 from Seattle, Washington. It's theCUBE, covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the CloudNative Computing Foundation and its ecosystem partners. Okay, welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE's live coverage, day three of three days of coverage here at KubeCon 2018 and CloudNativeCon, put on by the Linux Foundation and CNCF, I'm John Furrier with theCUBE, with Stu Miniman, breaking down all the action. Our next guest is Hussain Kassal, who's the vice president of marketing and partners of NewAge Networks. Thanks for coming on, good to see you. Thanks John, good to see you. Love that shirt, automation. Yeah. That's the theme. That is. CloudOperations, thanks for coming on. So take a minute to talk about what you guys are doing at the show, what's the key value proposition you guys are part of, what conversations you're having. Great, so for NewAge, we basically deliver a software-based virtual networking solution and a lot of our customers appreciate the value we bring because they have multi-cloud environments. They have workloads on on-prem. Those are mixed, some VM, some bare metal, some containers. They have workloads in public cloud and we will enable them with our software is to stitch all that together using an API-driven networking model that has policy applied to the workload and you have that mixed workload environment with network policy and security built into that fat one. And that's kind of where we help not really break what Kubernetes brings to developers but maintain that, giving the IT and infrastructure folks the ability to have visibility control and maintain. We just talked with Aparna from Google. We always talk to the same conversation with some of the senior people at AWS and all the clouds. Obviously cloud operations is what everyone wants. That's the preferred environment, whether you're on-premises or in the cloud, Edge is now on the horizon. Storage network and compute is still core. It's just a little bit different but there's new jobs that are emerging around Kubernetes. You see the job board but it's also revitalizing older roles. The network guy, the storage guy, the server guy, traditional IT enterprises are now seeing those roles transform. So I got to ask you, as you guys are in the middle of all the networking side, how do you see that person, that role, that piece of the puzzle in an IT enterprise change with Kubernetes? Absolutely, I mean, the one thing that we had some of our customers do is that these roles are no longer defined by specific, you have to have this mixed skills. You have to understand what the developer needs as an infrastructure person and the developer needs what kind of tools that they need to implement so you can do your job and that's what Kubernetes and when you're talking about networking and security, you have to understand Linux, you have to understand programming to be able to give the developers the tools that they need to develop and understand the requirements and then by the same token, they need to make sure that from a network perspective, you need to understand, you still need to visibility, you still need to control, right? And that balance can only be achieved if you kind of do the exchange roles, right? You get to work with the developers and then the developers need to look at infrastructure and that's kind of what you see at Kubernetes and then like with what Red Hat is doing with the OpenShift and a lot of the vendors in terms of integrating with CNI to be able to plug in and tap in and be able to deliver that security and networking. I think you've got a great thread there that I want to pull on a little bit. So I think back at networking for the last few decades, we used to call it multi-vendor, now we call it multi-cloud. We've been talking about automation forever, but it's different now. So I think that thread you were going on is part of that answer, but explain why now multi-cloud and automation, what's that real about that compared to what we were talking about the dominant hardware led environment that we lived in for decades? Absolutely, I mean, just you look at how people develop, look at containers, the lifetime of a container is very short compared to like a monolithic application, things are more dynamic. Some enterprises need to scale up operations and then that's why they kind of, so early on it was more like a developer testing things in their lab and when you go into production and the rate at the scale at which you operate dictates that, you know, look, I need to work in public cloud, I need to work with bare metal and then that demanded that infrastructure guys meet at demand, otherwise, you know, those enterprise are not going to be able to serve their end customers. And that's why they're kind of working with us and then even the community is coming together to address these and we're looking for performance with vendors and then even for networking and that's what's driving it. Yeah, I want to get your reaction. There was talking to somebody here at the show and they said Kubernetes is a reset for SDN. Yeah, it is. I mean, the thing is Kubernetes is perfect. There's no reason to reinvent the wheel, right? There's a lot of adoption from developers and for sure, what we're trying to do is build around it. You'll see orchestration on top, you'll see networking, it's such a good thing that everybody is, and you can see by the level of attendance, the level of interest and engagement, now what we're trying to do is like, how do we operational? What are the problems that are left for an enterprise to solve? And that's the multi-cloud piece, right? How do you do policy, network and security policy in that hybrid environment, right? For example, you look at a retailer, right? They have users using mobile apps, they have remote stores, they have data centers, they have public cloud and then they're using containers how do you stitch all that together? And that's for us, the challenge that we're addressing. And Kubernetes gives you a lot of policy knobs. Absolutely. How are you guys seeing that opportunity? Because that's where people see that kind of piece. The three letters, API, right? This API makes integration such an easy thing to do. And then we have obviously using a CNI plugin from a technical perspective to be able to work in that ecosystem and deliver what we do. We have, obviously you guys know that in OpenStack, they're running Kubernetes inside of OpenStack. And then you have people running Kubernetes on bare metal, right? But it's still Kubernetes and that's how we're able to serve our customers to kind of stitch between those different stories. All right, Hussain, let's talk about security. So when containers first came out, it was all this argument, how do I architect it? Do I have to shove things into VM or now is it a micro-VM? How do I make sure I ensure security? What's working well? Where do we still have a lot of work to do in the security space? I think like if you look at the three areas, visibility, protection, and then the third one is dynamic third response, right? So you can't protect what you can't see. And visibility is kind of the first thing that we, as networking, because we move packets around can deliver to the enterprise. The second one is isolation, is that everything you have in a pod is contained. Now between pods, if you're running in public cloud, as a bank, you may want to encrypt that traffic, right? You need to do some level of protection, whether that in-flight protection or separation between workloads. The third one is as you're moving things around and you see bad things happen, you need to not wait for a person, because you're looking at scale, like thousands of these instances that are moving around, the network is intelligent enough to act based on rules that you give it to remedial, like if there's a threat, we'll just quarantine the source or mirror traffic. This combination is what's missing, and that's kind of what a lot of network will do. I think that's an opportunity that's clear, but most people look at networking and say, oh, there's moving packet from A to B, point A to point B. It's now so much more than that, there's more headroom. What is the specific headroom on top of that? Because there's a lot of security opportunities, things are moving around, you can see the bad guys, and you get all kinds of different threats, but not just moving packets, it's other things. What's the other key things that people should pay attention to when really designing these architectures? So the one thing, obviously, when you're doing things in a lab, you're not really, you know, by scale. You're not looking at throughput, latency. Things like that, there's part of networking, and that's kind of the work that we're doing with some of the event, like Melanox and all, on terms of providing high throughput, providing low latency for specific applications. The other one is, how do you provide that intelligence, like all this data has to go somewhere to be processed to kind of work with other security solutions. Those are the two things that, you know, maybe people don't give them much thought early on, but as you scale your operations, they become real bottlenecks for you. So I want to get a chance so you get a plug-in for the company. DevOps is infrastructure as code that's kind of been kicked around since the beginning. It's actually happening. You have programmable infrastructure, you know, at the app layer, you know, for coding, but now network's programmable. What are you guys doing in that area? How are you guys extending that value proposition to your customers? Why are they going with you guys? Why are you guys winning? Where do you win? What's the one thing that people should know about in order to come to you guys? Flexibility and openness, that's the key one. We are hardware agnostic. Any switch, any network, any hypervisor, any CMS called management system, that's our focus is on networking and security. Similar to Kubernetes, you can run Kubernetes anywhere. That's how we provide networking. And we have an open ecosystem that gives you scale, performance and security without really limiting your options. So, and the thing is we evolve going forward. People can do stuff on premise today. They may move to cloud. We don't lock you into one architecture. The architectures flow, then it could be whatever. You may see the future one way today, but in a couple of months, as we all know, things change. And why would someone call you guys up? What's the pain point? What's the value? When would they know? Okay, I got to get new watch involved. Scale, multi-cloud. That's basically it. If you're looking for multi-cloud or multiple workloads and you running things at scale, you need to talk to us because that's basically where we help you solve it. Yeah. Sain, talk a little bit about how Edge fits into us too. I think back to, even before cloud, think back to the XSP. Networking security have always been the choke point. Physics still rules the day. We know, it's only getting more complicated with Edge, more surface area for security, but I have to imagine that ties into what you're doing. Absolutely. I mean, we've done, so as you decompose these things and you move them apart, your tax services increase, right? So the security is, as you move, those communication channels have to be protected somehow. We have an SD1, like an extension, which is basically part of getting into the Edge, adding more intelligence at the Edge, because that traffic is coming from the Edge to the core. It could go to public cloud and being able, as an networking solution, to steer that traffic securely using encryption or whatever have you in terms of visibility, provides those enterprise with a secure sound platform to really do their business. What's your take on the show? 8,000 people, up from 4,000. We were comparing it earlier to AWS re-invent. Rising tide? Is it a rising tide? Is it a tsunami? Absolutely. I mean, it's a, I couldn't believe the number when they set up, because obviously we saw this all doubt to the tickets, but coming here to see all that many people and have been in earlier shores and the growth is tremendous and adoption. Well, thanks for coming on, sharing your insight and congratulations on the scale. We love it, data scale, programmable networks. It's all part of the new evolution of cloud native. It's on-premises, it's in the cloud, multiple workloads, multiple clouds. This is the choice everyone has. They're rebuilding. Don't forget networking, computing storage. There's still a whole eternity there. Congratulations, thanks for coming on. Thank you very much. More live coverage here at theCUBE, here in Seattle for KubeCon and CloudNativeCon, day three of three days of coverage. This is theCUBE. We'll be right back after this short break.