap should do that. All right. Well, okay. Let's include that one in the, there's a group that's numbers six, seven and 11 then. Say that again. So leap would be six, seven and 11, right? Let me see. And this is the more data-driven group. You don't think seven would be legal, but we don't know if the professor will take it from us. No? I think it could be. What do you guys think? I think it would be good to have leap do seven just because they're familiar. I think they would be familiar with like the accreditation processes and that type of thing. But I think it could go under legal too. It could go either way. Mr. Vernon Jones, do you have thoughts? I think it could go either way. And for, you know, if we ended up having to do data number four, that's the one I would, I looked at some things back before we did our first report. If we had to do one of these ourselves, you know, that would be another, you know, if we have to drop something else to make it work, that's the one I would, because I think we can, some of us could do a decent job of that one without making a lot of work. Oh my God, that one is a lot of work. If you want to do it, if you want to take it, take it. That number four is very important and it's going to take a lot of time. But if you think you can- I would very much like to consult with the work on four if we can. Yeah, okay. So now it seems like there's nothing for the professor to do then. If leap is going to do four. Or six. Leap is doing four, six. Just to confirm, leap is four, six, seven and 11, right? Okay, four, six, seven and 11. I'm sorry, where was six again? Can we do one more time? I'm sorry. I think six was under leap too. I think it was four, six, seven and 11. I think. I think when we- But seven gen did do a good, I feel like seven gen could potentially do six. Or the lawyer, or the lawyer. Yeah. I think the professor lawyer, law professor should do number six, I think. Okay. Because if you remember the meeting we had with the resident, Brianna. Yeah. Where she spoke, you know, this is what she was talking about in addition to the traffic control, but she was also talking about, you know, officers patrolling and everything, remember? Yeah. I think we should move that over your right. So the law professor, we'd proposed six and then leap four, seven and 11. Was nine and bolded? And then the law professor to also edit the traffic control report from us. So edit it for us, to read it over, to make sure that, you know, all the legalities is included. So that should be enough for her, because it's one person. Only if she agrees to do it, if she doesn't have time, then we give it to leap or to, yeah. Ms. Weinstein. I just, I want to just make sure. So the racial justice dismantling white supremacy, number three is going to seventh gen. And the Springfield, they can collaborate. Yes. And then I have four, seven and 11 with leap. That's what we're suggesting. And then six in traffic with legal and policy. Yes, plus traffic control. We're going to work on the, CHW will work on the traffic control, but we were advised to have this particular individual read over our report for us. And then, so if the ADMHA. Yeah. Has people who've worked with the police departments. And I'm not, I was just told that they would have worked with the police before. So I'm not a hundred percent what that means. Oh, I see what you mean. But so don't you think, because four, seven and 11. It's a lot. That's a lot. So if we can take some of that and move it to one of the others or have four, then that would be better. Okay. Mr. Bernie Jones. Yeah, frankly, I would like to see us approach the African diaspora mental health folks and with the whole thing and say, what of this is in your expertise? What do you think you'd be particularly good at? And is there a piece of it you would do for under 10,000? Ms. Moisten. I got you. Be on that one, Mr. Vernon Jones. How about we ask them how much they think that they would do all of it for and then see where we can go from there? If it's, if it's more than 10K, we will have to do IFP, remember? Oh, yes. Yeah. That's the challenge. Town government, it's so difficult. It is. Yeah. But I like, I think we would show them all of it and say, what are you, what's in your field of expertise? What would you be interested in contracting for? And then could you give us a number for each piece of that? Oh, and yeah. They've got multiple pieces they can do. We can put together as many pieces as we can under 10,000 and give it to them. Because we don't know what Leap is going to want to do. And we also don't know if there are other legal complications because Leap has another contract with the town right now. Oh, I was thinking about that. Yeah. It might be okay, but it might not be okay. And we can't answer that. That's, that's going to have to be our financial department, I think. Ms. Pat. To be fair, I think we should send the items. Thank you, Mr. Ross, for your suggestion. I think we should send. Okay, so let's take up Leap out of the equation and have still three sections and send it out to the group that we identified to see if they wouldn't accept, like do it tomorrow. For example, and let, you know, get back to our coaches, like having our coach, oh, actually having Ms. Moisten send it to them to let us know how much they think it will cost to do it. Hopefully by Friday, they will get back to Ms. Moisten and then maybe Ms. Moisten can send us email or something like that. Rather than sending it to them to do, to tell us everything because their quotes may not work for another group. Like I wouldn't want another organization to do quote for what my organization can do because each organization is so different. Thank you, Ms. Pat. Mr. Vernon Jones. I just, I keep worrying that we're gonna run a foul of the law here somewhere. And I don't think we should send anything to anybody without consulting with the acquisition spokes in the finance department. Okay. You know, we don't wanna violate the, you know, the quote process or get ourselves ineligible or not allowed to go forward in some way we want to. Other than that, we have a plan to go forward if she... Having said that, we still have to do three different themes. The co-chairs are Ms. Moisten, send it to Mr. Bachman and the finance department to figure out the rest out, right? Is that what we're saying tonight? Yeah, I mean, we've got some proposals, but we need to run it by them before we can be sure we can proceed. Okay, so Alicia and I will, everybody's in agreement that what's bolded is what we wanna move forward with and those what is bolded, what we're gonna separate into three different things and check in with the finance director. Yeah. Okay, Mr. Verna Jones. With the one, I think Ms. Pat was right that we should add in review of our traffic proposals or some support for our work in traffic control. And do people agree with my proposal that if this ends up being more than the available money, we would leave nine and 11 to the resident oversight board? For me, the mutual aid is really important. That is important, yeah. I feel like I don't know enough on it and I... Me too. And I feel like every time that I ask for information on it, it's just like a brief paragraph, but there's what I'm worried about with the mutual aid is I wanna have a better understanding of it, not just for like these recommendations, but also for the Cres implementation, because I'm sure college students are also going to be utilizing Cres and I think it would be good for the community to have a better understanding of the mutual aid that exists between the APD and UMass PED. Those are my concerns. Ms. Pat? I agree with Brianna, because I remember in public forum both forums, resident really talked about their experiences with the UMass police. So I think they will be looking forward to our report and what we've done in terms of concerns that they raised at the public forum. So definitely we need to have that done. Okay, yeah. Ms. Moisten? Just nine would be removed. No. Which one is nine? I'm sorry, could we scroll down? I know you're so confusing. I'm sorry. Best of you. Oh, organizational. Yeah, that's not, yeah, we can handle that, yeah. I feel like we could handle nine, but it's 11. Yeah, we can. Yeah, I agree, yeah. And so you're wondering what happens when people are at desk duty, right? And what they're doing? Because I think ultimately the question is like, how do they determine how many police officers per shift? That's right, yeah. And how, so, or how many police officers like need to be in the force to begin with? I think that's, that's what I kind of get out of that. Is that what you're asking about? Sort of, yeah. I think nine we could investigate on our own, I think. Is there a group of people? Yeah, let's just put it in for the researcher. If they can't do everything, then we can take that build back, yeah. Okay. I have a question. What do we hope to achieve on 12? I struggle with that. I'm not saying it's not important, but what is the point? I know, you know, the time manager put that for us, that what is it that we're trying to, I mean, we know what the answer is for 12. Do we need to do any research on that? I'm just curious. Ms. Moisten. That was one that I kind of felt could be done by the, I know you don't want town staff, but at least there are new town staff person, the Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Director. Oh, you had one? Yeah. Oh, when the passing comes on board. Right. Yeah. I mean, that's part of our, the whole thing is like our hiring practices, there's something wrong and there's something wrong with our retainment. So that's like the first thing that needs to be worked on when that department gets fully moving. I agree. But we don't include it in our report. Is that what we're saying? I would agree in our report that that's something we think is important and we hope that we look for the DEI Director to be. Okay. Okay. I think the Standing Committee could also continue that dialogue with the DEI Director. So what about number 10? That's another area I'm like, so what is the point of this? I just want people to help me out. So I think I had mentioned that in a previous meeting, just like who the APD is partnered with. So for Cres, when with the grant that we have now and partnering with a mental health agency, the fact that CSL was thrown out there, I just wonder what organizations the APD is partnered with. And if in our second part of our charge, we can recommend different partnerships. Oh, okay. I think we can do that by ourselves. That's a clear start up, well. Instead of contacting that out. But yeah, we can do that. 10 and 12, right? Yeah. 10 and 12 are being removed before we even move this forward for someone to look at or? Yes, yes. Okay. Okay, what else? Can we go up, score up and see what else we're missing? One, two, one, two, and eight are also removed. But what are we missing? Hold on, hold on. Eight? Wait a minute, why are we not doing this? Number eight, what happened? But you didn't bold it. I didn't bold it. What was my call that? Evaluate APD. But maybe you just thought it was find the way and to leave it at eight because you didn't need anything to add to it. I don't know. Training, supervision, and account. You know what I was thinking? I saw the training team then and I saw, is it number three? I'm not saying that they were done dance, that there was something that they feel related or maybe they're not. Yeah, so that's why. Go ahead. Mr. Vernon Jones, I'm sorry. I think we need to, we can't do everything. And you know, this original list was sort of a wish list of all the good things we could think of. And I think we need to pick and choose so we can do a good job of the ones we're doing. And I think the ones Ms. Pat Bolded were an excellent picking and choosing and limiting it to what's realistic. I agree too. And Ms. Pat also, maybe we could leave the training part because maybe you didn't bold it because we could leave the training and that stuff for the resident oversight board. Yeah. Yeah. That was my thinking. That was my thinking like, I don't think we have enough time to do everything. So I kind of like, boldest stuff that I felt we have to address. Oh, Ms. Moisten, you're muted. I'm pretty sure I muted myself thinking I was unmuting myself. I have a little bit of concerns with 1B, which is the, how do we have residents approach the board because I had a conversation with someone who's BIPOC and they were like, I don't think that I'm gonna wanna go in front of an entire board to make my complaint. And I don't, so I don't know if there's somebody on the resident oversight board, the chair that could be deemed the person to do that. And then you don't have to worry about the open meeting law. Mr. Vernon Jones. I think the way we have it set up now is that any member of the board could receive a complaint. And we've said the board will normally invite the complaint to present to the five member board. But that's, I think that's optional. I don't think that's required the way we've set it up. And I think we've also said specifically that the board can establish its own policies and procedures for that kind of thing. So I don't think we need a consultant at this point to deal with number one. I agree it's an issue, but I think we can go with it with what we've got. Okay. I agree. I think I need more time to think about other ways that we could go about this, but I think that we could have a conversation on it later down the road and we don't need consultants for that. Ms. Pat, how are you feeling about that? I'm wondering, do we need to have the law professor look over the oversight board report? I mean, Mr. Ross did an intensive work on it. Do we need the legal lens to look it for us? I mean, that's why we have Deborah. So I'm not a legal person. So not to do extensive edit, but to give us a suggestion. Mr. Vernon Jones. I would certainly have no objections to that. But again, I think we wanna keep this as straightforward and simple as possible so that we get reasonable prices and can move fairly quickly. Once we've got a relationship, they might be going to read it and give us an opinion. Is it the time to talk about dates? We're still talking about this. We can move this forward if everybody, I feel like we're all on the same page and we can move to the next item. Good, let's. Thank you, Ms. Pat. What I'm thinking in terms of our final report is like, so like for example, Mr. Ross has on the oversight, the delegate will make with the chief, deal with town manager for buying with a report and everything. And then we have the traffic control also. I am wondering that the document that CSWG itself produced, it would be nice to have somebody with legal background to look it over for us. I know we have Deborah, unless if Deborah wants to do that, what am I trying to say? It's just with the police work, there's so much legal stuff that is involved and I know we're lucky to have some folks with legal background, that's my thinking before we actually made the official final submission in October. It's like all our work, we have somebody with legal background to look it over for us. What do people think? I like that idea just to make sure that all everything that we're recommending and putting forth can be implemented. Exactly. Having someone look through our stuff, I like that. How are others feeling? I also agree with that. Yeah, if we can. Yeah, that is if we have time, if we can, yeah. So that brings me to, what are we with Agenda? I'm sorry, what are we? We are on transparency and public access to data. We tabled this from last week. Yeah, I'll just wait. I'll wait. Okay. So we tabled this topic from our last meeting, I believe. I want to say that we should put this in our August 26th meeting with the traffic control. I think that the links that Marcy's Globe sent, Alicia and I, that we forwarded to the group, could be helpful in having a conversation about that. Unless other group members feel like they want to have, start this conversation now. Mr. Vernon Jones. I'm happy to wait. Me too. Mr. Cage and Ms. Walker, are you guys okay if we table this for our August 26th meeting? Yes. Yes, I'm also okay with that. Awesome. So the next agenda item is the subgroup check-in. I think the only subgroup now that we have left at this point is me and Ms. Pat for traffic control. We plan to meet before our meeting and have something together for all of us to guide the conversation. Hopefully for our next meeting, everybody can take a look at some of the articles in that ongoing document also. Ms. Pat, am I missing anything? No, you said it correctly. Thank you. Awesome. So with that, the next agenda item is the Cress Implementation Team update. Oh, Mr. Vernon Jones, I'm sorry. Could I ask that maybe a week from now our traffic subgroups send us an email saying here are the articles we think are top priority. We'd really like you all to read these, get to the rest of them if you can. So if you could prioritize, so we have some common background when we get to the meeting for two weeks, that would be great. Definitely. When do you want to invite? Next week, Thursday? Sure. That sounds good. Good. So the next item on the agenda is the Cress Implementation Followup. Ms. Moyson and Ms. Walker, please correct me if I'm wrong. I typed out my notes. We had a really long meeting today. Let's see. So I wanted to let everybody know that we are almost done with the draft of the Cress Director and the Cress Project Manager. We brought our final draft to the meeting this morning and the HR Director and Ms. Moyson are going to look at it on Monday. And we hope to then send to you all to get feedback before we post it. Ms. Moyson? Just to add to that, so we're hoping that we can send it to you guys either Monday or Tuesday, probably more realistically Tuesday, but we need a fast turnaround because we'd like to have that final draft for Wednesday's implementation meeting is moved up because I'm away and that way I can post this position before I leave on the 19th. So it will be a fast turnaround, but it's not a long job description. So it's not like it's like a 10 page document or anything. Mr. Vernon Jones? Well, I noticed that Northampton has, I guess they've already posted a position. And I just wonder if you've thought about writing our posting. So it makes it clear that ours is the more interesting position and the one where more is going to happen in the next year than Northampton. That darn blue devil's man every time. So yes, we will try and I think everybody across the board for their input to juice it up. To compete with Northampton, but there's no competition if you ask me, right? So it's... I agree. The other thing that we talked about at the implementation meeting was setting some definite dates for our social, well, not social service, our forums for the community so that the community is heard during the implementation process. Ms. Moisten had a couple of places in mind and different parts of Amherst and we want the community safety working group to be there for these forums. Are there days that work better for others of the group or are there days, what days work best for you, I guess, is what I'm asking? Are there days that don't? Ms. Moisten? Yeah, so I think the thought was that we are forever asking people to come to us via Zoom or come to a space here in town hall and we do get different people but we also get a lot of the same people. So the thought is if we go out actually into the complexes, particularly the ones that are more heavily policed by the police, that we could get some better input from people that we don't typically hear from. And so all I really need from the groups are the dates that they think this, they could do the community forums and the locations would be the two way finder places, hopefully Village Park. I think we were trying to do for North Amherst over by on Cinda Jones' property and then somewhere over at the boulders slash and then maybe rolling green too. And then we would like to have, I don't know, offer something, pizza, food from the, just to and have maybe Amherst ret come because in doing community outreach, sometimes when you get the kids involved and the parents come because the kids have to go run home and say, can I go do this? And the parents are like, well, who's out there doing it? And then they come out and we can get them engaged. Hopefully that's one way, not the only way. So the thought is that if we can do it that way, we might get some answers from some folks that we don't typically hear from. Ms. Pat? So what, where exactly are the male district? You mean the new apartment complex? And one on the common. The reason for the male district is because there are several places in North Amherst but we don't really have a spot where we can set up. I mean, we could do Mill River instead. I mean, that is accessible to the folks that are at the boulder at, what is it? Brandywine and presidential and the Riverside apartments that are over there across from Mill River. So we're kind of trying to get them. And then we'd also like to have one on the common that's open up a little more for the general public. Well, not the general public, but it's open more. Ms. Pat? So I think it's a great idea to go to the folks, meet them there. But I think that should at least be one Zoom public forum as well for people who wouldn't be able to get to those places. Yep. I think Brianna had said that in the implementation today too. Yeah. Mr. Vernon Jones? I'm just wondering about COVID safety and whether you thinking all of these will be outside? Yes, that's why we're looking for the big spaces like Mill River. So like wayfinders complexes have space where you can set up and do activities. We've done them there before. And then Village Park has that space over by the office. That's like a community space. The boulders has that space, which is, you know, that's community. It's just a big open field, really. So everything is outside. And we're hoping that we don't, I have concerns about Delta and we're coming up into the school season. So I'll put it that way. So, you know, I do have some concerns, but particularly if we're trying to offer food, like I don't know what we can have, that's already pre-wrapped, you know, just to make it easier. Because the first thought is like a, you know, barbecue or something like that, that gets people out all the time. So... And what months are we looking for dates in? Realistically, as soon as possible. So the, you know, we need enough time just to advertise it and get it out word of mouth. So that seems pretty much like the beginning of September. Would a doodle poll work for the group to get dates? Or what is the best way that we can put together dates where we can all be there? So Ms. Marston, in your experience, what days of the week do you think families will come out? This could possibly end up being a weekend thing like on a Saturday. I mean, it's a little bit hard to do something at 5.30, people are, you know, six o'clock, people are already in their homes cooking dinner. So if you have free stuff, they're like, I'm already in the house. So, but the Zoom one you could probably do during the week and an evening time to help, you know, change up the schedule a little bit. But I think the ones, the other ones we should try and do on the weekend. Mr. Vernon Jones and then Ms. Pat. I like the idea of a doodle poll and I don't think we need to have all of us at everyone. I think we need to have several of us at everyone, but I don't think anybody should have to give all of them. I'm fine with that also, Ms. Pat. I was going to say that I have like a bunch of standing committee that I've committed myself via Zoom even on weekends, believe it or not. I was going to say, if we schedule the Zoom one to be one of the days that we have meetings so that we don't have to like, you know, meet again, to be on a Thursday that we typically meet. I think that's a good idea. So do we want to do... We can actually start with the Zoom meeting one and then that's a good way to announce that we'll be going out into the community. I agree. Do we want to do it after the 26th meeting? Pulling up a calendar right now. That would be September 2nd. I mean, that's too close to Labor Day, I think. Yeah. I can go too. The 9th. The 9th. Ms. Pat. I actually don't mind if we do it on the 26th, you know, because most people will be back in town, isn't it, you know, prepping for their kids going back to school or should we wait until after Labor Day with them? What do people think? I'm thinking maybe we should wait until after Labor Day. Okay. Or... Brianna, do you want to create a flyer though? Yeah, I can create a flyer. And we can kind of start getting that word out now. Yeah. So we want to do Thursday the 9th, do we want to do it at 5.30 or? We want to talk about schedule now. Yeah. 5.30 is a little bit hard. Don't you think if you're coming home from work and getting kids up from after school and... Yeah. I agree. Yeah. That's what I was going to talk about. You know, we're entering fall, kids are going back to school, like, you know, summer is ending. I like to propose that our meeting go back to the 6 p.m. that we usually have instead of 5.30. It just get hectic to study meeting at 5.30. This is just a proposal. I'm also thinking that, you know, before we start losing people that we limit the number of times we meet for the remainder of the two months, for September and October, maybe meet like three times. For September, three times in October, not more than six times, or even less than that. I think when we have break, I'm really looking forward to next week, I will be able to catch up on so many readings with the wonderful literature that we've been getting. I really like to, like, read most of them, use, you know, our time next week to just do it. So that's my suggestion that we limit our meetings instead of weekly. We're almost done. So another thing I'm thinking is that we leave ourselves one or two weeks before our last day. I would really like to recommend that we use our life last day as a reflection for us to just talk about what these are meant to. Also as a group, as an individual, both, you know, the positives, the challenges, and also I referenced a while ago, it would be nice for us to have a gift for the town in terms of compiling the work that we have done in a booklet that we can donate to our libraries for many, many generations to come to say, oh, my great, great grandfather, Ross Vernon Jones helped make change in our midst. And then my aunt, Brianna, and so on and so forth. So let's leave a legacy and history for our town. So that's, you know, just, that's why we need to live to the last two meetings to brainstorm if this is even a viable possibility to do. Because I would like to, you know, have a sort of a final conclusion of our meeting, of our group. It's been quite a journey. I've learned a lot about myself in doing this work. Thank you, Ms. Moisten. I thought we were going to like, I don't know, some restaurant, right? I thought we were all gonna go to a restaurant and everyone but Mr. Cage could go for margaritas. I'm all for that, I'm all for that. That would be good, that would be fun. Take group picture for the book, we're going to donate into the town, see how my ideas are going wild and crazy. People think, are you there? Alicia, are you there? Yes, I'm here. Okay. Sorry, I've been here actively listening but it's just a little bit hard for me to participate because I have the kids with me right now so that's just why I'm being quiet. But I am here. I wanna propose to the group that maybe we consider meeting every other week just so that we have time in between everything to read and to show up to meetings and I don't know, I feel like us meeting every week is a lot. It is, yeah. And I wanna make sure that all group members can show up refreshed and not, I don't want us to burn out for the second part of our work. Would the group be in favor to do something like that? Yes, I'm in favor. Ms. Pat and then Mr. Verna Jones. Who else? Oh, are we raising our hands to who's in favor? No, I was gonna say that in general, I like that idea. I guess I'd like us to be a little bit flexible that there may be a time when we've got some task that needs us together again in a week but I like the idea of shooting for every other week. Whereas with these hearings, you just added what, four more meetings? Yeah, yeah, Ms. Moisten. I just suggest that maybe we take it, meeting, you know, make that decision every, you know, during the meeting because it might be like next week on the 26th or two weeks from now on the 26th, we're just feeling like there's a lot to be done so we need to meet the next following week but then that following week on the 9th second we might feel like, okay, we're just gonna have the form and then we don't have to meet again the following week. Like I just, right, we have all the flexibility. Yeah. You don't have to make it and yeah, you don't have to make it. I think we should normalize taking a week off just cause I feel like another thing also, I don't know how other group members feel about this but when I have time off to read and do the work I feel like I have time to think and bring more to the table and think of more things if that makes sense. I agree too. I wouldn't say this maybe like six months ago but that's how I'm feeling more and more and each week our number keep dwindling, you know? So we have fewer and fewer members participating. So yeah, we have to be realistic, you know? Yeah, I like the idea of every other week. Since we're going to have researchers do the work for us I hope they'll, you know, I hope so. Ms. Meisten. So our, we're not quite at five yet, but it's, I wanted to know if we have what the agenda items will be on the 26th other than the traffic control update. Mr. Vernon Jones. We were in the middle of a discussion about what time the Zoom hearing will be on the 9th. I don't believe we ever solved that. Did we get that? Good luck. I propose seven. Seven works for me. On Thursdays? On Thursdays? Oh, just for the one forum. One day sevens. I'm lost. Meet at 7 p.m. For the public for Zoom. Oh, sure. Sure. Yeah. So what can we do some work between six and seven then that day? Just in her. Just in case people don't show up for the public forum. Mr. Vernon Jones. Well, I'm not. I'm not sure what we ended up with about meetings. I think that depends on whether we meet on the second or not. I like Ms. Meisten suggestion. I like the idea that we normalize every other week, but we actually make the decision each week. How soon we need to meet. I don't know. I think that's a great idea. Awesome. I did. I did. I do still have just one more thing from the implementation meeting that I wanted to bring to the group before we move to the next topic on the agenda. During our implementation meeting this week. I wanted to bring to the group to see how you all would feel about. Collaborating with the fire department. At this week's meeting. Chief Tim Nelson. Told me a lot of things I didn't know about the fire department and how they're very understaffed. And I'm wondering if, um, how the group feels about possibly cross training EMTs and firefighters to be crest responders. Um, I think it's a win-win because he gets more staff. And we also get medics. Um, but I want to open this up for discussion for the group and hear you all's feedback. Miss Pat. I like our fire department. I wouldn't have much objection with that, but what is the racial makeup. Of the fire. Fire department. I'm doing. I'm saying that correctly. EMT. Um, So I think with that whole process. We did not, um, involve them like we did with APD. We should have. Um, So I mean, we're not perfect. And I'm glad that, um, Mr. Nelson raised it. At your meeting today. So I wouldn't have much objection. I would be concerned if we don't have. Enough diversity. At the fire department. Is that something, you know, from human resource perspective, Miss. You can share with us. Like, do we have. BIPOC folks there. There are some, there are BIPOC folks there. There's not as many because it's EMT and fire in a western mass. So, but also we would be hiring. For new people. That would be BIPOC. To. To add. And then cross train. And then so. One of those people would be on duty. And one of the crest people would go out to the calls together. And then Miss Alicia has her hand raised. Oh, Miss Walker. I'm sorry. It's okay. Thank you. I just wanted to supplement a little bit of what we have. Thank you, Brianna. For the summary. Of the implementation meeting, but just to further that what came up in the conversation, because we were discussing. How we thought the responder teams would include a medic, or what if a situation came. About where we would need the help of a medic. But the fire department is already understaffed and has a hard time responding because they're the medic that is also used by the APD. They're the. Only trained EMS. So they're understaffed in general. And having a hard time responding. And so. What we saw could be a solution to that would be to advertise or promote the hiring of more firefighters. Because I think they said they have 10 vacancies. At the fire department right now. And so if we can get four of them filled, that would also. We can be able to have the collaboration where if we need. That one EMT responder with the crest responders would be a complete team, but we don't have the ability to have that formation. If the fire department is understaffed. So we're trying to figure out a way. In which we might be able to collaborate with them so that they have the resources they need for themselves, but can also help crests. And also this collaboration also would probably put crests more under safety services rather than social services. Or community safety. Mr. It would put the crest program under community safety services rather than like social services. Because we would be working directly with the fire department. Oh. He raises hand for us. Okay. Mr. Vernon Jones and then Ms. Pat. I think we should learn more about. The leap analysis of the call data. Because you may recall some time ago, I reported on a. Conversation with. Amos Irwin in which his preliminary look suggested that. More than half the calls were really. Requiring mediation. DS and de-escalation services. And. That made me think we probably wanted teams. We wanted teams that would have the resources. That made me think we probably wanted teams that had one person with mental health expertise and one with mediation, the escalation escalation expertise. I've not. Seen data from Amherst that suggests that the. Crest teams. Need a medic, even though that is the model in some places. And I, I have no objection. I mean, I, you know, if we can get something collaborative that works with the fire department, that's fine. But the fire department has been campaigning to have more positions for. At least a decade. And. Well, I support them having more positions. I want to make sure we don't. You know, if we have a medic on the crest team, and there's a call for the ambulances, the medic going with the ambulance and the. Crest team is then a one person team. I don't quite understand how that's going to work. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones, Ms. Pat. So when you were saying that I was not in the reason why I was nothing is that. Crest teams are trained on emergency services. And most of the work that. Crest responders will be doing is also emergency services. As long as. What fire department is advocating for more staffing. It's not going to compromise. Crest staffing. They're really on the staff right now. I don't even know how Chris is going to function. Because if press. Calls can, you know, come in and they need. Medics and we don't have anyone. What do we do with what, you know, we get help from nothing or what. So I think. The issue here is. You know, we need to support each other work collaboratively, but. There has to be sufficient, you know, staffing for fire department sufficient fine. Staffing for Crest. Once in a while, you know, maybe. We may not have sufficient stuff for Crest. I can see how we can collaborate with, you know. We need to get more data in terms of calls. To see if we need to do on a regular basis. Pairing. Like having, you know, both medic and. Responders, you know, going out together. It may not always be necessary, but at nighttime. I can see during the day may not. You know, it seems like crisis seems to happen more. At night on weekends. That would be wrong. But I'm open to it. As long as it won't be used an excuse to on the fund. Press. So I don't want like being trapped. Yeah. So that's, yeah. So I kind of agree with Mr. Ross. In that level. Thank you. Miss Pat. Miss. So. I don't, none of it was to be. I don't think. Tricked, right? I think. The EMTs. Do respond to the mental health crisis is that occur. Right. And. Crest is already short staffed. Any way that you look at it, right? Because we're only going to be on a regular basis. We've got three shifts. So we have to fall on either fire or we have to fall on. The PD to fill in when it crests is already busy. I mean. Like the. You can't just have only one crisis happening at a time. It's not going to work like that. So. I'm just, those are just things to think about. How do we make it? So. Functioning to the best of its ability when we're. Everybody's basically is short staffed. And it's a national crisis. I mean, most organizations. I can't even feel my position in the positions. It's like staffing is like national. It's, yeah. Um, you know. To be honest with you. If I, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I wanted to, if I wanted to. If I wanted to share this I think it's just want. To be honest with you, if I tell you guys that I'm not nervous about. Press program being successful on lying to you. Because what the time council approved. I'll propose. Or what the time was funding isn't going to work. I knew this was coming. But I didn't know this is the way the town would creatively And we recommended having Crest Director, Assistant Crest Director, we were told we don't need it. When the grant came on for DPH, all of a sudden we need project manager. That's a fancy name for Assistant Director. Hello. We proposed staffing for Crest Program. We were told we don't need all that. This is, you know, we're just a trial program. And now all of a sudden we realize that we need staffing, then we're going to collaborate with the medics, which I'm okay with it. But I told you so again, you know, the town council basically disrespected our info. We worked so hard to put everything together. And this is what we got. Now, back to square one, like Crest staffing, this is not going to work out, period. Ms. Moisten. So the suggestion for Crest working with the APD didn't come necessarily from like town council or Paul or anything like that. That happened at the implementation team when Chief Nelson was letting us know how that they, how the fire department was feeling right about now when they've been asking for, and it's not Crest's fault or CSWG's fault, how they've been asking for staff. And they're told there's not the budget for it. And then they're, they're beginning a new program and they need 10 people. So maybe it, right. And so it was kind of like it, like let's think about ways that we can make it work. I do have concerns that there aren't enough staff. And that's why I'm so stressed about what are we going to do to propose for the PD in the meantime, before resident, before Rob gets in place or during Rob, because there's changes that have to occur over there. Because they will still have to be involved in the community, right. If we only have one. The other side of it too is that if we're, if you look at it from the perspective of. We have two. And those two are constantly out and then we have to take someone from another department to fill in that shows us. That we need more Crests and then that's we move forward to budgeting for more Crest folks, not that they shouldn't have honored our first response. But you have to like we, this is where we're at right now and we have to move forward. So we still have to have Crests. We want Crests to be successful. And we have to look at it as every single time there's a call that should have gone to Crest and Crests is already out and we have to depend on another department is more examples of why we need more Crests members. If that works, right. So, you know, yes, I understand the frustrations and yes, I too am worried about how it's going to roll out but I, we have to think about it in multiple, you know, and in a different way to present it right because the end of the day, the proof is there right the data is there that we need more Crest members because it doesn't work because one per shift doesn't work. Thank you, Ms. Moisten, Ms. Kat. Thank you, Ms. Moisten. I agree with everything you just said. However, and I have to say this, I have to inject politics. I'm sorry. But if that council were employees of an organization, they will all be fired for recommending something that is not viable. They will be labeled incompetent. They knew that the staffing they were recommending was far inadequate. And yet they continue to do that and they want their job back from in November. They need to answer to BIPOC community during the election season. They feel that four responders will cover all the shift 24-7 is beyond me. There has to be accountability. No, absolutely. I mean, BIPOC employees that screws up like that will never get their job. Why is it okay for almost all white time counselors to recommend such a shady recommendation? And now here we are. We can't even start the program. This is all a joke. So this is not like surprise me. I knew this was coming. I have created programs, I've run programs. I knew no matter the way they put it, it's not going to work out. And this is an example. We haven't even started the program. So I understand your frustration there. I just want to say it's eight not four. And that makes a big difference either because really what we need is about 16 to 18. So to make it work so that you can have shifts where, you know, if somebody calls out, it's not the end of the, it's not a problem. I mean, I understand your frustration and I can't respond to that for, I don't even, there's no excuse for it, right? I just know that this is where we're at now and we have to still keep moving forward. And yes, they do need to be held accountable and what during the elections and during their times of campaigning people do need to ask them these questions and get at them. Thank you, Ms. Weiss and Ms. Pat. The point of correction is when I said four, I was thinking in terms of four from Crest, from from fire department, that's what it's going to go down to because we recommended 16 employees. And we got eight and the only way it will work is if we get four from Crest from from fire department eight. Again, eight, that's 16. That's what I'm coming from. Yeah, I didn't explain myself very well. And we, we talked about at the implementation team meeting today how to kind of get more staffing through other funds, right? So we have the grant that's coming and everybody is, of course, nobody wants to hire folks based off of a grant because when the grant is over, what happens but sometimes and but it's a big gamble if you run it with, okay, the grant was there, we see that their need was there. And have it budgeted for the following fiscal year, if that, did I say that right so that we see that the need is there, we've used a grant the grant is running out but we the but the data shows that we need to fund this permanently. And that's risky to because also I think Miss Alicia brought up a very good point at the implementation meeting today too as well is that so much is going to be relying on relied on the dispatchers. Right. So Crest dispatcher already current dispatcher mode, the communication of when somebody needs to be called in and when they or if someone needs backup, all falls into the dispatch. And so they need more staff to so you know what I mean like there's that's just it's not enough like they need. Everybody needs more staffing. And so I don't know how we make that happen outside of the grants and then we need to know that if it does go that way that if the data is there and shown that we can get it to keep cut that we can get it to be permanent positions does that you know what I'm saying like I. I mean I mean dispatchers they need staffing that's because the town council council refused to even consider Crest dispatcher. And so that's why we're on the staff. The dispatch program in general, because they did not put any money to press dispatch dispatchers. Thank you Miss Pat, Mr Vernon Jones. I don't disagree with the things that are being said. But I would ask can for the for the rest of this meeting can we focus on the things we can do something about. Oh miss my senior mute. I think what's on the on the table is how do we feel about joining forces with the fire department. Right and then I haven't heard any description yet about how that would work. Yeah, mine is racial makeup. I can. It's a group is okay with that I can approach chief Tim Nelson to learn more about the diversity of the AFD. And I think that maybe we just don't make any decisions until we get the data from leaf. Yeah, I think we just had every meeting when we have these crest follow up so you but you guys can all just guide us as to what you want us to do. And Deborah's not here so that's a pretty big decision to make without her. Yeah. Oh, I see miss Walker has her hand up. Thank you Brianna. Yeah, I just wanted to say so I think the idea was that we just wanted to gauge whether or not that's an option that we should explore so I don't think we have a real idea of what that would look like unless you all were interested in us exploring that, and then we could actually like have some conversations going with Tim Nelson, and in terms of those things to figure out what that could realistically look like and then of course we would come back to you all with that so we, it was just an idea that came up today so we wanted to run it by you all to see how you felt about it. Well I guess my summary is I'm open to exploring it further but only with the understanding that we can't leave crest teams shorthanded or less fully staffed to meet the calls that come in for press. Okay. And I also think the leap data is going to really be able to guide us as to what we need for responders. There's a little loop every week. Does anybody else have anything else they wanted to add to this conversation before we move to the next. Oh, Miss Pat. Oh, it's not adding to this. Do we know the status of the grant application. The grant was submitted but we don't know if we got it yet now. So I guess we can move to our, if everybody does anybody else have anything they'd like to talk about regarding the crest implementation meeting. So, with the senior senior center director leaving. So, are you going to be coordinating that. Miss Myston, the implementation meeting. Yes. So I guess we can move to our last agenda item, which is the ARPA funds. Miss Myston sent us all an email last week, and we just wanted to put it on the agenda this evening as a refresher to remind CSWG members that the town is looking for potential needs of businesses and residential communities as a result of COVID. If you think of any potential or current issues that are a result of COVID and how the ARPA money may be spent, please let Miss Myston know. She emailed us some examples and a funny meme. Yeah, and those and that I have to have that into the finance director at some point tomorrow. So, I have some suggestion. Mm hmm. So my understanding from the report from the health department that they're understaffed. I mean, I'm not a director right now. Yeah, I didn't have director bed, you know, some, some of the ARPA funds should be be considered for the health department the fact that most center center was wasn't very accessible during COVID was kind of like shocking disappointing and disgraceful. It's not a town that the people that need, you know, access to health care, they didn't get it. And that's not okay. So I think some money should go to health department. They need more staffing from the report, you know, that is publicly available I encourage MS residents to read that report is very damning. So money should go in there. I mean, Crest program is a, you know, is a safety issue. And yeah, I think some money should go to to see a WG to I know it's falling in COVID, but I think you should. Yeah. It should go into that. I also think. Our BIPOC businesses. I think maybe I said that already. I don't know. Yeah, that's obvious though. Yeah. BIPOC businesses. That's obvious. Yeah, because I still know that there are some BIPOC folks who did not get any type of funding from our Chamber of Commerce and also from some of the federal grants. Again, issue of access. I'm very aware of some BIPOC businesses who did not get any money. So I'm thinking startup businesses to for BIPOC community members. There's a lot of fees and this is a place where we could have some more BIPOC businesses. That's a good idea. Mr. Vernon Jones. I think that the grant proposal we submitted for supporting the diaspora mental health group to establish an office in Amherst. If we don't get that grant. So the ARPA money we spent the African diaspora established an office in Amherst and be a reserve for all service for press and and serve BIPOC people. Yeah, we talked about that at the end. Tomorrow I'm going to make phone calls to leap or reach out to leap and a DMHA to see when they can kind of come and speak with us so that they can come and speak. I don't know if we both are either implementation or at CSWG I just know that leap is contracted only to do three meetings. I don't know why that's like that but so we'd probably keep those at implementation, but whatever data we have we can bring or if the group chooses things that they should come to CSWG instead then we can do that as well. I also think some of the APA money should go to youth programming. Also, youth at the school. So, some of the funding should go there as well. And I know the town had devoted $200,000 for housing rental voucher and only 99K was spent. I think we should help people who are on the verge of being homeless because they can pay their rent. I think we should help people to folks who are not on housing subsidy who cannot afford to pay their rent in this town. We're talking apartment complexes in the 12 to $1500 for two bedrooms when some homeowners don't even pay that that amount for their mortgage. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Vernon Jones, then Ms. Moisten. Well, I was just going to ask if you have any sense of what percentage of our renters in town are way behind on their rent and only have housing because the eviction moratorium is still in place. We're about to get, you know, if we're only a few months from lots of evictions. And then the other thing Jennifer, I just wanted to ask is it in the server when you're going to call. Yes. And then I think I was just thinking, I don't know how to put it into ARPA in the same way but home buyers or something to help subsidize people in general for rental issues out here like the rents and the mortgages will not so much the mortgage, the property taxes, what really gets people I think, but the the rents out here are are just so high that you know people can't even afford to live here in general and that's problematic and it's also pushing all of a lot of our lower income people out of town and that's just doesn't seem very fair. So, I don't know, in in cahoots with housing but maybe separate to first time home buyers or, you know, rental assistance, or even as, as a subsidy itself, right. Yeah. Yeah, that, you know, that will work. Yeah. Um, you know, I was reading and I I think that that literature came out of say WD but I was reading something on, or maybe something webinar that somebody wanted us to check out. That's actually a community where that you know people can get a right to go for shopping. Because sometimes what happens if you don't have transportation by the time you get to stop and shop or big why or whatever, you buy certain food by the time you get home, it might take you an hour changing boss and everything and during hot weather like milk and even go bad, or people might wind up by going to porno store which is my expensive. I really like to see some sort of transportation program where maybe twice a week, you know, people can call to get a right to go for shopping. So that you know families and children can actually get access to fresh food, food, like fruits and vegetables. And just to just to back you on that one. The bus drops you off at like stop and shop and then all it does is go to big why and then it comes back to stop and shop so you left with like 20 minutes and by the time that bus gets back into town. It's five minutes behind the bus that you ride to go home. Except that not everybody lives in an apartment complex. I didn't say anything about a complex. Yeah, what I'm saying is that the bus can drop people off but it's not necessarily their home destination. Sometimes when people take taxi, I'm sorry sometimes when people take taxi it costs them a lot of money that they don't even have, you know, to, they might take the bus to get to the store but we have to shopping they call taxi because I know it, it happens or they call Uber. And these are the people who are in a very limited income, because they don't necessarily live on bus route. Yes, they will take half of the bus but eventually they still need in a ride to their homes, because the bus doesn't get to everybody's homes is a fact. Unless if you live, you know, close to in a bus stop. It's what I'm saying. Right. I know I was just trying to further say I agree with you, because I've done that before. That's why I know that. But anyway, so transportation. And what else. Childcare. Childcare. Absolutely subsidy. I remember one of the residents saying that so many years ago that used to be you know childcare subsidy for families and I don't know if we still have that now or not. And also prescription. For some people, they have to like manage their, their medication because they can afford out of pocket. It would be nice to get help to pay for some prescription. I remember. The next one is elderly. I remember one by book woman that spoke to the town council that that is very little resources for for senior citizens in this town. It would be good to reach out to that individual. I can reach out to her if she has suggestions as to what, you know, what type of help. She thinks that senior citizens need in this town. That was actually Dr. Jacqueline bro. Bro. Had made a public comment with the town council a while ago that there's not much support and resources for senior citizens. I also want to recommend. I know we talked about this a long time ago in the beginning of our meetings with the idea of an ambassador program for apartment complexes, so that people lowering people who in Amherst where lower income have a voice and so we continuously get to hear their needs from them. And also so that we can compensate people and make them feel included in local government and remind people they have a say to and I think it will empower young people, especially. And then also just setting point on the side, you know, to promote cultures. Is that good enough. Yep. If you have. Yeah, for the fire department. And for our teachers. Yeah, I would add for, yeah. Did anybody else have any more suggestions before we move on to upcoming events. So I just wanted to remind everybody about the active bystander for law enforcement conference that Marcy sent us. There's still another day left. I just wanted to remind group members, if anybody was interested and wanted to go. And I also wanted to bring up Marcy is interested in the CSWG or members of the CSWG attending another network meeting. And she was wondering if this evening I could get a consensus as to whether Wednesday evening around seven would work for more for the group or Saturday would work best for group members. I think she's looking to put something together in the future. Mr. Rene Jones. How far in the future we're talking. I would, I think I want to say within a couple of weeks. I think she's looking to put that together. She'd like to plan that soon. She put something on Facebook. I think I saw something on Facebook. I'm not sure I don't have Facebook. I know at the last meeting we had talked about the idea of putting together a slack group or something like that. Wednesdays are not good for me. Once we get into September, they get there. I profess Saturday evening. Okay. Sounds good. I can let her know. Okay. Okay. I think it will be August 26, 2021. Are there any other topics not anticipated within 48 hours that chair member that members would like to bring up now. Yeah. So I just, I, I'm on vacation again, the 19th through the 24th, so that doesn't give me enough time to post. I mean, if you guys could let me know what we think, I mean, I can always revise it when I come back on Wednesday, but if you guys could let me know what you think might be on the agenda for the 26th, that would be great. Sounds good. And they did have something. Do you want to know that now, Jennifer? No, I don't have to know right this second. I just thought I'd put that out there though and then if I can have it. I think we've agreed that the major topic is the discussion of the traffic issue. And I assume we'll want another implementation update. Yeah. Yeah, I just don't like to post the agenda without having consent like feedback from the group. Yeah. So with all of our business complete, I'm going to call this meeting adjourned. Good job. Thank you everybody. Thank you. So, thank you, Brianna. Thank you everyone to co chairs. Can you hang on for a second? Okay. If anybody else wants to hang on Mr. Vernon Jones, you too, if possible, I don't. So I'm going to stop recording now. I think that's okay.