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I'm OK, thank you. Thanks for coming on the show because I know you have not did many interviews in the past. No. You've been kind of too under the bus a few times. Yes, I try and avoid media. So Corinne is the mother of Luke Mitchell who was convicted of murder 16 years ago. Luke Mitchell has been fined for a retrial the last 16 years and protested these innocence. So you're here today kind of shed light on it from your side of the story. Yeah. So we'll go right back to the start, Corinne. Like how is Luke's upbringing? Good. I mean, we were a good family. I was divorced, but Luke was 11 when I got divorced. But totally normal, happy childhood family holidays. Lovely wee boy, loved animals. Never been in trouble. My boys have been in trouble. I've been really lucky that way. But his father and I were married for 20 years and we just grew apart and we thought we'd better split up, which we did. Which worked out really well for the boys actually because they had two homes instead of one. Luke used to go and stay with his father every weekend. And it was very happy life. He had a pony, he had a motorbike, everything. I had a horse and we used to ride together. Great. So obviously when Luke turned 14, that's when the nightmare began for you basically. Yes. The night leading up to Jody's murder, how was things with Luke and his mindset and everything prior to that? It was just a normal, normal Monday. I mean, as I say, I was divorced by then and I was working full time at the business. So obviously the boys had their chores to do. And Luke used to cut the grass at work because it meant a tractor. So he didn't cut the grass at home, but he cut the grass at work. In fact, Jody used to sit in the back of the tractor while he was cutting the grass. And home, he discovered he loved cooking. So he used to cook. He had the dinner ready for me coming in from work. He used to phone me when he got in from school and he'd say, right, what's for dinner? I would tell him what's for dinner and he would cook. How long was Luke and Jody seeing each other from? I think it was about five months. Five months? About five months. So leading up to that, obviously when Jody got found murdered, what was the lead up to the events actually when Jody went missing? Right. Well, Luke left the house about 20 to six to sit at the end of our street and to wait for her coming. They didn't have exact arrangements, but he took it. She was coming down to our place. And at that time, a whole lot of them were meeting over in the abbey, which was across from our house. And they'd obviously go for a wee smoke and whatnot that mum didn't know about, but did. Hash, lead? Yes. Though the judge and the prosecution blamed Luke for Jody being on it. Jody was on hash long before she met Luke, long before. And so he went, he sat on the wall at the end of our street. Nothing happened. He walked up a few yards to what's called barrandale cottages so he could see around a corner because that road's quite bendy. So he walked up a few yards so he could see around the corner and see if she was coming. Couldn't see anything. Waited and waited. Then phoned me and said, has Jody been to the house? And I said, no. He said, well, how do you know you're out in the back garden? Because our house, if you came to the front door and you're out in the back garden or a conservatory, you wouldn't have a clue. I mean, I could have been burgled and I wouldn't have a clue. And I said, don't be daft. Mia would alert me if somebody was at the door. That's a dog. Yeah. So he said, are you sure? I said, of course I'm sure. Mia would go. Every time the door went, she went absolutely berserk. So he said, well, if she comes or if she phones, tell her within the abbey she'll know where. Right. Okaduki. And that was it. That was it. So it must have been, curfew is 10, same as hers. And it must have been around about nine-ish or something like that and he arrived home. Now, gosh, you're early. And he went, has Jody not been? I went, no. He said, has she phoned? I went, no. I said, I wonder where the hell she is? I went, look, she's a young girl. She'll be in somebody's house, yippin'. And completely forgot. I said, boyfriends come way down the line when it comes to wee girls talking. So then he got a phone call from Jody's mother. And, no, he got a text, right toad. Get up the road. You're grounded. Because by this time it was past her curfew. So he phoned her and he said, she's not here. He said, what do you mean she's not here? No, she never came down. I used to have been with my friends and she's never come down. Mum said she's not been at the door. So she went, oh well I'm going to phoned all her friends and all the rest of it. So left it at that. And then there was another phone call. And then Luke came to me and went, mum, Jody's organising a search party. We're going out looking for her. I went, nut it. This time of night you're not a young man. And he went, I'm going out looking for her. End of. No argument. That's why you're taking the dog. So because this time it was late. So off he went and he'd taken Mia out because I said I'm going to save her mum's old legs and take Madame out for her last pee evening. And he was away two seconds. Of course by that time he'd got the phone call from Judy. So he left. And that's Jody's mum? Yeah. They're all Jays. Please have it with your teeth. So Luke got a torch from his brother. And off he went with torch and dog. Now you see when you're behind a German shepherd, you move fast. I mean you have no choice. You move fast. Now Luke, I was always a very fast walker. But Luke was a really fast walker. So he was fat. He was young, fit and behind a German shepherd, moving very, very fast. Now from our house to the top of the path. It's a fair distance but far less than what the rest of the search party had to cover. They had to come from the top of Mayfield down. Now you've got a 67 year old arthritic granny. She's not going to be moving very fast. So how many people out looking for Jody? There's Luke, there was a granny, the sister and the sister's fiance. And Jody was supposed to meet Luke that day? Yes. And she never got found and then they went out on the search for her. Because they said it was Luke who found the body. But it was the dog. It was Mia. What happened was, and we still don't know how, but when Luke got to the top of the path, the plan was he'd arranged with Jody that he would meet Jody at their house to go over friends' phone numbers that Jody probably wouldn't have. Because you know yourself as a parent, you don't know all your kids' friends and you don't have their phone numbers. So Luke said you'd go and meet Jody at her house and go over all the friends. But what confuses us is the phone record show that she never phoned any of her friends. She phoned the granny and that was all she phoned. But anywho, that was the plan. But when Luke got to the top of the path, the other three members were already there and we have no idea how they got there that fast. No idea. So Luke wasn't the first one at the body? He was the first one who saw it, but the granny actually cradled her. Now she could have had DNA transference, but she washed all her clothes and her clothes weren't taken. None of the three clothes were taken, only Luke's clothes were taken that night. Did Luke have an alibi? Get me. Did he use any phones or anything that night? He phoned me. Yeah, what time did he phone you? Oh, flip. I can't remember all the time. Did these records and that actually get used in court? Some of them, yeah. Yeah. So after everything, after the body was found, when did the police start coming to the door and start obviously putting Luke's eyes on suspect? Right away. He dialed 999 the first instance. The police finally came. They will bear in mind you're only a few years away from a police station, but they finally came because they couldn't find it. Then they trampled all over the scene. They moved Jodie's body. They moved all her clothing. They cut down branches and threw them away. Then the only child in the search party, Luke, he was the only child. They tried to get him to go back over the wall to show him where the body was. And he was like, no, I'm not going over there. They wanted his DNA over the other side of the wall. So when there was no DNA looks there? None. None at all? None. And did they take all Luke's clothes? All his clothes. They did his fingernails. Their samples, saliva, the lot. And nothing? Nothing. And what about because there was accusations that there was a log burner that you were burning clothes in the back garden? Yeah. Tiny little thing. Portable barbecue base, basically. And they took the contents of that away. Nothing, obviously. Because when Sandra Lean was in the criminologist who worked on the case with you, a lot of people were asking questions why Luke didn't take the stand if he was innocent. His QC was done with Finlay. So why didn't he take the stand then? Finlay wouldn't allow him. Why was that? No idea. He just wouldn't allow him. Luke wanted to take the stand and we wanted him to take the stand. When you're 15 you do not argue with Finlay. If you say something Finlay didn't like he slammed his fists down in the desk. My way or no way laddie. End of. Because the thing, obviously we've got to take into consideration that if Luke was to get a retrial and Luke did get a knock guilty then there's a murderer on the loose. But there always has been. You've got to understand that there's still a 14 year old victim that his family's probably going through torment but what shed light on it for me is when you passed a lie detector. Luke passed a lie detector in prison. Free questions you got and you'd passed with flying colours and also Luke. Luke was doing a lie detector with his eyes closed. Can you explain that a bit? Because a lot of people are saying he had his eyes closed because he was concentrating. If he did that a liar can pass a lie detector. Stuff like that. Well bear in mind, yes you can be trained but it takes years. Luke had weeks. Where he did the test is a row of lawyers offices. If you have a lawyer's visit it's where you go. So guards can see what's going on. So you've got say five rooms but each wall between them is glass. So you can see from room one down to room five because it's glass. And then at the front there's glass. Of course the guards were doing faces and carrying on. So the polygraph examiner said to Luke you're going to have to close your eyes and just blot everything out. He said this isn't the ideal place to be in to do this. He said but this is where we've been given this is where we have to do it. You're going to have to close your eyes and just forget that these people are out there. So that's why he closed his eyes. Who was the man who did the polygraph? Terry Mullins. Terry. He's the big chief of polygraphs. Do you remember the questions that Luke asked? Not Luke. I've kind of blotted Luke's out a bit because when I watched it it was... To me he looked like he was on death row about to get zapped in an electric chair. So... What was your questions? I have a copy of them in my bag. I put that on the camera, the questions and the answers. So how long after the conviction was the eye detector for you? Years. Absolutely years. Were you nervous about taking it? I was yes because I take palpitations and there's no rhyme or reason for them. I could be stressed and I take them. I could be totally chilled out and one disappears. What worried me was I would be asked a vital question. Because the press were waiting outside as well? No they were actually... Well they were waiting outside while I was doing the test but when I was getting my results they were allowed in. So you must have been a lot of fear then because... It's horrible. It was just horrible. So you've got the answers that we can put out there. How's your life been since the conviction I look? In a word, crap. Yeah. I was physically attacked. My business was attacked constant times. I had 40 caravans totally destroyed in one night. They've ruined my business. I'm having to sell up. I've got no business to talk of left. I've no caravans left. It's called Scots caravans and there isn't a caravan to be seen except a wrecked one. They were all burnt down? A lot of them were burnt down but they were just wrecked. And when I say wrecked, I mean wrecked. Not a window left. Big poles put through the bodywork. Interiors ripped. Just totally wrecked in one night. What did the police do for that? To try and help you? Nothing. I mean absolutely nothing. Across from us before they'd built the new flats there was a big white wall and on it was Scots or murderers. So we phoned the council to get them to take it off and we also phoned the police. Now a worker at the Shell petrol station next to us she saw who did it and she told the police and the police said no we can't do anything there's no witnesses. She said I'm a witness. I'm a witness. But because of who it was they wouldn't do anything. This person's never touched. It's not excuse because you never did anything. You never did anything but obviously because of the crime people are full of hate and rage. I got a break through my rear window when I was driving. That was horrible. Then the police were going to do me for 999 while I was driving. Then they said oh did you get out and see who it was? I went no because I didn't want another one in the face. Thank you. So how have you dealt with it then to still be here and keep fighting for your son's innocence and going out and visiting him every week? You just do it. Have you contemplated suicide or anything yourself? No that wouldn't be fair on look for a start. That wouldn't be fair on my other son. I mean that's just a coward's way out. The best you get down you get... I'm bitter. I mean somebody once said to me if you're not careful, if you don't start socialising again soon girl you're going to become a bitter old woman. And I laugh. Now I'm not going to become a bitter old woman. I am a bitter old woman. I'm not going to say celebrate but I had my sixth death in February. So I am officially an old woman and I'm bloody bitter. I'm bitter at media, the police. I mean there's that age old joke how do you tell a cop's lie and it's lips are moving and that is true. That is absolutely true. So what do you think? Do you think it's been a mistake or do you think he's been set up or do you think in life there's always good and bad people no matter where it is and has the cops just actually made a a real tragic mistake or have the time of the evidence? It's hard to think because when you're with them all the time I mean I say they searched our home three times and I've never actually seen such stupidity in all my life and nastiness like the Jews words like concealed instead of in you know just put down in those trousers were in a whole doll they weren't concealed in a whole doll they were in and then I was caught on CCTV in a shot whereas one of Jodie's family members was just seen on CTV why was he seen and I was caught? Do you think it was trial by media? Definitely. Do you think from day one that Luke's name's been there and the police would just actually they believed it was him that would just try to look for something to actually convict him? That was the boyfriend. Easy peasy you know this is going to be a quick a quick guess. How long after Jodie's murder was the conviction? Jodie was in 2003 the trial was 2005 wasn't it? He got arrested in 2004. So four years later. He was arrested in April 14th and we all were. Shane, Luke and I we were all arrested and this is what we don't understand is I was arrested and charged with perverting the Court of Justice Shane was arrested and charged with the same and yet our charges were dropped at Luke's trial. Now obviously they've convicted him because they've not believed me because I'm his alibi so they've not believed me so why was I not tried then? You can't have one or not the other. They try to try you to maybe confess to something that you didn't do or they try to give you the fright to maybe come clean about something that you may be hiding or... I have no idea. How was Luke leading up to the trial when he actually got charged? What did they get charged with? Murder. Yeah but what evidence did they have on him? None. None. There was nothing. And this is another thing you know you read in the papers or you see in the news or we couldn't charge this individual because there was no evidence. Charged Luke. I've reported things to the police that has happened in my business and he went do you have any witnesses? I went no, can't charge. Well you didn't have any witnesses with Luke he managed to charge him. So the witness statements as well apparently there's a few witness statements being changed from day one right until the end to Luke's conviction. How many statements were changed? The search parties. Did they not use that in court? The first statements? Well I'm hoping so but they didn't. Their words was they didn't seem to need cooperation and we did. Now the sister's alibi was her fiance and vice versa and that was accepted but my alibi wasn't accepted for Luke. And there was five other pieces of DNA around the body is that correct? We've got semen, sperm, saliva, blood, hair and fibres. None of it looks. Finley could have stopped that trial on day one. By saying just that he could have walked in that court and said Your honour members of the jury we have blood, semen, sperm, saliva, hair and fibre. They are not my clients. I rest my case. What jury could convict on that? And what was the story on the Maldon Manson stuff? Although the rubbish. He had one ripped up calendar which was given to him by his father's new wife and he had one CD bought after the murder because they liked one track on it. I'm sure it was it was an old record redone because I said he had killed it and I can't stand Manson. Tainted love. That's it. You probably won't remember that. Yeah, I remember that song. So he redid it and he murdered it. Didn't like it at all. But looked like it and he bought the CD but that was after the murder and apart from that he had one ripped up calendar given to him by his dad's new wife and yet Jody's and that was a huge thing was made of that. A huge thing was made of the Manson thing and we were like but he wasn't a fan. Her own sister had Marlon's entire collection but that was fine apparently. Again it's not it doesn't matter what clothes you wear or what music you listen to it's not enough to convict anybody so for the wood burner the gardener said you were burning clothes. My log burner. So what was that about the log burner when he says it was a Parker jacket or was it clothes you were burning in the garden? They said I must have burnt the Parker jacket. Now that was a joke because as I say it's a portable barbecue base which is about no more than 12 inches across. It was a genuine German army Parker weighed a bloody ton. How you could walk in it I have no idea. But that was bought again after the murder. Luke was the type of lad who didn't wear jackets. You could buy him any jacket and he would not wear one. He hated jackets. Now after they'd taken all his clothes I said well we're going to have to go into town and get your clothes. You need clothes and we were in one of his daft shops in town and he spied this Parker. Now the liaison officer that I was appointed to that was a joke as well. She was just a nasty nasty little piece of work. She just lied every time she opened her mouth she lied. She came to the door and said can I have a word Corinne? But not right now. We're going into town to buy clothes because you left him with none. So we're going into town. Excuse me. And I walked past her. So when we're in the shop Luke spied the jacket. I went mum look at that jacket and I went it's July. What the hell are you looking at a jacket like that for? He went ah but I can use it for school. Going back in the autumn and then there's winter coming and I'm like you don't wear a jacket. I went yeah but I really like that. He went it's on sale. Of course the word sale to a mother goes so he's like oh ok. So we bought the jacket and obviously other trousers, t-shirts and what they're allowed to put in t-shirts nowadays was a bit push up. It has been my entire time in that shop with oh my god. Oh my god are they allowed to do that? Can you do that? So anywho we got all the stuff got back to the house and lo and behold there's Michelle the liaison officer waiting for us at the house. Oh smiley smiley. And she asked what clothing we had bought so we showed her including the parka and she asked for the receipts and we gave her them. So they know for a fact that I bought that bloody jacket after the murder. But that's the jacket you seen with all the photos and the papers. That's when he went back to school that was after the murder. That was the scenario when Luke went back to school as well. How long was he back for? A couple of days. I had a total fall out the head teacher was a naive git and the head mistress was basically you're talking Hitler and a skirt here. Nasty nasty nasty piece of work. So they said that Luke went back to the school going back in the autumn and said right we can't allow Luke back in the school with the rest of the pupils you're going to have to wait a week or so and then bring him back. I went what's the purpose of that? He went well you know I went no I don't know please explain. Well you know I don't know I said you do realise I've just got rid of the press in front of my house they were virtually camping out in front of my house bringing sandwiches and everything it was a picnic. I said I've just got rid of them I said by doing this you'll bring them back no I think you'll find they'll forget all about it. So he wasn't allowed back on the same day as everybody else and then finally he got to go back and then within hours he phoned me and said mum can you come and pick me up please he went I'm not allowed break with everybody else I'm not allowed dinner with everybody else and I'm not allowed in the same classrooms as everybody else and I'm like what? So I went down to school picked him up and that's when I met Hitler and the skirt and he had to get educated at Green Hall which worked out quite good actually because it was a one to one basis so and he ended up getting all his old levels which he sat on so obviously finished his old levels still after before he'd get charged before he'd get charged so even the day he got convicted what were you expecting outcome to be? Our biggest worry was not proven that was our biggest worry we didn't want a not proven guilty never came into the scenario we thought there's there's not a jury in the south that convict there's no evidence there's no DNA of others there's none of looks there's no witnesses there's nothing a jury cannot convict so it was not proven was our worry and when the jury came back we were like two of us looked at each other and what one of the jury members came in with a can of coke and went to the Joneses family The thumbs up was if we got a guilty now the press made a huge thing he showed no emotion you're not allowed to you have strict strict instructions from the judge no emotion will be shown now the defendants told that and all the witnesses a clerk of court comes in and says the judge says no emotion we don't care what the verdict is you show no that's what we were told and yet the Joneses got to shout at the top of their voices hang the bastard so when he was going through, when he got the guilty and obviously no emotion what was he feeling the next day did he try to for a retrial straight away well I tried to talk to Finlay and he went be fine you know we'll go for an appeal and I said how long that what will that be I said this should never have happened how did this happen when we got to see well behind glass just afterwards and just shock I mean just utter it was like somebody had taken a mallet and gone right between his eyes just shock did you ever have an appeal yes we had two appeals I think there was appeals are jokes it's nothing to do with the case it's all about in this case in 1906 in this case in 1904 and the trial against it and you're like why are you talking about these people this is about Luke Mitchell not about these people judges will not go against each other and what do you think the whole outcome has been of this what do you think has happened well not only have you got a dead girl you've got a young man now he is he's not a boy he's a young man who's had his life wasted he's been locked up half his life he was locked up and taken away at 15 and come July he'll be 31 and is there any other signs of a retrial we're hoping so because since he's been in we've had new evidence we've had a confession and we've had a positive ID of someone seen behind Jody and it's the same person who confessed and so if the police or the courts can't see that as a witness then has that never been put forward to the police or the courts no it's only come to light in the last few years so there's a confession from somebody who's actually did it yes scary to think that again I've still got to sit in the fence because I've still got to understand you've got to understand that there's still a girl who's been murdered and I don't know all the facts I've not seen it in black and white I'm only taking it from your side and Sandra's side but again when it was Joe Steele a very well respected man spent 20 years in prison and said that Luke was Mitchell Luke was innocent because obviously the lie detectors because when Joe actually mentioned on my podcast that Luke was innocent my old recognition of what that was I thought he was guilty myself I thought he was guilty because of the media and I never heard anything of it and then that's when I put the fear out to try to get you on the show to tell your story and because if there is an innocent man if he's guilty and I'm here and I'm shedding light on it it's going to backfire in me but when people who I know are well respected believe he's innocent then there is question marks about it and it is scary to think that it happens all the time I've had TC Campbell and Joe Steele on my show who spent 20 years in prison and were wrongly convicted so it does happen and it's bad enough if you're a grown man and it happens but when you're a young lad you've had your entire life taken away from you because you grow up in a prison system you're not allowed to mature normally like his friends now they're either married or in a relationship some of them have got children they drive honestly, Luke's never had any of that all things you and I take for granted he's never had have you anybody been supporting you either have you lost a lot of family, a lot of friends I've lost a lot of family through death I mean obviously when my family were all alive they all supported me but most of them are dead now I've only got cousins left friends I've no friends left at all because they think Luke's guilty it's just they don't know what to say and I'm like well you don't have to say anything just give me a hug or just talk normal a lot of people will be scared though to say they know you're sure of motion because he has been convicted so and other people's eyes he's guilty a lot of people are too scared to touch on it other people it's such a touchy subject what I discovered quite early on where the majority of people read broad sheets I was fine and I was accepted and it was hello Mrs Mitchell how are you and how's your son that's just ridiculous that he's in prison just ridiculous if I went somewhere who the people mainly read tabloids and I was a dead woman walking you're just not safe at all and how's your safety now with others now if you touch food yeah I get positive though I'm still very wary if I go into Dal Keith now and if I'm in a shop and someone approaches me your immediate action is to go backwards you think are they going to hit me or hug me you don't know but in the last few years it's been it's been fine it's a high category in the prison so he's high risk but he's not taking any of his courses to bring that down to low category why is that because actually you're admitting you're guilt but could do not get out if it takes his courses and well he would if he took his courses yes he would get parole and he would get out but he's never going to admit guilt because he's not guilty so he's just going to try and keep fighting until he walks out the door innocent so how's that again it's such a touchy case you know that yourself but for some family to lose a daughter then eventually you've lost a son and we've not lost him but to be fainting for his freedom must be draining you constantly it does I mean it's the first thing you think of in the morning and the last thing you think at night and then we've been accused of you went whenever we do something to try and help look the papers dump on it and go oh they're putting the Joneses through hell that's disgusting have they not gone through enough well my son's innocent yes I'm sorry your daughter is dead that's awful it's absolutely awful and he's suffered for that he's suffered tremendous trauma because he couldn't even grieve for her because the press were right there the police were right there but he's got to fight for his life as well and we're not going to just let that happen because we feel sorry for another family well you was told not to go to Jody's funeral yes how long when Jody was found how long was the funeral after her body was found this is what was just weird because it was quite soon because they hadn't even made any arrests or anything and then she was allowed to be buried yeah usually hold the body for you can be six months up to a year I don't know if things have changed I think it can maybe six weeks now I'm not sure though so obviously the news as well that you were on Sky News was it the day of the funeral yes what was the story about that was that a hatchet job yes totally we were totally naive and all things press we'd never dealt with the press we'd never dealt with anything like that and all they said was could they come in and see because we heard held our own we sort of vigil for her and we let a candle and whatnot and they asked to come in and see it and then they're like a pack of rapid dogs it was horrible I mean it was really scary and then a daft psychologist was it Ian Stevens or something picked up on the fact that I had my arm around him and my mother I'm protecting it's the first thing you do you know leave him alone he's my baby leave him alone because they have says about like weird relationships and Luke sleeping in the same bed what was that story Luke was on very very strong medication because obviously he was totally traumatised by this time the press were just vile the police were vile and in our living room we had two big couches I mean really big couches so I'm like right usually putting that one I'll see putting that one I didn't want him negotiating stairs under heavy medication I could have tumbled back down and I wanted to keep an eye on him so we're both sleeping in the living room because the papers sleeping in the same bed and stuff like that how could they I don't understand how they could release names before trial and especially a minor as well other do I but they did and they photographed him being taken away handcuffed and I said to him you cannot allow the press to photograph him handcuffed as illegal and they don't worry about it don't worry about it and they did and when he was in the car one of them grabbed him by the hair and went show them your face you wee bastard they grabbed his hair did they ever get like beating up or anything by the police or threatened not so much beating up but definitely threatened he needed to toilet during one interview and the social worker that was in with him got up to go with him and turned around and went you sit and the cops went with them and they both went up went behind him and went confess you wee bastard just fucking confess we know you did it just fucking confess so we're trying to browbeat him all the time did you have a lawyer present no why was that they wouldn't allow it so they wouldn't allow a lawyer present for a 14 year old to have you ever had anybody from the police come forward and say they've made a mistake or anybody from the courts to say we think we've made a mistake have you ever had anybody Sandra had a cop come and that's how he gave her the just about the confession because it was him that actually took the confession and that's never been put forward for and people watching us might be thinking it doesn't seem right again Joe Steele who again was on the show they had the confessions the guy gave a statement against him to say that they were in a pub which they weren't and the guy actually confessed that he was told to say that but they still wouldn't give him a retrial they still wouldn't use that in court so it's courts and shit in police it's difficult it's a different world it's just a different world you're going to get good cops, you're going to get bad cops it's like anything, if you get good teachers, bad teachers it's just the way life is but have they made a terrible mistake maybe they've read the papers, maybe they've read the media that they think it was it's a small community and they wanted and needed a quick conviction so what is there go after the boyfriend they thought he's got a wee laddie and he was always smacked at 14 he was tiny at 14 you know, how is this going to be get them to confess, no problem but they didn't bank on being Luke and what annoyed them was that he was more intelligent than they were what about a murder weapon ever found nothing Sandra and I have got a theory on that one the bike that was seen at the V in the wall there's a V in the wall where the stones have fallen away and there was two lads mucking about on a moped and the moped was seen at the wall at the V and in court they were asked where were you, your bike was seen, where were you and they couldn't and wouldn't answer and it was left at that, they wouldn't answer where they were at all now where the body was was unknown dykes path there's another path adjacent that runs to Rhondike, it's called Lady Path now along here is Reed Drive where one, a cousin or a second cousin don't understand all the second cousin nonsense but he lives along there and his back garden is adjacent to the path it backs on to the path now how easy for to go along Rhondike's path along Lady Path straight into the back of their house now we know there was scrap yard involved somewhere along the line how easy is it to take a motorbike, a knife bloody clothes I'm not swearing, bloody as in blood covered chuck them in the back of a van crush it so how far was there the spot from where Jody was murdered to your house dumb I'd say 10, 15 minute walk so if it was to have done that then you'd have to have walked home and nobody there was no when you come out the path you're on to New Battle Road and then New Battle Abbey Crescent where we lived right at the end there's a bus stop now at that time and I very very busy you've got folk coming off buses coming home from work now you've got to cross a busy road and go into a housing scheme that's got over 200 houses and they were seen by two boys so what time did the roughly say Jody was murdered it keeps changing and where was Luke when roughly the time she was murdered in the house so when Sandra was on he said he'd made a phone call I don't know if it was your work or your other son's work to say that it was dinner there when he got in from school he always phoned me to find out what he had to cook for dinner and there's a phone records of this and was that used in court the phone records are because you couldn't use your alibi because you're his mum was that correct and I wasn't allowed in the trial I was kept till the very very last day to give my evidence I wasn't allowed in so there was no so the boys in the moped as well there was boys in the moped there did they say they'd seen Luke did they get a description of Luke no they just they were seen by other witnesses Cosner Newsom's on this bike and they went into basically Toolhire which is a business on that road and there were Cosner disturbance there and they'd gone in there and when you read now one of them they never came forward and the police were asking before these boys in the moped come forward and they never came forward for five days such an off they came forward eventually eventually but in those five days one of them had cut off all his hair now in court Finlay asked them why cut off all his hair I mean boys don't girls do it I mean I've been cutting one here for years boys not so much but he cut off all his hair now he had nearly a year to think up an excuse nothing absolutely nothing and of course we're all thinking he did that so he wouldn't look like you know the boy in the bike turn that around he cut off all his hair so he would look like the boy in the bike because he was never on that bike witness statements do not describe him until he cuts his hair off and his statements all over the bloody place so I don't understand why the QC hasn't used these statements to say look they've all changed they've all changed to say it's not really concrete is it if they've changed so many times I can't tell you why Finlay did it but we know why Finlay did it let's just say up to his bank balance a bit so who do you think killed Joda Jones the person who confessed and the person who was I positively I did and all the statements so it was look if it was ever a description gave of him at the time on the path no I've had numerous people come into my work over the years and said Corrine you know so-and-so somebody or we know so-and-so they went to the place the minute the description didn't fit look so it was look that night as well did he go out and play with friends yes and did they go to court were they witnesses they weren't in court no could that not have been an alibi yes it's a puzzle isn't it it's just shocking that they can get away with it there's a young boy who hasn't done anything he's had his entire life ruined do you think look will ever get out yeah I can visualize it in my head yes I can but it's been so long it's 16 years if look gets a retrial for this this could potentially be one of the biggest miscarriages just as the UK has ever seen and that's scary for people who may be being promoted for people who may be covered up stuff and I don't know I've got all the answers I'm just listening to your story listening to Sandra's story there's always free size to her story there's always both sides and then there's the truth it's for me to give people a platform and let them tell their side of the story without things getting twisted then fuck me there's going to be a shit storm for people who are involved and not only that there's a murderer on the loose somebody's killed a 14 year old girl innocent girl and her family will be distraught and live with that for the rest of her life and they'll probably hate me I get it because I'm giving you the platform to tell your story but your son is potentially innocent yeah and it's scary to think the judge misled the jury and I don't know how the jury fell for it because the judge told the jury that Luke when he went over the wall he turned left because he knew where the body was he turned left because that's where his dog reacted he would have been an absolute idiot had he turned right so the people who Luke was with searching for the body what was their statements at the start with Luke's at the start they all agreed with Luke's they all agreed how the dog reacted because he'd let her off going up the path with an alarming rate but then you'll see yourself it's the kind of path if there's anything on it you're going to trip over it only she was on the other side of the wall which Sandra and I went over and you can't walk this and all the rest of it but it'd gone up and of course the other such party members were there now weirdly and Finley asked her and she wouldn't answer she would not answer the grandmother insisted they go back down the path that Luke's just come up why? he would have tripped over something if anything had been there but no why didn't she search the cousin's house which she had to pass on the way down because a few months before her murder Jody's curfew is 10 o'clock and come 2 o'clock in the morning no Jody now there was no police there was no search party there was no panic Judy waited till Jeanine came in said get along to your cousins and see if Jody's there if she is tell her she's grounded for life so Jeanine went along to the cousins and sure enough Jody was there with friends having a wee smoke and on the night Jody was murdered they had to pass the cousin's house to go to the path why didn't they check she was there a couple of months ago she could have been there again why didn't they check why did they insist on going back down a path that looks just come up when there's been nothing there she insisted they went back down that path why didn't they go along Lady Path and go to the cousins house which she used to go to why didn't they search it they were virtually passing it they didn't search anywhere Judy knew that Jody and Luke used to go to my workplace and talk to my night watchman they had to pass, see where you parked the car they if you keep walking where you passed the car passed the car wash there's a path that gets you down towards that path now that's the way they came why didn't Steven he was quite a tall chap why didn't he just cross the gate, cross the fence Judy are you here, are you here why didn't they check my place they didn't check anywhere they insisted they went back down the path why though did they know more information we don't know or was it just maybe got feeling something bad sometimes you feel that feeling that something's not right we think they weren't actually initially looking for Jody they were initially looking for another family member who had gone missing that day and that's how they got there so damn early and what time was the body found Jody's quite late on what was that 11 or something like that and how many bits of DNA again different bits of DNA the crime scene we've got blood, semen, sperm, saliva hair, fibre, six and were they ever identified with any body well we some of the semen was found in a condom and that guy's been named his excuse for that is a wee bit weird but hey ho the condom that was used the guy was Master Beton why would he do that he's finished off down was it done beforehand or was it done after I don't know he's maybe been the kind of person who's got off and seen a dead body because he must have seen her where he was he must have weird, that is so weird but why use a condom for masturbating could that potentially be that somebody's seen a dead body and basically played with herself to that's the only thing we can think of was there any DNA other DNA on the condom just his and he was identified yes a few years later not at the time because the police got all excited because they thought it was Luke's and of course once it was tested like damn it's not Luke's so going forward then for a retrial so what's the process now are you looking for people to try and help you are you looking for people to try and get more involved in the case because we're basically shedding light on it anyway and more people are basically we've got to get together all the new evidence we've got and get a new lawyer who's got the guts to do it to go through with it I think people are scared to take this case on yeah he's had umpteen lawyers have they been sacked or have they left no we've sacked them because they've been useless the last one I tried to get somebody came into my work and I went brilliant lawyer for you top notch young guy wants to make a name for himself here's his number oh right yeah yeah yeah gave him all the information oh it's um Luke Mitchell yeah huge case huge I'm not that big yet well you never will be if you sit back and not do anything so he just basically ran a mile so obviously we'll go back to touch on the press as well a lot of the news papers because I know you've got trust issues with speaking to people because you have been everything said with some crazy shit we'll go back to the Milan Manson stuff a weird relationship with yourself you and your son oh there's a weirder than that just stuff that they've really they've made you look bad this is priceless the put in that Mia was our second German Shepherd our first one Luke practised on slit its throat and hung it at our front door as you would none of the neighbours would see or I wouldn't be done by the SSPCA so that's when the Milan Manson stuff comes in the drinking blood the torturing animals he loved animals I was a hedgehog carer now I got a baby hedgehog in now we knew it was going to die that night we knew it was going to die because the person who found it was feeding it cow's milk we can't give a baby hedgehog cow's milk it's going to die you've got to give it goat's milk an adult hedgehog will get serious serious sickness and diarrhea but a baby hedgehog will die now this was only the size of a hamster so it was a very very very young baby now that boy we had to feed it every two hours now he knew it was going to die and I told him because I wasn't going to sugar coat it you know there wasn't going to be a happy ending with this and I said but I'll have to stay up all night because it's got to be fed every two hours because obviously just because it was going to die it didn't mean it would have a horrible horrible end to its life you know and he stayed up all night with me I did two hours he did two hours I did two hours he did two hours there's not many 14 year olds would do that it's a hedgehog poke it with a stick yeah so that's what the paper says again he was killing dogs and slitting his own dogs through it if you're reading that if I'm reading that I'm going to have to tell him I thought he was a fucking psycho if I'm honest and that's what I did think you should have seen him with Mia in fact dad used to get quite jealous because Mia was my dog and sometimes you know their relationship was like oh god you know whoa you know they were really really close because you have another son was he ever a suspect was his name ever thrown into the mix only by the Joneses family so both sons was there any any other major suspects that for a while there was a Mark Cain now Mark Cain was a student in new battle abbey college when you see photos of Mark Cain and you see Luke you're like whoa identical twins they could be mistaken for each other now Mark Cain has a magical Marker and on the a few nights after the murder he went to another guy's house and he scratches all over his face and the guy went he gave three different accounts of how he scratched his face now there's only one account now that's the truth was there any DNA on Jody's nails or anything or nothing like that no such a savage savage crime to somebody who threw that brutality I mean a lot of our injuries were done after death so it's been somebody who really didn't give a shit about being caught but it's obviously somebody who if as innocent as you say then it's somebody who's not as daft as people think either because if there was no potentially major DNA to he's had helpers you think there's been more than one involved well definitely after we think it's been a punishment killing what's a punishment killing like he's found out something that she's done and he's punished her for it savage so for going forward for yourself and trying to shed more light on the case too because since the sandaline one's been released a lot of people have kind of changed their mind because they believe in what they see including myself and I've said this to you before when Luke Mitchell's name came up to me I thought guilty, I thought the things that the paper says I didn't know for a call about it I'm going to be honest but when you start questioning things and start looking into it no DNA the thing that got it for me is it's both passed a lie detector for six questions to get passed and who has the man again sorry Terry Mullins an interview as well to speak about it he might well do I mean he told us that you'd be willing to testify, you can't use a lie detector of course but the tester can give evidence and he said he'd be willing to do that you don't just go in and get wired up and you know fire you're asked about the DNA question he studies you as a person because he was getting a wee bit worried about me because apparently I was fidgeting nerves so I didn't realise I was fidgeting but I was fidgeting and he thought oh god I've got a fidget in my hands here how was the reaction when you got your results back from the test have you got the questions there in the bag guys and we can read them out the big bag that's it working hard today Steven I tried to find you a man bag but that's the manist bag I had go upside down there's a lot of reason to do here then that's fine so this is questions and results to your polygraph test this is done by private confidential so how many questions did you get read Corrine well you're asked quite a few but then that's just to test your reaction because I thought what on earth is he asking me that are you sitting on a chair you can see sitting on a chair but it's just to see how your body reacts when you're telling the truth so these are the questions that you got read to you during the lie detector test so question one did you lie in your court testimony during Luke's trial your answer was no which was correct yes question two did you falsify Luke's alibi regarding his whereabouts on the day of Jody's death your answer was no which again was correct question three did you burn any clothing or evidence that would incriminate Luke of Jody's death your answer was no again correct so three questions that you've been asked and three questions you've answered correctly and you were charged as well for preventing the course of justice for preventing the course of justice yes and this man how accurate as accurate as his polygraphs well apparently he's the highest in the field and you'll see by I think it's there he writes a letter to me or at the end qualifications where he was trained and what not I mean he's the highest in the UK is there footage of this as well yes was that ever put out because when all Luke's lie detector was put out yes it was put out the press when you got your results what did they do with the results was that in the papers or did they oh it was a big double page thing and I thought oh my god you've been calling me a lying bitch for years and now I'm God's gift how was your emotional reaction to when you actually got your results that you passed I just like told ya it's not closure because you're not even kinda it wasn't closure but at least it was like see told ya I was telling the truth because mud sticks it does you could take another 10 lie detectors Luke could take them but again told you he's walked at that quote an innocent man then people are always going to be judging just now even if he did get out innocent people would still judge oh God I his life will never ever be the same ever has anybody ever tried to come forward to write a book or anything or talk about your experience well Sandra's written our first book No Smoke but so much has happened since then so much and now she's written a second book I think in the future a lot more will happen it's basically this could happen to you this could happen to anybody we were a normal law abiding I mean my parents were quite I had a brilliant upbringing but they were strict to respect the police and in those days when I was young you were taught manners you were taught politeness you were taught this you were taught that if it's not yours don't touch it you know and nowadays kids aren't taught anything like that I mean I'm surrounded by feral little bleeps and they've got no respect for anything nothing so if I try to get a retrial put in place it could potentially take another few years could because courts are very slow everything to do with law is very slow say I'm 60 now getting old I'm officially old so I'd like it to happen quite soon I mean bless her my mum she never managed to make it she was hanging on to see look out but and that was total shock her and Mia did the nasty on me basically they were both sudden deaths completely out the blue my mum was at work my mum though the registrar when I went to register her death I just asked her how old her mum was I said well she would have been 92 two days after her death but you said she was working I went yes she ran the family business I mean my mum worked full time at 92 shall I really be civil strong strong women drove a lot of people nuts Irish very Irish very Irish with it but she wouldn't take shit from anybody I mean she she was registered blind but she had some vision out the bottom but she would get on a bus by herself and I'm like mum you can't don't don't that's my grandson and she actually knocked somebody off their motorbike because I'd picked her up because she'd had a heart attack and I'm like you know you're not getting the bus you're not getting the bus I will pick you up and take you to work then I will take you home it's not a problem so we're just coming up to the roundabout at the shell there and there was three guys on motorbikes and they surrounded me and they were kicking the car and all the rest of it total arseholes my mum bless her she'd never operated an electric window in a car in her life she was used to the windy windows she thought she was opening a window to shout at them but she opened the door and knocked them clean off his bike and the other two were like oh shit there's a mad woman in that car let's go so they left us alone so she knocked them clean off his bike she didn't give a shit and bizarrely Luke was the first person she was the first person to talk to Luke when he came out of school because when he phoned work she answered never ever questioned by the police ever and yet she spoke to him when he first came out of out of school was there anything you'd like to touch on Corrine before we finish up was there anything you'd like to say it's just from day dot for some reason all the rules, all the regulations everything goes right out the window when it comes to Luke for some reason if you watch the news paper and you hear a dog walker found a body but for some reason the judge didn't believe that a dog could find a body he didn't believe Mia found her why? just why why are these dog walkers not arrested they're all believed but we weren't believed and Mia reacted very very strongly although she was a trained tracker and she was good because the Luke's lawyers actually got top dog trainer up from London to test Mia now he was actually hiding things in trees and I thought she's not a bleeding monkey, she's a dog and she can't climb trees but she passed every single test though she did eat the hairy microphone she thought it was a squirrel but she passed all the tests and the lawyers didn't use it now they had a tracker at the scene because they had Mia they virtually arrested Mia, they put her in a pound which was disgusting they told me they'd given her to my mum which was a lie they had a tracker present they never used her, they locked her up a wee while after the murder they asked Luke's lawyers to get hold of a pig carcass because that's the nearest thing to a human apparently right so the lawyers were supposed to get hold of a pig carcass and bring it to the scene and the dog handlers would bring up dogs and they'd see how the dogs would react, see if they reacted the same way as Mia because the pig carcass was going to get put where Joe Davis found and they're dogs where Mia was reacting because she was reacting very very strongly I mean she was Mia was big, I mean she was big and she stood up on her hind legs at the wall and started ear sniffing because obviously she could smell the blood and she was scrambling at the wall and Luke was calling, Mia come on, come on yeah, she wouldn't move she would not move and that's when Luke remembered he'd seen the V where the stones had fallen away because the wall was over six foot he was a wee smite, he couldn't get over it they thought oh well I'll go back to the V climb through the V and go to where Mia is to see what's there and of course what's there was Jodie and that's where they say that it was Luke who found the body was the dog mentioned that quarter anything? was it mentioned to repress or was it just Luke found the body? it was just Luke found the body it doesn't look good but when it people say that no it doesn't and of course the judge didn't help because he told many members and everybody in court that he turned left because he knew where the body was he turned left because that's where his dog was reacting he would have been qualified for a village had he turned right and the witnesses and the people who are with Luke while searching for the body they agreed with that they agreed that it was a dog that found the body they even described how the dog reacted how she was up on her hind legs and ear sniffing and wouldn't come away they agreed with everything Luke said but by the time they got to trial the dog didn't do that Luke went straight to the V he obviously knew the V was there there is a lot of unanswered things and then Janine she said she saw Luke when he was over the wall which was physically impossible Janine was like 5 foot nothing the wall was 6 feet you can't see over it I think if it deserves at least a retrial for everything everybody was saying that it's true then there's definitely something suspect about everything it deserves to be looked at again to look at it again and to put everything out on the table and say that this is what we've got this is evidence we've got, this is what we've not got this is the suspects we've got but I've still got to take into consideration I'm taking it from what you're saying which is one side looks family but if everything you're saying is correct then there is a lot of unanswered questions especially with a lie detector that's proof here that you passed people will be saying she's full of shit looks full of shit I'm quite flattered they think that I'm good enough to actually fool a lie detector that's what people say they've been lying at much that they believe it but it doesn't just go with that it goes with the sweat it's three different places you're wired up and apparently when you lie you sweat but you can't tell that with a human eye you're sweating on your hands obviously your heart changes and you're wired somewhere else I can't remember where and say he does these daft questions prior so he can tell how you react asking your name are you sitting on a chair and you're looking at me because I'm sitting on a chair but it's just to see how your body reacts when you're telling the truth because don't just ask the same question once no you get it I think it's three times in different order three times in each question but in different orders it's not just three times you pass it's nine times because they were all correct and then I know you struggle speaking with people I know you struggle giving interviews I struggle with human beings nowadays I can't understand I can't understand actually what you went through and the way you've been treated even if it was Luke who did it the way you've been treated by getting your caravans burned down and your life left in turmoil it's sad to think that if Luke does get a retrial and he gets a knock out you're owed a lot and apologies from a lot of fucking people it's the way you've suffered also but again you've still got to look at the way Jody's family has suffered also but you're fighting for yourself obviously I mean my god no one can imagine what it's like to lose a child I mean I'm a mother and I can't get my head around that at all it's bad enough losing them in the circumstances I've lost them in because you still get to see Luke I still get to see him when she doesn't have that with Jody horrible, horrible but then when you know what we know it's hard and we're not doing anything to upset anybody we're doing this to fight for Luke's innocence we're not doing it to upset the Joneses we've got no interest in upsetting the Joneses they've been upset enough of course I have anything they see that mentions a daughter's name it's going to trigger off points where we show them understanding but they've got to show us some understanding as well it's got to work both ways yes which is a fair point so if we're going forward for the future Corrine I hope you get a retrial because I think if the evidence that we're getting told which is basically none I think it deserves a retrial just a tad but the justice system it can take a while again with guys speaking on Marshall who's been through that turmoil who's been through that pain in misery I've been 20 years for a crime that I didn't come at shows that it happens it happens and when people who are mentioned I'm just thanking God or whoever's up there that they abolished hanging because Luke would be dead by now and there's no coming back from that there's no coming back from that that's the experience I mean you think you know years and years after the hanging you know the family getting apology big deal you know and even with Joe Steele and TC Campbell who they get compensation but the most valuable currency in this world is your life, your time and your freedom yeah no money can you do not realise how much your freedom means to you until this happens and you don't realise how shitty human beings can be I mean I've virtually cut myself off from virtually every human being there is, I only see them when I absolutely have to because I don't like them anymore I do not like human beings anymore the trauma you've been through the pain in the misery from the press to people trying to run you over to basically try to kill you as well yeah it's sad but I just hope that you do get a retrial and a fair trial like that that it puts it to bed where everything's put on the table from the outside it doesn't look fair and that's me being honest absolutely everything that you're saying and Sandra's saying is true but the polygraph even kind of just made up my mind that he's both passed a lie detector to say to cover, to say that he's went lying on the questions because I believe one of the questions as well is did you murder Jody Jones which he says no and in which he passed oh he had to be asked that didn't he so it's such a touchy subject but it's a subject I'm not going to shy away from if I personally think that somebody's got a story to tell that there could be a miscarriage of justice and I'm going to let them speak because I will always get back last no matter what guest I got on but I'm mad enough to let people tell their story which will let you come on and tell your story and if I come on today I know you couldn't be nerve wracking you're just trying to shed some light on your son's potential case that he could be innocent so for coming on today Corrine I appreciate it and going forward for the future I wish you all the best and you get the retry that he's deserve so do I and some time as soon yes okay no problem so from your own point of view for Luke passing do you think he killed Jody Jones absolutely not and Corrine mixed you do you feel as if she was involved in some way from this case to help her son absolutely not