 name so you ready Scott all right let's go all right okay so it's 632 I'm gonna call the February 15th DRB meeting for the city of less extension to order now and number one are there any additions or amendments no additions or amendments but I can read the hybrid meeting script that's okay that would be perfect okay this meeting is a hybrid meeting held both at to Lincoln Street and on Zoom because there may be technical difficulties or reasons that otherwise the otherwise prevent or interrupt remote public participation is important to note that the open meeting law only ensures the public's right to participate and comment at a public meeting by attending at the designated physical location as posted in the notice and agenda if a member of the public or the published body has technical difficulties accessing this meeting remotely please alert us by using the chat feature on Zoom or by emailing our Mahoney at sxjunction.org in the event of a technical difficulty that cannot be resolved we may continue this meeting if necessary to the next meeting March 21st at 6 30 p.m. at to link Lincoln Street sxjunction please note that all votes taken during this meeting that are not unanimous will be done by roll call vote and it brings with the law and then it says to take attendance but all members are present except for Robert mountain I was just going to ask for the person who's dialed in Robert is that you know if you're present and if I don't hear anything might be MIA look hi this is Carlos Molly we live at 6 3 I can't get into the Zoom on YouTube so we called in awesome okay well thanks for joining us all right so I know that it's not here yet yeah he may be here later or we're absolutely but all right with that I'll turn it back on you good number two is public to be heard this is the chance for any member of the public in person or on online to comment on something that's not on the agenda is there anybody who wishes to speak to the DRB at the moment about something not on the agenda hearing on we'll move on to number three review of our December 19th meeting minutes which you all had in your packet I had no questions or comments does anybody want to make a motion to approve I motion to approve the minutes any second seconded any further discussion anyone else have comments I'll all in favor of the minute does issued motion carries unanimously thank you item 3 is our first public item 4 is our first public meeting item number one on that is a conceptual site plan to convert an existing duplex into a triplex with two additional parking spaces at 4 Church Street in the MF 3 district by John Geru owner would the applicant and anyone else speaking on behalf of the applicant like to come up to the first chair there and I don't have my official language but you're gonna have to raise your hand I have it if you want to read it on behalf of the chair I'm just gonna for you and real quick so go ahead and read and just repeat after me see I hear by swear the evidence that I thought I hear by swear that the evidence I give in the cause under consideration shall be the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me God or under the pains and penalties of surgery so to say I do yes all right all right so introduce yourselves for the record and and then we'd love to hear about your project I'm Patrick Geru and this is my father John John Geru so we've we've got the application normally we we we have a staff report and we do like to get a little bit of information about what you're proposing to do there that we've got a little bit of a plan I think I'm I'm just kind of more interested maybe in in sort of on site what happens like what do you see from the outside what I know we're talked about adding some parking spaces can you walk us through that a little bit okay and and is there a drawing that went without on as a site yeah I have it right here I'll pull it up this is the existing I'll try to roll back and forth and I'll pull up on I'm working on it it's it's going to sleep I just need to be able to get to the top of my task bar but I've got to do things and then all this Google Maps but a basic junction at the center of the universe or something of that at least tracking cookies and knows where I am here it is yeah so here's the picture of it all right so here's the existing plan for the existing assist the ground floor I believe stairs up to the second floor pages over there there are other here's a site plan so the existing family dwelling it may be a little hard to make out but let me know if there's anything you need to see better all the men so there's here and then church street and then down this private drive there is existing parking here and then proposed parking in front of the existing garage as many times as I've done or walk down that street I just oh my gosh I love that how so cute yeah all right so and and based on the staff report there really no issues of this no issues that I find for the parking count I just estimated that there are three existing parking spaces but as you can see from the Google Maps view here you can see that there's more room if people want to work you know and hand them behind each other yeah so the existing and the proposed I think would be right here yes or the existing garage and the residents enter they have the they have doors at the front and the back and do you need that are you adding any anything to the outside of the building in order to create a third entryway or is it accessed from the same one of the existing doors there well there's a there's already an entrance okay to the which is different okay you strictly go to the basement so if you okay right there yeah so that's there's four steps and you're right down so it's already all you got to do is finish it off or whatever and you already got a tall set well it's a lot of is already finished because that's how they were you it was being used as with the first floor and the basement was used as one apartment I will clarify the existing dwelling is a duplex with the basement and ground floor as one unit and then the upper floor as a second unit and post change is to make it so that each floor is a separate unit so the basement is one the ground floor is one upper floors one okay and it looks like you're just changing really the you're adding a bathroom and a kitchen to the basement yes that looks like which used to be the laundry room the basement for the one unit and I got to change the window in the in the bedroom okay so it's accessible enough for fire egress okay so I got that's the only thing on the outside yeah actually changing okay so when you go from a duplex to a triflex are there other fire code things that kick in because now it's almost it's like a small apartment building instead of just a duplex of you well still under under the fire marshal yeah laws anything over a duplex yeah two or more so it's still okay any other lights or other anything else getting out of to the outside of the building the power panel has to be changed because you're going from a two to three so yeah other than other than that like other exhaust like with the now that you have a kitchen in the basement you have to add any exhaust I'm thinking there'd be more you have your bathroom yeah and for like kitchen well it's electric there's no gas in it so okay but yes is there just one point of egress or are there multiple points of egress from the basement it's just one door and then the egress window that it has to be installed yeah I just had one question on the staff proposed conditions and that was the parking area shall be of hard surface or gravel does that matter is there a requirement in our code that let it be bathed or is I don't think they're I'm not sure off the top of my head I can check but I do remember that it was on the application that you requested gravel or you suggested gravel yeah so it was his preference for that I can check in the LDC and see if that's required or anything but I feel like there's a requirement but I don't want to overstep my authority so I would say that if I mean you've got a basic condition that says you got to comply with the LDC so if it turns out you need a paid parking area then you would just have to be paid okay I will pull that up so I don't mind just putting that in as a condition that the project will comply with the requirements of the LDC and I think we should just I'd like to see this on every application where there's a additional reviewing authority involved like the fire marshal we should kind of make sure we remind them that they have an obligation to go satisfy those other authorities so something to that effect I think is is good and I have no problem Vermont State Fire Safety and does that like mean that our fire department or no they don't walk through where the state like a single-family home and sometimes a duplex doesn't need to be there are very few regulations yeah now fire and building safety code but once you hit sort of the next year then then they kick in so before it's occupied a state fire official they have to do on special okay yeah all right anyone else do we have any members of the public that would like to comment on the project anyone online like to comment on the project yes this is carlis mauling at 6th Street we're next door okay and I have to say in those 38 years they've been a fair amount of activity in that apartment building there's been police calls on multiple occasions the last tenant that was there I guess trash the place the debris and the garbage and just stuff all over the house outside was horrendous and that's not a a new thing that's happened over the years you know there's been some good tenants I'll tell you the majority of the tenants in the last 38 years have not treated that property very well and some of them have just been very bad news so that is a concern now that you're gonna add another apartment to that house I know there was a tenant a couple years ago they got the fire marching ball because there were no railing on the upper porch and there is mold issue and it's just been kind of an ongoing issue that we've noticed and this is not a new problem so that's my two part two steps are there any outstanding violations on this property either city you know issues or other do we know none that I could find okay I mean they may not be if there haven't been any citation that you I think there's a rule it says if you have any you can't apply for another permit so but if there aren't any in this I I'm not sure exactly what the we've run into this a number of times you know the the planning commission or the DRB isn't really the enforcement wing of the of the city so we don't really have a way to to do much about the complaints but I think City Council and it has been an avenue and certainly you know we are kind of beef up our enforcement in general as as a city and so if there are complaints of things that we should be doing your your best bet is to get after the city officials not the planner so much as the people in charge of of the enforcement so I'll leave that with Jennifer and the parking as it is now the parking basically has room for two cars so going forward are they gonna all they're gonna have to be tandem it looked like there were three cars parked there already unless I was missing something on the Google picture is one of the driveways maybe not part of that that house it belongs next door so they'll be responsible for according to the application five parking spaces they this the city has regulations on what those parking spaces are and some can be tandem so they'll be required to create and demarcate somehow those five spaces before they'll have a certificate of occupancy oh well actually the requirement is they are only required to have three parking spaces which they have already or at least sufficient one per unit so they're asking for five they wanted to add on too yeah so in my opinion if they are saying they're gonna create five we want to see five and or we should tell them they don't need five so I just wanted to clarify here so then this driveway this driveway that I'm circling here this is on the property on your property yes so how many parking spaces would you say that the proposal or the finished version of this would have because you're proposing the two here is it accurate to say that there will be approximately or that there will be five spaces or actually the there would be you could be six yeah because see the driveway on the right okay there's more than two you can you can put two cars there and then right if you go back on the other side yeah okay yeah right there see right they put two side-by-side okay and then the other one I'm putting two more adding two more so that's six right here yeah which is much more than you'll actually need you're only required to have three but I but it's nice to have two parking places per apartment all right I understand and six is the one down here to the bottom right that was yeah anything else from the audience I'm guessing there's one now but I don't know where it is where where's the trap trash receptacle each each one each apartment has their own ends yeah and there's and there usually they put them in the back yeah you know right under right where the porch is oh by the porch yeah right there yeah right where that car is the blue car where the blue car is there's a porch with enough space to foot line up the trash and recycling yeah and is that trash collected on the basis of the apartment building or is it on the individual owners to individual each individual unit handles their own trash how was you plow the property and where does the word he visit it does a visit somewhere I'm sorry when you plow are you fine into the property or yes so from the road on the right hand side where that car is it gets plowed up to the barn and then from the other side it gets plowed across the right of way because that property is also yeah and in some cases okay the we have I have the tenant do their own because sometimes too difficult so right now the one there where you know with the blue car and the other one right now they they do their own and if they don't is that a requirement the lease and I'm just imagining the case where somebody ignores the trash no all that's in the lease it's in the lease yeah yeah I mean it in a lot of ways it's it's not really I mean you already have a functioning building doing this already so we're not necessarily trying to pick it apart but I guess if we hear their issues the week we can always require or ask that these things be improved or shown on the plan or you know is there is there a screening requirement around the trash at some point you know not everybody does that in residential stuff but as soon as you hit three you might be regulated I didn't include the trash requirements I should add that on here yeah the requirement in the LDC is that it's I was on this chapter earlier today so how about we add that to the items that we'll check on and include in the catch all that you have to comply with the LDC yeah I'll add them on and it is there an opportunity to add a screening requirement I'm just thinking so LDC it's section 706 J includes that all dumpsters or trash containers located within any district shall be screened from view from the public right-of-way by non-transparent fence and or landscaping materials to hide of six feet dumpsters shall be covered and drain plug shall be installed yes it's already a requirement here yeah and it's a benefit an apartment building with a real dumpster I'm I it means more to me than if it's you know individual apartments without their trash cans there could be you know yeah mall 30 gallon things I just we need a little clarification on that so we know what we're trying to ask the last these guys to do okay see what happens to the tenants during renovation what happens to the tenants during renovation today oh then they were they were gone oh there's no tenant anything this is Carlos Molly again I can't see but again the driveway that runs along the side of the house I don't know how you're going to fit two cars and then two cars behind it because it's a single driveway I understand the two parking spots that are often right away that goes to the doctor's office but to then put two cars up to the barn and two cars behind it it doesn't fit I mean after 38 years I know what cars can fit there and in the wintertime with snow absolutely not so I was it going to be four in a row like tandem is the driveway is the same size as ours we cannot fit two cars in that one driveway side by side of the driveway which is really the one in the rear of the park in the rear of the so there the tandem parking is is end-on-end so one behind the other which is fine yeah yeah yeah there is a question from someone on zoom Marcus Serra has joined and he asks in the chat is there a limitation on percentage of impermeable impermeable surface on properties in the LDC the answer is yes this proposed change will cover 22% so the lot coverage will be at 22% the maximum allowable lot coverage in this district is 40% so it is well under the requirement thank you I mean in a lot of ways this is about adding a couple of parking spaces which they don't actually need mm-hmm so I guess I would close the public hearing unless anybody else has one last come all right let's close the public here all in favor of closing public hearing please say hi hi pose motion carries so the public hearings closed I would entertain a motion to approve this with the staff comments and conditions as proposed including the additional comments that we made on fire and trash yes a motion to approve this as John stated second any further discussion all in favor say I motion carries thank you yep so I was supposed to say this maybe at the beginning of the meeting but I do have a conflict with the next item thank you and so I have to step away and come in and present the improvements to Lincoln Hall and so one of you gets to take over as acting chair for I'm not ready I know I think it's because Robert usually sits here I'll leave it we haven't really rehearsed this so I'm gonna leave it up to you to work it out is there a designated alternate when the vice-chair is not here no it's usually just the vice-chair after that it's either vice-seniority or choice so you can we all have the same exact seniority I mean I have no idea what he does all of you I was all for doing it then I was like wait a minute I don't know he does and this is on the Lincoln Street the renovation I guess he's doing the design good yeah as as he's chair of the committee as well as the architect for this project he had to refuse himself and like step out leave that door and come in that one he didn't have to do he's like is there was that a dramatic choice yeah okay but yeah so that just in this way that whenever we're discussing the for the architect and stuff and that you guys okay so we are here to have a renovation design review for to Lincoln Street we have a witness would you like to walk us through the plans I would I do we need to swear you in you have to swear me okay I've got that Harlan are you gonna join us well anybody who may be speaking to this need should be sworn in sir we have control before right now you can swear me all right I'll swear you both then all right I hereby swear that the evidence I give in the cause under consideration I'll be the whole truth and nothing but help me God for under the pains and penalties of perjury all right okay so I'm Don Alden presentator presenter for Scott and partners who did the plans for I will say minor exterior improvements and a little more dramatic on the interior for upcoming modifications to support Lincoln Hall as our municipal city government building so generally what this project entails and you you have drawings mostly of the site plan and of the exterior in that you don't really have a ton of purview inside but the big issue is we're adding an elevator and we're reconfiguring the town clerk's office and offices upstairs to better support the flow of city government but the elevator is a big deal because it this building has never been fully accessible it will go from the basement to the second floor there are minor improvements on the second floor including parts of the teen center the elevator is going to go across the hall over here on the other side of the stairs where we're kind of getting into what is currently the senior center and we'll also be adding additional bathrooms and other community features including the probably the biggest exterior changes a new vestibule on the outside of the building so I don't know if you noticed as you came in tonight but the outside it's got cones and snow barriers and the sidewalks approach is a wreck all that would be repaired fixed up the vestibule will actually protect entry from the falling snow off of the slope it's above so that's a big improvement and it is designed to actually reinforce the existing architecture of the building so we've got an arch on the front of the building where then almost nobody ever comes in but there's a little porch out there with a nice little arch that lines up with the lobby here all the way through and so we're just gonna go a little bit of that on the new outside and the plans call for a little arch ceiling in that whole lobby area which will be the prime public interface location so you come in either from the front or from the back parking lot and you could you know get your licenses or look at your planning and zoning material pay bill having from the lobby if you need to you'll be able to continue on with supervision to the back to get to the vault and research documents and go on there or meet with the city manager or other city officials so the flow changes quite a bit in that we're concentrating the public in center portion of the building and then we leaving them fully capable of wandering into the front area of the you know this area here the conference room will still be here no changes to this room and that you can see the elevator all right so you're pointing okay yeah so this is if I point to the screen over here which is the one I can read they can't see but so from the conference room you can see two new bathrooms there one of them is in the senior center and one of them is the public bathroom I don't you know there there's some drawings there that aren't quite the whole there's a hallway between that back at the elevator and the remaining room of the senior center that is a public corridor that will allow the senior center people through the into the senior center or the public get right there right there right there it's at the graphic there a little there's a firewall there it's in case you want to know what the the black dots are locations where there's a firewall okay or a fire barrier a rated construction that separates one place from another so the senior center and then when we get upstairs the teen center the big room over the teen center that's essentially a separate building and it was originally constructed as a fire station by the way you might be able to find pictures of this kind of thing if you're paying attention to the pictures that are sitting along the hallway walls out there so so that remains kind of able to function on its own has its own exits they have their own bathroom but this would give just a little bit more option for anybody who is using either side so isn't currently you're using there's offices that are currently being used in the senior sitting room so that's our that's currently not being used by the senior center because it's already it's already been you already been it's in there her office isn't where like one of the bathrooms is going to be is that correct just trying to like orient myself no yeah the elevator and the two bathrooms are in the area where Joe International yeah okay you can see that the very end room which will end up being storage that's where Regina's okay for Jean's office yeah so the elevator the hallway and the two additional bathrooms and the drinking fountain will all be located in that area where room Ashley sits okay so again focusing on the things outside including the vestibules so the four gray squares with the circles in them are part of the mechanical system so those are essentially outdoor air conditioners of the condensing units this building has never had a reasonable air conditioning or you know really temperature control other than the steam heat this room is the exception has a mini split sticking to the wall there and the other units on the outside we're gonna leave that so the rest of the building essentially is getting all the this new equipment in order to take care of the mechanical and ventilation loads for the rest of the building the generator is the white rectangle just above those those units it it's it's so important to things in and around this building that has to stay we looked at moving it it's outrageous to move it that runs the lights at five corners and the fire station so I'm not I think there's one other thing that it runs but so that if that's not there things things are bad right five corners comes to a halt which has only happened about three times since I've been here the vault is well there's a transformer right next to the vault the ball has the red lines around it square there transformer also stays and we'll be bringing new cabling to that but the transformer ball can stay the all of the current switch gear that's mounted to the which is the electrical boxes and panels and so forth that's mounted to the side of the vault so that's all gonna move into the basement of Lincoln Hall and the people that used to work in the basement of Lincoln Hall will be moved out of the basement so it's only or let's say there's still be some file storage flat files and you know the big drawings and stuff they're still down there but people won't be working in the basement on a regular basis any longer they'll have offices either on the first floor or on the second floor there's the open stair now if you go into the clerks area there's an open stairway to the basement that gets moved because there's no second stairway currently from the second floor that goes anywhere the firescape outside the firescape comes off the door that goes to the firescape that used to be a window goes back to being a window the stair exit path from the second floor remains the open stair in the front which is legal and a new enclosed stairway in the back which will come down right next to the vault it will all go right to the basement so if you're in the basement here you can you can go up there if you're on the second floor you'll come down there and then there's a protected exit way through the middle of the office out the original front door of that back section which is currently chained off it's not not really used but good for emergency yeah so it should be an emergency it's really an emergency exit no one would normally use it it won't be an entry it won't look any different than it does now except it won't be a chain across the stairs and it's slight difference right now the stairway does not have cement in it in in front of it at the moment it just has mulch will be adding the sidewalk to go to that stairway now since it's going to be an emergency address okay yeah you mentioned the running new cables to the transformer is that from the structure to the transformer or is that from utility lines I think it's the whole utility line so our power comes off a pole it's gonna it comes through conduit underground they just replaced that two years ago from the pole to the transformer they just replaced it a couple of years ago and there was some discussions between our electrical engineer and green mount power we believe those primary lines coming to the transformer are sufficient as is the changes that we're gonna make are from the transformer away from the side of the vault we're going to continue underground come into the basement bring all of that switch here into the basement and get rid of that I saw her on the side of the vault so you don't think you'll have to upgrade what's coming in the conduit it's our understanding at this point from green mount power in our electrical engineer we believe we're good depending on what the overall electrical load on the building comes out to believe we believe that's going to be 800 amps or less okay and we believe everything there will support that that service and what's the right now I believe we're 600 at the moment so it's gonna be a 200 increase and that is primarily for the elevator which elevator and the equipment so I think we have some images of the outside there yes I've got you mean the 3d renderings over here well they're they're all kind of packed onto one page so there's a new best roll up just the hair yeah so there's the new vestibule you know we really tried hard to get the generator out of the way but doesn't doesn't seem to be in the cards so there's the there's the vestibule in the corner you can see it's it's styled generally in the way we took a lot of clues from the existing brick portion of Lincoln Hall there's a decorative band you can't see it on the color photo but it's on the I'll call it the north end facing the library and around the front there's a decorative banding up there which we're reintroducing along the just over the entry door there you can see that arches the same arch that's on the other side of the building the rest of it is just our imagination the parking lot and the curbing isn't accurate this is one of those 3d models where not everybody has control of the site plan so just imagine that being the parking lot there is a curb there the curb disappears at some point and the stamp concrete walkway that's out there now will probably be restored or or turned into just concrete I think we might be able to see that on the site plan if people want to go back to that do you mean the 3d no the actual 2d site plan that came from the video engineer yeah so that's there's there's still a plenty of stamp concrete there and then the actual sidewalk is it's going to be concrete which is a little nicer on the you know wheelchairs and so forth the hand trucks or delivery guys that are like going over the joints and the stamp stuff as much so there's an entry piece of concrete and then there's what's item number one on the drawing is the actual vestibule so I think it's restrike looks like he's going to restrike back there that whole area needs to be restriped and redone the grades of where the door is located to make it 88 compliant is considerably higher than where the sidewalk so there's there's a lot going on there in order to try to maintain our proper ADA slope into the parking lot so that whole section is going to require I wouldn't say a considerable amount of grading it's it's actually a minor within the parking lot itself but within the sidewalk and the stamp concrete there's some considerable trickiness that we've had to use to get those angles just right for the 88 to go from the the door height down to where the parking lot is and so will the door be accessible and will it be like you could hand a cap accessible it'll have to put in the handicap automatically open it's all wide enough for that yeah okay and then what about the walkway somehow being connected over to the library they feel like there's really no we actually looked at that early on and we really couldn't find a great way to create a walkway we barely get the cars in those areas at the moment so we have not been able to find we even looked at like China I'm assuming you were thinking maybe right in behind the fault on top of the curb well I mean you're walking through the party would just be nice if it kind of yeah unfortunately we were not able to find a path that you could sort of connected them all just in the idea that we want to connect all the sidewalks everywhere else there's physically not enough room to get a legitimate walkway through there it's not wide enough and so the only way to do it is to start pushing the parking spaces out further which means you lose all the parking spaces on one side or the other the generator here can't move so yeah and can you paint the generator a mural does it have to say why I don't think so I I don't think let me check to see if Chris included it we talked about wraps for the generator yeah that would be cool possibility there was a city council meeting where they thought about putting black dots on it make it look like a cow could be somehow a way to connect it to the library yeah just incidentally the city is evaluating the entry to the library again so that when you come down from there is our curve you go into the library right here the curve but it goes all the way it's ADA it actually is a ramp and doesn't come towards this building the ramp the accessible entry to the library is actually the back door yeah so this new one that were that were in the process of designing at the moment will make this side entrance ADA accessible from all the way from the bus stop and it'll redo the ADA accessibility from the back parking lot yeah to come around to this side as well and then to come to this building I mean through the slight ramp and going through the parking lot yes you would be able to come to this building which is there now but the steepness you can't get from the sidewalk you can't get a wheelchair yeah straight up onto that area this new design will incorporate it so that you can take a you could take a wheelchair from this building go straight across over and be able to get onto the ramp and go up yeah but I think that's important kind of make them all there is one small proposed change to the front of the building which is in the porch so you remember you have that entry lobby and you have you can see it in the drawings but there's one window now underneath the you know the arch of that porch and I was gonna do a little more investigation yeah that's the one you're talking about yeah it's on that page yeah it's not that porch yep I've just bumped over too far yeah the tiny little thing so we're proposing to add another window there in order to create a larger opening in the arch and get more daylight into that lobby it seems to make sense there's a janitor's closet there now so that kind of is why there isn't you know more than the one window I guess I'm personally still a little bit on the fence you know about it because in some cases you're really not supposed to alter the exterior features of a stark building that much but if we can even find a sliver of evidence that suggests that there was a bigger opening there then then it's probably okay so that it's a good idea we think it's a good idea for the use of the space the building has been you know manipulated and changed and altered many many times over its long and meaningful you know business it's it's been so many things hardware stores and taverns and inns and so forth so anyway we're we're saying that's a good idea we may have a little bit of work to do to convince everybody else that it can happen but we should just make sure people are aware of it there aren't really any other changes to the exterior of the building proposed though the entire building was repointed and and you know the mason he was repaired and the chimneys were repaired and the roofing tightened up five to eight years ago or somewhere around eight to ten years ago yeah it's been a while yeah so yeah so so that's really the the biggest changes will all be in the rear and they really support the function functionality of the use of the of this building as a municipal office so you know the place to drop your payments and vote and so forth all those services will occur at the vestibule the vestibule generous so people that are waiting for a ride or with something they can you know there'll be a bench out there and plenty of windows to look through circle on the plants this is the area that you were talking about the the added window yeah or you can see the outline for the existing janitor's closet there around the corner which would be changed in this way so that's being just condensed into a smaller well the janitor's closet goes away all together and what you're looking at there are the duck chases that will take the duck work from the basement up to the first second floor so we don't have enough room in the addicts or we thought about putting some of these units on the roof you know reinforce the roof so and you see them on top of the roof because that flat section of roof so the current plan is to put some in the basement and have some of the other units out out by the January I think in theory we get together to well actually what I like to have is actually have a you know as Raj Tala talked about having email address has to have a corporate email address versus using my private email address to deal with stuff because I am like are you getting back online oh you're back in okay sweet I turned on audio over here's the in case because I wasn't sure where the audio was coming from so now he's back in somehow that got sorted out I was gonna say we seem to be back yes also thank you Marcus for letting us know that zoom is still working YouTube and start yet YouTube has restarted okay so it should be okay I was just so just in case we need something on the recording end of things the question was about like parking and it potentially being a requirement through the planning which I am personally unaware of it although we've been entertaining the idea and looking for areas to put it in because I'm fighting within a budget I'm trying to find out what my requirement is so bike parking if I was to have like in the stamp concrete area a concreted bike rack that they can secure their bikes to does that satisfy yes the requirement yes that's a no-brainer we'll make sure it's no employees on the other hand might like to have you know a place where they could securely put their bicycles but I think that's what we have this wonderful basement on right now has access and we have the elevator and the interesting part about the elevator is the public will not be allowed to get into the basement via the elevator but employees will be the elevator will be keyed to get into the basement so as far as employee bike parking I believe a place in the basement and I would still the fire department uses this storage space out here for some materials but if it's not required I would still like to look at that as a sheltered bike area for the public as well I'll just highlight especially if you have the keen center upstairs correct it'd be nice to have them it's okay those that do bike I think if we take a look at that stamp concrete area for the entrance way it's got the door I believe there's plenty of room there to put a cemented in place bike rack similar to what we have at Maple Street Park yeah right over here around where the yeah I'll check what the exact thing is off the top of my head I think for commercial establishments it's a minimum of 4x but I'll check that my kids I'm gonna say the one that I'm thinking about there's a looks like we have a question from the public in the Zoom chat let's see one new message let's see right Marcus Serta says do you need the bike location on the property or can it be over on the library side both it would the regulation would be this building and in the new design of the library the library has a new bike location as well for security so there will be bike locations at both the entrance in the library and here at this location the previous bike location had been in front of those white doors it had been there and as we can see in the plans I think that's where it's going to go back the differences it will not be a bike rack that just says there that's going to be movable it'll be a permanent in in ground planted we have them over at Maple Street Park and they're extremely convenient yeah if placed correctly yes very much and and the idea that the basement will be available as nice to because right now it's right now it's a little bit of a spooky basement so I'm looking forward to it being a night I didn't say it was gonna be a nice base I said there'd be room for bikes it'll be nicer than it looks right now in 70s vintage little league stuff can we can go away we've already so parks and recreation has worked with a little league and we're finding storage space for them over there so they'll know you no longer be using the basement the senior center is downgrading on the amount of stuff that they were keeping in the basement so that space requirement will be minimal if not disappear altogether nice so yeah we've we've looked at the uses that's been going on down there and the majority of it is going away and will be utilized for the municipality itself clerk's office will need some because they've been using the vault over at the town that stuff will have to come in-house so they the vault in the basement still continues to work and we have the vault here so yes and then there will be potentially some other now they're miscellaneous there are some of which will probably happen over on the other side where planning is there is some talk about moving some of the planning documents and files to digital so that we're not taking up as much space with 12 to 20 filing cabinet so we have there we have a long history and we had and it'll be a long time before we get it all cleaned up but that is the process the city is moving into to become more efficient more effective there are so many filing cabinets down there I really I really do look forward to the possibility of getting everything organized I'll keep dreaming but yeah any other comments or questions from the public did we close the public hearing all those in favor say hi hi okay so DRB we have a fairly narrow scope here which is I believe look for direction from staff to determine whether or not the proposal is in line with 604 e so if it makes sense maybe we can walk through each of those criteria and check them off just second to that all screen to get up so 604 subsection V over here is involves design review and historic preservation we think it goes down to four yeah yeah 4b I'm just skimming through it so it's just saying point yeah to specifically 4b absolutely yes design district design requirements so okay so historic character of property shall be retained and preserve the removal of historic materials for alterations of features and spaces that characterize a property shall be avoided seems to me that the proposal meets that criteria folks agree yep each property shall be recognized as a physical record it's time place and use changes that create a false sense of historical development such as adding injector all features or architectural elements from other buildings shall not be undertaken sorry I think I'm in the wrong section which section are you reading 604 e B is it e 4b e 4b yes oh yeah thanks oh there you go because I was on a so that's right oh yeah because it's kind of breaks up everything yeah be there it is okay great yes so as witnesses pointed out the building has changed over the course of time but they have made a very strong effort to incorporate some of the elements in the facade of the vestibule that's being added also personally like bringing some of the fairways inside removing the fire escape and generally improving my perspective the aesthetic feel of the kind of back parking lot area while keeping in line with the historic nature of the building itself I agree okay moving on to the next most properties change over time those changes that have acquired historic significance in their own right shall be retained and preserved does not appear that the plan makes any significant changes in that space the with maybe the one exception of that additional window which brings some light into the entryway and yeah I believe significantly changes to start nature there's already a window there I'd say that it seems like a positive change is kind of in keeping with the style that's relatively small change to the overall external facade I don't see any issues with it distinctive features finishes and construction techniques are examples of craftsmanship that characterize a property shall be preserved believe a vestibule matches the design elements of this in building again the incorporation of the design there deteriorated historic features shall be repaired rather than replaced when the severity of deterioration requires replacement of a distinctive feature the new feature shall match the old in design color texture and other visual qualities where possible material replacement of missing features shall be sustained by documentary physical for evidence seems like it's doing that pretty well especially the window upstairs that was converted in through dollars converted back the same style of window that's good yeah it's a good example of that we heard that roof many other areas of the building kind of recently and retouched recently retouched repaired all that and of course also the decisions regarding the VAC system with the the new pieces that have to be kind of out front doing that in rather than the alternative of altering the roof further so that still also goes in that direction of trying to preserve what we currently have rather than altering it extensively so I think that's good may seem to be kind of behind the existing generator so screening for the generator but this generator is enough in and of itself kind of a screen for the addition of those units yeah new additions exterior alterations or related new construction shall not destroy historic materials that characterize the property the new work shall be differentiated from the old and shall be compatible massing size scale and architectural features to protect the historic integrity of the property and its environment I don't think we heard about any historical features being destroyed taken away here's the additive well other than the existing kind of a covered walkway in the front but then just changing that into a new vestibule and then there were there were actually two points above this I don't know if you skipped them on purpose or probably not no okay yeah the chemical or physical treatments such as sand blasting that cause damage to historic materials shall not be used the surface cleaning of structures if appropriate shall be undertaken using the gentlest means possible I don't think sandblasting is intended yeah so that one's good and then the other one also doesn't seem to be as relevant of significant archaeal significant archaeological resources affected by a project shall be protected and preserved if such resources must be disturbed mitigation measures shall be undertaken so if we find anything significant archaeo archaeologically we'll take those measures but granted with the location and the scale of this renovation it's highly so yeah probably not relevant at all and then I'll head back to you for number 10 new additions and adjacent or related new construction shall be undertaken in such a manner that it removed in the future the essential form and integrity of the historic property and its environment would be unimpaired yeah so I think that's possible do you think yeah even where the vestibule was going in if that was to be removed because it's gonna be attached to the current walls that are there right it would literally be detached from those walls that those brick surfaces would be repaired and filled in and the exterior of the building would come right back to what it originally was yeah and then of course just retouching the siding on the outside so and we're doing that where we're removing the the fire escape all of those bricks will be repaired where that fire escapes been mounted to the side of the building right so we're taking care to make sure I'm in love with this building so we're trying to make sure that we take care of the features in it it is love it's gorgeous yeah is there a reason on the staff report when looking at the do page to going into three starting at number three where it's section so for E4 a states and then it starts listing everything we get one through four but there's a five and five isn't on here I think it's just because five is on the next page of the LDC so it might have just got off your floor so five is site features and design shop remote cycling which something about cycling walking and transit as viable means means transportation and recreation for residents consumers visitors and employees of the application features showing at least two or more of the following so this is probably why we didn't have this in the in the staff report left this section off but yeah pedestrian access directly from the building to the public sidewalk which we established with the extension of the existing sidewalk front pocket park with benches or similar amenities between public realm and the private building as we talked about the bench in the vestibule provides a place for people to sit and wait for anyone they may be waiting for or something pick them up public art murals or interactive games interactive games sounds fun but like I said there's the option of applying a wrap to the generator if we wanted to turn it into a mural covered both bus shelter and shade trees we have trees for not removing anything or adding any and then the bus shelters on that way I have a question about the wrap if that would be something pursued who kind of proves the visual design of that rap I am not sure I off the top of my head I would guess it would be the planning commission or apps city council maybe I'm not I'm not entirely sure where that would fall not that they would I think you know they're going offensive wrap but it could be source of discussion among the president so far the only discussion planning commission is trying to encourage public art murals and yeah I'm guessing if the DRB knows what they are doing they would hopefully involve the city council in this public art project yes nicely do that way and I know that we talked about it the planning commission with the latest changes to the section on signs there is a section on murals so if that was adapted this would count as a mural and would have to comply to those parts of the new section which again we're just still in processing editing and hasn't been adapted yet but timeline wise if that was adapted first then or adopted first then yeah so we're looking to do here would be to approve this design review with potentially requirement that there be quite parking near the vestibule and then what would be asked staff to to coordinate contact city council to coordinate the artistic elements of the generator wrap I don't know well the the wrap for the generator is a suggestion of it's it's an available option I don't know if it necessarily needs to be required but if you think so we've always good the bicycle parking yeah I could add that on as a condition of approval which should be but I'm not seeing it but yes there should be bike storage part but we've already talked about it and I would if we are going to discuss the generator I would like not to be pigeonholed by a wrap and be allowed to also have creative painting applied to it as well if we're going to change it yeah we have some great artists within our community who may be able to come up with some sort of a design or maybe it could be a new public thing yeah so make your entry to design our generator that I can't hopefully idea there a discussion from board so then I would be looking for a motion to approve the design review proposal the proposed changes to the exterior exterior of Lincoln Hall to Lincoln Street and importance with the design review and historic preservation review criteria outlined in 604 E of the LDC with the requirement that the bike parking be added I motion to approve seconded all those in favor hi I post all those but no option to thank you and I don't know if you want for the record I never introduced myself when John and Harlan Smith I'm carrying sort of two title grounds and facilities director for extension recreation and parts and the city of us extension building coordinator excellent thank you thank you thanks I don't thank you oh I really like the design I'm a surprise because you open it from this side right I was a drama only works it was good the drama only works one way okay well that resume chair duties thank you very much for filling in those well done and we have another development item 5a on our agenda sign application determination for replacement of a freestanding sign at the Essex town offices of 81 Main Street in the PRO his district historic preservation overly so I have a little background on this because I redid 81 Main Street and at the time we were trying to replace the sign but I don't think we ever built any consensus around that it's been kind of that diagonal with that was reminiscing of 81 Main Street before it got renovated so I think it dates from the 60s or 70s I can't tell you was before my time but there have have been many discussions about replacing that song so with a little help from Mother Nature it sounds like it's the time to go now and so we can dive right into that right so this one the only reason that this coming up is DRB issue as you've seen in the memorandum relating to this is because of a sort of a discrepancy in our zoning regulations around signs specifying that let's see I have to find the exact part yes so in the section on things in the village center design review is required by the DRB for any proposed construction reconstruction demolition or exterior alteration of any building in the district with the exception of sign permits which are approved administratively however a different section refers to the saying the purpose of the design review overlay district is to expand the design review standards used in the village center district so saying that the exception of signs would expand out however there's another thing let's see also in the design review overlay district says the same part let's see within the design review historic preservation overlay district regular maintenance maintenance exterior alteration and change of use are exempt application of sorry of any new construction proposed additions demolition or reconstruction of addition reconstruction of the existing buildings within the design review district and it doesn't mention signs at all so yeah and then there's so we're seeing it because you think it might be covered under something you cannot do administrative I'm trying to find here we go yeah so section 620 appears to be a stringent there was another one that I'm trying to find exactly where it is that specifically said that yeah so it's it's a little bit unclear if it needs to be under design review by the DRB all right did the board have any concerns or comments about the sign I mean are we are we determining whether our group we might as well prove it needs to review it and then I don't think we are I think we're just being it's being the way these things normally work is that if staff feels comfortable doing it administratively and they think it's within their power they do if they feel uncomfortable they can always bring anything to us yeah and so if they're even concerned that maybe they don't have the authority in the particular district to approve a sign they can easily ask us to take care of so we're taking care of so I'm not really worried about whether they think it's in our purview or not it's always in our purview unless they agreed that they have it in their administrative purview so since it's here let's do it because I was gonna say like I feel like with other projects coming down the line in the near future maybe we should make sure that we review because this is like you know not a big sign was there we're just but I just feel like there could be other instances where it would we would want to say yes or no to the sign so I feel like we should there I should say yes we want to be we want them to bring it forward to this group right right and so because of this discrepancy I just wanted to point out one of the comments here or something that Chris highlighted in the in the memorandum that he also requests clarification from the DRB whether sign permits within the design review or relay district are indeed exempt for design review or if they would be required by DRB review I think they should be required I'm not not sure I'm prepared to answer that was a full you know everything comes here and I sat through a meeting last week in another community where 18 sign permits came before my presentation and I thought well you know they take their signs seriously so sometimes they come in with the development sometimes they're required to be reviewed as a separate permit in cases where it's a separate permit usually they're very tight regulations on what the sign could be now big and the letters have to be so I forget how detailed our signage requirements are we haven't seen a sign permit application in quite some time so I'm happy to do this one it's much much much smaller and less assuming than the one that blew down it's in a way temporary although you could take the municipal building out and put something else on the sign in that the town is actively well yeah that was another question plans to relocate to the new property purchase so we know they won't be here forever but the sign might be here until the next windstorm do they take the sign with them I believe that the only thing is that if they are vacating the the building they have to say that like okay well this isn't municipal building anymore like that removed that part of the sign okay but then the structure will remain for any any purpose that takes that over then can put a sign there in that spot okay yeah I will say that previous discussions is sort of off the record too but previous discussions of what that sign should be included digital signage you know with a scrolling bill it well not scrolling as they did we now have a regulation on what those signs can be and you don't want to distract people so you don't want but but they could change you know and stay like that for a while and then you know dog licenses are due kind of thing so I feel what's been presented is is very low-key and very appropriate and very needed for the location the design looks somewhat classic a little less like the building than you know it could but since I had something to do with the building I'm not probably the right person to make the judgment I think the signs fine it's exactly what's expected I think the posts look a little thin and you know it probably might be a little longer lasting if they were beefier but that's really my only comment it's pretty straightforward no England sign anyone but I mean is it the case that that you want us to to decide whether our group I mean that's what it says recommended in motion yes so that is this group that is something we want clarification for in the future okay so if we get more sign permits within the sign view overlay district and I mean I agree with John I don't want to have it so we have like 20 signs that we have to review but the so the design review overlay district isn't that just the city center and like kind of kind of a little bit out my yes each of the five streets all of all of Pearl Street pretty much yeah and then each of you know a certain distance out from the city center everywhere else because that's not all I mean that's I just feel like there could be some signage coming down the pike that we would want to look at and have say and what it looks like so I don't I don't want to be I don't feel like this group should be exempt from I don't know that's my head that's like a personal I don't think we this goes to us I'm based on well I wouldn't call this regular maintenance although you could regular maintenance normally covers things that are being replaced in kind as in whatever came down is going back up just newer solid you know not failed material but exterior alterations I feel like regular maintenance and exterior alterations covers this well regular maintenance again if it's regular maintenance to me I don't know the difference between before and after except it's fixed exterior alterations seems like okay I change something so if we have purview over the design appearance of things in these districts I don't know how we those would be exempt I have to go read all of this all over again which I'm not prepared to do at the meeting oh Chris has joined us online hey Chris let's know if you have any comments about the about this issue yeah I was just watching this on YouTube and thought it would be helpful for me to jump in and clarify what we're what we're asking why why there's some lack of clarity here so according to our interpretation of the LDC the regulations in the village center zoning district says that sign permits are you know are exempt from design review if it's just a standalone change of signage they still have to they would still have to come to staff for administrative approval and meet you pretty tight criteria that's that's set within the the LDC it just those that specific wording didn't get transferred to the broader design review overlay district so to me it seems that the intention would be that there are stronger rules within the village center than for a for design review than the broader design review over overlay districts which covers you know all the major streets pretty much anywhere we would we would see a sign so that is why the recommendation I put on there was that you know that that we treat we treated the same we treat signs the same way in the broader design review overlay district as we do in the village center which which is that they would undergo administrative review only unless it is a part of a larger a full site plan I guess I'm still confused as to whether if the general reading of this says that signs don't matter signs aren't covered so if they're not covered why is it here unless I think they want us to confirm that that we agree with that interpretation right it just doesn't say it doesn't say for the design review overlay district whether or not it is it is exempt yeah but it clearly says that it is exempt in village center village center zoning districts looking for that clarification but if it's part of a larger project where we have full review then it then that's when it comes to us okay that makes sense to me all right well I'm all geared up to approve it but if you guys are saying I don't have to because it's straight up then we can delegate that authority back to or just make it clear that we believe that it's fine if if the sign permit application process stay administrative and that applies to the sign anyone have a different any comments from the public would you have an exceptionally qualified person sitting with us who might be able to help us out the big hint is the PRO district historic preservation overlay and that historic preservation pieces are within your purview so I could call for the same sign to come back as all you're telling unfortunately I would say or an upward move on mother nature disapproved we may as well just took her a while but she did well hey we'll let her have her way but it's it's only because it's in that overlay yeah other than that I would say that yeah we could be administrative you could just say we agree with administration have fun so I'll take a motion to agree with administration motion to agree with administration any further discussion all in favor aye aye any opposed motion carries thank you very much administrative purview is restored and off you go and we have one more item on our agenda it is discussion of construction progress at 94 Pearl Street the staff notes indicated that probably nobody currently on the DRB except for me might remember anything about this project and yet here is a very large building being built across from the fair arounds essentially it is a hotel I can tell you that when this came before the planning commission so that long ago we were shown we were reminded that we did not have design control or that parcel we only had site plan approval we were given renderings and likenesses of what might be here you know it was a hotel chain that had a rendering of similar you know we've done this 400 times and you know this this is what you're probably gonna get and now it's not that same hotel chain and that happens all the time you know like that somebody's interested and wants to be in a location and then they can't get a deal worked out so they go find somebody else so the point is we never had design control we never really saw what was gonna be built it's now under construction we still don't know what it's gonna look like I don't we aren't necessarily at the time it was approved we weren't given the purview to see what it was gonna look like but just one of the reasons why we had the LBC change because that seems unfair to the planning and progress efforts of the community not to know about these substantial buildings in the middle of high traffic areas so I would love to see what's going I saw the designs here this is now a handy suites the the architect listed in the drawings is the one that we've seen on the last couple of handy projects I don't I'm guessing this got approved administratively somehow or you know I wasn't even sure that that the first building which was alleged alleged at the time to be a restaurant that would have been a supporting feature of the hotel was approved that way and is now not a restaurant and in fact is my opinion it's built backwards you know that was I feel like anyway it's hard to come up with a reason or or the ability to say any of those things when you don't really have design control so the site plan is still the site plan the new building's going and you know where it was approved I'm sure the entries will be wherever they end up being because the you know I don't know how close to the original approved site plan the the actual site plan is but I guess that would be the one thing that we can say hey what what's happening so do we have a presentation beyond the drawings here only only the drawings that we have in front of us but I will pull those up and put them on soon now there's just the pages are at slightly different scales I might be zooming in and out zooming in and out on zoom so I was the derby person who added this to the agenda so I'm sorry no I've been meaning to go in and look pull the old documents and see what they were because I'm I'm just so curious and my I mean I know we can't do anything about it but it seems to me and I was talking to Chris about this is just the it's really about the access onto the the entry and exit points onto the street that seems like there's not between the Dollar Tree or the top what I don't know which one that is Dollar Tree and the building seems like and then that's the front of that of the in an extended stay hotel so it's not technically a hotel it's the extended stay suites which is very different not that we have control over the use but it just seems like right there the parking you come in and then that's the front of it where the lobby it's gonna be it seems like there's not coming onto Pearl Street with the you know the market and the other shopping center on the other side like it's almost like you're gonna need a light there's just there's already a traffic problem and so I'm I'm I go by there and I'm like how how is that gonna work your concern is congestion yeah like the whole just in and out and then the parking around the Dollar Tree and then you're gonna add a place where there's people coming in but just I don't I don't I mean I don't understand how at the market yeah but it's not it wouldn't cover not like a four-way stop no it's just like a little bit further down but it's enough that if you if you were gonna go make a left and then someone else coming in it's gonna make it seem I don't know we have that center median there right or the center turning is like center turn lane yeah and I'm trying to find because one of the other site plans specifies the traffic flow around okay I think it's dollar gentlemen I can't which it doesn't seem like it's wide enough right there like that entry yeah but I'm scrolling back and forth here for the site plans because there's one here that specifies so basically this driveway here would be entrance only and then this one would be exit only so technically to get to the lobby the correct traffic flow would be coming in here going around this building then coming back up here and then parking here to get to the lobby oh so you have to go in as if you're going to the dollar tree to get to the hotel is that leave so I'm gonna check to see it because I believe this part is only one-way traffic okay but I let me find it well that I mean that's oh no it's too it is two-way okay yeah so over here you can come so it's one way right here and then you can go either way this way so that's two-way but then this driveway is still exit only yeah so you can't enter as if you're going to exactly to the extended stay switch you have to enter as if you're gonna go to the dollar tree and across either around back or or in front yeah seems like there's a lot of yeah still I mean and it's they're gonna be signage to tell you to do it that way it wouldn't there have to be and there wouldn't have to be I think there are a little yeah there's definitely the arrows painted on but yeah I would new egg that only sign there's a little you can see the notes but the sign doesn't really show up and you know the the Pearl Street kind of yeah it's not as wide there as it is in other places so it's it kind of narrows there and so for like biking I mean there's just a lot going on in that little section where it and it just yeah it's unfortunate and I was like looking for something and we can do to improve the situation I don't know what that is but I'm gonna invite Diane to okay purchase the pay here as well as a way I will say that I asked Chris once because I go up and down this street all the time I live just a quarter a mile from here even closer well well you know what I mean so I mean the other day I saw a really good smash up but they're hauling at the car off so it's not a good situation with no signage or limited signage okay because the road signage is poor because it's been roughed up and it's almost gone there's no signs to say in and out okay those have kind of like disappears so we do have a note here for entry only sign and exit only yes if they only exist it would be good yeah and you know sort of things I've been watching that and then it's kind of going yes the the zone that this is in says that the front door is going to be on street side of then I think the planning commission made an allowance because of the orientation of the building but still required them to have windows and the appearance that it was a street side entrance as opposed to inside a building because the restaurant was also supposed to have access between the two buildings because that was going to be the restaurant for the hotel sort of a thing and yes the signage was the signage was supposed to happen well I guess the operative word he was supposed and so I mean as it is the the good stuff store doesn't have a full-fledged rain garden even though it was supposed to have one this one so it's that full-fledged rain garden that's the design of it has shows it a lot better than what's going on and yes the traffic pattern was supposed to be one way until you got in between the two buildings because then you could go in back and forth as it is now the Dollar Tree people do indeed seem to go in and park correctly as you just see the diagonal parking but be having all the construction vehicles they're building the building it's there's other than leading that way there's living traffic that goes in that direction there's no reason to do that and who's in charge of putting up the signage is that the city or is that the oh they would be putting up the developer the builders and they have to put the sign yeah putting up the sign it's usually one of the last things that goes through ink but usually a sign requires like a separate sign permit unless it was part of the original building permit I have to go back and check but I think offhand that it was going to be a separate sign I think it would be a sign fine the zoning board would still be approving when it was first approved the zoning board was still responsible for approving signs and even so having a separate sign permit is relatively new as I put it together one of my one of my earlier tasks of working here because up until a few months ago it was just the regular zoning permit form would also work for for signs so we've since separated those out into three separate forms so before we give a certificate of occupancy we we can make sure that the signs that we like are in place and then is there anything we can do since there was there was supposed to be a restaurant there that was connected to the building to the hotel and that's not the case but there is this really dark not looking so great alleyway I mean now I know it's still under construction but is there anything we can enforce as far as making that an actual pleasant walkway that has lights and now that it's not going to be connection connection point for a building that goes with the other building like is there anything in our code hot one I don't with lights or anything yes if there's a lighting permit or lighting documentation and unless unless it's been submitted it it doesn't exist and there you go lighting permit well it's the lighting is supposed to be as as submitted and those you know would have to be there so yeah I have another point which is this whole thing was permitted as one thing so until the whole thing is up to snuff I would say somebody's CEO can be held well I will say for the area that was proposed as a restaurant that is now good stuff that building specifically the change of use can be approved administratively as long as the new use does not require as long as the new use requires less prior less parking as long as it's lower intensity than the original approved use I'm just thinking about the rain garden and all the rest of the amenities and signage and lighting all the things that are supposed to be on the site plan whether they were you know I would say that a full review of this whole site plan should be done before anymore CEOs happen so they've got a while to work on that but I think any interim visits by the city staff should include some and bring the whole plan with you and make sure the whole thing is done before it's done right so that will be part of our walkthrough whenever we go ahead and look around for the the CEO inspection I believe they'll also have to send us as-built plans to show like if there's anything that changed during construction to update it and return that to us we'll be able to get a better comparison to you know what was approved and what was actually built when we have the as-belts when construction is finished but yeah we'll do the normal inspection before certificate of occupancy can be issued and one other thing I don't see in the packet is the actual staff notes and planning commission approval with conditions that you know might be what we might have captured some of this like Diane remembers apparently more than I do about what we were doing with the front end of the building but you know it's it's not as much of a walk straight and off the street type of front end which you know this this whole district has had some difficulty kind of getting up off the ground in terms of what do we really want there how do you comply with any of these things this is a multi essentially a multi-building development that is supposed to work together but it's all somewhat disjointed in terms of what the parts and pieces are yes and then the planning commission is currently discussing this I believe the city council is also going to be discussing and doing transit-oriented survey piece because this these pearl street it's it has been difficult to get contractors and such to understand the concept of this area and so obviously we're not we're not communicating well and or otherwise they say no wait I don't want to do that but the idea was to have I always had a hard grasp with pedestrian given that this was very much a transit highway it was originally four lanes and it's moved down to where it is now um so it's it's how do you get the I guess in this case how do you get the pedestrians to walk all the way down there um and and start using pedestrians also read bicycles because they'll also come afterwards but it's supposed to have to write the ordinance and say this is what you have to do if you want to develop in this area you have to make sure that it's pedestrian friendly and bike friendly or you can't pretty much does that how do we enforce that it's a lot denser and there could be a lot more of these and it's not safe to walk there's no pedestrian friendliness we on any of them right now not right now with all the curb cuts and such you know it's not or bike friendly at all but um I think with correct signage um on the property plus on pearl street itself um the awful part ends up always being enforcement well yeah I mean as to and and compliance by by individuals so you're right this is a heavy duty transition zone right there and there's a lot of business happening across the street from this right now with the new grocery store and the revised gas station we we can also say that almost all the all the rest of the fast food places and other things that are further west down the street are existing non-conforming uses they all have two driveways you know they're basically one-way loops but um none of those would be permitted now on this this this land so they're they're there that's fine but they don't match the desired new pattern of how things are supposed to happen there so it's it's a tough place to to get you know to come to grips with because you have what it's the way it works now and the way we want it to work and we still haven't matched any of that it's it's been how long has the TOD been on the books there 15 years oh maybe more it preceded me it was already existing so and I think we've had this is the first thing that's really been developed on there that that I mean none of those some of the fast food um and restaurants have been rebuilt a few times but yes but nothing has been um you know really come in and been proposed as newly complying with the district requirements but I think you've actually I think you as the bore here has actually seen one on Pearl Street that came for and I feel not sure if it got conceptual or not but which is farther down the street rather west but in this in this case this one kind of fell through the cracks between the planning commission permitting conceptually to having it come through again and in fact I was looking at the plans that we have here and as far as I know the front of those buildings that are on this side of the street would be facing north and I believe it says southeast and there's no way I'm sorry but that's the other side of the street so it's labeled incorrectly on the pieces I know that the planning commission even though we didn't have review would ask for um either color scheme or a texture scheme which is why the current proposal now is to um ask for that design design review because well when you look at the literature that was proposed before the building form and the you know look at the use was the same but the but the building itself was way more interesting had a lot more roof activity it was more similar to the Highland Village across you know at the other end of the um part of the plaza um than than what we're seeing here so it's a big step down yes it's definitely turned down um it's hard to say when it changed because we weren't really supposed to see all that stuff anyway but when that gets shown to you and you say well we don't have purview but hey that that we can work with that and then you know you get this it's uh kind of it's disturbingly the the the two tone gray brown color of the good stuff building kind of set the community office to not appreciating that building whatsoever um and so if if anything i would say that the comments that i've heard they essentially say no that one's gonna be unique on pearl street um that and the fact that it has all those neon signs in the windows um which i think is against regulations because there's probably too much neon in that building um but you know well what i know about signs since we're talking about them down the play commission so this my concern is that this becomes a successful business that is serving the hotel needs that this community needs and that it's pleasant to the eye when you go past it um but it's it's as i i mean i know it's mud season right now but you know it's been a while since good stuff went in and it still doesn't have the rain garden in um i'm kind of hoping that when these coordinate maybe they'll it'll happen but well there's a i i i referred to it as the drainage swell well it is more than a rain guard all right well uh i what i mean we don't have any action we can take though right i mean there's no uh i'm just reviewing it at this point um we need to hire enforcement officers i will point out one one other issue kind of related to the drainage well maybe could explain why the rain garden there might not be finished uh there's a portion of this sidewalk here that i believe still like uh at a lower elevation it's from a previous like driveway entrance uh on the site um that hasn't been updated or changed that is something that will have to be fixed uh before it goes to make sure that is a continuous sidewalk you know has the correct slope in the right places things like that um so i'm guessing that they'll probably take care of the drainage at the same time that they're fixing the sidewalk so let's hope so and the shrubbery the larger shrubs that are shown out by the sidewalk are those yeah is the anyone recall seeing those this is the landscaping plan so let me scroll down i don't think those are there yet not yet landscaping usually goes in later but here they're specifying the different kinds so it looks like there hasn't been any landscaping done on on the buildings that are currently actively in use there were some grasses tall grasses and i wanted to believe they were intentionally uh you know put in there but um i i don't i don't know they were not successful so if this was one spot or one supposed to be one project three buildings how come we gave theos the other two well one was existing so the dollar store was uh was already there oh it was okay um was that the car dealer yeah it was a car dealer okay okay um so so that was there was never an intent they were going to repurpose it but not it was not newly constructed but then why did we allow for the you know on the other one when it was supposed to go with always must be paired i'm not sure i can't i this is i have all the same questions and i have to track back through the paperwork to get an answer to that one specifically yeah all that i know is that the change of use was allowed to be done administratively um i don't know if or why if the co was actually is crystal here no he just he stepped up um um yeah so i i believe the co has been uh issued on that one if it's if it's up an operational uh yeah i'd have to track back through people well hopefully it's conditional or something because because i would say that even the components of the landscaping and so forth that belong to that building proper are are not there so yeah um can we ask for a report on what options i mean limited though they may be the drb has to we asked for a schedule do we you know can we get their intended completion date and when the landscaping happens and when they believe they're going to be um you know requesting the the c of o uh i'm not sure um i know that constructions you know progressing along but i haven't been inside i haven't been anywhere near uh just you know walking by exterior no idea i have no idea when they'll be requesting co but uh i just know that we'll we'll have to do the inspection before yeah issuing but can our committee request a timeline are we allowed to do that i think we just did we're we're requesting staff we are requesting staff go see what they can find out we don't probably have to talk to them directly anymore thank you harlan thank you um okay thank you any uh anything else on your minds tonight before we adjourn all right i'll take a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn back in all in favor hi hi thank you have you