 Welcome. Welcome to Transformation Talk. Tairu Asan, I'm the director of Brightline and as you know, Brightline is a project management institute initiative dedicated to helping organizations bridge the gap between strategy design and strategy delivery. We are really privileged today to have with us David Franklin and David is the chief technology and operations officer at Empower and Vision. Brightline actually has built a solid partnership with Empower over the past few years and Empower actually believes that there is a better way. So it is an organization that empowers other organizations to effectively deliver their strategies and see results happen. Now let's turn and talk a little bit more about David before setting the stage. David is one of the brightest and also most creative IT professional that you will ever meet. He's a disruptor. We're talking about IT and we add disruption. So it is the kind where you may want to have actually you want to have him on your team. He is always looking to challenge existing ideas, systems and technologies and always also striving to develop something new, more efficient, more meaningful. We wouldn't want that. Of course he's begun as a self-made IT programmer and software engineer and he later extended his business and management experience with a Bachelor of Science in Management from upper Iowa University and also professional development certificate in executive leadership from the University of Wisconsin Madison. Welcome David. We are really, really happy to have you with us. Good morning. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. Glad to be here. Wonderful. And our topic today, as you've seen, it is about modern strategy execution, digitizing your strategy. And as we know, the world is our world actually is continuing to digitally transform and that involves the strategic plans. And as we're doing that, what we see for many organizations, these plans are either lost in spreadsheets or sometimes they're just sitting collecting dust on the binders and you may all have maybe experienced it or have seen it. People design, but the design actually doesn't become reality and the plan is just collecting dust. And the questions that we beg or the questions that we're wondering and that will be what we'll try to explore, how can you effectively execute your strategy and to see results happen, not just talk, not just plans, but actually that the plans becomes reality and they are not just stuck in manuals. Of course, as you're looking at it, there's also a call for us to prioritize to digitize strategy delivery so that you, your teams can successfully implement as well as measure because measurement is important, measuring the goals and the objectives. So in the talk that we'll have today, which will be more like a conversation with David, we'll discuss the common barriers that you may encounter when you try to digitize your strategy and what solutions you can use to overcome these challenges, these barriers, not only now, but also in the future. David will share with us some tips and also what tools we can use to evaluate the technologies that we have, that we may want to have for strategy implementation. So as I mentioned, it would be a conversation. We want it to be an engaging conversation. So this is why we'll be asking you if you have questions and so on to use the Q&A sections, if you have comment, to use the comment section, but we want you to get the best out of David and to get the information that you may need so that we can move away from organization designing, organization thinking, but organization not delivering, not getting the results. So let's get it started. David, just as a way of getting things started here, how has your career and technology led you to your current passion and expertise in modern strategy execution? Yes, good question. I think for me it's really been a confluence of different events. As you mentioned in the very flattering introduction, I started my world or started my career in the programming space, developing solutions that solve business problems, often custom in-house solutions. And I saw very early on as an individual contributor, as a developer, developing those solutions that those solutions were solving business problems, but they weren't necessarily helping the business transform. They were processing transactions. They were fighting fires. They were dealing with day-to-day needs. And you become acutely aware of how those everyday fires can ultimately impact long-term plans, because we always used to look at it from the standpoint of, are we working on planned work or projects? Or are we working on unplanned work that we weren't expecting to do, and is that unplanned work getting in our way? Along the way, I got fortunate enough to be able to elevate into a position of leadership. And at that time, I was really responsible for thinking of technology. I usually think of it as a business within a business. Our customers are, of course, the business is customers because we're delivering solutions that enable capabilities for the business. But really, our customers are the individual users and the associates from that business as well. And I realized that I needed to align the strategy that IT had in order to make sure that we deliver the capabilities that the business needed, not just after it asked for them, but actually starting to anticipate the technologies that they would need based on the new capabilities that were available in the world. We needed to align and deliver those technologies in a way so that the business strategy could succeed. And I was fortunate to work with an organization that really valued strategic planning and really valued getting the voice and understanding and hearing the voice of everybody throughout the organization on that strategy and helping to contribute it wasn't the typical stereotype of the top down, somebody descending down the mountaintop with the strategy carved in stone and saying, here it is, here's what we're going to do. They actually cared about what we had to say, the people who are boots on the ground executing every day. And between those things, the problem solving, the understanding that you had to focus on the long-term versus just here and now that ultimately led into our developing event power and vision. And I think it's just a tremendous tool. All these tools are really great for organizations to be able to use and start to digitize something that has historically been underserved when it comes to digitization. Excellent. And as we move on, of course, we want to hear from the audience here because we at Brightline have been saying strategy design is as important as strategy delivery. We'd like to hear in a poll that we just released now from participants, what is the importance that they're giving to it in terms of resource allocation. So I'll ask my colleague to show the poll so that we can hear from the audience. So we'll ask you to select one answer from the poll there. So we are asking basically, my organization invests the same or more resources into a strategy delivery as it does into strategy design. So if you could answer given the different choices or it's moving, this is great. Shout out to all people answering. We have over 70% participation. So this is exciting. It's stabilizing. 75% participation. 13 seconds to go. 80%. This is great. This is great. So I think the data is coming out here. David, like we're seeing about 48% are saying that they actually agree. So which is meaning that the people are putting the money where the talk is. And we have about 30, 35% that are saying either they disagree or strongly disagree. And then 5% who may not know the answer to that question. This will serve us and this is an important data to keep in mind. It will serve us as a segue as we move as we move to the other part of the discussion. Now, of course, I mean, people talk, but making sure that people work with talk is not always something that you see. And I would like to hear from you when you think about that guiding principle that strategy design is as important as strategy delivery. How does empower and vision align with that guiding principle and regard the importance of actually not just talk, but actually do? Yeah. So I mean, we really have valued the partnership that we've had with Brightline over the last few years. And I think we think we will always talk about a few things around our organization. We talk about communication, we talk about alignment, we talk about transparency as three things you really need to have from the top to the bottom in the organization to successfully deliver a strategy that you've designed. And certainly, we think that those align very well with the pillars that Brightline has put out, accountability, mobilizing the right resources, leveraging insights that you learn, deciding, being bold, causing action, favoring execution or favoring decisions rather and owning the decisions that you make. But obviously the most important is really acknowledging that strategy delivery is just as important as design. And what we're resonated with us is a study that I believe Brightline released in 2019 that indicated that every 20 seconds a million dollars was wasted globally due to poor elimination of strategy, which is a staggering sum when you really think about it. And it points to a couple things. And strategy is hard. It's hard to focus on that when there's near-term issues that you have to deal with. But we basically have tried to take through and create our system where it allows and enables people to do those hard things easier to be able to adapt to react to the input that you're seeing and not maybe bury that strategy up on a scale. If you think about it, if you talk about it, if you're acting about it and reacting to it on a daily basis, that will result in that delivery that is so important. That statistic actually is something I like because when we were saying every 20 seconds 1 million is wasted and we were extrapolating to a year, it was about 2 trillion. And when we were looking at 2 trillion, that was more than the GDP of Brazil. It's more, I mean, just about the GDP of Brazil, but more than the GDP of Canada or the GDP of Australia. And when we're looking in Africa, for example, it was more than the GDP of the seventh largest economy. So I mean, it just seemed to us that it was unacceptable and organization needed to be something to address it. Now, we're talking about modern strategy execution. How is that that notion of modern strategy execution connected with a guiding principle around strategy delivery? I think first we need to ask ourselves, would you rather have a really great strategy that you don't execute well or a good strategy that you execute very well? And I think most people would choose to execute very well, you know, just a good strategy. And I think that's very hard to do in today's world without digitization, especially as we've seen over the last few years where our workforce is just becoming more dispersed. We're starting to see disruptions come into the industry from technical giants that are out there, the Amazons and the Googles of the world. And we need to be able to respond and make decisions really very quickly as business leaders with a high degree of certainty. And I think the old way, you know, what we saw a lot of times was there'd be a lot of effort put into developing that strategy. We've talked about it a little earlier in this webinar even, but that everybody comes back to the office that gets lost on a skeleton, a binder in an Excel spreadsheet, it gets stuck. And maybe you look at it every quarter and we ask ourselves, how are we doing against our strategy? We're looking at metrics, which are obviously very important to an organization. But we're not, at that point in time, arming ourselves with the information that we can have to be able to make decisions fast enough to respond to the changing world around us. Because every quarter, by the time you're looking at that information, it's a lagging indicator. It's already happened. There was a decision or an opportunity to make a decision that you couldn't realize because you weren't looking at it on the regular. So when we talk about modern strategy execution, I think it all starts with taking your strategy and elevating it up into some way, some type of platform, platform or some way or paper form where you can make that visible to everybody and consistently evaluate how you are doing against that strategy. Look at leading indicators and leading metrics that support the objectives that you have. Understand how that ties into all the resources you have available. And ultimately, again, make those decisions faster with a greater degree of certainty that helps your business achieve all that it's potentially capable of instead of leaving things on the table. Awesome. And when we talked about that, one thing that comes to my mind really is one of the guiding principles that says check ongoing initiatives before committing to new one. Because when you don't have that visibility and when you don't look at how things are performing, you have that propension of just wanting to start new. Because the new is what is kind of exciting. But we're all right. Sometimes you don't want to even look at it, right? Sometimes, I mean, you have a dashboard that is shown that everything is green. But when in reality, you have umbers or you have all set of reds and creating that or digitizing the strategy and making it also visible, accessible and also live, right? That created context where you can react because no longer the cycle where you do one year, right? You do a one year planning or I mean, if you are planning and then you wait to see it is more like dynamic, it is more like fluid, it is more like reacting as well. And we're seeing the change that are happening there. Now, I think the business case for digitizing the strategy is a business case that people would make and people could see value in it. What I would like to hear from you as you've been in the trench and you've been doing that, what are some of the common barrier that you're seeing when it comes to digitizing strategy? Yeah, I think we've seen, there's a lot of things that come into play. We've seen four things that have seemed to stand out amongst some of the others and I'll list them off and then I'll go back and explain a little bit more what I mean. But the four areas that potentially are barriers are certainly in the leadership area of an organization, the culture of an organization, whether or not their culture is aligned to allow strategy implementation to really occur, whether or not there is a person or person who are really responsible for the governance of that strategy of an organization. So is there a champion and ultimately perceived, perceived a cost or the perceived time that it may take to do something that has historically not been a cost center within an organization? So from a leadership standpoint, you really need to recognize the importance of making sure that you create the space within your organization to be successful. A lot of leaders, it's funny how much money we'll spend, you mentioned always working on the new before committing to or always wanting to do new things before finishing up on the old initiative. Amazing how much money we want to spend and put into all those new ideas while not necessarily focused on the things that we're already started. Realizing that those probably would, it's money lost or time that's lost. And if you don't have the culture where you allow your team to contribute, then it's going to be very difficult to be successful within a strategy as it is. So I guess those are the four big areas we've seen, you know, leadership culture, whether you dedicate carve out space to the champion in the organization and then cost and time. Great. Now, of course, you've listed them and people will say, David, we know it or David, we sing that. I mean, in my organization, leadership is a challenge or in my organization, the governance is a challenge or in my organization, actually, every resource allocation is a challenge or I mean the culture. But what people also want is how do I tackle them? How do I, what tips I can use, what approach I can use so that I could actually go through these challenges and deliver their strategies. So maybe there are four that you listed, there may be more, but for these four, maybe you can take two or four and say what exactly you would expect from a culture perspective or what exactly you would expect from a leadership perspective. Yeah, that's a good point. So from a leadership perspective, perhaps the first thing, obviously, is recognize the importance of the behaviors that you model every day and how you talk about what you care about. You have to lead the effort to communicate strategy and you have to lead the effort to make sure that everyone understands from the top of the organization all the way down how the work that they do ultimately supports the organization's strategy. Does the worker on the line who's installing the widgets or turning the wrenches, do they understand that the work that they do, how that contributes to the objectives of their team, to the objectives of their department and ultimately to the objectives of the strategy or are they just there to collect a paycheck and do what they need to do, push that button and get the piece moved on. So you have to make sure that you're communicating that all the way down to the organization. So there's some ownership stakes that everybody feels so that they can feel empowered that they're important because those are often the most important workers that you have. I would say listening is also another key characteristic as a leader in order to create that culture. You have to listen and you have to be willing to hear other opinions and hear what people who might be closer to the problem have to say about it. And don't expect everything to be communicated up to you. A lot of leaders I've talked to a lot of people I've known in the past have really been expecting a report out. They always want to report out from everybody. Tell me how things are going. But you need to tell them how things are going. Keep people informed. If communication has to be a two-way street. From a cultural standpoint, some of those same leadership and the cultural problems kind of cross each other in terms of solutions. But certainly from a culture you can help shift behaviors. You can recognize successes and make sure that those are public that people can see. You can talk about failures in a constructive way and learn from them and determine what we can do to defend those in the future and make collaboration and make those discussions safe to have throughout your organization. And I think cost is probably the last of it. But champions, I talked about carving out that role, really dedicate some time and some space for somebody within your organization to help follow up on the strategic initiatives that you're executing. Because if your eyes aren't on it all the time, if there's not somebody at least who's paying attention, then it's easy to forget about it. Put it on the back burner and get distracted with something else. So you have to be purposeful about governance. That role has to be important. They're probably going to be somebody who is not have direct authority over everybody in the organization, but they're certainly going to have to have influence to let people know when they might be falling behind on a task or when something hasn't been updated in a while. But carving out that role within the organization of somebody or a group that is responsible for strategy delivery is really crucial, I believe. Excellent. And I just want to maybe double click on the leadership. Because of course, as you were mentioning, sometimes the leaders tend to be sitting in the ivory tower and not necessarily having a view regarding what is going on. And I like the point that you mentioned, I mean, collecting information, asking information, but because the leaders sometimes would get the individual information. So at least at the end, telling the bigger picture so that everybody, there is that transparency and so on. But too often the leaders feel like they need to get all the answers as well, or they need to provide all the answers. And sometimes just acknowledging that I don't know and I will find out or I'll go and find where I can get that answer would be quite interesting. Now, if we go to the culture part, the culture part, you will hear Peter Drucker say culture is strategy for breakfast. And we added that also culture with the structure within the organizations. Are there cultural elements as you digitizing the strategy? Are there cultural elements there that are also more conducive for strategy to happen? I heard you talking about the openness, but is there something beyond that? Yeah, that's a good question. I think, so obviously openness starts with it, but we talk about collaboration nowadays and a willingness to maybe share ownership. Sometimes in the past in my career, I've seen managers of teams or departments that are very focused on credit, maybe taking credit for the success of what's happening or maybe being very protective of their area and wanting to make sure that nobody else kind of messes with me. And so it's not, I would say that that's really important culturally too, is making sure that you as everybody who's a manager or director or leader within your organization is collaborative with each other and not trying to guard their own kingdom or be an empire builder. They have to do and collaborate openly and honestly with each other and ultimately share the credit of the success with everybody who has a hand in it. It's interesting you mentioned a lot of leaders needing to be able to provide the answers. I have found very specifically through my career that the more higher I get within an organization, the less answers I feel like I really know. And I have to rely on my team who has those answers and you have to be willing to do that and admit that I suppose right up front that you're not somebody who has every answer. Great. And on the resource part, we were saying dedicate and mobilize the right resources. And that one is something that I find quite interesting because I mean the organizations we go in, we have our retreat. It seemed like we want to conquer the world. And then you come back and then the resource allocation is not as efficient. Let's say we say we want to do this and then we're not willing to invest in it. And then we say this is priority, but then you say the initiative is a priority, but you're not giving it the resources. You're kind of starving it. And without that, I mean without the resources things will not happen. I'm seeing a comment from Chandra Muhabir. He's saying psychological safety is important. So basically creating that safe environment. And then let's move on to the next one then. Of course, we're talking about technology. And this one, for someone who is starting, for someone who maybe is going for the first time through the digitalization, digitalization of the strategy and so on, is there. Sometimes I don't necessarily like that word checklist, but maybe a prompt, if I could, for the lack of a better word checklist, where people could look at which features, what features of your organization should consider when researching strategy execution technology. So when you're looking for technology that you may use, what should we should you be looking at or looking for? Yeah, that's a great question. I think that I think that one of the things we want to make sure is when you're looking for technology for strategy execution or strategy delivery is what's that solution built with strategy delivery in mind. We've seen a lot of tools that have come into the public consciousness recently or in recent years that are what I would consider more of a task management tool. It's not necessarily designed to connect the activity that those tasks are achieving to an overall strategy. And sometimes we're looking at the wrong tools in that standpoint. So just look and make sure that it was built for strategy, that it was built to connect those day-to-day tasks to the overall organization's mission and vision. Is it straightforward and easy to use? Because when you introduce technology into an organization, one of the first things after you talk about how much does it cost is how easy it is to use and how are people actually going to leverage the platform. So definitely look for ease of use and design for any platform that you choose to introduce your people. Can you effectively execute your strategy in 30 minutes or less per day, for example, if you're using the platform or is it really going to take a lot of time for people to learn something new? Visibility is key because the software gives you a high level view in real time, which is sometimes an overused term real time. But can you see updates as they happen? Can you see the metrics that get updated as they happen? Can you see a view where that all rolls up to your overall strategy, giving you that one vision of truth? Does it provide leading indicators that are a heat map of your overall strategy and help you know without spending a lot of time deep diving into every single area, just to let you know at a glance where things are in the red, for example, and where you need to focus your attention and your resources in the near term to fix something that might be going off track. You know, software is important. Of course, we think the technology company, but you also would want to look for and determine whether or not the organization you're working with has the comprehensive support services to make sure that they can be your partner throughout your journey. Are they giving you software and an online guide and saying, you know, go nuts, good luck, you know, hopefully you figure out how to use it, or are they willing to partner with you along the way and make sure that you have every resource that you need to be successful? And does it align people for cross functional collaboration on that, that living plan? Because once you start to execute something, I forget who was the stroke will figure that it, but you know, no plan survives first contact with the enemy. You know, does it allow you to make changes or once you put it in, are you stuck? So you want to be able to change very easily and adapt and be flexible. So I would say that that's a big key focus area as well. Absolutely. And actually, they go on to say after say no plan survives first contact with the enemy and then they say the first thing you must do is to plan. So you plan and then if it doesn't go as you wanted, then you adjust, you adapt, and then you move on. We're getting questions coming from the Q&A. So I encourage people to continue to ask. I will start taking the questions. But before going to the first one on the adoption part, because you were saying you need to look at the ease of use and so on. For so many technology, David, the challenge is not necessarily the technology. The challenge is people using the technology. I was at the web summit last year and there was an organization presenting and they said 84 percent of digital transformations, the ones that were failing, for 84 percent, it was due to the lack of adoption. Meaning the solution is brought in, but the employees and sometimes it could be even the leaders are not using it. How in their pros that you use, you kind of soften it so that actually from a get go, you have that, at least people are owning it and using it. Yeah, I think that it starts out with, I mean, that's a good point. I mean, it does start out with being easy to use. It's got to fill value right off the bat. So somebody has to understand why they should use a tool and what they're going to get from it. How is it going to make them more successful and make the organization more successful? And so it kind of goes along with that comprehensive services statement that I meant. What we do is we try to not only teach people how to use the tool, but we teach them why. When can you use it and how can you use it to improve your meeting? How can you use it? Yeah, so for example. Great, great. Let's go to a question by Nadia. Nadia says there is a lot of talk about strategy design and execution in a practical sense, but not so much about the actual practical practice too and don't of actual strategies like digitization, example, data availability, onboarding, tool fatigue, integration, et cetera, et cetera. It looks like Nadia has had a lot of experience with that. What are the practical things necessary to digitize strategy? Well, I think you want to know where, you know, as a business, you need to know where your focus areas need to be. Keep it simple. Don't try to boil the ocean. Might be one thing I would say. And you would like to make sure that you identify not only upfront, you know, not only what is your target for your objective, what is your strategy or your vision for that specific objective look like? What does success look like? Define that. But how are you going to measure it? Where is the measurement data going to come from? You know, any tool is only as good as the data that gets into it. Of course, a lot of tools are going to have ability to integrate with other transactional systems where that data might come from, which is great. But if you don't know upfront not only what your target goal is and what you're, how you're going to measure it, then that wouldn't, wouldn't lead to success in implementing that tool or being able to actually digitize your strategy because you're going to have information which is not either accurate or misleading. Excellent. So let's move on and let bring Brittany in, Brittany Ray. And the question here is, can we start small with digitizing strategy? Is it easy to scale solutions across our organization as we grow? Yeah, that's great. I mean, a lot of times we'll see people do that. They'll start with a department that might be a little bit more, not necessarily trying to, again, put the idea of not boiling the ocean, start with a department that can implement a new way to practice strategy implementation in that department, realize some success and then use that department's lessons learned either in adoption or in culture or in governance and then roll that out to the broader organization. It's definitely, definitely a great way to start out with that process instead of trying to get everybody involved. Once find the coalition of the willing and make sure that they have the time that they can dedicate to it and improve it out first. Excellent. And we get one question from Marcus, Marcus Finch-Skal. He said, employee and stakeholder are the key for any transformation. The Brightland Transformation Compass entails inside out employee transformation, a set of tools to make the transformation personal for your employee to connect the aspiration to the North Star and to your customers. The question is how did you implement this important component and could you give examples? So basically, if you take the Brightland Transformation Compass, there are five blocks and one of the blocks is about inside out employee transformation. So do you have any insight to share if you ever use it? The best example I can think of for something like this is not so much in the delivery of the strategy, but in the initial design, making sure that you get the involvement of many or the involvement of all depending on the size of your organization. The business, the leaders of the business, the executive team is going to have some ideas on the direction that they want to go and the ultimate goals. But as we've talked about previously today, they're not going to necessarily have all the answers. So involving as many people within the leadership team as possible to say, to see the goals of the business and say to them, okay, you know where we need to go, what do you need? What resources do you need? How are we going to get there? What does your department look like? Maybe what do your people look like? What are the goals that they have that would help contribute not only to their personal growth and development, but ultimately making that strategy successful as well. So if you start to involve everybody within the organization up front, I think that becomes much easier to make sure that that inside-out turn transformation can occur. And I just want to call out also that in the compass itself, toward the end of the compass, we give two examples of a company who have done that. We give the example with Santa Clara Medical Center. And we also give the example of a very signed organization that have used, I mean, the principle that I'm the transformation compass and applying it. We also, for people, because we were questioning about the practical path as well, we did some, what about 10 case studies of organizations and some of them are Saudi telecom company, I mean, still case. You have also the American Red Cross, you have a civil children. We did a few examples where we were showing practically what organizations have done. Because, of course, I'm a firm believer that there is, sometimes you come into talk, there is the talk, this is good, this is what you need to do, but sometimes people also want these positive examples, or sometimes even the learnings from the failures so that organization can learn and be better at it. And one of the examples of still case, for example, they did have what they call strategy gems, meaning that they got period during the year where everybody within the organization discussed the strategy. Everybody kind of, again, any challenge that they have, any question that they have, any way they can enhance and improve and so on. So people feel really engaged. It's not just the organization say, okay, we're going here, but it's also bringing the people with them, seeing what are their aspiration of the individuals and then creating the conduct that will allow the organization to deliver it. Because I'm a firm believer at the perspective that if you take care of your employees, if you do take care of them, really, but take off your business and they'll take off your organization and they'll help you actually get the return that you're looking for. And it could be a financial return, but it could also be social return and so on. So the impact that you're trying to drive. So very, very timely questions and great point about Marcus, really appreciate that. Now, I know, I mean, we can take more questions as well if the department have questions. Let look at maybe next steps, because we are in the workshop where we are in the talk today and people may wonder what happened next, right? So the question for you, David, is how do you bring the idea of modern strategy execution back to your organizations? And if you're a leader here, how do you activate the leadership team? Because one thing that I see some organizations, especially the known, some that may claim not to be native IT organizations, digital organizations may have challenges. So how do people take it back? And so that people can start taking action and see the benefit. I think I think the first, especially if you're in an organization that maybe those who answered the poll early on about that they didn't think their organization dedicated is not as many resources to deliver as they did the development, the strategy design. You know, I think the first thing is to start asking some some questions of yourself as a leadership team, you know, what what do you do every day or what are you doing today to influence tomorrow? Are we as an organization doing what we said we were going to do? Are we evaluating how that's going? Are we responding to and changing based on that evaluation and how frequently does that occur? So some self introspection and some analysis might be a good first step to lead towards ultimately deciding what sort of changes do you want to make within your organization to ultimately take advantage of the opportunity to be more successful. If you were 10% more effective in a specific business line, what does that mean to your organization? Does it mean 10% more revenue? Does it mean 10% less cost? You know, start defining some areas that if you were looking at things in a different way, what potential results are out there? What are you leaving on the table? And ultimately, small steps, small incremental steps towards that process will get you where you need to go because success typically breeds success. Excellent. We have a one last question and that question is coming from Marcus. And I'll try I'll try something that I'm trying to experiment to see if it will work now. Are we able to bring Marcus live or Marcus, are you able to maybe come live and share your question? I can read it as well, but just checking with my my team here if we could let Marcus ask the question directly. It is a test here. So if it doesn't work, I'll just read the question. Sure, I'll bring him up. Okay, Marcus, can she speak now? Okay, Marcus said to read. Okay, good. So let's let's move on. The question that Marcus had was to what extent do you involve your customers in your transformation journey? I think that's for the way I would look at that is we want to be a resource to our customers to help them with their transformation journey. Certainly, we can share our own experiences to our customers to be able to help them be more successful. But ultimately, when we want to implement our process or when we help our customers implement our platform, or when we help our customers think about how to better activate their strategy within their organization, we want to get to know you because every customer is unique. We want to get to know the things that are important to your organization, the challenges that you've had and collaboratively together, we can come up with a way to help you as a customer on the transformation journey, which is the most impactful for your organization. Really, there's no two organizations that are alike that will also have similar challenges and similar problems. But we want to make sure that again, we're a resource to our customers to help them through that process. Wonderful. And I mean, this is just great. I'll just show one example in terms of practical one also as part of the Santa Clara Medical Center case that is a future in the Brightland Transformation Compass. They were trying to see how they can improve patient flow for patients coming in and how they can improve patient flow. And they did in terms of track patients and try to see where were the bottleneck, where were the challenge. And they soon found that one of the challenge to facilitate patient flow is when the patient occurred, where do they go after? So let's say we got the treatment, but where do we go? And they've soon found out that many of the patients actually didn't have a place where to go. So then for them, it was better to stay as opposed to go. So what they did then is looking at downstream, trying to find places where they can actually help or places where they can bring people after they've done the treatment is done. So that was quite insightful in terms of them following the full journey to understand where the challenges are, where the pain point are, and try to address them. They also look at in adjacent industry. They did look at the airline industry, you know, when you would see planes coming to the gate and leaving the gate and so on. So they were using it elsewhere as a mechanism to help them improve flow in the hospital. Last but not least, they also look at hotels, you know, the hotel change rooms and cleaning rooms and so on. So they use that to also information where the practices in the hotel to actually help them here. David, thank you so much for taking the time to provide us these insights. And thank you also to the participants for the engagement. I mean, we had about 90% of people who answered the poll. And we are really looking forward to continue to engage our participants, the audience regarding the importance of not just thinking, but actually also doing and driving the result. And the importance also for the strategy that we have, what we can do to digitize them and make us getting real tight data on which we can act. And I think you've said this stage, you made the case for it. And I hope more and more organizations do do embark on it. I'll give you the closing word if you have any final thoughts to share with the audience. But big thank you to everyone. Thank you, Tairu. I just want to say I really appreciate you having me on today. And, you know, I hope that everybody who attended got some value out of this conversation. And I wish you all the best of luck on your own strategy journey. Excellent. Thank you. And take care, everyone. Have a good one.