 Good evening everyone. Welcome to tonight's Common Council meeting before we ask City Clerk to read the quote for the week I'd like to welcome back all the alderman and rent for election Congratulations to the ones that are back and the new ones. Congratulations to you too Madam City Clerk. Thank you There are two ways of meeting difficulties you alter the difficulties or you alter yourself meeting them Thank you very much Call the 25th regular meeting of the Common Council order, please call the roll Boran Bulk Yesha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clayunas Manny Meyer Montemayor Rin Flesch Ryan Vanderweel for Hasselt Wongamon 15 present Quarum is present. This time I asked Alderman Vanderweel to lead us in the pledge. I Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands One nation under God any divisible with liberty and justice for all Thank you Alderman Vanderweel next item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes President Hannah Thank You, Mr. Mayor. I move to approve the minutes Motion and second to approve minutes any discussion There is none all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries minutes stand approved Resignation Attorney McLean Thank you. There's a letter dated March 27th This year to the mayor It's been an honor to serve the city of Sheboygan as a representative for the past four years Please accept this letter of my formal resignation for my position of Alder person for district 6 starting April 1 2008 due to my moving out of the area. Thank you Respectfully submitted Bonnie Smith And that's for motion to accept Thank You. Mr. Mayor. I'd make a motion to accept and Also, thank Bonnie Smith for her four years of service. Thank you second motion and second any discussion There is none all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries Next item on the agenda is a public forum madam city clerk. Thank you First on our list this evening is Henry Capitillo and mr. Capitillo. Can you give me your home address, please? Yes, that's 1619 North 38th Street, and that's in the town of Sheboygan Okay, and you will have five minutes there. Okay The reason I'm here today is to clarify on what the mayor said after my last presentation of the council on March 17th 2008 if I recall he said something to the effect that just because individuals say things during the public forum It does not mean that they are so I would like to let the council know that any information that I provide to this council has Been thoroughly researched. I know that some of the salary figures that I quoted may have concerned the mayor and rightly so I Also was taken back to see what some of the mayor's appointments are now earning as Concerning as it may be the information that was used to quote these salaries Came directly from open records request to the city departments that also included the mayor's former assistant Susan Hart Jenny Rosenger the individual that the mayor had a dispute with her Link to the Sheboygan police department made these open record records request if the information is not accurate Then the city of Sheboygan has to look at the methods of their record keeping The intent of my previous presentation was to impress on the council that when that you should be consistent when dealing with Hiring and salary increases in the city of Sheboygan For employees no matter if they are represented by a bargaining unit or not I give the council credit to offer early retirement packages to city employees in order to generate cost savings for the city of Sheboygan Just remember that it defeats your purpose for cost savings if when When and if you elect to refill these positions that you start these individuals way above the starting salaries for the positions that you look to Refill I give examples Well, I gave two examples the last time I was here to show how the refilling of the city assessor in the IT positions at Salaries quite above the starting range would have an impact on cost savings to the city and the taxpayer I have passed out three spreadsheets to exemplify the effect of starting individuals at a higher level Then the starting salary the red spreadsheet gives a projection of a five-year appointment that this city normally does for city head Department head or department heads this spreadsheet shows the city assessor position that What might have happened if the deputy assessor would have been promoted to the assessor position and a new deputy director Was hired at forty thousand dollars and if the present city assessor would have been hired would would have been promoted to sixty thousand dollars and the Individual that was the city assessor would have been Also hired at the sixty thousand dollar range All of the projections include a three percent annual salary increase and the present twelve point two percent retirement paid by the city if you look at that spreadsheet The cost savings for the deputy assessor was from if promoted to and paid sixty thousand dollars in the five-year period Would have generated savings to the city of seventy five thousand eight hundred and four eighty four dollars cost savings if the new deputy Assessor would have been hired at a lower salary That would have saved eighty six thousand four hundred and eighty six a total of a hundred and sixty two thousand three hundred and seventy one dollars for a period of five years If you look at just hiring the city assessor at the starting salary versus what was hired at The cost savings would have been ninety four thousand dollars within a five-year period of time If you look at hiring the city assessor even at a higher rate than the starting salary of sixty thousand dollars You would have a cost savings of seventy five thousand eight hundred eighty four dollars within a five-year period of time The blue spreadsheet shows the difference between the salary grade 14 and salary 13 This is important because I believe the salary and grievance committee on their September 24th 19 2007 changed the IT position to salary grade 13 instead of 14 So when the new position was hired the city would save more money This spreadsheet also includes a three percent annual increase and the present twelve point two percent Retirement paid by the city for the five-year appointment So if and in that the projections for for that would be that if the present Well the present IT person is actually a 22 percent above what the salary starting range is The green spreadsheet is an overview of the IT position versus what's what was in place previously the information system manager And some projected cost savings the sheet also includes a three percent annual salary increase and the present twelve point two Retirement paid by the city for the five-year appointed projection the salaries include the present IT salary and the present information Systems manager that was in place at that time. Excuse me. Henry. Would you like your additional minute? Yes Go ahead So if you look at the the grads the green spreadsheet the cost savings For the hiring at at the starting salary or the starting salary is 86,000 for 73 what the present rate is now for the IT position that is 22 percent above the starting salary the cost savings for from Switching from the previous information management specialists to the IT position within that five period of Contract period you only save thirty eight thousand dollars So if you look So now the spreadsheets that I developed have accurate salaries and accurate retirement figures that are presently in place today The only projections that I made were the three percent annual increases What is in place to what is in place today could actually be more it does not include any Fiker withholding you see or workman's comp or any medical costs So any savings on those areas would also be additional savings when you calculate your one minute is up. I'm sorry. Thank you very much Thank you Next on our list would be Delcey Johnson Delcey, can I have your home address, please? 1306 North Third Street, Sheboygan And you will have five minutes. Thank you May your Perez and members of the council you have on your agenda tonight a resolution Which would allow department heads to reside within the boundaries of the Sheboygan area school district The council has just made an inch of progress on the residency issue by getting the fire department to agree that all new Hires must live in the city for five years Not requiring department heads to live in the city is a step backwards I strongly believe that all city employees should live in the city They are paid with tax dollars from the residents of the city and should be required to help pay the burden of their high wages and benefits Which locally amounts to 35 percent more than the private sector? According to recent information presented at the salaries and grievances committee I believe that if employees have a vested interest in their place of employment. They will be better employees In a March 18th Sheboygan press story Alderman Hanna is quoted as calling for a thorough Discussion to see if there's a way to open the doors for some talented people Resumably in the Sheboygan area school district to work for us However Alderman Hanna was present at the salaries and grievance committee meeting last Wednesday and other than a comment by Alderman Heidemann there was no discussion Perhaps all the discussion had taken place before the meeting Alderman Heidemann voted no Alderman Montemay or Meyer and Gisha voted yes For comments made by Alderman Hanna in the Sheboygan press story one gets the impression that only candidates from the city of Sheboygan have been considered for the position of finance director Quoting from this article Hanna thinks it might be able to draw more applicants if it had a larger area from which to select candidates As a search for a finance director been limited to people currently residing in the city of Sheboygan This would be a departure from recruiting efforts for other department heads Our new public works director is from Rockford, Illinois the new city assessor moved here from Madison indeed The person who declined the finance director position some months ago Obviously did not live in the city word is that he turned the job down because he has several large dogs Which require a couple of acres for exercise and providing for his dogs was more important than moving to the city to be our finance director The only tax connection between residents of the city of Sheboygan and the Sheboygan area school district Is that all residents of these entities pay a portion of their taxes to the Sheboygan area school district? Sheboygan area school district residents do not who do not live within the city of Sheboygan pay no taxes to the city Indeed the Sheboygan area school district extends into Manitowoc County So if the council passes this resolution city of department heads could live in Manitowoc County unbelievable At the salaries and grievances committee meeting Alderman Hanna proposed an amendment to his resolution Whereby this person would have to pay the city the difference between the tax rate where they reside and what they would pay if they lived in the city So the city might get a thousand dollars and the city would pay this person around $90,000 plus benefits of about $40,000. I'm no financial guru But I would say that a return of a hundred and thirty thousand dollars on an investment of a thousand dollars is a pretty good return And the frosting on the cake is that this person would not have to move into our apparently dreadful city Is the council so desperate for an additional thousand dollars in taxes that you would change the residency Rule to accommodate one person who doesn't want to live in the city Why would you give this golden person so much power a person who does not live in the city of Sheboygan? Who does not pay taxes to the city of Sheboygan a person who cannot vote for any of you? Why would you give this person so much power? Actually, this thing seems rather transparent The prevailing presumption is that Alderman Hanna knows of someone within the boundaries of the Sheboygan area school district Who wants to become the city's finance director, but doesn't want to move into the city I cannot believe that the council would change the residency rule to accommodate this person The city has just recently hired three new department heads to have already moved to the city The third is in process of selling his house to relocate to Sheboygan Evidently they did not have a problem with the residency rule Allowing a potential employee to set the conditions of employment makes the council look impotent and Sends the message that the city of Sheboygan is such an undesirable place that department heads should not be expected to live here If this person has so little interest in being a part of the community for which they work and whose salary and benefits are paid for By the taxpayers of this community that person needs to stay where they are or look elsewhere for a job Residing in the city should be a condition of employment not an option dictated by the candidate The husband of the friend of my daughter is a firefighter in Milwaukee in order to accept his job as a Milwaukee firefighter The family had to move from the suburbs into Milwaukee And I remember reading about another Milwaukee situation where a person who just lived outside the Milwaukee city limits was offered a position But had to move into the city to be hired for the job Obviously some municipalities understand the connection between city employment and residency. Excuse me. Delcy. Would you like your extra minute? Please go ahead This resolution is about the people who submit the budgets that your constituents have to pay for They should help pay for what they request of the taxpayers Department heads should set an example for those who work for them and should be proud to live in the city for which they work I Cannot believe that there are not good candidates for the position of finance director who would not move to our city In fact, I am told that a city resident has submitted an application today for the position Don't sell our city short Think about the message your vote sends about our city Put your constituents first on your agenda not some person who doesn't want to live here. Thank you. Thank you Next on the list is Jack warts and Mr. Warts. Could you give me a home address, please? 47 Winnebago Place, Sheboygan, and you will have five minutes sir. I won't need it. Okay Mayor Perez members of the Common Council I'm speaking this evening as president of the Sheboygan County taxpayers alliance It is not our intent to lecture you but to urge you to maintain the residence requirement for all department heads of the city of Sheboygan if Someone was selected for a position and he lived in another county or even another state We would expect him to move to our city to be on top of and in close contact With the workings of the department. He was heading up The mayor must reside in the city elected officials such as yourselves are required to live here The department head should be required to do the same The pros and cons of this issue can be debated endlessly But the issue of loyalty to your employer By residing in the city is not debatable. It is an obligation We feel strongly about this and ask that you retain this requirement We would hate to see a mass exodus of current department heads Which in fact would be entirely possible if this was passed On behalf of the Sheboygan County taxpayers alliance. I want to thank you for the opportunity to appear before you this evening Thank you, sir And the last on our list would be Kristen Blanchard and Kristen you're probably want to pull that mic down a little bit for you There you go, and I need your home address Kristen 10 12 North 27th Street 10 12 North 27th Street Sorry, my voice is very bad tonight. That's okay Okay, you will have five minutes wonderful. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you mayor and the council I'm here tonight. I'm the executive director of Sheboygan County in our faith organization and Since 1993 we've had a farmers market within the Sheboygan County community and here in the city of Sheboygan It's been a fountain park and we're asking for a 10-year commitment from the city to hold the farmers market At Fulton Park and the reason Being is because we're looking at some federal and state grants That would allow us to expand the farmers market build upon its goals Which is to work towards helping local farmers remain vibrant educate the community on healthy eating and provide a social experience that helps build the community and we feel that we've been doing this and by allowing 10 years Sorry by allowing us to have 10 years a 10-year location would allow us to go to the federal government And be able to look at grants like the senior nutrition program and by local by Wisconsin through the state of Wisconsin And be able to provide these services to the city Which is so desperately needed in the past year. We were able to serve 195 senior households which vote $6,000 So that they could receive fresh fruits and vegetables as well as over a thousand wick families to also Provide them fresh fruits and vegetables things that they're not that they don't receive Regularly from these programs the other exciting thing with with these grants is that it would allow us to build upon programs such as a EBT program which is for those of you that don't know your debit cards that you swish everywhere It would be it would allow us to be able to look at getting debit cards for the farmers market so that our Low-income individuals that receive a sorry that Our low-income individuals that receive food stamps would be able to purchase fresh fruits and vegetables again another thing that they're not able to purchase on a regular basis by Through their food stamp program at this time. So we're really excited. We'd love your support to do this with us We know that there's a five-year commitment on the Dacket tonight, and we're really hoping for 10 years so that we are able to write these grants able to get the support and able to bring Bring more farmers markets fresh fruits and vegetables and all this wonderful thing to the community. Thank you. Sorry. I'm so bad tonight You did fine. Thank you That's all Thank you All of you who's addressed the council tonight citizens. Thank you very much Next item on the agenda is we have four hearings. I Will read each one and ask if there's anyone that would like to address the council with respect to 81 of the four If you'd like to please step up to the podium and Announced which item you would like to address which hearing you would like to address The first one is to confirm the exercise of police power in making an assessment for those benefited properties Against which assessments are proposed for parking assessment district one the second hearing to confirm the exercise of police power in making an assessment for those Benefited properties against which assessments are proposed for parking assessment district two The next hearing to confirm the exercise of police power in making an assessment for those benefited properties against which assessments are proposed for parking assessment district 4 the fourth and final hearing to confirm the exercise of police power in making an assessment for those benefited properties against which assessments are proposed for parking assessment district 5 is there anyone that would like to address the council is there anyone that would like to address the council is there anyone that would like to address the council there are none president Hanna thank you mr. Mayor I would make a motion to close the hearings second motion and second to close the hearings any discussion there is none all in favor say aye any opposed motion carries hearings are closed next item is the consent agenda 25 1 to 25 20 president Hanna thank you again mr. Mayor I would move that all ROs be accepted and placed on file and all RCs be accepted and adopted second motion and second for the approval of the consent agenda under discussion Alderman Meyer thank you your honor I would like to pull 25 12 and send that back to committee this is the issue with the farmers market and we just had an explanation as to why they need a 10 year contract with the city and I would like us to look at this a little further and hop and possibly honor them would you like to make that motion yes is there a second there's a second motion and a second any discussion and forwarding it back to a public work committee there is none all in favor say aye any opposed motion carries balance of the consent agenda 25 1 to 25 20 except in 12 any more discussion there being none please call the roll boran bauk Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clioness Manny Meyer Montemay or Rinflaich Ryan Vanderweel for Hassell and Wongamon 15 eyes motion carries communications and petitions 21 20 5 21 to 25 24 to be referred report of officers to 25 25 a hole for 25 42 please make that notation 25 26 25 25 we're going to hold it for when we act on 25 42 yes any other questions 25 26 lies over 25 27 lies over to the May 5th meeting 25 28 to 25 41 to be referred vice president boran thank you runner I would like to bring forward document number 25 35 and I'd like to make a motion to file the arrow motion and second to file 25 35 second all the month of my order did you wish to speak on that or okay we can only go up to two so you're second and there's a motion to file 25 35 under discussion on the motion to file we have no one all in favor of that Alderman Kittleson do you wish to speak Alderman Kittleson thank you you're under discussion I just wondered is there some way that we are going to respond to this communication if we choose to file it can we address that maybe we don't generally respond to communications other than what all right so then this constituent would not be responded to at all to okay thank you thank you all over hassle thank you in response to Alderman Kittleson question I'd like to take this opportunity just to respond to this communication that came in for my district I had hoped not to sit here in front of the public and explain my family situation as it related to Alderman Lewandowski's that Alderman Lewandowski he was a political opponent of mine so I apologize but to respond I had not planned on responding to him but I'd like to take this opportunity to do so considering the girl's misrepresentation that took place in this communication a number of you have talked to me in the last year so realize that this past year has been past year and a half has probably been the toughest year that I can remember in recent memory and for two reasons I mean I have my little boy Danny is a lot of you realize shortly after he was born he was diagnosed with a major brain malformation a number of hospital visits as you can imagine at the children's hospitals both in Madison and Milwaukee and elsewhere followed by some pretty extensive brain surgery and to this day he receives therapy five days a week to help remedy some of the issues that he was born with so you can imagine the amount of commitment and time that it takes to deal with such an issue in addition to that right prior to my Sunday diagnosed with that condition my wife is diagnosed is having grave disease which that itself required numerous trips up to the Mayo Clinic up in Rochester again a lot of checkups prior to I believe four or five different major surgeries to help to correct her condition and a number of follow-ups after that we hope that both conditions with my son and my wife are under control but it's something that will take some time to bear out like I said I'm not sharing this because I'm looking for any sympathy but I feel as though after reading Mr. Lewandowski's letter it was just so grossly misrepresented of my position that I think I needed to say something and I say misrepresented not because of the fact that I have missed some council meetings but because of the fact that I have resigned from most all of the committees that he is referring to me as having missed over the last seven or eight months I think City Record will show that I resigned late last August and from my chair of salary and grievance which subsequently relieves me of all my committee duties I believe on six other committees so I wish Mr. Lewandowski one would have given me a call or two dug a little deeper into the city records to realize that I was not obligated to attend these committee meetings you know I you know I was thinking about this today because a lot of emotions go through your mind when you're thinking about this a lot of the past and trying to rationalize this and justify it I don't feel the need to justify it Mayor you and I have spoke quite often over the last year making every attempt to attend every meeting that I can and when I could not I would communicate to you you know being an ultimate is not just a Monday night job here at the council it's a seven-day a week job so when I get calls on a Sunday night explaining that their neighbor is too noisy or smoke is coming into the yard or a call on a Tuesday morning about their basement flooding that's where the job is at not just here on a Monday night so if Mr. Lewandowski finds it interesting to mathematically point out what percentage of meetings that I've been at I think he should also be aware of the seven-day commitment beyond just those meetings I'd like to take this opportunity as well just to reassure my constituents that their views are being represented those that I spoke with them over the last two years those of lowering cost being fiscal responsible and so on so with that I'd like to leave it at that I appreciate the opportunity to explain my position thank you Alderman Verhassel and I empathize with you I'm sorry you had to explain family matters that are obviously very confidential and very hurtful to you in my mind there was no need for that but you did that I commend you for your courage and I think it's time to move on there's a motion of file 2535 all in favor say aye any opposed motion carries please make notation also that the next one 2536 there's no indication of where it's being referred to that is going to public protection and safety resolutions introduced 32542 by all the person Meyer authorizing entering into a contract for the Niagara Avenue paving North 7th Street to North 8th Street and parking in parking lot number 14 reconstruction bid number 2322 all in my room thank you runner at this point I would like to make a motion to suspend the rules there's a motion the second to suspend is there any objection to that otherwise we'll move on please continue thank you runner and I just want to explain the reason for suspension is to get this process moving everything is in place and time is of the essence and it would be nice to get this project started and with that I would ask that the resolution be put upon its passage and would you please add to file 2525 accept and file 2525 accept and file 2525 thank you so again the motion is to put resolution upon its passage and accepting file 2525 please make that notation and just under further discussion so that the public is aware this is the the the small section of street that will reopen the agri-revenue right in front of the grandstay hotel which everybody has been mostly everybody has been commenting it's going to be a great idea so but we all look forward to that there is a motion on the floor please call Bulk, Gisha, Hannah, Heidemann, Kittlesen, Clayunas, Manny, Meyer, Montemayor, Rindflesch, Ryan, Vanderwheel, Verhasselt, Wongamon, and Boren, 15 ayes. Motion carries 2543 by older person Hannah, Boren, Clayunas, Gisha, and Bulk authorizing the sale of land in the Sheboygan Business Center President Hannah. Well thank you Mr. Mayor first I have to ask for a suspension of the rules. Is there any objection to suspension would you please explain? Certainly this has to deal with 2543 and 2551 have to deal with the the timely sale of some land in our business park maybe a turn in the claim could emphasize that for a second. Anything to add a turn in the claim? Just that this the offer to purchase did come in at the last council meeting but it did not have an accompanying resolution authorizing accepting it so it really has been before the council on two readings but the resolution itself had not and this is for Wisconsin Power and Light and they're interested in purchasing land and in business park and get going with. So then all we need is a motion to put it upon its passage except in an adopt 2551. I would move that the resolution be put upon its passage and move to adopt 2551. And there's a second to that motion. Thank you very much. Any further discussion? There being none please call the roll. Gisha, Hannah, Heidemann, Kittleson, Clayunas, Manny, Meyer, Montemayor, Rindfleisch, Ryan, Vanderweel, Verhasselt, Wangaman, Boren, and Bauch. 15 ayes. Motion carries 2544 through 2546. Lies over. 2547 through 48 to be referred. Please note on 2547 it also does not indicate which committee is being referred to that will be referred to finance committee. Report of committee six 2549 by law and licensing recommended denying taxi cab driver's license number 7792 based on the applicant's failure to cooperate with the committee. Vice president Boren. Your Honor I was unable to attend that meeting so I'd like to defer that to Alderman Wangaman who was taking my place at last Tuesday night's meeting. He has the details. Thank you very much. Alderman Wangaman. Thank you, Your Honor. I would make a motion to accept and adopt a report of committee. Is there a motion in second under discussion? Is Mr. Bergaman in the chamber? Mr. Bergaman is not here, Your Honor. Thank you. Please proceed. The committee decided to deny the license due to his uncooperative attitude with the committee. He was called in to appear before us twice failed to appear both times and after that the committee made a motion to deny the taxi driver license number 7792. Very well. Thank you. Alderman. Any further discussion? Vice president Boren. Thank you, Your Honor. Attorney McLean I didn't have a chance to talk to you before the meeting on both of this one and the next document because I wasn't at the meeting do you think I should abstain or should I go ahead and vote on these? I don't believe you're not being a law on licensing would have any bearing on your ability to vote here. Thank you. Thank you. Very good. Any further discussion? There is none. Please call the roll. Hanna. Hi. Heidemann. Kittleson. Clayunas. Manny. Meyer. Hi. Montemayor. Hi. Rindflige. Hi. Ryan. Hi. Vanderweal. Hi. Verhasselt. Hi. Longhamen. Hi. Boren. Hi. Balk. Hi. And Gisha. Hi. 15 ayes. Motion carries. 2550 by law and licensing recommended denying taxi cab driver's license number 7806 based on public safety concerns the applicants pending law violation substantially related to the licensed activity and the applicants failure to fully reveal their record on the license application. All in one. Thank you, Your Honor. I would make a motion we accept and adopt a report of committee. Motion in second. Under discussion. Is Mr. Schmidt in the courtroom or in the chamber? He's not here, Your Honor. Thank you. Please proceed. Due to the his failure to reveal numerous violations that were directly related to the licensed activity, the committee had decided to deny the license on those grounds, Your Honor. Thank you very much. Alderman Longhamen. Any further discussion? There being none please call roll. Heidemann. Hi. Kittleson. Hi. Clayunas. Hi. Manny. Meyer. Hi. Montemayor. Hi. Rindflige. Hi. Ryan. Hi. Vanderweal. Hi. Verhasselt. Hi. Longhamen. Hi. Boren. Hi. Balk. Hi. Gisha. Hi. And Hannah. Hi. 15 ayes. Motion carries. 2551 was already acted on with 2553. I mean 43. Report of committee is 7. 2552 to be realized over, I should say. 2553 will be referred. Report of committees. 2554 by finance, recommending the refinancing of the 1997 city of Sheboygan, callable marina bond and passing the attached substitute resolution. President Hannah. Well, thank you, Mr. Mayor. First, I would like to have the report of committee accepted and adopted and secondly, put the substitute resolution upon his passage. Second. Motion is second. Under discussion. There is none please call the roll. Kittleson. Hi. Clayunas. Hi. Manny. Hi. Meyer. Hi. Montemayor. Hi. Rindflige. Hi. Ryan. Hi. Vanderweal. Hi. Verhasselt. Hi. Longhamen. Hi. Boren. Hi. Balk. Hi. Gisha. Hi. Hannah. Hi. And Heidemann. Hi. 15 ayes. Motion carries. 2555 by naming rights committee, recommended naming the city of Sheboygan, the Blue Harbor Conference Center, the Michael D. Muth Convention Center at Blue Harbor and passing the attached substitute resolution, stating that the city shall cause a bronze plaque bearing Muth's raised image and text explaining the dedication to be placed in a prominent location at the convention center. President Hannah. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. First, I'd like to accept and adopt the report of committee and secondly, place the substitute resolution upon his passage. Second. Motion and second. Under discussion. There is none. Please call the roll. Clayunas. Hi. Manny. Hi. Meyer. Hi. Montemayor. Hi. Rindflige. Hi. Excuse me. Ryan. Hi. Vanderweal. No. Verhasselt. Hi. Longhamen. No. Boren. Hi. Balk. Hi. Gisha. Hi. Hannah. Hi. Excuse me. Heidemann. No. And Kittleson. 12 ayes, 3 noes. Motion carries. 2550 sick by finance, recommending authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the 2008 budget, establishing revenue and appropriation for donations received for Independence Day from Johnsonville Sausage LLC. President Hannah. Well, thank you, Mr. Mayor. First, I'd like to accept and adopt the report of committee and place the resolution upon his passage. Second. Motion and second. Under discussion. Alderman Bauch. Thank you, Your Honor. On behalf of the 1,300 members of Johnsonville Sausage, we'd just like to acknowledge and show our appreciation for the long history of Johnsonville's relationship with the city of Sheboygan. And now the current relationship, which is supporting the fireworks, we're just very grateful to be part of that. And we look forward to the Fourth of July. Absolutely. And a big thanks to the Johnsonville Company and Family. Any other comments? There is none. Please call the roll. Manny. Mayer. Montemayor. Rinflesch. Ryan. Vanderweel. Verhaselt. Wongerman. Boren. Bauch. Yesha. Hannah. Heidemann. Kittleson. And Clowness. 15 ayes. Motion carries. 2557 by finance, recommending authorizing the sale of land in the Sheboygan Business Center. President Hanna. Thank you again, Mr. Mayor. First, I'd like to accept and adopt the report of committee and then place the resolution upon its passage. Second. Motion and second. Under discussion. There is none. Please call the roll. Mayer. Montemayor. Rinflesch. Ryan. Vanderweel. Verhaselt. Wongerman. Boren. Bauch. Yesha. Heidemann. Kittleson. Clowness. And Manny. 14 ayes. One no. Motion carries. 2558. Got one more. Hold on, Hannah. Yes. By finance, recommending authorizing the transfer of funds for the Sanitary Sewer Rehabilitation Project. Schedule for 2008 as part of the City Street Resurface and Program in Design Services for the Western Sanitary Interceptor Sewer Rehabilitation Project in passing the attached substitute resolution. Further than that. Thank you again, Mr. Mayor. First, I'd like to accept and adopt the report of committee and then place the substitute resolution upon its passage. Second. Motion and second. Under discussion. There is none. Please call the roll. Montemayor. Rinflesch. Ryan. Vanderweel. Verhaselt. Wongerman. Boren. Bauch. Yesha. Hannah. Heidemann. Kittleson. Clowness. Manny. And Mayer. 15 ayes. Motion carries. By 2559, by public works, authorizing the transfer of funds for the Sanitary Sewer Rehabilitation Project. Schedule for 2008 as part of the Street Resurface and Program in Design Services for the Western Sanitary Interceptor Sewer Rehabilitation Project in passing the attached substitute resolution as presented by two council by the committee, by the finance committee this evening. Aldermeyer. Thank you, Your Honor. I would like to make a motion to accept and adopt the RC and put the substitute resolution upon its passage. Second. Motion and second. Under discussion. There is none. Please call the roll. Rinflesch. Ryan. Vanderweel. Verhaselt. Wongerman. Boren. Bauch. Yesha. Hannah. Heidemann. Kittleson. Clowness. Manny. Mayer. And Montemayor. 15 ayes. Motion carries. Report of committee 9. 2560 by salary and grievances recommended repealing section 29-3 of the 1975 Sheboygan Municipal Code and creating new section 82-3 of the current Sheboygan Municipal Code relating to residency and passing this attached substitute resolution. Aldermeyer. Thank you, Your Honor. I move to accept and file the RC and the substitute ordinance be put upon its passage. Motion and second. Under discussion. Aldermeyer. Bauch. You go first. Thank you, Your Honor. I must have misread this when I looked at it the first time and it was Dulcy Johnson's presentation tonight that made me scratch my head and reread it. If I could get some clarification from the committee. On paragraph B it is not, I'm going to make a statement and you tell me whether I'm right or not. If the person pays less where they live than they pay here, they won't necessarily be paying the difference between what they pay where they live and what they would pay here. They're only paying a thousand dollars. Is that, that's not. Allamagesia. Please respond. Thank you, Your Honor. No, that was an incorrect statement made at public forum. The difference that they would pay is let's say the property is in the town of Wilson. If that property was in the city of Sheboygan, the city assessor gets involved and whatever that property value assessment would be for the city of Sheboygan is what the difference they would pay. So they would be required to make up the shortfall. So if I could just follow up, Mr. Mayor, just want to be really clear. So if in Sheboygan they would owe eight thousand dollars a year and in Wilson they would owe four thousand dollars a year, they would somehow make a four thousand dollar commitment to the city of Sheboygan, the difference between eight and four. That's, so that thousand dollars, I'm not quite understanding what that thousand dollar comment is. Thank you, Your Honor. Thank you. I think President Hanna, you want to clarify that? Yes. What thousand dollars is if they rent in the town of Wilson and they don't own and there's no way we can assess it, there's a thousand dollars. Good clarification, President Hanna. Next on the, got a lot, got a lot of lights popping up over here. Alderman Kittleson. Thank you, Your Honor. Looking at our Sheboygan code today, we have a residency requirement in place. We have the ordinance. It's very simple, easy to understand. So I don't know why we need to complicate things. We're required to live in the, the department heads are required to live in the city and upon six months of their date of hire, it's a requirement of the job. We've asked others to do it in the past and I feel we should continue the practice. So I will not be supporting the document 2560. Thank you. Thank you. Now I'm taking everybody in line. So if you've hit your light, wait your turn, please. Vice President Boren, you're next. Thank you, Your Honor. I'm not going to support this either tonight. Gosh, as we've had, we've had department heads living in the city of Sheboygan for many, many years and I just think it's, it's starting a slippery slope if we start making exceptions for individuals. You know, besides the finance director, we've got the IT position, I'm sorry, the human resources position coming up and just say hypothetically, you know, that person would have four horses and they want to have a farmed on in Random Lake, then we're going to have to change, we're going to have to change the ordinance again so they can live in the city and then when we fill the purchasing director policy, you know, this individual might have a nice farm, a nice farm in Calumet County. So we're going to have to change the, the residency requirement again. It's a slippery slope and also if our fine fire chief would decide to get a job as a career advancement in another community and we have to hire a new fire chief, this ordinance would allow the fire chief not to live in the city but with the recent agreement, his people that are being hired would have to live in the city. So again, it has a potential of creating a lot of hard feelings. I, there was an email that was sent out recently by Mr. Oletsky, our new city assessor and he was hired under the assumption that he was going to have to live in the city. He moved up here from Madison and he believes the, the current ordinance with having department heads, having to live in the city is a wealth, is well thought out and he goes on to say that he's passionate about the welfare of his community and would support a residency requirement as a matter of fact for all city employees with the except the ones that are now living out the city, outside the city. The city doesn't need, need talented professionals who enjoy the benefits provided by them from the citizens yet feel the city isn't up to their residency standards. Living here, spending money here and seeing what's wrong motivates me to do what's right by my neighbor. I guess this was the, getting this from a recent hire department head, I guess was the tilting thing for me. I had kind of an open mind on it before, but I think we're just going down a slippery slope if we change this policy for one candidate. Thank you. Thank you. Next we have a whole one of refresh. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Very well spoken. I agree with everything that was been said so far. My point with this one though is I understand the difficulty of perhaps recruiting for people when they get to a certain stage in life, they would like to build their nice house and their one acre of land and have the area for the dogs or for the horses. I think if they're looking for something with the horses, perhaps they're looking for the wrong kind of job to be a city department head. But I do understand the concept of getting to a stage in life wanting to build. We are very tight in the city of building areas that we can't really expand, they can't build on because we don't have land to build on available right now. I think that points to the larger problem that's been historically the problem that's been going for the last 25 years is that we haven't been aggressive in finding new areas to locate properties to expand to do new developments and or annex so that people may have area. They can live in the city and they can do everything else. So I also will not support this today. I think it's the bigger problem is that the city needs to take a broader approach and look at expansion and moving to borders and annexing so that we do have some areas that people can build their houses for. My understanding is that we also already have six exceptions that are listed here as well currently on the books. I know the Board of Waterworks is one that we provide an exception for. So you know we're already looking at that way. I think I agree it's a slippery slope and I think we need to take a different approach and if people are looking at our area and land they can build within the city we need to find them the land and build in the city but not necessarily allow them to build outside. Thank you. Thank you. Next we have Alderman Claynus. Thank you Your Honor. I agree with everything that was said. I also think in the math sorry sorry about that. I also think in the math part of it if Tonnell Wilson is getting 4,000 we're only getting 4,000 we're still missing 8,000. I mean if they've been paying taxes and our assessment would have been 8,000 we would only get half of that the difference which I don't think is you know it's it's not the whole the whole picture or the whole pie. So I think the math on this is is faulty. Thank you. Next we have Alderman Ryan. Thank you Mr. Mayor. I also will not be supporting this. My belief is if you work in the city you should live in the city especially as department heads living within the city limits. You get a lot of feedback from your neighbors you know as all their persons were required to live in a very limited area in our in our districts because you get a lot of feedback from the from the local folks that you that you see every day and if you're living outside the city limits I don't think you get that. So I will not be supporting this and in defense of Dulcy Johnson and her public forum I believe that $1,000 figure she had was just an example I don't believe it was a meant to be a factual figure. Thank you. Next we have Alderman Valk. Thank you, Your Honor. Last year in my debates during the campaign when I was running this question came up and I answered it by saying as an employer I want access to the what I call the deep end of the talent pool. You want to broaden that and be able to recruit people and I said that there there's something that just feels unfair though to the constituency to our neighbors and to myself about hiring someone from outside and them not having the commitment that the city assessor wrote about in his email and so I want to thank Dulcy for her comments tonight because that combined with the assessor's letter and some of the dialogue here tonight has changed my mind. I came in assuming that we were going to get half of their tax bill I thought it was a pretty good compromise for access to talent but I think I've changed my mind and I won't be supporting this tonight because that that perception of unfairness there really is something unfair about people taking our paycheck and not wanting to pay our taxes so thank you, Your Honor. Thank you, Alderman Valk. Next we have Alderman Verhessels. Thank you, Your Honor. I've had the opportunity to hire people in my career so I understand the value of having flexible hiring practices in the effort to get the best available candidate but I think this is a little bit different. I really like the idea of having city employees seeing the results of their work and living in the neighborhood seeing the results of their efforts on a day-to-day basis. I've also served on the salary agreements committee for some time and been involved in a lot of discussions about hiring people and needing to make wage provisions you know hiring towards the higher end of the pay scale in order to attract people to the city of Sheboygan so I think it's a little ironic that if we're making those efforts financially to bring people here and then when they finally get here we say you don't really need to live here you can live anywhere in this neighborhood you know I don't think that exactly lines up so I won't support this as well. All present here? Oh thank you well this was absolutely the discussion I hoped would happen you know when we when we've talked about this we're recruiting people to Sheboygan every once in a while we need to discuss this is this is this something we want to to have in place and it sure sounds like yes it's something we want to have in place that residency is important to people I've chosen to live here in Sheboygan my horse lives in Elkhart Lake and it's just a choice for great. If he starts working for us he's going to move. That's right we'll move the horse. I'll bring Gisha your next sir. Thank you. I think Alderman Hanna did mention in his in the quote in the paper that he wanted to get discussion about this and I think that was mentioned earlier in public forum and this is great discussion another point I don't disagree with anything that's been said that another point is times are changing I mean at two household incomes where maybe one works in Milwaukee or Port Washington one works in Sheboygan living in between even the types of homes people are building are changing they're great rooms and and large big yards and and it's not unusual because of I-43 and for five years I commuted to walk a shop to an office there is just I'm glad we're having discussion because there is more than just the world does change and it is good to review and refresh these once in a while I sometimes think and echoing what all the person for household says that once in a while I think we pay a little bit more for people because we have the residency as well we're you don't give something without getting something and I think I think the price is a bit high thank you and we have one more Alderman many thank you your honor talent pool more flexible the living locale the greater the talent pool that we might attract I think the kind of talent that we want to bring in is talent that's going to be stable consistent committed to the city and sometimes you have young professionals who move up the ladder they would be more attracted to the greater community perhaps than to the city for residents but I would prefer the long-term employee who loves this place it's an attractive community it's a cheap community compared to Milwaukee or Chicago or many other places so there are wonderful people to bring in with plenty of talent who will want to stay here a long time those are the kinds of people I think we want for department heads in this community so what do you guys think I think over hassle if you want to go I just wanted to add I guess you know I agree with everything that's been said here but I think Alderman Gischa throws a little caution out there and I think rightfully so that we should be open in particular situations again having been on salary agreements we hear a lot of different situations and if we're stuck in a situation where we simply cannot find a candidate you know for a long duration of time I think we need to open up to things like this and be willing to make a one-time exemption not necessarily go and change our general ordinances but be open to making one-time exemptions rather than settling for something or someone else so thank you and again this this is a good discussion I think this is one of those issues that I see the lights in front of me pop up like a Christmas tree and everybody wants to weigh in and that's good I would suspect that the resolution would be voted down and quite frankly I don't I don't blame you because you're being responsive to your constituents as you should be so this time we'll call the roll okay Ryan Fander wheel for hassled elk yeshah hannah heidemann kittlesen cliunas manny that was no thank you just wanted to make sure I'm on a roll here with the nose okay mayer monta mayor and rin flash 15 nose motion carries ordinances introduced 10 25 61 lies over 2562 to be referred matters laid over 11 2453 resolution number 2440708 by all the person born amending the composition of the marina and harbour committee vice president born thank you your honor morning morning balk yeshah hannah heidemann kittlesen cliunas manny mayer monta mayor rin flash ryan and vander wheel 15 eyes motion carries 2454 president hannah thank you mr. mayor if I might I'd like to put 2454 2455 2456 and 2457 please do they all relate to assessment second motion and second under discussion we're being non please call a roll wangaman boren balk yeshah I'm sorry yeshah somebody coughed hannah heidemann kittlesen cliunas manny mayer monta mayor rin flash ryan vander wheel and their hassle 15 eyes motion carries 2357 general ordinance number 930708 by all the person almond monta mayor mayer dollars per year that is what she agreed to do for the two-year term when she ran 18 thousand dollars doesn't cover a lot with all the hours she's put into this she's just doing a phenomenal job from what I understand I've not had heard anybody say that she's not doing hopefully both the council and the citizens is that motion yes sir is there a second to that that's an emotion to amend the document yes sir there's a second to that under discussion on the amendment only please read the amendment the amendment is to amend year 2008 from 35 000 to 25 000 so an i vote would make it 25 000 for 08 under discussion on the amendment all of them play with us thank you your honor um i i feel as if this is a matter of law and order and i feel as if um 35 000 is not too is not too much and that we should consider what's being done and for the good of the city the police department is benefiting from this the building department thank you your honor i just wonder if my colleague from the second district could talk about his rationale for mark available out there whether it's in the area the state the region if the some member from the municipal court committee could maybe expand upon how these numbers have come to be where they are all kittlesons your member thank you your honor yes i am a member of that committee and that we did go into closed session i was not at that i was not at that um one side of it is from a budget side uh we budgeted x amount of revenue from the municipal court and x amount of pay for the judge anytime any dollar we're going to be raising affects our budget whether it's fifteen thousand dollars or seven thousand dollars money's got to come from somewhere um the other part is there was a deal made you know when you take off the papers and you're run you put out the lawn signs i agree with uh older person claunas regarding the fair and equitable on the money and i and i guess i really don't have a problem with the money but there was a deal made with the unhappy with the with the salary she's receiving this salary was based on projections and think and information that we generated out of that committee we checked with a new value the truth i want you to know that we have the cheapest legal team if you call her a team in shabuagan county we have a deal and the hours that she puts in surpass broadly as has been mentioned when the voting booths that we were thinking of the eighteen thousand i don't think people were thinking of that i think they were thinking of a municipal court where uh judgments could be coming out faster and the law would be enforced more quickly kittleson thank you your honor i guess thank you for the comments as well and and i just asked myself these questions is is the judge doing the job and i believe she is and is the court working and i believe i can answer yes on both counts so i would like counsel to take that into consideration when voting on this thank you alderman van der wheel thank you honor i agree with what was a lot of what was said and when i voted yesterday i never thought once about how much that person was making i was voting for who i thought would be best fit for that position and four years ago the committee and rather than very conservative about what we were going to pay somebody because it was a very controversial item and it stalled quite a bit and it almost didn't happen because half the people thought it was a good idea and the other half thought it was a bad idea and i think it turned out to be a really good idea but we were very conservative four years ago thank you alderman van der wheel thank you honor again i'd like to support this resolution here i guess i'm just having trouble with knowing what the basis is for these numbers you know i i keep hearing they were getting a good deal that she's working more hours than she signed up for so but how being a member of salary and grievance worked always talking about comparables whether we're dealing with union issues or non-rep issues there's a constant comparison to somebody else they're making this much and so on i'm not convinced that we're underpaying the that we're not underpaying the person for all we know i mean do we have that understanding i guess i'll throw that question out there again do we have that understanding is 35 000 too little or is it too much or is it comparable to other wisconsin judges in other cities vice president borne last one thank you your honor uh to answer try to answer some of alderman verhasel's questions i attended quite a few meetings of the municipal court committee and uh if you look at what other judges are making in wisconsin municipal court judges for the amount of revenue that they're bringing in uh our judge is uh is is underpaid and if we're going and what's causing the additional hours is that because collections were not going well people were not paying their fines another uh another remedy she came to collect the money was to do summons hearings and writ rits of commitment uh and what that means is uh she would have people in for for summons hearings that weren't paying their fines and then if they still weren't willing to pay their fines then she does a writ of commitment which means they have to go to jail and uh once she instituted that policy collections went up substantially if we're going to stay at an 18 000 salary uh i can i consider giving her the raise up to 35 000 a cost of doing business because if we don't get the raise that means that the i would estimate that the collections are going to be about 200 000 less than what we're budgeting for for 2008 so i think giving her the raise uh up to 35 000 is really a good deal if we're going to if the court's going to be collecting a couple hundred thousand dollars more thank you okay only amendment please read it again okay um and i vote it's an amendment to change the 2008 from 35 000 annual salary to 25 000 so an i vote would move it to 25 please please call roll bauk gisha no hannah yes heidemann yes kittleson no clayunas no mani excuse me no thank you meyer no montemay or i rinflige hi thank you ryan hi van der wheel no for hasselt hi wangaman no and boran no six eyes nine nose motion fails the resolution is as it stands and that motion was made to put it upon its passage any more discussion on the original resolution there is none please call roll gisha hi hannah hi heidemann no kittleson hi clayunas hi mani hi meyer no montemay or rinflige hi ryan hi van der wheel hi for hasselt no wangaman hi boran hi and bauk eleven eyes four nose motion carries other matters authorized by law 25 63 will be referred special committee on risk management 25 64 lies over other matters attorney McLean 25 65 it's an arrow by the city clerk submitting a petition from neighbors who share an alley on bluff avenue between six and seventh streets and are showing their support to pave the alley and are hopeful that this should tie into the six-feet resurfacing project scheduled for early this summer that goes to public works 25 66 an arrow by the city clerk submitting a communication from edward bagick requesting that the open leashed dog friendly area on calumet street get consideration for an enclosed dog park that goes to public yet full of works 25 67 is communication from bob kinder of rebuilding together sheboygan county requesting waiving the building permit fees and dumpster fees so that they can renovate homes for low income and elderly and disabled homeowners it goes to finance 25 68 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending june 30 2008 and june 30 2009 that will be referred to law and licensing 25 69 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting a summons and complaint in the matter of credit based asset servicing and securitization llc versus gary caker at all that will be referred to risk management that could be referred to risk management of the new council of the new council okay i need a motion to adjourn all in favor say aye stand adjourned