 How is everybody doing? Great. How many of you are going to start a podcast? One out of 100. Awesome. Everyone else leave. All right. So I know this is a pretty compressed amount of time. There's a lot that goes into creating a podcast, publishing a podcast. The good news is I'm not going to cover all of these bad things. I'm not going to cover all of the technical nitty-gritty stuff, but at the end there's a resource I'm going to give you. You can go to Download. It has all of the real technical stuff. The stuff that I'm going to talk about today is how to keep your podcast alive, how to promote it, how to really find the story arc in your podcast. Many of us want to reach a new audience. How many people are trying to reach a new audience in their content marketing? Right. How many people are doing content marketing? What is content marketing? It's like, what's going on? The good news for us, for those of us who are just thinking about launching a podcast, there's some stats I grabbed from Jay Baer's website. One-third of Americans aged 25 to 54 are listening to the podcast monthly. So I look at that. We still have a lot of opportunity in the podcast. How many people listen to the podcast? A few of you that don't listen to the podcast. All right. 69% of podcasts are consumed on mobile devices, working out, driving your car probably, going for a walk, that kind of thing. Cooking dinner is one of the ideas most of my podcasts listen to, cleaning the house. So there's a great opportunity to be connected with your potential audience, your new audience. The forwarding part, right? The why. It's like, you have to have a goal. You have to set a plan. You're trying to lose weight. Don't eat that pizza. It sucks. It's not fun. But the why of a podcast is super important. And I'll tell you why the why is important. It's because running a podcast for those of you who maybe have attempted it in the past and are trying to do it again, you can get burned out doing it, right? And the thing what they say is you can get through the first 10 episodes. You're super pumped up. You're really energetic about doing this thing. And then it's like episodes 10 through 30. You're like, why am I doing this again? You have to find new guests. You have to do show notes. You have to promote it. You're like, nobody's listening. You're getting one star reviews. So hopefully I've talked you out of doing a podcast lately. But it's very important to understand the why because it keeps you grounded. It keeps you rooted when you're really doing, when you're really in the motions of doing a podcast. And you remember why you're doing this. Is it money? Is it to grow that audience? Is it to drive an email list? These are the things that you're really going to go through as you progress through a podcast. The why makes you create new content. Hopefully this reason that you're doing a podcast is because you want to drive more traffic to a brand. If you're somebody that works for a brand and you think this is a great avenue to grow traffic, it is. If you're looking to supplement a blogging business that you already have or a product or service that you already have, this is a great way to drive revenue. Goal setting, like I just mentioned before. What is that goal that you're looking to set out with? It's very important that you revisit that, but it's also important to know that it's going to change. My original podcast, network.com, it was all about WordPress, and when I started it, it was just to learn what other people were doing with WordPress, like how are they building an agency? I was launching my agency and at the time, I wasn't a developer, still not a developer, but I wasn't rooted in the WordPress community as a lot of other people were in the beginning. So I set out saying, how can I have conversations with people so that I can get to know this WordPress community? And it was a great starting point for me. And that was the goal. That was the original intent that it still is today. Very much is a roller coaster ride. Sometimes I'm just like, man, who wants to listen to people talk about WordPress all the time? Really. Right? Really. So you go through those ups and downs and depending on what you don't think you might be talking about with your podcast, you might go through that same thing. Just be ready for that roller coaster ride. And it comes in waves. It comes in, you are super pumped up about listening to your show. You have this amazing guest on. You get all of these reviews and readings and shares. And then you get the next guest on. It's not as, it doesn't hit the mark as much as the last one did. You can kind of feel like, this is tough. This is something that I have to keep pushing through. And it is to a little bit of a degree. What is a podcast? For me, podcasting isn't just like iTunes and Google Play. There are so many platforms out there now where we're publishing stories. And it's in the form of social media. It's in the form of Instagram stories. It's in the form of your YouTube channel. It's in the form of your Facebook Live stuff. It's exhausting. Right? It's exhausting. But it's something that has to be done or can be done to supplement your audio podcast. So for me, it's really about publishing message. So for those of you that are in the audience thinking about watching that podcast, and they're saying, oh man, it's so technical to do all this stuff. I have to go to iTunes. How do I do that? It doesn't always have to be that formal way when you launch. It can be just your Instagram stories. Or it can be just a YouTube channel in the beginning. And then you can launch this into a greater, you know, your own platform called podcast. So it's all about broadcasting. It's everywhere that you can be. One of the things that I've been investing a lot more into this year is YouTube. I'm doing a lot more on YouTube because I don't know what. I just know that there's a lot of people going back into YouTube. It was something that I started years ago. I said, you know, this audio thing is great, but I need to supplement it with video. And not cool. I'm not going to be on Snapchat. You know, I don't even know how to use Instagram anymore. Just swipe left to pull up the stickers. It's just too complicated for me. YouTube, I can just create a video and upload it. Save me a little podcast. I can just create an audio episode and upload it. So while I was making this presentation, I asked a whole bunch of people online about, what is it that they would want to hear me talk about creating a podcast. And a lot of it, a lot of folks said, how do I find the confidence to do it? How do I get somebody on the show? I don't know somebody. I don't know anybody in my particular field, but I want to start having these conversations. And number one, you know, marketers ruin everything. I haven't said that. It might have been Gary Vee or somebody else. But marketers, when they're putting together their listicles of how to start a podcast and all of that, it's just very sterile. It's just very, you know, follow this system. To me, I just love having conversations with people. And that's it. Like, that's why I do podcasts. There's no real monetary gain for it for me. I'm not trying to grow any email list. I just love it. I just love having the conversations. And that really just helps me keep doing it. It helps me find people that I'm interested in to have a conversation with. And I just ask them. When I started the first episode with the network, which was like five or six years ago, my first guest was Jesse Friedman, who spoke a couple hours ago. He was the only guest I knew. He was like the first person I knew in the WordPress space. And then from the next 10 episodes on, it was just people I had swallowed on Twitter. They'd say, hey, want to be on this podcast? Can I talk about WordPress? And I'd be like, yeah, sure, no problem. It's just having the confidence to ask and know that, you know what, we're all trying to achieve the same thing in this conversation. If it's about WordPress, we're all trying to learn a little bit more. So having the confidence to ask people is just finding it within you to say, look, we're all on common ground. Let's have a conversation. So like I said, I did it my way. These are the three things, really, that still drive me today. Being interested in being curious, just ask, and find a way to help and entertain others. So if any of you have been listening to my guest for a while, there's a podcast out there called Mixer G. I started listening to Andrew Warner years ago. And when I started my first, very, very first episode, I copied him exactly to a team. The way he did his introduction, the way he introduced his guests, the way he broke for like an ad slot. I think I was maybe just making an ad for myself because at the time I didn't have any sponsors, I didn't have any products. So I was just doing everything exactly the way he did it. Even the camera angle was exactly the same way. And I found that, you know, over time it's flying to start by looking at what others are doing and be influenced by that, but finding your way, finding your voice is what I intended to do a year away. I'm interested in curious. I'm always the dumbest person in the room. I don't know a lot of things. So I ask questions. And that's why I have conversations with people. I'm generally interested and I'm generally curious on how people do things. Just ask me, cover that. Just ask me what you want me on the show. A lot of people want to help themselves, get the word out for whatever their product or service is. So it's generally a great fit. Finding a way to help and entertain others is something that I found to be my sticking point with doing podcasting. We'll talk about this in a little bit. Like, you measure the success of a podcast, is a podcast successful, that kind of thing. It's really just to find the feedback I get on Twitter in person. People send me notes and they say they love the podcast. They love what they've learned and ask it. Like, that's where it ends for me. That's all I need to keep doing what I do. But at some point you want to try to entertain people just a little bit. Think about what podcasts you listen to. After a while it's just how-to content or if it's just developers speak, that kind of thing. It can get probably pretty boring. So you want to try to at least entertain people. And that's just the model that I've gone with for quite some time. Thinking outside of the audio client. So these are things that I start to think about when I'm creating an episode is is this going to be the same thing over and over again? Am I asking the same questions? When I think about my own story arc of creating a podcast, I went from copying Andrew Warner, Mixergy, and there was a guy, Andre was on fire, Jonathan. Can't remember his last name right now. But I started copying his lightning round set of questions and I noticed that a lot of the hot casters were doing that. Then I started thinking, well what else can I do besides pulling in these, being influenced by these other entertaining shows? And at one point I created the Matterport Startup Challenge. So it was like sharp tank for WordPress. It was just having a round table of people who were watching their businesses with a guest panel of judges. There were no winnings. There was no money earned, but it was great education and a great feedback for the entrepreneurs. So you have the freedom to do whatever you want with a podcast. And I think that that's inherently why I am drawn to doing podcasts because it's incredible. It doesn't always have to be the same way. You get to own that experience. You get to own that connection with somebody. You're having a conversation. You're having a conversation your way and hopefully you're connecting with the audience. You own content on WordPress and that's sort of the whole connection here for me. Getting guests, asking for reviews, keeping the conversation moving. These are all things that are in play while your show is live, while you're talking to your current guest, or you're doing a live stream, or you're doing a round table. You're always looking for that next guest by asking the people you're talking to that are there or pulling your audience and saying, hey, who do you want to see on the show? Who can you recommend? That used to be one of the staple questions of my early days of doing a podcast as to who should recommend to the other show. Asking for reviews, everybody, here's how many people actually left reviews? Nobody. Oh boy. Reviews really keep us going. So if you're playing or watching your podcast or if you do listen to a podcast over and over again and you ask it every single time, I will admit it's not easy on iTunes and on your phone. 17 clicks and you have to spin it around in order to leave a review. But it definitely keeps us energized. We'll see a review come in and a positive comment which would be great. Keeping the conversation moving is another staple too when you're doing something with multiple people. I mean, people have tuned into a podcast or round table of experts. It's like seven people and it takes like a half an hour to get through everybody's introductions. Just keep the conversation moving, right? As the host, this is like probably number one or number two piece of advice I have for orchestrating or for being the person I think ahead of a podcast is make that super fast. You do the introductions for them. Tell them they've got 10 seconds. Always thinking about your audience. That's the way I approach it. Trying to think of it as a virus into this. Let's just get through the good stuff. Putting your audience first. This is stuff that is a no brainer but you can kind of get lost in just asking questions that only you're curious about. And that's fine. But eventually you want to start pulling your audience and asking them how do you want me to shape the show and getting people engaged with that kind of thing. What I used to do way back in the day, well, not way back in the day, but at one point I had somebody who was an avid visitor of the show and she wanted to be more of like a producer, right? She said, hey, I really love the show so much. Would you want to put me out there to interview guests for you? That was a great way to bring somebody in that I've wanted to listen to the show every day or every week that I published. But they were also out there asking curious questions that you wouldn't have thought of, right? So you kind of enhance your podcast by bringing on a producer and being more, you know, how many would like if you will. That's a great way to do it. So let's talk about just tying this stuff all to WordPress. If you're somebody who watches a YouTube channel, let's say, let's use that as an example, you can hear from a lot of YouTubers that it's getting harder and harder to make money on YouTube, right? The ad revenue is going away. There's an apocrys thing, and people aren't watching all the time. People aren't advertising much. There's a platform called Patreon if anybody's heard of that where you can kind of donate to people monthly recurring. For me, that's great. And it's great for a lot of creators who aren't technical or don't really run their own .com website or whatever they might have. WordPress gives you that flexibility, right? It gives you that flexibility to take this traffic that you're generating and create an awesome community or membership forum or, you know, membership content, only that kind of thing. You can use something like easy digital downloads to sell your own e-book or, you know, create a product that you want somebody to download. You can sell them consulting services. You can do this all within WordPress and you own that platform. If anybody who has followed me before I have strong feelings against platforms, some of them are good, some of them are really bad. You see this with, you know, things like Facebook where they shift their business model and you have to shift the way that you connect with an audience. I like to bring this all back to WordPress because I can own this platform. This is my content, my data and my users that come to the site and I want to be able to monetize it in my way and control the experience in my way. And that's why I'm the point of doing podcasting with the WordPress website. It's this whole, like, art versus livelihood versus platform dilemma that I see a lot of people do is going through. So there's a lot of artists on YouTube that create awesome, engaging videos and then they have a really hard time monetizing it because they're on the YouTube platform and they just don't know how to cook into this WordPress thing and own the traffic. And I think you can make strides that way. Is anybody thinking about monetizing creating their own product, creating a membership site one of two people, three? It's an awesome way to do it. I think it's the smartest way to do it versus giving it all to the platform. I'm going to go into some quick tips. That was more sort of broad strokes. And now we're going to go into some tips and then hopefully enough time for answering some questions and even showing you some backend stuff of what I have set up on a couple of websites. How many people read transcripts on podcasts? Awesome. Show notes and stuff like that. Rev.com. Temi.com. I think that's how you pronounce it. Temi.com. These two websites are super fast, super affordable for doing transcripts. Folks that monetize their shows, people that run ads or have sponsors, you're more likely to see transcripts and show notes being done more consistently because it does cost money. I think if it's like a 45 to 60 minute show, both of these top websites here might run through about $20, $25 to get a transcript made, roughly, to get a little bit of cost star. So there's some hard costs there. So if you're doing four episodes a month, you're talking about a hundred bucks a month and just doing transcripts. Not counting everything else that you might do. You can hire somebody. Hiring somebody can come from your eye but you can hire somebody from your audience to do show notes for you. This is something that I've done in the past where people have just come to me and said, hey, again, super fanless is the show a lot. You want somebody to write show notes for you because I like doing it. It's another great way to do it. You can get third party service to do stuff like this. I think it's a podcast motor for a little bit on the higher side of expense, but they'll do all of this stuff for you. They'll do the transcripts with the show notes. And you can go in and wait a minute. But roughly what I found is if you're trying to do transcripts and show notes, you're probably looking at 50 to 75 dollars per episode. It's just for those costs, right? Never mind some of the other stuff that we'll talk about here. So while I think it's great for accessibility and everybody should get these up on their sites, it's not feasible for some people. A possible limit of money. Production, intros, and making it sound good. I'm a fan of Adobe Audition. I've locked in to the CC 30 bucks a month thing, so I don't really have a choice. I'll use what I have. But Adobe Audition does a great job. There's a pretty big learning curve. Again, it's stuff that I'm still working with years later. But it can really make your podcast sound a lot better by cleaning up background noise and adjusting the types of tones in the voice. Especially when you're interviewing somebody over Skype or Zoom, that kind of thing. But for most of us, GarageBand also works just as fine. So it's not going to have some of the scientific things that Adobe Audition has. If you're not on Mac, Audacity, which also runs on Mac. But if you're on Windows, Audacity is another free audio editor. Again, a lot of the stuff is going to come with some learning curve stuff, but it's easy to chop, edit, and cut things out of your podcast with this. MusicRadioCreative is a website. I should have put MusicRadioCreative.com. This is a site where you can get voiceovers from people from all over the world, male and female, different tones. They can lay it on top of music if you want. So if you're looking for something that's a little bit more professional for your intro or outro for your podcast, MusicRadioCreative is a great source for that. Don't throw anything at me, Fiverr.com. Sometimes for voiceovers, you can do good. You can use Fiverr for really anything else, but for voiceover people to do intros. I've had some success there, but it certainly wouldn't have to be a website. Music from Bakers. This is a gentleman that I interviewed. I think he's outside of San Francisco. Musicfrombakers.com, he just makes audio tracks. Every week, he releases a free one, and I think it might be $100 a year for access to all of his music. So if you're looking for intro music, outro music, and you do some other creative things within your podcast, it's a great source of music. And he's a poor man fan. He uses easy digital networks. That's how I got him. So he's supporting the WordPress cause. Seasons, story arc, and creativity. Seasons really believe in pressure, right? I know we get it all up in arms when we're late. Game of Thrones, I'm gonna come back for another two years. But it takes time to create this stuff. We always want these episodes thrown at us super fast. It's not so different in the podcasting world where when you're doing it over and over and over again, there's no real break. There's no real break to introduce a new storyline or to pivot and to cover new topics. I'm going on my eighth season, and I haven't published an episode probably since the start of Summertime. I took this summer off, going into the fall, start releasing new episodes. But it allows me to set the tone of a new season. It just allows me to adjust a little bit. There are people who just pound away every week. It's very news-topical stuff for where they're at in their business. It's great if you want to pursue that route. But for me, I'd like to have some time of the beginning story arc. Season 8 would be all about some of the changes in the WordPress business market space. It's a great way to progress. It's a great way to reset and find others to host gap seasons for you. Again, going back to the audience, once you start to produce a podcast and get it out there, folks want to help you out. What I've often done is when I take a break personally from podcasting, I bring on other people from the community to host little gap seasons. I bring on people with voices that people don't necessarily hear from all the time or people that have strong opinions about WordPress and the WordPress space, and I let them host it. That's always fun. Sometimes I have to go post a show. Plugins and services. Again, you'll be able to get these slides when I'm done and another resource in here that has a lot of the stuff in greater detail. Seriously simple podcasting plugin. Let me take a step back. For me, there's only really two options to go with plugins. It's either seriously simple podcasting or PowerPress. Seriously simple podcasting is seriously simple. It's so easy. I'll show you how to set it up on one of the other sites. CastOS is their hosted solution if you want to host clients with that. They get some other briefings and they're like statistics and listener account and that kind of thing. PowerPress is probably just the big leads of podcasting plugins. It's a lot more technical to set up. Seriously difficult podcast plugin? It's a lot more difficult but it's got all the bells and whistles in there and you're very, very concerned with metadata SEO rating, connecting to every possible podcasting outlet. PowerPress is the way to go and they're a blueberry network. There is no e-mail name, by the way, it's not a typo. The blueberry network is where you can go to host their files and they have great support. I originally had hosted my files on Amazon S3 using PowerPress plugin and then the cost was just two great on Amazon S3 where I was able to pay 50 bucks a month at the blueberry network and save a boatload of money. And then SoundCloud. SoundCloud is just another place to put audio files and this is a great way to sort of publish into a greater footprint and I also publish over there as well. People can subscribe to SoundCloud and you get a bunch of cool stats there as well. I know I don't really like platforms but Angular FM is one of these cool podcasting platforms. You can host and start a podcast for free but you are a platform and I don't know what happens if they ever give it and change their model and free goes away. But it's a great way to put up a smaller clips of your of your podcast. We'll put some bonus material over there because they might have some other monetization features. Does anybody use Angular FM? Nobody. It's not even going. But for those of you who are interested I'm just giving you a microphone to choose because I know some of you are out there thanking that. You can start super affordable. One of my podcasting logos gets stuck up there. I'm sorry about that but the Audio Technica ATR 2100 in USB. 64 bucks plugs right into your laptop. Sounds pretty darn good and if you ever upgrade to like a mixer and you're going to have a whole bunch of people in a room doing a podcast they can use XLR cables. The one that you can't see because of my logo is the blue microphone from the Yeti microphone. A little bit more expensive. Sounds really good. Plugs into USB for any of you that are about an hour south of here. I run a podcast called We Are You Podcast you can get at southcoast.fm but the example shown here is I've been running the Mavicorp for so long I said I want to do something more local I want to do something that highlights entrepreneurship in the south coast and one of the things I do is always sort of just a pain point with the Mavicorp is having consistent branding across mobile devices where most people are listening to regain the show notes and clicking on the episode on my website and having consistent branding and before I launched this I just met up with one of the local graphic designers now in the south coast area and she created me a whole bunch of assets that I can use my Facebook pages my YouTube pages more importantly nice big and bold on the iPhone so when you're searching for it in iTunes you can find it and I would definitely recommend if you're getting really serious about doing this that branding is very important I know it's been said a lot in a lot of other areas but get some assets made for all of the different podcast places that you would be the major ones but think about other areas like YouTube SoundCloud and other places that you might get I wrote this book with a friend of mine about a year and a half ago it's thepodcastbook.com it has way more information technically on how to produce a podcast technical recommendations on microphones different levels of audio testing things that we did it's thepodcastbook.com you can get 100% free it's not a gimmick, not a lead, it's anything else it has all the more technical details in here if you go to thepodcastbook.com and use coupon code WCBoston2018 you can download that puppy for free Matt McGillis on Twitter, Matt report pageley.com, great hosting company that I work for and if you want these slides it's maricord.com slash slides you can download these slides I attempted it it's perfect, I'm just going to hit escape right here I just want to show you how super light weight this WordPress website is an idea of it, so this is the We Are Here podcast super light weight theme, I'm only publishing podcast episodes up here so I know I'm not going to be doing anything crazy I won't do any membership stuff so it doesn't look like the Dumps for Fire then it's the back end at patentport.com so it's just all about branding the podcast getting the featured images up here and this is one of the things this is why I think it's so important to try to set your branding emotion early on because the Matterport is like I never did this, I never sat down for even branding and had a template writing role and I was always like record a podcast spend a couple hours talking to somebody spend an hour or so editing it then you write the show notes yourself let's say and you're just like man this is tough, this is a lot of work and then the last thing you want to do is get a featured image out and then put text on it and try to make it look good so setting your branding emotion early, those examples that I showed you in that last slide just go up there real quick I'm able to just easily go in and take somebody's image, grab it from them throw it in here and it looks pretty good and I just ended the episode the back end for this website is 8 plugins so kids and their friends easy forms for MailChimp just to connect people up to sign up for the newsletter so they go to slash subscribe just super easy because most people are going to be on their phones, drop in your email and then click on the links to access the different publishing outlets Jetpack, Jesse just talked about that I primarily use this for stats because I don't even have Google Analytics look up to this it's just overkill for what I need it's a small, very focused podcast so if I can just see who's visiting through Jetpack's stats it makes it easy for me MailGun is just because forms get delivered to me Ninja Form is for a contact form Ceprod, Viral, Giveaway Pro this is really cool I forgot all about this and it's seriously simple podcasting for the podcast tool and what I do is I actually publish it on CastOS which is their hosted platform and I just grab a little embed code from the CastOS website and just drop in the player right to the body of the content and I just write a quick little snippet about what this is and people can listen to it right here one of the things I did when I watched this again right before the summertime is each store owner because I'm highlighting the small owner of businesses, most of them are store owners or service-based businesses I use this tool called Viral Giveaway Pro by Ceprod and I just create new giveaways so this is a great way to I think they'll be able to see it so it's not going to see the format revealed but basically what I'm able to do is people are able to go in and put their email in and share with friends to spread the word and win a chance to get a gift card from whatever entrepreneur I might be interviewing in that episode so that's a cool little way to when I just started launching to have more traffic come to the site, people who live in interested and I don't giveaways I usually get and just leads that aren't good, they're just there for the giveaway but I felt like in a local market people know these entrepreneurs they're generally interested to learn about them I felt like it was a good fit with good success rate and I've grown the email list probably up to 200 people so far it's only been about 4 or 5 episodes that's pretty good for a South Coast area so I'll leave it up to questions yeah they make it seriously simple I don't know if yeah as long as the cars can get as long as it's subscribing to the RSSP or can't subscribe to an RSSP then it should be able to yeah so this is their proposed version is it just the first 5 episodes that I put out so this does all the heavy work for you yeah so it's this main RSSP right here and that's what you drop into either I and soon as Google play or another service that might syndicate your episodes but again this is castOS it's very lightweight you upload your cover image put your names and stuff in there and you're off to the races if you were one of the same sort of thing what else do you have on having to pay for that production because I think you mentioned 75 dollars episode or something for yourself radio stations can do that some are extra broadcast others are more about a close circuiting there's some other variation which I'm sure you'd much prefer yeah it's a great question maybe how to monetize your podcast and when do you do it should you do it that kind of thing if I were to go back up to something like this from my experience I'm not a high production podcast I'm not sending it out to get one through a real audio editor so often I consult with people and I consult with a local state rep in my area and I say we should really do a podcast for the topics that you can talk about do something like that with your sound effects it's about a million dollars do not do stuff like this this is not easy work you really have to ask yourself in the early days I never did transcripts I never did show notes it was just the sweat equity of doing it myself you really just have to find out do you want to be paid for it the time you put in you need to do transcripts I think at some point you get big enough and you can start asking for sponsorship money I have a lot of thoughts about that I used to sponsor the narrowcore podcast I don't want to say it was easy to get money but because it's such a niche market and I built up enough of a reputation over the years I was able to turn to people like Patreon where I work now Liquid Web and other folks that had iTunes easy digital downloads I was able to ask them for money and to sponsor a show I think if you were looking to start a WordPress podcast now there's a lot out there and I think roughly people are charging maybe about $100 to $300 an episode for an ad spot depends on who that person is and what they're going after I don't think the same dollars translate to if you turn to like I don't know if you'll let say hey I get $10,000 $300 a month not even talk to you I think it's smart because like I mentioned earlier it does become a lot of work and if you're a solo person out there you're a freelancer, running a small agency you have so much other stuff going on that you eventually hit a wall if you're doing it at your one person shop doing it all yourself, you're like I gotta go out and sell this stuff and if you can get somebody to do show the woman that does it for me it's $45 an episode it's a no-brainer for me because I would sit there for like two hours staring at the screen like I remember what this conversation was again I can't even spell words so I would rather just give it to somebody else and do but being able to get to a point where you're big enough to hire somebody is definitely a longer strike, took me about two or three years to really start to consider spending a couple hundred bucks on producing this stuff I hope that sort of answers your question yeah, I've never used the local radio station to do that to do anything yeah yeah, I mean if they provide I've never explored that option but if they provide some kind of like production and editing or stuff like this that's pretty cool I have somebody else speak for me actually because I hate my own voice so the question is what do you do by voice how long should an episode be I'm done so it totally depends on where your podcast is I launched a podcast that was just like this others do three hours I do hate my own voice but I just roll with it if anybody wants to talk after I'm happy to