 Hi, ydw i'n gweld i'r ysgolwyd yn bwysigol. Mae'r ysgolwyd yn cael ei gydag i'r ysgolwyd yma i'ch gael ei ddweud. Yn ystod 5, ac yn ystod yma, mae'n 7 deisembu 2022. Yn y sgolwyd, rydym yn ei ddweud o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ysgolwyd yn yw'r ysgolwyd, o'r ysgolwyd, o'r ysgolwyd, o'r ysgolwyd, o'r ysgolwyd. Mae'n meddwl ychydig o'r ffordd o'r gael ei ddweud i'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ysgolwyd yn ymwysigol. A fyddech chi'n gwybod i ddweud o'r cyllideg a maen nhw ymlaen i'r ysgolwyd yn ymddangos ei gael ysgolwyd. Yn ystod, mae'n rhaid i'r cerddau am bocdan Marinesgw i gydag i gael i ddweud o'r wneud. Yn ystod, dyma'r cerddau i'n gweithio ar gyfer i'r webcarau, am ychydig yw'n ziwethaf yn bwg dangos bod ni'n gweld iawn. Dyna'r ffaith yn ymgyrchai a'r gymfyngu cyfriedgrif wych yn eithaf digital. Fy fwy ffaith digital yn bwg... Dio, mae'n fwy ffaith yn bwg pa mi'n ei wnaeth ceisio felly o'n gwneud gennym ar hyn byddai bod ni'n gweld iawn. Ac gallwn yw'n gwneud hynny, ac mae angen pan yw'n bwg o bwg hyffin gennym, ac tyde'n coffin am hynny'n diddy. Here's just a bit of a brief intro to Bogdan. Bogdan is an experienced strategic communicator, public relations, reputation management. He also specialises in content marketing. He's worked both inside and agency side with companies ranging from small, local to medium-sized enterprise and also some global corporations as well. He's got real breadth of knowledge across different sectors and different-sized organisations. His expertise spans across medical, pharmaceutical, insurance, financial services and higher education. Bogdan studied in Leeds in the UK where he picked up a MA in public relations and communications. He also spent some time studying in Bamberg in Germany and also in Messina, Italy, where he gained a BA in translating and interpreting between German, Italian and English. Thankfully, we're going to be talking in English and I hope we don't dip into German and Italian because I certainly will be lost at that point. Now Bogdan tends to spend most of his working life travelling the globe. He's a bit of a digital nomad currently splitting his time mainly between Amsterdam, Sicily and Romania where he was born. His company, Digital Trails, have headquarters in London, Amsterdam, Barcelona and his team is made up of experts in public relations, journalism, reputation management, SEO, marketing, design and development and probably more as well. Strategically, that team is placed all over Europe and North America and other regions too and that helps serve the customers and the clients that he has in those regions. Before we welcome Bogdan, as usual, we're going to open up a session for questions for you guys at tuning in live. To do that, simply hover over the question mark on your screen and feel free to drop questions in there. Feel free to ask anything and we'll do our best to get those answered and don't hold back either because questions are anonymous, so please do get anything in there that you wanted to have answered. Also throughout the session there will be a QR code that keeps popping up. That QR code is a link to the marketing club, that's the CIM marketing club and the reason why we pop that in there is because maybe you've enjoyed this session or previous sessions and you want to get a little bit more content. We'll actually, using that QR code, simply take your smartphone or your smart device and hover over that and that takes you to the registration page. Registration is free, so there's no reason why you shouldn't tune into that and you get lots of cool free insight to whether that would be technical insights or sort of latest trends in marketing as well, so yeah, check in, get that sorted out. If you don't manage to grab it now, don't worry about it, we will pop that up later on for you to have a look at. I'm going to welcome Bogdan now, so hopefully he is around. Hi Bogdan, how are you doing? Very good, thank you. Thank you very much for having me as a guest today and thank you very much for everyone who's tuning in. Hopefully I can bring some value to attendees today. I'm sure you will. I probably didn't do a great job of doing an introduction to what you do, but you've got a very enviable set of expertise and certainly the way that you operate as an organisation. Is there anything that you wanted to add to that? I think you've covered pretty much everything. If you look at my background and my career, what I think we managed to do is turn something erratic into a defined narrative, so as you said I have experience from when I was born in Romania and emigrated to Italy where I finished my high school then I did my BA then went to study in Germany and then Leeds ended up eventually in London, Luxembourg and then Amsterdam, so quite a hectic path if you look at the individual moments in time and again that kind of work together to build a narrative and to build a career path that has turned out to now being digital trails and doing the work I'm doing. And I'm from Leeds so probably being in Leeds was no doubt the best part of your travels. Amazing. I was in Heading Leeds, it was an amazing place. Leeds was an amazing city place. Really, really, really good. Very good platform for what I studied and then what I ended up doing for work. Excellent, excellent. We won't touch on that too much. So first of all I'm going to kick off with a bit of a few questions and then hopefully we'll start to get some through from those that are tuning in as well. So the first one was about around being authentic and in particular I wanted to know what that means for your employees, especially if they're looking to problem solve, innovate or create uniqueness around their own personal brand. So is there anything that you can talk about in terms of experiences around being authentic for your employees? I think for us a lot of authenticity comes from being transparent and I know everyone's heard this a thousand times, thinking outside of the box. So if you have a novel way of doing things or if you think something should be done in a different way, being transparent and being open and bringing that to the table creates authenticity and creates innovation and creates and fosters an environment where we can discuss about problems and bring everyone's point of view on board in order to change or to innovate. So I think that transparency is very, very important for us. We're always looking at different points of view and always looking at getting out of the old ways of doing things and getting on board a variety of different points of view so we can evolve in that sense. So in order to be able to do that, I think transparency and having that confidence of bringing your ideas to the table, knowing that there's no such thing as a bad idea, creates that level of authenticity that we're after. OK, cool. So I talked to a lot of students who are yet to step into the world of work and I know when I was younger, I certainly wanted to emulate people so do you see that in your experiences from some of the people that you take on and I'm making an assumption here, do you take grads on? Do you take people that are quite early on in their careers? We do and obviously we have a training programme in place where we train grads and train employees that are at the very beginning of their careers which is even more important now because we're in an either hybrid or fully remote working environment. So it's a little bit different compared to what it used to be a few years ago when grads would come into the office and then move from one department to another and then they would learn by seeing and by looking and by being in contact with people. Now, oftentimes that's not the case anymore. The case is that a lot of people are working from home or working from shared offices or simply going to the office maybe once a week or once a month or twice a month. So it's a bit more difficult to train which makes it more important to highlight some traits that we think are going to make great professionals within especially our business or at least in the kind of remote working environment. So we're a bit more careful at identifying those traits that will create brilliant professionals and put those professionals on a path for success. Okay, so on that basis then, if someone were to set foot into your organisation from day one there's no such thing as being perfect. I've tried to do it and I always weigh off the mark. So if you're talking about those traits and those transferable capabilities could you name maybe the top three or five that you would expect an employee to come arrive to your organisation with? Yeah, of course. First of all, we don't expect anyone, whether they have experience or they don't have experience is to know how everything works. So I think having that level of curiosity and openness to ask questions is very important. From how tech works to how meetings work to where to save things to where to write things down or take notes, being in a position to and feeling at ease to ask questions is a very, very important thing. It's very difficult to work in environments where everyone nods yes and everyone says that they've understood anything and that's not really the case. So we're really looking for people to be curious and to flag things that they don't understand or that they need help with. That also allows us to understand that there's a genuine interest from that person to know how things work. That would be one main thing. It's also very important to show initiative to a certain degree. So it doesn't really matter necessarily that we may hire in junior position somebody that doesn't have experience. That doesn't mean they don't have initiative and oftentimes that's more important than having experience. So having potential, I'm sure you will have heard this a thousand times, having potential oftentimes is more important than having the experience because the experience is basically just a bullet point of different jobs and roles that you've covered throughout your career history. But showing initiative means that you can actually be trained easier, quicker and more efficiently into a role that you're going to cover. So that can come in a thousand ways from having started a blog to having done volunteering work to anything really that shows a level of initiative that gives an employer the confidence to know that you're potentially very suited for that role. If not from an experience standpoint at least from a potential standpoint. And then another very important thing for us is something that we put a lot of attention on and I'm sure it's the same for other businesses as well is the ability to be organised. And this is very important, especially as we work from home or as we work remotely. The ability to manage your own schedule and prioritise is very important for us and I don't necessarily expect everyone to have that on day one but the expectation is that when somebody feels overwhelmed they reach out for help from somebody within the business to help them organise better. These I would say are very important skills for us to have. OK, perfect, thank you. So, one thing that struck me is that clearly your organisation has to be creative in the sense that you're problem-solving for your clients, right? So, and that's no different to a lot of modern organisations these days. We hear about problem-solving and being creative. One thing I hear a lot is that being creative is something that can be taught, can't be taught. It is quite challenging. Then the second thing really I was thinking about specifically with your organisation where you've got people from all over the world working with you and working for you from different cultures, different societal backgrounds as well and presumably there are differences in that sphere when you're working on a project as a group. So, could you talk a little bit about some of the experiences in that space, particularly about how creativity comes about and whether there's a... having a diverse workforce is useful? Yeah, of course. I think creativity can... you can have creativity in a variety of different forms. You can have a creative marketing campaign. You can have a creative image for social media or you can have a creative way of tackling a problem or you can have a creative way of responding to a client, for example. And creativity often comes from, for us at least, we try to foster an environment, a collaborative working environment where we don't really have a traditional hierarchy so we have a very flat hierarchy where I'm the managing director of the business and the founder and I'll often be part of brainstorms with everyone else within the business or we'll go into meetings around certain campaigns and projects for clients and deliverables. So it's very important for us to feel that everyone has access to everyone from the graduate joining us now to the managing director so we have this collaborative working environment where people are encouraged to ask questions and to work in a collaborative way. Even more so, when we have multicultural teams and international teams, when everyone feels that they're working in a collaborative environment they start to let go of those barriers where people often think, I'm not going to speak my mind because I'm going to say something bad or I'm going to be judged or my point or my opinion is not going to be taken into account. It's very important to foster that concept that no idea is a bad idea, no contribution is a bad contribution. Creativity starts from fostering a collaborative working environment and then taking on board different points of view. So it may be that the way we do things in the UK are completely different to the way things are done in Italy or Spain or France or the Netherlands or any other country. The idea is to prompt and to fish for different ways of doing things and different points of view so we can incorporate that creatively into the way we do things. And that also creates a sense of appreciation within the team, for example, where somebody may have thought that their contribution wouldn't have been valued but we always find a way to incorporate it in a creative way of doing things. So actually for us having a multicultural team is an asset. The important thing for us is to manage to make everyone feel at ease so that everyone can contribute with that or different points of view into creative ways of solving problems. Sure, I guess organisations would pay lots of money to have and build their own creative teams and do, and that's why they presumably come to you because you're offering that uniqueness and you're able to bring that cultural and societal differences that's specific to those markets. So we're getting some questions in now which is good. And the couple of questions that I wanted to put together around job interviews and somebody's asking also about personal brand so we can sort of touch on that as well because that in a way is kind of leads you to get a job interview or certainly leads you to get to a point where people are interested in you and want to understand more about you. So somebody is asking what's your personal brand what does that mean to you? This is actually a good explanation. Your personal brand for me from my point of view is a highly valuable intangible asset. It's something that takes weeks and months and years to build and it's something that can open a thousand doors if managed properly. So if you think about, especially in the current environment where everyone is a Google search everyone is a LinkedIn profile everyone is a social media profile a blog post so we're a lot of the content that we produce and a lot of people get to know us through that. It's actually very timely that you brought up this slide but if you look on the left hand side that's what a typical Google search page looks like you've got your ads and then your organic results and you've got a variety of links you've got video carrier cells you've got a variety of different features and on the right hand side is the search results you get if you type in Bolton Marinascu and digital trails. Ideally this is what a this is what an ideal first page of Google looks like and that's if somebody makes the efforts of I'm not saying necessarily that for everyone it needs to be like this but if you're making an effort to influence that to a certain degree again that goes back to showing initiative and making an effort to control or to influence what people see about you online. This is very very important because the first thing especially when you go into into a job the first thing that employers are going to do is they're going to look you up online so they're going to drop your name in Google they're going to drop your name on LinkedIn they're going to look you up on Twitter and they may or may not be inclined to take you on board based on what they find. So that's why personal branding for me is paramount we do this type of work for clients for enterprise level clients for C-suite executives but also for brands and products but more and more we realise how important this is at an individual level so if somebody sends us a CV this is the first step that anyone will do before they decide whether to invite that person to an interview or not so just to answer your question that some branding is paramount and I think everyone should be should focus on an ongoing basis to manage theirs because not having one can be fairly or not having a curated one can be detrimental to reaching your objectives. And that can be done in different ways there's LinkedIn profiles I notice you have your own blog which is talks about you and it's that narrative around your story so absolutely there are lots of different ways you can cut that I guess do what fits the sector or the industry or the type of work that you're willing to move into. Yeah but also for example this may not be a priority if you're a student if you're going into if you're starting your career right now right but you can always go and buy a domain with it'sname.com It'll cost you 10 pounds a year to have it to own it and you can just build a page in Wix or WordPress that doesn't cost you anything you put up a page with your experience, your CV and it's just a window onto yourself basically that ends up ranking in search so it doesn't need to be high efforts if it can be high yields and low efforts but there are some tips that you can do just to make sure that you secure those assets and use them when you need them. For example if you look at the first result it's my LinkedIn profile but the second one is just a simple page with my name and a bit of blurb on myself and what I do it doesn't necessarily require a lot of effort for me to maintain it or to manage it but it's there and it ranks in my name so again that shows to me if I were to see this from somebody else it shows of initiative and also knowledge around how things work and interest in investing efforts into this brand equity that is highly valuable. Cool, ok perfect so I've got a question around a few people are sort of touching on this but I think what they're saying is they're starting to get into the interview world and it's a scary place I don't know about you but they've had several knockbacks interviews but that's because that can come in different ways you can aim for something that perhaps is a big step or perhaps it's new to you and you might be a career changer as well so I suppose a question that might be useful for the things that are coming in and please help me with this is what sort of tips can you give somebody in that space whether they're starting to interview and they've had some knockbacks and I don't know the specifics of that but if they're a graduate what sort of things can they do to make them stand out a little bit? Again these are tips that I'm sure you've heard over and over again but come prepared to an interview know who you're interviewing with the company that you're interviewing with but also the person that's doing the interview take a little bit of time to check them out on LinkedIn google them, see if they write anything if they contribute to any blogs get to know them a little bit I'm always of the opinion that ideally when you go for an interview go for one and do it well rather than going for 20 and doing them so and so so always prep well for that one interview make sure that you research the company and the person that you're interviewing with and make that come across in the interview because that's very important a lot of times I do I interview people that come unprepared and that's easy to understand in the first 5 or 10 minutes and my expectation to a certain degree is that people come unprepared because that's my experience with most of them at least so if you're able to surprise me and show me that you've come prepared already that's a browning point if you see what I mean because I'm not expecting it because most of them don't so it's very easy to stand out from that point of view just spend half an hour or an hour researching the company and the person that is interviewing you and then try to understand what they want from you so for example I'll just give you an example if you're going for an account for a rolling client services let's say where you're required to work with clients understand their pain points to understand what their problems are and to give advice then you have to understand that one of the key traits that somebody is looking for in the interview is your ability to listen so if all you do is talk in an interview then that's a trait that somebody is looking out for for that specific role you will have already failed that test if you will so these are the small little things that you need to try to understand from a job description to make sure that you deliver what you're expected to deliver based on that role so it's very very important and generally speaking it's asked for feedback so when you finish an interview always go back and obviously get in touch with a person who's interviewed you and ask when you'll learn more about about how the interview went but also ask for feedback and I suppose another very very important thing is always think that somebody interviewing you will want to know what you can do for the company not what the company can do for you as a first point of course so I've had a lot of interviews where obviously we ask people to ask questions to interview and a lot of questions or some of the questions that have unsuccessful interviews have been around what the company can do for them before they've proven that they can do something for the company interviewing them so always try to remember that you're trying to convince somebody to give you a job and you're trying to convince somebody that you're an asset to that team and you're going to bring value to that team so focus on what you can bring to the company and focus on what the company can give you in exchange brilliant and I guess it's not just about having the technical capability but people employ people and you know that's I know that quite often when I've done interviews or interviewing other people they tend to overlook the personality and the behaviors that you're looking for and that is absolutely vital in a world now where people are really keen to align what their working life looks like with their core values and their interests so absolutely do your homework and don't just think about being the best technical person in the room but actually being a cool person or being yourself or bringing something unique in that space as well Yeah and a lot of people I have experience with a lot of people that just blast out 100 CVs to 100 companies hoping that something will fall through the net and unfortunately the problem with that approach is that as you said there's no background work to make sure that that aligns with your core values and that will come up in an interview so it's best to pick your battles and pick five companies that you want to work with make sure you tailor your approach to those five companies and make sure you stand out in that interview process because if you're just firing CVs away and thinking that something's going to fall through the net eventually the problem will emerge so I remember when I came out of the university at Leesermet I wanted to go into PR and I thought I have two options there are 100 agencies in Leeds so I can put together a CV and just blast it out to 10 or to 100 and just hope that somebody will give me an interview and I decided to go a different way I created a CV in Adobe Illustrator I had no idea how to use the tool but I created, I spent a week or two designing this CV in Adobe Illustrator and then I picked my top five agencies and then I picked the first and I tailored my message to them I read their blog, I read their websites and I got in touch with them with a funny tongue-in-cheek cover letter email attaching my CV and I said okay these guys don't come back to me I'm going to go to the second and the third and the fourth but that's it I'm not going to send it out to 100 they came back to me the same day they invited me for an interview the day after I think two weeks after that so I sent one CV and I got the job but it did take me a month of work to put together the CV in Adobe Illustrator to stand out, to study them and then to send them those emails I think that approach commitment and loyalty and interest and curiosity is not that easy to come across these days so if you can demonstrate that to an employer it's very likely to give you a high success rate in getting that dream job and it's a really interesting point I've talked about this before in other webinars where if you just do the numbers game and you're just trying to get an interview or a job with anybody if something comes off it's highly unlikely that that company and the role is going to be suited to you and you're probably going to be unhappy and wrong in any way and be looking for a job soon after that so do completely echo what you're saying there do your research and you select who you want to work with as much as they select who they employ so somebody asked a really good question which is probably something that most people ask in an interview actually, I've been spending a lot of time on interviews here which is fine, hopefully we're helping people progress through that period of their lives and it's about can you give an example of a weakness and I know people tend to think, how do you put a positive spin on that and a common one that people use is I'm a perfectionist because it's neither a weakness nor a strength and lends itself to both worlds and I guess going back to that sort of being yourself and having a personal brand is there something that people can do in that space because nobody wants to talk themselves down in an interview? No, but the reality is that the reality is that we're all imperfect nobody's perfect and we all have weaknesses the when somebody in an interview asks you about a weakness they don't necessarily want to know your weakness they want to know how you're addressing that weakness so oftentimes let's say you're bad at fine management or you're bad at some other thing as long as you have identified that problem and are working to solve it ie let's say you say you're bad at time management I said look in the past one of my weaknesses has been not being highly organised however that bothered me and I realised that could have been a could have been a problem in my career so I started using Trello for example to better organise my life or to better organise my work or I started to take notes or write things down or set reminders so what we're really wanting to know is not what your weaknesses are but how you're attacking them what initiatives are you taking to make sure that you're actually solving a problem because problems will appear continuously we're interested in knowing are you the right person or can you demonstrate initiative in solving those problems and having the self-awareness because if you do think you're perfect and it's glaringly obvious that you're not fit for that organisation then if you don't have a self-awareness then that can be damaging as well but generally everyone's I think employers are looking for a growth mindset and that means accepting that nobody's perfect identifying the biggest problems and then trying to find ways to fix them whether you do this on your own or ask for help that growth mindset of wanting to improve is at the heart of everything because that helps you grow in a role that helps you develop in your career that helps you learn new things adapt to new challenges and that's critical in my opinion Agreed and sticking on that growth bit in a slightly different context somebody's asking how do you start your business from scratch and do that? Was it organic and were there any external factors like investments or did you find other ways of funding that as a startup So the main thing that I had was support from my wife which is a very important thing support in general from friends and family and people around you is paramount so there are two ways of starting your business one is starting in bootstrapped so no investment from outside you only invest your own money if you have it or you grow organically or you take outside investment we didn't take outside investment we grew organically and we were bootstrapped and to do that you need to have the support of people around you because you may not generate revenue you may not be able to pay the bills for a while so you need to have either your parents or friends or your partner support you in that initial phase and then have a plan obviously so that was in my situation it was paramount I was an employee the last time I was an employee and then I was working I was waking up at 6 o'clock in the morning putting in a couple of hours of work to launch the business and then I was going home and putting another two or three hours in the evening so I was doing a full-time job and then working on the side in the morning and in the evenings to get it off the ground until I had a lucky break we had the first client the first big projects and I made the leap but in order for me to make that leap I needed to have the support and that's very important when you do it unless you can afford to not have it but most of us most of us I'm afraid can't afford to not have it and if you're looking to have that support then obviously definitely lean on that that there are alternatives and I suppose this depends where you are in the world and probably the stage of you are in your life as well and the size of investment but there is support for startups as well so don't be disheartened if you don't have that network as well No absolutely not so if you're especially depending on what you want to do there are a variety of different preceding incubators that will kind of mentor you bring you on board work with you for a few months get you up to speed with everything that you need to learn about branding, financials products pricing it's very little maybe the investment is £500 or £700 to get in one of these programs sometimes they're free so you go through a process that will also eventually potentially help you find investors so there are a variety of different free ways that you can do this even as you wear full time Okay excellent and just remind me what's the size of your organisation now in terms of the number of employees so we we have a slightly well it used to be a novel approach when we launched four years ago but now it's kind of more and more organisations implemented so we have full time staff and then a variety of in market specialist that are project based or freelance but all in all when we look at the entire organisation we're I think a hundred plus now Okay Excellent and how quickly did that happen four years just a little over four years Okay impressive stuff Excellent We're getting lots of questions about interviews again and somebody's asking about career changes here as well and it looks like they're doing the right thing they're investing time in a CRM qualification I would say that but I guess that gives them the standing You've got experience of somebody that's been through a CRM call as well right? Yeah Go on In terms of career changes I think marketing is not medicine at the end of the day so it's something you can learn at different stages in your life also because it's a never changing career and it's a never changing discipline What we call marketing today is different to what marketing was 15 years ago or 30 or 40 years ago and it's constantly evolving based on the type of media consumption that we use the type of social media company that we start using We didn't have TikTok marketing five years ago we have TikTok marketing now so it's constantly evolving there's no wrong time to go into marketing but you do have to have some sort of formal training as you said Johnny because it's important to go through what's hot in marketing in that in a specific moment in time so if you do want to change your career it's useful to make sure that you have some sort of formal training in marketing because everything changes very quickly and then it's I would say it's a fairly easy kind of career to get into or an easier discipline to get into compared to engineering or medicine or something else or law Sure and is that career changer that's looking to make that step into marketing is that attractive to you as an employer and if so what aspects of that is attractive It depends very much what your background is so we have had interns within the company that wanted to understand if marketing was for them so they used to do a three month placement with us and they were coming from let's say accounting or they were coming from law or a variety of different disciplines and within marketing you've got commercial marketing you've got brand marketing, you've got digital marketing so again a variety of different types of marketing so you can take some of your transferable skills for example if you're used to doing auditing or if you're working finance you can be very good at certain in certain areas of marketing you just need to make sure that there's some sort of continuity between your previous experience and the type of marketing that you want to go into but it's definitely attractive we're always looking for it, it goes back to that concept of looking outside the box thinking outside the box what transferable skills can somebody from a different industry bring into marketing and what different points of view can they bring into marketing so that's always exciting and welcomed for an employer I guess that storytelling and creating a narrative is around the personal brand and if you're making a leap into a different world in terms of your career then tell that story, talk about what's driving you to do that and it's going back to the point earlier people buy people and if you can communicate that successfully then I'm sure you'll be attractive to somebody if not more so getting down to the skills aspect now somebody's asking around particular exercises and I'm sorry I'm throwing you in the deep end here but to improve things like communication and presentation skills is there anything that you've had to do in that space or have you always been blessed with being able to communicate well? No by all means, no well one I was very lucky and I would I would hope everyone goes through this but I used to be a waiter and a bartender and it's not the most glamorous job if you think about it but in terms of teaching you to deal with difficult characters or difficult situations or being a mediator or being working on your customer service approach that did a lot to me in terms of helping me communicate well with people, listen try to find solutions to problems try to be a mediator in conversations for example so if you can do any type of work that highlights that and enhances that whether that's charity work or any type of work that puts you in contact with the public whether that's a call centre summer job or whatever it is being able to rehearse that being able to find yourself in situations where you need to apply that can come very can be very useful then in the future with the presentations for us my background is in public relations so you have to understand that the first time I went into my role I was given a press release and a phone and told to pitch that press release to a journalist at the times so I picked up the phone and I called up the journalist and I was reading out from this press release and trying to pitch the story and then the journalist asked me how does this fit in my column and I had no idea because I hadn't done the prep work so I got bruised and battered and I learned from it and from then on I always rehearsed and I always tried to make sure that I knew the narrative and the story that I was telling before I picked up the phone so rehearsing helps a lot to organise your thoughts and to make sure that you're pausing between concepts and between certain things that you want to say and generally speaking I hope that everyone gets the opportunity to feel empowered in jobs they do where they're not just asked to do menial tasks but also help everyone's given a bit more responsibility for example with us we ask everyone to put together presentations or slides for meetings and it's not because we want to burden them with the necessity of having to put together five slides but it's just to improve their presentation skills through time so rehearsal I would say is very important Yeah good answers and I would also say particularly on the presentation side if you are your audience understand who you're talking to first and nine times out of ten if you're going into an interview then you'll know who's going to be there on occasions you might do presentations where you're not familiar with everybody but if you get the opportunity try and familiarise yourself with the surroundings whether that be a physical space but also if it's a virtual thing and you have the tools and the platforms and everything that you're using because you'll get more nervous if something goes wrong and you haven't been able to overcome that okay so it looks like questions are coming to a close on that one unless any more to come through what I'm going to do is talk about what's coming up in the next session and if any more questions come through I've got a little bit of time just to take those but just to reiterate also something I touched on in the opening is that if you want to check out what we're doing today again or if there are any additional webinars that you might want to check in to gain some more insights I'm sure there's lots of information here and people might find it valuable to watch again you can do that by checking into the QR code is on screen there and again it's free so why not do it you can always drop out if it doesn't quite fit your needs or expectations additionally there's a back catalogue of CIM webinars as well and they can be found on the playlist particularly if you drop into the CIM YouTube channel as well so the next session of Boost Your Employability I'm going to be chatting with a guy who's an expert marketer called Tyler Lawrence I'm going to be talking to him about his role in various kind of careers but also touching on the B2B and the B2C side of that and you can see the details on the screen there so I suppose at this point all I'd like to say is thank you very much both to everybody tuning in especially to Bogdan I really enjoyed that discussion I hope everybody tuning in did really grateful to have you on there and hopefully you got some real good insights there and finally just like to say thank you very much for listening and goodbye have a good rest of the day Thank you everyone