 Greetings everyone. Welcome to the Taiwan Post-New Wave Cinema series. I'm Bi Yu Zhang, the Deputy Director of the Centre of Taiwan Studies. This year marks the centre's 20th anniversary. We are very excited to launch this series to celebrate the centre's dedication to Taiwan Studies, bringing Taiwan to the UK and Europe. The Taiwan Post-New Wave Cinema series aims to investigate Taiwan's cinematic landscape of the past 30 years. It is really our pleasure to welcome Dr Lin Tingying today, one of our centre's regular contributors. Dr Lin is multi-talented. She's an academic, but also she's an artist. She received her PhD in media and communications from Gosmas University of London last year. She is also an independent visual artist and was trained in photography at Central Saint Martins University of the Arts London. She is now an Associate Professor in the Department of Information and Communication at Dian Dian University. Her research focuses on contemporary Taiwan cinema, Hong Kong cinema, East Asian screen media and visual cultures. Since her graduation, she's quite productive. She has already contributed several chapters in academic books, including two new books published this year, Concentric, Literary and Cultural Studies, that's one. Another is Sport, Film and National Culture, both published by Rowlett this year. The other one is in positioning Taiwan in a global context being and becoming. That's last year by Rowlett as well. Before we formally start the talk, I would like to thank our funder and collaborators, the Ministry of Culture Taiwan, the Cultural Division at the TRO Taipei Representative Office in the UK and also the Taiwan Film Institute for their support. Without their generous funding and continuous backing, it would not have been possible to launch such an ambitious project. So please be aware before we formally start the session, this is recorded. I would appreciate that you turn off your audio and video functions during the talk to enhance the quality of the session. You're also welcome to post your questions in the chat column, but I presume you should start posting your question probably 20 minutes into the talk. You know the chat column is actually on the top, there will be a squary icon you can post your chat. Could you make sure that you post only one at a time and keep them succinct? Our assistant curator, Shaoyi, will collate them and present them to the speaker. So may I just ask you to temporarily switch on your microphone and put your hands together to welcome Dr. Lin Ting Yin. Welcome Ting Yin. Yeah, good afternoon everyone in the UK and good evening everyone in maybe Taipei. I saw some friends from Tokyo as well and Hong Kong as well. And yeah, I'm Ting Yin Lin and I'm so glad to be here. And I'm from the Department of Information and Communication and Dianjiang, Tangkang University, Taiwan. And first of all, I would like to say thank you to the Center of Taiwan Studies for inviting me back to the Taiwan Post New Wave Cinema series, which I'm also very excited about. And yeah, so I'm going to show you my slides firstly. Okay, so the title of my talk today is New Authors in Taiwan Post New Wave Cinema, Ho Ji Ran, Lin Shu Yu and Zheng You Jie. And in the following sections, I'm going to focus on the three directors from Taiwan's new generation filmmakers and to examine their individual styles, filmic themes and filmmaking trajectories while trying to position the significance of these three new authors in the Taiwan Post New Wave Cinema. Okay, so at the very beginning, I'd like to raise the question to initiate this talk. Why do we need to locate new authors in the Taiwan Post New Wave Cinema? By answering this question, I would also like to explain the aim of this talk and also the rationale of the research. Since we all know that Taiwan Cinema has long been renowned for its new wave, the so-called Taiwan New Cinema in the 1980s, and also the second wave. Let us help you. Your shared slide has disappeared. Oh, really? Okay, so now you cannot see my slides now. Okay, so maybe once again. Can you see? Yes. Okay, great. Thank you. So, I think the environment, there might be some problems. Yes. Okay, so how you can see the page, okay, the slides of the authorship paradigm here. Great. So, and also the second wave in the 1990s, which have marked the rise of authorship paradigm focusing on the art house authors, such as, oh, we know that, 侯孝贤, Edward Yang, Yang Dechang, Anne Lee, and Cai Mingliang. And, um, famous scholars Emily Yeyue Yu and Dara Willam-Debbas pointed out that it is the foresee an authorship that Taiwan Cinema has been positioned in world cinema studies and gain enormous popularity in global film circuits. Quote, we argue that precisely because of authorship, Taiwan Cinema remains alive and energetic, especially in the context of world cinema, constituting an alternative form of popularity as seen in various international circuits. Quote ends. On the other hand, as Professor Song Huilin also points out, these Taiwan new cinema directors and their works can be seen as a form of soap power that has built up Taiwan's cultural and diplomatic images in the global realm. So from these points of the above mentioned from scholars, we can see that the authorship and author studies have played a very significant role for Taiwan Cinema. However, it should be noted that Taiwan Cinema in the 1990s and early 2000s has encountered a downturn in the box office. Until 2008, it is a crucial year of the release of Wei Doshan's pioneering film, Cake No. 7, 海角七号. This film has triggered the revival of Taiwan Cinema with its enormous box office success and aroused huge popularity among the local audience while also marking the coming of the new age of contemporary Taiwan Cinema. And the new period of Taiwan Cinema is generally called the Taiwan Post Web Cinema Taiwan Post Tang Chaoying. It is commonly considered to have started in 2008 with Wei Doshan's Cake No. 7, 海角七号. We will take on with other subsequent popular films such as 凌淑雨's Winds of September 浙江風, which I will talk about later, as well as 楊雅哲's O.R. Z Boys 中南海. Following the commercial success of these popular films made by the new generation Taiwanese filmmakers in 2008, the era of the Taiwan Post-New Wave Cinema has arrived. And it should be noted that the advent of the Post-New Wave has also led to the continuation of authorship studies or author studies. A lot of scholarly literature focuses on Hou Xiaoxian and Cai Mingliang's work in recent years. For example, many scholarly literature focuses on Hou Xiaoxian's Assassin 司科念營陽, and Cai Mingliang's Dredog 焦油, and maybe his latest Your Face in 2008, as well as other short films and artworks, and maybe also subsequently his latest film 《日子》 of this year. However, considering the non-Taiwan New Cinema Directors, other than Hou Xiaoxian and Cai Mingliang in contemporary Taiwan cinema, only Wei De-shun and Midi Z, you can see from the left one, Zhao Deying, have rather received attention in the international scholarly literature and global film festivals so far. To be specific, for example, the scholarly collection Taiwan Cinema, International Reception and Social Change, edited by Professor Chou Guifen and Min Ye Rosli and Gary Rosli, is a great example for the Taiwan Post-New Wave Cinema and Wei De-shun studies. There have been some other academic publications as well on the Taiwan Post-New Wave Cinema and Wei De-shun. On the other hand, we can see many international scholarly works and global film studies, film festivals have started to pay attention to Midi Z, Zhao Deying, and our house firm is Taiwanese director, who centers on his experience of diaspora and migration in his works. And there have been some researches and journal articles on Midi Z's works that have come out, as you can see on the slides. For example, like Professor Lin Xiong-Hui's tour of cinema, Utbiticus, Trafficking and Poverty as problematic in Midi Z's films, which is included in transnational cinemas. And also Melissa Melling Chan's Male Order Brides and Methodist and Phen Tamins, are signed for business in Midi Z's Burma trilogy, included in concentric literary and cultural studies. And also Luke Robinson's Midi Z network aesthetics from below and cultural politics of Taiwanese imperialism, which is included in the screen. But so far, we can only see Wadersen and Midi Z have rather received the international attention, either in the scholarly works or in the film festivals. In order to build up the entire picture of the development of contemporary Taiwan cinema, we still need to explore more authors in the post-New Wave. And therefore, considering this research gap, this talk aims to investigate those under-examined new authors in the Taiwan post-New Wave cinema, while particularly focusing on three directors from the new generation Taiwanese filmmakers, which are Hou Ji Ran, Lin Shuyu and Zheng Youjie. So in the following sections, firstly, I'm going to focus on these three new authors, early engagement, common engagement in youth romance genre in Taiwan post-New Wave cinema. And furthermore, I'm going to compare and contrast their individual styles, their phemic language they use, and their cinematic aesthetics. In the second part of the talk, I'm going to examine their phemic themes and filmmaking trajectories, while also investigating the differences in their individual characteristics and significances in fiction and non-fiction filmmaking, also the social-political concerns and international co-productions, respectively. Okay, so finally, the concluding remarks part. Okay, so now I'm going to move to the part one, their early common engagement in youth romance genre, differing phemic styles and cinematic aesthetics. So Hou Ji Ran, Lin Shuyu and Zheng Youjie have presented their first short film around the millennium, and they made their feature length debut or their second feature length films around 2008. To be specific, as you can see here, Lin Shuyu's first feature film, was released in 2008, and Zheng Youjie's second film, Yang Yang, was released in 2009, and Hou Ji Ran's debut, One Day You Yi Tian, was released in 2010. In other words, we can see that the time of their debut or their second feature film of these three directors, approximately corresponds to the year of the rise of the Taiwan Post-New Wave Cinema. And furthermore, the other aspect I would like to point out is Ji Ran. It is crucial to note that Taiwan Post-New Wave Cinema has opened up a new path of genre cinema and commercial films in Taiwan, and there is a clear trend of genre-driven and commercial-oriented film production and consumption in the post-2008 Taiwan Cinema, which can be broken down into the following categories, as you can see on the slides. For example, such as local comedies, history films and epics, romance and teen romance, triad and cop films, harrows and thrillers, and so on. And among these genres, the one I would like to focus on is the Youth Romance Genre, or the Teen Romance Genre. And according to Lu Xiao Laoshi, Taiwanese film scholar, Lu Xiao, Robert Chen, Apart from the previous films of Taiwan New Cinema that address national and historical trauma in the Taiwan New Cinema director's works, such as Hou Xiaoxian's A City of Sadness, Fei Ting Chen's Shi, or Edward Yang's A Brighter Summer Day, Gu Ling Jie's Sha Nian Sha Ren's Shi Jian, there is another side to approach Taiwan cinema as a cinema working out of sadness. That is, a genre of youth romance films. For instance, Yi Zhi Yan's Blue Gate Crossing, Lan Xiu Da Men, can be seen as the full-rounder of this genre in Taiwan cinema of the 21st century. And later on, as mentioned in the above, Lin Shuyu's first feature film, Winds of September, was released in 2008, and Zhen Youjie's second film, Yang Yang, was released in 2009, and Hou Jiren's debut one day was released in 2010. And these three films can be generally categorized as Youth Romance Genre films, and these three films have been exactly released in between the success of Cape No. 7 in 2008. And also, the subsequent box office hit, Gui Deng's quote, 九八刀, you are the apple of my eye. 那些年我们一起追的女孩 in 2011, which can be seen as another representative example for the youth romance genre in the Taiwan Post-New Web Cinema. And we can say that the youth romance genre can be seen as one of the significant genres and even a trend that has been very popular and predominant during the first few years of the Taiwan Post-New Wave. And it is interesting to see that there is a certain kind of similarity of these three directors due to their early common engagement in the youth romance genre. That is to say, when it comes to the themes in their early works, Lin Shuyu's Winds of September is about the friendship and the love among a group of high school students. And Zhen Youjie's Yang Yang is about a girl who is French Taiwanese mixed and her story about love and self-identity. And Hou Chi Ran's One Day is about the love, dream and fate of a young couple. As mentioned in the above, all of these three films can be generally categorized under the youth romance genre on the one hand. On the other hand, despite their early common engagement in such kind of youth romance genre, we can still see their differing cinematic styles and aesthetics in these three works. So in the following section, I'm going to use these three films as key studies to compare and contrast the differing cinematic styles and aesthetics of these three Taiwanese directors. So firstly, Winds of September, Zhou Jiangfeng, can be seen as a common age film telling a story about a group of high school students in Xinzhu in the 1990s Taiwan. It also portrays their friendship and passion in baseball games as well as their conflicts and this illusion of what the future holds alongside their growth and maturity. In this film, we can see director Lin Shuyu employs a kind of universal film language with solid narrative structure as well as the dramatic elements to illustrate the conflicts between the characters. So in the following clip, we can see the dramatic moments in the conflicts between the characters. So from this clip, we can see director Lin Shuyu is very good at using such kind of dramatic elements to create a kind of tension in the story and he also creates very obvious plotline and solid narrative structure. We can also see a very clear three-act structure in Winds of September that is the setup, confrontation and resolution. And we will talk a bit about Lin Shuyu's universal cinematic style and film language later. And on the other hand, Zheng Youjie's Yang Yang can be seen as a female communist age story that focuses on the French-Taiwanese mixed Yang Yang. The following clip is the very last shot of this film which is depicting a sequence in which the protagonist is constantly running. And this long shot captures her perseverance and insistence of being a runner and this sequence can also symbolize the process of her self-recognition and self-identification. So let's see this clip in Yang Yang, which is about a bit long, about three minutes long, but this is a one shot, so which is a, I think, another amazing shot in Yang Yang. It should be noted that as for cinematography, director Zheng Youjie chose to use a handheld camera to shoot the sequence and he is very good at using handheld camera to create a very close but very flexible distance between the camera and the characters. And this can be seen as his signature style of close humanistic observation. He continues to use the handheld camera in his latest work, Dear Tenants, 亲爱的反客, of this year. And this has also successfully created a kind of close but gently humanistic observation. In contrast, 亲爱的反客, Youjie, is the most stylistic one among these three youth romance films. As we talked about last week in the Q&A session with director Ho, the surreal elements are very unique and the visual style is very poetic in one day, which can be compared to other contemporary films from the Taiwan post-new wave cinema. In the following clip, we can see the very poetic and unique visual style of director Ho, and also how he created such a dream world and there's a realistic elements in this film. So I'm going to show you the first clip in one day. So the first clip is about a dream in which the protagonist meets an Indian guy on the vessel. We can see the cinematography is very unique here and the camera movement is smoothly flowing, just like the characters flows of consciousness in the dream world. Now I'm going to show you the second one, second clip in one day. So the second clip in one day is located nearly on the ending of the film, which shows the tragedy and the fate between this young couple. As mentioned by the director Ho Ji Ran himself last week, he particularly used a shallow focus shot to create such kind of uncertainty in the film. And this can also refer to the segmented memories of the characters in the dream. It should be noted that it is such kind of the surrealistic, poetic and beautiful visual style that made him as a unique alter in the Taiwan post-new wave cinema. So now I'm going to move to the part two. I'm going to talk about the differences in filmmaking trajectories and their individual significance to Taiwan post-new wave cinema, which are our fiction and non-fiction filmmaking, sociopolitical concerns and international co-production. Firstly, I'd like to start from director Ho Ji Ran. We know that Ho is a talented multidisciplinary director who has been focusing on both fiction and non-fiction filmmaking. As for his fiction filmmaking, he has created surrealistic cinematic worlds such as One Day,有一天, as we just saw in the clips. And also his second feature left film when the wolf falls in love with a sheep, Nan Fang Xiao Yang Mu Chang. And this one is also with very unique and dream-like visual styles, which can be seen as his personal signature cinematic style that made him as an alter in Taiwan cinema. Considering his non-fiction filmmaking, he has examined and covered various important issues in Taiwan's post-war cultural histories via his documentaries. For example, his documentary, Taiwan Black Movies, Taiwan Hei Ding Yin, in 2005, exposed the social realist crime films in the early 1980s. And this documentary is still very important to Taiwan's cinema studies. His next documentary, O2 Time, 40 Nian, examines the Taiwanese campus folk songs movement, Mingo Yundong, led by a group of local singers in the 1970s, which also explores the complex identity politics and the relations between Taiwan and China. His later documentary, Panana, explores the life story of Gao Zhihua, the daughter of Gao Yishan, a political prisoner during the period of White Tarot, and her life as a legendary singer in a paying club. Via his non-fiction filmmaking, we can see director Hou Jiren has visually rewritten alternative Taiwan cultural histories from various angles, which is equally important to Taiwan's cinema as his works of fiction filmmaking. Secondly, I would like to talk about Zheng Youjie. When we are looking at his filmmaking trajectories, we can see that he has examined and reflected on various significant social issues in his works. For example, his My Little Honeymoon, Ye Lianxiang, focuses on the migrant-bride issue. And Wawa no Sidao, Taiyang's child, underrides to the indigenous group. In his television series, Days We Start at the Sun, they are on the political and social movements. And his latest work, Dear Tenant, 亲爱的房客, on the issue of same-sex marriage and the LGBTQ rights. It should be noted that director Zheng Youjie constantly employs cinema as a medium to reflect on contemporary Taiwanese society, and also to make the audience pay attention to these various social issues, by his very touching narratives and humanistic observation, and it is his sociopolitical concerns that made him as an auditor in Taiwan posting a web cinema. Finally, I would like to talk about Lin Shuyu. He has a very unique background with Western film school training. He received his film MFA from California Institute of the Arts. This background can be linked to his filmic style that can cross the national and cultural boundaries. And this can correspond to his later works in transnational filmmaking. After his award-winning short film, Dabiu, the Pan of Others, Haishun Jianbin, he successfully created his alter-styles with his universal film language in his subsequent feature films, such as Winds of September, Zhou Jiangfeng, Starry Starry Nights, Xin Kong, and Senior Flower by Rui Gaobie. And also his latest international-produced film, The Garden of Evening Mist, 戏物花园 of last year. Starry Starry Nights, Xin Kong, is his first attempt in international co-production with the Chinese founding company and talents. In his latest film, The Garden of Evening Mist, which was nominated as one of the best films in the Golden Horse Film Award last year, he has participated in a global co-produced project. To be specific, this film is produced by HBO Asia and a Malaysian production company, Astro Show. Lin Shuyu also worked with an international team composed of Malaysian, Japanese, Taiwanese, British, and Singaporean talents in the production process of The Garden of Evening Mist, such as the famous Japanese actor Hiroshi Abe and Malaysian actress Li Xinjie. It should be noted that Lin Shuyu's latest film, The Garden of Evening Mist, has opened up a whole new chapter for Taiwan cinema for three layers of research. Firstly, we are happy to see such an alter from the new generation of Taiwanese directors who has established his filmic style and has been vigorously engaged in transnational filmmaking. Hopefully, his experience in transnational filmmaking can bring about more possibilities for Taiwan cinema now. Secondly, collaborating with the global production companies and streaming media platforms such as HBO Asia or Netflix, for example, can effectively enhance the visibility of Taiwan's filmic and television productions. And this is another whole new chapter of international co-production and global distribution for Taiwan cinema. And finally, considering the language, multiple languages such as English, Japanese, and Malaysian languages are used in The Garden of Evening Mist. And this is a good opportunity for us to reconsider Taiwan cinema. Should Taiwan cinema be necessarily situated under the Chinese-language cinema huayu-dian-ing framework, or sign-in from cinema huayu-uxi-dian-ing framework? This question could be opened here, and there might be some debates in the field, I think. And at least from my observation, these are the three aspects that Lin Shuyu's latest work has brought to Taiwan cinema now, which are on the transnational filmmaking experiences, global co-production and distribution, and also the reconsideration on the Chinese-language cinema framework and the sign-in from cinema framework. So concluding remarks. To conclude, these three directors have marked three different routes in the Taiwan Post-New Wave Cinema. That is, Hou Jiren with his poetic cinematic style in fiction filmmaking and his achievement in rewriting Taiwan's cultural histories by his non-fiction filmmaking. Shen Youjie with his humanistic observation and his sociopolitical concerns on contemporary Taiwanese society and identities. And Lin Shuyu with his universal film language and his brilliant experiences in transnational filmmaking. Finally, this research has to provide an initial discussion on these three new atorists. While hoping to open up more dynamic dialogues in between Taiwan's rigorous film cultures and contemporary Taiwanese society, and further to raise the international visibility of the new auteurs in the Taiwan Post-New Wave Cinema. Furthermore, there are some more directors that we can focus on in the future, such as Zhou Menghong, Yang Yazhe, Xiao Yaquan, as well as female directors such as Zero Zhou, Zhou Meiling, and Xin Chen, Chen Xinyi, and others. In the end, this research also helps to build up a new discourse for the research on the Taiwan Post-New Wave Cinema and the new auteurs. While also hoping to see how the works of these new auteurs could work as a new form or a new force of Taiwan's soap power, either by international film festivals or global streaming platforms, which can shape a whole new national brand for Taiwan in the field of cultural diplomacy and also world cinema studies. So yeah, that's the end of my presentation. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. It's so comprehensive. I'm really grateful for being so accommodating when we talk about this particular project. It's so amazing. Just come up with something really comprehensive. It's really great to start off this particular series. Thank you very much. Before I open the floor, of course, I have to say I got the privilege to ask the first questions, of course, as usual. So I actually prepared some questions because you all answered them. So I have to come up with some new ones. So I would like to ask you, because you mentioned about Cape Number 7 as a turning point. Then you also mentioned about Cape Number 7 really act as a turning point, overturning the once lousy box office returns for so-called Taiwanese films. So do you suggest that the new generation directors actually have enjoyed a much better box office return and success and the support of the audience as a general phenomena because it's very different from the so-called new wave. They were actually criticized for being difficult to understand all that business. And the second question really is about, I'm asking your opinion based on your research on contemporary Taiwanese cinema, as well as the East Asian visual arts. Can you see any similarity in Hong Kong cinema or in East Asia cinema? Because this is kind of a very different way of presenting the new generation of young people in East Asia. Two questions. Thank you. Hold on. Let me spotlight you. Okay, thank you. Yes. There's a few questions. Hello, director Ho. Hello. Thank you for joining us. So maybe the first question could be answered by director Ho as well because he himself is in the industry. Okay. Yes. Maybe you should go first. Okay. I think yes, because we can see there are several blockbusters happen after 2008. But I'm sure that maybe director Ho has kind of the industry point of view can tell us some more stories about that. But I have to add one thing because because of this year is a kind of the year influenced by COVID-19. And the Hollywood blockbusters cannot produce that much. So Taiwan cinema this year could be a better year than other years because the local audience could choose Taiwan local produced firm rather than other like American blockbusters or something. So far we can see the performance of the box office of Guo Pian local produced firms now is quite good so far. And the second thing I think is the similarity I think that that could be linked to the because in Taiwan our industry is still quite small. But I think our government they take some they try to learn the lesson from for example South Korea South Korea they build a really solid national cinema brand and even distributed and very popular around the globe. So I think our government they're trying very hard to make some kind of the like they established one so you're a kind of the government institution to. Forge in the market of Taiwanese film and television productions in the global realm and to let Taiwan's like it. Enhance trying to enhance the visibility of Taiwan films like the really predominant South Korean films in the global cinema. So I think we're still growing although it's a bit a bit far but we're still yeah. Yeah pay the effort now so so maybe director whole would you like to answer a bit your insights from the industry do you think at the time in the post 2000 way to be better than the previous time. Yeah. And, and, and just, and just to be audience here. And as your question I think the, the 2000 wave. It's just a process of that particular time. And I think the filmmaker and the society environment. Just reflect the Taiwan people's mind in that very particular time so I don't, I won't say it will be the better or worse or something but it just for that particular time. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thanks. So maybe we can ask a show you to come in to raise some questions show you. And yeah I think so the next question is from David so maybe I'll just if he doesn't mind I'll just ask this question. I'm so David is asking if thinking could comment on how supportive the government is towards this new generation of filmmakers. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Again, because my view would be not really, you know, really comprehensive enough. So maybe if director whole you want to say something as some more points. I've heard that some some filmmakers in the industry they say that the government does not really that they're not really supportive even though they have different policies. And different, you know, like, because Taiwan, the industry of Taiwan cinema or the audience of the local cinema, they're still tend to be, you know, attracted by the American firms or maybe right now Japanese firms, or anime animation film now. Maybe you know the way we need to do something. So Taiwan, Taiwan's local film is confronting lots of competitors right now. So I think the government should set some more solid policies maybe like a in in in South Korea from South Korea's experiences like a group in pay or to do something like that. Yeah. But it's kind of a there's some debate in the field and you can you can see there are different camps they they say the government should protect the local film more. But the other can say that we should let the audience choose what they want. So that's the current debate between the the ratio of the local firms in the theaters now. So I think there are still some more problems or something that we can improve. As for all the policies of the government to support the different makers. Okay, so maybe, maybe if director Holly wants to say something about the policies things or something you can add. Well, I think in Taiwan's situation, because the Taiwan was entered the WTO in the early 90s. And at that time, Taiwan, Taiwan government already give up the film local film. Protected protection in that in that very early time in the very beginning in the WTO time so I think it already set up a very clear and the firm structure of Taiwan's film industry. So, after that, Taiwan government tried to provide financial support to the local film making, but the whole market is already wire open for all country, especially Hollywood film is is already here and that no limited with with no limited. So, so I think so that maybe is the, the stretcher structure is already set up. So, I think it's time. So I think now, in the, in the 2000, or the late 1990s, the, the Taiwan in film industry is very weak. And I think for the time now or after 2010, I think it is because there are still certain need in the Taiwan audience to they want to see their own language film. So that and the, the, this kind of Taiwan film is talk about the Taiwan identity, especially like the 2000. I think 2007練習去, and then the hijachi how kept number seven, and all this film is about Taiwan, Taiwan land market. Taiwan few or Taiwan people Taiwan local story and that is not how they will film can say. So, so I think for now, there are still some Taiwan film industry can survive this because this local need. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Would you like to come back. Yeah, I'm here. Okay. So you would you like to follow up. Yeah. Just just seeing if teaming has anything to add to the question. If not, I think the next question is from our audience. So, one is asking, has there been any musicals in the recent past from Taiwan. Yeah, there is some musicals. There were some musicals. For example, After he finished his city ballet, his famous epic film, and he was doing a project called a 52 Hertz. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 52 Hertz. Just, there is a musical, which is about the love in the urban scenario and ever so setting. And I still remember that director Wei Desheng brought that film to London in 2017 or so 17 or so. Yeah, that's a little piece of musical that was very different from his previous work, which we're talking about the Taiwan's national histories or Taiwanese identities or colonial histories or so. So that one is quite different from his previous work. And what else musicals. Yeah. Yeah, you can go first. No, I wonder whether you will catarise Cai Mingliang's whole, the whole musical. Okay, yeah. I think Cai director, yeah, yeah, he put, he loves like all songs and like a really nostalgic musical elements. So he loves that so much and he himself loves to sing that old song so something like that in like a private sector or public sector. So I think he added that kind of the musical sessions in his work to make some contrast between the isolated characters and also the very hilarious musical session. So we can see Xiao Kang and in contrast with Yang Wen's musical, beautiful debut or something like that. So I think Cai Mingliang's case is quite unique because his musical elements is still belongs to the category of our house because that he's like a creative creative art to put that musical into his work. And, but I think for the works for the general public, maybe there's some more possibilities for Taiwanese filmmakers to create more musicals like for the general one. Like these 15 hours, I love you quite contemporary and quite urban. And maybe I heard that they, that is a real musical but not in the film, which is talk about the Taiwanese, Taiwanese film industry, Taiwanese language cinema industry before. That is called Taiwan Yuge Hao, Taiwan Yuge Hao Lai Wu, that is a musical in the theater. It's inspired by Taiwan's previous Tai Yu film industry. Yeah, so that's the, yeah, so far I could think of. Thank you. Thank you. So our next question is from our audience, Jessica. So thank you for your wonderful talk. At the beginning, you mentioned that there's a research gap in Taiwan post new wave cinema with only a few exceptions like me DZ and waiters and so what are the possible factors for the under examination of post new wave authors. What does it have to do with the over saturation of youth romance genre to a certain extent or the increasingly blurred line between art house and commercial tendencies. Thank you. Yeah, I think, I think yes. You can see that way the sense case and maybe these cases are quite different and really even we can say opposing to cases because one way the sense is really for the public and maybe Z is really for the house audience. And we can see that I think, I think yes, because in the post new wave Taiwan cinema, we can see that the different makers they try to mix the genres and also mix their like a like artistic styles or aesthetics into the different genres. And that kind of deep bloodline between our house or commercial tendencies may may not that I'm not sure if I'm right but I think for like a the audiences on the movie, you know the our house global streaming platform. So they prefer really house things like a really authentic. I'm not sure but like, they really like experimental or kind of the, kind of the real listen thing or kind of the, they really love Taiwan new cinema, like a host of long shot or something like that, and they prefer me DZ and, and they even really love me DZ a lot. And I think, in contrast with way the sun, because way the sense status in Taiwan cinema is, is like, we know he kind of the re, we rise the history colonial history by his on several firms. So he's so important in Taiwan's on historiography things. So way the sense of popularity is not because of his is his aesthetics, but his significance in Taiwan's I don't know academia or cultural histories or something like that. So the scholars focuses on way the sun, because of his ambition of ambitions to rewrite history. Okay, so I think that's a very different thing for me DZ and way the sun. Um, so you can see here. So this I, the house audience, they prefer the very house directors like being easy and, and wait a second, it's not on the house platform. So you can see the global audience, they turn to a very, very, a very, I don't know, specific form for the, the directors who attend to cans Berlin thing festivals or Venice thing festivals or something like that. So I think that's the the phenomenon right now. So maybe what we can do now is to try to promote or to raise the visibility of these unseen directors to the global audience, and maybe as a firm scholars for me and IQ, IQ, I will try my best to write some more pieces of writing or articles on the unseen directors of the post new wave cinema. And I think maybe I think the, I think this project is particularly for to promote this these group of, yeah, unseen directors. So I think, um, yeah, I'm, I'm still very positive toward the future of Taiwan post new wave cinema and I hope on the global audience would see these group of very precious and, yeah, and very good on Taiwanese filmmakers. Okay. Thank you. Great. Thank you. I think so. Jessica just now also commented on like a prominence of youth romance genre, which you've also talked about. So I guess this is also my own question for you. You don't mind. So, um, why do you think all three care, all three directors or, or I think not just these three directors. Why do you think they, they tend to focus on the youth romance genre as as a pet? Okay. Thank you. So, yeah, I think, um, maybe, maybe later on after my answer, maybe director or you can answer your own version. Yeah. And I think that that is because, because I quite agree with Wu Zhou, the professor, he's worse on the kind of cinema looking out of sadness in the 21st century of Taiwan cinema. And at that time, after on the 2002, we can see lots of on the films like a director who just mentioned Lian Xi Qu is about a young guy who cycles around Taiwan Island, something like that. And, and I think that the stories about the youth could catch the eyes of the local audience, especially the group like a in their around their 20s, they would pay for the ticket and to go into the theater to watch a local film. So I think after 2008, they, they, the filmmakers or the producers might might figure out that the local audience like kind of the, the scenario of a young teenagers love or young people's love. So they, um, they focus on that themes, particularly. So you can see a there's a consecutive release like a 2008 hai jiao qi hao and then 2009 2008 hai jiao qi hao and jiao jiang feng 2009 yang yang and 2010. The retos do itien and 2011 you are the apple of my eye. That is by guidance code. And also in 2015, there's another blockbusters talk is talks about the teen romance, which is called our times, what the song is that. And I think there's still some differences between these these jarra firms because you can see like a director whole and director in Shuyu and they have very personal artistic styles, even though they are dealing with that team romance jarra. But as for the other cases like you are the apple of my eye and our times, you can see that's a really commercial oriented firms. So even though they're in the same category, there are still different rules among them. So yeah. Okay. Okay. Thank you. So our next question is from audience. In recent years that Taiwan. Oh, so it's about youth romance films again. So in recent years, and these films have gained popularity also in other regions such as Hong Kong. It's probably part of the Wen Qing culture. So it's interesting that director whole has made Taiwanese black movies. Is there a legacy or continuation of this crime genre and sensational aesthetics among the new wave authors after 2010. Go ahead. Thank you. Okay. So I think they're saying the sequence would be a bit different because director Ho Ji-Yuan Ji-Yuan. Okay. Director Ho made Taiwan black movies that documentary in 2005. So that's that happened between the rise of the post new wave before before before 2008. So after 2008, I think I don't I don't think there is a direct I'm not sure I'm right, but please please add some more points from your own points. I don't think there is a direct link of the social real list crime film in the 1980s to the the the recent years of the crime genre, because I think the the recent years of crime genre would be influenced by the pan Asian productions like a Japanese of South Korea or Hong Kong contemporary crime firms like a, you know, Hong Kong directors like Johnny Toh or maybe South Korea directors there like there are so many directors are focusing on the crime genre. And I think the the young generation of Taiwanese filmmakers they are highly influenced by the the the popular culture transmitted in between on East Asia. So they are really they like the Japanese Haros and also the Hong Kong crime film, child films and South Korea films or something like that. So I think that that's the reason of their tendency to make kind of the crime genre or cop or tried genre after 2008 or after 2010. So I don't think there is a link between the social real list and frame of 1980s and the nowadays phenomenon of the crime firms. Okay, so maybe others you do have different point of view you can just add in. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Um, so do you think I think I'm just probably adding to audience's point about the rise of this kind of romance youth romance films in in, for example, Hong Kong. Do you also think do you think there's a correlation of influence between between this this kind of trend. Okay, so to correlation between what and what. Oh, sorry. I'm sorry, I should make it clear. So, um, so I think our audience mentioned that there's also a rise of this kind of youth romance films in Hong Kong. Yeah, do you think do you think there's some kind of influence. Okay, okay. Oh, thank you. I still remember that last last week when director whole talk about the element of Shaoqing Xing. Yeah, yeah, so last week, we talked about that things. So I think when we do have kind of the youth romance genre, which was started exactly from 2008, 2002, and that kind of the, the trend of Shaoqing Xing or Wenxin kind of the distributed to to Hong Kong and maybe other other areas or something. Yeah, so I think there should be some influence because, for example, because I'm also doing kind of contemporary Hong Kong cinema studies. And there is another, there's a very latest film called Huan Ai. I don't know if you are, you have heard about that Huan Ai. Okay, that film, and you can see the, the visual styles or the cinematography or something, which is quite kind of the. I'm not sure if the director agree it or not, but kind of the, you can compare that with Taiwan's youth romance films or Shaoqing Xing films or something. Yeah, and also, na yi tian wu me hui fei, there's another film in contemporary Hong Kong cinema about kind of the youth romance things. So I think it could be compared. Yeah. And I don't, I don't want to be to say, oh, that work is definitely influenced by Taiwanese filmmakers or something. I'm not, I don't want to say that, but you can see there's some similarity in the visual elements or the similarities in the, the, the cinematography styles or something like that. Okay, thank you. I think we have one more question from Kevan. So do you think it is common for Taiwanese films to go in into partnership with with Chinese company to make a movie. I suppose that means cross. So those kind of collaboration films. Okay. So, actually, Taiwanese filmmakers have tried that model before, particularly in during I think 2011, 12 and 13. There's several firms come coming out during that, that these years, for example, we see the starry starry night, which is co-produced with a Chinese production company. And also in 2012, we do have a term called love, I, and that's a co-production film as well. And in 2013, if I remember it right, it's 健忘村 by director Chen Yuxun, which is another co-produced film. But after that trend, because I think that's a, the trend of the, I don't know, collaborative economic network with Chinese companies because of the policy of the government of that time during, you know, the 2011 to 2014 or something like that. And at that time, you can see lots of Taiwanese filmmakers have involved into that model. But however, you can see the effect on some of the firms has very good box office results like a love in China or in Hong Kong and other places. But like a 健忘村, it doesn't make a very good result either in Taiwan or in China. So some critics might say that that's because Taiwanese directors does not really know what the Chinese market wants. So they even think that Taiwanese directors are more good at focusing on local stories. For example, Chen Yuxun's latest work, 消失的情人, some critics say that it's much better than his previous 健忘村. So you can see there's a kind of the Taiwanese filmmakers have tried before the results. This is not really good as they expected. Yeah. So that's the situation right now. Okay. Thank you. Okay, thank you. I guess the next question is actually my own question. So I think, yeah, my question is also actually inspired by by one of the audience's question. So I think after and actually this is one of the things we observed when we were working on this project. I think there's probably still a kind of I think I'm not sure if this is a result of the Taiwan New Wave Cinema, but I think there's still a very strong sense of detachment or bifurcation between art house and commercial cinema. So people who who are very altruistic or very with a very strong personal style continue to embark on that path of being an attuer. But meanwhile commercial cinema of course is also on the rise. Do you think that do you think that that is inappropriate understanding of the situation now? Yeah, I think I think you're right. I think there are so many different routes that the post new wave. So some filmmakers are engaging into the very commercial oriented firms and some of them are trying to go for the International Film Festival or other I know the platform to make the global audience to see their works. And I think there's a trend of the artistic works from some young generation of directors, even much younger than like director whole and Ming Zhu Yu and Zhen You Jie. And they're around their 30s and even younger than me. And they have a really good artistic background. They have trained in French film school before, and they have a very good quality of short films so far. They have their feature length film but they do have their short films work so far. And these short films have gained lots of art house awards in the short film festivals. So I think that's another route of the young filmmakers are now doing. And I'm personally very looking forward to their feature length film. I think they could create another outhouse scenario for the new, the young generation of the Taiwanese authors in the future. Okay. Do you mean that this is also different from the old trend of art house cinema? How are they different? Okay. Because you can see there's a work called 去年火車經過的時候. This film has gained the biggest prize from the Taipei Film Festival of last year. If I remember it right. Okay. So that director has been trained in French and his technique is quite artistic and quite personal, which is very, very different from the generation of director whole and Zhen You Jie and Ming Zhu Yu. So you can check it out and you can see that director, he combines a kind of the film camera and kind of the 3D technique and also the local stories altogether. So yeah, that's a really good instance for us to look at the other even younger group of the Taiwanese artistic filmmakers. Yeah. Great. Thank you. So our next question is from our audience, Thomas Kunlip. Thomas Kunlip. So he's asking if commercial Taiwan films do not get distributed too much in mainland China. Do filmmakers or producers try to appeal to other export markets in Asia? Or can Taiwan films survive by just appealing to Taiwan market? Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Tom, for your question. And yeah, now I think that question could relate to one of my points in the transnational filmmaking part. Because nowadays we can see there's a trend of the Taiwanese film production or television production groups or teams or crew members. They start to working with Netflix and also the HBO Asia. So they don't really want to limit it themselves within Taiwan or maybe China. Yeah. Maybe they don't just want to limit themselves. So they use the kind of the global streaming media quite well. They work with them. They are also the founding company and production company. And these kind of the global streaming platform and do the global distribution. Taiwanese films and also the television productions could export to other countries or even regions like in Malaysia, Singapore and even, I don't know, I've heard that some of the Taiwanese television productions can be seen in South America as well. So now I think Taiwanese films could shoot. We want to survive not only within by the local market, but also by the global film market, by the very good current methods, the global streaming platforms. Thank you. Thank you. This is just a follow up question. I'm wondering if you know what is the second largest market for Taiwan films after Taiwan itself? Do you have any? Okay. I think it's, I think it's Hong Kong, Malaysia and Singapore all together. Yeah. Some of the cases are China might be a good market, but just limited to a few cases like you are the apple of my eye and also the our times and maybe love. So very a few, but mostly I think the second largest market for Taiwanese film other than local market, I think it's Hong Kong. You can see lots of Taiwanese film in Hong Kong. They do have a good performance of box office results and also Singapore and Malaysia. Yeah. And I just saw there's a comments from one of our Kevon say in Thailand. Yeah, maybe Thailand can see Taiwan's TV production as well. Yeah. And in Malaysia, the cinema to swap with Bolivia. Okay. Thank you for the comments here. I think some of the audience in Malaysia because some of my students, they are from Malaysia. They told me that they do watch Taiwanese films and do watch Taiwanese television episodes in Malaysia because they speak Chinese and they know about the public culture of Taiwan. So I think it happened as well. Yeah. Oh, all right. Thank you. I'm wondering if Biyu or David has anything to add. No. I think if there's any more question, please raise your hand. You probably can make use of this gap that otherwise we will wrap it up. Oh, I think actually Max has a question, but because he's behind the scene now. So I'll ask on his behalf. Please do. Okay. So I'm leading on from your response to Tom. Garden of Evening Mist seems to have all the features of an Oscar contender. Quality script that fits with language variety, quality cinematography, quality music and great international film publicity. Yeah. So, so this question is, is this an indication of Tony's post new wave cinemas distinctive character? Yeah. Okay. So I think that's not a distinctive character, but a unique case. But I would like to say more about the latest work Garden of Evening Mist. And you're right. That film has very good universal film language with beautiful cinematography, music, and even lots of different like visual styles and costumes. And even I think the actor and actress play very well in that film. And I think that's a really good example for the Taiwan cinema now to broaden our, I don't know, the scope of the film. The film making, like in South Korea or other largest on on film production countries. So I think are the garden of the Evening Mist could be a, I don't know, a role model or something for contemporary Taiwanese filmmakers to learn. And maybe someday we do have a very good film like a like phone dream house work, latest work at the South Korea one who just won the best firm of the Oscar. Okay. With, yeah, you know, very universal language and could trans, cross the borders of the different countries or different cultures or something like that. So I think, thank you, Max. You just remind us or remind me that the garden of the Evening Mist would be a peculiar but I think with with a very good potential to let different Taiwanese filmmakers to continue on. Thank you, Max. Fantastic conclusion. Thank you. Oh, no, no, may I ask you to put your hands together switch on your. Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. I saw so many the professors on my, like my, my PhD examiner. Professor Chris Berry. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, because I was in Zhengda before and I, I'm counting, I've ordered in usual. Hi. Fantastic. So now I'm going to switch off the recording so you can finally talk. Okay.