 Oh f**k! Oh my god! So why not? Let's do face, what's it, challenge 22? Challenge 22! Let's f**king do it, man! Legend, brother! What? You are not having any animal. Uh, that's not what veganism is. So, veganism is to avoid the exploitation and cruelty to animals as far as practically possible. So, it's practical and possible for me to eat tofu over a slaughtered pig. Oh, oh, oh. Yeah. Ice, ice, you mean? Yeah, yeah. You're trying to point out some type of hypocrisy with me. You want me to be a hypocrite like I'm wearing an animal? No, no, because I never seen any vegan. Yeah, yeah. I've met quite a few vegan. Really? I'm a born Zen Buddhist. Zen Buddhist? I born in the Zen temple. Oh, really? So, if we say something, that is what we meant. But vegan is kind of the fashion. No. People suddenly start, okay, I join vegan when the person is 20 years old. Are you speaking on behalf of all vegans? No, no. Okay. I'm, as I said, I'm Buddhist. What are the principles of Buddhism when it comes to causing harm to animals? Buddha had anything. And he died with food poisoning. For me. Eating bad fish. You know, originally the Buddhist was a beggar. So they said, bick. Bick in Hindi is beggar. But he wouldn't deliberately harm an animal if he had a choice. Would you agree? He ate the food offered by the people. Okay, so when you buy animal food, do you eat animals? Me? Yeah, when you do you eat animals? Yeah, I eat anything. So when you buy animal food, you pay someone to kill the animal for you? That is an economic system. Yeah, supply and demand. Yeah. So I'm saying that if you have the choice to buy plant food here, then you are against cruelty to animals. It's an obligation to do so. Those animals were created by the gods for us to eat. Do you believe that? Of course, I would, as I said, a Buddhist. Did Buddha believe that animals were put here for us to kill and eat? Nature exists as it is. We are only the small, small, minute part of nature. Why do we choose to be cruel when we have a choice not to be cruel? Cruel or not. It's very difficult to see. Stabbing an animal in the neck to eat them. Come look. Let me show you. You want to have a look? I'll show you how they kill the animals here. This is a gas chamber, can you see? So this is stabbing in the throat. This is what I'm saying. Do you believe animals can suffer? It's very difficult to say. What do you think about this? Cutting an animal's head off. Do you think that that's cruel? Keeping that animal in the cage and make them grown up to be killed. I don't know which one is cruel. I completely agree. Pace to you. This is a dairy cow. When they don't produce any milk, they kill them. I'm saying that if we can choose a vegan option made of plants then we avoid this. We human beings have been eating animal, hunting, started as a hunter-gatherer. For a long time, yeah? Yeah, and so... Is that okay? Do you think that still makes it okay? It's in the thought of the rotation. Rotor order. Stronger eat weaker. Do you think if you're stronger than it means we can do whatever we want to those who are weaker? As a human being, we may not be stronger than like a mammoth, yeah? But we use a brain. I'm stronger than women. I'm stronger than a lot of women. Does that mean I should do what I want? Stronger versus weaker, yeah? Are you eating women? No, but I'm stronger than a lot of women. Some women know stronger than me. But you're saying if you're stronger, do you eat the weaker? But we know stronger than children as well. When the situation, we have to eat something, yeah? Yeah, we've got choice. And we may not eat... We have a choice here. Between meat and between plants. And the choice is also very, very tricky earlier. Okay, well, what about you? What about you? Do you think if you have a choice to be compassionate to animals? Oh... You should make the compassionate choice? I got very, very strange phenomenon. If there is a stray cat, it's coming and asking me... Scratching my back. And I rolled, I think, all together 18 cats. I couldn't take the cat, which I got first time, to the bed to sterilize. And I didn't know the cat became pregnant within three months. And after three months, it became pregnant. And six kittens. And two of them were still born. So I put those still born kittens into warm water. I revived. So I put the name of those two kittens from the Buddhist scripture. And so I was forced to do the cat. Would you eat the cats? Would you kill and eat the cats? I don't think. Why not? The cat is not for me to eat. Why? They just happen to live with me. Do you know what I'm saying? Why I'm saying that? There's a point to why I'm saying that. Because if you won't kill and eat the cat, why kill and eat the pig? But I didn't prevent the cat, my cat, to catch the mice and eat. Yeah, that's the cat's moral. Not yours. I'm talking about you, not the cat. The cat and you are different. But you wouldn't kill and eat a cat, but you would kill and eat a pig. Why? They still want to live the same? I, as I said, I skinned rabbit and made a stew in the mountain shelter. Yeah, and why the... Would you still skin and kill a rabbit if you had a vegan burger there to feed you? If you didn't have to do that, if I gave you vegan burger, would you still kill and skin a rabbit to eat if I gave you vegan food? I think in London, I don't need to struggle to catch the rabbit and eat. And so, same as, okay, we Japanese eat. Whale. You know, that's a big, big fish. Do you think it's cruel to kill whales and eat them? If you say to killing a cow or a pig, yeah, it's allowable because God given us and so on, so on. Those logic or excuse, yeah. If you allow that excuse, so why not whale? Yeah, well, I don't think we should kill whales or pigs or cows or cats. Me surviving here, as my lifestyle, yeah. According to the, what Buddhists say, dharma. Dharma is a law of the universe. Yeah. And so, the vegetable which we regard to be edible vegetable, we harvest it, but we are killing those plants. Of course. Yeah. So, do you think if we have a choice between killing a vegetable or killing an animal, what one is more ethical to do? I don't think it's not the matter of more or less. Do you think a pig is the same as a carrot in the way that they suffer the same? That, as I said, yeah. Does a child and a carrot suffer the same? Have you ever talked to a carrot? You know. Would you rather kill a carrot or a human child? So you don't know how carrot or vegetable or the suffered? I know they don't suffer. I know that. Why can you say? They don't have a brain or a central nervous system or pain receptors, and they don't avoid pain. A child or a pig, they do. How do you know? Because they don't have a brain. Suffering comes from the brain. It tells you to escape. That doesn't necessarily look like a brain. Does a carrot have a brain? Maybe. No, they don't. We know. I can cut a carrot open and show you. In the forest, if one tree was infested by those insects and started to seclude certain chemicals to warning another plant, and so the plant started to produce poisonous chemicals. They react to the environment. Do you think that they are suffering, though? They don't like to be eaten or infested by the insect. Do you think that a plant has its own desires and wants and feelings? Or are they just reacting to things that are happening like an automatic response? Don't ask the plant got exactly the same intelligence to the human being. We human beings, it's rather, rather exception, even among the animal. If I gave you a choice to kill a tree or to kill a human being, which one would you choose? If I gave you a choice of a tree or a human, which one would you choose and why? In fact, as I said, when I was young, I was a member of the Alpine Club and also a voluntary keeper of the mountain shelter. And to keep the shelter warmer in the wintertime and the cooking, we have to cut the tree. But if I gave you a choice between killing a tree and killing a human being, which one would you kill? You have a choice between a human and a tree. If that so-called human being... Just a normal human, innocent human. So what is the reason of me to kill the person? I'm asking, it's a hypothetical question and you're saying trees fill and I want to know if they feel the same as a human. I think that is a completely useless hypothesis. I'm trying to understand if you think a carrot and a human feel the same way. I've been talking exactly the same since I sit here. I'm following the Dharma and the following environment. And so I don't guess any environment asked me to kill innocent human. We kill innocent animals to eat them. We do that. But we could kill carrots. Do you think there's a difference between stabbing a pig in the throat like I showed you and cutting a carrot up for soup? More or less the same. The same. You know, a lot of people thinking or believing they are innocent or allowed to do boiling, killing the alive carrot or being. You know, those being, if you... Being, like a plant being. Not a human being, a being. No, no, no, no. Being, like a soya being. Okay. Yeah. Do you think they feel pain? Soya beings feel pain? Pain. I'm not sure. That's pain. Like I never talked to a being. But... Benefit, do you think... Obviously, we killed a being. Yeah. Boiled alive. Yeah. And I'm asking you if there's a difference between boiling a being alive and boiling a dog alive. In the suffering. I'm not Korean, so I never eat dog. Well, you don't have to be Korean to make a statement about whether or not a dog suffers more than a being. You don't have to be Korean. You just have to have your own opinion. Do you think a dog suffers more than a being? The suffer or not suffer. As I said, it's very difficult to draw the line. Okay. Okay. But think about... We terminate one life. Soya beings' life. Yeah. Or carrot life. Yeah. Or cat. Or human. Or human. Okay. Do you think we're all the same? Me? A dog? A pig? A being? A carrot? A lettuce? We are all the same. So it doesn't matter who you kill. If you think killing a carrot and killing the human is the same, then you wouldn't agree with the laws that we have protecting humans from murder. You would think that they don't need it because it's the same to kill a carrot as it is to kill a human. Yeah, I think so. Okay. Well, I don't agree with you. Yeah, but as I said, the Buddha ate anything. So it means Buddha might have eaten. In fact, the another story of the Buddha, Buddha also ate pork. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard. I don't know if Buddha had a choice between what we've seen here in the slaughterhouse and a strawberry field. If the man was compassionate and he's seen all these animals suffering and he's seen the strawberry field, I think maybe he would choose the strawberry field. You know, your choice of the word compassion or compassionate, yeah, may need to give a more wise choice or thought. Yeah. Okay. But we may not necessarily giving good judgment through our emotion. Yeah. So our emotion, what about logic over, what about intelligence and logic over emotion? That what we human being was given as sort of a superiority to another animal. Not all humans are smart though. No. Yeah. Some idiot is really idiot. Yeah. But it's still human being. Do you think that because someone isn't smart we should take their right to life away? I don't think so. Okay. So if a chicken isn't smart, does that give us the right to take their right of life away because they're not as smart? That is, it seems you are stance because you are superior, you are smarter. So, you can kill? I don't want to kill. I want to leave them be. No, you are killing being. Being or killing. Yeah. I think it's okay to kill plants. They don't suffer. They don't have a brain. They don't want to live. Doesn't necessarily to have a kind of the brain what we are learning through anatomy. But, okay, for instance, octopus said to have eight brain in each leg or tentacles. Yeah. And so on, so on, so on. Amazing creatures. So, we may not necessarily knowing everything in this world. Even, I know what you're saying. We don't know if the carrot is suffering. So, do you know if this table is suffering? This... Is this table suffering? To make this aluminium. Yeah. Now this table here, as it is right now, is it suffering? Okay. All the things. All the materials have some cost. Related. And those relation is what we say Dharma. The system. And none of the system is innocent. No. Everything has a cost. Always having sacrificed something. Yeah. So, you said cost. Yeah. Everything has a cost. Like... And so... Just us existing we cause some type of... So, just because of the superficially or apparently this is less cost and less cruel and started to say I'm right and so on, so on. We Buddhists, it's not insisting like that logic. For me, I think it's different to stab animals like these things here we have clothes on, we have this material here. They have a cost. On top of that cost, stab three animals a day to eat as well. I don't think it's justified. I think it's justified for me to have a table to do this work with. As I said, you're using just a motion. Justification. Yeah. You are justification. It's just a very poor logic. I don't think it's justified for me to go and stab him and eat him. You know, I'd rather eat carrot, plants, beans. I want to know what you think. I want to know what you think. Do you think it's okay to do what we want to each other because everything has a cost? As you are born to be one of the human being in the Indian-Australia. And so, you've grown up while eating that food, that food. I hate a lot of animals. Yeah. And so, you couldn't avoid or you couldn't choose to be pure, right, how to say, justifiable distance. There's ways that I can live that cause less harm to animals than humans though. So, I don't go out and assault people. I try to not eat animals. I try to do my best that I can do. Yeah, that is maybe making you feel happy. So, as long as you feel happy, you live. And one day, one of the vegan I met with strong opinionated vegan, password, other people, blah, blah, blah, when that vegan was invited to join the party, sushi party, see it, anything. So, as long as it's free. That's not me though. I don't eat fish because I believe they deserve to live. Thanks for the discussion. I appreciate you sitting down and talking to me. Yeah, very interesting. So, I don't feel that it's justified to do this to animals even though everything has a cost and you think that we're all the same. As a, almost last word, as I said, that you feel satisfaction. I hope the animals I don't eat feel satisfied as well. What is the best way to treat a nature? It's very, very tricky issue. And nobody knows what is the best or justifiable way to treat. Maybe treat a pig and a cow the same way you treat those cats that you saved. Just simple, keep it simple, you know. Tofu next time. I just bought 10 kilogram of rice. Ah, good. Good. And the rice was I don't know, luckily enough. It's already skinned. Skinned alive? Yeah. So, enjoy. I didn't need to feel guilty to cook the rice. I don't think rice feels pain. I'm not sure. I am. That's what you believe. Okay. So, you live on your satisfaction, on your comfort. Okay. So, that doesn't necessarily justify you to, for you to have your opinion. You might be something infringing. Somebody's right or somebody's happy. Okay. Be humble and be kind to animals. Okay, cheers.