 And we're live. Back again to talk about French fries. Shrimp. The Suez Canal. Oh. What? No. None of these subjects. None of these subjects. I heard something about Suez Canal recently. Isn't there a ship stuck in the Suez Canal I know? Yes. There's a ship stuck. Is that what we're talking about? No. Nope. Not talking about that today. We're not going to talk about shrimps found in your cereal. Pee-pee. You spelled button. Buttoon in the buttoon. I hit the go buttoon. Oh my God. I love it. Buttoon. I need to get rid of this light right here so that I can have a better white palette. Are we live? Is that what's happening? I'm orange. Yes. We are live, everyone. Thank you for joining us for another episode of This Week in Science. We are here to talk about science, and this is the live recording of, shoot, the Pierce podcast. Good thing we got all the cursing out in the preamble. Oh, I think my desk just unplugged itself. That's what happened. We're here live to start the show. We're recording the podcast. This stuff is not in the podcast. There may be other stuff that's not in the podcast. None of this is usable. None of this is usable material. This is just the prequel to the podcast, which we shall record. What do you say in just a moment? Like, is it, it's about that time, yeah? Remember when we used to go live, right when we went live? Remember when we would start, we did this before we went on the air, and then we would hit the air with the actual show. Yeah, but you know what happened, Justin, is the lovely people recording our audio would miss the first 10 seconds of the show every single time. Pretty much. 10 minutes in they'd be like, oh, so-and-so, you're crackling or your levels are way higher than somebody else. So this is our lovely minions are testing our equipment for us before we start. So now we're, now we're waiting for people to show up. We're waiting for that. We're waiting for the house to fill in. People are still getting their seats in my balcony here. Getting themselves situated. Do you have a snack? Do you have something to drink? Well, now you're sending, see, now they're all heading to go get refreshments instead of enjoying the show. What do we do now? See, they can take us with them. Because this isn't like a real lobby that they're going to, they can take the- No, it's just my kitchen, which is even worse. They're just going to go raid my fridge while I'm doing the show and can't do anything about it. It's fine. It is fine. Oh, we're getting there. We are getting there eventually. Getting my last shot out. That's the last one. I'm ready to go to sleep now. Okay, we're doing it now. Okay, ready? Ready? Ready? Ready? Drink a cup of coffee or something before the show. Okay, we're going to start this show in three, two, this is twist. This week in science episode number March, number March, no. Start that right over again in three, two, this is twist. This week in science episode number 817 recorded on Wednesday, March 24th, 2021. Let's talk about science. Hey everyone, I'm Dr. Kiki and tonight on the show we are going to fill your head with archaic talk, poop talk, and memories. Okay, but first. Disclaimer, disclaimer, disclaimer. America is getting back to normal. Nowhere is that more clear than with the recent mass shooting in Colorado. Since there are tens of millions more guns than people in the United States, I thought we might start the show off with a few fun gun facts. One, there are around 70 million more guns than people in the United States. About a third of Americans own a gun, which means gun owning Americans are really into owning guns. In 2018, 73% of homicides were committed with firearms, according to the FBI, and about 600,000 violent crimes were committed with a gun being present. While the majority of Americans support stricter gun laws, according to Pew Research folks in a 2019 poll at 60%, that number is highest among women at 64%, who, fun fact, are three times more likely to be murdered with a gun by an intimate partner than by a perfect stranger. That is also reflected in a 2019 study by the American Journal of Preventative Medicine that shows states with the highest gun ownership had 64.6% increased incidence rate of domestic firearm homicide when compared to states with the least. And yes, gun control reduces deaths. Yes, yes they do. If you don't agree with that, it's not because we have differing opinions, it's because you were wrong and have not looked into it. I will go, I'm not going to go through every single state, but I will take you to Guns and Ammo's 2020 Best States for Gun Ownership. That's Guns and Ammo's annual ranking of gun-friendly states. The top five friendly states, Arizona, Idaho, Alaska, Kansas, and Oklahoma, who had a combined average per 100,000 residents of 17.2 deaths by firearm in 2019, according to the CDC, and the worst gun-friendly states that they listed, New York, Hawaii, Massachusetts, New Jersey, and California, had a combined average of 4.6 deaths. So your chances of death by firearm are nearly four times higher in gun-friendly states. Thank you Guns and Ammo, who reminds us that guns don't kill people, it's the bullets that do that, but what good is one without the other? Texas and Florida didn't make the top friendly list, maybe that's because they only have 12.7 deaths per capita, which is still higher than the national average, and four times the rate of the least friendly state of New York City, or excuse me, the state of New York, at 3.9. The end of the day, the gun conversation won't go away, and shows like this that have nothing to do with guns, will be forced to talk about it until meaningful reforms are put in place, and then we can once again focus on the important things, like this weekend's science, coming up next. Good science to you Kiki and Blair. And a good science to you too, Justin Blair and everyone out there. Welcome to another episode of This Week in Science. We are back on our regular Wednesday slot, right in the middle of the week, taking you through the week, getting you over the hump, using science to keep it going. Yes, we've got the energy, we've got the science behind us. Alright everyone, what do we have in store for us today? Well, I have got some vaccines, a vaccine. I've also got some water stories and some brain stories for the end of the show. Justin, what did you bring? Justin's muted. What do I have? Oh no, I did bring stories. Oh thank goodness. A little bit of research into whether or not unions are a good idea to have for labor stuff. There's a very, potentially, big change in the story of Denny Solans. At least a very interesting indication there that something odd is going on. There's a something maybe taking toxoplasmic gondii off the hook for some of the ailments that have been attributed to it. Well. Possibly. Possibly. As Grubhub is apparently like 3,000 years old. What? Delivery. People have been getting food deliveries for a while. Did they charge insane delivery fees then too? Probably. He's like alright here's $30 in food, that'll be $65. 3,000 years ago it would have been more like that'll be 10 sheep please. Yes, exactly. The whole extra sheep for delivery this is ridiculous. Actually you know what, I'm not going to give away the whole story. Don't give it away, we're going to talk about it later. Sorry, but you're probably right because it happens in a bronze mine. Alright, now I'm more curious. Blair, tell us about the animal corner. Oh, you know just a little sprinkling of fish poop over here. Got some honey bee wings over here and then I got some baby bonobos just to put on top of that little recipe. It's like a Wednesday Sunday. Yeah, well I guess the baby bonobo would be the base and then you'd sprinkle it with the fish poop and the bee wings but it's fine, we'll figure it out. Alright, honey bees and fairy dust all over the place and bonobos in the mix. Okay, we have so many great stories popping off for you tonight. Let's, nope, we can't dive into it yet because first I need to tell you that if you're not yet subscribed you can subscribe to us on YouTube, on Facebook. You can find us on Twitch at Twist Science. We are also all places that podcasts are found because you know what, this is a podcast. Subscribe and get us weekly. And you can get to our website at twist.org where all of our show notes are found. Oh, so many good things, but now it's time for the science. Yes. Alright, so let's dive in. I have got a story to top. To what your whistle? Well, because this Monday was World Water Day. Water is very important as Blair takes a sip of water. Yes, water. Water, water. Alright, so a couple of studies this week are out one in nature looking into the complex movements of global ocean currents. And they've discovered and published in nature that summertime, in the summertime there are increases in upper ocean stratification and mixed layer depth. So what that means is that there's more layers being layered and the stuff that's cold that is really nutritious because that's where everything drops to when it all dies that that stuff is not getting mixed enough. Things aren't mixing the right way. But the end take-home message of this study is that the ocean dynamics are calming down and that they have been on a trend of less mixing, more stratification, just the dynamics that make the ocean and our climate sustainable are on a downward trend. So, not good news. This works, in their words, this work calls for reconsideration of the drivers of ongoing shifts in marine primary production and reveals stark changes in the world's upper ocean over the past five decades. So primary production, very important primary production is the, those are the microbes, these are the small organisms that lead to oxygen production that we depend on. This is the food sources for other life in the oceans, for birds, for so many of the things that we depend upon. And then the second study that goes right in line with that was published in the Journal of Experimental Biology this week and was about copepods, little tiny crustaceans in the ocean that apparently, if we were to total, some total, the mass of all the copepods in the ocean, it would be the equivalent of a trillion human beings. Massive, I had no idea, copepods were so prolific and they are very important, those primary producers. They are involved in definitely the ocean food web and they play a huge role in global ocean cycles, also freshwater cycles as well. Researchers say that many organisms, breathing oxygen, eating phytoplankting and producing waste is a major driver in how the ocean carbon cycle works. Despite their tiny individual size, they have a huge impact on the ecosystem. And then what they actually discovered in the study though is a huge question about their ecology that researchers have been trying to discover for a very long time. What makes them congregate? Copepods come together and congregate in these little clumps in the water, these little groupings. And the question is, what led them to come together? How did they come together? And apparently, based on this study, they synthesized, they in the lab created these little tiny, like an inch in diameter, little tiny vortices in the water. And they discovered that the copepods are attracted to the forces of these vortices, these spinning tiny whirlpools on the surface of the water. So the aggregation of copepods in what the researcher calls a well-mixed homogenous ocean depends on these vortices. The vortices, they aggregate around them. And previous research using mathematical models suggested these processes could explain a whole bunch of phenomena of ocean life, why different things mix and why organisms behave certain ways. But the researchers go on to say people use this kind of concept to explain a lot about how ocean processes work, but nobody's ever really seen it. And you couldn't really study them because they come and go into existence. They're transient, they're tiny, and they just exist. They pop into existence and the copepods love them. And so now they're making them in the laboratory so they can study more about these little copepods. But how are the vortices going to be affected by these larger oceanic trends? And I think that putting the large and the small scale together is where this really starts to get interesting. Well, the changing ocean temperatures move currents around and of course that's going to change all sorts of fluid dynamics and there's going to be all sorts of changes there. The other thing that's really cool about copepods is they're made up of these little plates, right? And so you can actually look through just an insane amount of time in evolutionary history and in geologic history. If you do ocean cores, you can see very, very old samples of copepods and you can see how they changed in shape and structure over time with the pH of the ocean. So that's the other thing that happens with copepods is they're affected by ocean acidification and you can see how their little plates move around. It's very cool. That is really cool, yeah. So copepods may be very indicative of ocean health and definitely worth understanding why they behave a certain way and how changes to ocean cycles could affect those behaviors. For sure, yeah. Justin, what'd you get there? Okay, I got unions fighting for benefits of workers. That was once a very commonplace thing in America. They've been on the decline in the public, or the private sector, I guess, for years, mainly due to sort of sustained anti-union, grubber political campaign that has stripped unions of much of their power. They also tend to lose power whenever economies dip or whenever we have a series of off-shoring events for manufacturing that's been taking place over here. So they've been sort of beaten up by a lot of things. Despite that, polls show that majority Americans still support the idea of having unions. The loss of them has reduced collective bargaining to the lowest level we've ever had, or at least since the 1950s, I guess, and has allowed wages to stagnate for the majority of the working class. The main argument against unionized labor has traditionally been that unions, aside from being made up of communists who threaten national security with strikes, they also hinder economic growth. They reduce economic growth in the area, which is interesting because the height of the mid-50s, it was more than a third of Americans, American workers were part of some form of a union, and the economy was booming at the time. And I don't really recall a rating of the capital by the Red-Pinco Army of American workers. That just sounds like more trickle-down economics theory. You have to give the people the top money you can't deprive them of money by paying people in the middle and the bottom well, because then you'll never see it. Actually, it's the other way around. Those people will spend it pretty much immediately. And actually, not necessarily. If we're talking about the working class that had unions, they could actually save money, own homes. That's spending money, buying a home. Spend money, but they wouldn't have to spend all of it. You mean driving the economy? Nowadays, they spend all of it, and the economy doesn't grow. Because, okay, anyway. Okay, this is according to Cornell University, though. Cornell University. Are unions good for the economy? Yes, yes they are. Union-friendly states enjoy higher economic growth and greater individual earnings. They win on both fronts. Paper assembled bodies of all counties throughout the United States and found labor returns. That's how much money people earn from work. Are highest in states with higher unionization and lower in states where government legislation has been crafted to be anti-union or in corporate interest or seem to limit people's ability to join unions. Mildred Warner, professor of city and regional planning at Cornell University, shows that states with laws designed to hinder union activity have not enhanced the economic productivity of their states. We find that where state policy is captured by corporate interests, this undermines inclusive growth, Warner says. These interests see union and city power even. So even their even laws, local government, state governments are making against cities from having power over work laws. Interest to union and city power is a threat, which is why there are groups focused on crafting state laws that erode labor protections and enhance corporate interest. So it's a long standing sort of movement that is anti-union in much of the country, especially in the south, which is sort of interesting because in the south it sort of made sense economically at one point to kind of be anti-union because they were getting, that was the first outsourcing location in the United States. Big union areas that had these worker protection laws and labor laws moved a lot of their companies to the south because they could get people to work very cheaply and didn't have regulations. And then eventually they figured they found somebody else who could do it cheaper and they left the south. But they're still anti-union in the south is still kind of ridiculous because it didn't protect their jobs either. Anyway, yeah, they found basically that thing that it's one of those tropes you hear that unions reduce the effectiveness of growth and they stagnate growth and they do all these terrible. It's actually not true. States in the United States that are heavily unionized or more unionized, the most unionized have the most growth and the most earnings. States that are anti-union and have enacted anti-union legislation have the least growth and the least earnings. There it is. Seems to be straightforward. I could tell you I was in a union. I wasn't in a union. And when I wasn't in a union, the banks were making a lot of money off of me because I was pretty much only paying interest on all my credit cards. Yeah, it's the thing that's really, that's rough about not being in a union is if you're in the middle, then the people at the bottom get bumped up with minimum wage increases. And you don't move at all. And again, I'm not a big fan of minimum wage. I think you have to handle the housing issue before you do a minimum wage. Otherwise, all that money just goes to housing increases because they just go up faster. But I will say, I find it very hard to hold in my head the idea that somebody could be anti-union and pro-corporate at the same time. Because ultimately what a corporation is is a bunch of people working together for a common good of the company. And the union is just a company of labor that's doing the same thing. I'm not against corporations having a bunch of people work together to make the company better and more profitable. Fine. How can you be before that and at the same time against labor unions doing that with the other part of the company? It's all in the spin. It's all in who the money is being made for. Well, it is. And that's who has the voice. The laws that have been passed, I think it's Taft Hartley that made it difficult for unions to give money to political campaigns. Corporations now have unlimited ability. So there's a problem that needs to get fixed and the direction that our country went is obviously not working. Understatement. Understatement. I'll be the last one tonight. No, no, there will be more. It's not going to be the understatement of the century or even the night. There could be more. That's another understatement. Blair. Yaaas. Next story. I just want to talk about fish poop and corals. So corals, they're having a tough go. As we know, they're bleaching. The water is getting hotter. People's sunscreen are covering them up. Ships are scraping on them. People are dredging. There's lots going on with corals and they're in trouble, right? We know that. But one of the things that are perceived as a threat to corals as well are coral predators. Because we talk all the time about multiple stressors, right? If you're an animal or a plant or anything that's alive, you can take a certain number of stressors. But at a certain point, it's too many. So even though a predator might be a natural stressor, if you add it on top of other things, it could be problematic, right? So like this is one of the things that we're going to talk about. We're also going to talk about coral reefs. Also having coral predators, there was a concern there that that's going to be extra stress on corals that are already struggling to survive. And corals are the backbone of the ocean in a lot of way. They're creating oxygen for everything living in it. And us also, hello. But anyway, so bottom line is they found that the coral predators poop was actually beneficial to coral. They were jam-packed with living symbiotic algae that the corals used for survival. They had the zooxantholy in the poop, which of course I'm reading this and I'm going, well, yeah, duh, they were eating the coral. They were eating the coral, right? So you have the fish eating the coral, getting the zooxantholy, then pooping them back out again and fertilizing the coral with the same Yes. So I think the thing that's especially interesting is that it's still alive and able to see the coral. So it makes it through their digestive system and there's this opportunity to reseed the coral. So the kind of wild thing here is this thing that's eating the corals is actually potentially helping to keep them alive and of course if they bleach then fish poop could then provide a new culture of algae for the coral. So having coral predators around when they bleach could also be beneficial. Another question of how do baby corals that settle on the reef floor get their original kind of seed of algae? Well, this could be how. Just fish poop. And so they might actually, these fish might be kind of pollinating all these different coral reefs because at first I'm thinking, okay yeah, they're eating the coral. They're pooping the zooxantholy back out. Oh, how nice of them. Great, thanks. I'll take that back now. Are you done with this? But it's more than that. They could be pollinating and affecting the overall kind of the micro biome of the corals. Yeah. So it's how do the microorganisms originally get there? And how do they kind of pollinate around the ocean? How is this all connected? And so it's definitely just raises more questions. But ultimately this is a very, you know what else it reminded me of too is my sourdough starter. I just made another loaf of sourdough today but what do I do before I make sourdough? You split? I feed it. Yeah. And then I let it sit for a day and then I pour some out and then a week later I feed it again. So it's almost like it's seeding itself. Like these coral predators are running around eating all this coral and then pooping out the symbionts and then like it's a self-sustaining thing. It's like a mother-dough. It is. The mother coral. Yeah. Which then like where did the first where did the first symbiotic algae come from? Did it come from fish poop? Or did it come from coral before the fish ate? Which came first? Did the predatory fish come after or before? So yeah. Yeah, it's really tough to tell with a lot of like also with a lot of parasites that have just an mundane life cycle that requires two other living creatures to facilitate it. At this point there's no going back. There's no changing strategies. You're not just symbiotic. You're just stuck. You were really locked in. But at some point it was probably just a little path of least resistance. Oh this worked. This is easy. Oh hey! Look at this. I can work with this too. And then over time you specialize to be even better at it. So predatory fish are part of the picture of healthy coral. There you go. Coral predatory. I mean I wouldn't think of them as predatory, but yes. Well they're alive. They're alive. Coral are animals. They're not like grazing. They move around. Don't get me! From now on I'm going to think of deer wandering the glade predating the plants. That would only work if the grass went whoop! I know. Yeah. Maybe. Okay. Alright. Well if only we could do the same thing with brain cancer. If only just whoop! Just hide it away. Get the brain cells make them okay. Well what if we could what if we could vaccinate people against brain cancer? Yeah! Gleomas, astrocytomas, brain cancers are known to be some of the most devastating deadly cancers and to be able to treat them would be just amazing. Researchers in Germany have just completed the, these are Heidelberg University Hospital have just completed the first trial. 33 newly diagnosed glioma patients for a specific peptide vaccine that is a peptide against a single mutation that is common among all of these brain spreading dispersal, dispersed and spreading brain cancers. The researchers found that in these 33 patients at different centers in Germany not controlled, so this is just a first trial to see how well it was tolerated and how and whether or not there was something worth doing further study on several years ago they had discovered this mutation and the peptide created a synthetic peptide and used it successfully in mice. That led to this study now in human patients and the researchers found in 93% of the patients the immune system showed a specific response to the vaccine peptide regardless of the genetic background. They also discovered three years later the survival rate was 84% in the fully vaccinated patients, 63% of patients tumor growth had not progressed during the three year period and a total of 82% had no tumor progression within the three year period. This is among the patients whose immune system showed a specific response to the vaccines. This will lead to a further placebo controlled study to actually be able to draw conclusions but these data are very promising in that there are just in Germany alone over 5,000 people diagnosed every year 1,200 are diffuse gliomas with this specific mutation. That's just in Germany, 1,200 people who could potentially be helped by a vaccine, a peptide vaccine. Give me all the shots right? So I mean you don't a normal genotype without the mutation you're not going to need this shot but if you, and this is what where this study is interesting is these are newly diagnosed patients. So these are people who they know they have the mutation they've been diagnosed with the brain tumor they had a large percentage of reduced growth, stopped growth and survival within the vaccinated group. So it's very interesting, very interesting. And if you could at some point catch people before they're diagnosed based on the genetic mutation then that potentially would be much more interesting and could could stave off the issues that come with simply being diagnosed. You know get rid of the period leading up to diagnosis even knowing that a lot of this does run in families mutations do pop up so I don't know genotyping? Is this lead in that direction? Get yourself genotyped every once in a while once a year, get your blood type, get your hormone levels genotype. Oops got a mutation. Take all of my blood. Is it modern medicine? Put vaccines in its place. Modern medicine, I will take it. Give me it all. Give me it all. Yeah I thought this one was pretty exciting. Got another story Justin? Oh yeah so this is a quote from Research Associate from University of Adelaide, Dr Joao Tashara Whichever way you choose to look at it exciting times lie ahead in paleoanthropology. Tashara is a lead researcher on a paper from an international group of researchers. They did comprehensive genetic analysis focused on detecting signatures that might suggest interpreting from deeply divergent species known from the fossil record of the area of island southwest Asia. Island southwest Asia comprises this is the tropical island area between mainland east Asia and Taiwan in the northwestern part down through Australia and New Guinea it's out into I think even the Philippines as part of this Archaic humans in that region they are referring to are Homo erectus, Homo Florianus, that's the Hobbit Homo Luzanensis which we haven't talked about Luzanensis much here on the show yet there from the Philippines but that's another short-statured hominin kind of like the Hobbit but has very different morphologies than the Hobbit or Homo erectus so it's another mystery hominin Homo Florianus and Homo Luzanensis are known to have survived to approximately 60,000 years ago Homo erectus maybe 108,000 years ago which means to some extent they may have overlapped with the arrival of modern humans into that region the results of the study showed no evidence of interbreeding wait what? none, none, no result no result the researchers did however find further evidence of our mystery's ancestor cousin ancient somewhat ancestorish cousin side shared ancestor the Denise events and in fact they think it could be that there's a major discovery that's going to come from this region because there was a lot of Denisovan DNA in contrast with our other cousins which have an extensive fossil record in Europe, Denisovans are known almost solely from the DNA record the only physical evidence we have of them has been a finger bone in some other fragments found in a cave in Siberia more recently a piece of jaw found on the Tibetan Plateau this is like pretty far from where they're finding this really big hit of Denisovan ancestry in populations we know from our own genetic records that Denisovans mixed with modern humans who came out of Africa 30 to 60,000 years ago both in Asia and as the modern humans moved through island southeast Asia on their way to Australia the levels of Denisovan DNA and contemporary populations indicate that significant interbreeding happened in island southeast Asia the mystery then remains why haven't they found any remains they have they have not found a fossil alongside other ancient humans in the region and so they're questioning whether or not they need to re-examine the existing fossil record in that area to consider if they have other possibilities that they're finding other than what they've accounted them for so they want to look over all the fossils that have come out of that region and make sure they haven't just been missing Denisovan in plain sight co-author Chris Stringer National History Museum in London adds, while the known fossils of Homo erectus, Homo florensis, Homo lucinensis might seem to be in the right place in time to represent the mysterious southern Denisovans their ancestors were likely to have been in island southeast Asia at least 700,000 years ago we found hobbits that old so that doesn't seem to jive with the timeline of Denisovans and Neanderthals having sort of coexisted for a long period of time in sort of Eastern Europe Northern Siberia type regions co-author Chris Heldian Chief Scientist and Director of the Australian Museum Research Institute said this research also illuminates a pattern of megafaunal survival which coincides with known areas of pre-modern human occupation as part of the world large animals that survive today in the region include the Komodo dragon the Babarusa some sort of a pig it's like a pig with it says upturned tusks and the Tamera and a Anous wild buffalo no idea this sense that long-term exposure to hunting pressures by ancient humans might have facilitated survival of the megafaunal species in the subsequent contacts with more modern humans the idea being if there were hominins there for 700,000 years the megafauna that survived also learned to stay away from humans whereas when people got to Australia and New Guinea they didn't have hominins running around there and weren't at all afraid of humans 50,000 years ago and this became a big stink Dr. T'Chara goes on this research corroborates previous studies that Denisovans were an island of Southeast Asia and that modern humans did not interbreed with more divergent human groups in the region but this opens to equally exciting possibilities either major discoveries on the way or we need to re-evaluate the current fossil record of island Southeast Asia one of the things I also thought was sort of interesting is like I'm not sure how do we have homofloransis DNA I don't think that we do if we have bones wouldn't we potentially have DNA? potentially but I'm gonna have to someone in the chat room Jon Marano brings up that humans burned corpses in that part of the world so maybe these humanoids did as well but I'm just thinking about how hot fires have to be to burn bone and get rid of bone to completely get rid of bone yeah there's usually bone left over and it might just be it's humid, it's warm it's the wrong place to try to be preserving human bones, you want cold and dry to be there for long it's moist it's very moist but the idea is that I'm not sure how well we understand the morphology of the denizens I'm not sure we really know what we're looking for quite yet we have a finger bone and a bit of a mandible and that's kinda it I trust the science and I trust the scientists but it never ceases to baffle me how a finger bone could be an entire species because they did get DNA from it ah they did get DNA from that finger which is they thought was gonna be neanderthal and just wasn't just really wasn't and that brings up the question then how many how many fossils are Denisovan but been misidentified how many fossils are sitting in a drawer sitting in a box in a basement in a university or a museum either not even identified yet or misidentified and you know there's a treasure trove that has not yet been discovered somewhere potentially I know that they're working for a completely different reason specifically for like fish and game and customs detectives they're working on what is basically a uh rapid DNA scanner so that if somebody says like oh no no no these cowboy boots are cow they could be like oh really beep says it's sea turtle you're going to jail um so they could do that right that's the idea behind this rapid DNA scanner and so it would be great to just take one of those down into a museum basement just beep beep just check everything is the DNA that they said it was the bone won't have it but I think there might be an easier way I mean the bone might have you might be able to drill in it might be some preserved DNA somewhere in there I don't know if this quick scanner would work idea but I think one thing they could do is look at the teeth yep there's this there's this wayer who's considered an Asian phenom to have an occasional uh three rooted molar this sort of weird uh and it turns out that's a denisovan trait this is also in the denisovan mandible so they now think that this so yeah you gotta start looking at teeth and see if that's a thing uh going like if these showed up in some sort of other archaic humans you might want to look there there's a there's a but but my question I was getting at that was I wonder if just because we found a couple finger bone like the finger bone and first found it in Siberia in our Altai cave and so now that's where they are and so they spread everywhere else well maybe not maybe actually they were already there and then these are some of the far flung travelers coming the other direction which raises a bunch of questions but I'm yeah it's not starting to beg the question of did they grow up side by side with neanderthals split for a little while in different pockets and then of isolation and recombine or did they take a completely different path I think this is the interesting question right how did the stream braid we know it's a braided stream but how did it braid was it like a fishtail was it like french braid so this reminds me of another thing with animals which is a ring species I want to say we've talked about this on the show before but this is my favorite example of a species is the california tiger salamander so basically from from like far far far northern california like healdsburg mendicino county sort of area all the way down to like well past the central valley there are tiger salamanders but if you take one from the top and you take one from the bottom of the range they cannot interbreed but if you take ones in neighboring areas they can't so they are all these subspecies they're only subspecies because they interbreed but if you take them from different ends they're so far different if you just looked at those two you'd think they were distinct species because they can't interbreed right what if hominids are a ring species yeah could be I love that and yeah wow yes why not there so I mean yes little tribes moving and potentially slightly differentiating over time because of the time it takes to move and get to different places that's yeah fascinating love it Blair maybe I like it I think that's a fascinating idea I don't see why not but still rated stream but speaking of archaic humans yeah oh no there's a whole lot of people who are alive today who believe archaic ideas don't like to learn about new ideas like to believe things that aren't necessarily true we like misinformation potentially researchers publishing in nature this week with a paper that's called vaccination strategies against COVID-19 and the diffusion of anti-vaccination views modeled different different strategies of vaccination and also different strategies of information spread with the idea that information and misinformation spread easily and when people are exposed to misinformation they're likely to believe it if it's from a trusted source and so there's a probability of misinformation spread like anti-vaccine views that can spread and have negative effects on the overall population their results show that even if anti-vaccine narratives have a small persuasiveness very tiny not very many people actually get convinced but a large part of the population gets exposed to them rapidly it's kind of like the virus itself if individuals this is their assumption that individuals are equally likely to adopt anti-vaccine views which I think is a questionable assumption because I don't think people are equally likely but they're assuming this after they've been exposed they have what's called a central nodes network and in a central node network there are individuals who are more highly connected than others they're like the hub of a wheel and these central nodes are more exposed to these views than other people and so based on their modeling they suggest that that informed and very specific communication campaigns can be used and targeted toward these central node individuals to potentially reduce the amount of spread of the anti-vaccine misinformed views so it's a really interesting mixing of a variety of models here communication models and also viral spread models, vaccine hesitancy and various views in how they come to be but it's a really interesting idea that picking the people who will likely have the most impact on other people because of how well connected they are to inform them may be a really valuable strategy to get informed views to spread faster than misinformation. What you don't want to do is let someone who has a lot to gain from misinformation get a hold of this paper yeah right okay let's go for all the hubs we're going but that's sort of already what you're doing that's what they're doing and part of the thing is if you're offering somebody who's positioned a platform of followers for instance if an anti-vax came to me and it's like Justin I know you're very influential in your audience and this week in science I would like you to start talking anti-vax stuff I'm like one I would lose my audience most importantly because I don't want to lose you all I have and two I take a hike like go away like I don't believe you obviously that's why I'm doing this so you'll be reaching out to the people who have the most to lose of their network of who that they've gathered around to influence and why they look to them as an influence is they reinforcing the thing that they want you to think is the thing you want somebody to say so that you can believe it out loud that's a uphill I don't know that's a little uphill Kevin Unique in the chat room is saying society defines the trusted source we have institutions we established to be focused on a subject and not on the whim of an idiot and the CDC is one example of that and so we have trusted institutional sources where information can come from and they can also we we can also use those sources to be able to go the opposite direction find the trusted hubs what are the communities that we want to address who are the people that we need to talk to to have that influence and how can we talk to them how can we start to have those conversations I don't think you do anymore I think you do exactly what Facebook and Twitter started doing it's not a free speech thing when it comes to public health it's the equivalent of yelling fire but see that so that's it that's like a broad strokes like we're talking about social media we're talking about these very public forums but what I'm talking about is finding ways to approach these individuals not necessarily or maybe approach them on social media but have conversations that are less public find ways to have conversations that are more personal that they are not combative from the start because they are immediately in the combat arena right it's like there are some people who go to social media because they're going to do combat they have their view and they're gonna profess it out there you're not gonna have a conversation there but you have to find a way to get around that I think the other kind of piece that I feel like is I don't know is being glossed over but I think it's kind of speaking to what you're saying of like you can't assume that everyone is as easily influenced as everyone else I think it also really matters what they hear first because the whole essence of confirmation bias and that also that's how you know we're talking about something separate from social media but a lot of the time people get their initial impressions from social media and social media kind of feeds off of that confirmation bias and the algorithm works on that so I think it also really depends what they hear first and you can get through some of the nonsense but it's a lot it's kind of like digging a hole with a spoon it's kind of like taking one of those little ships and trying to dig that ship that's in the Suez canal out of its predicament wait there's a ship stuck in the Suez canal call Lassie what yeah no I do feel like Flipper's really the right animal sidekick for that job come on it is it is except we need a freshwater flipper I'm not trying to brag at all but I will say that I have convinced dolphins don't care saltwater freshwater dolphins don't care they're good and awake come on I think I have convinced five people to take the vaccine to have read something online that said it was going to make them infertile or that it wasn't tested enough or any sort of thing there was a shock value to it it was hard to get past and it didn't take one conversation it took like ten and I think that's what I mean by digging a hole with a spoon is that it's possible but it takes time and effort much more if they've had that initial touch point of the misinformation it really is it's relationship based it's trust based where is the information coming from sometimes it's world of influences I'm thinking about about this whole situation and how we how we reach out and talk to people about different things and yeah it's hard we've gotten into this everybody's got an opinion hot take it's always got to have an opinion you want to go viral in a good way I guess you want to be that shrimp tail in a cereal box don't talk about it don't talk about it so everybody wanted to go viral and then there was a pandemic because of social media and that led to people eating shrimp cereal what are you guys talking about that's for the after show after show social media conversation yeah but we can all influence the people around us to a small degree repetition of just seeing things and how it affects us unconsciously and our own confirmation bias is going to be very heavily at play but those long term persistent conversations can really you know you can dig your way out of jail after a while with a plastic spoon with that spork almost every conversation with somebody about gun control reflects what I was talking about in the disclaimer of this show all claim that California has more deaths than any other state even though they have the strongest gun laws and technically that used to be true because we have the most people but one of the lowest rates per capita Texas actually has less population but overtook us in number of deaths and the rate has always been higher and they go oh what about New Hampshire they have no gun laws and the lowest gun death they actually don't they're not the least gun law and they're not the least death they're actually up towards around the middle but they're still up much further above than any of the states that have their gun laws and they're right next to Massachusetts which has the lowest gun deaths and the highest restriction you have to have a license to lose this and I will keep it somewhere safe I promise and I took a class or whatever got registered they have the lowest they have gun control they have proper thought out but every time I've had that conversation I don't know where this source is but New Hampshire and Texas is lower than California come up every single time and it's been wrong for as far back as I can track CDC data it's been wrong but I always get that same Texas and New Hampshire and I was sure I was playing along I never actually looked up the CDC firearms death per capita so you saying Texas and New Hampshire, lower than California even though I have less for sure I always play it oh wow you're absolutely wrong by like magnitude not possible similarly to the gun deaths and gun laws if we are able to get more people to get vaccinated fewer lives will be lost will be better for everyone overall so hey just thinking about that this is This Week in Science thank you for joining us for another episode another Wednesday evening or maybe Saturday for you but hi thank you for joining us we really do appreciate the fact that you're here with us today if you want extra time with TWIS and some friends of ours that's right Daily Tech news show we are having a crossover event the TWIS DTNS crossover science it's like peanut butter and chocolate it's like all the best things it's like Oreo cookie crunch with that white filling it's just amazing it's gonna be so fabulous April 17th put it on your calendars 4pm pacific time it's right 4pm pacific time April 17th TWIS DTNS crossover and what do we want people to do Blair? oh we want them to send us ideas for what to talk about so what is like a nice crossover of you got tech in my science or you got science in my tech and email it to us tweet it to us send it in a whisper it to a butterfly and send it on its way just get us that information and of course listen at the end for all of our contact info thank you for listening alright this week in science is ready oh we're ready right now to turn it over to that special time in the show that lulls us into a sense of happiness and wonder for the natural world it's Blair's Animal Corner with Blair I have two really fun stories tonight they're not scary they're not sad they're just fun so and I'm not I'm not being sarcastic that's just actually true so you're welcome everyone so first I have a lovely story about honey bees and how they find and talk to their queen throughout a colony this is a team of researchers from the US, Japan, Germany and the Netherlands and they work together to report how honey bees communicate throughout the hive they used observational and machine learning techniques to discover how they had this communication so prior research showed honey bees form coherent swarms great that tracks that also means that the members of the swarm have a sort of mechanism for keeping track of what's going on who's doing what where the good stuff is where is the good stuff where is the good stuff where's the good researcher has also research has also suggested that the queen is the hub of this activity she's a lot of the time giving down edicts of what to do and when to do it thus other bees would somehow need to communicate with the queen who's at the center of the hive they might be outside so they did actual observations on 6600 bees they noted activities that would require some sort of communication they observed the bees using high-speed cameras and then replaying the videos that sounds like a very fun job for some inter also they taught a machine learning algorithm to recognize certain behaviors in the swarm and then used its processing power to analyze the behavior around that behavior I guess is the best way to put that so basically they're just like computer figure out if these things are linked so what they found was computer how do bees exactly and computer said what did the computer say they use fanning behaviors with their wings to push pheromones toward other bees so the one closest to the queen are like oh yes this pheromone is telling me to go out and pollinate okay let me just pass that down and they fan that down message from the queen message from the queen what else were we going to do for bees and so then they also found that they actually made a means for synchronizing their behavior so they could fan this pheromone throughout the colony so everybody then is affected by it and everybody's like yes they were essentially doing the wave so they one bee would blow the pheromones to the next who would then blow it to the next so that everybody got the message and the result is a wide communications network with the queen serving as the central hub and I might imagine that the game of telephone this one is more accurate than the one between the boss to the manager to the supervisor to the part-time employee it's probably not as good so anyway this wafting synchronized wafting very effective this is a landmark example of collective behavior what they call it the communication network allows the swarm to remain coherent and this happens even as older members die or are killed and new members join so they don't have to worry about the whole node thing they have everybody's just wafting information throughout the colony so there you go I like the idea that there could be a miscommunication though the queen says we all need to punctuate apparently we haven't been punctuating this is what the queen says proper punctuation okay here we go I will waft it where's the chutes and leaves I haven't heard from the queen lately have you no yeah so bees they're doing the wave to communicate with one another I love that but yes it is something that I think we'll kind of trickle down into other research that we do in any pheromone based kind of social structure do they do this in naked mole rats because they don't have wings or what about termites where they have wings for part of their life cycle but not the whole life cycle and it's during their mating the mating season when they have their wings observation yeah wait to apply the science to find another thing to study already that's why she's the doctor follow what kiki says if you're looking for that thesis you're an entomologist and you haven't quite figured out what am I going to study this is perfect this has got phd written all over it yeah it does really so next we're going to move on to a heartwarming story from bonobos oh bonobos they're too precious they're just too good for us we don't deserve them so scientists have for the first time twice witnessed bonobo aids adopting infants in no way related to them not for the same social group not related so first this might sound like not that interesting because humans do this all the time we adopt completely unrelated babies but let me just ask why? why do we do that? and I'm sure that you could say like oh well you want a family but why? biologically why? because from what we understand about biology we should only want to give such intense parental care that benefits our genetics or our social group or something but in these bonobos they are adopting animals from different social groups pulling them into this new social group and caring for them let me explain a little more because you might have some ideas so it's like Angelina Jolie and her adaptations are straight to it's a matriarchal society sure however in a matriarchal society would you really want to care for an infant especially if you've already done it before would you want to do it again if there was no benefit to you so this is just the question there might be hidden benefits of being a mom in bonobo society possible definitely possible so what they saw here was twice they saw bonobos in the Democratic Republic of Congo in Central Africa adopt these unrelated bonobos from completely different social groups so this research was led by Kyoto University in Japan and they observed a number of bonobo groups over several years they actually let me find the number they have been observing these guys for decades since the 1970s they've been observing this social group so they know each member of this social group intimately and so they've even named them and they know their whole family history which is really beneficial here because they know exactly who's related to whom and what their history before this was was a video who was between 52 and 57 years old who they're pretty sure is post-menopausal was seen to adopt a three-year-old Ruby who had been part of another unknown group so first you're thinking okay great so she can't have a baby so there could be something there but the other one was an 18-year-old bonobo Marie who also adopted a baby that was two and a half years old after that baby's mother disappeared and again this was all in a neighboring group not one of their groups both of these animals had had babies in the past and they had they looked to check if there were any family connections to the adopted infants none they checked to see if there was a social connection between the mothers of these babies none and so they carried groomed, nursed, shared food with and also allowed suckling from both babies so and obviously one of them was post-menopausal so nothing was coming from that it was probably just a comfort right and it's not like the situations where mother animals have lost a child and are in mourning and want to replace the child that they lost and you know we have these odd situations where you'll see cross species suddenly a a tiger will have a monkey baby and you're like what's going on there oh it's a mother tiger lost its infant and something's going on there there's also a crazy hormones telling you you have a baby yeah yeah so yeah those hormones went so post-menopausal that's different completely the hormone profile is going to be totally different totally yes and so again adoption in wild animals has been observed many many many many times but they're always either related to the infants or they will adopt an orphan because they have not had their own baby yet and they're basically just honing skills it's like a practice baby so that helps increase future survival chances of their own offspring in the future that's not the case here so usually you can find some way to easily explain away the mother's interest related to self-interest or pre-existing social relationships and so this is complete cross group adoption and it potentially helps explain adoption among humans because those same benefits aren't seen there and so there's some sort of selfless concern for others or an emotional desire to offer care who doesn't have care there's something special happening here most likely again you know Justin did say there might be some sort of benefit that we're not seeing but you know I feel like since these researchers had spent 50 years with these animals I'm pretty sure if their social ranking changed as a result of this that would have been included right so I think I think that probably is not part of it but yeah it's this is the first time in non-human primates that it has been observed where there's been adoption that has no connection to the mother's it won't be the last the first and the second yeah you're right adoption is a costly behavior in these animals and in humans it is very costly so there there is something to be said for like what is the evolutionary advantage here or are you as a human just ignoring all of the chemical signals your body is telling you I maybe we are at a point where we are ignoring a lot of the chemical signals that our bodies are giving us maybe it's possible yeah and maybe there's a point where it's not chemical signals maybe it is something I mean when it comes down to it it is chemical and neural signals at a certain level but I find it very interesting well and I just like it because like that it's so often we see chimpanzee traits that we're like and it's the warring nasty behavior that chimpanzees have and we see ourselves in that it's just nice sometimes to see ourselves in sweet peaceful loving bonobos and I really like that it's I think it's great and there's it just yeah like you said there's a now that gives an evolutionary perspective to this behavior that we engage in as humans yeah not that we understand it anymore but it's been around a lot longer than we probably thought yeah interesting I like it thank you for the heartwarming we need this we need this warm heart right now and here at This Week in Science we need you thank you for being a part of the show thank you for joining us once again and thank you to those of you who support us on Patreon it's your support that allows us to keep broadcasting week after week we do this show we do need your support so if you are able to head over to patreon.com slash This Week in Science or just go to twist.org click on that Patreon link and then choose your level of support the level of support $10 and over a month you'll get thanked by name at the end of the show if that's what you like if not you know I won't we'll still keep trying to do the show it is helpful to have your support click on that Patreon link we really can't do this without you thank you for your support This is This Week in Science Justin tell me a story okay so researchers have been looking at the connections between different types of infection and neuropsychiatric disease for some time this is a quoting Dr. Aaron Lashnitz faculty member University of Wisconsin first author of the study specifically there has been research suggesting that cat ownership is associated with schizophrenia so there is I think you've reported on that yeah the parasite toxin plasma gondii quoting some more but to date there has been no conclusive evidence to support a positive role for this parasite other than the fact that it does make it through the blood brain barrier it's all correlational anecdotal so we decided to look at another cat associated infectious agent Bartonella to see if there could be a connection so this pilot study pilot study being an initial study like a small scale version of the study is out of North Carolina State University North Carolina at Chapel Hill they found evidence of Bartonella infection in the blood of people with schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder so Bartonella is a bacteria historically associated with the cat scratch disease I think we've talked about that a little bit before on the show which until recently was thought to be a solely short-lived sort of an infection cats can become infected with Bartonella exposure to fleas and potentially ticks which are natural vectors of the bacteria cats are host to at least three known Bartonella species this is more Cody voice this time it's of one of the co-authors Flavio Frolic associate professor of psychiatry at UNC School of Medicine while there is a merging understanding of no psychiatric illnesses such as schizophrenia's disorders of brain networks the question about actual causes remains unanswered it was an exciting opportunity for us at UNC department of psychiatry to team up with leading experts on Bartonella to pursue this innovative idea of a potential link to schizophrenia to our knowledge this is the very first work that examines the potential role of Bartonella and schizophrenia it can't be because we've reported on this before unless we were reporting on other stuff that we had looked at research team enrolled a group of 17 people with stable medically managed schizophrenia or psycho effective disorder and a control group of 13 healthy adults very small sample study to be sure but again pilot study this is the initial look all participants filled out questionnaires and severity of symptoms potential Bartonella exposure blood samples were taken from participants the samples were cultured and growth medium as whole blood samples and underwent qPCR and droplet digital or dvpcr testing at 7, 14, 21 day intervals they looked for evidence of Bartonella organism specific DNA plus blood samples were also tested for Bartonella species specific antibodies this is a very deep look they didn't just put it through a scanner that said yea or nay out of the 17 patients with schizophrenia 12 had Bartonella DNA in their blood of the 13 in the control group only one according to the questionnaires both patients and controls reported similar pet ownership exposures so the qPCR or the dvpcr excuse me was a very new thing that they added to this look according to Dr. Ed Breitschwert Melanie S. Steele the snooze professor of internal medicine at NC State another co-author of the study did not use dvpcr to test this cohort of individuals we would not have found Bartonella DNA in any of the participants either case or control so this is something that's not just nobody looked at they might have looked at it and not found it because the technology wasn't readily available to the researchers who were looking before it's important to remember that our study was by design not able to demonstrate the causal link even between like says however we believe this initial observational study strongly supports the need for follow-up research so it's correlative researched correlative pretty strong signal pilot study pilot study pretty strong pilot study with a very small sample size so of course the next step is bigger broader deeper dive into this information but again it looks like we're really one thing we have narrowed it down to is cats that that's much we can agree on it's cats are the problem now it's why are cats are the problem is the thing that has to get sort of sussed out still a little scoop kitty litter if you're pregnant I think yeah they said as a reason to take a break yeah scoop kitty poop so that one is still legit okay so the baby hang on let's back to that the baby blindness effects of toxoplasma gandia is contracted by pregnant women still leads to baby blindness that is still that's not the speed yeah toxa is not off the hook completely toxoplasma gandia isn't off the hook for any of the nasty but they are saying that the schizophrenia associated with cat ownership it's not toxo it's Bartonella isn't just isn't just because people with schizophrenia relate better to cats it might not be the toxoplasma gandia it might be because of this bacteria as another another vector another dangerous disease vector that you get poop from living with what should be a wild animal if only we got our cats leash trained and could take them outside to go to the bathroom the way that dog owners do with their dogs but what's the point of a cat then just get a dog is that the whole thing fair enough especially an indoor cat that cuddles doesn't go anywhere indoor cat tell us another story Justin okay so this is the food delivery from a 3,000 year old site in the eastern Alps of Austria this was a bronze copper mine did I call it a bronze mine before it's a bronze age copper mine bronze age copper mining site they were thought to have just been a bunch of crash people and miners that worked in this mine and then also manufactured goods from the mine and one of the things they discovered was that they had a lot of food remains but nothing evidence anywhere of any processed after like no chafes of wheat no husks no shells of things no tools that would be used for the processing of materials and so the results as they found these bronze age mining sites were getting food deliveries that were being processed somewhere else other farm lands and more distant sources than that the further study on plant remains and cooking tools there found yeah just just like anything else like today there was a food delivery network 3,000 years ago that was functioning they didn't grow food on site they didn't process it they didn't get like raw any ingredients and they didn't mill them they had flour delivered they almost had pre-cooked meals like if you take this in the spot you just cook it like this hey I'd like my blue apron delivery bringing my meals in this is not sponsored by blue apron it is not could be though but it's not we could do one of those things though where we secretly are saying I keep saying grub hub I don't know what the other ones are I've never used grub hub but that's how the influencing works on the interwebs now it's no longer advertising you get money by just say happen to casually mention product placements basically what the old school term was just product placement in a thing we did not make up this story about bronze age getting food delivery so we could talk about food services no we need it's a long time long time alcoholic indeed hey that's where I go whenever I'm looking for a new job which is more often than you might think thank you indeed oh jeez it's a long time alcoholic I don't care what I drink as long as it's in a red cup because when you drink from a red cup you know you've got company we're not nope amazing though that they were able to find these leftovers of millet and other other crops they found all the remnants and then somebody put it together like where did it there's no evidence of farming there's no evidence of milling there's no evidence of any of the things that we would normally attribute to a site where this food is being processed and prepared to be eaten where is it delivery it was delivered processed food delivered 3,000 years ago at least in the pandemic we're not in a copper mine no I feel like wasn't copper I don't know how it works with viruses but I know it's naturally antibacterial antibacterial I don't know if it works with viruses bacteria it works pretty well it's supposedly good if you have surfaces of copper everywhere but then on the other hand stick to it what is the thing is it Alzheimer's that prolonged exposure to copper or like very heavy exposure to copper I think it's Alzheimer's it's been associated with this it's always down there's a little tickling of a memory there for me in my brain too much copper copper tickling in my brain copper may worsen Alzheimer's risk there you go good memory there but what if your memories were false how how it's like when you tell a lie so many times true in your brain you're just like that's the way it is that's what happened you tell a story a certain way it gets repackaged in your brain reformatted over time to remember it in a false way this is a problem with witnesses on the witness stand false memories are a big problem for witness testimony it's also really interesting I'm watching things happen with my son he obviously does not remember being a year or two years old but we have a digital picture frame where he sees pictures of himself all the time as this little little creature and he's like remember that time when we went this place and we did that and he has a whole story a memory that he's built and I'm like yep but nope that's wrong you didn't get that right no you're not exactly right oh you made up a whole memory about this how do you remember or he'll tell me a story about a picture he's not even in they're like okay you have a whole memory about this alright that's not your memory alright researchers decided to look into how easy it would be to erase false memories so what did they do they got volunteers and then they got their parents to help them devise false memories so they got parental buy-in to find out okay so what memories were true and then how can we twist a memory around and create something like oh you know you got lost or you ran away or were involved in some kind of accident or something completely false memory and over several sessions they implanted false memories into these individuals heads 52 people they found that 40% so it's not a large majority it's not a majority but 40% of the individuals developed actually had false memories they came to believe these false memories were true and they would repeat them and they would recall them and come up with all the information related to them not true at all and so then the researchers used two strategies to try and erase these false memories and one of the strategies was to take the individuals and get them to remember the source of the events so they were asked about the source where did where did you hear about this where did that picture come from do you know about this individual that told you this thing they were asked to recall and revisit the memories themselves and so they and in another strategy they asked they told the subjects that hey did you know that if you can if you're asked to recall things a lot of times that it can cause a false memory did you know did you know that if you recall something enough times might not be true might be false and so they got the individuals to revisit their memory with this idea of it could be false now in their heads and the researcher said that they designed their techniques so they could principally be applied in real world situations by empowering people to stay closer to their own truth rather than rely on other sources they showed they could help them realize what might be false or misremembered and by raising participants awareness of the possibility of false memories urging them to critically reflect on their recollections and strengthening their trust in their own perspectives they were able to significantly reduce the false memories and it didn't change their ability to remember true events I was about to ask about that that you can't kind of suggest that something that's cause that would be really bad right especially when you think about people on the witness stand if you can just kind of like convince them something that happened that would be so bad but no you can though that has happened yeah but I guess the different method this method didn't work for that so if you're really on the side of good I was sitting around whose side are you on anyway I was sitting around a pool and there was this family one of the youngest members of this family was this four year old and we were talking about we were talking about memory and somebody asked one of the aunts asked the kid what's your oldest memory and he goes wow from when I was in my mommy's tummy I'm like oh okay what was that like and the kid went boom boom boom boom boom boom boom and everybody just jaw dropped like that child might actually remember what it was like you probably saw a movie where there was something about a baby in the womb and that's what he heard maybe but this was this was one of the most articulate young children like very quickly on it like they had a pretty high functioning brain I thought this story was about you Justin no no not me my oldest memory is McKinley Park downtown Sacramento going up to a drinking fountain and a little girl standing there like she's waiting and I looked up and she threw a handful of sand in my face and then the world went black and that was my earliest memory I think it was three oh I'm laughing because it's sad so funny that's why you're laughing oh jeez your earliest memory that's why I closed my eyes at drinking fountains yes you should and then one day I opened them and they were all gone I find this the memory, this aspect of memory and what we remember being true or not true earlier about our the bias that we have as individuals and what we want to believe and there's another study that was also out this week about kids perceptions of things and it discusses just how one negative statement from an adult or a trusted individual that might have just even been in passing can influence a child's for years yeah can absolutely influence a child's perspective and so they're all we talk about little pictures with big ears these kids soak stuff in their sponges they absorb things and those memories form the basis of who they are sometimes things they can't really implicitly recall or explicitly recall it's implicit I think it took my son a decade to overcome not wanting to talk about the son like 4 or 5 years old he heard that 4 billion years the son is going to explode and evaporate Kai was so upset about that no concept of what 4 billion we're all going to die 10 billion years away yeah it's closer than that it's like 4 billion it's still far enough away we'll go with 10 it just took a really long time to feel comfortable about talking about the son exploding again who wants to talk about the son exploding I want to talk about brain cells dividing and expanding why are human brains so much bigger than our nearest relatives why are our brains bigger than bonobos and chimpanzees why do we have more brain cells it's not just the size of our bodies it's not that brain to body size proportions researchers grew brain organoids clumps of brain cells in a dish and in earlier studies they had discovered that mouse brain cells they start out in a kind of like a tube from these cells they arrange into a tube-like shape and this tube-like shape whittles itself down into a more conical shape once it's conical it doesn't divide anymore it doesn't produce as many brain cells anymore so the cells stop dividing the more conical this structure becomes the genitor cells these brain cells brain stem cells that turn into the brain they got them for gorillas, chimpanzees and humans and they grew them in dishes little brain clumps in dishes and they determined that over about five days gorilla and chimpanzee brains make that shift from the tube and they stop dividing however human progenitor cells took seven days so more brain cells were formed and it was this the tube shape, the cylinder shape lasted longer in the human early brain than in these other relatives and so it's this difference in speed and really just two additional days of developmental time talking about the exponential division of cells can really be responsible for that massive difference in the overall number of brain cells which is about three times bigger in humans than it is in gorillas or chimpanzees but we also have it's some weird thing we have three times the brain cells or the capacity is bigger four times, whatever it is but the amount of blood flow that is going to the brain is something like 60, 600 it's like a phenomenally bigger number that is moving through to feed the thing there has to be more blood to support more tissue which came first the fish poop or the coral the brain size or the blood the researchers didn't look at blood they decided to look at genes and they found a gene that is called zeb2 zeb's dead baby, zeb's dead zeb2 turns on earlier in gorilla organoids than in the human organoids and then they delayed the effect of the zeb2 in gorilla cells they're like they delayed it so it would start later and what ended up happening is the gorilla organoids developed slower and larger and so ended up being closer to human when they slowed down zeb2 so turning this gene on in humans makes human cells act more like can you guess it gorillas and chimpanzees yeah I was just doing some really quick math because I'm really curious now so gorilla gestation is about 257 days and chimpanzee gestation is about 237 days, not too different from us so I had to do my math and we're at about 280 days it's our 40 weeks right so it's a little bit longer I was just kind of curious because pregnant humans are so they wouldn't survive in the wild at the end there right they did they did but yeah I just I don't know because also human babies are especially helpless and they grow very slowly and all this kind of stuff I was kind of wondering if some of that has to do with brain development yeah I don't know so the first thing that a human baby has to overcome is the fact that most of their body is skull cap under that skull they're mostly head most of their weight is right there and so just overcoming gravity with that giant thing that you need to do all the looking around is very limiting as far as just running about and I think it is I think it is the opening at the back of the skull that allowed larger blood flow did come before the larger brain case so I think it was getting the getting that energy source might have come before the brain might have but there still had to be these genetic changes to take place and so there's this gene that they've discovered now that is potentially one of the pieces involved in the timing of the development that influences the way the human brain grows and how large it can become as a result I'm glad then if that's just the case I'm glad it didn't get stuck at a size larger than the skull because that would have been problematic so it's lucky to have a super villain oh yes super villains love the super villains don't like the super villains love hate relationship with the super villains this has been a super Wednesday of science though I have gotten through all of my stories for the week are we done here did we do it I think we did it we made it through thank you everyone for joining us for another episode of this week in science hey if you have any questions for us about anything comments send us a note you can message us on Facebook or email me or Justin or Blair we have our emails coming up in just a moment as we close out the show it's time to say thank you to all of you for watching us thank you to my wonderful co-hosts for doing this great show another week another show thanks for spending time with me and talking science thank you to Fada for helping with social media and with show notes on YouTube thank you Gord for manning the chat rooms thank you identity 4 for recording the show and thank you Rachel for your assistance with notes and ideas I love it and what Rachel again yeah we have to have a meeting so you can all meet Rachel Rachel's awesome she's great she's Rachel she's out there one of those dreams we're like people who definitely never met show up and they're like yeah of course you know me you've known me forever I'm your uncle and that's your wife who you've also never seen before I'm like oh okay I guess so it seems plausible it's a dream but when you're saying this Rachel I'm like is that a thing that really is there's a really a Rachel she really exists she is really Rachel right now she's hearing this and going Justin I do exist she's not like one of those memory worms that parasites that gets in there makes you have believe that you know people who don't exist not a false memory is she a false memory or is she we may never know no no I also need to say thank you to everyone who has helped make this show possible thank you to all of our Patreon sponsors thank you to Karen Tauzy, Woody M.S. Andray Bisset, Chris Wozniak, Dave Bunn, Vegard Shefstad, Hal Snyder, Donathan Stiles aka Don Stilo, John Shioly, Guillaume John Lee, Ali Coffin, Gaurav Charmage, Sue Shoebrew, Darwin Hannon, Donald Mundes, Steven Albron Daryl Meishak, Sue Pollock, Andrew Swanson, Fredis 104, Skylake Paul Roenevich, Kevin Reardon Noodles, Jack Bryan Carrington, Matt Bass, Joshua Fury, Shauna Neena Lamb, John McKee, Greg Riley, Mark Hessinflow, Jean Tellier, Steve Leesman, aka Zima, Ken Hayes Howard Tan, Christopher Wrappen, Dana Pearson, Richard, Brendan Minnish, Johnny Gridley, Kevin Railsback flying out, Christopher Dreyer, Mark Mazarus, R.D.M. Greg Briggs, John Atwood, Robert Rudi Garcia, Dave Wilkinson, Rodney Lewis Paul, Rick Ramis, Matt Sutter, Phillip Shane Kurt Larson, Craig Landon, Mountain Sloth Jim Drapau, Sarah Chavez, Sue Doster Jason Oldes, Dave Neighbor, Eric Knapp E.O. Kevin Parachan, Erin Luth and Steve DeBell, Bob Calder, Marjorie Paul Stanton, Paul Disney, Patrick Pecoraro Tony Steele, Lisses Atkins, Brian Condren, and Jason Roberts. Thank you for all of your support on Patreon. And if you are interested in supporting us on Patreon you can head over to twist.org and click on that Patreon link. Want to let you know, remember mark your calendars April 17th 4 p.m. Pacific Time Twist Times, DTNS Crossover And on next week's show Yes, on next week's show we will be speaking with Michelle Newhouse about her Beloved Beasts book, subtitled Fighting for Life in an Age of Extinction. It's a conservation book. So Blair, I hope you're all over this interview. I started looking at it today because I thought the interview was today. I read the pages that are available on Google Books. Fantastic. But we'll be back. Wednesday 8 p.m. Pacific Time broadcasting live from our YouTube and Facebook channels and from twist.org slash live. That's right. Do you want to listen to us as a podcast? Maybe feed your mother dough while you listen? Just search for the second science or podcasts are found. If you enjoyed the show you can get your friends to subscribe as well. For more information on anything you've heard here today, show notes and links to stories will be available on our website twist.org and you can also sign up for a newsletter. You can also contact us directly email justinattwistmini and gmail.com or Blair at BlairBaz at twist.org just be sure to put twist T-W-I-S in the subject line or your email it'll turn into a false memory. No! I believe that. Did I send that email? Did I not send that email? I don't remember. If you don't remember you can simply reach out to us on Twitter where we are at twist science at Dr. Kiki at Jackson Fly and at Blair's Menagerie. We love your feedback if there's a topic you'd like us to cover address a suggestion for an interview, a haiku that comes to tonight. Please let us know. We'll be back here next week and we hope you'll join us again for more great science news. And if you learned anything from the show it's all in your head. This Week in Science. Just get understand to promote more rational thought and I'll try to answer any question you've got. How can I ever see the changes I seek when I can only set up shop one hour of coming your way you better just listen to what we say and if you learn your way. This Week in Science. This Week in Science. Science. This Week in Science. This Week in Science. This Week in Science. Science. This Week in Science. This Week in Science. This Week in Science. This Week in Science. This Week in Science. This Week in Science. This Week in Science. How is everybody oh after show oh after show. I just made an impulse purchase during the outro shopping here specifically what happened explain so we were talking about the brains we're talking about the brain being bigger than the brain case and all this stuff and then I let me see if I can screen share this if I can get some good yeah okay so I was specifically thinking about he's any forces impulse buying is the best buying so I was specifically thinking about let me share you yeah what have you done here um the is that Bernie Bernie we're over here no oh the tick okay yes yes I was thinking about the chick I was specifically thinking about this guy what I saw first yes brain child and so then I was like oh chair face chip and tell you so I was thinking about him and then I was so I was I was going down a whole rabbit hole with that and the best cartoon ever so I at one point when I was in college I owned a DVD set that I bought on eBay that was somebody who had like VHS taped the Fox kid earrings and transferred it from a VHS to a DVD that was the only way to get it right so like that was funny you're so funny I actually watched it on television when it was broadcast the first time well I that's how I actually consumed it was I watched it on TV when it was on the first time but when I was in college I was getting you were like what seven yeah I guess I don't know I was I was just looking up what what years did it air I was in college when it was airing oh yeah 94 so yeah I was a you were correct I was 8 to 10 years old and I watched it when it was on originally but yes so then I like went through all I jumped through all these hoops to get it and somehow in the million moves I've done since college I lost these ripped DVDs that had the like tracking through the center that like have the Fox kid logos jumping around and had like the beginnings of commercials that were taped off and so like I lost those and I haven't watched the show in forever and I was like you know the internet's better than it used to be stuff's like more available than it used to and I just checked it's still not widely distributed but I found a sealed in box a complete series of the tick on Etsy on Blu-ray and so I just bought that so that's done so that'll happen during the outro exactly Steven rain spoon exactly I was one of my favorite Sega Genesis games I've ever played by the way I was in one of the greatest concept movies ever and had amazing no man had an amazing cast I wasn't seeing no man that's always an extra somebody in the background doing stuff but this one I was working as a production coordinator on as well Timothy Leary is in this movie I think it's Adam Horvitz one of the Beastie boys is in the movie it has this sort of theory Daphne's the Negas princess from Spaceballs places in this movie and it has a whole bunch of any sky they remember like a whole bunch of this sort of be up and coming ish actors of LA in the early 90s all in this movie cannot find this movie you don't know what it's called it's called city scrapes you can find the IMDB on it but I doesn't exist there's nowhere to get this movie and I think I think it might have run into some sort of challenge I think it might have fallen into some kind of these scrapes Los Angeles 1996 yeah Max Perlich great movie it's basically the idea is I think he gets a package delivered to the wrong address or something and it's these sunglasses that allow him to have like sort of x-ray vision may I and and it's like doing lottery tickets or whatever but but also there's like it's like one of those where there's like you're following like six different little mini group stories and then they converge and it's like it's really well done cannot find this movie anywhere I want to read you the the synopsis on IMDB okay city scrapes takes you on a 24-hour voyeuristic journey through the bedrooms bathrooms bars cars clubs and restaurants and back alleys of the lives of the young and hip in postmodern Los Angeles ten intertwined stories follow 18 main characters as they deal with the twists and turns of everyday life in the mega metropolis a lot but so what's brilliant the director the writer the screenwriter the script writer they're just like yeah yeah okay who's who's the main character no no get this 18 main characters everybody's a main character there's no sub characters there's no no supporting characters everyone's a main but what's your character's name justice I didn't have a character I was I was mostly I was working with the production side we were the studio that was involved in making it do you have IMDB page no I know but but I was I got to be in a couple of the shots I was there in one of the bar scenes hanging out next to Larry who was one of my idols back in the day so that was really cool who kept asking me like so which which one of the which one or how many of these girls you hooking up with okay my thing Tim but okay but but oh gosh but it was like so it's 18 characters which sounds like this is going to be way too much but all the stories are sort of told pretty sweetly and without a whole lot of dialogue you it is very voyeuristic in a way some of it is just like a couple moving into an apartment is sort of a part of a thing and you can sort of see how they're relating with how they're arranging stuff one is it somebody's birthday and you never I don't know if you ever see them they're like the main character everybody's going to this birthday party and this is how old it is there's a pager going as everybody's trying to call him and he's and all you see is like the Nintendo controller he's like ignoring the birthday and he's just no friend doing out all day but it all converges it's just it's really well done I thought it was a pretty masterful thing but yeah it cannot find it I've never actually seen anything but dailies of this way back in the 90s so looks like I could get you battle Los Angeles I could get you crocodile Dundee in Los Angeles I could get you city of angels or I can get you man add rock was in it yeah okay it was not yeah yeah yeah yeah it has like an amazing cast and actually I don't think he had dialogue he was one of that he was like with the cut he was part of the couple I think moving into an apartment for the first time together and they were sweet but I can't really remember what they're can't remember what all the stories were but they all ended up getting tied together and drawn to this one location where something goes down but Google says people also search for cutting to mustard the size of watermelon off the lip I think there's a trailer for it it's on Amazon it says it's on Google Play also what's a Google Play is that another thing that's like iTunes for Microsofty things okay maybe I haven't looked for a while that's the thing that's what I was saying right like stuff that was unavailable on the internet even just a few years ago you can suddenly available again yeah so I'm getting my tick the animated series so that's good where to watch and see and stream no this is some weird block block block block oh and yeah don't talk to me about okay no it wants to sell us Legos Legos no I don't think it's available are you really I'm not finding it I mean it just said I found a link that said it was there but I don't know there's some there's some there's some video game scripts scripts that I think might be Google related but I don't think it's the movie yeah it keeps wanting to make it need is an independent video store where you have to rent a vcr because you no longer own one I don't even know play it so okay so here's my here's my my guess as to why and I don't know this my guess is that it was an art film because it was shot in black and white and they had so many SAG union actors and actresses who were under contract and everything else who loved the idea and found out whoever was in it which by the way was masterful I was in the room where it happened the producers had this long list of people they wanted to be in the movie and everyone they sent it to they said this is who's in it so everybody before we had anyone on board everybody who we wanted to be in it got the list of who we wanted to be in it with the idea that they were already in it and we just need to bring you in to finish out to finish up the cast and so we got we got I think like 80% of the wish list and that and then when when we were like ah yeah so-and-so fell out we were getting referred in people who were also like we would not have been able to get because we didn't know anybody at all basically that's awesome yeah it was pretty amazing but but I think uh Shoebrew has two VHS players you can borrow one of his VHS players when you at an independent video store I don't even know if it I mean it would have been I guess it must have been straight to video but I'm not even sure it made it because my my theory is I'm sure it's in on video somewhere it would be past my theory is that uh two there was too much of a push back from studios that had people under contract definitely Zanagas was on Melrose place at the time uh you know that people who wanted a cut of this thing because it was non-union the actors weren't getting really paid hardly anything it was like a volunteer thing but uh because we weren't union and because they pretty much all were I think that's what killed it in the end I think there was probably lawsuits or something that nobody at the studio level that I was working at would have been able to they couldn't they'd have to go up to find a parking ticket a movie made a documentary made about the disappearance of this movie yes you go Hollywood cold cakes people city scrapes the movie that was made and then disappeared Nidaleva are we talking about regrettable things we've acted in no this is brilliant this is really brilliant I'm I'm so surprised that this didn't didn't become something um I acted in some things in college I have no idea they are like relegated to somebody's you know uh their dreams of being a Hollywood director in a VHS tape in their closet it I don't know there's I mean we did this before with my tv appearance when I was on um was it called movie magic on discovery kids and we couldn't find it right yeah but that was that was like five years ago so it might it might exist hang on hang on I did find uh Vimeo has this oh has a uh three-minute trailer nice what okay vimeo.com backslash 366 130566 I think you already lost me oh yeah and the comments are like uh the comments are like oh this movie never got released I wish I'd gotten to see it and so I think that's why nobody's ever seen it is because it never got released which is too bad because it's I thought the one of the if not best movie ever made all right it's in the chat it's in the private chat um kiki uh do you have easy access to the twist logo that's like the burst that's on the t-shirts yeah because I have two people in the chat room who would buy that on a sweatshirt on a zip-up hoodie right now and I'm trying to put that in the zazzle store but I don't have that oh okay okay I can I mean find the things I wonder if it's in my drive it's got okay it's got jazz music playing some black and white is that beastie boys doing music oh there's max oh this is too good wait we gotta play this can we play this we cannot play that nope it'll never got released it'll pull the video link with people all right I can't do it I don't have access to the uh post in the youtube one oh sorry you have to go over to the free note private chat to find it you're not posting it in the youtubes oh I see city scrapes teaser who is this person oh here's somebody theo angel an angel says uh I was the dp on this movie so this you probably know this theo person I'll watch it in a minute I okay right okay why are you not sharing the vimeo link in the youtube chat room I know I can't chat in that chat room why not I'll share it in all the places I don't have here it is everyone don't worry I got you copy I found our lower thirds wow that's a blast from the past what is oh Jesus I'm using the wrong things too many computers and keyboards y'all there now I got you okay link there you go Nadelva oh AI human emotion episode thanks Laura that sounds interesting I love that I did yeah I did hear something recently oh you have to just and can't chat without making a youtube account I got it okay I understand now yeah there was a story out recently on AI and human emotion something recently that we did not cover on twists but always interesting stuff okay I am looking for what do you need which star but like the like of ovular one that's on the t-shirts oh I think you're did your dad do that did he maybe well darn hold on the one that's on the yeah the yeah the front of the t-shirts right yeah okay I will find that my drive my drive they have a lot of files yeah I think okay maybe I can that was so funny so I just watched the trailer yeah and it was I'm like I recognize like 90 percent of the locations were just in around the studio or people's houses but it looks good it looks really good I cannot believe that Claire I was like was not expecting nudity oh it was brief come on it was PG-13 nudity also enough with boobs being nudity give me enough yeah men can wander around with their shirts off and that's not nudity a nipple's a nipple chill out so says the biologist the zoologist yes yeah yeah yeah oh Schuber says Justin is wearing the black logo shirt a few times but I did not see it in the zazzle store no you got to come to the live shows yeah the t-shirt that is the one that uh that's like this this starbursty bit that's on the t-shirt is uh those that does a different t-shirt yes yes I need to get find a Zdarec t-shirt there we go uh but that was uh did you if anybody who watched the trailer that was Timothy Leary as the bathroom attendant that's the club awesome yeah hey Blair are we supposed change referring to you as the star itch and start calling a professional name yeah okay I realized that we have continued to call you about the B last name but you have a B last name please use the B last name okay good to know that is Adam Scott that is Adam Scott who's in the movie aha aha I found it Blair yes um maybe I'll send you I'm gonna forward you this really old email great I love it with all the things in it from this email from 2014 yay you know what happens to my email people who do inbox zero nothing my email stays in my inbox for almost a decade yeah I have 4137 emails in this inbox it's in the tens of thousands my spammy one has just unread let's see wait I was in this way I do not remember Polly Shore being in Polly Shore was in the movie apparently he had a role in there too also there's a credit that's missing that I'm not going to say but it's Dean Kane uh wait Superman and Scientologist is he he's he's he's gone off a little bit of a I want to say I don't think he's a Scientologist but I think he's got a little right wing but uh I could be but I do not I absolutely do not remember Polly Shore in that who uh I did meet on the set of Encino man now we talk about always back to Encino man we get it I met Paul Rubins on the set of Encino man no on the set of Buffy the Vampire Slayer the movie he was the master vampire nobody remembers you were in he was I remember that I have the first interracial prom scene kiss uh well in a group dance scene in Encino man I know in a Buffy the Vampire Slayer the movie the movie not the series not the tv show yeah I was in a whole bunch of random things because I was uh making money as human furniture uh back in the background of sets for a while and then I was it was working in production I was doing production stuff behind the scenes for a studio doing production coordinator stuff uh but then I wasn't getting any human I was getting very I still got some human furniture scenes actually at that time you would rather be human furniture than a production coordinator no actually I'd rather enjoyed being not in front of the camera yeah because you work a lot more yes you work through the whole thing not just a couple of days you work every day which is nice yeah this is uh this is not as easy as I thought because the black is not transparent there's gotta be something hold on that's an old no I think that's the one that we've used before that there's this one this is kind of cool here let me screen sure well it's I don't think Polly Shore was in that movie but they're definitely missing the IMDB is definitely missing uh it's definitely missing Dean King because I think he went in as a fake name I think he had to pretend to be his brother because he was under contract for at ABC doing Superman which also might have been part of what killed the release of this thing that's why it might have been all because I love my producers to death the people I was working with were really awesome but boy uh they were starting at the bottom and we're gonna scratch scrape and fight their way into the industry did I find it scratch and scrape one of the producers got a parking ticket and he uh he asked me to go find a car similar to his somewhere in the neighborhood so I went out and didn't look okay yeah there's another silver didn't take long there's another silver Mercedes like parked like four blocks away uh well what's the what's the uh what's the license plate number went back got it came back uh huh and then he like crumpled up the ticket a lot and rewrote their license plate and had me go put it on their car which I thought it was I thought it was funny if it had if it was not another Mercedes I'm like you know right it's a Mercedes this is this is this is a big jerk of a car or maybe it was even a BMW it might have been worse you might have the silver BMW this is it's enough of a jerk car that whoever's getting this is just like you so like deserves like uh absolutely complicit in this crime shoe brew was an extra in blues brothers whoa oh my gosh as long as you weren't a cop that was probably a fun day actually more fun if you were a cop did you get to crash a cop car you were so many crash cop cars in that movie that's so cool a lot of crown vix went down that day a lot of crown vix got to sing mini the mooch or with cab wow cool that is once in the lifetime you stuff I know that's awesome identity four let's see I wonder if Michael 45 oh no 4800 unread emails let's see I don't know how many let's see in box I guess I think they're in Delft was doing a tourism video in New Zealand they put her in a pen packed with sheep and they stepped all over and then they put it on a horse then on a horse and it bolted just barely managed to stay on oh my goodness what's happening in Blair's world everything okay over there Blair thumbs up awesome this is a nice hoodie Blair is that going to be a new hoodie uh if you guys like it or just to decide if I want to put something on the on the front here you can see how the sausage is made a little bit make it a sausage yeah that's the t-shirt thing did you invert it uh no this was one that looks um looks like this so it just because it's on a black thing it looks kind of there's grays in it it looks kind of neat oh no this is not the movie that Dean came but yeah if I do this that looks like there's like a black box it doesn't look good that was another movie that didn't get released oh god I think I will put make it look good Nadelva and Stephen rain liked the the hoodie that you were showing okay it's not in city scrapes that was in off Hollywood almost Hollywood which is a movie within a movie within a movie and really really badly made but still great plot great plot not the best acting great plot that's the one Dean came had the fake cameo dogs what are you doing I mean a few dog household at the moment that's right you have two dogs it's not just one dog and they're having fun they're having um they are having fun yeah so I was just looking I put the number in in the twist chat but I'm looking at my my gmail and my gmail and this is not even including I still have a whole other computer with outlook email that I had for a long time that's just in a computer now it that's it's archived because I don't use the computer anymore this email I have 164,144 messages in my inbox and that's the everything else the important things important items I have 23,744 I have 2,700 unread emails in my spam email right now oh my god I don't know how many unread emails I got this cute dog spam oh I only have 715 emails in my spam that's something ah okay it was almost Hollywood where's Dean Cain played hash the linger of the band hash but they don't put uh him in the credits because he couldn't be in the movie or no they have Roger Cain that's his brother so maybe that's who they have pretending to be him okay oh interesting that was a very interesting movie great concept movie great concept movie absolute like midnight movie b-movie uh acting all the way through but wonderful plot okay I think I'll go with this if everyone's on board there's the front there's the bad produced by almost everyone who's in the movie that's hilarious just like on the booby one yeah the little the little the little buddy unless we want to put this on the front also instead oh yeah nice young so uh that's the other option is to do this and then yeah maybe that's better huh yeah maybe that makes more sense or nothing on it nothing on the front splash on the front and twist would be better in my honest opinion okay well let's do that then I'll just do the same thing on the front on the back like that yeah like a smash okay also screen sharing so I can actually put this actually work on it done sell hey I reached I reached a point where I was like I can't read all the emails I try like hoodie description where this hoodie buddies how about that where this people twist budget regards tags twist science hoodie that's probably it it's rated g it's for the public I don't remember kiki do you remember what our our percentage was on the because I can't navigate from this away from the screen now I'll lose my my stuff this is fine I'm just gonna do the default I feel like it was probably the default we can't move forward until you fix the errors below okay sure no no errors oh you 24 hours to finalize your percentage that's nice I like that thanks Zazzle I'm gonna put all a bunch of new art in here now also since uh the calendars are out I usually wait till the calendars are out to put yeah on things the out of the next calendars uh last year's calendars I wait yeah yeah um okay Justin remember how we used to have the weird from Washington yeah with uh with Michael yeah Michael was awesome so I just had a job in Washington yes yes working at the OSTP with Obama and yeah before the last four years happened he worked there for eight years what four years what we didn't like the last four years of Obama no that's not what we transitioned into his vice president becoming the president this is the transition yes so I just talked with him last week and he is still moving and shaking in Washington and yeah he's uh he said he's doing some he's working on trying to get uh like a a DARPA for health started and he was pushing it through the uh Obama years that had never got picked up and then Trump didn't pick it up and but uh but Biden might be so perfect because uh I haven't yeah I haven't been getting my uh deep state marching orders for uh many many uh a couple years now oh wait are we still live oh shoot the deep deep state yeah apparently that was uh that myth obviously didn't ban out pretty quickly it's like yeah no it's just a handful of people who were experts at what they did uh helping steer the nation just helping and you know what that's happening again people who know what they're doing helping to steer the nation such an interesting criteria oh excited so good yeah but yeah so Mike is doing great awesome he's yeah still doing his his moving and shaking and I missed that guy I think we definitely could have used him the last four years but then like what was there to add everything was weird what was there to add to it at that point yeah um I had a bunch of inside information some like real like you know things to watch out for but then like they said the quiet thing out loud and it's just there's no point we'll see let's say the loud things out loud what oh my god I have to screen share what I just found okay I want to see all right Henrik if you're looking for me in the Buffy the Vampire Slayer movie I think you have to go all the way to the prom scene at the very end and near the center of there with a little bit longer front hair than I have now in a big poompf in a brown corduroy jacket dancing with uh my girlfriend because of that job and for a while after what what's going on I'm somewhere near the middle of that but you really gotta be quick to catch the and I think I sneak I think I do sneaker a kiss while it's being shot could be a false memory pretty much remember that could be a false memory could be something that was implanted by a Bill Gates microchip you don't know I do because you're like 5g implanted now dude yeah but the you know that that sounds bad but the download speed is pretty amazing that's right it's true the upside it's just crazy upload speeds not bad either so buddies look at this what you got oh I gotta share share share what are you making twist pants yeah yeah or what design is that oh no that was the um nope no yeah yeah yeah yeah uh uh-huh yeah that's too much oh that looks no that looks really awesome actually it just does looks like an interesting plaid pattern until you would get up close enough and then and then you're being reminded you should not be if you're close enough to read this you're too close backup buddy yeah too close oh you're gonna make us pants I need pants Blair this is great need some work for my leggings Steven rain it says twist underwear now yep um yeah the eye has to be lined up with the crack I totally agree I know I feel like the placement around the crotch is like they didn't think it through they didn't think it through yeah I was like oh hi hi hi Sadie hi Sadie your mom's gonna make pants we like that but I want to see your I want I want to jump into your dream where you were speed dating but had to be as dataist as possible that sounds this sounds like actually that could work what are you talking about oh god uh dataist dreams that's uh what were you talking about what how about our faces no I like the fact that I'm pointing though like if you made that like a leg patch like a leg pocket patch it's just got to move it over so that I'm pointing at the crotch oh my god yes oh my god look over there look over there this is for model I'm sorry dude how about this one all of Kiki's faces oh my god the many faces of Kiki on your pants on your pants or or need some twist pants you how would we react if a fan stood up wearing the no Blair no just on the wow okay Kiki looks a lot taller in that picture oh just up the left side oh I like just up the side of the leg wait I need the other side come on there we go I think it has to be rotated though right like it has to be yeah yep and I think smaller I think it has to be on both sides no one side one side one side you're right and then are there there's no colors they're just white don't you can't have white uh-oh workout pants that's insane oh can I know would you like some see-through workout pants let's see what can I do would you like to see how what color my sweat stains oh I think I can do oh yeah background aha thank you for catching jokes so nice setup though you had the perfect setup there I like this idea actually orange pants orange pimps front waist waist like boxer black it's just a twist instead of everlasting actually I might put these in the store I kind of think this is kind of fun oh yeah that looks like you're building a star wars outfit or something I like that turn it the other side yes there higher up the leg I think yeah a little higher up the leg that's good not rated G twist icon since when is the show been rated G anyway is the show rated are we too high too high maybe no is it I don't know I think it's good I think if you want it to be prominently displayed you should put it across the buttocks we're not we're not selling juicy leggings juicy that's what I was thinking I was like oh what are those pants juicy pants right or should it be should I put on the left instead I have I have pants from my sorority that are um on the that's the logos on the left does it matter like look at it now that's what they're showing off oh but now it's like the wrong way if any of you are wondering uh how I spent my time this is this is a good rubric I think it was better originally yep and then rotate it yeah rotate it there we go I kind of want these man these are fun they are fun I need all the leggings I can get I'm not leaving the house still come on I still don't need that leave the house I need basement clothes I think that's good should go further down what is the no I wouldn't put them further down would you I'm on the knee is cool okay yeah yeah either on the knee or just just slightly up from the knee but just right yeah right there that's good okay uh sell it okay sell it stop we're gonna sell pants you know why not I like that there's no um penalty for putting something in your store that nobody buys I appreciate that description where these leggings they actually they penalize you for not adding things to the store there were I got a message a while back because we hadn't added anything new to the store and I was told that we had and then you did and it was fine right Adam on the new is cool the left is cool because people across the street can read it but rated G I think people can figure out letters where the other turn your head oh what's we can't move forward till you fix the errors below where what what errors oh I have the right to sell this product that's what I forgot you do you do have the right something went wrong what the hell noodle says there's no size L for the hoodie there should be a size L they're definitely should is are they out okay it worked here's the leggings see through yoga pants would really sell twists oh my goodness no there's no size L or extra large no larger extra large they're saying they're sold out oh they're sold out yeah I do have to say if they get the stock in for those sweatshirts they're nice they're good springtime sweatshirts they're not thick they're kind of but they're just nice I really like mine they have all the sizes you're all screen here again I'm sorry I keep making you screen just if I get my own stream yard account will you be able to like make me a host and then I can do things I know uh yeah no so you have to uh log in with my account that's cute there you go so so they have larges and if you change the color yeah yeah okay just a different color yeah you don't mind it's cute yeah but yeah the black they only have and high demand they have blue I like the navy blue ah yeah they have them well navy blue high they recommend oh city city my headphones come on come on dude there you go okay um I was looking to see also hoodie cute white hoodie kind of like that black on white so so a lady's yep there you go oh my god I'm just gonna have all my my whole new sweatshirt collection will just be this weekend science sweatshirts oh also out of a bunch of stuff turn it because they're awesome they'll probably get more okay H&E K yes selling twists with their butts that's right look at this giant god yeah I think they are they are upping the quality of their products which is good I think they came across the fact that other outlets were uh competition and so they had to start making things nicer because they weren't for a while and I was thinking about changing and they seem to be doing pretty well with their products right now it's good oh any tie-dye clothing well I mean I tie-dye clothing all the time but no not in the zappel store no no no tie-dye clothing no why I don't like tie-dye I love tie-dye it's like tie-dye is like the gateway drug to reggae no wait also what's wrong with reggae what hang on did I rope Eli into playing or doing something on this movie what oh my goodness what that can't be right what are you talking about uh a very good friend of mine who's one uh I think he won like one of the what is it oscar oscar's for for the independent for the documentary filmmaking he's in the credits for this really crappy movie that the same studio produced as a second assistant camera what something crazy he's got a credit and I don't and I was a production coordinator on this oh no I'm there uh I'm there as additional crew assistant to the producers okay I am on there there you go uh check all the check all the things I do have it out so if I click on my IMDb there look for the white shirt credit that I have on zazzle yeah oh so you do have an IMDb I do I do uh except except it only has that one and not the other thing not in seno man and not it no it doesn't have you don't get IMDb credits for being extras in movies unfortunately you don't get IMDb credits for being in and seno man I had no idea that I somehow roped Eli into being part of this oh yeah I'm sure he needs buried I should not be mentioning it was it's really bad there's parts of it that uh I think now under the lens of today are uh I think there's somebody in blackface pretending to be Indian it's very bad but I did have I did have a nice scene in this which caused a little bit of a stir we're shooting gorilla again this production company didn't have permits for anything we're shooting on Hollywood Boulevard with the walk of stars and there's a scene where they're these two guys are talking about a movie or something about the movie business and they're walking along and we had to keep like jump in the van drive around take a next cut jump out film it jump in the van drive running it because we just had to be lucky and in between the shots my scene was I'm laying down as they walk along they're like yeah this city's really ruthless it's heartless it's really starting to get to me and he flicks a cigarette into and it goes out in a pile of puke next to this homeless person who's lying on the the the walk who's me oh no who's me and it was like some cream of mushroom soup or something that we poured out and I'm just I'm there with like this paper bag clutched up looking all haggard but between the shots they did walk down do the shot then get in the van go around the block real quick and then and do it again because no permits you had to do it kind of realist out meanwhile I just stayed in character I'm just still laying out on the walk of stars the walk of fame there just chilling out on the ground and concerned people are coming up to me oh my god are you okay do you need help sir are you all right I'm like oh shoot no movie I'm sorry everything's fine I'm acting right now oh my god really like is it anything real in this town like no all the homeless people are just in a scene right now it's just yeah there's gonna be a film crew if you could just keep going it'll be because we gotta clear the street before they shoot again okay yeah no problem wow Hollywood is everywhere yeah come around and shoot again I don't see Hawaiian shirts what did you see somebody was asking if there were oh okay yeah hollow boulevard is always packed so we were on I think we were on vine we were on one of the intersecting streets but it was it's right off the main boulevard so it was a little I was a lot less traffic but it still had the stars on the on the sidewalk so it was enough that we needed for the shot but that's another movie I don't think any but that was straight to international video it wasn't even straight to video domestically it went to like straight to video in Japan and like North Korea and that was it like nobody else might I think we might have been big in Czechoslovakia I don't know we weren't we didn't go many places though people have people are misspelling my name where but that movie but that movie was so bad uh that and you can tell movies bad when all of the producers of the movie are in the movie huh they all had a title character somewhere in that movie which actually amazingly uh one of the producers who was like from Minnesota or something who I don't know how they rope this poor person into like giving money to make the film actually did a good job they were like one of the better performances I thought uh when you were when you were shooting it it didn't look it was like awkward because this person isn't acting at all but then when you watch it it's like actually they're the only legit character in this whole thing they actually seem to be having honest reactions whereas everybody else is really like I'm acting in a bad movie so I'm gonna keep acting in a bad movie because that's what I'm doing I'm in a bad movie I'm gonna overact because I'm in a bad movie which actually the main character was some sort of New Yorker who moved to Hollywood and was gonna break into the business but then it was or were they a detective I can't remember it was a murder thing that was happening on the set of a movie people were getting murdered and at the end you find out that's all been a movie but then there's another movie after that that gets revealed pulled away from it's very movie within a movie within a movie again great concept that one's execution and poor Eli I had no idea he got rubbed into being part of this movie IMDB does not know how to spell my name Stanford but it does have one of the best lines too yeah it has some of the great lines from okay three words about hookers in movies Julia Roberts pretty one hundred million dollars but this is just a hooker yeah yeah but I still get my 10% oh jeez well everything about that movie was wrong but uh in retrospect actually very point on about what was going on in Hollywood this is very Harvey Weinsteiny very much almost almost celebrating it but still it was celebrating it there was a lot of that in Hollywood there was a lot of reveal in that as well if you look at it from the right perspective look at it from like right perspective um I need to go to bed I'm doing okay I'm uh I'm sharing one more thing have to go run things blue and orange is good black and orange just do Halloween yes okay share share share Kiwi what are you doing with the Kiwi oh you know just just making a tank top just making a tank top oh that's awesome that's super fun where's our twist underwear maybe like a green thank you shoe brew for just adding in those extra letters first and last name those good there we go what do you think is that fun yeah that's cute it is fun I love it should I try to tile them here too no no I like it yeah is that color good yes color blind girl asked you did a good job I like it in the pictures like what is that it looks good do you have poops on your shirt no no poops no poops on the shirts oh yes thank you should I wonder if we can IMDB twist please how do I submit twist to IMDB I'm I'm begging someone to make me a Wikipedia page because I've been on like six different podcasts yes and I've been quoted in like four different newspapers like please just give me a Wikipedia page you gotta make your own I don't think you can anymore I think you have to be like an approved Wikipedia author now yeah well I have one or there's one in my name I will I will guarantee they're trying to stop fake news but it won't be me hmm Justin Jackson basketball Justin Jackson American football yes Jackson Jackson English football only say mostly harmless Canadian professional basketball player Justin Jackson another basketball player Justin Jackson another football Justin Jackson Justin Jackson we all all the Justin Jackson's are good at sports apparently yep all but me all of them except you yeah so yes so I'm doing a conference this week when I say doing a conference I mean I'm running the conference so I'm gonna go make sure things aren't broken early tomorrow morning um because it's a virtual conference and yeah I've been working since 7 a.m this morning so save for a couple of breaks so I think I've had a long work day and I think I'm ready to go to sleep or at least read a book until I can convince myself that it's time to sleep and then try to be awake tomorrow and have energy and yeah it'll be good by the way our Wikipedia page for this week in science it's pretty epic yes we've had six guests on the show we need a wikipedia editor editor to edit our wikipedia page don't we identity 4 says he'll make me one that says mostly harmless oh that's to me I like that's mine I want mostly harmless no no it's lies for both of you all right then mine should say harmless I can be the original identity 4 it is that time now what is what is most oh wait let's ask where what's mostly harmless mean I don't know it's the entry for earth the updated entry for earth by ford prefect uh and the encyclopedia uh galactica oh if you don't know that you don't deserve the titles all I'm saying the original was harmless uh well so yipes and it got updated to mostly harmless so I read I read a history thing recently about history of science communication and in case you didn't know science communication before it was called science communication was called science vulgarization wait what wait what are you saying sorry it was called science vulgarization what was I missed what it was science communication instead of it was called science vulgarization making making science Valgur enough to be understood. Valgur enough to be understood. Valgur enough to be understood. Valgur enough to be understood. For the Valgur, class, yes. Making, looking at Vulgar. Well, if you come right out and say it like that, then I know. Yeah, we're talking dirty to you every time we- That's right. Twisted so vulgar. We're talking dirty, dirty science talk. So full of vulgarizations. One, nine, what are those numbers? Nine, seven, six. That's my favorite. Docsize to me. That's right. Yeah, I think we either have to change Twiss's name or I need to start a new show that would run in parallel a different show La Sion's vulgar I this desire to do a show called why do you think that? And then like you could go off the list of all the different things. Yeah pretty much Why do you think that? That's actually really good Justin. No Well, that's like that one night in a hotel room when Kiki and I came up with a new podcast you remember that one. Yes called well, actually Oh, yeah, perfect. I love it. I love it Why do you think that question mark? Well actually dot dot dot combine those two ideas and you have the essence of Okay, I understand that there's a belief out there. We could go like right to The whole thing like red states it tends to be where like the we we don't we're against the welfare state Which I understand because in your states Federal welfare recipients probably receive About the same amount as people who work full-time because you are massively underpaid working full-time in your state in California It's not that much. You don't get that much from an employment compared to somebody who's working So it doesn't seem like a great thing to be on and with that way we're not against it By the way, your entire state is a welfare state your entire state pays less taxes than it receives versus those blue states Which I was saying you're getting bailouts, but it's their money because they put it all in in the first place And you did like going through like Breaking down actual what the reality of whatever it is is I Think would be so much fun so much break it down. Yep break it down I Control one at the beginning of the show again. This is a perfect example I almost always hear the same tropes come out of people who have never like Googled it even let alone like found a paper that anything that But it's a thing that they hear repeated over and over again, and there's also something interesting about the Union story Which is it's actually illegal Since like the 1930s illegal to for an employer to pressure somebody out of Wanting to start a union or out of joining it. Oh really? However, you're allowed to have to have espoused views of policy against unions and so what's happened is well that's so much of media is Constantly deriding Unions How is that not? basically intimidating people from wanting to join the unions if you have like Millions of hours of Anti-union rhetoric floating around with no facts to back them up. I don't know everything needs changes I was watching this really crazy thing Housing is my one of my I think is the most important issue Facing America when it comes down to it That's why I don't think there's a reason the minimum wage really matters because they will just take it from those poor people in the form of rent Because these people are renting yep, but but it was proud of the most important Yeah, but the thing that with the line that I that I heard was like Nobody who is a landlord is a housing specialist in America No, that's right. They're business people. They're trying to make the most amount of money There's nobody anywhere in America really had to please stop who's really like There to provide housing or interested in providing housing to the point where we actually have a glut of housing for the high end But nobody's building nearly enough for the low-end in fact if you take everybody and house them You'll be like almost two to three people per one bedroom At this point There's not enough housing to house all of the poor people to have a one bedroom apartment to themselves Even and they can't afford it on the minimum wage, but that doesn't matter because it's the housing costs. That's so prohibitive But we can compare it to so many other countries, you know that China has a 90% home ownership rate 87% of new homes bought in China today are second or third homes That's crazy. That's upsetting. They have a billion people and they figured out the government is just gonna build housing everywhere and Then let people buy it for Affordable prices so that everyone has a place to live to launch their economy from Interesting idea. It's almost as if wealth trickles up instead of It's not necessarily it's not even necessarily trickling up or trickling down, but to have a stable healthy efficient workforce People need the basic thing of housing. Yep, period You need to have stability you need to be able to you need to have an address You need to be contacted at that address. You need to have yeah You need to have a group over your head so you have a place to get away from the weather so that you can stay healthy so that you can Yeah, there are all the things And it's not just a house where like everybody lives or a room where you have 17 people in one room either because that's not healthy at all Yeah Yeah, yeah, and you know European Union countries first world countries Housing is the thing that is Supplemented by the government in effort to keep people housed most of those countries have laws in place to prevent Commodization over commoditization at least of housing Whereas in this country we have no we have nothing I mean we there's nothing that prevent China from coming and buying houses and renting the people There's hedge funds and mutual funds that we have in Wall Street that are purely designed to buy houses and rent them to people and not apartment buildings not big apartment buildings where they're gonna Have an obvious renter situation, but they now have been moving into since the housing collapse Buying up single-family homes. Yeah, I'm renting them out, especially California. Do you know why California? because we have a property tax law that is based on The value at which you bought the home it stays there So I need to go to bed. Okay, but why that's attractive is they bought all these houses during the collapse and They're and in you the companies can sell the entire List of 10,000 20,000 100,000 homes that they own in California and those homes Technically didn't sell just the company that owns them sold. Yeah, so the property tax is because it never sells Never changes. It's such a scam. It needs to be Anyway, but that's for a different show like Actually Go to bed. All right. Say good night. Say good night. Bye. Bye. Say good night, Justin. Good night, Justin Good night, everyone. Thank you for joining us for another episode of twist can't wait until our show next week It was a good conversation good clothing development by Blair while we were doing this Good insight by Justin into economic matters Thank you so much. I'm tired. I'm gonna have things I hope you all get some good rest or have a good day wherever you are. We'll see you later Thank you