 I'm Jay Fidel. This is Stink Text 4 o'clock clock. And we're doing Community Matters with Earl Kava'a. Earl, it's so nice to meet you. You are a very interesting man. Can you say hello to the people? Aloha ya okawapau eho alohi mainei eke polokulama meke kahi kanaka ui o Jay Fidel. Reading through all of you and thank you for joining this program to look at the handsome man called Jay Fidel. Well, okay, Earl. It's nice to be in company with you. So, Earl, you're involved in Keiki Oka Aina. What is that? Tell us what it is and why you're involved. Well, Keiki Oka Aina began a long, long time ago. Well, it grew out of a program that Kamehameha started and ended. It was called the Traveling Preschool. And so... Did you say Kamehameha? The original? Kamehameha the king? Had a Kamehameha schools, had a program called the Traveling Preschool. Oh, okay, okay. And into areas where families, we have had difficulty getting their children to the institution and that program ended. And Momi Akana was in the program when it ended and she said I was devastated because I had two children and I didn't know what to do. And she was a single mom and you know what single moms? They struggle. And she decided that she was not going to accept this program, let this person die. And she started and today it's called Keiki Oka Aina to bring families together from where they are and to put institutions and classrooms in the community, working with families, strengthening families, teaching culture and education. And fabulous. And so what is your role or how do you play in all of that? Long story short, I did a TEDx talk some years ago and Momi Akana was one of the people in the audience and my topic was on board and stone in every home. And she liked the idea about board and stone in every home which means the teaching of the carving of board and stone. But what led me to do that is that I went back to Moloka to teach a point-pounding class and I had to take 18 boards and 12 stones from Honolulu to go to the island where everybody had boards and stones in their homes and there was none. And I came back wounded. And I said, the deterioration of the culture is spreading quickly. It's a pandemic, it is a problem. And so I started board and stone and Momi Akana likes the program because it deals with families. And so she courted me. And so now board and stone is housed at Kikiokaena. So board and stone is poi. Board and stone means the carving of poi boards and poi stones. And so it's a class. Do you organize it as a class or maybe a workshop? No, it's more than a workshop. It's a class, it's nine classes, the nine classes. And the classes are culturally based and we teach, it's about values, work values. It's about the importance of education. It's about the importance of parenting and it's important about that dad leads the families. And each week there is a different topic. But carving is the medium that allows me to have a conversation with families and individuals that I don't know. Now aside from actually, pounding the poi, making the poi with a board and stone. So you're conveying values. You're conveying values to these kids, these families. And I wanna know what values you are teaching them. What are you conveying to them in the context of your program? Well, making, so because these are not in my family, so the teaching is we are making poi boards to step back in time to learn the values and principles of preparing food from a cultural perspective. And what that means is that someone has to lead. So I am leading you dads. So next year you will teach your sons and your daughters how to do it and your brothers and sisters. So I teach the skills that go along with carving from safety, but also every strike has a name, every grain in the wood has a name. The colors of the stones have names. So I teach all of that. All of that is part of the education. And that the end result is to shape attitudes and behavior for lifelong learning and family cohesiveness. That's beautiful. And of course you need to know the detail, have to do it. You know, the elements of the board, the elements of the stone, the technique, but you know, you're also providing them with an environment that is family, an environment that teaches them about how to relate to each other, how to relate to the culture. It's so positive. And as you said before, it's kind of a lost start and you're preserving it. That's what I think. And these days it's so important. We have lost that. It's not just the native Hawaiian community. We, all of us have lost that, don't you think? Yeah. So it is not a workshop. And it is not any. Enrichment classes, because enrichment classes for me is entertaining the people in the audience. And I said, this is a class of commitment. And the first level of commitment is a spiritual one that they are required to write a pule, an anthem, a mele, a song about entering into the program. And I said, if you don't write it, take the next class. If you have difficulty, take the next. As opposed to saying, you're not in the class. So that's also skill in making people feel welcome rather than saying, you cannot take the class. I don't say that, but I say it in a different way. Maybe you're not ready. Next year there'll be another class, take the class next year, which is more palatable. It's also very important to have those kinds of skills to bring people in and draw people in rather than push people away. So how long do they study with you? And what do you expect they will carry away when they're done? I'll answer the question with a story. There was a father and he had three girls. And he has all of the physical physique that this is a man that when he says, do it, you do it. And I said to him, they said, I believe you are hard with your daughters verbally. And he said, I am. And I said, when your daughter dates a man, she's gonna look for one that's hard on her, just like you. He pulled back, he pulled back and his eyes were wide open. And he said, with the full letter word that does not spell aloha, I don't want that for my daughters. He changed his behavior that day. And all you had to do was point it out to him. I pointed out to him, but it's how I pointed out. So how I pointed out comes from my Western education and my cultural understanding. I have the ability to walk in both worlds very comfortably, but also explain it in Western, in English, steeped with principles and values of our ancestors. Yeah, they're your ancestors, but they're not my ancestors. I came to these shores in 1960, 65, Earl. That was before you were bar mitzvah. And that was at a time when, boy, everything was so friendly, people would take you into their homes. There was no racial barrier whatsoever. Native Hawaiian people were just as sweet as could be and they wanted to share with you. They wanted to tell you about their culture. They wanted you to be at their table. They wanted to eat with you and have a meal and spend the evening with them. And that has changed, Earl. Because at that point in time, there was a great thirst for information and knowledge and experience. There was a great thirst for that. And then we have always been, we have always been that way about people who are different. We want to know, who are these people and what are they like and what do they know? And that's very important. But we also have a way of how to embrace that from those who are not from here. That is lost. So we, Born and Stone, helps to reaffirm of what we were and what we need to be and where we will be in the future. And part of my role and for those who train with me is to be able to teach at that level. You know, I've been watching the Trump administration. I'm sure you have too. And these words keep repeating in my head. Are you ready? Go ahead. Sovereignty never looked so good. Sovereignty never looked good. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You have 101% of the Hawaiian saying, yes. There's a real Hawaiian saying. But you know, well. Exactly. You know, we have to get back to that. And that's what you're doing. Yeah. Well, some people, it's not about some. Some people are saying, I think it's time to take a apply for, except that's in Canada. My wife's doctor literally applied, applied to be a citizen in Canada. And he said, just in case. He's an MD. He said, just in case, if he had to, the country really, really, really plummets. Yeah. Well, and that risk is not over. And his papers could be of use to him going forward because you don't know what's gonna happen here. It's an uncertain future. I think that's clear. And so, you know, the study of native Hawaiian culture, the study of what you're doing, it's kind of an island in the storm, an island in the stream, you know, it has a constancy to it. And it gives people an anchor, you know, where they can attach, they can rely, they can find themselves, they can find something to hold onto, even in a very, you know, transitional time. So there's a really, there's a great benefit in what you're doing. And the question is, does it stick, Earl? Does it stick when they leave you, when they go out into the world, maybe they don't come back and see you? Does it stick? Yes, it does, it does stick, but it needs to be perpetuated again. But the basic core of the value that they need to inculcate in their attitude and behavior that is etched into their heads and hearts, that will change. Because it is there, they can always go back to it as opposed to not being there at all. Absolutely. So let me ask you about the, you know, I suppose it's an organization, Keikioka-Aina, is it a, how is it organized? Is Mome still running it? Mome Akana is the executive director and she has a, she's a board, she's a 501C3 non-non-profit. She is on most of the islands, I believe, and in Kalihi, in Waimanalo, in Kahuku, she's all over, she's all over on Oahu. And that's strengthening families, education, and perpetuation of Hawaiian culture. So I bring in the Hawaiian cultural piece to add to what she's doing. And, but it says, Bordenstone is only one of the classes that I do. I mean, I've done classes for dads to write songs for their, for their daughters. That's good. Yeah. And mothers to write songs for their sons. And the relationship, the relationship after, after nine classes, you can see the shift. You might say after nine classes, many of my, my, my, my, my professional friends say to me, Kava, what you do in 15 minutes takes me, takes me six months. A magic, it's a magic. And part of that magic is also skill, is to work out with knowledge. And knowledge is, is, is not white knowledge, black knowledge, blue knowledge. It is what it is, knowledge. And knowledge that is, that is spiritually grounded has a profound effect. So did you, did you study these things yourself or did you learn them in your own home? I'm talking about board and stone and I'm talking about music too. It's a way of life growing up. Yeah, I grew up on Mokai and then only eight families in the, eight families in the values. As long as the sun was up, you work. And, and if dad, and if dad is still standing after 10 hours of working, he said, you better be standing alongside of dad. So it is the basis of my, of who I am, how I think and how I'm developed and how I teach. My method of teaching is different. And I say to myself that I have a Hawaiian methodology and I believe that if we use that methodology in our schools, we would be able to see immediate change in the attitudes and behavior of students. For example, if a student does not do well, I always look at the teacher and ask the teacher, how are you teaching? And I said, because in the olden days, in Baka Hiko, is that in order for you to move to the next level, you had to know A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J. I don't care if you're, you know, you have a sherry attitude or behaviors but if you can show that you need it, you move to the next level. And that was my responsibility that you get those eight lessons. So your learning is dependent on me as the Kumo. So because we did not have pencil and papers and recorders and movies, the words that one uses as in the case of I am, I can, my words paint pictures. You can taste the salt when I talk about the ocean. That's the level I believe that we need to be teaching at. Well, but you're also teaching attitudes. Yeah. So, you know, it's interesting that I did a show earlier today with a guy named Dean Neubauer. He's a history professor at UH, you know, I'm sorry, political science professor. And we talked about, you know, how education had failed us in this country. Because it didn't teach people how to engage with the community. It had other goals in mind and all the formal requirements of education, federal and state have failed to inculcate what you're talking about. A sense of culture, a sense of together, a sense of collaboration, a sense of family, a sense of, you know, all of the things you're talking about. And because it doesn't have that, we as a country are at risk. Yeah, yeah. The biggest failure, I believe, is that we have devalued the importance of labor work. We have placed all of the successors on having an MSS and a PhD and higher. But you know, it says, you and I with the PhD or you with your PhD, is that you don't know how to grow food. But we don't value those individuals who grow the food for us. We said, the farmer has to be skilled in water, in air, in insects, and so you need only to be proficient in one area. So who has the greater education for survival? Not you, not I. But you see, we don't value, we don't value that, not enough. And so our school system, we're saying, go to college and go to college and go to college and go to college. We should say, go to college and have trade schools. You need to go back to trade schools and students don't get a certificate. They get a diploma for going to trade school, which also comes with that is the hands-on experience. A certificate means is that I answered all the questions in the book about being an electrician, but I don't know what a screwdriver is. A certificate. Well, I think we're coming to a time when that is more and more important to know the detail and how you do the job. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So two thirds of our people in the country need to be hands-on related because the other third can't survive without them. Yeah. We can't survive. Let's talk about music for a minute or earlier. You touched me when you said you also teach music because I feel that music is a sort of a special birthright of the native Hawaiian culture. And regrettably, although there was a burst of activity in Hawaiian music, and not too long ago, the 90s maybe, and the first few years after 2000, but the fact is that it is a fabulous resource. It is a fabulous experience. It's more than just music. It's an experience. It's part of the culture you're talking about. So did you have training in that? Did you know how do you teach them about native Hawaiian music? And what does it mean to you and them? Yeah, yeah. But by all means, I am not a music teacher and I am of the family, the least inclined with regards to music, but I possess a particular kind of knowledge on a given topic that I can use to shape attitudes and behavior for continued learning and success. But I'm not a musician, but I am a poet. I was gonna say, that's what you are. You're a poet. Not everybody is a poet. I'm a poet. Well, at least I like to say to myself that I'm a poet and stringing words together and making it flowery and full of love and emotions comes easy for me. So in the class called Mele Inoa, again, I wanted dads to be dads, to be males, but also to be sensitive to their children and to be closer to their children. So I did a class called Mele Inoa. There's a long explanation for the word Mele Inoa from a cultural perspective, but in simple modern day term, I wanted dads and moms to write songs for their sons or their daughter. One of the dads is a black man and he is married to a woman and they could not, they cannot have children. And so he was tested and the doctor said, you cannot produce babies. And his wife tested, you cannot have babies. So they both cannot. And he was in the class that I was teaching and so he tells his story to nine others in the group about his story. This is therapy now. So you see, I have a clinical background and so attitudes and behavior is really a part of who I am. And so he shares his story and on the night that he shares his stories, he looks down because he was full of tears and the other men know knew that he was going to cry. All the men looked down at the floor because I looked down at the floor. So he could continue to hold his head and look at the rest while we looked at the floor. And he got through the class and the other men said, thank you for sharing. We don't know how privileged we are. That is therapy that is at the highest level. I totally agree. It is at the highest level. I'm the instrument that brings out those kinds of behaviors that addresses the issues and bring people who are not therapists, but a part of the core and the fabric of society to help another one. Here's the words that he put together for his son. Once in a dream you came to me, a dream that has come and gone for years, it's like the whisper of a sweet hummingbird and a dream of tomorrow. That's lovely. It's lovely. He wrote that? Oh, gee whiz. That's it. And you remember it word for word too. And I remember it word, it's so profound and I remember that, yeah. Let us fly free, let us fly free, show us the way to be as one, Ikaika my son. Lovely. Lovely. Beautiful. Powerful. Well, it must be a sort of psychic benefit for you to be in a process where you can draw that out of people, where you can allow them the opportunity to create that, to find a poet in them, no? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's part of our role as teachers, as professors, as mothers and fathers is to bring that out and not let that be the responsibility of the Department of Education or the University of Hawaii, but they are included to include families as well, to be a part of that success. And that success is really about creating a better place for Hawaii and for the world. Yeah, we have the ability to do that. We have the goods to do that. One thing you mentioned though, I wanna just drill down on this a little bit. The poems, for that matter, the music, they're addressed at someone else in the family. They're addressed at somebody close. Even if it's just in a group of the classroom, they're addressed at somebody that the person knows. In fact, the music, as you described it, is music to your parents. Is that music so personal that it cannot be published? Is that music limited within the family or is that music have a meaning outside the family as well? I've encouraged them to record it and make it public. And then some of them would be in music form and some of them would be in poem. And every single one of them, it would be, it warms my heart, but I'm sure it would warm your heart as well and others who. It does, it does. There's great value there. It's like, let's just hold up for a minute. Let's just stop and look around and let's see if we can connect with that in our lives. You know, the funny thing, or I have to say that in the time of COVID, where you and I schmoozing like this, I really enjoy this, I would like some day to sit and have a beer on a picnic table with you, or maybe several beers. You drink beer, don't you? And spend the afternoon that way. But, you know, and back in the day, that's exactly what I did, not so much anymore. But I think COVID gives us time to reflect. COVID gives us a bit of the opportunity you're talking about, where we hesitate for a moment, we look around, we connect, we become introspective and maybe we relate to the people around us, our immediate family in a different way because of COVID. It makes us do that, don't you think? You know, I think that there is a dark side to COVID and there is a plus side to COVID. So COVID as a disease, and now in the pandemic, that's not good for anyone. But what COVID has done, it has forced us to look at who we are, it has forced institutions to look at what they're doing and how they're doing it. And we're finding the answer that what we're doing is not good enough. Yeah, there you have it. And we have to recalculate, recalculate where we're going on this. We need to do it that way. And that's not only for institutions at Kamehameha Schools at Keiki Okaina, but also in the city council and also in the legislature as well. That kind of thinking has to change. I just got off to our meeting with the Cattle Association because I wanted them to talk about or help me and the work that I'm doing on Moloka'i to raise cattle on Moloka'i so that Moloka'i can remain Moloka'i as opposed to Moloka'i becoming a Waikiki. Now that Moloka'i is the only untouched island where the culture is still at 85% Hawaiian. Don't forget Ni'ihau now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well Ni'ihau is privately owned, yeah. Okay. And if tourism go to Moloka'i, then it'll become a Waikiki. So keeping Moloka'i, Moloka'i is not just water riddies, yeah, and decoits issue and mashadows issue. It's everyone's issue because that allows all of us to step back in time and see what Hawaii was like at some point in time. So we only have a few minutes left and I wanted to ask you this, where are we going? Where is Keiki Oka'ina going? Where is Momi going? Where are you going? If we look in five or 10 years, what are we gonna see? Was your relationship with Kamehameha Schools gonna be? And these kids, and how are they gonna be doing? How's the culture gonna be doing? Do you have any sense of the future? Well, there is the personal side and the personal side is this. I am at the peak of my knowledge, my Hawaiian knowledge, and the peak is that I am refined in my thinking and I have 40 people that are following me, that I am teaching. So my contribution to the future is in those 40 that come and follow me for 11 years. They've been studying with me. And they are taking my place. They are now speaking at 45 minutes and they say, Kumo, you only have five minutes to talk. Perfect. Perfect. And so because they are covering so much, what I once covered, I can now zero in and refining those points that they cover. It's the refining of the Ike, at the next level. Institutions have to want that same desire. Department of Education, Kamehameha School, Office of Hawaiian Affairs to include our governor and the mayor is at the next level and what is that next level? But we cannot do it alone. We need to extend the hand and invite them into the table. I think we're at an inflection point with that very thought, you know. I think this is, you know, you're the perfect guy, the perfect time with the perfect experience and the perfect vision. And you're an important fellow in terms of seeing into the future. Can I join your class? Would you mind, girl? I will invite you rather than join the class because if you join the class, it is said I will hold you to finishing. I agree, the imitation is better. But also is that I teach Board and Stone classes and that is the baseline for other classes that I teach. So if I am going to teach a Melle Inoa class, I will extend the invitation to those that completed the Board and Stone class. I teach for O'Ponopono also and that invitation is not extended to the community. Again, I said, if you completed Board and Stone, you are invited to the orientation, but you are not in. You invited to the orientation to hear the rigor and the requirements and then you have to decide whether you can produce it. So that is not me. It's not the way I think it is the way of the ancestors, that ancestral thinking. It's a great legacy. Well, okay, we're out of time, Earl. I wish we had more time, but we will have more time. We'll talk again and we'll follow, don't leave town. But if you want, you can maybe send some instruction on O'Ponopono to Washington, D.C. and see if it helps them, because I think they need it now. Oh, yes, it's quite interesting. We need O'Ponopono and I'll say, make the tickets for 40 people, as if my students are coming. Thank you, Earl. It's been great to talk to you. I'm looking forward to the next time. Aloha. Thank you for inviting me and thank you, Peter, for making the connection. Yeah, thank you, Peter. Be well, Jay.