 It is the touch right here on Y254. You are just joining us. I'm Robert Osoro. I've got Ngarwa Kamuya here with the legal counsel for Kenya Holocaust Rugby Football Club. And now joining us for the first time is Wanjoy Gitea, who is the CEO of Peak Focus. And these two gentlemen are coming up. I've already come up with a sports marketing and consultancy company that is supposed to take Kenya sports to the future. Have I put that right Wanjoy? Absolutely. Very well put. I think, you know, as Ngarwa has said multiple times on this platform and really just in general about the importance of really sports functioning as a business. I think with what you are doing, I'm most proud of it because, you know, we've had the discussions and we're waiting for whether it be changes in policy, whether it be changes in, you know, as I've talked about how big football is in Tanzania. How big you see football being treated in other nations within Africa. West Africa. West Africa. South Africa. Exactly, you know. So what we're saying is, okay, we know that it's going to come to Kenya at some point, whether it be with FKF president or whether it be policy changes. So let's set ourselves up where, because really opportunities just luck and preparation. So let's prepare. We've built really solid connections based on what we do with our media company covering rugby and Kenyan sports or local sports raga. And so, you know, with those connections, with the athletes, with the coaches, with the businessmen, let's leverage on that and actually walk the walk. Ngarwa, you have been an avid sports fan since the time I met you and all that, but now you have decided to put it into action. Let's talk and talk, yes, but now it's action. And you started the sports management and consultancy and you called it to 70 degrees. Let's start from there. Why? Everybody went to 180 or 360. So the interesting thing is the backstory to it is, of course, Wanjui and I work on the three quarters podcast together. And the name three quarters came from a rugby terminology because remember our focus was on rugby or is still on rugby actually. And there's a time for the back three in rugby and they're normally referred to as the three quarters. And that's when we came up with the name because, I mean, other shows in the country were, you know, something that you could relate directly with sports. So when it came to, and from the jump, us guys were about running it like a business. It was not for fun. We were in it for business, we were in it. The main reason for the podcast was to commercialize sports in Kenya and to preach the message of commercializing sports in Kenya. So one of the things that we immediately knew that we had to do was that the podcast had to have its own intellectual property rights that had to be owned by somebody. And that somebody was a company. So we thought about names and Wanjui sat down and said look to 70 degrees is three quarters of a circle. And so came up the name to 70 degrees limited. So that's a group company. And to 70 degrees sports marketing and consultancy is one of the subsidiaries that is going to be focusing on now sports marketing and consultancy. I mean deal structuring. We've talked about commercialization a lot. Contract negotiations, policy changes if need be, athlete representation, the corporate, what is it, sponsorship sourcing. That's one arm of it or rather that's one arm of to 70 degrees. And then of course the other arm is focusing on the media angle because at the end of the day when you started three quarters podcast, the eventual goal was to have a fully fledged running local ESPN. A sports station in Kenya that focuses on sports in Kenya. So like he said, it's coming. We already seeing it in Tanzania. The good thing about Tanzania is the people who drive the economy are not the traditional businessmen like we see in Kenya. I won't mention which drive they come from but the traditional businessmen in Kenya only know how it's all about plots, it's all about building apartments, real estate. And even the ones who go into banking are very suave. But they don't think outside the box. Now that's a different thing in Tanzania. I think it's an Asian community that's the biggest in terms of business. And you see that's why Yanga and Simba have been acquired or bought by individuals. Wealthy billionaires who have bought these clubs and are running the operations of these clubs. I forget which channel it is but they have just announced that the Tanzanian Premier League, Azam, exactly Azam TV, the Tanzanian Premier League is going to be the first league in Africa where all the 306 matches are going to be broadcasted live. And by the way, it's not even in sports. Even I know I'm digressing but even in the music business, that's why Diamond is a big thing in Africa because they look at it from a business perspective, they think in their money. Knowing that Diamond is a talent, if I market him rightly, he can be able to bring me back the money. The biggest challenge or enjoy is we are young. Going against the old guys who don't want to leave this stage. They don't want to leave the table at all. They don't want to mentor anybody and all that. How do you plan to bridge that gap? Because for you, you're coming completely business, running this as a business and all that. And you've got these old guys all the time thinking of it as recreation and all that. One of the things we always talk about, whether it's culturally or just whatever it is, there's a very short term mentality that exists and we're very aware of that and know that it exists. For us, we know this is a long term plan. So even those old guys who are here, one don't want to be here forever. But also to be really honest, we also understand that you have to bridge those relationships. With what you're doing with the three quarters podcast, as much as we're there to watch and analyze the game, it's also arriving shoulders with the right people. The people who are actually making calls as far as investments. It's on the piggyback of that. I think that's a very interesting point. You know a lot of times when you think about investing, especially private equity, which is going to be really, really key for trying to do. It's usually in fintech and fintech really just being microfinancing or agriculture. So it's about an understanding that as the old guy falls off, we understand that there's a new breed of individuals who are coming in. We understand that investments have to go beyond just the microfinancing and the agriculture and the basics and has to evolve into the sports. So for us, we understand that it's time. We understand that the old guard won't be here forever, but even as they are here, it's building those bridges. And also I think with our sports marketing firm, one thing that's going to be a bit unique is we're also really big on utilizing data. Data analytics is one of the fastest growing industries in the world. You see it in Kenya. Kenya is a tech hub as far as Africa is concerned. People from West Africa come to Kenya to understand data and really grow in that sector. So us utilizing that, I think is also what's going to differentiate us a lot because we're not using technology, something that I don't think the old guards or the old individuals or those who have been in power are fully understanding of it. So when it's our time as we have a long districts in the next many years, what's going to also be unique to us is our use of data because you see it even in the States when you talk about analytics. You think about the job creations in that industry. So I think both factors are what's going to really separate us and really put us at a really unique position. And then let's break it down now for your role as a company and everything you want to do. And then you talked about policy change. That's one of the biggest things in Kenya. You usually have it like even go to our constitution, look at the lines that sports are coded there very small. It's only the sports act and all that. Policy change. These people in government or in parasattles and all that don't want to agree with the new trends and all that. How do you plan to counter that? You see, policy change is all about making it easy for the private investor to get involved. Government's work is to make an environment for the private person to invest in and that's where we are coming from. For example, one of the things we've been talking a lot, talking about a lot is can you imagine if we're able to pass a policy or cabinet paper that results in a policy change or a legislative change that says that companies that run sporting organizations are going to pay 15% in tax. All of a sudden everyone who has money invests there because they're going to be paying less taxes. They're going to be getting maximum withdrawal or maximum dividends because the tax obligations are less. That's the same thing that's what happened in the ICT sector. Like Wanjoya said, the ICT sector grew in Kenya because of the policies that were put in place for the private investor. It's the same thing that happened to the real estate sector. It was attractive policies to allow the private investor to get involved and that's what we are trying to do from a policy perspective is make it attractive for the person who has money not to go and build flats fast but to come and invest in Gormahia and take shares in Gormahia and run it as a business. So that's how we are looking at it. When it comes from an infrastructure perspective it's telling government that look guys if you pass this policy you have all the wealth individuals high net wealth individuals investing in sports and running in these organizations. The next thing you have is corporate Kenya is coming to partner with you guys. Now I always use a very simple example. You go to England the government does not own any stadium Wembley is owned by the FA Twickenham is owned by the RFU the government does not own any stadium if you go to the states I think is the best example Atlanta, Mercedes Benz Arena it's Mercedes Benz where the Super Bowl was this year Hardrock stadium in Florida Miami, it's Hardrock that owns it if you go to basketball the United Center Chicago Bulls is because of United Airlines was it United Airlines United Airlines the Toyota Center for Houston Rockets so it's these things are built of corporate the corporate America and America corporate England in England and that's what you want to bring to Kenya but you have to make it attractive for them to invest you make it you know as it is right now there's a very integral part of the laws that guys don't know about and that's section 151 of the Income Tax Act basically allowable deductions and it allows for anyone who sponsor sports it's an allowable deduction now it's very simple the problem is the governance we've talked about the people who are governing sports they are not big thinkers they think about it from a recreational perspective if I was in charge I go sit down in Bamburi I tell Bamburi look put up a stadium here it's gonna cost you what 500, 600 million shillings 15,000 sita not too much we are going to give you naming rights for the next 6, 7 years that broken down comes to about 100 million shillings a year for all intents and purposes that's 100 million shillings you have used to sponsor sports per year so that's an allowable deduction but on the flip side you have marketing for the next 7 years it's known as a Bamburi RFUEA grounds it's plastered Bamburi colors any coverage has to go if you look at the famous Alice Park for Invictus where the South Africa Alice Park has gone through 2 changes now they sold naming rights to Coca-Cola for a few years so it was called the Coca-Cola Park and now it's Emirates Emirates Airlines Arena in Johannesburg Soka City that hosted the World Cup 2010 final is actually called the FNB stadium first national bank the South African Big Bank that's how we need to be thinking but the only way kupret Kenya is going to get involved is if the environment is attractive and that's where we come in from a policy perspective so it's hopefully advising government telling government this is what we do to make it attractive you increase your tax base because it's an unexistent tax base can you imagine if Y254 grows or 270 degrees media grows and becomes a sports and ESPN in the number of people who are going to be hired very much premium in that you can buy sports at a higher level in Kenya at the moment not that easy I remember SuperSport had come in started very well was picking up and everything was good but the moment the federation came in and said now we need 2 teams and all that these guys cut off the contract for 16 teams there's no way we can add other 2 teams and all that and they went since then we have a major blackout so we have been a major blackout until I think we saw Wasito FC owner Rick Badoa channeling and I think 120 million for the basketball league and now they are being out there you are coming in because the climate outside here it's a tough climate I mean kind of echoing what Nasha said it really is it starts from the base there is an attitude towards media that transcends beyond what's happening in sports this idea that if you are working in media either because you couldn't excel in anything else so it has to be this cultural fundamental change about our approach in media I think with sports it's such a huge gap and willing to be filled but I think in addition to our perspective I think there has to be an understanding that this is going to take some time and it has to be a long term mentality this can be a short term thing and as we are saying of I personally feel like this it's permeated in the country that everything has to be short term we implement this media things the ones who may be the gatekeepers what can I get in the meanwhile in the short term so I can take what I need and leave and I think we need to change and I think that is really the fundamental issue that we are having so as we continue to grow as we continue to evolve and the beautiful thing about Tanzania is we are actually seeing it right next door you don't have to look to the UK you don't have to go to this is not rocket science exactly and there is this thing of course in Miss Africa about Tanzania and Kenya maybe being a bit better but then Tanzania is showing us we are catching up to you guys and arguably we have actually passed to you so now for the businessman for the politician for those who are responsible for creating policy as we try to plead our case I do think what's happening locally in Miss Africa is a blessing because it's showing that it's possible it's just going to take some time now talking about time Ngarwa is are you guys being over ambitious too ambitious but starting let's say small we started I think I read about the college basketball the NCA in the states and they started grooming from way back in high school through college and when they grew up to be culture icons people have actually followed them for us here we have that gap where you hear someone was in Maseno was in school and all that finishes high school that bridging now to the professional side becomes a problem guys disappear and all that is that where you are coming in from now you see the biggest thing that people do not talk about is that the reason why basketball in the states college basketball is big or college football is big is because there's an attraction at the end of the line when I finish college there's a chance of me going to the NBA when I finish college there's a chance of me going to the NFL and earning a living out of it there's a very high chance of me going there even if it's not that this guy we've just been watching last dance Michael Jordan documentary he's trainer Tim Grover Tim Grover had just finished his masters at the University of Illinois in sports science he was actually a basketball player he knew his career was ending at the end of college but immediately he got plugged into the Chicago Bulls and worked with Michael Jordan at the end of the line for lack of a better word now that's a problem in Kenya you were in high school you like playing rugby, you like playing football you like playing basketball but after you finish high school even for the guys who play for the university teams between 19 and 22 there's nothing much you're doing you have all the time to play this sport but when you finish a degree now you have to go work yet they're not paying me cooperative bank is offering me $50,000 per month it's a no brainer I'm not going to continue playing for allowance $4,000 per week I'm going to go to cooperative bank that's what now we are trying to change we are trying to make it an option that okay fine I have a business degree but I'm also good in sports and I can earn money through sports let me pursue this line we're trying to make it an option another big one there has got to be talent management usually a big one I've interacted with a few sports agents in this town and they can tell you it's like a war dealing with Kenyan sportsmen even telling them we need to represent you this is what we can do for you most of them don't understand it others understand it I think the welfare associations now they have got that understanding of what is happening talent management how key is it for your company oh it's everything because of course without talent there really is no fame to pick it back up what he said one of the things that from a young age you're being taught and the beauty of you think about sports it creates avenues where you can have much and days in companies you can have media companies so you look at for example naiki camps you find from a very young age you have these kids who are going to come for an entire summer they go there for 3 to 4 months and they get to actually train with some of the best it's in basketball one of the best point guards who either play from a college level or even NBA guys who come so from a young age you have these camps that exist where talent is being nacha at a very young age so for us it becomes a bit difficult when you are dealing with someone who starts playing rugby at 16 because at 16 you are already 6 to 7 years behind so as we continue to grow sports in the country and be able to have these opportunities so we can create camps and create these whether it be for a summer whether it be for a few weeks started at a very young age same thing happens in football in England no you have those camps that start very young so for us it's an understanding like I said we know we will pick up tomorrow we know it will take time and this is part of our growth strategy is how do we take the young people and creating the investment opportunities for the private sector to where we are able to see such things being implemented so by the time they are coming into sports whether it be in high school or post high school they have already been exposed to what it takes from a very very young age so their bodies have developed there is their understanding of marketing understanding of business and even for those who don't go into playing the actual sports there are opportunities to do other things there are opportunities for them to be coaches opportunities for them to be analysts that is actually one of the main things because everybody usually looks at front camera anybody out there looks at us and thinks that we are the only ones working here there are many people behind the scene that has got to be a big challenge ya it is but I mean as we said everything is it just has to take time even as we look at this I mean me being in the media space I can tell you it's not just what's happening last time it's the perfect example if you look to the credits of that documentary the amount of positions that have been created as far as jobs in the sector you create so much opportunity in a totally different sector but still relating to sports we know the opportunities are there the talent is there I don't think there has been a coach or someone who has come from outside of Kenya whether it be America or Europe or New Zealand and they always talk about how pure the talent is in Kenya how great the individuals are here in Kenya imagine if you are able to now channel opportunities it's good on the issue of agents just a perfect case of sports agency and athlete representation is again I think it's the easiest thing to refer to is the last dance they talked about Jordan's agent David Falk and how he he was the one who pushed Jordan to go and sign with Nike they had hoped to make 3 million dollars in 4 years and Nike made 126 million dollars in the first year arguably we can say that Nike is Nike because of Michael Jordan but the truth and the fact of the matter is Michael Jordan would never have gone to Nike had he not partnered with David Falk so it's also the understanding from a corporate perspective and understanding and saying this are the things that I think you should associate with seeking for endorsements is really being embraced by corporate Kenya but you see we don't even have to have the big corporates just how the small SM is if they give somebody 2 million shillings a year that's money in Kenya that's a lot of money so that's we're thinking a bit from a business perspective it's purely from business we need to make it an ecosystem in Kenya and like he has said you look at that 10 part documentary and think about the jobs it created yet it was focusing on one team one team Chicago Bulls one team created all that buzz can you imagine how many documentaries can you imagine you go to YouTube and look at this crappy videos I'm sorry I said that but they're very crappy videos about basketball or football and you see the guy has like 400,000 views and you're asking yourself how does this guy have 400,000 views but it's because sports is a business it has to sell it has to sell it's just joining as it is Y254 it is the touchline I'm Robert Osoro when Joey Gitya coming here for the first time is the founder and CEO of Peak Focus Visuals here in town and in Kenya and we are also Ngarwa Kamuya is the legal counsel for Kenya and also an avid sports fan who has now turned his passion into serious business you have put here I know you talked about it and I did not put it because I wanted to come as just a topic of its own has got to be data analytics and technology because we are one country where technology is big people have embraced it but the sports industry itself has not embraced technology how is that big for you I mean first we talk about analytics it's a huge convoluted thing and it's really not the word scares people analytics when you're watching when you're watching a sports game for example I was watching the highlights of the Milwaukee game the Bucks and they tell you things such as the team that has lost the first two games in each series has never won a championship just very interesting data that you're just collecting by looking at the historical performance so imagine you have someone who actually that's what they do it's a bit more when you talk about on the field performance but when you start being able to draw up such information and be able to provide such data those are things that we think is going to be key for us in our first sports marketing firm our analytics will probably be more not probably will be more on the field being able to understand technology where you can tell this particular player and I'll use basketball as a great example I can look at a basketball player and look at their historical performance on the field and say when they shoot on the wing in the third quarter at this point in time they're weak they're overly fatigued depending on the type of scheme you're running I know when they're going to be most effective or least effective and that's literally just being able to look at percentages playing the game and forming your gameplay around that I think the rockets have been really the pioneers and have been really big when you look at the state sports it's one industry that is pushed more by numbers performance is numbers look at baseball, football basketball, even getting to the draft it's all about number so that is the major thing trying to push it to people now exactly, we want that to have that be part of what you are doing and let people understand that also as much as sports is about the passion and caring about it there's a very mathematical aspect to it as well and that's what we're going to be using with our talent and being able to understand what's going to bring the best out of them as we manage and consult and actually not only even in American sports it's now trickle down to the predominantly English sports like for example in Dragby we were talking about it and how data analytics is able to break down affords performance and you will see that the forward has run 10 kilometers in a game but it's done 20% so then you're able to tell this forward ok you're running too much the rack is going to form here, here, here just be here so you bring down the guys running into 6 kilometers per game but his efficiency shoots to be on 20% to actually 90% so analytics is everywhere it's football the same thing you're told ok fine in the last half of the second half this guy tends to he curves it short more because he's weak he's tired, all that comes into play so eventually we'll have to get to it and technology as he's mentioned there's something this week that of course you'd expect that revenues would drop this year in leagues but it hasn't because the share price has gone up for many of those NBA teams because of the technology aspect because these games are able to be televised because I don't know 300 people are tuning in virtually because the advertising has gone to the next level because there are no funds so technology is important we've just seen the return to play protocols that the Ministry of Sports has developed even if we go back to Robert how will we know who would happen in the Kenyakap finals we don't have technology so we're not utilizing technology the other things you think about from a business perspective if you look historically at the broadcasting the broadcasting angle if you look historically in America ABC, CBS, NBC if you look in England it's BBC and in Kenya it should be the mother station, KBC KBC can be built to a level where they are able to generate their own income they don't have to wait for money from the government they can buy rights into this sports and they should be televising the sports right now as you speak so it's a whole ecosystem that has a lot of plugins we are likely to see thousands of jobs created what I was going to say actually our endgame is also this we are referencing countries that are miles ahead that have developed a talent and we understand that sometimes when you mention these topics it may sound like that's something that Kenya will never achieve that's unachievable exactly but the thing is let's take the necessary steps and everything else will work itself out I think as long as we are organizing the plan we will get there we are discussing about countries that may be seemingly far, far ahead we are not expecting to get there tomorrow we know it will take time it may sound like it's heavy but we will get there that's how we come to the end of this interview segment so that we can discuss more on the new company that they have formed it's called 270 Degrees that's Sports Management and Consultancy Farm we are there the legal council Kenya Heliquins and also 1J Gitea Founder and CEO Big Focused Visuals some Ropa Rosoro let's take a break we know your sports segment and this time we are focusing on baseball which is a big one in the United States actually one of the most expensive players one of the most paid players in the world is in baseball called Alex Rodriguez a big one there let's learn how that sport is played when we come back we will be talking with Samuel Manoanjuguna and it's all about the transfer the Lionel Messi Sagaite seems like it's not the last time you are seeing of this episode we have been doing as we also do a preview of the UF and Nations League