 We are with us Philippa Brown global CEO of PhD and we literally have her all to ourselves for the next 30 minutes Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. I'm delighted to be here in India And I think since your last India visit I think a lot has changed For the first time last year we had digital addicts kind of over taking the television addicts in India Which is huge so I want to understand from you from a media agency perspective Is it more procedures today to have a client who's investing more on TV in India versus someone who's spending a lot of his money's on digital? So that's a really good question. The way we look at it. It's not one or the other It's really what is the best mix to deliver the objectives of your clients business And we have a brilliant tool called investment planner which sits within our platform omni And investment planner helps us understand how much we will be spending on TV versus other channels like digital And so we never really focus on whether it should be TV or digital We really do focus on what's the best for our clients to reach their target market And that's the way we approach it. So we're very media neutral as opposed to what which way we should go Okay, and in the in the late night late 80s if I may say so most media agencies were focused largely on the media buying process PhD at that point in time had emerged as a challenger brand which was standing for which stood for Creative strategic media planning. It's been many many years decades since then and you're a much larger Older agency. Do you still consider yourself as a challenger brand? Yes, we do and I think the thing that gets misinterpreted by challenger is that it's about the size of a business It's not it's about a mindset And our mindset is very much about thought leadership pushing the boundaries challenging the status quo Innovating, you know anything to do with creativity. So that is still essential to our DNA and Really at the heart of our core values So that remains without a doubt and some of our largest brands like Diazio, for example Have a challenge of mindset as well. And they're one of the largest companies in the world So it's not necessarily about size. It's more about behavior and mindset Okay, and you know on one hand you have scarcity of attention from consumers Which I would call a challenge On the other hand, you have this option where the consumer is available 24-7 across mediums Which I would call an opportunity. Would you say the opportunity Dwarfs the challenge or is it vice versa? It's such a good question I think this is something we're sort of graphing with at the moment One thing that we now talk about is it's not about reach just pure reach. It's about attentive reach So we've built this algorithm into Omni which allows us to measure attentive reach not just pure reach So we spend a lot of time looking at which channels will give us the best attentive reach not just reach and So if you can blend the two of them, then that's really what we're looking for is really the whole I suppose the sweet spot as they say And you know interestingly, I think you were appointed the CEO of Ph.D. Globe with CEO Little before the pandemic 2019 Did the Black Swan event that we all came across tamper with your blueprint for the agency Globe? Yes, I mean it really did. I have been running Omnicom Media Group in the UK And I'd always been based in London and UK based And when I was given this opportunity by Omnicom to become worldwide CEO I was very excited and I imagined myself, you know going to see the 6 000 staffs that I have across the world and then yes the six months later the pandemic hit and I basically ran The the network from my bedroom in London, which was Mother while they're disappointing So yes, we had to like everyone we had to Change the way we operated. It was all remote And now I'm just so delighted that we're out and about and meeting people face to face like here in India So it was a very very difficult start. It didn't stop us though from doing great work You know we during that period Well, we just won Diageo. So we transitioned Diageo We won Chanel over that period. We won Ekatera We had brilliant retention rates. We became media network of the festival at Cannes in 2021 So we still did fantastic work. We just did it in a different way We had to adapt really quickly to that. So it wasn't the start I was expecting And now I feel like I'm sort of you know on the road seeing different markets getting to see clients Face to face because I do believe you can't beat face to face In traction. It's it's the best way But we we did well. We had three very successful years or two two very successful years, which was great Which are the big clients you're meeting while you're here in India? Well, I'm seeing a number of clients. I'm seeing VW group. I'm meeting with HSBC. I'm meeting with Diageo So I'm seeing a number of clients, which is great Okay, you know a little after the Phantom make I think we could kind of leave it behind us and normalcy was just on its path to return We saw the slowdown in Europe. I want to understand from you. How did that impact phd's revenues? Globally and for specifically in India. Yes, I mean PhD I mean it started in London But actually our biggest office is in America and we have been growing hugely in apac as well including india as you know You know, um, we had brilliant billings growth in 2022 So we're much more balanced as a network now So overall our global billing still grew and so did our revenue across 2022 So the fact that we've become less european based as a network and more America and apac has really helped us So the impact was was less than you'd have thought really Basically because we've grown so much in the other regions with work line clients cautious in Europe while spending at that point in time Yeah, I mean there were some markets that had real slowdown another and obviously, you know, it wasn't just about the pandemic We also had the war in russia, you know in ukraine with russia and that had an impact on europe as as well But still the uk still spending, you know, some of our clients were very Pandemic, you know, it was it was more about less about What they were spending how much I was spending it was how they were spending. So for example Um our commerce revenue and billings just grew massively. I mean e-commerce during that period was you know Huge for us And so there was a shift in the way clients spent as opposed to not spending at all And I think we've all learned a lot from previous recessions Is that when clients stop spending behind their brands, it takes them longer To recover then if they kept the ad stop going and kept the existing for exactly and kept the brand equity Growing and and stable. So I think that also meant that there wasn't a complete drop-off at all So, you know, it's not like that's they're going from a standing still So, um, yeah, we've seen quite a lot of that happening I was going through the revenues of of networks across Uh, I realized the omnicom closed 2020 with 14.29 billion dollars Organic growth of 9.4 percent almost 10 percent WPP has seen a strong performance in 2022 public publicist group registered double digit Organic growth and this was not the nicest here considering there was slowdown the war in russia like you said So what were really and a lot of uh laydowns uh layoffs happened in the tech in the tech sector overall So what were the factors that kept the media agencies afloat and growing at that? I think um, we've really um grown our capabilities and we've really created products that our clients want So our data and tech product like omni and omni studio have um really Really caught the attention of our clients and they're really investing in our products in that area I've mentioned commerce. That was huge growth for us. I mean absolutely huge growth our content Our sponsorship division. So all these other divisions now I mean we are truly sort of at the forefront of not just media but offering the complete marketing and comms solutions for our clients And that's what's really really driven our growth. The other thing is clients are coming to us now I'm asking us to help them with new operating models So, you know, all our consultancy products and services are becoming really important to them and to us and driving our revenue growth So, um, I think you know, we're now really delivering a lot more than media planning and buying It's a much bigger suite of products and services and that's why we're growing so much Okay, if you were to talk numbers, what kind of growth has phtc in india and globally last year? Well, we don't we don't give any as specific numbers on markets, but it's it's in it's plus. It's plus It's in the plus, but I can't give you the exact numbers. Is it going to be double? I can't really say But it's good. It's it's a strong performance. It's one of our top markets Because I think overall umnikom has remained cautious and it's outlook for 23. I think three to four three to six percent I think five percent. Sorry. Uh, growth is what they forecast. Yes So just trying to understand would it be the same for pht even in india or is it going to be different? No, I think I think it's all aligned We're going into the market cautiously optimistic Um, you know, there's a lot of talk about the being an economic downturn But actually when you look at our revenue forecasts And the invest the forecast from our clients We're not seeing that come through. In fact, we are seeing growth in terms of our clients spend in 2023 That's what they're forecasting. So whilst there is quite a lot of our cautious Uh, cautiousness around the world and this is around the world And at the moment we're still seeing positive growth Being forecast for 2023 Um, but I think you know, we've just got to keep on monitoring it And seeing what the impact of the war is seeing, you know, um, there's some still supply issues There's obviously impacts of inflation in different markets So we've just got to understand, you know, what that means But the moment all clients are forecasting majority clients are forecasting a growth in spend for 2023 Okay, and just want to understand where does india's fit in the scheme of things for pht? What kind of revenue contribution does it have overall for pht global? Yeah, a rough number would do It's a it's an important market. It's a you know, it's a top 10 market for us. Yeah Okay And you know, we've seen a lot of layoffs happen in the tech sector. Did you see a lot of uh, good talent Come back to the agency that has been a challenge. Did you see this workout in favor of agencies? Definitely definitely without a doubt. Um, I was talking to the team earlier in the town hall That obviously we've had we had the great resignation which happened Um, you know at the beginning of coveted and you know, people were going off and doing other Rolls and you know going to tech companies. We've actually calling it now the great return Because we're having lots of people come back um from those tech companies, um, and that's meant that the pool of I mean, it's been great for us, you know, because we've got real capability and talent coming back into the industry and Agencies are a very attractive place to work. We work on all different types of clients. You can learn lots of different skills Uh, we invest in our people. Um, I just talking about some of our training and learning development programs We're putting in place for this year And so and and we have flexibility of working as well. So, you know It's it's a very attractive place to be. So, yeah, we're having people return from those businesses back to us, which is great Fabulous. So you spoke about your global clients. Uh, which are the biggest Indian clients at this point? The biggest clients that we have in globally in India in India in India. So, um, VW group would be one of our largest, um Clients globally as would Diageo is huge. Um, so, um, you know Skoda, VW, Audi or the Diageo brands are very very big here in India. Um, In terms of the local clients, I think Vivo is very big, isn't it? Um, so, yeah, we've got a number of big big clients here in India And are you very proud of the number of new clients that you've won and are you happy about the number of new clients you've won? Yes, I've been echo and Laughing cow if I'm not wrong. I mean, which are the others if you might Yes, yes, no, no, I'm I am and in fact, um, the pitch slate is massive at the moment. Um, The I mean, obviously number one priority is always going to be on client retention at number two, we always have to look at, um, new business to drive our growth forward as well and also You know to keep keep people motivated and try, you know, working in different sectors as well But overall, yes, the new business performance in India has been fantastic and globally Um, we're actually at the top of the new business league Net new buildings. So the way that's worked out on convergence Is that it looks at the difference between Gross buildings so net new gross buildings versus losses and phd is right at the top number one in net new buildings So which is great globally, you know, uh, conversely, I think in India I was going through the RECMA local agency ranking Phd didn't really come in the top 10. Um, at the same time, I think, uh, in the last three years numbers, you know It did appear on the eighth position, uh, in the, you know, the growth rate So I want to understand from you what what is where is the scope for growth here in India? Yes, it's a scale a problem or is it something else? No, I didn't I don't I think scale is a problem. I think, um Really now we have to double down on what makes phd different. So all the thought leadership the create our approach to creativity and innovation Um, we've got a really talented senior leadership team here Um, we had had some turnover issues Um, and now I would say the team is really settled and I think 2023 almost would be their best year ever actually I really do believe that I think they've got everything in place. There's no reason why it shouldn't be Okay, you spoke us. Uh, you spoke sometime back about how client relationships today are much more than about media buying Yeah, so what does the client of today want from a media agency? Yes. Yes. Well, it's lots of different things actually So I think one of the main things that we have to focus on As a agency is understanding what clients want Um, because we shouldn't just be selling to them We should be understanding what clients want then packaging up what we have in terms of our capabilities and talking to clients about How we can help them achieve their objectives and grow their business So that is a real trick and something, you know Part of the learning and development program that we've put in place called phd learn is about brilliant client leadership Um and being able to work with clients to be able to deliver to those Um questions and help clients grow. So, um, you know, that's it could be anything from helping them with their commerce Um, you know, their e-commerce challenges right the way through to as I said Helping them with a new operating model, you know, what do they in house? What do they offshore what to You know, what sits within agencies still, you know, they're also asking us a lot of questions about how they can Work across the whole of omnicom not just omnicom media group But other areas. So how can we work all closely with omnicom pr agencies or omnicom retail agencies? So that's become a big question now as well and how we can go as a collective Together to our clients. So there's a whole host of things really Inhousing a very big challenge as far as yeah, well We embrace in housing actually because there's certain data and tech that we can help them with and provide in housing So we're not sort of scared of in housing at all, you know, we we then become all the consultancy to help clients Um, you know in house certain products and and we do agree that certain Things that you know part of the marketing mix should actually be in-house, you know, it's it's just makes it They may be Well, I mean, yeah, I mean there's uh, well, there's you know, a whole host of things But quite a lot of clients now are doing, you know, some of the parts of the commas in house Um, you know in um, seo is going, you know in house So there's quite some of the content, you know, um is in house So there's quite a few parts of You know the marketing mix that makes make sense for it to be in house without a doubt Okay, you know another threat is, you know, we always hear about our consultancies are kind of encroaching into the media agency space Uh visa we I want to ask you do you think media agencies are getting into the creative agency space today? I don't think we're actually getting into the correct I think we're very different in terms of our starting point What I'd like to see is more is, um You know working more closely with the creative agencies Especially the omnicom creative agencies. I think there's a real opportunity You know, when I first started in the in the business, you know, it was all for service I worked at Bartlett-Burgle Hegarty, you know, and it was big agency as you know, big global and it was all together Then it separated and now I think more and more there's an opportunity for us to work together and actually omni Which is our platform is a platform that is set up for creative and media to work closely together And that's again going to be a big objective in 2023 for us to work in that platform together to explore audience insights You know to work on ideas generation together to work on briefs together And so we need to see more of that happening Yeah, another I think a big trend that we've seen in the creative space Let me say is coming together of digital and traditional agencies You've seen something similar happen very recently even the media space with essence and media comm coming together Do you think that's a way forward like every big agency which has been very good at traditional needs to come together with A digital agency. Is that the way forward for phd? Yeah, no, I don't think so From my end, um, I think what we should be better at is packaging and digital Um offerings because actually if you look at our Um total billings 50 percent of our total billings is digital globally So, you know, we have a huge amount of digital Um people and digital buildings What I don't think we do as well as digital specialists is package and market What we're doing Um, and I think sometimes when you're doing so much you get called a generalist as opposed to a specialist But actually we're doing exactly the same Specialisms. I just don't think we're packaging and marketing enough and telling our clients enough about the brilliant stuff in performance marketing For example that we're doing we have a huge amount of performance clients And yet we're not, you know packaging it in the way we should because You know, we're not focusing on packaging it in that way. We're focusing on creativity or strategies So a big thing for me in 2023 is making sure our clients understand our capabilities in digital and data better Okay, and you spoke about how 50 more than 50 percent of your buildings are on the digital side. Yeah, how was it in India? That was globally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly in india. It's about 25 30 percent Digital 20 25 digital. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously there's there's always definitions in what is digital and what isn't But it's it's a big portion of their spend about third, I would say. Yeah Um, and you know another thing we are noticing now is you know, there's a lot of talk about how Chat gpt may eat away agency jobs. Yes I want to understand from you have you formalized ways by which it can actually eat the process of media by Is it in it in the pipeline or is it already there? Yeah, I mean, it's completely in the pipeline We've got a working party on it at the moment. It's really exciting I think we'll enhance what we do I don't think it's going to replace jobs because having looked at a few demos of what it can do You need human interaction, you know, because it's not the answers aren't always correct In fact, they're never correct. But what it does is they stimulate thinking So I think you can get to the answer quicker Definitely And therefore I think it's really exciting, but it's really yes. It's very much in the pipeline I know John Wren talked about it in the earnings call And you will be seeing some announcements in the next couple of months about our product and how we're going to market It's very very exciting. Any new efficiencies you're adding in the network at phd phd In terms of efficiencies any new Services that you're offering? Yeah, no, so I mean, I've already mentioned our commons offering and that's called Transact Which again is is bringing together all the different Retail marketing elements of Omicom So it's bringing together Omicom retail with all our e-commerce opportunities and creating this product called Transact Which is a consultancy, but it's end-to-end Customer journey in terms of retail. So that's something we're going to be pushing very hard We've also got another product an Omicom media group called Tracker, which is all around working and working with clients on their global marketing offering So google marketing offering, sorry So we've got a number and then importantly and very importantly is omg momentum Which is all around our d and i sustainability offering So a lot of our clients are looking at progressive media sustainability And that's our that's our product that we're helping again from a consultancy perspective Helping them identify what their future strategy should be in these important areas You've been with Omicom for more than 15 years. Yes, I'm correct You know, we hear so much about diversity inclusivity. I want to understand from you Did you ever come across any kind of discrimination while you were climbing up the corporate ladder? Because I was speaking to somebody very senior from when I was at can And she's heading a network and she spoke about how the industry colleagues would absolutely ignore her at industry parties Of course, it's a small part of it. But have you seen something on a bigger scale? Yes, no, so I think you know as I was so I started in the industry in the late 80s And so I think the industry was much more biased in terms of male gender And when I looked up and looked around and saw who was sitting on the boards and the senior leader There wasn't many women at all at that time I think we've pushed Really well And I think a lot has been done and now I look at boards around the world and they're much more balanced And I still think there's some you know, there's more to come. I don't think it's job done in terms of diversity And and it's always top of my mind and top of my agenda But you know Being a global female CEO just shows that omnicom You doesn't feel that way There's many global CEOs within the whole of omnicom that are female which is great But we have to keep on pushing and give um, you know Make sure that we give women and men equal opportunities to Grow their careers at omnicom and phd But I don't see it now anymore But growing up. Yes, I did in the industry without a doubt I really felt, you know, that it you know, I was being You know overlooked I would say but not anymore not anymore So you were the first I think a global CEO of an omnicom Network agency and then I think your chief talent officer kit. Yes, of course. And when I was in India So there are fair bit of women out there any specific policies or anything that you think in your agency should You know adopt or have in the our agencies to make sure that Women contribution. I mean women in leadership positions are not a rarity. Yes. No, I think um I think, you know, I mean as you say if I look in in India and phd manas is that you know The the CEO of phd and she's incredible I think, you know, we've just got to be more understanding in terms of making sure that women can have the The good balance, you know between their family and home life and their work life And I think there is much greater understanding than the way it was before I was talking about it earlier And also I think women should be confident about prioritizing and not trying to do everything I think one of our, you know, it's just sort of Part of our nature is we try to do too much And I think we've got to get better at prioritizing and saying no So that we can get a greater and a better balance Um, and therefore that does allow us to you know, be able to have families and great careers and You know not being afraid of putting ourselves forward for new career opportunities Um, I think men are better than women at doing that to have more confidence We've got to keep, you know building our confidence because it's equal. It's not, you know, there's some brilliant You know men and there's brilliant women. So it should be completely equal Fabulous. May you continue to strike that amazing gender balance and continue to inspire. Thank you so much Thank you very much. That's great. Thank you. Thank you very much Thank you