 2020 was undeniably the year of the Karen, because we saw far too many viral videos featuring Karen's doing terrible things and being terrible people. We saw a number of racist Karen's. We saw COVID Karen's, otherwise known as COVID-eats. And I think the most notorious one that we all remember is QAnon Karen, who did this inside of a target. Target? This shit's over. This shit's over. This shit's over. This shit's over. I can't do it because I'm a blonde white woman, fucking wearing a fucking $40,000 fucking Rolex. I don't have the fucking right to fix shit up. That is still really difficult to watch, even though it's been almost a year. Because what we saw was just a really unwell, unhinged individual who was destroying property in a target where minimum wage employees would be forced to clean all of that up. She was harassing other individuals who were wearing masks. It was just awful. But the reason why we're talking about this is because this individual, that same person who filmed herself destroying stuff in a target, she's done a complete 180. She is a new person now, and she has left the QAnon cult, and she's speaking up. And she's trying to help others. It's genuinely a feel-good story. This is good news, and I want to celebrate people who make a positive change for the better. I think that her story can really be helpful and useful in educating others, helping them to leave the QAnon or conspiracy cult that they're currently in. There's a lot of folks in this country that we have to deprogram and bring back to reality, quite frankly. And I think that sharing these examples is really important. But let's listen to an interview that she had with Alison Camarota on CNN. This is really fascinating. Thanks for being here. Melissa, what was happening in that video that we were seeing where you were destroying that rack of face masks? What were you trying to accomplish? Good morning. Thank you so much for having me. I had really lost all touch with reality. It was the worst day of my life. I was having a complete mental break, and really what had happened was I had fallen down the QAnon rabbit hole and fell hard and just lost it. I was completely triggered. And after that moment, you then went home. You were still irrational, so much so that your husband called the police. We have some video of that too. You were just spouting crazy theories when the police showed up. You were clearly in distress, and they ended up having to take you in, I mean for a mental evaluation, and I believe to a mental hospital. And so, how did this happen, Melissa, that you fell so far down the conspiracy rabbit hole? You know, I really became all consumed in the QAnon conspiracy theories because of a mix of fear, anxiety, depression, you know, uncertainty, inconsistency with the information coming out about the pandemic. I felt terrified. I was losing my business. I was watching people around me lose their business. I felt hopeless. I didn't know what to do, so I went to the internet. It started innocently enough, kind of poking around on spirituality and wellness and new age pages, or just things that I'm interested in anyway. And then as soon as the algorithm hooked me in, it really only took a matter of weeks until I was in this terrifying eco chamber that really completely changed the way that I think and the way that I processed information. And what people saw happen in my garage that day, I mean truly with my husband, who's my absolute best friend, is an ultimate act of love and selfless service for another person because he had to make a very difficult choice that day, you know, to save my life. You know, he had given me an ultimatum, you know, it's this family, you know, or QAnon. And because I had become so obsessed with it, to save the children messaging, spoke so deeply to who I am as a person, and I just couldn't put it aside. It ruined me. And it really had a significant impact on my mental health. And as you say, I mean your husband tried everything to pull you out, calling the police, as we see there in that video of you and your garage, that was one of the things that he tried. I mean, he really tried to pull you out, and as you say, the algorithm hooked you in. And he got into this kind of pattern of doom scrolling and fear scrolling, and it just feeds on itself. And so what happened, Melissa, how did you break the spell? Well, you know, I had to make, you know, a very serious decision for my, for my health and my family, and that, you know, was voluntarily, you know, seeking mental health treatment. I went and I did a PTSD and trauma program, which was really ultimately what I was dealing with. And I was exacerbating the situation and some previous trauma and emotional stuff that, you know, I had failed to deal with in my life. And I had to make the conscious choice to go and get help for that. You know, when I invested myself into that program, you know, I continue to go to therapy and slowly but surely, you know, work to rebuild my life back. And I wrote a book about it. And, you know, I was really committed to helping other people escape from this, because I really believe that it's a cult. It operates like a cult in every single way. And people don't realize that they're being consumed by QAnon until it's too late. It's genuinely hard to believe that the person we just listened to is the same individual in that video. Good for her. Like, I am all about positive reinforcement. If you genuinely change for the better, I think that that needs to be celebrated. Good for you. And look, she's probably still going through rehabilitation, still trying to, like, unlearn the bad habits that she picked up during her QAnon days. But this is really just phenomenal news. What struck me the most was how quickly she became entrenched in that, like, weird QAnon cult. So she sought out, you know, some resources when it comes to spirituality, well-being. She found some kooky actors and the algorithm quickly put her on a path towards QAnon. And she got hooked in the span of two weeks. That's really, really alarming, because what she's describing here is exactly what we've seen with the far right and how people kind of go down that right-wing rabbit hole and end up becoming radicalized and joining the alt-right. You know, young men who watch an anti-SJW video, they then get recommended Ben Shapiro or Stephen Crowder and then Stefan Malonew. And they like that. They consume as much content as possible. The algorithm feeds them more. And then they eventually go down this path where they are completely brainwashed. And the same thing happened. Like, it really shows you how much big tech and social media controls our lives and how these algorithms are set up to keep us coming back to the platform and how that may be dangerous and how, as individuals, we need to be much more responsible in the way that we consume media. Like, that the resources that we listen to question the motives of the individuals who we hear talking. And yes, that includes me as well. She says, I had really lost touch with reality. I fell down the rabbit hole and lost it. And she says that the way that QAnon affected her was it literally changed the way that she processed information. It changed the way that she thought. That is really substantial. Like, to me, I always viewed QAnon as one of the dumbest conspiracy theories. You know, it's not compelling to me. It's not even a fun conspiracy theory, like UFOs or Illuminati or something of that nature. Like, this is a more boring, dry conspiracy theory, but it doesn't matter. Like, once you're in, you're in. And any evidence to the contrary that doesn't penetrate the bubble that you've created for yourself because you put yourself in these echo chambers where they constantly reinforce one another and confirm each other's biases. And it really makes for a dangerous situation. And to her, she's really lucky to have someone care for her, her husband. Because without him, she kind of implied that she wouldn't have come back to reality. And this is why, when I was talking about Donald Trump, when after the election, he was seemingly spiraling, he wouldn't believe that he lost the election. He started to buy into his own delusions about Joe Biden stealing the election. This is why I stressed that, like, folks around Donald Trump need to intervene. Because at that point, like, it's not going to be evidence that brings you back. Part of the issue is you need to have the desire to do better for yourself. But if you're going to trust anyone, it's going to be someone that you're close to who you trust on a personal level, such as a friend or a family member. And without her husband, you know, who knows if she would have saw the light and, you know, would have come back to reality. Now, there's also a really crucial component here that she touches on, mental health care. She got mental health treatment. I mean, this is someone who was a small business owner. She had money. So she had underlying mental health issues that weren't addressed, I'm assuming. And, you know, that kind of led to her going down this really bad path. And had she had mental health care, perhaps this could have been avoided. It emphasizes the importance of mental health care. But more importantly, it speaks to an issue in this country that nobody really seems to take seriously. It's that mental health care is health care. And if we're genuinely trying to help people overcome the delusions of grandeur and, you know, overcome these conspiracies that they buy into, they have to have mental health care. She was lucky enough to be able to have mental health care. But there are a lot of folks who are knee-deep in conspiracy theories who don't have what she had, mental health care, or don't have a loved one who's willing to intervene, but more importantly, have a therapist, have medication, if need be, to help bring you back to reality. And that really is the tragedy of this story because it speaks to how it's kind of a losing battle that we're fighting. Because if we don't actually offer comprehensive health care in America with mental health care, then how do we expect to actually get through to these folks? Like we see the mainstream media talking about the need to deprogram QAnon conspiracy theorists, but nobody addresses the elephant in the room that a lot of these folks have underlying mental health issues. A lot of folks who don't have health care are susceptible to being duped by charlatans. I mean, it's not just about mental health care, but she was looking for, you know, videos on natural health. Maybe she was seeking out homeopathy. She was looking for folks who would talk to her about spirituality. Like imagine the danger that this poses. Let's say you have back pain or you're sick and you don't have health care so you can't see a doctor. So what does that lead to? Will you do your own research and you could find yourself, you know, in the arms of some weird huckster on YouTube that pushes some weird care and maybe you take this person's care and you think that it helps you because a placebo effect is very strong. And then you start trusting that person and then you get roped into whatever kooky thing they're pushing. I mean, without adequate health care and mental health care in America, this is going to continue to happen. Not just when it comes to QAnon, but we're going to allow charlatans to be emboldened by not offering people real health care. Because, you know, if you have a doctor, then odds are you'll be less likely to seek out help from some moron on YouTube who's telling you to like, mix a couple of spices together to cure your sore throat. We need to offer people mental health care. Otherwise, folks are going to stay radicalized. Otherwise, they're underlying mental health issues that perhaps led to them joining QAnon movements and cults aren't going to be addressed in a meaningful way. And I do want to emphasize that I'm not trying to tie conspiratorial thinking to mental illness because that's not necessarily the case. These are two different things. But in this one instance, I think that this individual demonstrates why mental health care specifically helped her in this instance. I do want to say, however, that there are reasons to believe that if people actually did have mental health care or health care in general, that would make them less prone to be duped by charlatans who are trying to basically profit off of them. And I speak from personal experience, like how easily there are so many charlatans that want to take advantage of you if you don't have mental health care. So when I was in my early 20s, I had just come out and my coming out process was cut short because I was outed to everyone who ever knew me. I told what seven, maybe eight people that I was gay. And then in a day, just like that, everyone knew that I was gay and it was scary. I felt vulnerable. I felt physically threatened that there were folks that wanted to harm me. And that led to me having a complete mental breakdown. And I developed a panic disorder where I would have constant panic attacks to the point where I felt like my life was ruined, like I had no control. And the issue is I couldn't afford a therapist. I couldn't afford a psychiatrist that would give me the treatment that I needed, cognitive behavioral therapy. Now, luckily I did have healthcare in the sense that I had like one of those shitty pre-ACA era plans where it's not really healthcare. If you have a medical emergency, like you're gonna go bankrupt, but it does cover like doctor visits. So I was able to get medication, but that wasn't sufficient. I needed like the full treatment. I needed therapy. So since I couldn't get therapy, I couldn't afford like $200 an hour office visits to a psychiatrist or whatever I needed. I sought out my own treatment. I went to YouTube, right? And I learned very quickly that there's a lot of charlatans who try to take advantage of you. So there'd be like these videos that are like 20 minutes long, 25 minutes long, and they tell you how to overcome panic attacks. So I watched these and I thought, oh my God, this is great because these folks are describing exactly what I'm feeling and experiencing and the symptoms. And if they say that they overcome it, then maybe they can help me, but there's always a catch at the end of these videos they say, and this is how I overcame it. Subscribe to the seven or nine step program for $80 or $30 a month. This is my method and now I live a normal life. So if you wanna know how I overcame panic disorder, then you gotta pay me. And I thought, wow, this is really disgusting. I'm doing everything in my power to help myself like do better because I can't afford a psychiatrist. And anything I've seen online are just folks trying to take advantage of me, trying to get me to pay. And I was like, I was so desperate that I wanted to pay, but I shouldn't be paying someone who's not a professional to teach me how to overcome panic attacks. And most of these folks are complete frauds because you never like fully overcome it. You just learn how to deal with it. You come up with coping mechanisms. But I apply my situation to other folks situation and how if they got their mental health issues or health issues addressed, there would be a lot less inclined to seek out charlatans and conspiracy theorists online. And so there was kind of a red flag when she said, look, I created a book about this because I wanna help people. If you truly wanna help people, you offer that book for free. I mean, you could come up with a donation link and say, if you like the book, you can support me. But if you genuinely want to help people who are in a similar predicament, you don't charge them for that. So don't buy her book. We need people to have healthcare. Like someone writing a book about how they overcame the QAnon cold isn't sufficient. It's not going to be a long-term solution. Like of course, we need to have conversations with these people and these folks need resources, individuals who overcame this themselves. But it's not going to be a meaningful substitute to actual mental healthcare or healthcare because the implication of this is that had her husband not intervened and had her committed to receive the mental healthcare that she needed, maybe she'd still be in that QAnon bubble that she was in. People need healthcare. Now, I do wanna move on to one more clip. This is a quick one. She basically gives advice to folks who have a loved one who believe in QAnon and offers them some advice as to like what to do or more specifically like what not to do in dealing with these folks. What is your advice to other people who may have a family member or friends who have fallen into QAnon? You know, I speak to people every day, family members who say what advice can you give my friend? Can you talk to my loved one, my sister, my mother? And it's heartbreaking. It gives me chills just thinking about it because I know that these people have to be empowered to make the conscious choice to leave the cults themselves. The more that people, you know, berate them, call them names, call them stupid, you know, laugh at them, mock them, they are just gonna dig their heels in harder and become more isolated, more scared and more alone. So my advice is to love these people, understand these people, try to come to even ground and reason with them as best you can. Find things, common ground things that you can agree on and start there and really try to isolate what their fears are and what's motivating the irrational behavior and obsession with QAnon because what you'll probably find out, it is motivated by fear, distrust, you know, uncertainty, not necessarily hatred, not necessarily destruction, but these people can be helped but they have to be empowered to do so. So I think that that's good advice. I think that it makes sense that name calling and shaming these people that is not going to be conducive to them having a change of heart, of course. I think that part of it is, again, they have to have that desire to change themselves and also there's gotta be treatment if they genuinely are suffering from mental health issues. I mean, a lot of times, you know, they just get duped because, you know, there's a lapse in judgment. I'm not trying to imply that like everyone who's a conspiracy theorist has mental health issues, but I think that, you know, that can result in more conspiratorial thinking if, you know, someone has underlying mental health issues that aren't addressed. But I will say this though, I think that name calling and shaming people, there is, I think, some value in making it socially unacceptable to believe really silly things. I'm not saying we should make fun of people who think stupid things. Like I'm not saying bully or harass individuals, but I think that if there is like an unequivocal denunciation almost, like a cultural response to a particular way of thinking, QAnon, for example, I do think that perhaps that can serve as a deterrent. I don't know like how effective said deterrent will be at, you know, turning people off to conspiracy theorists, but I'm worried that like the end of QAnon, which it will come to an end because it's over, it's been disproven, it's gonna lead to like this mini-industry of people who left QAnon, who are now trying to sell self-help things to other people and profit off of it when in actuality, like if we're serious as a society about helping these folks in a real way and helping others and really educating people, we need mental health care, we can't disaggregate mental health care from regular health care, and we also need education. Because what she says here is like this conspiracy theory changed the way that I think, but educating people, offering them free college, like that really helps the way that you think. Like, you know, conservatives always talk about how colleges brainwash liberals and they basically train people to be liberal, but that's not actually the case. Like when I went to college, I became an atheist. I, you know, realized that I was gay and it's not necessarily because they told me that atheism and gayness is good. It's because the way that you think is more open-minded. You read philosophy, you educate yourself and the way that you're thinking changes so that way you're not thinking using your emotions. You try to be more, you know, practical and logical and rational in the way that you approach various issues. So overall, you know, I absolutely applaud this individual for speaking out and changing. I think this is really good. I think that she can use her new knowledge and change of heart to do good.