 okay if you can hear my voice can you let me know okay maybe you can type v in the chat if you can hear my voice clearly all right today it's going to be a very very special day amazing hi hello hello tabish hello adieu as well all right okay i'm i'm being distracted by the music let me switch off the music first okay let me first make it softer okay wow now string has a lot of function like like basically they have like you can add in music you can you can add in a lot of different kind of things as well all right so you can all right okay i can see arun can hear me elvin can hear me as well so in the meantime let me just blast it to to to the telegram right so that everybody can join us now inside the facebook chat all right i hold on right now okay in the meantime okay who is getting ready to learn from shon all right if you are ready to learn can you type shon in the chat because i believe all of you have been following shon for a long time you know that he's an amazing investor right and on top of that he really started his journey as an investor from a very humble beginning in fact he used to be a civil servant right to eventually he grow his portfolio he quit his job and he continued to learn continue to improve himself as an investor and right now he has a eight figure portfolio it's like i think it's just truly truly amazing all right so so i can see a lot of you are ready are ready to learn from shon how how to add to the telegram group okay so so uh yeah you can join the telegram channel below i think there's some banner scrolling basically that's my own telegram channel as well you can join as well all right so without further ado let's welcome shon to be here hello shon hi hi everyone thank you so much for coming in tonight to share with us a lot of insights and actually most importantly is your own investment journey as well yeah i think shon right now is in is like like very busy but thank you so much for for taking out your time to be here to share with everybody your journey right and in the meantime uh in the meantime uh i believe right now because the stock market is also pretty uncertain pretty volatile i think later on as we uh as we continue to have this discussion this so-called interview i i really treated as an interview because for myself i actually want to write a book all right and site this book i want to interview many many amazing investors and one of them is shon so today i take this chance to interview shon his journey as well at the same time i also want him to share with you guys what is his current approach to this market volatility so there's a lot of learning that you'll be taking away from so also feel free to to just tap in your questions along the way as we continue this conversation all right so shon are you ready to to to share with us a lot golden insights golden insights but i mean let's go ahead and have some fun all right thank you all right so i think i believe some of them maybe the first time knowing you or maybe they have not really know about your how you get started maybe you can share with us exactly when do you get started investing and um and what makes you actually want to start actually frankly like when i first started right i never really wanted to invest for a few reasons because when i was young you know i always look at those tv show and last time in my era hong kong drama was very big and those people who go into the stock market somehow always end up very bad they lose money they jump now from building and there was a kind of impression i had when i went to university to study under nanyang business school i remember very clearly that my professor said that most people can never beat the market so don't even try he said that don't try just stay out of the stock market that stick with me and i didn't dare to invest and i felt that investing was a risky it was speculation and what happened was when i was in the military i wanted to actually make other income other than just my salary i don't know whether you guys actually have have that so one of my colleagues his name is called Sufian back then he told us that hey making money in the stock market is something that's doable but you know i was very very skeptical my mind was closed until he eventually just show us his results and he was like i remember it's like maybe quarter of a million i can't remember the exact amount but it was big enough for me to be wow it's like you're younger than me early 20s and you have so much money so i begin to like go down on my knees and say shifu can you guide me of course i mean that there's a joke i i really asked him can you guide me please and and i remember he was saying oh you just need to read these papers go and read this book and but he wasn't he didn't stay in the military for long after after that he went off to do his own things probably like going to become a full-time investor or something like that but i it stuck in my brain that someone could actually do it so that's how i want to invest because someone that i personally know really show me that it could be done so i mean if you have someone who has been making money in the stock market and they actually show you i guess that they will inspire you so i started investing in the stock market yep i see so it's really because you see that other people around you that it's possible that that really makes you want to get started right and because you also want to create a different kind of lifestyle for yourself is that right and that's why you want to have different sources of income that's right that's right i i remember very clearly that this thought of wanting to make extra income came in after i got married initially i just wanted to like do well in my career get promoted and go for a very high-ranking uh become a high-ranking officer uh but when i got married i remember very clearly on my way back from the honeymoon i was looking at my wife she was asleep beside me and i realized that you know we we were we were together every day during the honeymoon i really love her her presence and her company but once once we go back i have to go to work and i mean time time time at work is quite a lot you see so i realized that most of the time i will not be seeing her and she'll be like sort of like left alone at home i didn't want that i want to actually spend time with my family spend time with my wife with my children and that's where i started uh exploring around wow wow i also want to ask the audience right now who are listening who wants to spend more time with your family if this is something that you want can you type time in the chat and you see a lot of people are here uh hello your nurse hi some some people are saying hi to shon as well hello hello fella as well all right so so i also want to ask because i understand that when you first first started right if i'm not wrong you make some money but eventually you also lost quite a lot of money which is $60,000 how how did that actually even happen okay i remember very clearly that i eventually started by attending some short term trading causes and we used this thing called cfd so back then uh cfd was something that can let you leverage up to seven times and i i mean with the ignorance uh came the confidence correct i thought that wow i should be very good at investing now now that i attended some causes um and i leverage a lot so so what happened was i initially make some money i remember my first stock that i bought was in a singapore market and it was bread talk so after i invested the bread talk i was i i i i made i made some money and i get i get a confidence and then after that i begin to actually tell my friends about it so i said hey guys very easy to make money and my friends haul money into my account for me to manage for them it was back then and that's where suddenly you know you make some you lose some but i i i couldn't manage the whole entire amount well and with the leverage with an inexperience i lost a lot of money within three months i lost $60,000 and it was a very scary experience so that that's that's how you but i let leverage up wow so so it's i think it's uh the the learning point is actually leveraging can be very very dangerous especially you don't know what you are doing right i also want to ask who is in the audience who actually leveraged before and you also faces losses maybe you can type l in a chair l sends for leverage uh yeah wow we have very international audience we have umar from pakistani we have uh i don't know how to how to name this person i don't know how to pronounce it but from Cambodia welcome to see every single one of you i think the beauty of investing is it really doesn't matter where you are right as long as you you can you have your internet connection you have a brokerage platform you can already get started investing and uh jovina had losses before by leveraging all right as well so make sure be careful but i'm just very curious like you lost $60,000 and that is not just your money it's your friends money together how do you have the courage to even continue like like especially right now i believe a lot of people are also facing losses what's your advice for them actually on the high side right maybe maybe if i just lost my money i could have given up i'll say that hey the stock market is a scam there's it but because i lost my friends money i i have to help them make it back so i have no choice but to really figure a way out and the amazing thing is my friends right they they are awesome friends they they didn't really blame me you know they just say hey don't worry i'm sure you're figure a way out so they actually added that kind of confidence i mean they added a kind of pressure on me by telling me that they are confident in me and say don't worry we know that you don't you didn't intentionally lose our money we know that you're figure a way out so i felt a certain responsibility and i really learned around i attend even more causes i attend so many causes until i have no more money to attend causes and because of course no seriously because right they mentioned like they have a particular special system to help you make the money so i remember i i learned about those 20 days breakout systems i learned about a 200 days ma system there's so many systems you know and until i couldn't attend causes anymore i went to people who attend other causes that i haven't attended yet and i asked them should we trade systems or not so we form a group we trade systems and that's where things happen during the trading of the systems one particular guy joined us and he taught me this system called buffetology he will set my house i remember very clearly so each of us we were sharing our systems how to do breakout how to do technical analysis by the way i'm not against technical analysis it's just that i'm pretty bad at it so we all share their specific entry and exit rule then suddenly when is this guy's turn he told us okay let me tell you about the buffetology rule then he told us you have to look at earnings per share you have to look at the financial statement and he showed us how to actually do it and how to calculate the value of the price after listening to him about like 15 minutes i i was sort of lost already because it's like so so many things to look at so boring you know because looking at chart is very visual looking at the financial statement of a company wow there's so many things to handle i i didn't know what he was talking about but after going through one round out of courtesy i bought i bought the stock that we analyzed together which is nike so i bought a stock there and i forgot about it and i literally bought it on the spot okay because we were trading together at night the rest of us we do short term trading we do all sorts of trading for him he analyzed we bought nike i left nike there didn't touch it anymore i continued to trade for probably one year plus and my trading didn't do well you make money you lost money i tried forex i tried options in the end at the end of the year i broke even a broke even meaning to say it's not including the 60k i really lost that 60k so i at the end of the year i'm still negative 60k i still okay i had 100k it was down by 60k so i'm left with 40k but but but i i actually look at the nike remember we bought nike it actually doubled in value from 30 dollars it went to 60 dollars in one year i mean obviously i'm not saying that every time we buy a stock that can happen but that really caught my attention because i didn't care about it because there was no entry as it grew you see and so it was just i and ho and i just bought it out of like out of out of courtesy to that guy okay and then i realized hey this particular stock i didn't do anything and one year later it was 100 percent the rest of my other trading techniques i split them into different amount of money to test different systems and none of the systems got me good returns after one year sometimes up sometimes down so i'm thinking if i put all my money into that mickey i could have made a lot a lot of money so i went to look back for the guy and say hey uh that time can you tell me again how to choose nike and he referred me to this book called the buffertology by mary buffett and you may think i'm quite a frog in the well but i didn't know who was warren buffett back then you know you will be very maybe now you think well how can anybody not know warren buffett but it was in 2005 2006 there wasn't so much internet access you got to read a lot to understand all this is it so i went to search about i mean there was internet already then i but it wasn't something that we use every day there when i saw warren buffett i feel so turned off because the first picture that they showed is a very old guy and say wow so old i don't i don't want to make money when i'm so old i want to make money when i i'm young so i wasn't very interested but it really it really made me i mean it really made me 100 so i went to read out more about warren buffett and i realized that this guy is snow jung you know when he was 30 years old he was already a millionaire starting from a capital of 9 000 plus uh so he really started investing at 20 plus within a few years he became a millionaire by compounding the money so if a lot of you guys thought that warren buffett make money slow it wasn't true he made money actually very fast in the earlier stage of his life now he has slowed down because he has like 300 billion to manage so i became very interested i studied more and i was a bit sick of losing money so his rule number one was never lose money which i became very excited and and i really studied a lot more i even fly to the us to learn directly from the author mary buffett and i became in love with the idea of value investing or fundamental analysis because after you understand it it is so much logical so much more logical than looking at price movement price movement it is a lot about market psychology which when you talk about psychology it is very subjective so so that's where i i i how i got into it the dimension also constantly changing right like it's very hard to predict is that what you mean yeah uh when you're right you're right when you're wrong you're wrong and and i realized that maybe it's because of the of the trauma i had when i lost a lot of money using technical analysis up to today i just felt that i'm not very good in it it may be a limiting belief but i'm okay not to use charts using fundamental analysis i can make my decisions i also want to ask the audience here like what kind of approach do you use for your own investment journey doing more like chatting if it's more for chatting for you can type c uh if it's more like fundamental analysis can you type uh f in the chat all right let us know as let us know as well but in the meantime i can also see that you are definitely somebody who are always testing and learning like like you actually went for different causes you like have different portion of money to test out different system but that eventually make you really have this uh this conviction that value investing really work right buffered way of investing really works because you test all different kind of patterns yes uh i tested out but again i want to mention that i don't think that i am uh every okay every method that i tested all right i would like to say that i may not have mastered them because i do know of some people who are very good in technical analysis and they spend years mastering it but for me after one year of testing i felt i didn't see the results so i i sort of stopped there uh and i guess everybody can find different ways of making money for me i found a way value investing i think like just like what shaw mentioned there are different people who are using some of them are using fundamental you know uh like for example uh lew mr lew is using charting i think it's like you need to find something that's truly suitable for you right there's no one size fit all kind of uh kind of investing method but does is it suitable for you can you see consistency uh from this and i believe for shaw he see the consistency in in just buying and holding great businesses and and and and his portfolio start to grow from that right so uh also very curious for yourself right like um when you are uh what makes you focus so much on education because you know like like you actually invested a lot money right depending different causes as well to eventually fly to us to learn from mary buffett that definitely also costs quite a lot of money like what makes you focus on education so much because i realized i i i couldn't figure figure it out myself so i realized that when i don't know how to do something and i try to do it i can actually spend a lot of time to really figure it out okay so what you have to spend a lot of time you have to spend a lot of money which i really lost a lot of money i also i don't want to actually waste any more time and i realized that the stock market has already obviously told me that i'm not good in investing based on what i am at that point in time i really lost money it's a it's a very strong data point and feedback to me so i better go and learn from someone who has done it before it's basically getting a shortcut they they compress years of experience for me and install it into me giving me a higher chance of success yeah and and and uh for yourself how how why am i listening to my own echo okay and now it's okay uh for yourself right do you think like this process of mindset shift right from initially wanting to time the market using charts and to eventually just don't really can i say that right now you don't really care about the market like like this mindset shift how do you think that people can master it faster because i believe once the the investor have the right right form of mindset the investing journey will become so much smoother how long does it take you and how what do you do to master it better hey frankly uh i can tell you is is one of the most difficult part because in the end after i learned investing i learned about like the stock market is like a crazy psychotic you will go up you'll go down on theory it all sounds very nice but when it really happens the kind of emotion you get is is i mean for myself it is very hard to manage i have to constantly struggle even like when i say okay hold on to my stocks it's going to be okay right on theory on high side it looks nice but at that point in time it was so difficult so so personally for me right one thing that really helped let me just also pass you guys this link uh is to read the letters of warren buffett uh i'm going to just post it there see whether you guys can read it okay uh yes okay so the letters super super amazing because literally you are compressing all the experience and knowledge and when you read it especially go to those point in time you read it you read all the all the years where there's market crash like uh 1991 the tech boom bubble and uh if now you can read back at 2000 a 2009 you see during all the crashes what did warren buffett say how consistent he is and he you mean it makes you feel that hey this guy is also a human and these these are the top patterns so that's where it helps me a lot so you use that to also reinforce your your learning and and strengthen your mindset is that right that was something that i did and of course uh i i do have a mentor mary buffett and it helps a lot when when you interact with her personally and she can she can tell you hey it's okay sometimes you just need someone who looks confident and has been there done that and tell you hey it's okay i've been through that as well it's going to be okay reading is one thing reading is just worse but we can see we can see the mannerism we can see her relaxed face is okay you feel you feel really better of course after a while when you go back to your room you see the stock market you see the portfolio you don't feel it's okay again so you need a constant it's a constant struggle it's frankly a constant struggle and i don't think i gained that kind of confidence in a very short period in time i i i just honestly share with you i i feel that in order to look at the market drop look at my portfolio drop by 50 80 percent and don't feel a thing it probably took me more than 10 years seriously 10 years i i felt scared along the way so it definitely is a lot of patience as well to be a great investor but of course like like during these 10 years i believe you do a lot of things to hone up your mindset as well as your skill set and and that's why um when when when that that 10 years after passing through you you really have that kind of come right so so i think some people are also asking right like um during this major market correction which is happening right now right like when all the companies you know highly valued suddenly crashed um to all time low the person is asking do you think that warren buffer way of investing still work actually actually you already answered the question yourself right because the warren buffer way of investing right is to wait for all these highly valued company to crash you know i'm saying if the highly valued company doesn't crash they are always fairly valued um it is very hard to get value investing value investing is to buy something under value and in order for them to be under value they must be priced wrongly they must be valued lower than what they are supposed to be uh but of course eventually there are some companies that's so strong they are rarely you rarely can find opportunities that they are under value you can buy them at a fair value and let them grow okay so let me explain to you the warren buffer way of investing it is very intuitive okay it makes a lot of sense one so is to buy stocks that is under value okay got it there are two ways for the stock to be under value it can be under value based on current situation the stocks is worth here now the price is here how do you assess the stock is worth here based on maybe certain earnings based on certain cash the stock is worth here and then now it's here now this is based on current under value you can also uh assess the stocks based on future value in the future the stocks will be worth here but right now it's here so you can see that it is also considered buying a stock of value but now i mean there are different ways to mention it uh growth investing whatever terms you use it doesn't matter to me you see most important is you can see that a particular value will increase it will increase either because it's under value now or because it's under value based on future possible value so so this is the way to assess it so uh logically speaking there's no way that warren buffers investment doesn't work because you always want to buy something under value correct so so maybe maybe what people think that maybe the way of valuation may have changed along the years okay so for example last time they will say like buy below book value buy below p ratio this is the way of valuating okay so if the valuation method doesn't work anymore you're going to change the valuation method but the principles of buying under value you cannot tell me it doesn't work what it makes sense correct okay so so so i do hope that that actually explains so it seems we are talking about the market crash right which is happening right now what's your current approach um how do you cope with uh do you have any sense of emotion right now seeing the portfolio dropping um uh if not like or if yes like how do you cope with it okay maybe maybe i see whether i i think i was expecting this question so uh i was actually sharing this earlier let me see whether i got my tap hang on a minute uh yeah oh that right yeah the chart the chart so so i think i think some of you saw it right yeah let me show this okay so this is a market cycle and okay the market cycle this is not a 10 years market cycle this this is probably what happens during a market downturn you all can see this correct can see y'all yeah maybe if we can like make it bigger that we better uh i wanted to zoom in to certain portions oh yeah yeah that would be good so so so let me let me explain to you guys so the market right last year i i really felt that we were very complacent everybody think that they are market genius market is going up i mean well during a rally you are able to cash the the trend is good but you also must know how to how to exit which is which is not easy as well correct then the market is coming down right now and right now everybody i don't know where are you right now are you anxiety are you in panic i mean all these are market cycles now let's let's let's this is theory correct let's bring it to a actual market situation let me let me just let me just screenshot the s and p 500 one year data you all can see this right okay zoom it out okay zoom it out this is s and p 500 do you all do you all see where wait hang on you all can see correct some resemblance yes it's always like that you see uh after you go through 2008 after you go through even 2012 there's there's so many so many data point to show you that the market always respond like this let me see whether i can how do i make it transparent oh okay hang on uh if i make it a little bit transparent okay you can see right this is this is exactly i mean it won't be right can you see that just one year only oh one year so you must understand that okay if we go to spy let okay let me unshare this uh and then we go to the spy actual chart all right in the meantime guys uh so far have you guys been learning something if you have been learning can you type l in a chat all right so if you find that one of the things that Sean is sharing it's very useful helps to really just make people be less scared more peaceful at the same time really having a better mindset when it comes to investing feel free to share out these uh life to other people so that you never know right when when when these appear on your feet uh when your friends actually start learning as well you may just really help that person to become a better investor i think that really helped right just share share it out all right thank you everybody now Sean please continue okay so we can see s and p 500 right when we talk about the market cycle just now we show what a market euphoria anxiety and all that right it always happens you see you'll go up come down now now when you look at the whole entire big picture okay i want to i want to ask you guys a very simple question okay this is this is what the s and p 500 looks like since 2016 until today probably that's what i don't know six seven eight years okay so you can see this is the stock market movement now the question is this the question is right now the market is here right do you think it will go all the way down to i don't know 2016 time okay or or if let's say i am going to pull it you see uh if i pull the stock market a lot smaller in the bigger scheme of things this is this is for the past is it 10 years okay in almost 10 years in the bigger scheme of things okay where do you think the market is going so the next five six seven eight nine years can you tell me will you go up down or sideways if you if you look at it in this perspective okay long term long term yeah in case in case you don't know right let's zoom in here okay because every every few years there will always be a downturn so let's zoom into right here this was in or this one okay let's go back to 2000 even 2012 right 2012 it looks like this it goes down a lot so whenever it goes down a lot it always looks like it's going to go down some more right but eventually let's zoom out it always goes up okay it always goes up and and let's say look look at here 2000 even 2015 okay this deep is actually quite a lot if you in case you all didn't know it goes down come back up then goes down again wow it's so scary but eventually it always goes back up now the reason why it always goes back up of course we don't just look at the past data we must understand the the logical fundamentals of why is this supporting the price to go up very simply now this is this is S&P 500 okay hang on let me just explain when they talk about the stock market going up or down is talking about the S&P 500 let me let me just go to the components of S&P 500 uh oh the component data is not here but let me go in S&P 500 component S&P so the top 500 companies in the US including great businesses like Apple, Microsoft and all this yeah Apple, Microsoft, Amazon all this are you telling me that for the next three to five to six years Apple is going to make lesser money and the valuation is going to go down I think it's very unlikely look at look at all this okay even Facebook even like NVIDIA, JP Morgan now some of them may not do well but these 500 companies they will always put the best inside and I mean just just take the top few do you think Microsoft is going to like sort of like disappear or go down for the next five years or are they going to actually charge you higher for the next windows and are they going to charge you higher for the xbox and even linking apps I mean all this will actually go up right so so you think about it every single day you must understand something every single day actually I like I like something that my friend mentioned you must understand that every one of us every human being we are thinking of ways to make our life better don't you agree I mean are you make your life better Chloe or are you trying to make your life better always better who is like every day seven over billion people are thinking how to make more money how to make their life better how to invent better products and therefore the economy overall will just become richer this is normal human like spirit correct so don't you don't you all agree that based on all this based on innovation there's no way they're going to go back to iPhone 4 or iPhone 3 correct they're going to have iPhone I don't know 20 and then when iPhone 20 is out there will be more technology and the whole entire world will go out so when you remember that perspective it is a lot easier to really invest and hope short term wise your wealth goes down it is part and parcel of the game okay so this this one I wanted to share but talking about this right like like I totally understand and I I'm personally also very bullish about the stock market right but but will you ever think about what if you know things go wrong like let's say for example like really a catastrophic happen maybe the meteorite strike and stuff and and how do you and if that's the case maybe whatever things that we are assuming right now may not happen right how do you protect do you do you think that it's possible like if you think it's possible what ways are you doing so that you can our hedge against your portfolio or protect against your own ignorance well you see ah okay so so let's talk about the possibility of things going wrong are there is it 100% confirmed 100% that stock market will definitely go out in the long run well nothing is definitely confirmed correct but again again so so I put it into the extreme level so do y'all there to go out to the streets right now is it confirmed that or car will suddenly deviate from the road and then just not into you there's a possibility there have been news that show that the cars just drive on the road and kill somebody right you cannot you cannot okay I'm not asking you to anyhow risk your life but the chance of that happening is is not not that high correct you cannot let that paralyze you so you need to take action so what do you have what do you do when you go out on the roads you don't you don't walk on the roads when there are many cars on the highway correct you make sure you obey to the rules you make sure that you you keep yourself safe so in terms of the stock market number one you cannot expect the stock market to totally crash and lose everything and therefore you get paralyzed and not invest you got to invest so how do you invest you invest within certain rules and within certain logical boundaries so one of the most important thing that you have to do right is to create a portfolio should you buy call should you sell put all these are doable if you are willing to diversify and put into a portfolio a lot of people tell me about diversification no need portfolio concentration you can do that but you must bear the risk you got to bear the risk for me I'm not willing to bear the risk I'm going to diversify and each one that I invest in I also have a possible like I will say expectation that who knows something may go wrong and I'll lose that amount for every single stock or every single other investments that you invest you got to have a portfolio at least have 15 to 20 stocks if you think there is two liter I don't know man you you for those who buy like five six stocks look at your portfolio now and tell me how you feel okay so it is ready to protect protect yourself so to yourself like an ideal size of diversification it will be like 15 to 20 stocks a balancing of can be tech companies can be very stable consumer staples company so that your portfolio it's all weather is that what you mean I don't really do so much into sector management for for Bruce, Bruce Greenwald who is from Columbia University I think he mentioned 15 sectors or 15 stocks 7 industry okay for me I don't really do that if you want to put all 15 stocks or all 20 stocks into one particular industry which you are very confident will continue and you are very clear of the industry go ahead I mean you can actually buy an ETF of a particular industry so there's this there's there's actually a lot of examples of people who concentrate into particular industry knowing that the industry won't go down it's just that if you want to bet on two particulars individual stocks and put everything in there I think it's extremely risky so there's this guy called Shelby Davis he only invests into insurance stocks you can actually search on him Shelby Davis and what he did was this he concentrated all his portfolio into insurance stocks but he diversified into different insurance company and eventually if I remember correctly he turned $50,000 into 900 million into 900 million and and during the tech boom during all those times like when us the stock market went so high even insurance company stock price went crazy high P ratio of 1890 he couldn't find any stocks to invest and uh he couldn't he also don't understand technology stocks he don't understand a lot of things so what he did was he went to look for insurance stocks in other countries Japan India and he bought the insurance stocks there because they are P ratio their valuation is low and eventually that's how he turned 50,000 into 900 million so but I haven't seen investors who really concentrate that much and then make a lot of money and became like on top of the list so Monish Parbhai Monish Parbhai who was self-claimed disciple of Warren Buffett because he actually literally copied whatever Warren Buffett buy there was one point in time he actually invested into 10 stocks equal 10% 10% 10% 10% and one of the totally got wiped out closed down and his portfolio really dropped 10% and took him a lot of time to recover so he realized 10 stocks is two liter that's why eventually after calculating and stuff like that 15 to 20 stocks is really much more safer even the best investor in the world they acknowledge that I see and and and it's also about investing within your competence right not not just for the sake of diversifying but really understanding the industry that particular company and that's why you will choose to diversify all right correct you need to you need to understand what you're investing in I see so for yourself right like what habits do you cultivate or what kind of daily routines that you do every single day that make you that in your opinion that has contributed to your success in your investment journey wow I mean the daily habits I mean okay most of the very strong investors as far as I know this these are not my personal like self-taught habits but basically read a lot and and you must okay when I okay I need to I need to explain this like there was Warren Buffett says that he read about 500 pages a day 500 pages it's like let me see is there a book to actually illustrate 500 pages it's literally like one book is about 200 300 pages right this is like double the size maybe you read two books a day you see yeah and you read like annual reports now when when you read right I also realized that okay a lot of people read but they read on surface meaning you say right they read and then for example you ask them hey what book are you reading then they can tell you all this book very interesting and that's it but I can tell you a lot of the very strong investors they read at the application level because it's synthesized so there are three levels of learning and reading the first level is just to remember oh I remember what I read if you cannot even remember what you read then then maybe you can watch YouTube maybe maybe some people learn better by watching so you remember second portion is you can summarize so okay I read this and let me summarize for you into a framework third one is application so you you you can remember actually I realized a lot of the very smart people right when they are reading or learning they are already thinking how can I apply this particular point is it relevant to my current portfolio can I actually review this they are really thinking how to use it and then they eventually use it so I personally enjoy reading and learning and I push myself to always think how can I apply this I mean you don't have to apply everything of course but always think of how we can apply this eventually you can choose not to apply it but your brain actually thinks that way now it helps you a lot in decision making in the stock market because when you absorb the reading of other people a book that is written by someone who has years of experience is basically again giving you the gift of years and decades of of really like they are knowledge you know it is so it's so precious so I remember rereading this particular book that is recommended by pitan it is actually by any duke okay the the particular okay she is the she's the world champion in poker and she's yeah she's a world champion in poker and it's extremely relevant to investing it's very interesting so in in this particular book right she mentioned this thing that I thought was very good she says that quality outcome a quality quality decisions don't always lead to quality outcome okay so example you analyze the stock you do your value investing you do your valuation you study everything and then eventually you position size you portfolio you buy their stock their stock tanks and then you lost a lot of money so you need a good decision and your process is good that doesn't guarantee your outcome but a lot of people a lot of people don't understand the difference between outcome versus decision so they see that oh this is a lousy outcome I lost money meaning you say that my process must be wrong that may not be the case you read you into it and then you say no no actually my process is right so what you need to do as strong investors as poker players so what does it mean for her when she plays poker she calculate odds she say what should I do now should I actually okay I don't really play poker so I don't understand the terminologies my card should I should I put in more money and things like that right every time you make a decision is based on statistics and calculation like the probability of winning yes the probability of winning is high therefore I try to bet more and when she does the betting sometimes she lose and and and for normal people after they lose they will feel very emotional oh shucks I must have done a bad thing correct for her she doesn't she says that no I've really done the best thing based on all my calculations therefore next I'm gonna do it again I'm gonna I'm gonna go through my process again so you have the discipline of always making high quality decisions okay so I'm a bit deviating here so as investors right when you have a checklist of investment you keep doing it over and over again regardless of one or two outcome you know that one outcome sway you and say oh it doesn't work anymore or maybe you are lucky you listen to someone who say oh you should buy this stock and you bought the stock you bought the stock without starting and the stock price went up and you make a lot of money then you say wow I should listen to the guy more and then suddenly whatever analysis forget it throw you out of the window now the quality of the decision was a lousy one you cannot just buy stocks but the outcome was a good one can you see unfortunately some people when they do that they taste good outcome and they start to become very lousy investors train yourself to be a strong and good investors and understand that no matter how strong and good you are there will be instances the outcome will not be good but you continuously be consistent okay sorry am I deviating to know that I think this is so much wisdom I at least kind of resonate to one of the book I forgot who's the oh I if I'm not wrong it's the most important thing by hallmarks and he also talked about the same thing right it's like it's like you cannot judge your your your your decision based on the outcome right because sometimes it could be a lousy decision but then you end up making a lot of money but doesn't mean that that person is a great investor and vice versa so so I think it's really really a very strong I learned a lot from this yeah well I think some people are also asking like like like when you assert your portfolio return do you just buy stocks or do you actually do options as well some of some of them are even talking about what structure warrant do you use derivatives I do I do so so I do use options and I use them in a way to leverage myself okay so so this is the portion that by the way please don't just listen to this segment and start to use options without having proper training uh maybe actually let me just let me just share with you guys my you one of the youtube video that I'm very proud of which is I call it the most the most powerful option strategy I really like that one okay I love that too so so this is this is in case in case you all didn't know is basically taking something that I know can win and okay so so I the the whole idea is I buy a very long-term call option on s and p 500 I mean you can do that with other stocks but s and p 500 is pretty much proven if you hold s and p 500 for a period of three five 10 years right I mean by the time you hold it 10 years there's no 10 year period of holding s and p 500 that you actually lose money if you know you cannot lose money and you have a super high chance of making money to me I think it is it is wise to actually go in that direction and then you can leverage okay for me when I leverage I use options to leverage in a very in my opinion is a safe way so so this video explains everything you can turn 20 000 into half a million in probably less than 10 years and if you like even put in even more money along the way that's where we can make tens of millions and another of my friends he did it 50 000 turn into 8 million in I think 15 years or something like that so so you can go and do backtesting it is something that is very very doable yeah it's called para kupa strategy super powerful very para kupa but yeah yeah you're saying just just to explain why is it called para kupa in case you all didn't know so so so para kupa is actually a character in super mario you all know the tortoise that super power the tortoise the tortoise with wings so the the story behind it is there are some investment that is like tortoise slow and steady so s and p 500 is slow and steady I mean they are not really slow correct they they make about maybe 8 to 11 percent depending on when you buy it yeah so so they are very steady if you add wings to them they are steady and they can fly so why not why not do that rather than try to speculate some some things that you may not know fully yep oh yeah shon come to uh just go back to your previous poker uh sharing our book is that uh let me let me just check okay it is by any new book okay I think it's definitely one of the book I want to read because recently I think like like I also started cultivating this habit of reading and I just like what shon said there are so many wisdom and insights that you can get uh from many great investors you don't have to just read about investing I think I think it's about you know also learning from different views as well so it's called what how I raise sample is it I think it's just I'm thinking in best if I'm not wrong this is the book yeah okay well cool cool cool I'm going to read that okay if for those who don't like reading you like to listen actually uh YouTube there's a lot of uh I mean they she shares all the Ted talk she has all the interviews she has all the podcasts and it's very very interesting cool so like right now if you are talking about using the power kappa strategy just to add on a little bit I believe some people are also wondering so would this be a good time to add into it uh what's your take on that I think it's okay I really think it's okay so so okay I mean if you want to be a little bit more sure cry you know we just want to show you the the psychology of market cycles right so you can you can wait a little while more because very likely from observation there's probably going to be a recession because there's a whole new topic so if you really want to wait a little longer I think it's okay sometimes you can wait for confirmation meaning you say you wait for the market to to start to move upwards again then then then you go for it you don't you don't really have to rush it do it you see okay because you're giving it time so you can you can stand by and then wait for it I personally feel maybe one practical way you you again you take your money you split into two or three segments so example you've got five thousand uh to to to invest into the para kappa strategy the s&p 500 divide into three segments and you can invest a bit right now buy a long-term call based on how however much you can afford then you wait okay the because the worst thing is this the worst thing is the worst thing is after if you invest everything now and it goes down you may feel very I would say yeah and sometimes the worst thing that can happen to an investor is you feel helpless and you feel that there's nothing you can do so at least if you speak to phases and there's still something you can do you feel a little bit more in control a lot of investors don't like to feel out of control that's the thing so so speak to phases now I I mean I then why don't we just wait for everything to recover before we invest correct because there also may be a tendency where you take all the money and you keep waiting and waiting and waiting and you see oh it seems to be going out but maybe you're dropped out and you already dropped down and then you go out so you keep waiting until you miss a chance and it goes all the way up so if you're going to phases and start investing a bit here and there I think it is probably the best thing you can do right now yeah it's just like either it's averaging down or averaging up but then you have to start doing right so that when opportunities come you at least you did not miss out or when you drop further you have additional bullets to fire right okay um like for yourself right like um when it comes to since continue this topic of crisis can you share with us like what happened to like generally when you tie to this crisis right which you have tied to numerous crisis before what happened to your portfolio like like um like what kind of information do you see it from this that there is the time right every time you are willing to go through a crisis invest and really continue to believe that yes the market will go up eventually and eventually that's right your portfolio will suddenly grow at a super speed it will really go very fast you know because after after a market like hit the bottom and when it recovers it recover very fast and very very long so for those two those who went through 2008 you know that once he is 2009 bottom bottom up then from 2009 all the way to even 2000 and sure right uh no even longer than that when was the last one 2000 and it is a very long run so while your your your portfolio doubles almost every two to three years if you are using options it can double almost every 1.5 years it's very very fast imagine your money double at 1.5 years you know so you put 50 000 in one and a half years later is 100 000 then it becomes 200 000 then 400 000 then 800 000 then 1.6 million and you just need a probably like five times five times 1.5 so so you can see that and if you add even more money in right i can tell you that's where millionaires are made during the crisis they make decisions and along the way they add in some more wow so that's why like like during like a crisis that comes so rarely actually has been like two years right keep on going out and right now this is such a great opportunity to really start investing do you think so yeah i think so i think i think it's time to actually go in phases as i mentioned start to invest the people's because if you keep waiting there may be a chance that you become sort of paralyzed you're not used to your masters your investing masters is gone you see so when you really need to invest you you can't invest because you forgot how to when i say forgot is a real thing for those who try not investing for a while you go back and lock in and you try to click i can tell you the whole entire feeling is so so heavy and when it's very heavy you can't invest for those who have been investing you know what i'm talking about it's a very real thing how you feel actually affects how you how you act we shouldn't we shouldn't let that affect us but seriously it affects us if we go back to like for example 2008 financial crisis i remember there was a time that you talk about you share with me one experience that you believe in this thought but then because other people keep on saying that no no it's going to crash and eventually you actually sold it off how was it like actually wow that's not it's that's not aig i remember very clearly up to today because it actually dropped from $200 to $5 it was a very scary job right but based on that it's crazy it's totally crazy and and and the thing is this when you look at $5 it is way below their book value they have a lot of cash so even if they go bankrupt or things like that right there's enough cash to tie them through or even the amount of cash to get back your make money however after i buy the store one of my friends keep telling me that another person another guru tell him that this stock is over they are going to actually wipe out their cash everything is gone i got very scared so so when the price dropped from five dollars to three dollars my friends keep asking me hey i told you already correct did you do anything and i didn't do anything correct so so by the time it dropped to half 50 percent right 250 i couldn't take it the pressure was so was so high i keep thinking of what my friends say whatever analysis that i take of did about the cash about the book value went totally out all my logical explanation went out and all i can hear is what my friends say and i can imagine i imagine all the bad things when the stocks go to zero my portfolio is gone and people will laugh at me and i feel like a loser i imagine all the terrible things and eventually i sold it off then within i think two months from 250 it went up to 50 uh went up to 40 so if i if i have held on to it right five dollars goes to 40 it's almost nearly 10 times out eight times up you know yeah so a very bad mistake i mean but frankly speaking back then i also invested a lot in their stock if i have position size and portfolio right yeah it was it was almost like 30 to 40 percent i think 40 percent of my portfolio so the pressure is very high if you only invest five percent 10 percent of your portfolio i think well you can just let it go i think once again it goes back to portfolio sizing and diversification as well so that you do not make yourself going through unnecessary stress that may just cloud your decisions right that's right i see but then during that time i'm also very curious so since 30 to 40 percent of your portfolio is already over there what else did you do that um like like did your portfolio actually accelerate a lot due to the 2008 crisis okay yeah i wouldn't say accelerate a lot that that time i also okay that time that particular stock aig i i i share with you all something really really very openly most of the stocks that i buy right i i tend to copy someone else whom is a very good investor who actually bought it so so just to be very open uh aig was bought by this guy called adam koo before and aig became a lot of money that's why i had the faith in aig and and uh but but okay after that a lot of people say a lot of things and i i got shaken so other stocks that i bought was like a well spago uh i also bought bank of america a lot of financial stocks because back back then it was a financial crisis yeah so if you know bank of america you know uh bank of new melon well spago sounds like i'm a genius to pick all these stocks that went up a lot right it was all warren buffer stock so i'm not i'm not ashamed to share i'm not ashamed to share that a lot of the stocks that i that make me a lot of money were stocks that warren buffett already picked i'm not ashamed uh the good news is when well spago i remember i bought it at $30 i actually sold put the premium very high very high so i think when i sell a put the premium can go up to even five to six percent wow good money so so per month per month last time during that time there wasn't weekly options uh yeah so when when the price went down from $30 went down to $11 right i almost went crazy because again i also put a lot of money inside well spago the the good news is this the good news is warren buffett came out and said that wow i regret uh then i said wow what did he regret about well spago he said i regret not having money to buy even more what that wait when i when you hear warren buffett say these kind of things you gain a lot more confidence that you it's going to be okay and eventually within two months from $11 it bounced back up to about 28 where i can sell a 30 core and then the stock bounce back and he Hoover around 30 plus for almost 1.5 years i keep selling core selling core selling good make a lot of good good premium but eventually i think by 2000 was it 2010 the stock starts to up a lot and then you never get back down oh i should have had on to the stocks because i calculated right seriously i calculated i just buy the stock and hold on to it i would have made more than all the premium that i collected because that time the transaction fee was also very high uh now now but if i bought a core i bought a core of of well spago and just hold it right i would have made a lot more money than just selling options and getting premium so so basically less is more sometimes actually doing less actually can make you more uh in fact in fact for investing at least that's what warren buffer believes that passive investing will give you a lot more results than active investing this is what he truly believed so i think some of you may know he even make a bet with those hedge fund managers he said that if any of you guys can beat s and p 500 i'll give you a million dollars over 10 years and eventually those who take on the bet none of them were even close to s and p 500 written they were not even halfway of s and p 500 s and p 500 you just buy it just hold it there for 10 years and okay i see so um i think it's super super interesting how many of you feel that like whatever insights that shaw and sherry is very interesting right if you think it's interesting right it's like i in the chat all right so so like i'm just very curious right for example how do you have that kind of patience you know because sometimes like for example your well spago right like a kind of like ding dong ding dong for like one and a half year it didn't really move much what makes you you know continue to have this this this strength hey it's okay i'm just going to you know hold on to it um yeah honestly honestly every day was a nightmare every day was so scary no i mean for those who invested i still can remember back then i was using 2008 whatever smartphone that we have i don't think we have iphone i don't think it's iphone back then uh it's probably some nokia something and they will just pop out wow the the stock market went out by how much and i felt happy well yes i'm making money then then it went down the next day and i felt like so depressing every day was a struggle i can tell every single day it affected me i'm not kidding you so whatever whatever things i learned from mary buffett whatever books i read it helps me feel good temporary okay but i i don't know frankly i don't know a shortcut of how to get rid of those feelings but i'm good i went through it okay i i now now now it's like well how many years ago then on high side it sounds very easy but that the time every day was a struggle i forced myself not to look at the stock market but in the end you guess what even when i don't look at the stock market the whole day i'm thinking hey did it go up or down today and i still want to find a way to find out so for me speaking i don't have an easy way of going through there but i i guess nowadays okay so i mean some some some some of the people may know that we have like a coaching program mentorship program and some people will feel like why do you need to like charge for a coaching program but personally back then like mentioned the thing that really made me stabilize for the longest and made me feel sane uh made me feel like not go crazy is where my mentor tell me it's really okay and and that effect of is okay probably lasts me one or two days then the third day i'll feel crazy again so you ask me how can i be patient and all that i don't have a magic magic answer to that i really don't have it's a struggle every single day until eventually when you see your portfolio go through a few more crises and every time keep reading keep learning keep reflecting that's where after one you become you learn to become sort of like i've went through this already and i remember the last time i go crazy every day and and things still pan out the way it goes doesn't mean that i worry a lot more it gets better it don't i can tell you very frankly uh really like when some some stocks go down right i become super religious i really pray very hard i'm not kidding i really pray please please help me i promise i promise i promise got a lot of nonsense uh so so i can tell you it's the real thing it's a struggle so some of you know what i'm talking about but but i think like having like what you said like having that environment uh at least prevent you from from going crazy and at least point you back you know even though you humans tend to deviate a little bit you know but but then if you constantly get pointed back eventually you will you will be more and more on the right track do you agree yes each each time you go through you just come out stronger uh but not totally perfect is it so every time but but but but really i think almost after 10 years i remember by 2012 because there was another deep and i look at it drop and i oh well buy more when i when i realized i i really don't feel anything anymore then i track back wow it is it is almost almost 10 years uh almost 10 years backstage where you don't feel anything anymore you diversify and you know that uh whatever the stock market eventually will go up just a matter of time don't worry too much go and do my eye go and play badminton and do other things we our company always do a lot of different sports i think i think sports also help right just help you relax we have like badminton day we have kinesthetic days and it's very fun so so how do you think you know investing has changed your life like like what kind of freedom does it give you right now or or do you think that your lifestyle have changed a lot since you become a successful investor uh okay i i don't really know whether i'm a totally successful investor yet frankly speaking i think there's a lot more to learn and i think when you think you're successful sometimes there's the time you become complacent and that's where things will start to go haywire i always feel that i'm a learning investor i'm always exploring and every every next stock i buy i'm confident yet at the same time not confident so so i always think that i may be wrong okay but so that's why i don't get to like totally throw everything in or like be so arrogant to say this must be the right one uh well i i think i think investing uh before we talk about the lifestyle i think it really developed the character a lot it makes you see a lot about yourself how you react when money is on the line and when when you see situations like go go go not not according to where you plan what kind of things goes through your mind and after a while you begin to realize that you can't control a lot of things what you can control is how you respond and how you actually like react to certain situations right so so i felt it's a very strong personality development it gives me a lot of freedom from fear and uncertainty i think that's more important than money first because once you have freedom for from needing certainty right a lot of things you can do say well it's not confirmed but that's uh that's and then see what happens and and the worst case should not be able to kill you and that's enough to test so so of course when you do it that way money eventually come and i want to share with you something a lot of people have the misconception that full-time investors we we we can make money income this is true we actually sell goods and things like that we make money income but the rear rear uh season investors we don't look at it at the money basis we look at it as an annual basis and you can actually draw down some from the annual and a lot of okay this one seriously y'all can go and check a lot of uh very seasoned and full-time investors right continue to make money from other places when you learn how to make money from other places like some of them they do like i don't know some some sideline business some of them continue to work in certain places uh they they do that right because first of all i don't know when you have a lot of money and you have nothing to do it's not the healthiest frankly it's not the healthiest it makes your brain goes a little bit more degraded so it becomes slower so continue to keep yourself active in certain things but the unfortunate thing is you can't be active in investing if you want to be successful so if you cannot be active in investing and you need your brain to continue to work right you must go and find something else you must find a hobby find something else to work and when you find something else to work that can actually give you income that allows you to make better investment decisions but if all your whole entire livelihood depends on your next investment decision it's going to be very stressed and the high the chance of you making mistakes is very high so it is a very mental and inner game when you talk about investing so overall investing the income i mean it's good to have money right at least one problem is solved uh i mean it gives me it doesn't okay now frankly speaking it doesn't it doesn't make your life a lot better in many many sense but at least the money portion frankly once you know to make money right you don't have that worry about money money becomes more like a game more like a challenge well i guess i guess for people who are worrying about money right now i'm please please pardon me i i don't mean to be like like condescending or saying like oh money is not important it is important but once you have the ability to know that you can make money from from like a stock market from investing given time given the correct conditions there's where one big portion of the issues of your life is is settled then you can focus on other issues there probably needs more attention and it's more important yep yeah i totally agree kind of remind me of this quote about like actually wealth creation is the ability to create wealth it's not about how much wealth you have but your ability because if you have that ability even though you lose everything today you know that you'll be able to of course i don't wish anybody to lose everything but but you know that you have this ability to make that again i think that is the ultimate confidence that uh anybody can have and you do not have to worry right because you know you have that ability right and i and i think like what shone said about the character development um it's very true like in order to become a great investor you need to develop traits that character to become that great investor rather than um yeah so what kind of attributes do you think a great investor should have or what kind of character do you think that person should develop i think first of all right the first one right is is really humility okay it is it is actually a spectrum both spectrum now humility meaning you say that anytime it may be wrong so you must have a sense of healthy fear for the market you know what i'm saying you cannot be too arrogant okay i i i see a lot of people's downfall is when they are too arrogant they think that they are sure to be right okay so you must have a sense healthy sense of the fear of the market at the same time you must have the confidence so you know it's too spectrum but it actually makes sense so if you look at uh like anyone warren buffett or anyone right we can actually see that they are very humble you know even up to today they will say that oh i'm wrong or they make they admit to their mistakes they know that they are not perfect and like warren buffett say i'm an idiot for not buying amazon and things like that you see so i think humility to say that you may be wrong and that's why you continuously need to learn is very important okay at the same time you cannot be so fearful until you cannot do anything so you must ultimately still have confidence in your analysis and say okay i may be wrong so but i'm still confident enough to put maybe five percent ten percent into this particular investment so this is one one attribute um of course other attributes like we talk about patience we talk about discipline wow it's not easy ah it's it's really not easy again there's it is a continuous journey to to build yourself and the thing is this ah you can lose it one you can lose it you can lose your patience you can you can we are all humans i've seen very strong investors making making money well in the stock market you know they they make like maybe 20 percent 15 percent which is very by the way i i don't know i don't know about the audience here but 15 to 20 percent consistently is actually very strong it's very strong yeah and as your portfolio gets bigger it gets harder to actually make the kind of results okay because uh uh like now you want to go and buy 1 000 contract of course you may not you may the the orders may not be few you know so so it is it gets harder and harder as the games becomes bigger and bigger so i've seen investors who make very very good money in the stock market and then they they can they can fall for stupid scams one i can tell you is so ridiculous one it's like i thought that they are very smart in their money i mean even for myself but sometimes when something shiny object comes out right and people start to say a lot of things your confidence of yourself begin to shaken also like wow maybe i should jump into this as well the the only person whom i feel that is really super steady unshaken is warren buffett really i'm not kidding man you go and look at him there are some things he said really i don't i don't understand bitcoin forget it don't don't don't invest and he really can don't invest i think some of us we will say hey don't invest but we secretly go and put like a few thousand inside but we will we will test some money that we can afford to lose is it by maintain 100 discipline uh i mean maybe warren buffett does that also but we don't know right so to maintain 100 discipline to stick to your rules is not it's not easy so personally to manage that i set aside some some some portion of my portfolio to test things out at least yeah my so so i call it the 10 percent 20 percent 70 percent 70 percent is definitely all those i'm i i've tried for years i know it's going to work s and v 500 Berkshire Hathaway all the stocks that i really analyze i'm i'm quite confident 70 percent of my portfolio consists of them 10 percent is really my r and d fund like pitan kiong tell me about certain yeah i i i've been investing together with him for so many years and he will tell me about this talk and i say i don't understand i don't invest and then you'll go by 200 percent i've seen him perform magic so many times uh i mean of course not every time is correct but he has been correct so many times until i feel like if i don't invest the next one i'm quite stupid so i i will put a bit of money to go and test it out follow him so so far those that he tell me and i invest and uh it seems to be going quite well so so there's the pitan follow pitan a portion of the portfolio okay i mean you're not supposed to see this kind of thing as a as an investment trainer or what right but this is the truth okay so that i i can scratch my each i can scratch my each like people say what i never invest in luna okay but i'm not making fun of anyone but bitcoin all that just just test a little bit but but after that i withdraw okay i didn't invest too much into that and talking about uh pit right tomorrow i'm having lunch with him i'm going to do this interview with him as well so so for those who want to get pits inside uh when when i publish my book i would i will let you guys know so so make sure stay tuned i think there's gonna be a lot of things i'll be personally learning from him as well uh i think there's a very interesting question like like some people are asking like in the past you also provide one to one mentoring um like do you still do that actually actually what makes you want to stop coaching investing i i am because you are such a strong investor right but what makes you want to pivot to um to doing other things yeah i tell you honestly uh i think investing is very boring i mean after a while i feel like i'm a naggy mother you know it's it's just telling you the same thing or it's like because because investing is actually very straightforward frankly you go and analyze you have a portfolio it is so straightforward most of the time when you do one to one mentoring it's not like exploring new ideas like coming up with new things it's more like hey dude just do it like it's just like it's accountability uh it's like emotional and conveying and all this it's very naggy after a while i just feel like i'm just sitting there hey do your push up do your push up every time i say the same thing come on you just play a recording of me yelling at you it's like don't don't torture me i feel i feel like being tortured keep repeating the same things you know so and and and frankly also like uh there are certain portions in time whoa okay i don't know it's like when i when i tell people about investing uh a lot of times it's it's like almost i having to scold them like hey why do you just do the simple things make money kind of things and make money why why why are you always after fancy full stuff frankly it's like honestly i mean you also talk to me so many times already Chloe my answer always the same one you might sort of just go and repeat the last piece of life right you know that's a hard part like you know right just like for example people also know that oh exercise is good or vegetables is good it doesn't mean that people do that right so so that's why the environment and accountability is important just just get a just get a muscular guy from the gym and scold you la say the same thing kind of video right okay so uh all right so let's continue the questions uh i just have a few more questions to to really enjoy the conversation so like if you can turn back time right let's say turn back to 10 years ago um what will you tell yourself to do and what not to do actually uh if i can really go back 10 years ago right i feel that i spent too much time in the stock market already really because the less you do the more you gain so it's like the the selling call selling put thing la you just put your money into buying a long-term call then you make money and then the rest of the time go and spend time exercising do handstand do calisthenics come with children spend time with parents uh stock market don't need to be so complicated one just just read and then set and relax and and let it go so but you know 10 years ago if you tell me that i i can't understand on you see i cannot understand but if let's say i can really see myself 10 years later and that guy come and tell me hey brother don't don't don't look at the stock market anymore check them maybe half a year once once every half a year check them every time there's a annual report that that's it a quarterly report so every three months look at it update a bit and then decide whether you still want to have it treat it professionally don't need to have so much emotion i think i think it will make me a lot uh a lot happier but but that can't be done right i think i think investors do need to go through the phase of having all the anxiety all the worry i think it's it's inevitable i just feel it's inevitable yep i see okay so so it's like basically go back to simplicity right like doing less and and just sticking to what works for for yourself because everybody is different right right see okay so for yourself right like do you have um like i believe you have already shared a lot of advice but if you were to really stream down to maybe one to two key advice to investors especially those who are let's say just started or maybe struggling right now what's your advice for them actually very simple you just need to survive long enough to really know what we are talking about can really yes because i can tell you whatever that you hear from us right now whatever books you read and things like that it is different when you go into the market so so that's why it helps me a lot why why after i read buffetology i make money i still want to go and look for mary buffet still listen to her real life talk to me is because when she is there to guide me into the real market it feels a lot more i mean feel a lot more confident like really there's a there's a there's a multi-millionaire billionaire guiding me i want to hold on to her hands and really tell me this one correct or not that one correct or not so so you can see i can tell you whatever we tell you right now it sounds very interesting you can write notes do do do my mapping but when you go into the stock market all these things we tell you suddenly the meaning becomes different like i didn't know that that's what it actually meant okay like like maybe swimming i can teach you swimming on powerpoint slides you go inside the sea okay the sea suddenly got waves there there are things that we can't explain to you one there are things we can't suddenly got a jellyfish come and sting you suddenly your leg cramp so many different scenarios so so so i want to tell this very importantly if you want to become a good investor ready invest one two three years to master the skills and in order to really master the skills you need to survive long enough because if you put all your savings or all your money into this particular stock and it goes down that's it game over for you we are going to find more money to actually invest so make sure you diversify into different portfolios and treat them like an experiment your first okay unfortunately speaking your first 2050 50k it is actually paying school fees seriously to the stock market and and you have to actually analyze every single trade and learn the faster you learn and the faster you can control your emotion the faster you become successful but it takes time it can't be done over like one webinar it can't be done even over let's say three months it can't in my opinion you have to you have to really experience all the market ups ups and downs you have to read all the crazy news that tell you that the company that you buy is going to close down and and and even experience some of them closing down that's where you really become a well-rounded and solid investor so survive long enough survive long enough to figure out what we are talking about what is actually happening then you'll become successful it's always also about like it's not about time in the market but time in the market right and in order to have this time in the market you must make sure you you you diversify portfolio you continue to survive and so that you can eventually benefit from from these years in the market wow people are asking oh is it normal to lose 15 to 20k actually it's very normal that's true but it can be avoided it can be avoided so if let's say you got 20k and you split into let's say 10 stocks each of them 2k the chance of you losing all 20k is very low and of course if you analyze all and you select all of them carefully one actually in fact you got 20k if you can divide them into 20 stocks you take you take a random random kind of a thing and anyhow pick 20 stocks in the stock market the chance of you losing also not very high the chance of they have done they have done the studies before they asked a chimpanzee chimpanzee monkey to randomly pick stocks they form into a portfolio let it hold for like few years it's to make money on as long as you're willing to hold and you diversify okay and I think like it's so uh I believe for this Facebook user she's probably starting right like as your portfolio grow bigger right like like losing 15 to 20k it's actually very normal but because your portfolio size grows bigger right let's say you have a 200k portfolio or 300k portfolio losing 10 percent it's it's possible right because stock market goes down up and down every single day so it's really about like I think at the end of the day it's like um you you need to bear the volatility but you know that you are doing the right thing you you are like making the quality decision I think that's more important yeah I want to share one perspective also so so let me ask you something uh let's say let's say I invest okay let's say we talk about 10k right 10k 20 stocks is 200 000 is it okay let's let's say example I have 200 000 and then I place into 20 stocks each one 10 000 and then two or three of them let's say three of them totally closed down and then that 30 000 invested in the stocks become zero is that considered a loss what do you think is that considered a loss how many closed down let's say out of 20 stocks three of them closed down so 30 000 30 000 dollars gone from the market is that considered a loss okay I want to share a view uh it is how we define it why don't you consider it a business expense think of your whole portfolio like a business okay and you are like a venture capitalist so your your portfolio is shone private limited or whatever your name is okay so so so let's say it's mark private limited or or weightier private limited so weightier private limited has a capital of 200 000 dollars and he allocates it into 20 stocks so three of them closed down then some of them go out and go down there three of them take it as a business expenses okay you know I'm saying that so if you are doing business and you're private limited will there be expenses answer is yes so treat some of the stocks that eventually go down as an expense and eventually you look at it as a whole you're still making money on typically you're still making money and some of them will be a super like wow grow by 10 times right actually based on my experience uh usually your whole entire portfolio some will close down some will go flat it is the one or two that shoot up a lot that pull your whole portfolio out for those who have been investing long enough you know that this is true okay true and I think it also like like like coming back to this corporation kind of talk right because like recently I'm just reading uh Brian Tracy's uh this book called no excuses right and he talked about one thing I thought it was super insightful it's about like you yourself is your own corporation like imagine if you are your own corporation how like like as an investor we definitely want to invest in companies that continue to keep on growing continue to point resources to grow the company right so the same thing as I asked as a person right how do we uh how investable are we right as a person it's like we keep on pouring resources to hone our skill set to become a better investor to become a better person as well so so uh I think at the end of the day what he's trying to say that it's really about investing ourselves investing our own education just like what Sean said right the reason why he invests so much money in his own education to eventually able to hone that system to become a eight figure investor he is today is because he really focus on keep on improving himself I think that is the the most in my opinion like that's the most important take away for me as well oh wow Mavik is saying that gone fishing with Buffett changed his investment journey and that this book is written by Sean you have not read it make sure you're gonna get a super good book as well I love this book it's also the first investment book I read okay all right so I think it has um almost coming to a one and a half hour right maybe everybody can help you help us type down what is your key takeaway from this session it's called almost coming to a one and a half hour like crystallize what you think that it's the most useful insights that you gain from Sean's sharing and and what is the actionable step that you can start doing from now on to in order to become a better investor right so so Sean before we wrap up any last advice or or or yeah for for the audience like which is close to 500 of them watching right now any last advice okay I think there was someone who mentioned how to start investing if I only got three to four thousand correct start investing is just that don't you start with three to four thousand but you don't you don't stop at three to four thousand continue to make money continue to invest investing is to let your money work for you so before they are big enough to sustain your lifestyle and you must understand our sustain your lifestyle means every year you only can withdraw one time take take off for the whole year's kind of expenses so so it is it's not like a romantic thing where you invest few months later you can become like a full-time investor but is it possible definitely is possible okay so so make sure you start investing and you continue to invest and build up this portfolio so the what maybe maybe another perspective is this if you really want to become wealthy you got to become a professional money manager okay like what Chloe mentioned if you are Chloe privately admitted or Sean privately admitted well you want to invest in yourself same thing if you are your own money manager will you set yourself or give yourself a bonus look at the way you are managing your own money if let's say you hire yourself to manage your own money will you feel like slapping yourself or will you say hey good job thanks for managing my money so manage your money look for extra cash that you are spending unnecessarily take them throw into the stock market when I say throw it is like for example if let's say you have been watching disney plus Netflix a few things you subscribe to a few things and you realize hey why do I need so many things maybe you sacrifice one or two of them take the extra sixteen dollars hundred dollars add up together this is how much I'll say for the next two years take them throw in the stock market is money that you are wasting anyway so if you waste in the stock market it is not a waste right it is investing so become your good own money manager okay oh yeah one more thing I think someone mentioned that they don't have a gone fishing with buffered I'm not too sure whether the bookshops are still carrying them amazon probably still have okay for those who are inside my telegram group let me tell you what I'll just I'll just send the pdf into the group okay do you want that if you want that you can type yes so I'll just give you guys the book for the e-version into the telegram group for free okay what's your telegram link I can type down also let me just type type type down okay this is the link okay well the well flap okay then later I'll just put it inside the telegram group I I spent a lot of effort to write that book because I wrote that book two times the first time I wrote it is really just talking about step by step investing then my brother uh as in my my my actual brother called called Samuel he read the book and said wow I cannot get past the first chapter or second chapter very boring but when he said that uh it's like even your own brother don't want to like I mean don't give you face tell you the truth right so I actually rewrite the whole thing into a journey form so I I actually wrote it two times which I sort of enjoy because a lot of people email me told me that they really enjoyed the yeah it's very conversational it's like reading a story book that you find that it's so interesting to read like usually investment book can be quite boring right but when you read gone fishing with buffer it feels like you are in a story and you become the character talking to buffer I think it's a very brilliant way of really making investing so simple and and inspires a lot of people to get started investing as well and in the meantime yeah make sure yeah yeah you should who will you hire to to become Warren Buffett okay so remember to join uh Sean's telegram channel as well wealth lab in right I think this weekend is that this weekend you're also like I guess like what Sean said right investing is something that he wants to keep it simple but at the same time uh on his own free time he wants to make sure he comes even test and learn in other in other ways generating income as well so I think this weekend is an NFT workshop right is that right it's not by me it's not by me I invited friends who have been investing like hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars into NFT into crypto to come and actually give us a step by step workshop and I want them to guide me to buy the first one because I keep wanting to go in but I realized that if I do it myself myself I just learn from friends who are already making millions right so I asked them to teach me and at the same time I said hey can you just teach everybody now I just want to be very very upfront during the weekend workshop they do have their services that they are providing and all that so they may do some promotion and selling but they promise me that before that they will really teach us step by step then then if you need our services you can go for them I want to be very very upfront on that I'm personally joining because I also want to learn NFT as well so I'm just curious uh anybody inside this uh is this this this webinar right now want to learn also that you have not registered you have not registered you want to learn can you type NFT in the chat just let us know because I believe for Sean previously have already closed closed off the free ticket right like like yeah yeah so count uh Natalie was saying that he can't wait for the NFT workshop as well I believe you have already signed up all right so okay there are some people are typing in Roger NFT Clement NFT as well so Sean do do you want to reopen some I need to ask I need to ask the lecturer also okay so so you'll give me some time and but if you are inside my my my what uh telegram group if they say okay I will I will put the link inside there because I already closed the registration is it so so I I mean and it's not I'm not the one giving the lecture so I must I must be respectful of them so so give me some time if you're inside my group I will go ask them probably they'll say okay but I need to ask them first I cannot be I just give it like that right okay okay so make sure join Sean's telegram channel as well in the meantime you can also join my telegram channel where I also share a lot about options inside stocks investing inside the link is right at the scrolling banner at the below basically it's Aligato investor so I hope everybody learned a lot today and it's so good to see all of you are still here until like 9 o'clock and I hope all of you took away amazing insights just a lot of you share about your insights right most importantly as really start investing all right for those who have not started and really start cultivate yourself with that right mindset and right now is really the best time to get started you have not right so make sure take action and thank you everybody and thank you Sean as well can everybody help me type thank you Sean in the chat and we look forward to attending this weekend nft workshop as well we will see Sean over there that's what I believe right you you will also be doing some sharing or you will just complete as a student as well I will say everybody let's welcome the trainer there I doubt let's see I really I'm really not an expert I'm really just exploring and I want to learn because I don't I didn't even have an experience I can't teach right I only can teach theory I want to go through the yeah all right you guys keep on learning and see you guys next time see you thank you everybody