 Good afternoon and thank you very much indeed everyone who has come to this high commissioner our five co-hosts Brazil the quinoa Faso France Italy Timor-Leste excellencies welcome to our panel on the death penalty poverty and the right to legal representation This afternoon after opening remarks by the High Commissioner of Human Rights The the co-hosts will each say a few words and then we will have a panel discussion last Saturday I Happened upon I came across something that almost perfectly encapsulates the impetus and the message behind this afternoon's event It was two tweets by the noted death row campaigner sister Helen Prageen author of dead man walking They weren't first one is this capital punishment means Them without capital gets a punishment And the second one was the death penalty is a poor person's issue in the end It's the poor who are selected to die in this country. You'll never find a rich person on death row Now these are a brutal and breathtaking truth in what she said and they have of course Been major positive developments towards the universal abolition of the death penalty With 160 countries having either abolished it or else stopped carrying them out On the other hand where executions are still carried out they disproportionately affect the poor While those who can afford good legal representation are fortunately spared So it's my honor to give the floor first to the our new High Commissioner for Human Rights Michelle Bachelet She's also at this event representing the Secretary General who like her is a long Has long been a staunch staunch supporter of the movement against the death penalty and sent his deep progress That he cannot be here right now. Hi Commissioner. You have the floor Thank you, Andrew distinguish ministers Excellencies colleagues and friends When I took up my functions as High Commissioner for Human Rights on the 1st of September One of the first invitations that I gladly accepted was to open this panel on death penalty and poverty I take this opportunity to thank the member states sponsoring the event Italy Brazil Burkina Faso France and Timor-Leste as I consider the issue of the death penalty I reflected on a sequence of issues I would like to share this sequence with you because it creates an essential context first Member states adapted the 2030 agenda in 2015 The sustainable development goals are a global vision for peace for human rights and development Their essence is drawn from human rights the rights to education health adequate housing and much more The Secretary General has made the SDGs a top priority and the UN is working with member states to reform the development system to this end Second some elements essential to the success of the SDGs lie beyond development alone To truly leave no one behind Development action must be underpinned by the rule of law Member states including national municipal Authorities need to rely on a suitable body of law and justice To apply the decisions on to apply the human rights standards that are at the core of the SDGs Law guides the decision on policies and budgets that will drive implementation of the SDGs Justice system provide accountability to ensure the law is applied correctly and Recourse when it's not to benefit from the SDGs and skate poverty everyone But particularly the very poor must be able to rely on the rule of law Third when we say the rule of law we mean human rights in preparing for the position for the High Commissioner I reread the 1993 Vienna declaration on human rights Let that led to the establishment of this office and the declaration made clear that UN action on the rule of law is human rights Based and it called for human UN's human rights office to coordinate a comprehensive program for the rule of law For there is no more heart-rending example of the failure of the rule of law than when Inequity in justice system is compounded by poverty to expose people to the ultimate injustice of the death penalty International human rights law calls for the abolition of the death penalty Because it considers the penalty itself a violation of rights But international human rights law also opposes the inequity in the death penalty application So there is no question that while the death penalty continues to exist there will always be errors of abuse or its application In conclusion at its most specific the subject that has brought to us here today It's about individuals around the world whose poverty makes them specially vulnerable to injustice Generated by failures in justice system and the rule of law At its broadest the issues about achieving the high quality of global development Promise in the SDGs it about ensuring that the rule of law is grounded in human rights It is about our respect for humanity and for our self if we were unable to guarantee That the poor will receive justice when their very lives are at risk in the context of the death penalty How can we hope to provide the rule of law foundation needed to achieve the SDGs? And so in opening this panel I appeal to member states Help us ensure that the rule of law underlies the 2030 agenda and the UN development system Help us ensure that multilateral action on the rule of law is human rights base as envisioned by you in Vienna a quarter century ago Help us progress towards moratoriums and a virtual Eventual abolition with death penalty with stronger use justice system to protect all human rights We call on all states to demonstrate their commitment to the universal abolition of the death penalty The UN human rights office opposes the use or the death penalty in all circumstances I commend again the member state taking the lead on this issue and thank our distinguished panelists We will share their experience with you as today. Thank you very much Thank you very much indeed high commissioner for those powerful points which will guide our discussions I would now like to give the floor to the various co-sponsors And invite them to come to the podium I might suggest maybe we don't need to applaud them all since we have so many speakers during the course of the afternoon But the first one would be the foreign minister of Italy Italy has been a very kindly Contributed financially to the holding of this meeting. So Thank you Okay, yeah Thank you very much Organizers this meeting for Italy is of greatest importance We very much support all initiatives all around the world and notably here inside the UN organization to Eliminate eradicate the death penalty from any kind of legislation and Implementation we are firmly Committed to that kind of goal. This is something that is part Really part of our Legal culture in Italy. Let's just quote the very well-known work of Cesare Becaria back in the 18th century a period where the death penalty and even Worst practices were part of the legal system all around the world the Great dachy of Tuscany in the middle of the 19th century had the first legislation not providing that penalty for a criminal for criminal action and in in the first criminal code of unified Italy and Again of the 19th century the death penalty was no more there The death penalty was reintroduced and not by case in Italy during the fascist Dictator and these creates immediately a link between these penalty and the lack of freedom and legal protection for for people Since the end of the Second World War with the the code of the Republic of Italy the death penalty was No more provided and we have even dropped in the 90 in the year 90s of of the last century is the death penalty from From the the military code. So I think for once our country has really Given a sort of good example that we very much Encourage everyone to follow it is Very well known that many European countries have maintained the death penalty for a long time even during the last centuries and after the Second World War the Three element mentioned in the title of these conference that penalty Poverty and the right to legal representation are interconnected that they represent a sort of ideal triptych of action and line to action to be to be undertaken there is a and this is Very bad there is a strict link between poverty between the lack of a right to legal representation for everybody and the death penalty the death penalty is Frequently used against people who are not able to defend themselves and this is very much part of what is wrong with this kind of Irreversible pain and and and act of human being against other human being No one has the right to kill somebody else in whatever kind of legal or really legal situation We have to bear that in mind and to incorporate that in our Legislation the rule of law which is frequently mentioned as a sort of weapon to put pressures on country when we Consider this kind of rule still present in many legislation shows how the humanity can Really make a step forward towards a better Inclusive society which sees the pain always as a remedy to Bring also the guilty person to to to to understand what wrong was done and To maybe to start or to have if possible a sort of new life Even after the horrible crime which can bring in many legislation people to that penalty So we are very much convinced that these should be following the resolution of the UN in back in 2007 one of the main goal for all of us and that if we keep united Engage even more than what we have done until now the number of Countries which support this initiative has increased over the years we can really reach an important goal and give all our nation the sense of a full Humanitarian system of law which doesn't mean that we do not have to punish those who are guilty of horrible crimes, but we have not the right to Take their life out. We are not the right to risk irreversible mistake in legal judgment via a penalty which by definition is a definitive one. So this is our Convincement as Government for the time being this is our Convincement even stronger as a nation and as a people this is what Italy via my words and courage all of us to to do as a joint action To improve the overall situation all around the world. Thank you very much And I very much hope that this occasion will bring us good reflections towards the common goal. Thank you Thank you so much excellently. I Just wanted to note. I meant to say before that the High Commissioner has to leave I won't say unfortunately because it's another very important event that our office is organizing I now give the floor to the Foreign Minister of Timor-Left Excellency. Thank you Thank you chair Excellency Madame Michelle Brachette High Commissioner for Human Rights Distinguish Ladies and gentlemen I'll move first of all to say that I won't be staying until the end of this meeting As I have another meeting coming up But it is a great pleasure and privilege for me to be here representing the government of Timor-Left on this major occasion And also co-host these important event This event remind us again of the importance of the evolution of death penalty and fighting poverty and inequality Death penalty has been the subject of competing trends in recent years a Never a greater number of countries have now abandoned capital punishment out of 193 UN member states Approximately 160 have abolished the penalty or introduced a moratorium in law or practice At the international level progression towards evolution was reflected in the adoption of the six Beeniel General Assembly resolution on a global death penalty moratorium in December 2016 Which was supported by 117 of the 193 member states showing growing support for a moratorium On the other hand The threat of terrorism and measures to address drug trafficking has led some countries to consider reintroducing capital punishment In the meantime Increasing concern over capital punishment being imposed on citizens abroad Including from countries which themselves apply it vigorously has been seen at the global level ladies and gentlemen It was prompted by the adoption of the sustainable development goals The link between poverty and the death penalty was another issue Attracting increased attention at the international level The people on this rule were found to belong to the economically vulnerable section of the population and most had not completed secondary education Poor migrant workers are mostly like are most likely to receive a death sentence according to amnesty international Countries that retain the death penalty should progressively Move towards abolition by establishing a moratorium by reducing the number of crimes Attracting the death penalty and by improving conditions on a death rule At the minimum that sentences could be employed for the most serious offenses offenses and are there to Procedural safeguard safeguard has laid out international law The 2030 agenda in the in any particular the SDG 16 devoted to governance explicitly recognize the importance of good governance and Specifically aims at advances in democracy share prosperity the rule of law peace human rights inclusion and gender equality It commits governments to providing access to justice for all and building effective accountable and inclusive institutional at all levels the global commitment to leave no one behind in Implementing the SDG's must not exclude people on trial for crimes that carry that penalty Ensuring access to quality legal representation should be the entitlement of all citizens Timor-Leste is a democratic country upholding the principles of the universal declaration of human rights to all citizens are equal before the law and Is aware of the linkage between poverty and the shortfalls in legal representation? the right to a person's life needs to be guaranteed and protected first and foremost Timor-Leste's constitution Article 28.3 states that there is no death penalty in the Democratic Republic of Timor-Leste Ladies and gentlemen Timor-Leste ratified the second additional protocol to the international covenant on civil and political rights To abolish moratorium death penalty. We advocated legal assistance for the vulnerable peoples before and during the trial Their penalty is inextricably linked to poverty social and economic inequality status Which affect access to justice for those who are sentenced to death for several reasons? Defendants may lack resources such as social and economic but also political power to defend themselves Unwilling some cases be discriminated against because of their social status Everyone has the right to life as much as the right to justice advocacy Ladies and gentlemen Timor-Leste continues to develop its legal institutions and processes alongside the Timorese traditional justice system The justice sector plays a crucial role in building and line the foundation to Consolidate peace and stability and to guarantee that the rule of law that plays a vital part of in our society in post-conflict circumstances Despite being faced with various obstacles Timor-Leste is attempting and working to develop and strengthen its justice sector to make justice a reality for all without exception Today an estimated 1.1 to 1.5 million Timorese are served by a legal process progress Which is being implemented by our court system that consists of four district courts and one court of appeal Including an independent prosecution service and a public defender's office created alongside district offices Before and ladies and gentlemen Let me emphasize that it is important to acknowledge that debt penalty Remains one of the obstacles that all nations need to consider abolishing in order to respect the rights of hit human being and To end the violation of a basic right and human dignity. Thank you very much Thank you Excellency I now give the floor to the to the foreign minister of Bikini facile and Can I remind speakers maybe to limit to three minutes will be appreciated? President dear panelist and ladies and gentlemen It's a real pleasure for my country to be part of that high-level event regarding a debt penalty the rights and the rights to be represented legally and It doesn't have to be demonstrated regarding the necessity to provide the poorest people and the most vulnerable people to have legal assistance the rule of law and the Low institutions have enough resources and these are the priorities for the government of my country there were several reforms that were launched to Make sure that the citizens have access to justice and in order to implement the Penalties that are would be more adequate the booking of facile has been for 30 years and abolitionist country and Through the non-execution of a people who were condemned to death since 1988 and my country hasn't stopped To Susport all the resolutions of the general assembly of the United Nations and Mr Director general and Mr. Mr. Da the the will the very strong will of Buckingham facile to Abolish them death penalty is progressively on the legal plan Translated by by one Low regarding torture and assimilated practice and adopt Also the adoption by the National Assembly of Burkina Faso of the new panel code of May 31st of 2018 completes the journey of my country towards the application of more human sentencing Major evolutions that took place in this code are provisions of the abolition for death penalty and the centralization of the criminal provisions and international engagement in Burkina Faso This code makes available to the legal world a working instrument compliant with the aspirations of our people Ultimately the draft of our new Constitution that has already been debated and rev to a consensus in the political stipulates an article 5 line 2 that nobody can be sentenced to the penalty the adoption of this new constitution is going to bring more protection to the right to life in our country the The poorest people face lack of legal aid that can Bring a risk of the application of death penalty. This is why the justice in my country has always Has always made possible for poor people to have legal access to legal aid the late they need to defend their Their rights through a commission of lawyers the funds for the legal aid have increased year to year failing to Get a complete abolition in all states It's necessary to ensure the right of defense to all vulnerable people and this will minimize the risk of Application of applying the death penalty. It is also important to call on to the international community To join all necessary efforts for the right to respect to life like Eugene V docks said The death penalty is an immoral sentencing It's useless because it it makes people used to the show of ordeals And it doesn't repair anything because unfortunately The death of the killer does not bring back the victim to life. Thank you Merci beaucoup give the floor to the thank you very much the minister from Brazil. Thank you Firstly, I would like to thank the Italian government and the office of the High Commissioner For Human Rights for organizing this important event Brazil attaches great importance to actions that aim at contributing to the death penalty moratorium Under the Brazilian Constitution the death penalty is prohibited Furthermore, we have ratified important human rights treaties that address this issue And we have been traditionally engaged in initiatives under the auspices of the United Nations That seek to restrict the application of this penalty In light of the principle of human dignity and the right to life Brazil's engagement in this matter is further reaffirmed by the fact that we are currently acting as a Negotiation facilitator for the resolution on the moratorium on death penalty Which will be discussed this October in the third committee The last General Assembly resolution addressing the subject adopted in December 2016 welcomed the global progress towards the abolition of the death penalty encouraged by the adoption of a moratorium of the sentence and Urged states to establish safeguards to protect the rights of those facing capital punishment With the spirit of moving forward in the in this theme I invite all participants in this event to join efforts with Brazil for him for approving of this year's resolution Capital punishment is a blatant human rights violation, which is incompatible with more than just the principle of human dignity As indicated by the proponents of this event the application of this penalty has a Disproportional impact over the poorest and I shall add over racial ethnic and religious minorities as well as LBGTI Which often are deprived of means to afford judicial and administrative costs of their defense When they are not deprived of free and unimpeded access to governmental institutions Given how death penalty is an irrevocable punishment one cannot ignore the risks of its application to innocent people Who might be incapable of defending themselves properly? Due to social economic factors that go beyond their will Should we ignore this risk? We would be neglecting the vicious cycle through which social Marginization increases the possibilities of criminal condemnation the application of Reversible punishment as the death penalty only worsens this cycle Thus contributing to the situation of vulnerability of marginalized social groups Moreover, the most vulnerable are precisely those who living whose living standards We are trying to improve with the sustainment sustainable development goals the SDGs We agree then with the proponents of this event when they state that the achievement of the SDGs Necessarily entails the guarantee of equal access to justice Which cannot be achieved with the application of the death penalty to people who do not have adequate legal representation And who are often condemned Based on discriminatory grounds We urge states that still apply this form of punishment to join efforts for a universal Moratorium on the death penalty aiming at its complete abolition We also urge states that still apply the sort of punishment to make all possible actions So that everyone without discrimination of any kind can have their right to adequate and effective representation assured. Thank you Thank you, excellency, and now I call on the minister of state from France Ladies and gentlemen dear friends Honorable ministers, Excellencies you We all Have in our literature People who have marked as I'm going to do site now and a French author who I think Touches the universal with in it is Albert Camus Albert Camus You know the author of the foreigner let's change it a novel Where that talks about the absurd? afterwards wrote some reflections on death penalty and He shares a Thought that I wish to share with you right now he says Death penalty would not intimidate a criminal That means that it is powerless in most cases. I think that this struggle abolitionist struggle that Has been carried on for decades by many people we need to perpetuate and This today is the occasion to say again how the death penalty is an inhuman inefficient and unfair punishment and when this unfair punishment affects This proportionately the most vulnerable then there's a double injustice We know People are not the same equal in front of the juices. They don't all have the possibility to Have a legal aid like they exist for instance in France and this This equilibrium in access to the justice can translate itself to a more fundamental inequality that can have For consequence the loss of life So this argument in itself should be enough to persuade us for those to need to be persuaded How the death penalty is a violation of human rights? so last 10 of October during the the global day against the death penalty France organized with the civil society a day on this subject on death penalty and poverty because for us the fight against the Against the death penalty also joins the fight against poverty a subject that a president Macron talked about this morning in front of the General Assembly and that is Along with the presentation of France for a resolution on extreme poverty So when we are going now that we're going to celebrate the 17th anniversary of the declaration of human rights It is more than ever necessary to stay mobilized for this for the abolition of death penalty France encourages the states who haven't done it yet to bring their vote at the General Assembly in favor of a universal moratorium and I wish to congratulate my colleague from Burkina Faso because Like he just said that the country abolished last June 1st That the death penalty so this is One more step forward and I hope that there will be More step forwards so that this injustice ends. Thank you Merci beaucoup to the panel part of the discussion. We have four exceptionally qualified panelists today and each will speak for up to seven minutes and Then we will then have a discussion after that I'd like to start with Professor Philip Austin who is currently the UN special rapporteur on extreme poverty But before that from 2004 2010 He was the special rapporteur on extra judicial and summary executions so I believe he's Uniquely well placed to speak on the links between poverty and the death penalty, which is of course our theme for today So professor Austin, thank you very much assistant secretary general It's a great Pleasure to be here and to be able to address This important set of issues I Don't think we really need to spend much time on establishing the links between Poverty and the death penalty. There was a famous South African case Very soon after the fall of apartheid where the constitutional court Held that the death penalty was unconstitutional and one of the principal reasons for that was that People who don't have significant resources were far more likely at every stage of the criminal process To become candidates for Execution there have been reports from a number of countries most recently an important Indian report Reports from Nigeria and elsewhere But it's also worth noting that there are not actually a lot of studies undertaken which document in any great detail the extent to which socio-economic class or status is Actually directly linked to the death penalty. I can certainly say that from my own experience as special rapporteur on Executions That I rarely ever encountered cases involving people with wealth There are of course situations where political Enemies are subject to the death penalty in some regimes and the apartheid Regime was the perfect example of that But otherwise the death penalty has a big sign on it saying reserved reserved for the poor For those who cannot buy their way out of arrest in the first place Those who cannot afford legal representation to argue their case Those who cannot afford a decent appeal and Those who simply hold no weight in the eyes of the government of the day. So they're perfect candidates for execution I Think it's extremely important for us to be pushing this dimension That the death penalty is apart from anything else Illegitimate simply because of the extent to which it is based on wealth versus poverty however, we also need to inject a small negative note into the debate and acknowledge that there's an over Riding reason Why the argument of the link between the death penalty and poverty is not Winning the day automatically and the answer of course is that poverty Plays out in the same way in relation to most civil and political rights The poor are far more likely to be tortured far more likely to be subjected to police brutality Far more likely to be raped by security forces. I Remember One particular country that I visited as rapporteur when the police were Suddenly horrified to discover that one of the many people they had killed was the son of a prominent politician That was a big mistake and they would never have intended it had they known They much prefer to execute poor people who can't defend themselves In closing I would only want to draw attention to the Relative lack of attention that is given to poverty itself in the human rights area poverty does lead to a violation of most other human rights and But in a world that is dominated by neoliberal economic policies Where the poor are increasingly marginalized and stigmatized That is going to have very major Consequences for the enjoyment of a whole range of human rights and not just for carrying out of the death penalty We won't get rid of the death penalty by making the argument of its linked to poverty until we start embracing Much more comprehensively the deeper links between poverty and the violation of a wide range of human rights Thank you Thank you so much professor. So I now give the floor to Maria Nageau who's the advocate for the High Court in Kenya and currently serving as the secretary of Justice and Constitutional Affairs She's also currently the chairperson of the task force on review of the mandatory death sentence under section 204 of the penal code of Kenya Give just a short background to to this task force because Professor has said that we don't need to To emphasize the link between dead, you know poverty and the death penalty So, but I'll just give filing the filings of this task force Because in 2017 the High Court in Kenya declared the mandatory nature of the dead sentence and Constitutional but The court declared as declared that It was not outlawing the death penalty, but the mandatory nature of that of that of that sentence so the High Court directed that that We look into necessary amendments formulations and enactment of statute law to give effect To the judgment because in their reasoning They decoated the the Human Rights Council Saying that the Human Rights Council has recommended the abolition of the dead sentence as a mandatory sentence they also said that There in making the dead sentence mandatory our penal code Deprives the court of the court of the use of judicial discretion in a matter of life and death and So according to the Supreme Court such law can only be regarded as harsh and just and unfair and they also Encourage the courts to ensure that in having in having out sentences They must take into account the age of the offender Whether the offender is is a first offender or a repeat offender whether the offender pleaded guilty the character and record of the offender The commission of the offense in response to gender-based violence The remorsefulness of the offender The possibility of reform and social Readaptation of the offender and any other factor that the court considers relevant and In our in our looking into this issue We we thought that poverty was one of those other factors that the court should Have in mind considering that when you look at the The cases that you know the offenses that fetch the death penalty in Kenya We have about a 13 of them and only one of those is murder the rest It's a robbery with warrants Trees on the others are found in the Kenya defense forces act the ones pying Communicating with the enemy itc. So they are for the task force was required then to to set up a legal framework to deal with the sentence rehearing and review the legislative framework and We are also supposed to recommend a guide to death sentencing And we also Are to come up with parameters of what ought to constitute live imprisonment in case we make recommendations that majority of these other cases Then should fetch the life sentence and even in cases where Marta has been committed as a task force. We are we are categorizing this into four We'll have what we are You know, we are calling the first decree murder which then Fetches the life sentence and we're coming up with the parameters of what will constitute that life sentence and and where we have The first one is a gravitated murder We recommend you're recommending that to be life But then the life would determine what that life means with no parole, but The government itself we also being guided by the fact that The government has in place now the national legal aid policy and the national legal aid service and One of the reasons why this policy was adopted was in our economic blueprint We identified the lack of access to justice as having a direct a direct link to poverty and Acknowledged that economic growth alone is insufficient for achieving meaningful improvement in the quality of life of the poor marginalized and vulnerable people and groups and Therefore the vision 2030 the economic blueprint Recognizes that there should be three pillars of development Economic political and social and the political pillar in in particular views on various other aspects of human rights And the rule of law and it recognizes that an efficient Accessible timely affordable legal and judicial Service encourages a culture of law abiding citizenry and human rights protection Which are cornerstones to social Political and economic development. I would want to but just quote a few Statements from prisoners that we visited on death row Because in our executing our terms of reference We we set out to collect demographic demographic data on the death row population to obtain just a picture of their socio-economic indicators and We we had a sample of 833 persons on death row consisting of seven eighty nine men and one twenty nine women And the majority of this that that we talked to We sampled once one hundred and sixty-five fells 142 men and 25 female offenders and out of those 167 only one month and one woman had attained University education the rents were certificate holders primary school dropouts And the majority of them state that they did not benefit from a trial largely according to them because of poverty poor education and remote education and They also did not benefit from any form of legal representation during their trials and appeals and According to them this amounted to substantial Injustice a majority of the in of the male in inmates that we we that on death row were convicted of the crime of robbery with violence and majority of them of course Blamed poverty for their crimes and as one inmate put it I'll quote him I did not kill anyone I only threatened her with a knife because I needed some money. I did not hurt her at all I have an electrician certificate, but I've not gotten a job since graduating from the from the police technique I'm married with two children. I regret what I did my wife has since returned to her parents She has never visited me since I was called him to death and and it goes on and on and I think The I think the most the most touching or what they the women inmate Because you know according to them Life is passing them by the children are growing up They have nobody to you know to to lock up to look after them But like professor says I think though the link between Poverty and being on death row is real especially in the country. Thank you Thank you very much. I Arthur speaker Panelist is Kumi Naidu who is the new secretary general for Amnesty International Yesterday, I was introduced to my panel describing His organization has been over the last 60 years on torture I and I said that amnesty was over the last 60 years the world's leading Campaigning organization against torture, but one can say the same thing about amnesty's record on the death penalty to Kumi Thank you very much. Your excellencies ladies and gentlemen I'm speaking on behalf of amnesty as you've been told which has this long history of activism around the death penalty I welcome this opportunity today to take another step in the long road towards what we are determined should be the full Abolition of the death penalty. Let me begin by recalling the story of Usman Talabano who faced the prospect of a firing squad in Indonesia for approximately five years It was his state appointed lawyer who asked the judge to sentence Usman to death and Later failed to inform him of his right to appeal Years later with the support of Indonesia's Ministry of Law and Human Rights Usman and his new legal team were able to gather forensic evidence that led to his eventual release Just over a year ago Usman's story is a cautionary tale about the toxic combination of the death penalty and poverty He was lucky to survive, but it is a story that would never before a rich person The truth is that factors which have little to do with the crime itself Can shape a person's experience of the criminal justice system and affect life and death decisions for them I want to share four factors that significantly impact our person will meet the fate in this lethal lottery of the death penalty It is a quadruple burden of disadvantage That shows in sharp light the extent to which the death penalty is ultimately a scourge for the poor the first factor We know that those living in poverty are often unable to enjoy the right to receive competent and effective Legal counsel at all stages in the proceedings a critical safeguard of course in capital cases But this challenge runs much deeper than simply access to a lawyer or the quality of the assistance Amnesty has seen in numerous cases that less Advantage defendants were unable to enjoy the much needed support of forensic and medical experts To prepare the defense not many were as lucky as you smart the second factor Whether you live or die Depends on who you are Where you come from what you own what language you speak who you know and how much of education you have as Usman case shows if you don't know how the system works. You can't call out your lawyer's failings You can't appeal against your death sentence a Comprehensive study by the National Law University of Delhi shows how low literacy levels and Marginalized social networks are important factors which influence people's ability to engage with the judicial process So those from marginalized castes classes or religious communities are already at a critical disadvantage In Saudi Arabia only those able to influence the victims relatives through power money kinship or friendship Seek in obtaining a pardon from the family and therefore avoid Execution the help of legal representatives alone is not enough migrant workers on the other hand lack these relationships and resources of the 104 cases in which pardons were granted between 2000 and 2008 foreign nationals accounted for only 10 Despite the fact that they make up almost half of those who are executed executed in Saudi Arabia the third factor The burdens of disadvantage Multiply as those on death row with families living in poverty are much more vulnerable to exploitation in Nigerian men Contacted amnesty in a state of great distress over the fate of his brother Facing execution in another country the defense team had demanded that he pay an Exorbitant fee to secure a medical expert to assess his brother's mental disorder the fourth and final factor Nationality throws another element of chance into the mix Where there a foreign person on death row lives or dies is heavily dependent on whether their country or nationality provides consular and legal assistance and our effectivities and All too often their fate comes down to political priorities of their government back home Exactly one week ago We received a message from a woman seeking help on behalf of a close family member Recently sentenced to death in another country a words speak volumes about what she and her relatives have gone through and I quote Honestly, we have no idea what is going on We were sent that little piece of information about the appeal, but nobody can really explain it We have sent many emails around the world looking for answers for two weeks. I Asked how much time was left for the appeal and received conflicting answers I also asked whether this is an actual appeal or just the application to appeal and again I received conflicting answers We know nothing of the about the procedures nor the appointed lawyer We have not been able to contact anyone to represent this matter in court Our embassy have not communicated with us except for that one email They intend to wait until after the appeal is lost before they are willing to even try anything But by then it could be too late Ladies and gentlemen that the dead penalty persists is a scourge on humanity But we should not judge on the basis of the most powerful and Their progress but the welfare of the most vulnerable There can be no clear a demand on our consciences than the fate of the poor on death row It is time to end this lethal lottery It is time for leadership and moral clarity It is time to banish the dead penalty the ultimate cruel Inhuman and degrading punishment to history forever the struggle to ensure this continues And I conclude in drawing your attention to those of you who want to continue to contribute in this fight of The holding of the Seventh World Congress against death penalty Which will take place in Brussels, Belgium from the 27th of February to the 1st of March 2019 and Invite you to attend that Congress and continue the struggle to end What is a brutal inhumane form of punishment? Thank you very much Thank you very much Kumi. So our fourth and final panelist is Indumi Alattushani Indumi Was wrongfully convicted of murder in 1985 An all-white Memphis jury found him guilty and sentenced him to death despite The testimony of several witness alibis who all insisted that Indumi was actually in St. Louis at the time of the crime He spent 27 years in prison 20 of them on death row before his conviction was finally overturned Since his release six years ago He's been working as a community organizer for the Children's Defense Fund where he works to dismantle the cradle the prison pipeline It's an honor to have you with us Indumi First I want to begin by thanking everybody here And particularly the people that's the General Assembly that's putting it on When I sit here and listen to everything that's being said and just kind of being here first off, I know that I'm really fortunate to be here and But I'm reminded about the people that I left People that I consider to be my family. They're still sitting on death row right here in this country and I Wish it was some kind of way that not only them but everybody around the world that's facing this this unfortunate fate Would be able to see what's actually happening here today because I'm sure would give them hope I was one of them people like you said, I mean when you talk about poverty and the issues and The death penalty only being reserved for the poorest people. I was one of them people I was one of my persons that because they have first off being a black man here in America, but also to not having the means to To have the type of representation that Everybody should have if they facing a death penalty. I'm saying that they shouldn't be facing it at all But if you're gonna have the death penalty You should certainly see that the people that's subject to it have every opportunity to come before the court or try Whatever they're going before improve or have them approve You know whether or not they guilty of the crime But also to to be able to have some representation to bring forth some of the information that all of us know that people For whatever circumstances that may cause them to land on death row that that happens in the instance That don't say nothing about who this person was who they family is They don't say nothing about none of that and I think that too often. I Think that too often You know the people there's voiceless It's the ones that subject to it the whole time I sit in prison and Everything that I know about the death penalty here in this country and whereas exercise around the world that The whole time I was there. I never met nobody or anybody that had money Nobody I never met a rich person sitting on death row I mean all the all the people that I was locked up with was certainly people just like I was it was not unlike me We're respect to the resources that they had to bring the brand I I want to say this here too that I know it's a lot of stuff going on this week up here at the UN And I had an opportunity to hear some of what President Trump had to say and how he was time, you know, the United States being whatever he was trying to promote but the reality is that in this country When you dealing with the the criminal justice system, especially somebody that looked like me then I'm saying to the people that's in this room. I'm saying that you guys are going to have to be the one to drag the United States into the future Because as long as as long as you have The implementation of the death penalty certainly innocent people gonna be Be a subject to it and like I said, I'm I'm so fortunate that I'm able to be sitting here at this table because half the state of Tennessee had it their way I certainly wouldn't be sitting here and when you talk about a Me growing up in St. Louis the ironic thing about my situation is that I was born and raised in St. Louis and I had never even been to the state of Tennessee until I was actually taken down there and handcuffed in shackles and put on trial for the crime that I Was ultimately convicted of and sentenced to death and spent as it would say it 20 years or total 27 years Before I was released June 1st of 2012 and it was only because a Good people like the people sitting in this room that actually care about it and people my family and friends and people that That stood up That made it possible for me to be sitting here and and I would implore you guys that whatever you have whatever opportunity that you have to Help eradicate the world from this particular punishment. I'm saying that it's incumbent on us that we actually do it I say knowledge makes us responsible. Once we know something We don't have no excuse and I'm saying the very fact that I'm sitting here before you guys And I'm telling you but for good people. I wouldn't be here. I'm saying that It's our responsibility To make sure that don't happen to nobody else whether guilty or innocent I'm saying that I'm still baffled bad idea that you can you could try to Kill people to tell people killing is wrong It just don't work and I know that some people With what's happening in the world you see people You know committing heinous acts and it Changed to appeal to this thing inside of us to say that they deserve nothing more than death But for some of them people you giving them just I mean you take a terrorist Somebody that's trying to kill itself. I mean killing them is you ain't doing nothing to him But what you doing is you telling the people in society that For those people that don't want to conform That you could use this as a as a way to being and break people Into conforming to you know, whatever it whatever it is that they trying to promote and I'm saying that like I said I think that I'm so honored to be here and I think that You know, like I said, I just wish it was some kind of way that the people that I know they're sitting in these places Could actually see and knew about all that's happening outside of here to hopefully Like I said say they lies To help to hopefully say they lies. I think it's I think it's such an important issue Like I said, I got people there still sitting on death row that I consider to be my family and I vowed to them that Once I got out That I was gonna do everything that I possibly can to make sure that people know you know that They sitting what they sitting there. I know you people I don't know how many you guys you never seen the inside of a jail cell or prison cell but for a lot of years I Was in the sale that I couldn't even stretch my arms out like this It was only four feet wide and nine feet long. I was in there 23 hours of the day Every time I came out I was shackled and changed like some imaginary monster Shuffled from one place to another at one point And this is just how This is just how cruel it is At one point I Was in the sale Right next door to me was a sale that they had converted to a shower The people would come we was only getting three showers a week at that time The people would come and spend upwards of 15 minutes to shock on chain me To take me out of my sail and scoop me right from right here literally Right here to give me a five minute shower It would cut the time on on the shower in five minutes the shower went off and it would take them another Up was a 15 minutes to move me From here right back over here And I'm saying that nobody Guilty innocent should be treated the way some people are being treated in this country And I can imagine I can hardly imagine I should say For places outside of this country What people are being subjected to As they sit and wait for somebody to come in take them out a sale and take them to whatever They use them to execute people I'm saying that I mean just you know as the French Minister say it the thing is that We have to demand abolition now And we have to do it because as long as this happening not only a people gonna be executed But innocent people gonna be executed and that's the bottom line innocent people gonna be executed and I I can't It's it's hard for me to imagine that any sensible person There's got any Humanity in them will say that they support a punishment that they know is gonna kill innocent people That's hard for me to grab my man around Like I said, I'm happy to be here. Thanks. There was me earlier saying don't feel the need to applaud But that was very hard not to um, I now open the floor I would like to ask participants to please be brief and also to introduce themselves when they take the floor I I had no stuff or slumber need is for me this working. I'm speaking on behalf of the European Union Civilized countries have an Obligation not simply to punish guilty people, but also To ensure that they do not punish innocent people that's what civilization is about and That obligation in the case of the death penalty as do me mentioned Is even more stark? Because that penalty is irreversible and when the mistake is made you cannot take it back Every legal system as everyone on the panel said will make mistakes The best one the most perfect one the one that is not corrupt The one that affords to its poorest people the perfect representation for free will make mistakes and the systems the majority in the world that Do not have those safeguards will make even more mistakes When you can buy yourself out of a police arrest or where you can buy yourself out of a conviction When your financial status, I like what you said Andrew at the beginning a capital punishment is the punishment for those without capital That Brings a spotlight on the tremendous injustice So whereas capital punishment must be abolished now and the European Union is leading the fight around the world on this precise goal It is important that until this happens We try to open the ears and the eyes of people even those who support the death penalty To the tremendous economic injustice around it it is quite remarkable that The same people will complain about globalization and how very often it results in Tremendous economic inequality and they will do so rightfully as Philip mentioned may be people who will celebrate the death penalty as a Appropriate punishment Without being able to see that poverty does not pick and choose where it Implements as kumi said it's it's injustice. It just it just takes Over everything and it certainly does so in the death penalty. So dear friends kumi, thank you for mentioning the the death penalty event in Brussels indeed It will be taking place end of February until the 1st of March I am grateful for your call for people to participate and I have to say as a final point This is a remarkable topic a very important one and a very important event here in the UN But I I almost constantly have this the feeling when when I participate in death penalty events that we are preaching to the converted I don't know what the way out of this is we seem to always recognize this and then every panel seems to make the same mistake Not mistake the same inability to bring more people in The Kenya does have the best value. So it's very important that in fact your rhetoric what you are describing can Reach the broader society I would have loved to hear from you how it is that it is possible you think that the results of your study might resonate in The society in a society that still retains the penalty and whether or not it is possible to change hearts and minds through that kind of science that kind of evidence Whether or not more needs to be done to appeal to the hearts and minds of people. I just don't know but I hope I do hope that in Brussels in February will be able to Have in the room to be debate with us people from from countries that that Retain and sadly happily Happily they're much fewer than they ever before but sadly some of them proudly Advocate the penalty. I would like to ask people who implement death penalty and are proud about it to tell me if in Their countries they have any statistics about how many poor people are on death row And if the statistics in their country are as in other countries Highlight how poverty gets you to death if they are proud about that, too I would like to be able to have a discussion about those those those facts with people who disagree with me and on Just with those who do thank you Thank you very much. I Note Deputy Foreign Minister of Ukraine represent Ukraine the deputy foreign minister Today Ukraine is a part of a death penalty free zone covering 47 European countries and over 800 to 20 million people We carried out our our last execution in 1997 and legally Forbid it prohibited death penalty in 2000 And it was a council Europe that played a key role in ensuring that Ukraine abolished capital punishment However today in the context of our discussion, I would like to speak about the special circumstances and I Would like to bring into our discussion the aspect of the women's rights Unfortunately women continue to earn considerably less than men Women who make up half of our population still earn On average 16% less than men across the European Union 25% less than men in Ukraine and an average gap of 33% remains to be closed worldwide According to you and women it will take about 170 years To close a gender pay gap around the world completely Women are poorer more hungry and more decent Discriminate discriminated against the men according to the UN reports turning promises into action gender equality in the 2013 agenda for sustainable development the reports Authors also surveyed national laws around the world and found that women are more likely to face legalized discrimination as a result women in a Are it a disadvantage from the very beginning in cases of death sentences? In fact, they are suffering from multiple discrimination quite often being a woman being a poor woman being a poor woman from a religious or ethnic minority not to mention that gender stereotypes stigma harmful and patriarchal cultural norms and gender-based violence has an adverse impact on the Ability of women to get legal aid and her right to a fair trial in particular When they are facing death penalty So I invite and I call upon the participants of this discussion to incorporate the women's situation In general. Thank you Thank you, Mr. President. I am a trial radio From the National Commission of Human Rights of Cote d'Ivoire. I wish to thank first all the panelists To thank the European Union and the United Nations for the efforts made to fight against the penalty my country Cote d'Ivoire has Hosted and its territory the Assembly General in order to push a certain number of countries to definitely abolish the death penalty and today when we When we talk about this the countries that refuse to abolish the death penalty there are two there are two elements that need to be taken into account There's the fact that these countries are not really democratic democracies a way of Integrating this in their legal framework It's an element to marginalize opponents also We propose That the fight against the death penalty becomes part of a condition To help certain countries. I take the example for instance of European Union and Belarusia In order for countries to access the help of the European Union Why not put that as a condition thirdly? I think there's It is important to insist that all countries around the world who wish to participate in this evaluation on human rights and They should be should be fighting against the death penalty. I think that if we do that and we We will be able to convince certain countries who have not yet abolished the death penalty So way of making them aware. So it there's also the thing of legal aid legal aid There should be a fund for legal aid Certain countries don't know about it and code the war we mobilize people so that the fund for legal aid is known by everyone and That people can have money to finance All the women who are on death row or other people who unfortunately are in death row So the challenge today For us in terms of recommendations is that there should be an important fund In order to assist all the vulnerable people like women children and poor people So these are the proposed decisions. I wish to make and I wish to encourage the countries who are still Hesitate to abolish the death penalty Thank you. Je suis les directeurs and CPM together against the death penalty ensemble contre la peine de mort Who is the organizer of the World Congress against the death penalty will take place in Brussels? Next February has already mentioned. I Will take the I will take the opposite line on say some popular beliefs in my words First of all about the public opinions the public opinions are not unilaterally and Immediately in favor of the death penalty always public opinion Have follows follows a decision of their government follows a leadership of their government second argument is the death penalty is an addition of discriminations and The first discrimination that has been showed during the by the panelist was that death penalty is enough unfair sentences Apply to poor people and the most vulnerable The poverty links with death penalty are not even to prove anymore This is obvious third argument is Human being is not perfect. I Think that everybody's agreed with that and the failure of every every justice system Leads always to unfair trial and to a break in the rule of law and to and it leads to have innocent people executed in 2016 60 people have been exonerated in the world killing to show that Killing is wrong Is wrong and make us only killers The death penalty do not protect societies to crimes But even reinforce the idea that violence is the only answer to violence and the endless of the of this violence cycle Linked to the previous argument Death penalty is not deterrent Death penalty do not prevent crimes If I take the last world safest countries ranked Upon the 21st safest countries in the world only two are retentionist 90% of the 20 of the 21st countries are abolitionists in law. I think that is important things to remind to everybody Death penalty last but not least is a Damocles word upon the prisoners That's why we cannot be satisfied by moratorium situation and I call all countries who follow a moratorium to to move on toward abolition and I I Welcome the great move from Burkina Faso in the in 2017 this year 2018 and the the project of constitutionalization of the abolition There is a train to catch for many countries the train of the abolition because abolition is now universal other abolition is a new universal fight like before that before slavery fight against slavery or fight against torture Please take the train catch the train and that's why I invite all the UN members to come to the World Congress against death penalty in February To dialogue to discuss about the potential potential steps because it is by with a dialogue that we can move and With a dialogue with countries who retain the death penalty So everybody are invited for in the in Brussels to the Congress organized by my organization With the support of the government of Belgium, Switzerland and the European Union. Thank you Thank you Raphael the next three speakers will be Spain Gentlemen who's been feeling and then thirdly the Holy See. Thank you chair Let me bring to your attention a case that will remind you the case of mr. Ola to shiny the difference being that it is still ongoing And by the way, I have I should have introduced myself I'm Marcos going with ID director general for United Nations and human rights at the Spanish Minister for affairs Pablo Ibar is a Spanish citizen who was accused of a triple murder in Florida in 1994 He could not afford an appropriate legal counsel He was sentenced to the death penalty in 2000. He has spent now 18 years in the death row Pablo Ibar would have been executed a long time ago But there was a crowdfunding campaign in Spain together with the support of my government It allowed him to hire new lawyers to challenge this sentence And he has gained the right to a retrial that is due now in October And these are simple as that as professor Austin said In some countries in some systems you have the money you can challenge the court and you can survive You don't have the money you get executed There is something fundamentally wrong about this state of affairs But here we are preaching to the converted. I believe that our duty is to think hard on how to reach out to those governments and to those societies that Still support the death penalty and this is why I'm so grateful to the organizers of this event Because even even those who believe against all evidence that the death penalty discourages crime Even those who think that killing a criminal somehow compensates his or her victims And even those who believe again against all evidence that justice systems are infallible and will never execute innocence Even all of them must acknowledge The fact that the application of the death penalty is disproportionately biased against the poor So here we have an argument of fairness That we must use and that I hope will sway some minds towards our ultimate goal That is to abolish this unjust and cruel form of punishment And you can count of course on on Spain in order to to achieve this goal. Thank you very much Thank you very much, sir. Thank you. Mr. Gilmer. My name is Selwas from the Indonesian mission I have one questions, but let me begin by Congratulating the convener for organizing such an important debate on the relationship between the death penalty poverty and the right to legal representations at the sidelines of high-level week of the UNGA Indeed these topics on the issue of poverty the right to legal representations or access to justice in general is also part of our national discourse in Indonesia and we are we are Proud that our vibrant society has also making this as a central theme With regards to the fulfillment of the sustainable development goals. We indeed put emphasis on the addressing of poverty and also I would like to make reference to the Insightful presentations by a representative of the Amnesty International Congratulation sir for your appointment as the new secretary general of the Amnesty Internationals Indeed the the case that you make reference about the Eustman case is actually an exemplary case where how a vibrant human rights group Society as well as the availability of legal framework for access to justice is actually working in Indonesia And also it is actually the case where all levels of judicials have to Make sure that attainment of basic access to justice is being insert the Eustman case is particularly Particularly to be noted because it is It's a case where there's an autocorrections by the Supreme Court to the to the district court to rectify the the legal facts and then the legal circumstances as well and My question is that since there were some discussions about that migrants are prone to that penalty How about the situations for example in Where migrants are not because before we even venture to To protect migrants From their vulnerability to the penalty I think the first question would be how to ensure that migrants are protected indeed in situations of vulnerabilities from their basic access to Their basic basic access to protections in foreign countries. I think there will be One of the highlights of Global discourse on Migrations as well. Thank you Thank you very much indeed the Holy See. Thank you chair I am pleased to take part in this high-level side event on The death penalty poverty and the right to legal representation And to add the voice of the Holy See to that of an increasing number of states Supporting the UN's long-standing sponsorship for the abolition of the death penalty I would like also to commend the organizers of this meeting OHCHR Italy Brazil Burkina Faso France and Timor-Leste for the selected topic ensure equal access to justice for all Especially for those affected by poverty social and economic inequalities as well as those who are facing possible execution as Is well known in the last century the Holy See has consistently sought the abolition of the death penalty And in the last decades this position has become more clearly articulated In fact 20 years ago the issue was framed within the proper ethical context of Defending the inviolable life dignity of the human person and the role of the legitimate authority To defend in a just manner the common good of society Considering the practical circumstances found in most states as a result of steady improvements in the Organization of peanut the penal system It appears evident nowadays that means others than the death penalty are sufficient to defend human lives Against an aggressor and to protect public order and the safety of persons For that reason public authority must limit itself to such means Because they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity To the dignity of the human person Pope Francis has further emphasized that the legislative and judicial Practices of the state authority must always be guided by the primacy of the human of human life and the dignity of the human person He has cautioned that there is the possibility of judicial error and the use made by totalitarian and dictatorial regimes as a Means of suppressing political dissidents or of persecuting religious and cultural minorities Thus respect for the dignity of every human person and the common good are the two pillars on which the Holy See has developed its position This is exactly what the new version of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the death penalty highlights When it states that the Catholic Church teaches in the light of the gospel that the death penalty is Inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviability and dignity of the person and she works with determination for its abolition worldwide The universal abolition of the death penalty would be a courageous Reformation of the belief that humankind can be successful in dealing with crime and of our Refusal to succumb to despair before evil acts offering the criminal a chance to reform And I thank you for your attention. Thank you very much Santigedio has asked for the floor Assistant secretary general honorable ministers and distinguished guests and Mauro Garofalo from the international relation of the community of Santigedio I would like very very briefly to congratulate with the Italian government for the organization of this high-level meeting and as well as with with the Burkina Faso government for the Recent abolition of the death penalty We we truly believe that a comprehensive approach in this advocacy to the abolition of the death penalty and to support the moratorium Is crucial? This is why Santigedio has carried out a number of activities Both at grassroot level and official level I would only briefly Underline that since 10 years Santigedio has provided a particular tool to the to support the moratorium at human level Which is the national the International Congress of Ministers of Justice that gathers Dozens of ministers of justice both from retention in country countries and abolitionist country for confidential meetings in Italy This year again We will celebrate this Congress in November to celebrate the national day The international day against the death penalty at the end of November the 30th of November with the support of the Italian Foreign Ministry with the support of the sweet the Switzerland government and the Organization international de la francophonie. I think that this tool which is made of of course public forum public confrontation and institutional meetings is also made of Confidential meeting in which Abolitionist country retentionist countries and the fact to abolitionist country can confront themselves can discuss to To made up some strategies to to support the moratorium. Thank you so much Thank you very much if nobody from the floor Which is to say anything I will ask the panelists to Sorry madam Thank you so much for this very encouraging and hopeful session I am the original where and I represent the light millennium organization and we are associated with the DPI This is really one of the most hopeful session and I congratulate and I coined distinguished representatives for undertaking this session all is taken considered my concern our question is We see Despite all of this wonderful session and ideas and sport and Projections towards the near future to total elimination of the death penalty, but we see on the other hand that On the highest level on the national level in different countries. It is rising mentioning Advocacy promotion of the death penalty That's kind of Conflicting what it's been said and put out here Therefore in this I'd like to actually if possible Get mr. Aston's opinion that What leads to this rising in some countries towards the death penalty and Have the even though Officially, it's not there yet, but it's kind of putting On the public agenda Towards to encouraging people supporting people getting support by the people to approve that So what should be done in between and what is your opinion on that? Thank you so much. I appreciate the panelists now If they would like to add anything to what was said Okay, last intervention from the floor Okay Thank you so much to the European Union and Italy for this event. My name is Naomi. I'm from Nigeria My question goes to end of May You were a victim at the a at a very young age and I was wondering if You had young people or other people standing up for you if any other if something could be done differently So my question is how could young people be involved in putting an end to it the executions because young people Have the highest population right now in the world and I feel if we are able to harness the potentials of young people in Advocating for such things we would have you know more results coming up from other countries seeing that we are the future of the world So I really want to know from you What suggestions you have for young people since you were a victim at a young age? And what do you think would have been done differently at that time from your peers if they had a say and if we are given a say to They as young people to to make a difference in this area Thank you, that's an excellent question actually and then it goes straight to what I wanted to do now It's for the panelists to speak but I actually hope maybe the other panelists might also have a good answering that question too Yeah, thanks for the question. I would say I would say first off. We need to educate young people You know because I I do work with young people across this country and had the opportunity to even speak to some outside this country and I think that I Think that is what I said earlier knowledge knowledge compels us to do the right thing That's not to say everybody will do it, but I think that when we educate young people About not only the deaf plenty, but all these other social economic issues that surround the deaf plenty I Think that I think that you know They would be you wouldn't have to tell them you wouldn't have to get them You know somehow some instructions to To go out and do something about it I mean obviously you would want to I mean if you got something that you want them to be engaged And you could tell them about that, but I'm such a strong believer in the idea that once we know something once we once we had information and young people I think too often that You know, we don't get young people credit You know for they understand it once they know something I think that But I think education is the thing I think that if you educate young people about what's happening around them They you know, they would be compelled by their truth I think that certainly there's a lot of different ways that we can you know engage with young people like For me I engage with young people around art for instance while I was sitting on death row I actually taught myself how to paint and and became an artist and it was through my art in A lot of ways that my life was saved and so one of the ways that I engage with young people is like I said Trying to educate them about this the particular issues that's happening that's happening around them and You know do it to art. I mean I Think it's a lot of a lot of Ways specific ways that you could engage with them But I think the most important thing is not only for young people for Everybody alike is educate them about what's actually happening around them when it comes to this issue of the deaf Because it ain't I mean you ain't got to be a rocket scientist Particularly those people coming from these marginalized communities they living with it every day And so I think the thing that I would say to you and everybody here Go out and engage and talk to young people about About the issue and and I have to believe that they're going to be compared by that truth Thank you and do me Philip any final words from you Thanks Andrew just to say but I think to point to the point that do me made about the Horrors or the inhumanity of a lot of criminal justice systems. It's not just the Death row phenomenon. I've visited hundreds of prisoners on death row around the world In my capacity as special rapporteur and one of the things that one sees is that The inhumanity of the death penalty Actually then tends to justify all of the other indignities that are inflicted certainly upon those who are Convicted of capital crimes, but more generally so the entire criminal justice system is degraded Two other very quick points. One is we haven't really talked on this panel about legal representation At all But it's very important. I think to note the general trajectory of that right In so many countries there have been enormous reductions in the sort of funding that is made available by governments and certainly others For legal representation not just for the death penalty, but for other extremely serious crimes And this is again an enormous step away so the final message for me is that To the extent that we're focusing on poverty We absolutely need to embrace the concept of economic and social rights because without that Poverty doesn't have the same stigma attached to it and we're never going to really be able to Persuade people that because poverty itself is a travesty of justice It's made doubly bad if it's then linked to the death penalty Thanks I'll speak to Somebody raised an issue that Where there's the death penalty still exists the issue of government-led initiatives In Kenya the government is way ahead of his people in the sense that Since 1987 We've had a moratorium on the death You know on the death penalty But the office of the High Commissioner in Nairobi are carried out a savvy in conjunction with with the Department of Justice and They were very shocked that majority About 58% of the people wanted more offenses to fetch the death penalty in Kenya and I think it's cause The government hasn't put anyone to death and we have more violent Crimes including terrorism So in Kenya the government is ahead of its of its population but I think also recognizing this issue of What legal aid means in Kenya we have a definition of access to justice as the ability of the people particularly from poor and Disadvantaged groups to seek and obtain a remedy through formal or informal justice systems In accordance with the human rights principles and standards and therefore this includes Getting legal advice and awareness legal representation in assistance provision of legal information and law-related education and Under taking law reform and advocacy on behalf of the community Thank you. I want to address my comments in Dume Yesterday I had the honor of representing civil society at the Mandela Peace Summit and I Just want to say to you that Like Mandela you spend 27 years in prison Like Mandela you come out with such a sense of dignity such a sense of purpose and I want to say Thank you. Thank you very very much for making yourself available to be a voice to Raphael and the Coalition it's in English is to gather against the death penalty and try not to say it in French because I might butcher the French language in the process I would suggest to you my brother very humbly Let's invite in Dume to be the chief guest of honor at this World Congress against death penalty Next year in Belgium and let's honor him there Let me just say that I think The key issue here is the issue of how do we work with the general public? And I think you Raffael did a good job of listing a range of very simple reasons that Communicate better than some of the ways we sometimes try to approach how we communicate to the general public in somewhat too legalistic Language and so on. I think we need to find more popular ways to talk about this so that for example in Kenya or in South Africa, by the way, South Africa as Philip said, you know, that was one of the first decisions that the constitutional court led on but Probably if you take public opinion, it's not necessarily I Wouldn't give it as a given that 50% of the people or more Actually supports the decision of the constitutional court. And so I think we still have and we must be honest with ourselves We still have a lot of work to do to educate our global public But the important thing is that the when leadership of governments Opportunistically make Statements particularly leadership of political parties seeking to get elected Offered this as some solution That is what contaminates the public debate including some of the most Powerful politicians in the world including in the very country that we find ourselves in at the moment. Thank you very much Well, thank you all fellow panellists and indeed the Co-sponsors and and everyone who spoke today. This has been an extremely Fruitful discussion people always say that at the end of meetings often not very honestly this one. However, it really truly was a fruitful discussion I'm I think obviously the link was pretty clear to everybody between poverty and the death penalty, but it's utterly irrefutable and I suppose nothing more than this shows the utter iniquity and Inequity of the death penalty and we'll be taking this forward We have the world day the day against death penalty on the 10th of October Throughout the rest of this year the 70th anniversary of the no declaration and then this meeting in Brussels We which Raphael and Kumi have been speaking about Of course, I mean as I said while we recognize this several Lamborghinis was quite right to draw attention to the fact that death penalty events Tend to preach to the converted although it's very good to have people Even one or two who aren't converted, but still we need to get beyond that conundrum How to get it beyond our it's so obvious to us without this time we are I Mentioned positive trends of them at the beginning But we are still witnessing a movement in some countries for increasing death penalty for for drug offenses and indeed Terrorism and there are some countries that are now talking about it where they hadn't been doing so before Anyway, we will be Putting up and it will be doing a detailed summary of this event and we'll be putting up on our website Oh, it'll be the under the New York office for those who wanted it'll take a few days and it will feature strongly the extraordinary testimony of Indomie I I've never said this before. I think it was one of the most powerful interventions I've seen heard in my life and And I'm glad Kumi also believes that this should be showcased and Indomie's Incredibly compelling Evidence and testimony needs to be heard by many others. So a big thank you to everybody I will be taking this forward. There's a lot more to do as a number of you have pointed out. So thank you