 Okay, welcome to a new episode of Out of the Blue Comes Francis Zoo. And today I have here with me David Hofmeister. Yeah, I'm so glad to be able to have this before you go on for a week in Brazil. So we can do this today. That's great. I just have to say I'm really nervous. I don't even understand. My heart is pounding so hard right now and it was so interesting. I was talking about it in my last show that every time I started to get this this nervous energy or like something was I actually really like it because I feel there is a message wants to come through or something that really wants to come through and it's really strong and my body can feel it. So whatever that is I mean yesterday I shared with you a little bit yesterday how I was actually just hoping to fill out whether I have any questions you know that I can ask you in up close and personal way and I didn't come up with any so just yeah I came here with complete empty mind I was thinking we'll see what comes through. Yeah and the rain I hear the rain coming pounding down now and some rolling thunder so that's beautiful too. It's like we're being rinsed and washed here because it's pretty unusual usually we don't have that. It's beautiful. Yeah our days are so full I like this the flow of everything even today there was just so many things it's just been so full and so rich and and yet just through the phone calls just the the simple kindness is coming through and reassurances and and really it's great that we can have a life where we have the spaciousness to just be present and and experience that presence and feel it and then have time for for whatever comes our way. Yeah so I've noticed over the past few days a lot of phone call requests were coming in and from different parts of the country and the world was kind of unusual but as I'm getting ready to leave and there's so many things going on simultaneously it's just I love the spaciousness and it just comes out and it's just full and rich and but there's no sense of really a schedule with it it's just what's next okay what's next what's next just like a cadence. Yeah maybe we can go from here like it's almost like you're describing a mystical way of living or life that is you know on the surface or you know when you look at it it seems it could be pretty full one action after the next but the state of mind is is it's a different place almost like you cannot judge by just looking at the actions and the forms because I you know I came in this studio today just with such empty mind and it's not really new to me because I noticed from the very beginning when I start to speak in a public way the more I just like my mind just get more and more empty as I approach the time you know about when I was about to speak and I remember the first time the first gathering the first gathering I think I did with Jason we were going to talk about specialness in that gathering and that whole day all of a sudden I forgot completely what specialness was and I just couldn't put anything together in my mind I and I thought I probably should go back to the book the course and read about specialness before I you know go to the gathering and Jason said well don't undo the undoing you know allow just allow the mind to be empty and that just really care like that's something that has never really changed for me like so every time I I come to deliver a message I you know just see that this body is completely being used and it doesn't have anything of its own that to say or to you know to deliver but it just get into this this this emptiness and allow things to come through so do you have do you have anything to say about that empty state of mind and mysticism that seems like the empty state of mind is is directly connected with this involuntary flow so when we are accustomed to beginnings and endings and we're accustomed to numbers and quantities and measurements and so on so forth this involuntary flow just transcends all of that completely so be like if somebody asks us how many in-breaths do you have during the day and how many out-breaths would be like I don't know I mean for most human beings they they don't count them it's just the breath continues it's in and out and in and out and and there's no counting and there's not really an awareness of it most people are not aware of their in-breath or their out-breaths during the course of the day and when we think of things like speaking or not speaking or active movement versus sitting still and these things we have categories for those we we think that those things are like under conscious control so we have categories for things that are under conscious control and then things that we would say are involuntary right but to open up to the idea that everything is involuntary so there are things that we feel we can feel is involuntary like would you say our digestion we don't really constantly do that and there's certain things that even belongs to our body what we you know sometimes feel is our self is involuntary too but there are things that it seems like we put in a category as a voluntary and that's like there is a difference there so you're saying that they're all involuntary there is the same as we digest food the hair grows and as we choose to pick up this cup of water and goes to everything that's all completely involuntary yeah it just transfers so yeah it's that starts to give you more and more of the lucid dreaming quality or the dreamer of the dream quality because everything then is the same and and and these artificial will say categories are just washing away and then is that transfers and transfers and transfers you know that's it's approaching that idea of no control over the world you made you don't have control over some aspects and no control over some it's just no control over anything so why is that I feel like I feel the difference of the involuntary I can't I can't choose the color of my hair that grows out you know but I feel why is that there is a feeling that is so different that between is that just a pure something that we just the mind is so asleep or so upside down I just get so confused it can't even tell what is voluntary what is involuntary yeah it's it's just we just recently watched that movie Lucy where you know she was using more and more higher percentages of her her brain and yeah there was that point in that movie where she had blonde hair all along and then suddenly she's walking down and it just kind of it just kind of dropped like the the black hair just dropped down almost like these dolls that you know the hair comes out and it was it reminded me of that movie Simone you know how the right how the construct the hair just kind of comes out starts off with just a face and a bald head and then the hair and then you can you know ting ting ting different hairstyles and ting ting ting different dress styles so you could say that as we become fully conscious then we become fully aware and there's a washing away of the unconscious mind or the unwatched mind is what Jesus calls it and there's this careful sense of of watching or awareness that that permeates everything and in that sense there's there's nothing to consciously try to do or or to make happen and that's very relaxing that's that's the point of of everything is to just relax into that transfer of training so unwatched mind is the unconscious unwatched just assumed there's things that are assumed that aren't actually true so sometimes it's a hard word to to find a category for but you could say it's assumed to be true right i have control over my action my next action that is assumed that's unwatched assumption and it's with some things like with with academia or lots of careers and things you don't really um you're not encouraged to to transfer into that way you you know it's more there's a lot of conditioning and reinforcement to stay in charge or stay in control it's kind of built in with all of the disciplines and with the with surviving in the world but i do think of like like artistry um it was one where there seems to be an opening to kind of get in the zone and sometimes sports maybe even maybe more individualized sports where there's not so much a looking out to four teammates or you know to collaborate in that way but but more individualized sports where you can kind of relax and relax and relax and then feel the merge where you you know you lose awareness of the body and and there's just this flow and it's very very peaceful and it's very relaxing i think of when i first trained many many years ago for to run it like a mini marathon a 10k race and we'd go out and just be jogging running running and running quite a few miles or kilometers part of the training but then there would just be those moments where you would just everything would merge and i was i wasn't aware of anything separate or specific or aware of the feeling of the body it just seemed to reach some kind of a a stillness or an equilibrium or something where it was everything was just so still and it was very euphoric as well and i think there are some of those avenues where people kind of stumble upon those kind of moments and think this is amazing i would love to remain in this state that's what spirituality really is about so it seems like what we're tapping into is this awareness that you can say it in one way is i have no control over the world i have no control over any of it and it's all involuntary but how does that fit into what i perceive is i can't remember that lesson that alisa morse song that says the secret or the secret of salvation that mentioned that was mentioned in the course um just the gist of is this is what i did and it is this that i won't do so which implies that everything i perceive is my will is i did it so i guess when i really think about it go deep to think okay is this just i did all of this or i did none of it i feel they're talking to two separates two two different selves i have no control is the self that believe it is in the world is it separate individual it's a dream figure instead of the dreamer and in that way the dream figure actually has no control everything is involuntary but when we talk about the dreamer of the dream then that the other perspective becomes the reality which is is i did this and it is this i will undo so um is that helpful i guess to to talk to people about um you did this and it is you this that you you will undo well i think it it serves to a point and then um you get to a certain point or certain stage or phase where where it starts to go beyond the words so um you know that's really where the aim of spirituality is and Jesus will say things like the our use for words is almost over now and so forth but um yeah in in this involuntary flow of the miracle it's never going to increase fear it's always designed you know to wash away fear and so it's not so much the words that you speak because you don't really choose the words specifically you're just you're choosing to tune in to to an alignment you're tuning into your intention your purpose and then the words even come in an involuntary way so um it takes away all concern about to speak or not to speak or did i speak the right things there's no second guessing there's no looking back no analyzing no trying to figure it out or compare or contrast right it's very very relaxing it is it is beautiful and i i just i just really feel inspired by this thought that we we're really here to forgive even the words like doesn't really matter you know there is no correctness or hierarchy of words because i i do notice that um there was a phase where i probably started to think to prefer more of the non-dual terms and i almost do not want to get into specifics or talk dualistic you know and almost there must be like a judgment underneath and thinking you know inform there are better and worse so what i just realized now is that you know the state of mind is the one that is really truly delivering a message it's not really about the words and the state of mind can be so steady and you can allow the words to go wherever it wants to go and meet whoever it wants to meet at whatever level and there is no hierarchy and there's no better or worse so because that's what i observe from you like the state of mind is so high and beyond this world world but when it comes to there is no restriction or judgment around talking about specific problems relationship issues health issues it's it's never like yeah it's illusion and rise above and yeah you know and i just feel i feel very humbled by by that realization i have to say because i see how the mind is addicted to judgment and use you know still you know use different ways and to judge and just when i when i saw that any kind of preference and selection and truth and not allow whatever in the moment words or whatever to come through in the complete equal way just to see that that becomes a block you know that has nothing to do with the state of mind and even that as a protection or a maintenance of a self-image you know that could be a block as well so i just i feel inspired by by this realization and i know you talked a little bit about this with with the host of the buddha at the gas pump show yes i just watched today yeah yeah rick archer yeah we talked about that yeah and and just as he was talking about his glimmers of it and glimpses and and we would just kind of go into it deeper and deeper but i think you could say that with a number of things that we have a lot of signs in this world like i've always enjoyed watching comedy shows and typically even comedy shows in hollywood you know they have their start point their stop stopping point they have the different characters or persons that are part of it and everything when you have an ensemble cast um they have writers and then when the credits come you know you'll see the names of the comedians or the actors and the writers and producers and directors and so forth but actually the funniest um comedy that just goes off the chart is is that called ed lib um where where they're they're away from what the writers have written um they start to get a feeling i think inside it's just so funny and so humorous and then it it guides and directs it just kind of goes in an involuntary way and whenever i would watch these shows they were quite famous shows but when a character or some of the two or three of them would start to get into ed libbing would just turn outrageously funny because that was part of it it was out of control and they liked it you know you like out of control yeah it's like our friend what was the one there's a song i lost my job and i like it hello right she wrote her book but i lost control of my comedy and i like it um you know that's kind of the feel you get and um and i think that's the same thing that we like with different interviews or whatever where there's just a deep connection but everything is as ed libbed everything is just coming so spontaneously yeah um we don't have cue cards here and we're no uh prompters and readers you know yes the non-dual way is you know we just don't have any of that and there's a lightness and a spontaneity you know and a joy with that and again i think it's just allowing that to transfer to everything else i mean if you talk to the comedians they would say wow it was an amazing show and they would even watch the re you know the taping of it the replay and would just probably roll laughing at seeing it but then you know going home to what seems to be a home on a personal life dealing with the daily issues of being a human and so on and so forth and it's not that feeling of of kind of ed living but the course of miracles does say it is possible to listen to the voice for god all throughout the day without interrupting your regular activities in any way it's basically saying you can do this and you have to really be willing to do it and i think you have to trust that that is going to happen because i right before i came on your show i was completing a few more calls and one of the calls of a friend who's been working with the course and working with our community for some time and everything you know had just let go of her car and was just moments before the call had had gone into quit her job and was feeling them very strong except there was just some undercurrent under there like it was still maybe in disbelief of the whole thing even though it was feeling very guided very prompted and very really maybe exciting even of well of how this adventure would go she told me earlier a number of weeks ago that she was inspired by peace program actually and um was you know wanting to trim down i got a call or was it actually an email last week a same thing a man a friend of ours saying i feel to lighten my load and sell all my possessions and and just go for it there's like a call into that spontaneity into that trust and away from the the seeming structures that provide safety and security that's it i think that's um that's what's behind this show as well when i first uh felt the prompt of of this show and there were suggestions of um of the names for this show um and i was talking with jp and he said um what what um what do you feel you want to deliver like what is really the purpose of this and you want the name to constantly remind you and i you know at that point i didn't know the name but i thought i i would like to extend the inspiration that's in the mind that is fresh and that is out of the box so which means not not restricted to rule or not something that is correct only correct i want it to be like only correct yeah like i don't know what is correct just just be completely fresh and inspiring and you know as as you're saying sometimes in this world the problem is their their their duality and we're trying to avoid one side and pursue the other side and it's never gonna happen and it's the same even if i want to use language in a way that it's it's only correct and it's not incorrect you know as however i put a mark or the division it's just never gonna work but really the speaking becomes a way to to watch judgment and to wash through all the judgment and blocks to yeah just to um to the awareness of love really so that's why out of the blue is you know just out of nowhere and that does remind me every time that you know there has no rules and there is no box and we can just allow the the moment to come up and whatever that's fresh and inspiring to be extend through this so yeah it's beautiful when you can just see that it's you're doing it to extend an experience and that's completely and only why you're doing it it does it does not tainted with other motives you know for example if you took something just as simple as like a a television show or an internet talk show or anything like that you know as soon as you bring in the commercial component as soon as it involves ratings as soon as it involves audience and size of audience and target audience and um you know a woman called me with a marketing call a couple days ago and she was talking about google and she was making some suggestions and she said you know have you heard of google analytics and i said oh i think i might have heard the name and she said well you should check it out and i think it could help you it's really that's a good example of demographics and who's clicking on what and where they are and you know all kinds of things as if you can find out more specific knowledge and it can help whatever your target audience or your marketing or whatever and so i went on there and just came to the introductory page and they said uh yes for a fee of only one hundred and fifty thousand dollars per year your business can take advantage of google analytics okay well you know but that was a quick but but actually uh it's the purity of the motive it's the purity of what is it for that's good i mean i'm heading down to brazil and you know they had ambitions of getting a lot of things books translated healing in mind and different books translated into portuguese um in advance of my coming and and making a lot of free copies for the people to pass out and everything but but we really didn't have a real good um translation of healing in mind so in the end they picked a very small little booklet very deep and precise and concise purpose is the only choice and they were able to translate that and now it's i guess it's been a couple hundred copies have been printed off they're just going to give those away but there's a simplicity when we come to what our motive is what is it for and i think what is it for is a question that that is designed to simplify everything and also wash away the ego because the ego doesn't really understand purpose and yet it's there the spirit's purpose is there for us it's this unified purpose for everything it brings fragmented perception together into this beautiful holistic perspective so i i think it's just wonderful to just come forth with just that the purity of that and not have any other motives that's beautiful that's beautiful there's one thing that just came to my mind as you were talking um is you are you know you are considered or recognized or seen maybe by people as teacher as a spiritual teacher so i guess i want to explore a little bit about teacher-student relationship and what is really what is really about for you i guess um you know as the course i remember when i was living in in sydney australia and when i first pick up the course i read that is a self study book and then i started a group i i didn't want to i i couldn't really teach at the point i just facilitated um the group and then i i was hearing about you and there was a resistance in the mind when i first heard about you and now when i look back i can see how just any judgment about anything really is to be forgiven for my own freedom but at that point at that point the resistance was um teacher like almost like a teacher is necessary so but then i came to you and i be you know i just started to just really um practice whatever that um that was guided um by you i was actually seeing you as a wayshower you know um so i guess that would be interesting to maybe just hear your perspective do you see me as your student no it there comes a point where there's certain metaphors and steps almost like rungs of the ladder and and they seem for a time to to have a meaning and they get used and they're spoken of and the spirit seems to be using them and then and there comes a point when everything starts to fall away or everything you could say merge is a better word because it's you're coming into holistic perception and then the idea of teaching it it's pulled off of bodies so it's no longer the concept is no longer associated with bodies and so it's more teaching is more associated with thought and and then this idea comes in that you're teaching all the time it teaching isn't something that's done with a body or through a body which when we talk about teacher you know those connotations come up right away they even have awards for teacher of the year and they're talking more of academics you know grade school and high school and university and so forth but you you start to see that it's that to teach is is to think so it's then it's synonymous with thinking so then you see that you're teaching all the time and then it's it's not so much a matter of if you're teaching or if you're not because you're teaching all the time or when you start teaching or you stop because you're teaching all the time the question then becomes what am i teaching and that would be based on your on your state of mind um you're teaching and you're learning a state of mind and then to be a consistent teacher you can't really ever become consistent with the ego you could never be consistently wrong-minded that's impossible because it contradicts um how the mind was created you can become increasingly right-minded and then ultimately consistently right-minded because that's a reflection of reality so it can go that way and it does go that way inevitably it goes that way like lucy you know it was she knew that it was a very short time maybe 24 hours that she had but she intuitively knew uh that she was going into wholeness and it was reflected at the very end when when the question was asked you know where is she where is she where is she and then finally um on the cell phone i am everywhere you know that was the answer and and so here at the metaphysical center where we are right now um when we came in fascinating place and it has a blackboard there in the kitchen and uh when i first came in there was some chalk around so it was like draw a heart teach only love and it's still there nobody's erased it or spit on it or anything it's amazingly however many years three years ago or so that it's it's just still there as a reminder but i would say that we teach by attitude and if our words are in alignment with our attitude then that just helps lend um some support to the words i was just did a good a good at the gas pump um good i did that interview and and i talked about words or but symbols of symbols twice removed from reality and we were kind of having fun letting the them come in a very flowing and voluntary way it was a very joyful and experience but but i was teaching in there and saying that basically it's the attitude that does the teaching and it's not the words so really everybody's teaching yeah so so everyone's teaching and they're teaching by their attitude and whether they're words or they're not in whatever the facial expressions or whatever it's it's being done at the attitude level and it's good to think of it that way because then you move beyond concepts of teachers and students and the teaching begins sometime and it has an end you know a teaching session as if it has a beginning and an end it all just starts to merge together because everything is together in actuality also i was asked too about um this thing of enlightenment and i said well people aren't enlightened so you know when the question comes do you say you're enlightened you know again it's i said on the interview that david isn't enlightened because people persons don't get enlightened that's again it contradicts um like mainstream i wouldn't even say mainstream but probably uh metaphysical circles or non-duality circles where we're talking about enlightened teachers as if there's enlightened teachers and unenlightened teachers and one thing we know about enlightenment is that it's all inclusive so even within that metaphor it wouldn't make sense to have enlightened teachers and unenlightened teachers but when you you could talk about an enlightened mind would just be a mind that knows itself or an enlightened soul is a soul that knows itself but the interesting thing about it is what you experience as yourself you also see everything in everyone as as well because everything is ultimately the same and the split mind is not a real split and therefore it's mind is all encompassing and and holistic so again that that can be felt as an attitude where you just feel this love and connection and oneness and every it automatically includes everything because there could be nothing apart from that oneness but it goes way beyond these concepts of teachers and students and it's not surprising too that that sometimes even teachers would retire uh because the you might say that the very concept of a teacher has to be retired at some point just like student right has to be retired or even seeker spiritual seeker you have to retire that concept at some point in order to experience yourself as you actually are and um that time comes that time comes for the laying aside of those things right i can feel it that's beautiful yeah there's nothing to contradict you know it's i i feel this connected experience but when people say something or write something like somebody just wrote in recently a couple weeks ago saying um that they were very impressed with my students and um and so on and so forth but i really don't see it that way i don't even have a student um but but it's all just interpretation there was a time when people would come and say i am your student and and if i at that point had said you know i i don't have students or whatever they'd say oh you reject me or oh you turn me away or whatever but it's not it's not that that there actually are students that could be rejected you know you the very idea you know doesn't have any make any sense right and so so a lot of times people will say things and it's the same when you travel when you and i've traveled if i travel with a the woman travel partner or with a companion or whatever then people will say oh your wife your girlfriend or so yeah the first time we went to china it was it's amazing to be it was like they didn't have gossip magazines but it was like a gossip buzz seem to be all around us just showing up there yeah yeah but it's the mind perceives what it believes so if it believes in that construct then of course it's going to perceive it regardless of what anybody says or does it's it's perceived yeah it can be like i don't know a comforting symbol or something and these questions of um relationship you know sometimes i feel recently i just feel like i don't really understand this word because it seems to okay are you asking whether the two bodies behave in a certain way that fit in a box or you're asking about an experience because i am is mine i can i can feel this this this i am mind and experience and it feels like this body okay if you ask about the category okay then that's the answer no but experience wise it's very it doesn't really fit in a category or it can be boxed in or labeled or defined it feels a vast connectedness um when it's given in the moment and there is some kind of quality that's the same with whoever that shows up you know in different forms but so i feel like it's almost like if i say yes that means something if i say no that means something else but the experience is completely transcend that label for um relationship it's almost like implying that i'm relating to you or i'm relating to other people in a specific way but um it's almost that there is no consistent there is some kind of consistent still it seems like the form when we talk about there is no control around the form so it just feels like the script is playing out and the bodies seems to be in certain way with a particular one for a certain period of time but the experience is completely beyond that yeah it's a world of specifics and and it's made by the ego and yeah the ego asked the first question what am i and it it made up a bunch of specifics so it asked the question and it made up its own answers and it made up its own boxes and its own concepts and its categories and they seem to be shuffled around and seem to be ever shifting and changing so there's a there's an uneasiness with all this shifting and changing it's very unnatural the mind is used to being calm and still and actually abstract so this world of specifics is a world of deception and all of these concepts are all part of the deception and so even around any word it it's going to have um initially it's going to have specific connotations so relationship you know it's like like when Freud would do free associations you know or psychoanalysis would would endless would come up with say a word and then they would free associate very much like uh workshop ink you know what where they show you ink box and so say what you see say what you see if these associations in the mind and then as you go deeper into purpose you start to unwind your mind from all these specifics and the specifics then don't have the same meaning that they had before they're more like just props and they get used here or there to serve a purpose but but the specifics lose their meaning completely and this is why miracles are involuntary that even when you're someone's asking a question it's usually because there's a curiosity there but there's a fear underneath the curiosity because this this I don't know who I am and I don't know who you are and I don't know what's happening to me it's a little bit like Alice going down the looking glass and the shapes and the sizes or proportions are different and you know and there's mad hatters there and it's you know that's about how it's a good description of this world um this Carol's Alice in Wonderland it's it's kind of a good metaphor for this world so recently when we went down to Florida to share uh about the book on mind your mind you know we agreed to do an interview before the workshop started and then when we were there just as an icebreaker our interviewer came in and she said just can I ask a personal question before we get started and again it's just it's an attempt to to kind of get a context or or have some kind of connection connection or even if it's a conceptual understanding and so the question then came out before the cameras were rolling everything are you are you together and I remember you just kind of looked it kind of like curious questions and then are you two a couple you know in other words that was the meaning of the question and then you said shook your head no and it's like oh okay and then that that was a conceptual thing it really nothing ever stops at that level of specifics but it can be just uh that's a context but really uh you know I've said that for years you know like are you a couple I I would come back with another question a couple of what and they would go a couple of they just weren't ready they weren't ready for the return question they wanted a yes or no answer to the first question and I'd say I'd answer the question with a question a couple of what and they'd be like the what is a real question are you a person what are you is like is a real question in fact Romana Maharshi would say you know that's such an important question that he based his entire pathway to self-realization on that one you know who am I who am I you know so it's it's an important question but if that's an assumption it's the assumption of personhood it's assumption that everyone's a mask is it a single mask or a couple mask or is it a group mask is it are you a group are you a community you know those are the kind of things there's just a bit of fear underneath all the questions because the mind doesn't really understand what the what the question really is and the questions as Jesus says in the course aren't really real questions that they're ego statements right so just imagine you know you've got seven billion people going around and and what we think are you know real questions between the seven billion are just the ego restating its basic assumption of separation huh so when you put it in that context it's it just gives a whole new twist to it and then you see a movie like her right no which you know is all about opening up past that fear coming to true deeper connection a lightness a laughter a trust and intimacy and then that still starts to grow stronger and stronger until you know it's like were you talking to somebody else how many well she's saying i'm doing simultaneous conversations and it starts to multiply way beyond the comfortable confines of of interpersonal relationship and it goes way way way beyond that and the same with the movie we just saw lucy another scarlet joe henson movie and then i just had got off to a phone call and they apparently along with lucy she's released two movies at the same time the other one's coming but under under the skin under the skin or something like that so i was told you've got to see that one too okay so it's like okay another scarlet joe henson film to see but but underneath it is it's that washing away of the questions in the end i love it i tell you i feel i'm actually really touched by what you're saying because i see this is what we say as not no compromise because it's not about who is right and who is wrong when people ask a question i'm not here to say there is no persons and this question does not make sense to me you know it's about it's not it's about love and connection and just really see what's underneath all of that and jesus said in the book you never don't forget how frightened your brothers are and just remember the purpose of everything is about love and connection and it's not about being right proving anything you know even even that like just someone asked a question and that's where you know comes back to what we just talked about like the the love comes down to wherever that it means where the mind is at and has opening and you know in that everything become clear and seen as where they are because nothing really needs to be you know collected corrected except this vision this awareness you know that doesn't see what is really going on yeah so thanks for that yeah it's it's a beautiful insight it's a beautiful wisdom that that you don't have to correct anything or anyone and then there's just like this gentle watching there's a lightness there can be some smiles and some light gentle laughter with it but but there's not a sense of trying to prove anything or be right about anything right because that's that's really what we're teaching you know we're not teach the right to be right in this world or in anything because there's nothing that's more important than what's underneath all of it that's love yeah even the course like when jesus said to Helen this you know scribing seven years of effort and this amazing book is nothing compared to my love for you yeah yeah that's amazing that after all of that that that's really what it was all about and in this interview i did for buddha the gas pump it's whenever you come together and it's just kind of a meeting in the mind and there's these deep kind of almost ontological philosophical questions that will come up but the presence of love is there that just infuses every word it's and the gentle lightness and the laughter that's that's really what the teaching is and then if you follow it you know you can follow some very deep directions that gets all pointing to unification and it's leading away from doubt and fear and skepticism and it's pointing into acceptance and and simple kindness and simple respect and yeah we have to feel grateful that there's this context of even community is just another context it's nothing special or different there's nothing special about it at all but it's just a context you know to teach what you would learn you know extend the attitude that you would keep in your own awareness and it's a great opportunity for that and i think i think we both enjoyed it and i think everyone that's that's come i just watched the la casa de milagros video coconut tv that maria maria put together or she just visited our vibrant community in mexico and put together this interview it's just so so beautiful yeah yeah and that and i could feel that there was so much sharing of the gratitude and appreciation for that and it's something that we cultivate we just carry with us in our hearts so when you and i've gone to like to china again we there are many people there and it was i've always had fun saying when we went over there it was like the beetles you know when they first came to america there's so much attention and swirl of things going on and everything but we were just really having fun with all of it i did say before going i said it's john and yoko going and uh and so just enjoying it like like they seem to do pretty good i mean it it would get to him occasionally um but it would always be something personal um but they they were aware of the vastness i think of that was behind it all right and would stay kind of tapped into that as best they could and for us it's you know that's our life it's it's not we're not trying to get a glimmer here and there it's it's about truly staying and extending that all inclusiveness that that vastness you know with everything and everyone regardless of whether it's a it's an interview or going out to dinner um nowadays i'm sure if we went back to china's you know even in the time since we were there last time it's it would even be more surreal than before and maybe even more comical like that movie Scarlett Johansson that lost in translation with Bill Murray and uh it actually didn't feel a lot of loss in translation when we first went there i feel there is almost a universal language that was so loud that was present that people could hear you you know it doesn't really matter just like they look at your eyes and they cry i just watched that with amazement people just cry and break apart and couldn't be away from you because they felt something that's not really in in words and in language yeah yeah i think it's when we talk about it being involuntary the miracles of voluntary what that really means in practical terms is you you have to be clueless really about everything you have to stay clueless and it's really not hard you know because it's easier to be clueless than to to think that you have a clue right it's much harder to think that you have a clue because you'll get into expectations and and you'll get into all kinds of fear and worry and anxiety but you know you just don't assume that you know it's fun to practice that um with everything like um it's fun going to the airport and not being absolutely sure the plane will take off and and that's a fun experience and then so in the in the rare rare rare chance when the plane doesn't take off you're like okay you know it's right in the flow of of everything you're not assuming anything and uh i felt that too when crossing into different countries i never assumed that this body would go into another country um it's just almost like you're just pleasantly surprised about everything because you're so clueless you're like oh this is the way it is oh this is the way it is so this is the way it is you can stay in that kind of childlike sense of wonder with everything but and then nothing really can go wrong you know you can't really be late or you can't be early so there's no anxiety around either of those um you can't really be delayed at all you know it's it's like that movie Lucy was all all the human definition is all tied in with time and if you are clueless about time then then you might say you're you're fully who you are but it's certainly not the human um it's certainly far transcends the human being and that's a wonderful thing so i i like that and i i know that that takes trust i i just read um an article a day or two ago where this uh the woman was it Sophie Capra or the woman who shot lost in translation the oh yeah Copp Coppola Coppola Sophia Coppola she was describing that um that whole process where um she had in her mind she'd she'd lived over in Japan so she had a lot of experiences and and the hotel she had stayed in the hotel there and lived at that hotel so they allowed her to film in the hotel and she was so happy to get Scarlett Johansson on board to do anything but but she just was not sure about Bill Murray she because she said nobody knew whether he actually would show up come to Japan to film so they got the whole crew there she's there they got the hotel Scarlett Johansson they've got everything the whole movies planned but nobody really knew if if he would actually show up and yet they went ahead with all their preparations as if they were going to shoot a movie and um and then they were happily surprised when he you know he did show up and and then and the movie went on and but um it's nice when you you can stay in the cluelessness and you can really that's really staying in the moment and not thinking you know what's coming next or you know how things are supposed to go and all those you know constructs and judgments you know that's that's where the difficulties always come in because there's always something like Jesus says you always add a little bit to the script or you attempt to add you know always add something the ego is trying to add something in all the time and that's where these expectations get generated but there's no need to to persist in that way of living thank you so much i really enjoyed this yeah me too me too we just show up yeah and it's great that you're doing this show because that i know we are scheduled to show up and show up quite a few places this year and yeah yeah you have such a busy schedule you know brazil and here strawberry festival mexico then ireland scotland we've got california in there in right i forgot that bay area and whole europe and then whole south africa yeah yeah which is nice because it's for me that's it's got a surreal quality you know it's more like just observing it and it's not i don't feel like i am moving it's just you know it's like the the scenes are shifting but very much like when you're watching a movie or or you're viewing even viewing a photo album or whatever you know you feel quite stationary and then just coming and passing and passing and passing thank you so much you're welcome how does the blue comes