 I'm calling this working session to order, and I'm calling it a working session because we don't have a quorum tonight. If more members trickle in and we have a quorum, then we'll reevaluate the plan. But for now, I propose that we table the agenda we had for tonight until our next meeting and use sometime tonight, we can have a short meeting, to deal with what was item eight, which is to talk briefly about the city plan, the milestones that we've already identified the milestones towards completion that we have right now, and then discuss what we learned from sustainable non-pillier coalition and what our next steps are going forward. Does that sound okay to everyone? This is kind of a fun discussion. Yeah. So, okay. So, Mike, you put the first part on the agenda, so let's talk about what you wanted to talk about, and then we can dive into the part. So you had, I don't know if it was just the way you worded it, but identify this year's milestones toward completion. Did you have particular items in mind? Us. Or is it more of a general? There was, I mean, some of it was more of a general. I mean, we all want to get this going. We know we've got maybe 12 sections. We talked about kind of attacking this plan in a number of ways, and if we kind of come up to a consensus of what we think we want to, how we want to go after it, I can start pulling things together and then people can react to it, which is kind of what I think. So if we've got 10 or 12 chapters we're eventually gonna want, I can just start putting together I think eventually we'll want, our goal was to have a short chapter with implementation, and I think we can start pulling together the resources. We can get the links on the website, and then we can just start building some chapters. When you say resources, are you talking about background materials to review? Background materials for some of them, because I think what we wanna be able to do is to digest our plans down into something that people are more likely to read and use. So we're looking at 1,500 words, 2,000 words. Total. Total for a chapter, but because there's so much information that you need, we're really gonna be referencing a number of other documents. So if people want more, they can start drilling down into them, but to understand these are our housing goals, these are our housing needs, or this is why housing is important, we have six or seven housing reports that have been done since 2000, so we don't need to restate those if we just go through it. The housing need report from 2014 identified six things, and this is what we found. And then we just put a link on it, but we will need to have those documents. I have them on mine, and I assume ship them to the Google Drive, or I can keep them on the iDrive here at the server. Be good to have them all together. Yeah, I think if you wanna load up on them, there's just so many. And if people want to look at them, we can do that. And so that was my thought, was I would just start pulling together some of these short chapters and then some of these implementation plans, just as thought through as much as we can, and then we can start deciding, rolling out, going out to the various committees to start getting things. And it sounded like rather than doing a couple at a time, we were like, let's put it in together. What are the implementation plans and where are those coming from? Those should be coming a lot more from the committees, but I think we need to start with a framework. Some with housing and energy are two that have very well-developed plans and refining it, but I think it would be easier for places like the Conservation Commission or these other ones who haven't put them together to kind of be given a framework of, here it is, massage this, change this, but here's the overall outline and structure that we're looking for and we can help them work their way through some other things. I know, I met with the Parks Commission today's Monday, so it would have been Friday. I'm a newer member of the Parks Commission who is very excited about the opportunity to look at these, so I think we've got, you know, Parks will be another one, Community Services, Utilities, Facilities, Transportation, there's just a lot of chapters that I can start pulling together resources on and put together, as I said, for a couple thousand words. So one thing I think we should do before we get into the weeds of drafting chapters and implementation plans is talk as a commission about the big picture, I mean, sort of the when use map that we see for the city and we have all of these goals, we heard from all of the committees at the all committee kickoff meeting, we have the sort of ideas that the Sustainable and Montpellier Coalition provided for us and maybe we could look at some of those maps and think about, I just like us to have kind of a broader discussion about what kind of transportation goals do we have and what are the ideas that we've been presented with and are those, do those seem reasonable to us? Do we have questions to kick back to some of the committees about the goals? I think we should spend more time shaping the goals up front just to make sure we feel like we fully understand the bounds of the goal and then once we feel like we agree with the goals they make sense within the broader context of the city plan, sort of the land use map. I like the map, so I like the idea of a map because I'm very visual, but however it is you wanna look at it and then from there they could go forward and do the work knowing that we agree with the direction they're going in and we don't have any issues with it. That's kind of how I was thinking we could be more productive, but I've never done this before and Mikey and John you have, so. Yeah, one thing to keep in mind is that the city has a new tool, or JS Hub that they're using for a couple of things like snow plow tracking and I'm not sure what else, but one of the things that it does well and that we should use it for is for a gathering input basically. So we'll be able to put up a map that has a number, we can decide what layers we want on there, zoning districts, the river corridors, et cetera. And then have people just comment on it and I think if we just provide a good amount of guidance or an intro on it, that'll be a good way to capture feedback and input from people at a city-wide level. And we started to do this, we can pick up where we left off, but I like the idea of Framian in terms of what do we wanna maintain about Montpelier, what do we wanna just involve or improve and what do we need to transform and where we're framing it in terms of like. Yeah, whatever it needs to change. So I was thinking the same thing and if we had our neighborhoods layer on there, people could go and describe what the MET is and vote through each one of the three and see what people vote up for maintaining and what people vote to enhance or what people think need to get transformed. How can we put this together? I mean, this is sort of like way beyond my ability to conceptualize. So can you walk me through how this might work? Yeah, I mean, for that, it'll be easier just to do it in show. Yeah, when the access Montpelier comes online for people to view that it's not online yet and when it comes online it will, then it'll be easier to show. Yeah, I'm asking for this, the access Montpelier. That's the GIS Hub. Yeah, but what does the GIS Hub do? It lets you, I mean, the goal out of Esri was to contextualize information. So they were good at mapping and, but they weren't good at kind of putting a story behind it. So their goal was to help be able to explain the data or show the data. So I think the first one Stone Environmental did was to put together one for the snow plowing and what are the snow plow routes and how long did it take and what are the snow plows and who's doing this just so it educates the public on, you know, it's seven o'clock, why aren't my things plowed yet? But what you actually could go in and understand why, you know, and you could actually look up, oh, where's the snow plow? Oh, where's the site? People in my office love it. Yeah, nobody's plowed my street yet. And it's like, well, actually they did, but here's why. They send a small snow plow out to plow the middle and then they send his other plow out that plows the edges. So all that information would be included, but it's not available yet. Is it, can you guys, are you guys able to, were you guys able to see it? I have not, good for it. I don't think so. I thought I would draft a bit or you might be able to see part of it. My understanding was it wasn't rolled out yet, but the goal was that by telling a story, by putting together storyboards, you can start to explain to the public or your audience different things about the data. So that way the data has some meaning. It's been just a number. It helps to explain. Aside from that though, just like on a basic level, the functionality allows people to just create an account if they want and interact or like contribute. So they can see, we can see, they can go and start putting points on a map or drawing things on a map and saying, I'm interested in this happening or. Yeah, there's the push out of information and then there's also the take in of information. So there, a stone is actually working to do kind of a, you've heard of the point, shoot, click for problems. Well, they're gonna have something like that for the city. So you see a pothole, you can take a picture of the pothole and send it to the city via this. Like the ones on the new state. Yeah, you click it and then it'll send a marker and it'll get, they're just trying to work to make sure it connects in with the existing work sheet system that we have because we already have a work program for the DPW. So we're just trying to make sure that in the background, we've got connections. So when people do that, it'll automatically get put into a queue that will notify somebody at DPW that there's a pothole. With the existing work plan that DPW has to be accessible by the people who are inputting or looking at this. I don't know, no, usually what it is is it's just gonna go into the queue, you don't. It's an information gathering kind of thing. There's an information gathering portal and then there's an information put out. It kind of works in both directions so people can. So once we have this, you're talking about sending it out to the public. We just send it out as is and give people a deadline to provide feedback. Feedback on what though? I mean, what's the structure? It depends what the question is, I think. I think if there's a question that is helpful for getting input on, whether it's a goal, whether it's the vision, the goal, or one of the tasks or, you can put it out to get input. I mean, if there's an aspect of the sustainable Montpelier that we want to see what the public thinks of it, we could put it out there as a question. We could put general things out, as John was saying. Are there parts of town that you think should be maintained as they are? Are there parts of town you think should be transformed? Yeah, I think when we could just go out to wherever and say what's your favorite thing about Montpelier and if you could change anything about Montpelier, what would it be? Can you put this on a map? And then there are... Can you put this on the map as the hard question? Yeah, really, because I think most people won't be able to make that transition. But if they can just give us that information, then we can look at it on map. Yeah, I think it's important though to make it real. Yeah, or you can make it real. To put it on a map, because otherwise... For people who are not familiar and don't work with maps all the time, it's a big leap to... I was thinking it's more of a big leap because a lot of the things that I'm hearing from people about what they love about Montpelier are more like value systems. Yeah, right, yeah, that's true. So actually translating that into a tangible structure or plan is... Yeah, some aspect. But I think that's why that step is critical. But we have a lot of things that... There's the land use plan and there's the nuts and bolts parts of our city plan, but there are also... It may come up that we now have a committee for inclusive and equitable. Something like that. Committee for equitable and sustainable or something. And so we may have policies that do reflect some of those other less brick and mortar... Yeah, not everything. Not everything has to fit into a... You could maybe ask them to express it in such a way that it has some tangible example in the city or some tangible manifestation. We like to be able to walk to the elementary school. That's because they live close enough and that's part of the aspect. I don't know. I just not clear about when we go out to the public and ask them, do we try to gather goals together and then get them to react? I think we should do it early and then reassess the goals and then do it again. We should do it in tandem, I think. In tandem with what? With our developing goals or our... Yeah, I mean, we create this, go out and collect, give people a way to participate and give us information as we work through this. In case if people have a way of signing up for it to get things, we could always go... As we put things online, people can get a notification that something... Yeah, things have changed. A survey has been put up. I don't know how complex we can make it, but I mean, just something as simple as... The draft revised plan for transportation has been put up. If you want to view it, the survey question has been put up by the Energy Committee, regarding... ...debacts. Yeah, I think we're maybe a tutorial for the public in terms of how they could input onto this and, you know, we'll actually physically do it and what it means to us, how it's going to give us input. I'm just concerned about just sort of going out at the very beginning in a very broad-based way because people tend to be able to react better to something that actually they can look at, something that they... What depends on the question, I think. Yeah, well, I mean, we have to have, you know, a pretty distinctive questionnaire. And was that something that was being worked on before? What was the questionnaire that was being worked on before? Well, I think we put that aside, but it was something about... It was the same concept. Yeah, we started with the committees and passed them something along those lines. But I think we can frame it in a way that's approachable and that results in some useful information without putting it out there. Or I would be concerned about, you know, leading to any, like, leading questions for people to react to or starting with the plan and then asking people to help us plan. No, no, no, just starting with, well, sort of maybe giving them options, so that that can kind of generate the conversation. Yeah, well, I think we should be the first ones to go on this map and actually put stuff on. Oh, okay, yeah, I thought maybe we should do that exercise here. Just so we can learn how it works and because people are gonna ask us and so we've had the opportunity to put it together and put it out. Yeah, we have to make sure it works. And then no one wants to be the first person, right? Right. So let's put stuff on there. And then we can also debug it, too, if there's any issues. Yeah, that's a good point. And then for people who can't figure it out, we'll send them to Mike's office. So he can just input it manually. Yeah. Like tutorials. We could actually have paper ones for someone who wants to just draw on it and then we can add it. Yeah, that would be good. But I do, I agree, I don't think we want to go back and just, I think the 2008, 2009 plan was that opportunity for people to really just give you the blank canvas and have the public make the plan. And I think we now need to kind of take those pieces and start to move those forward. You mean the 2010 plan? The 2010 plan. Okay. Yeah, there was a lot of, yeah. Now the 2017 plan? Yeah, not the 2017 plan. But the original. But it's good. I mean, it has good sections in it. I looked at it again. And we're careful. Unless we, and it's definitely good information is just not important. Yeah, it's just not, it's got the ideas there and the public input was there. And I think I wouldn't want to go back and say, let's start that all over again. I would rather just go try to draw on that to start building new things to start with how we can move this forward. And if in the discussion of how we move it forward we need to go back and amend the aspirations then we do that. Yeah, we may find that's true because some of the things that were said and that haven't actually happened as you pointed out. So when will access Montpelier be live? Or what's going to we use it? It's really the question I'm looking for. I think it's going to be a little bit. Zach, who is kind of running in house is out on paternity. So he's going to be pretty busy because he's only working one day a week in the office. So I wouldn't expect us to be able to start using him too much till later, May, June, maybe. So for now, I think... It won't take long to get from where we are now, March to May. Yeah, yeah. So talk about two months where we can develop stuff on the Google Drive. So for now you're going to start putting together those resources on one place so we can look at them. Maybe at the next meeting we can walk through the Google Drive and the template that the energy committee piece had put together. Sounds good. And then depending on how that looks, we can take, I'm sure it'll probably need a few revisions. So we can revise them between now and then. And then maybe also we want to come up with a big picture timeline with some of those milestones. Yeah, that's what I was thinking as if we just had an idea of what we wanted to accomplish by when then I can start rolling that back and starting to push where we need to push to make it. Mike, when you're gathering the information together, you know, we had the meeting with the Regional Planning Commission about land use policies relating to transportation, you would bring together all those land use studies, whatever the designated downtown, the growth study and all of those would be referenced. Yeah, anything that we're missing people, I mean that's where we would go and have, you know, any things that you guys would have that maybe I don't have or I missed, we should make sure we get it and if it needs to be referenced, we should reference it. Because that's really the hope is that people who really have an interest can drill down in the information, but for those people who want to just understand the big picture, here's our goal for our transportation that we're to have complete streets and here are the tasks that we're gonna do to have our complete streets and people really want to understand the energy transportation linkage they might have a report, I think. Yeah, but I think we have hot links to go to all of those studies, like the ones that I just discovered, you know, I didn't really know were there, so there are definitely some. So would you start to develop a list for us to look at of these ref resources? I don't think you guys have to necessarily look at the resources, but I mean, I think this is one of them. I just mean, I mean, just the titles of these so we can point out. Well, they'll be on the Google Drive, so you'll see your list. I'll pile them into the Google Drive in PDF format, so hopefully it's something that you can start looking at to go and say, I don't see the 2012 report. Well, I think, I mean, I think. I don't have. At the next meeting when we walk through Google Drive and the template and set up our timelines, we will be able to set up more detailed goals, like everybody should review all of the housing documents. For the next meeting, and we're gonna come in and give our thoughts on housing, or something like, we can find a way to break it down into manageable chunks. Because we really, I think, need to deal with this, treat this like eating an elephant, like one bite at a time, because it's quite a lot. Eating an elephant, huh? Yeah, I'm really eating that similarly, and I thought it was apt. And I'm trying to get to figure out how to start to set that up. Because it is gonna be a big lift in what should I be kind of tackling first on developing the implementation plan for everybody, and then we'll work on the chapter summaries, or just put both pieces together and get them both moving at the same time. Well, so you typed up the goals that we were provided by the various committees, right, the three goals? Yeah. So we should get those on the drive. I think they're in there. I think they're in there. Okay, I didn't look at it yet. And then all the... But I'll start, like I said, I'll start putting things in and then... And if you can make folders, like housing, and then putting everything housing in there, transportation, everything transportation in there, it just, it'll help us go through the documents. Yeah, I'll email you if I have any questions on it. This is still a little bit of a learning curve. That should be pretty straightforward, I think. Yeah, you can't do too much damage, so. I mean, whatever you can, you can fix it if it doesn't work. Yeah. What's nice about it is everything is, what's called GWID-based, so that everything has a unique ID and all the files are, folders have a unique ID, so you can move them, you can change their name, you can do whatever you want and that length will still be based on that unique ID. So you can keep rearranging things or create a different view of them and you can have a, let's say a document should go in a transportation and a housing one, you could have it show up in both, even though it's still pulling from that unique ID. So you can't ever break the link, that's what you're telling me. Right, or it's really hard to. Just want to keep our standards to an ID for it. You wouldn't be able to mix that up, it would always show up where it was referenced. Right. Well, that'll happen, yeah. Well, this sounds like a good plan. Let's go home. Oh, sorry, I had one other question about this, Mike, so when you're gathering stuff together with things like the proposals for the Confluence Park, would that kind of thing be something you would include as well, even though it's not an adopted plan? Let's get it off. It's the city plan, it's the city plan. It's whatever people, wherever people want to go, whatever people think is helpful. I mean, it may be a plan that only gets referenced as an example of a potential. Right, sure. It might not go and say we're gonna do this because it's still a draft, but it may be something that goes as, you know, there are a lot of things that we could do to increase public access to our riverfront and to give the population an opportunity to engage. For example, the River Conservancy developed three plans. Yeah, and here they are. And the city is gonna be working over the next couple of years to implement one of these. I think it might just be, you can't even be over it. And I don't think I have to be the only one to put it in as long as the folders are there, you know, you're welcome to populate it. Yeah, but I just wanted to get parameters in terms of, and then also for the design competition, I mean, what information from those do we try input, if any? I think we'll put everything in there and then you'll look at this whole body of work with the whole, and we can draw from all of their strengths. Okay, I'll check with the sustainable molecular coalitions. I mean, I guess we could just, eventually we can just move the NetZero from our website to get to those topics. Yeah, you can link to websites if you want, or if there's anything we could add on the page. Yeah, I think we can have all that. You have the link to the NetZero website. I don't know, I'm gonna go look, but I remember John saying that we already had. Yeah, I know I've got the link, I don't know if it's in the Google, but I'm gonna put it on the line page. But if not, we can get it in there. No, okay, I'm just wondering how to put these things together, some of the things that are more graphic, right? Yeah, and I think some of it comes down to, I don't necessarily think, no, if the sustainable Mach-Pillier will drive NetZero over Mon competition would drive the goals more than if we've got these goals, we're gonna probably be looking to these five finalists for how we plan to get there. Yeah, we wanna transform our riverfront, and if our thing is we need to be transformational on a riverfront, because we've got five great examples of how to be transformational. Okay, yeah, that's great, yeah. And if people are like, we wanna maintain and we don't wanna change anything, then well, and as you say. Here we are, we have our channels. We have our channels, we wanna keep them just like that. Despite the fact they're kind of falling down, but well, okay. Okay, keep going. Oh, yeah. So the main page here, if you type in Mach-P.city, you scroll down and there's some links here, you see? They actually were, okay. So there's the energy. And then the MEAC is linked, NetZero Mach-Pillier blog is linked, resources, the VCAN, NetZero Mach-Pillier, NetZero Vermont, and Orca Media. Oh, and the presentation. YouTube clip from the NetZero Vermont presentation five team bridges. Oh wait. It was embedded. Okay. Yep. But we don't want just team bridges. We're gonna want all five bridges. We can add everything you want. No, no, no, I know, but I'm just, I'm just trying to sort of figure out. So if that's the- I just put this in as an example. Yeah, Orca, and then we can just start dropping stuff in. And if something doesn't get used, it doesn't get used. It's just been fixed there. We've got something to- Maybe from the NetZero Vermont link. Just- Because a lot of it, the written information is gonna be valuable. Yeah, and our eventual goal, as we said, is just to kind of get this down to where every chapter ends up down to 1500, maybe 3000 words tops. And then it just links to a lot of things. And it's gonna link to a lot of things so people don't have to migrate through- Yes. A pile of data and things. We really want to tell, we want to tell a story. And we've got to meet our statutory obligations, but we really want to go and engage people by telling a story of what it is that we're trying to do, why it's important, and how you can participate and- So the implementation part of that would not- Be much more structured. It would not be part of that 1500 to 3000. No, that would be separate. Yeah, I misunderstood for me, Ford. Yeah, no, there should be just a written part. We have to have a written part that kind of lays this out. And whether it's just a webpage, John and I were talking, do we need to actually have a written document? For what? For our legal plan, or can we get away with doing a web-based plan? Oh, oh, oh, you mean- So I was just thinking, we should, I think we should adjourn and if you have more, I mean, you sound like you have more discussions, but we can let John go home and get it to you. You're ready to go, and I think all four of us are ready to go. I think we are. You're not feeling well, and I gotta drive back to her. Yeah. So thanks for coming in, everybody, and we'll adjourn for this working session. Okay. Thank you. Thank you guys all for the evening. Yeah.