 and welcome everyone thanks for coming out on this rainy evening and just so we have a sense in terms of names we all identify ourselves starting with John Julio in the back of the of the room John just Caitlin Morgan kindergarten teacher Maggie Michael and speech and language pathologist Deanna Murray pre-k teacher Joanne Mancoff community member and Tammy Welley Lexie Murray parent Stanley parent so first up we have any agenda revisions is there any proposal to move items on the agenda if folks don't want to stay for the entire meeting we can just address certain things from the playground okay any others that we can possibly move does there have an objection to moving the playground to the forefront in terms of discussion 3.3 3.1 3.3 up and 3.5 up as well any objections any public comments or correspondence well I was gonna say since she's dealing with topics I was gonna propose that we address the sections of the letter that addressed the topics and looking at the letters a whole into the record. Chip Heller also dropped a letter maybe 2.3 off because he thought this was the last run the board meeting which they actually I don't know if it will be no it's not the last meeting in the building maybe in the building but maybe not but he chopped up the letter that we didn't have the record I can read it now if folks would like so so it's to the room the school board over the years working from the school has been a privilege and challenge that demand the true personal and professional growth the key key contributed to both of these kinds of growth has been the working relationships with the room the school board that organization like staff like students and their families has not been a static body individuals have come and gone but as an institution the board has come to have a unique character that only might be possible with it with a school like from the community like middle-sex even though I am not a middle-sex resident and even though there has been times of great turmoil in the life of the school in the town I do not regret in the least having the opportunity to participate in the collective enterprise but I am profoundly moved by the impact of the changes in governance that are now being enacted because they mean that this continually evolving body that has been so integral to the lives of everyone connected to the school will no longer exist as a self-sufficient organ of the school community to me then there is a gravity to this change that deserves earnest reflection looking both forward and back in time I can't be president tonight's meeting but I didn't want to let folks know that quite apart from the business you will be conducting the room the school board as a collaborative body will be my thoughts so I'm going to make this be part of the record any other comments and correspondence it makes a good point that we are potentially coming to the end of an era in regard to local school board local school boards in the Washington Central Supervisor Union as of July 1st unless something happens this board will dissolve be dissolved by law actually December 3rd will still be in existence for auditing purposes but in terms of a decision-making body we will no longer be a viable organization which has a sadness about it but so we should talk later about celebrating that later in the later in the month as we are closer to the 30th of June so is there a motion for the consent to approve the minutes of our May 6th 2019 May 24th 2019 May 29th 2019 meetings is there a second any any comments on the May 6th 2019 minutes any comment on the May 24th 2019 minutes any comment on the May 29th 2019 minutes I'm all favor approving the minutes so we will take up the playground renovations first and incident that we do not have much no because I need a direction from the board okay I can't go to work with John without knowing where you want to go support any board to make a decision on what type of renovations as we outlined in the last meeting okay so the choices that we have is either to develop a new preschool playground off the back of the school off the back of school or do a renovation of the main playground yep you know need a ramp up to up to that a playground and you need it now for ADA purposes okay we need we need the ramp regardless yeah you do and my recommendation last time although it was more money but it was I think better money in the long run is to build a ramp and build a playground up there that's ADA accessible and we went up and did a safe view do we have any firmware numbers on what I need a decision by the board Chris I don't have any firmware numbers I need a decision by the board before we go and get better numbers and start contracting with people to do that design last last meeting that we talked about this that we are gonna allow John come back with what some viable options that's what I am do something and then just give us some of these loose a little I know we got some rough estimate right about a hundred thousand dollars we start and most we start caught sign a contract with them as an architect start doing design and I wasn't comfortable with that to you as a board say what are the parameters of what we're calling because there was also talk of moving the entire playground or and you know where you're going in a different way I think we were looking for these from my perspective we're looking for guidance on what the different options were with the costs might be for relocating it versus and they said he won't give us a he does his liability insurance will not allow him to design he doesn't do that right so he's not good he can design a ramp and the ramp is you know he said he was comfortable doing without doing the contract is the numbers I gave you last time I think to be direct I thought that our question was should the playground be in what we would call the wetfield like should we move the playground to the wetfield or build a much longer ramp to talk to the current playground with the question being is it actually like more accessible because there's less of a ramp to gain access to the the wetfield than to build a much longer ramp to access where the current playground was that's sort of where I thought then there was a third option of which I thought that we were not as interested in which was having just a pre-paid playground off of the third and fourth grade classrooms so that's why is that worse is that what we're that's what I thought we were discussing was yeah and I had asked to maybe get I had asked if we had someone to come in to us what we were just talking about assess kind of the difference between an accessible and inclusive playground just looking at the minutes but maybe John coming in to help us like Brian said kind of established where the best place would be to start to have I should so when I think about this I guess the sum total is we are obligated to be ADA compliant and I see no situation where we are not going to in some way want to take advantage of the space that we have on that hill so I don't really see any way that we get around building ramps let's say that we you know move the playground well that space is going to be appropriated for something else and then it wouldn't be ADA compliant in that regard you can't have a soccer game there but we can't get to the soccer game or whatever so I see no way around that ramp so I guess from my perspective the simplest and the straightforward thing to do is to get a ramp to that area now just bear the cost of it and be done with it and I mean I guess I would be a favorite keeping the playgrounds where they are because I like that it's a little secluded behind the school and it feels a little somehow more protected but but I guess that's the first part of it do we want to ramp or do we not want to ramp do and to me I feel like we should just get it done with and you had mentioned the lift too looking into the but I guess we can't really look into any of the like how let me rephrase instead of ramp create access to that playground I agree and yes and I don't think we can really evaluate what's the best kind of ramp what's the best kind of lift what's the best kind of whatever until we've decided to release that's my understanding what they'll say yeah I'm trying I need to know where you're architects like to have you know they'd like to have a contract before you start working it on right and to be clear John is already you know met with our special ed director our pre-k teacher myself and our studio staff to do a preliminary scan of the available spaces and it's really up to you what he was not he was not going to weigh in really on which one was best and was it three different spaces the ones that we toured which is out the back the soccer right I mean each area has issues you know I mean just keeping it plowed and shoveled and all that with that long span is a challenge in addition you know us paving at the back you know we met with even you know someone that does that type of work and he said you know he wouldn't guarantee it more than a year so you know the painting because of the heavy equipment that goes over it back where the deliveries we get fueled service we get from the town all down that service road and in the back for a turnaround so I feel like we have scanned we just need a decision so if the backfield soccer area not recreation but back the wet field I guess yeah if that was ever to use for activities that would have to be ramp access as well yeah I mean yet yes because I think I think I know I haven't surveyed it so I do not know the elevation game from the back door or from this door to that play to that place that's why we need to so we need an engineer an architect because there are it's a one-and-twelve slope as I said that you have to have to be accessible with brakes every 30 feet for five foot of level and the surface material is what we have been checking yeah we're trying right now it's you know yeah can we go with something like a stay mat versus an asphalt but either way to ensure the asphalt stays for longer it gets into heavier costs because of the drainage and we all live for my we all know what Ross does around here so you know that those are the things and that's why we need I can't give you anything more than the back of the level of cost because we need it the design has to be done and we need to sign a contract for with an architect architect to do that the architect game black or that's what I would suggest what you just say that they don't specialize in play they would do the playground piece we have to go specifically to a playground company like Amy did with the company that's that put in the playground last year that you have to go straight to playground companies to do they would design the ramp right no no they design the playground no but black or black or design would do the ramp and any any site work that has to be done around okay so is the ramp would be phase one so the way that I see it we have to decide whether or not we want to consider alternate locations or whether or not we want to keep it there we have limited information so we don't have dollar amounts on what everything we cost do we feel like we can like what do you think I'd like to know what I'd sort of like to have some guidance from the experts on what's gonna make the most sense for accessibility for kids and you know if so I feel I feel a little uncomfortable being put in position of making a recommendation when I don't really feel like I'm not asking to make a recommendation I'm asking to commit to a location but there's there's only one location that it can be unless you move the playground and everything and it's and not doing in phases because you know kids grow up and it's and the playground also has it already has an accessibility issue so I think at the very least we have to make that so unless we move the playground and that just doesn't sound like that's a feasible option I asked John about a lift potential and as I recall Deanna you were there I don't think that you know yeah he didn't seem to have that knowledge for that but Brian I think we're on the same page of thinking like we are still wondering which is the right site in terms of like what is because when I think about it it's a it's more long-term problem problem in terms of like there is it will cost more to go up to the upper access but there's a lot of larger maintenance costs and the question of what is the time frame of actually accessing that playground and how much does that cut into yeah that's one way the other way is that you don't have ADA accessing now to your and and so not all individuals can use it but if we moved the entire playground to where it's lower and you have a shorter ramp and then it then the whole playground is also accessible and the ramp is less which means it takes children less time to get to the playground and then the long-term maintenance of plowing the ramp is lower cost because you don't have such a number of yards that you're that you're following so are you thinking that we would then give up use of that space that space would become non-accessible to anybody I have a plan for that place but it could I mean if you move to the whole playground down that seems like it isn't is an option and I think what Brian was wondering is a recommendation from somebody who has had some insight to say yeah that's a better long-term vision or no the better plan is to just build the long ramp we want some input right because we have even the ramp was switchback versus that's where you're going to design the the estimate of we can estimate about the cost between 30 and $40,000 you're not any if that's where you're gonna if that's where you want to go and then you want to say well what is the design look is a switchback is a straight you're gonna and you can work with an architect to get a couple different versions of the design it's like when you did the building project here you started talking about what were some of the things that you wanted to have before you even got into the building project then you and you signed a contract you went with two different architecture firm but they then get some concepts of what you want for a design and make some decisions on that but you were already in the place of saying we know we're gonna go and we're willing for money down for an architect to do a conceptual design and a whole building renovation architects are willing to take more lead not knowing they know there's a bond boat coming this isn't a bond boat type of piece it's you know this is work within a capital fund so when they see you know project it's multi-million dollar product they're willing to be a little bit more upfront with their services because they see they get they're gonna get paid they're gonna get 10% of the project cost so where that's that 10% it's not not gonna cover the design for $4,000 on a $40,000 ramp is not gonna cover so would John be able to provide guidance on what the best location would be or is that the playground design folks that would be able to provide that in some even though I know he doesn't design but in terms of I'm sure he knows information about accessibility would he be able to provide that insight in terms of best location for a playground even though he's not designing so I don't know how to answer that Chris because I haven't asked him that question I'm here thinking I don't understand why we aren't through by the board doesn't feel comfortable making decision that's why I'm proceeding where you are right now and I don't understand that because it's not I'm not saying that in a I'm just trying to say I'm being really transparent with you if you want to put the playground on the pre-kate playground down here you're gonna have to in two years either move in less than two years because you don't have accessibility at the top so here you're moving the structures that are up there down don't have to recreate a playground playground anyone's you've got you've got some pieces that we think you should upgrade right now you don't have accessibility and at best for the pieces that you have there you have a couple pieces that need some probably renovation to make it more accessible they aren't very quality they're very old pieces so I frankly think and Amy's been lobbying you hard to think about hey let's get some more appropriate play pieces that's anywhere that you're at the places where do you want your playground to be an overall playground okay sis and that right and that becomes the cost question as to whether it is better to have it you know the complete the entire playground's not gonna be off the back of the building I think it's suspect it has to either be in the small soccer field or where it is now and right and you're gonna say you're probably kind of incur I mean you're gonna have to move structures that are up there yeah most likely they're in concrete somewhere in the base so you've got to then move those down reset them in new concrete you know you're gonna do that or you're gonna you're probably in the end probably gonna have the same cost either way because you got to move everything that's up there down and then reset the drainage plus the drainage that's a small soccer just replenishing the mulch or whatever the ground cover is you're gonna have to think about that but in terms of a student access and I think Kate was gay made the good point of saying depending upon where the access points are the student could be going up all the way to the playground get there just in time to turn around again and come back because recesses over and so you know that sounds like that's the other way around versus the small soccer so I mean that's back I don't think we've really explored much and so my question about John is if we said you know going contract with him for a grant design but is he able to say based on his experience in designing schools and I'm assuming he knows about ADA access very well so whether or not which would be the more accessible of the two locations that we I think we're really doing with which is small soccer field or whether the playground is now because unless I mean I'd be glad to hear from others saying that you think we could be off the back end I don't know if we can be off the back end for the entire playground is that is that a feasible design to be off the back end so is it I don't think we have the land right okay so it's really the small soccer field or where we are now and in terms of a yeah right so would John be able to you know if we said hire him would he be able to get some guidance for vote on the 17th as to which location it should be I don't know the answer to that Chris I'm not trying to stall I just don't know the answer to that it sounds though that there is some recommendation towards going with what we have now and just building around that's that's my recommendation is that because you think because of the cost you think it's going to be I think you're gonna I think you have a hard time providing accessibility to everything that you have here and I find it hard to believe that even if you move that playground down that that upper area wouldn't be used that's not providing accessibility I mean never really have to as Allison mentioned at some point we would have to make it accessible I don't disagree with that person I I have one suggestion about people that might be able to assist in deciding where I know the pre-k licensing the state licensing may be able to give a little just not not probably as well as John from Black River but may be able to give some kind of input on on what might be a better spot for for pre-k children of all needs and then also there's something that John suggested suggested when we were surveying that we did put the playground in the small soccer field an access ramp to get to the larger playground could go up that little hill by the four square area which would save you know from looping through all the first trees so he said if we had access from the back door to the small soccer field for the pre-k playground and just continue the ramp all the way up it would be a smaller slope as well I just wanted to note that as well if you don't plus the ramp can I read Kelly's because we forgot to read her so every Kelly's station shows that's on the playground yeah yeah it was number two on hers so Kelly it's in an email a couple of the discussion Kelly Bush here special ed director playground accessibility I'm happy to see this as an action agenda for this evening I urge you to take action to move this work forward so that all children middle-sex community may access the playground as you are aware the conversation about the need to create accessibility the playground has been going on for months now with no action taken every day that passes delays this opportunity for all children in the middle-sex community to have equal access and learning opportunities I feel the need is within my role to advocate for this work to begin as soon as possible I advocated for this during the April board meeting and I continue to urge you to move this project forward projects of this nature take significant amount of time and planning pre-k playground has been out of compliance for many years and it's time that's upgraded and accessible for all children so and I would just say I don't think that any I think that I probably assume everyone on the board believes that we want access and we want an accessible playground and we want an appropriate pre-k playground I believe that fully I think what what I'm hearing is we want the design for access and having a solid design and a well-considered application of a ramp that's going to work well is that's the hold-up it has nothing to do with our level of good intentions so so if we is at the boards that's first I interpreted that way so I thank you for saying that Katie that we would not want to have access Chris I'm sorry but I have not heard that directly said before I haven't said you haven't inferred it I'm saying I haven't directly heard that before I have a couple questions the first one is when we were looking at the pre-k playground it became known that we couldn't really fence the entire pre-k area without making the entire pre-k area ADA compliant and accessible the footing changes to the footing we can't be grass so we were talking about fencing in a smaller area what dimensions are required for the actual school and if we fence the entire area there would we then have put mats down or footing change the footing for the entire area do you see do understand my question so I was surprised when I was at their last I guess we were talking to Kelly maybe and we're talking about the pre-k playground and I tried to ask as many ways I could to make sure I got it right but my understanding was is that we actually had to either reduce the size of the fencing or we needed to make the footing accessible for the entire area so we couldn't just like make the footing and the area accessible like I think it was 18 by 18 or 75 square so we couldn't you know let's say that we needed a hundred square foot area because it's easy we couldn't we couldn't just make a hundred square feet accessible and have the rest still fenced we would have to make the entire thing accessible or limit the entire kindergarten to the hundred square foot area so I believe that that is correct it's not it's not hundred square foot I'm saying to make it easy yeah and then the second question is how much space do you mean madding so um and then the how much space do we require to have for the the other playground so would we be needing to make that other playground smaller as well like is it so is the area such that it actually would all fit down here do you see what I'm getting at so there's the size guidance the other correct me if I'm wrong is tied to our pre-k licensure I think she's asking about the one you get to the big kid playground there is no there's my understanding that that's where the limitation is coming right yes 75 square feet per child like ours playground is huge let me set a little context here the agency of human services regulations for pre-k are much much more stringent than the anything on around the edgy agency of education so we're in the world of agency of human services regulations right now with a pre-k and a govern pre-k is equally as the agency of education and Deanna does as well and so does Joanne because you guys live in this world is that it makes it really hard for when we come to regulation issues access to the playground as a whole beyond pre-k is their requirement that there be madding I don't know the answers I don't think there is but I just we've had other students who've had accessibility issues and be fine on grass different requirements so Bill before I heard you're gonna have a hard time getting accessibility to everything and my first reaction on hearing that was just that that's kind of orthogonal as to whether it's the right thing to do right like and what we're talking about now even as you mentioned how hard it is you know have satisfying these requirements and going future what those might be it seems to me that's why now we need a comprehensive plan rather than this incrementalism that just says well we're gonna take care of the pre-k area and two years ago we're gonna be facing a new problem about having that we get dressed I'm actually saying the opposite of David okay well that's why I'm saying builder my recommendation of going for ramp all the way up is taking you for the long term where we were to bring a pre-k down and not able to move the playground from the top Deanna said of course there's also you know there are different ways of achieving that right and so yeah there's different designs but I need to know where we're heading for it because I need we have to engage money with black I would guess that there isn't the space in the small soccer field I mean mom's you probably know as well as anybody for both playgrounds and I just want to surface like who's to say we're not gonna have you know grades kindergarten through sixth grade student that needs accessibility like it can happen so which I think was a big part of our conversation the last meeting was making sure we do this the right way and not the fast way so I understand we're up against compliance that we need to get done but I as a board we all feel like we had asked for more input on guidance of this space because none of us were comfortable with any of the discussion we had or at least I wasn't comfortable with the discussion that we had at the last meeting I feel like we're just moving too fast contrary to what Kelly feels like I mean I wish this conversation happened a long time ago and maybe it did and I wasn't here on the board but these are big decisions not to be taking lately because you're gonna want a playground that is inclusive and accessible for years to come to any type of person and I'm worried we're under I'm not I'm not concerned about the money I'm worried we're underfunding something that's that's probably much more money that's what I said last time if you were going to do a whole playground in the ramp you were up around $90,000 and I have looked this up a lot and I've seen much higher yeah that's the conversation I feel like we need to have is how what does this look like and how inclusive do you want to be I get that we're up against a time right now but this does not feel like we've been dragging our feet I think we've been asking really good questions and I don't feel like we've gotten great answers so how much money would you commit to finding better expertise and who would you like us to use this block river charge by the hour they do how much they charge now it's $130 and the time given estimate and how long it would take to know if the medicine hadn't asked them for that so if we committed $5,000 to design purposes only that would be 30 hours so here's the thing because we talked about draining juices up there he's gonna have to bring in civil engineer concern not perkett it's how to drain it and where does the drain go I mean you're gonna get into you're gonna get into watershed issues up on the top no little soccer field okay so you're gonna get into all that either place because you're gonna get into drainage remember we just said that frost is going to be I think 5 is going to be low you might be thinking about 10 if you want design and options okay so if so if we committed $10,000 to design I think we'd be asking for analysis of what and also what would cost you know that's a more broad-based analysis of where the place I should be if you're talking about the little soccer field this is the drainage that we'd have to address in the small soccer field okay so I mean I'm hearing the board say that they want more information on little soccer field or building ramp to the upper like where the playground is now and they feel they can't make a decision on the location without more information and you're telling them they can't have a more detailed information about contracting and engineering I didn't I said well that's what we're just talking about right now so they would have to be willing to spend more to get to design or to they would have to look at alternatives for the little soccer field and alternatives for your larger field so you're looking at two places so you pay more for design don't under estimate how long it's going to take the next year to do the work yeah I'm not this is the conversation has been helpful I feel like I've gotten a little bit more information the last 10 minutes and we had before in terms of what just makes more sense feasibility and time in this because I think we do also have to be cognizant of what it's going to take to ensure that we do have accessibility the next school year the building for the building so I think we end up playing around both we should incorporate that into one I think because the building can be done now right building we can get some of the building pieces done this summer but today as I showed you told you last meeting they're not they're not big things but to add more accessibility but what I think we also need to look at what it's going to cause us to resurface this area to meet the concrete yeah that's not accessible either let's not meet the definition of accessibility out there anymore because of what the process is doing as I told you last time the definition now under the code is any variation over a quarter inch I mean my my concern was not wanting to overlook an alternate option that might be the non-obvious option but perhaps would have been better but we ignored it because we assumed the playground is here so that's what we're building the ramp if people's you know thoughts are shifting then you know I'm I'm open to that having heard more of this I just felt like we have to sort of consider these options so that we don't have this paradigm that this is the only place the playground I guess I've heard from a parent side of things and from what I've heard from teachers is that the upper playground often feels congested and that there's not open space for children's play so I guess when I hear this talk about the lower playground and I don't know what our numbers as a school look like but whether it's worth considering expanding the playground space or making that lower area more available to kids whether that drainage is worth it and I don't I'm not out at recess so I don't have those answers of what it feels like but I guess if that space is usable and there's ramps coming from both sides I don't know I just make sense as many times as I tried to walk to that upper playground myself like I can't even walk up and down that ramp and flip flops very so it's interesting to consider how that is going to be accessible for somebody even as a ramp and I see what's going to take a lot of reworking but I could see your concerns over how long just a point of clarification the ramp that's up there right now yeah does not meet ADA at all for slope right which is why it needs to be reworked it needs done much longer run I don't know I haven't surveyed it so I don't want to gather I don't want to guess a rate of climb on that but it's much much steeper than any okay any ADA accessible ramp it's clear why it's not working well do we want to talk about setting a direction I am open to us engaging with blackboard design to estimate out the ramp up there and all the accessible access points to the building as well I guess I continue to feel like I really have a hard time seeing how we are going to completely get rid of that area there it don't see it happening realistically and if I don't think that we need to get rid of like decide that it is a no-go zone and the school is never gonna use it I don't see that happening if that's not happening we have to have a ramp there even if we decided to make the playground different at some other point which I don't disagree I think you're totally right there could be this you know another solution that we just have to think outside the box instead of being fixated nonetheless we still need a ramp up to that area so for me it feels like the most efficient thing is to get the ramp to the area we have and then if we want to make additional playground renovations at some other time I suppose we could talk about it but I feel like I just don't see any other I don't see another option I guess I feel like that's the most practical efficient thing to do so as part of our commitment of money to Black River we could ask them to look at that and come back and say you give us an insight as to whether or not that is the most logical place to have the playground and if it is then what's give us the idea of the ramp there but have that as part of their overall picture because I think having if John's experience in this having him look at the entire complex is probably better way to just get information from him on that along with the ramp you know the idea because anytime we're going to expand access to space we have to expand access to it every time we expand use of space we have to expand the access to go to it right I think you make a valid point and do the room now but I wouldn't want to say if we decide to expand the playground I feel like we need to look at it as a when we decide because they're still not concerned of the timing to get up there and in years to come so I don't want I just I don't want the ramp up there to say well because that's not inclusive and I agree with you and I take your point the pre-k playground I don't I'm actually not in favor at all of putting in a bunch of expensive pre-k equipment and I think that we could talk about doing a much more creative playground that doesn't involve so many structures that maybe involves lots of wood that don't can easily be moved but we could then get accessibility we could have a playground now we're gonna have a ramp that we need no matter what and then it gives us time if we want to have engineers come in but I mean we have a kid coming into school that's not gonna be able to get up to the playground so I feel like if we make that playground workable now in a way that gets us access to that area and isn't too expensive I just don't see how we can go wrong and then we could start and actually maybe have a hope of getting it done but I don't think we get done in the same time. It's gonna be hard to find a contract for wood. I'm not gonna say we can't but it's hard. Do you have a sense in terms of what engineers cost because I'm not saying I don't think so if we could divide it by 130s and 115 hours of time I would hope that we do what you want for your building and that's 15,000 I'm sorry. It's okay thank you Chris. I just want to state that per the preschool childcare licensing that we do have to have many different gross motor structures on our pre-K playground while like many movable objects are great too that we have we still need climbing structures and other things that will come at an expense but we'll also bump our playground up to make our preschool program at Rummy a five-star program instead of its current four-star so we're on a four-star program when many of the other schools pre-K is in the district or at a five-star program because of our playground so our playground has been out of compliance for a really long time with our fencing and with our accessibility and with not having appropriate structures on our playground for pre-K only so we got we lost points because we were utilizing the older kid playground which is not pre-K compliant or safe enough for them so in order to spend the money now to then kind of look and see when community members will decide do I want to send my child to Rummy for pre-K if they're a four-star program or am I going to send them to another private school that's a five-star program I think that bumps it up to community engagement and kind of trying to bring people in because we are under enrolled right now and Rummy pre-K compared to other preschools in the district so then I guess that I also then have the second question of so we talk about the accessibility up so then what about that the playground what about the structure what about the money when is that when do we allocate all that conversation and money that's up to you if you want to set it aside for work I mean I feel like we have enough money in our capital fund to address the ramp and the preschool playground is my understanding from yeah the general numbers that we had at our last meeting which I know aren't fixed I gave you about 90,000 you currently just look into this so I can make it I don't want to say a number what's in your capital about looking at the report of course it's not this one it's not the last one is it a hundred and sixteen? as of last meeting as of last meeting well I'm in favor of you know actually actually your end of yes a hundred and sixty much we take out the boiler thank you we're building a ramp to access then we ought to be accessing a site that is also ADA compliant and functional for all preschoolers so I think that now is the time to invest and design in that so that we can create the right setting for a pre-k is there space within that current small preschool playground to make anything so there is room to play an appropriate structure within that space that current space is bigger than what's required by code actually we'll go up there and take it off the last meeting we walked around so there's plenty of space in that area to make it compliant and put appropriate structure within it so can I just get clear on what the board is asking from Black River Design so what we're looking for is a comprehensive plan as to what I was hearing and what I'm hearing they're not going to do comprehensive not of the plan itself of the ADA and the ramp yes the playground we go to we do what we did with the last playground we say what is type of structures we want we ask for bids to come back in I heard at some point a full site analysis I think that was describing the work that needs to happen like to make the access to the building smooth I think it's also available spaces well there's some discussion about having them analyzed where would the best site be for the playground if that's within their very best expertise and in conjunction with all of them all of the playgrounds are just the pre-gay I think all of them actually because it's an access issue for all of them ultimately so just so I was because of the way I kind of heard you saying it before too like you had mentioned you know there has to be the drainage work studied and like that would be a comprehensive thing but what you're looking for on hearing in this analysis is okay short of doing the full amount of work give kind of a rough idea of where would be what would be the demographic spot right and then worry about the details so you guys want a cost estimate of like if we put it on the soccer field if we were going to do something up here I think that would be part of the part of the work up it's just basically basically get a if option A would be this and this is why we think it's a good idea option B would be this and this is why we think it's a good idea and this is what each A and B would cost and commit an amount of money toward getting that information toward getting those estimates so they'll have to do surveying and all that how much would that run us to do that type of comprehensive analysis the more I pay the more comprehensive I'm sorry to say that but it's true it's the way it is and I didn't ask John for a quote to do all that work because in the initial cost estimates that you provided us was this was hit was any of it built into it not the way you're talking right now but was any of it built into it? no it was built in was he thought that he could do a design for a ramp to get up there for the 30 to 40 that I had in it the design with the ramp construction the ramp and the construction we get it done let's get this project done from beginning to end so if we I'm just thinking if we're you're actually a lot more right now you've at least how you laid it out of 15,000 that's 15,000 on top of upwards of potentially 100,000 I mean I would say yes using 15,000 to get the information that would then give us the option of which design to go with if we commit to a design of just going up on the where the playground is now then we can commit to that I want for us to take that into consideration because I know they originally gave the estimates built in he talked about accessibility and access points out of the rooms but not necessarily I wasn't talking about the rooms I was talking about the rooms what we're going to deal with here is drainage and run a water runoff we have a watershed issue here and this is that I don't know what we're not dealing with that I don't know what type of things you're going to run into there it is an accessibility issue it may be but we have lots of accessibility issues and we're taking one at a time and I'm sure we're not talking about because the drainage you'd have to dig up the concrete and do construction work underneath to create a better drainage pattern and then the concrete the whole thing okay so we're not talking about that right now that's what we mean I think we should be because we're talking about accessibility and the way you get into our building is inaccessible then what what do we do? that should be like priority number one then we should not be talking about the playground well I think we should be talking about all of that well I think the question about looking at the options and I raised that because I wondered if you know there was going to be some answer that said this would be great and solve a lot of problems but I think after hearing all of this the wet playground is potentially now too complicated as an option and it might not be a good use of our money to spend $15,000 to answer that question I was sort of wondering if the answer was going to come from the group or the audience but it seems like we might be in terms of having limited resources financially we need the best choices to take the access to the current playground and then that $15,000 could be some of what we could use to deal with our pavement access to the doors of the building so that's my rethinking and I just am willing to change my mind easily so I have a quick question does anybody in the audience have any thoughts they would be willing to share as to whether or not the present playground that we have up there does that function at all for somebody who needs wheelchair access or once you have a wheelchair up in that area can you just not really move from point A to point B the grass area is okay there's a stone underneath the slide structures and the swings not accessible at all wood chips iffy but the grass is okay as long as it's even it's okay the pre-tree area tends to be quite flooded in a large area in the entrance way like right in front of the shed like underwater pretty significantly for most of the spring part of the fall so that's where the pre-k playground is now and also the every play item on the pre-school playground is not handicap accessible we have a we have that wooden house that is not big enough for a wheelchair the sandbox has no wheelchair accessibility we don't have a handicap accessible we have a swing and we have a balance beam so those are the things that are on our pre-k playground right now and I think the last time I asked this and I can't remember the exact answer but I had asked if we could do things in phases like could we make it accessible with the swing now and kind of do this in phases and there was a reason that we couldn't but I can't remember I think Amy spoke about that we'd have to upgrade the fence like once you start making changes the fence, my understanding is no longer grandfathered yep so then you've lost your playground the fence that we have is not compliant so per the new licensing regs from a couple years ago or so that once any construction begins you have to then be in compliance with the new and current regulations so our fence that we have has been grandfathered in but is not up to par so if we start doing any kind of construction then licensing could come and say we can't operate preschool here because you didn't fix the fence when you did x, y, and z I apologize for my ignorance because I think you already know this but what's the deal with the fence compliant or not? you have to have a fence of at least four feet as a dm height and it has to have less than two and a half inches I believe between the bars all around the playground our fence can be climbed by kids and they can get out so that's supposed to a great safety risk in the past so we have to kind of go all in when you start doing construction but we're just talking about preschool right my understanding there's absolutely no regulations on anything else that could provide for the older kids ADA compliance but as far as Department of Education Department of Education does not have actually our insurance is more stringent than the Department of Education but it comes to play it's just the truth if we were in Massachusetts it would be a whole other ballgame the Department of Education in Massachusetts is much more stringent than insurance companies but our insurance company is the one that actually certifies our playgrounds can we have just a basic assessment on the prioritization on accessibility issues so we're at least saying what the most important issue in terms of accessibility is working down I think John can do that for you overall I'm assuming you're asking that in terms of overall accessibility so John can do that but in terms of what we're doing now I'm assuming access to the building for wheelchair in terms of getting in and out is a priority for this upcoming year can we just say for all instead of for wheelchair so sorry so that would be certainly a priority access to the current playground would be a priority the access to the building can be a multi-factorial issue is there an access issue from the parking lot to the sidewalk and to the building it's the type of material and what happens to that material usually you stay mad to a in-academy parking space is usually what's done at a minimum so you know the gray material that's like crushed up slate that's usually a minimum where the vest is asphalt with drainage and all that we see in our other schools for these issues we view staying mad as a solution instead of going to asphalt do we have an access to that and what I mean by that is getting from the parking lot onto the sidewalk we have a ramp on our current sidewalk right now actually I think what the improvement that could be sought is actually to make the ramp accessible from where the handicap parking place is which is why I was just talking about with the staying mad and then like the parking place is here and the access is way over there so moving the handicap to the parking space hopefully we'll have to move it right in front of the school you make a cut to the curb cut it'll be a new ramp at the end of the sidewalk versus ramp and the third item which John can't do but we have a recommendation right is the pre-cape playground structures if we have to have this for the next meeting then I think that needs to be part of it we have an estimate I think it's going to run 20 grand I'm likely to do the pre-cape playground with the staying mad defense and then getting planning around some better equipment for kids that's going to be a minimum of 20 grand and that's is that for a structure that just can be accessible but I mean like is it just kind of a basic structure with some accessibility or is it really like inclusive with OT sensory like all of that this is basic and I guess that's where I'm concerned that we're missing a bigger picture of all well you can have wait I think I or they could like plan for it and you could do that that's what I've been asking yeah that's what I'm like you know keep adding structures and more structures and new structures for the year and many of them have smaller features that you can add in that way within your typical budget it's not a big hit to capital but I think bare minimum to get anything that would be facilitating gross motor as well as the imaginary play that our regs really are looking for it's going to take 20 to 25 to just kind of get us including the fence or the fence that was another 10 can we make sure that this Murray and other pre-k you know instructors are involved in that design yeah I think I think I would rather have like a dollar amount I mean they do really well as far as like bringing those various voices together into several plans I wouldn't want to like get too rigid with that at this point yeah I mean that's what helped with the last playground is the board you were really so this is the amount we're going to commit to the project go forth and we actually came back with a little bit more of you were generous to say sure let's go for that extra more so okay we need having a target is really helpful and then getting the right people into that design so so we have 20,000 from the pre-k 10 is that in middle is that for equipment yes that's in 9 30 so remember we I just want to go back to the minutes that you just approved that I'm looking forward in here looking at my notes from last time that I had here so I just want to make sure if it's right here in the minutes we had said your total 90 and we had said we had said from my notes here I had had 10 for the 10 for the ramp I have 10 for the fence we had about 20 for the play and then I'm going to go back to my calculator and make sure I did this right this the ground material that you need to have was did we agree on the matting ground is that what you that's what I'm talking about that saw for the entire hold on yeah it was about $10,000 for the mat for the mat so 10 for the fence 10 for the mat 40 for the ramp and we we've been roughly saying about 90 total for this whole thing so that is does that include the no the rampway what we were talking about for the classroom door that goes out is that we built some wood ramps so that can be done on your maintenance budget but this access thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you I was just looking at the memo I gave you last time go ahead so I heard I know that we have a real flooding problem up there and I'm wondering what I mean I would hope that we would take care of that at the same time and I don't know if this stay met would take care of that or if not then we need to we're going to rebuild the playground up there we're going to do the site work around it so he's not flooding I think that can fit within the estimates that we have for the ground material and for the fence and for all that I don't think that's a big deal for any of that is a big cost the bigger cost I see is for any site work is the ramp and getting that so it's probably drain it doesn't frost the ramp's not directly to that the ramp's going to go across the long part of the ground I understand but remember it would have to be handrails the whole way and we've got to do the footings and we've got to have in order for a ramp not to for anything in Vermont not to freeze and thaw which it will and see anything that hasn't lasted for it you've got to have drainage down at least three to four feet so you've got to go or we have ledge up there and we've got no drainage the water is between the ledge and whatever is between that the subsurface and then the ramp itself so good Megan you've done you've done a little bit Joanne and I had noted that cost-effective solution for the ground is that Lexi had noted that the grass is okay and so we not doing the entire pre-K playground with the same out or whatever it is the rubber material those rubberized material don't think of the ones that I'm glad Allison asked us last time it's not the ones that you've seen in the gym they have cushion to them and we want grass and trees and I I think everybody does and then I also went to Oakledge Park for All in Burlington this past weekend to just check it out they just built a a new accessible playground and it's if anybody has a chance and if you're ever out in Burlington it's a great spot to go they just added they had the seven universal principles for design hanging on their board and they did have some great play structures from landscape structures so they do a lot of handicap accessible places and also play works and comp-in which we know that Amy used comp-in before for the other playground but so those are the three places that the three companies that I have researched that have some good handicap accessible structures can you make sure the context for those are in the minutes if you don't mind please landscape structures are we at a crossroads? I feel like we are either ready to wait or something play works do we want to comp-in with a K? I think we want to commit it to something so okay but do we want to just have it so that we commit it so we can have reports back on the different phases because it sounds like the first phase is going to be design and this is what we think the design is going to look like and this is what we think it will cost so that we start doing the estimating and researching and finding out what is really up there where aware of it as it goes along as opposed to here's $90,000 and you don't need to report back and delegate the authority to sign contracts which is essentially what we would be doing because Black River is not doing at all in terms of the building the playground so how do we want to handle that I think there are other options that hopefully have one to discuss so are we on the same page that we want to get a ramp up to the upper playground and put a pre-K area in the upper playground including a fence and a stay map and I think the thing that didn't have a dollar value attached but I think we need to commit funds to is that access to the building in front I don't know if that's a question that Black River has asked they can tell us what we need to do so they can design it I think you're I just don't know because I haven't had the conversation with John about the design on that and the other thing is that there will be a school board deciding these issues as of probably as of July 1 and that could be something that they need to do and I've informed the new board chair of this conversation tonight there was an ADA issue with the school that would need to be talked about by the new board just so you know this is something that's going to come to your board because you're going to have to ADA is an issue that will be so I would be in favor of because our bracket and board of calculations have consistently come to this number saying $70,000 for the ramp dealing with the footing dealing with the fence issue because that's one company that would do that and then there's a whole separate company that deals with the actual playground structure and I thought something on your $20,000 to that so we could approve is that an everything black paper would deal with the $70,000 items combined I want to check with John but if you were to commit to the concept of that design needs to be done by the appropriate folks whether John says I can do up to here and then you need to get other people we can tell you who the other people are for the playground pieces it's a cost estimate and I'd like to do it for one location for what it's going to take from a Johnston design because I'm right where Mary Lynn is and say hey let's get as much of the can into that playground for structures and play it for the kids so it's kind of knowing knowing that top and I think this is where you were going Allison but you were trying to break it into two different components we'll either way with you but this is the amount we're willing to spend yeah it just seems like it's two things like one's all the site work and ramps and that's the playground company doesn't do that and then the playground company does the playground equipment they do the equipment and the matting as I believe in my rather than Amy okay then it'd have to be 30 and 60 because we were calculating something like $10,000 for actual footing around the structures Matting, you're talking about matting not drainage but just the mat structures so we could say we could authorize $60,000 for the design that we approved to get up there deal with the drainage up at the top and get a fence in the pre-K area and then we could authorize again a design for up to $30,000 for mats and structures and then hopefully we would get an estimate and come back would we get approved or not approved is that reasonable would that be a separate if we want to do it all together we'd have to add in more money for the project yeah I think we have to know what we're talking about first in terms of what it's really going to take I mean we should know that because we can't commit I mean I look at that I think it's a significant project to take up you're talking about taking up both the concrete figuring out how to work the drainage which would probably include some typing and drainage right maybe digging into the driver I don't know Chris stormwater that's why I say we already know where the stormwater folks are we're in phase two of that work but we need to commit some funds to design to get to input right would that be black river that's black river that's all black river so do we want to come up with a trying to say a number for whether you're designing what do you have any sense in terms of what the cost would be to have this area out here meaning that the drainage should be the stable I used to have a stay mat put on my driveway and a culvert put in for $22,000 so I cannot imagine that this is cheap this has got to be a $50,000 project at least and probably more than that we could pop a number on there and say something like come back just with something that's $60,000 or less we just want to figure out what the project is and get an estimate for what that is I liked where you were going for the others so we can get going on that but for the front committing some money towards like what's this going to cost us to get a cost system to repair this and to fix what we have less than a work fix let's do something that's going to stay for 10 years and then stays permanently with concrete and asphalt and the reason we're doing this in two different phases for this for the front of the building is because we have no back of the envelope estimation I didn't come with you for a back of the envelope estimation for the front of the building just to have an estimate just to let you know what we're doing we don't have as great I mean John gave us a day for the back that was right we just don't know what's out there and so I think knowing certainly commit funds to knowing what there is what we need to know and can I hear again from everybody that you want him exploring one site not multiple sites for the playground? is that unanimous? that would be great that's why it hasn't been clear on all these so do we have consensus? anyone want to try it in motion and then we'll make sure it's inclusive as much as we can be and sensible make the motion crispy so can we move and please this is just a tentative motion wording subject to work I move that we commit $90,000 toward accessibility to the playground to include to accessibility issues to include accessibility to the playground in its current location to include a ramp to include rehabilitation of the pre-K playground that it is accessible to include structures for the pre-K playground and roof dancing and any drainage that needs to be accomplished to ensure greater accessibility to the pre-K playground in its current location in access in and out of the building design well no construction actually you're talking about a small small stuff do you need feel that needs to be I don't need that in there I don't need the building pieces that we talked about last time because that's something we're just going to get done this summer out of the maintenance budget okay is that on the project list it's for where the project list exists yeah right now we're still getting that taken care of okay that's my motion wait but doesn't it I think we omitted the part about having access for the I think there's a separate there's a separate does that mean we include it but that includes the place equipment too I think it's better it's all inclusive and it's up to getting a good design did you get that can you repeat the fact 90,000 toward accessibility issues to include accessibility to the playground in its current location a ramp location of the pre-k playground that is accessible new structures for the pre-k playground new fencing any drainage that needs to be accomplished to ensure greater accessibility to the pre-k playground in its current location the only thing I would request to modify is just take out the accessibility issues part and just say you create accessibility to playground for all and take out accessibility issues just remove that so as far as discussion does anybody in the audience who have any feelings about whether or not you all think this would meet the needs of present and possible future students does this feel like a reasonable option do we need to include in that is it assumed that it is then compliant with whatever you also need to get the five stars what happens well I don't know we can say that because we don't know we'll have all the play equipment that's hard to say and I would be limiting on that because you're the expert so stop me when I go off it's hard to know how things are scored how it's scored I guess I was just thinking when we are including the fencing and grace motor equipment that it is assumed that those will then meet the standards but I can't say that because how someone comes and judges and scores us I would say it would be licensing regulations maybe that's the stars versus place in place just that we're in compliance different tiers what we're going for here we haven't seconded the motion I seconded it before it was re-read I'll second the motion in its division do we need a part of it to so the black river no actually the awarding of contracts does not require an RFP and I don't need your motion to say that so we use black river for all the work around the SU except for one building that has experience with the river this facility has a track record for the black river so I would want to switch it because we're not going to restart plans and elevations and all that but then in terms of the playground structures when that comes up that will be a conversation with probably one of those three that Deanna just talked about or another comparable of that same type in a conversation with whatever board probably and as was said with experts that are at that developmental level when there were many different types of positions mentioned in the audience and I think they should all be part of it and probably even some other community members parents and just like we did with the last one I mean we did an awesome job of working with the kids and let's look at different options in design and just so I'm clear this puts aside Chris's other idea of kind of doing an overview on what would be the possibility for other sites in terms of playground it's committing to a direction any other discussion we need a second motion on that we need a second motion on that we need a second motion on that we need a second motion on that okay I'm going to make a second motion to commit $6,500 for evaluation and estimate for analyzing the area outside of the main entrance way to the school and around the side of the school to address accessibility and drainage in a sense of what needs to be done out there to address the unevenness of the access to the school and $65,000 the guy is $135,000 divided by $130,000 is $50,000 and I know that he would cover engineers and stuff like that but it works well and you should get I shouldn't talk about your turn to your motion was that a motion? that might be a different one is there a second? a shorter second? any suggestions for modification? that you say we would that the motion be we would like to retain an architect to not to exceed $6,500 for just rehabbing the front of the school access to the front of the school that's it I don't know about that I'll take that for a minute I'll second any discussion? well I don't be nitpicky for an hour and a half reach a agenda item here get ready guys so um you're life savers you're not an estimate on a plan I feel like I don't really entirely know what the you're going to get a plan but why don't you throw in there so I guess what I'm saying is I feel like we ought to be able to get a cost estimate for what a plan is going to be rather than I think we're picking $6,500 that's why I'm saying you should include a cost estimate the cost of a plan I'm suggesting that we do it in two stages we get an estimate for how much a plan is going to be for this because I actually think given the groundwater issues we actually might have a plan that's quite a bit more expensive than that if we need to deal with treating groundwater and where it's flowing I feel like it could easily exceed that or maybe it doesn't have to be as much but if we say $6,500 and it only needs to be $2,000 how is anybody going to make I don't know it just feels like we should just ask for an estimate for what a plan is if it's a big ticket item do you think it's too much money? I just have no feel for what a plan is going to cost and I think I don't know if they're going to end up having to do digging test pits to see where water is draining and it feels like maybe if we had a plan then we would if we had an estimate of what they would need to put into it then they could make the plan that we need I guess do you want an estimate for design? I want an estimate for design because I think there's going to be multiple parts involved with fixing the front of the building but I think when you say not to exceed you're going to get as much as John can give you up there with a cost system in it and if he needs more detail he'll probably come back to you and say hey I need more than I don't think he's going to need more than $6,500 I don't think it's going to take up to $6,500 because I just know from the construction we have a lot of detailed elevations about front we don't have it from the back because at one point we're looking at paving that whole circle so you feel comfortable that John is going to be able to give us if that only cost $7,000 he's going to charge us a thousand dollars that's all he does that's one of the reasons I like work on a blocker where they're good about saying to hear it's not to they're not to read the myths John's good but he teaches a good guy a little bit he's good to say that's what it takes and that's how I want to get you there one thing I'd like to see explicitly considered is the maintainability of it because we all do appreciation to our maintenance staff for the unevenness of it but just the freeze they constantly have packed snow that just doesn't get salted but it doesn't get cleared off whether that means concrete heating or some other aspect of dealing with the packed snow and ice that is constantly there I think is going to be a big factor so I want the maintainability considered in addition to just what the basic cycle is I would expect that that's a very good point is that that would be insured as part of creating an open access space how to insure and that's making sure that it's clear I would imagine that would be kind of a happy part of the expectation of the building is that we have to have it so it's not packed with ice or snow yeah I'm wondering if that's something that can be incorporated into the building is like the thing of the concrete itself kind of like wiring high pipes or radiating if it's possible whether it's worth getting a cost maybe we shouldn't have David move too far I'll just talk to John I'll just talk to John whether it's being feasible all right I'm okay can you any other comments on the motion? it's got something very good can we can we read the motion just so we can go on to obtain an architect for $6,500 for evaluation an estimate of analyzing the area of the main entrance way to the school and around the side of the school to address accessibility, drainage and get a sense of what needs to be done to address the unevenness of the access to the school so that was the wording for your order wait, wait and can we scrap that motion that one I move that we commit up to $6,500 for an estimate and for addressing the accessibility in front of the building front side, but yes what? we should probably include the side I think it's the main pathway to the building main access to the building the front side entrances the front entrance the main pathway to the building probably and I'm sorry, can you second it? very much any more discussion one favor? can you pause? passes do you want to take a break? so next up is the end for my friends sorry more in the back you're going to have a minty cloud not really you know the it's probably Okay, next up is session of the continuing vocation for sound issues. Last meeting we created up to $93,000 for that project. Is that recall? Passive resolution. Passive resolution because you didn't have enough money to do two projectors. Okay, so what are we looking at in terms of money right now? Well you just committed up to 90 and you had 116 so now you're down to 26. Okay, and what's in the general fund balance? There's about $116,000 right now, the general fund balance. And you'll need to go, you need to do, do, do, do, do, do, connect. Sorry, can you give me two seconds? I'm putting a note to call John tomorrow morning so I'm just going to make sure I don't. Do we need to factor in the $6,900 to that future two or something? Yeah. Yeah, so that was $6,965. So right now you have in your total budget for this year, and this is one of the things we'll be talking about on the 17th, is 3.3. Alright, so you have, one of the recommendations Lori and I have been working on is that one and a half or is it 2% to cross over in fund balance? So that needs to stay in the checking account as you cross years here. We're thinking it's probably going to be 2% where we're trying to get down to one and a half that we're going to be recommending to all elementary schools on June 17th. And 2% is that of the budget? Of the overall budget. And what is that number? The overall budget is $3.3 million, $66,000, that is 2%. You need to leave, you have $116,000 in there so I was about to do that difference for you right now. $50,000? Yeah, or so. $50,000, so $50,000 plus $25,000. $70,000. Yeah, but that's without any contingency for either project. So this is $75,000? Maybe about $75,000. And that can change but that's where you are right now. $75,000, what's left over to $14,000? Yes, that's like putting all the pennies in the jar. Now didn't you also say last that we're looking at $5,000 to $10,000 and just soft maintenance costs? Things that weren't going to come out of the capital budget were going to be coming out of the operating budget that we needed to factor in? Yeah, we were taking care of most of those through the operational budget this year. So I think those are in closeout on like 99.9% share but I didn't ask that question before. So those are in closeout so we don't need to factor that in? I think that would be something. I think we signed for all those, yeah. The other thing I haven't signed for is that the contractor hasn't been selected. But we know what that is and we think we can do that in the surest budget last time. So the answer is yes. Brian, you mentioned stuff in the budget before that little things that maybe needed to be done. Is that what you're speaking about? I think so. At the last meeting when we were kind of doing this analysis, Bill mentioned that over 116 that we had left some of it was going to be spent on just little things. Yeah, we're trying to, I mean our goal, what we're doing this year and this is a tactic with all the elementary schools. A little bit with U2 but not so much is that any like maintenance, anything that we can pull out of this year's budget because we're usually, we don't mind rolling over with extra cash and fund balance but we're trying not to do that. So we're trying to basically spend it now as much as we can. Okay. Can we roll it through? Yes. I mean, I can't say that number Chris, I shouldn't say it yes that way. All boards are committed to rolling as much as they can into their capital funds. No, no, no, I mean rolling over into an operational fund for the new. I can't operationally say anything smaller is responsible. Okay, but I'm asking you, all the boards, it's still a board decision. Yeah, and I can't say yes or no to you without having all the boards in one room. Well, have you heard from any that they're not committing to that? No. But I can't, I haven't heard from anyone that they would commit to that either. Okay. I'm just going to give it right back to you. No, I know, I know. So are you over the first meeting that you raised the topic? No, I've been, we've been having this for a couple of months. I've been saying we're all trying to move it into our capital. No, I know that. And I said to everyone on June 17th, I've been saying this for two months now. On June 7th, it was going to be June 5th, but now we moved it. So it's June 17th. We'll give you all an estimate at that time exactly where it's going to be based on what the flow of cash is going in and out. But you just can't cut off the checking book, the checkbook too early. And then that will go into the general fund balance. We also know, we've also commented, I've said this in other meetings. We think U32's fund balance will basically take care of what the new fund balance will be for the Emerge District. You don't need to keep, I mean, all together. We've given you some reports for many 80 years now that there's combined fund balance. We now have six schools of about $2.1 million, with the entity as large as Washington Central Unified Union School District. We only need a fund balance. We think of somewhere around $600,000 to $750,000. So we can take a lot of those funds and invest it into schools, into learning. It means whether it's facilities or whatever. Because there's a bigger, the risk gets spread out over a bigger entity. So you don't need the 4% was kind of pulled out of thin air at some point many years ago. There's no golden rule. It's a risk analysis calculation. That's why if we were at Dodie, they don't even use the 4% these. Like what's the biggest cost going to be in these $75,000. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Can I just ask for clarification? At the May meeting, it was my understanding that there was in the funds expected to be available after the merger. Enough money to make the acoustical renovations in the gym happen. And that was, we're talking 90,000 or so. Can somebody explain to me how the 66,000 or whatever it is that's 2% have that dropped out? Because I don't understand what it's for. So what's happening is with the, you can't take all the money out of the general fund on July 1st. And put it into the capital fund. You have to allow some money to be in that general fund to keep the place. You've got to pay bills and there's other pieces that we need. We can't take out, I've been saying to the boards for six months now, we can't empty everything out of the general fund and put it into a capital fund. But is that money that will sort of reappear later? It'll be in the new entity. It doesn't mean the new entity can't use it and commit it towards something, whether it be capital projects or not. It just, it will be in the new entity. Okay. Is that money used to paying ongoing expenses like salaries and things like that? Or is it for non-ongoing? It's a cash flow situation piece, the way Laura's explained it to me. So if I just have for ongoing bills like salaries, well, we're keeping the lights on or paying? All the above. All the expenses that are caught happening 12 months a year. So where does the funding, if the budget passes? Yeah. Where does that funding then come into play? For any operational expenses, ongoing operational expenses? Any operational, anything that's billed after. So here's the thing, when electricity happens, you don't get billed on the 30th of the month. And we all get electricity bills. I don't know what our day of the month is for revenue. It's different for all six buildings. Sure. So part of that's going to be, let's say it's the 20th of June. The 20th of June bill will be paid out of the remedy budget. And July 20th bill will be paid out of the new entity budget. Okay. So this 2%, 66,000 dollars. Yeah. Is that money that isn't all used will return? You'll see it as a revenue into the new Washington Central Unified Union School District. It won't come back to us. It won't come back to us. Okay, so reason for that? Because that's the way the accounting rules are. That's all I can tell you, Chris. We run under GAP and under Handbook 2. Yep. For education rules for accounting. I swear I leave it to Lori and Lori as the expert. It sounded like what I also heard was that while 2% is the prudent amount to keep in your fund balance, after all six boards commit their 2%, we will actually have quite an excess of money in the new district's fund balance. I haven't done that calculation, Katie, so I can't say that. I thought that's what you just said. What I can say is that right now we have a real excess of money because of all, everyone keeps separate fund balances. And that total that's separate is about 2.1 million dollars. Of general funds. Of general funds. We know we need about 600,000, our estimates right now are between 600,000 and 750,000. It's a $150,000 swing. And I think I'm siding with there's a lot more comfort around the 750 area to keep on for all in the new entity. But if we only funded 1.5% in our fund balance, that's a difference of $15,000. Right. Which it seems like the fund balance among all the schools going into a potential merger is in excess of the 700. Yes it is, but most of that, the majority of that fund balance sits at U32. So at U32, of that 2.1 million, almost half of it is U32. Which it should be, it's got half the students. That's a unified fund. And we thought, I mean, I want to give credit where credit's due. This is a Stephen Bellinger paid idea, which is a great one I think. It's already owned by Apple Five Towns. Why not use that to fund balance? You know, the new board could say, hey, we didn't use that revenue of the extra 66 for Romney and whatever it is for the other four. Put that into the capital fund. I could see the board doing that. But I just don't want to speak for that. That's a decision the unified union board will have to make. And I think they could, because you're going to see any fund balance that comes in as an excess revenue. That's the way it works this first year. And then there will be fund balances every other year after that. So in terms of the general rehab issues, I would like to make the motion that we commit as much as possible toward that project. When we reconvene on the 17th, when we have a better idea as to what we'll have available to us. But that we take that up again on the 17th of June. That would be my recommendation. A second. Just closing. I don't know if we need to be in motion, but a sense of the board. I disagree. But I mean, I disagreed with the original proposal. I love the idea. I mean, if we had limitless funds, I would love to completely renew our gym. But that money comes from somewhere. I mean, it's like saying, oh, we're getting a grant to do this, so you can kind of spend it willingly. Like even that offends me. Like it comes from somewhere. It is somebody's money. We have windows that need to be done. We have, I feel like we have so many things in the school we need. And to me, that is just not, like, I feel like we have to address the priorities. And to me, that is not a priority is to be able to have, believe me, I would love to, Elliot. And the proposal you brought is amazing. But I don't, when we are cutting money here and there, I just do not see how we can possibly try to spend $90,000 to make a space that, you know, for the community to enjoy as a music and get together space that feels irresponsible to me. Not that I don't think it's a good plan. I do. But I feel like we have other things that are more important. There are other fires that need to be put out before we can go make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. So, I think what that overlooks is the impact that has on students during the day. So it's not only a community meeting issue. It's also a student priority issue. But is it part of the job of the school to teach students how to be able to deal with their sensory issues? Because that's going to be part of life everywhere. So we can help students deal with these issues. We can find ways to... And we can also, I think it's about creating a more inclusive environment that's comfortable for students. And that room is gym, cafeteria, and auditorium. So it is a very multifunctional space that serves a lot of needs for students day and night. So I think that has a big impact. I think that's true of a lot of gyms at a lot of schools. So for me, I do kind of... I understand and agree about sensory issues, but I feel like it's more of a want than a need. I do feel like there are things that need to be probably addressed. I think we also have to think about a couple of things. Where students spend the bulk of their day, and if we're thinking about sensory issues, are the places that they're spending the bulk of their day addressing those in the most effective manner. That's appropriate, which I would imagine is a classroom. But the other issue that I don't think we haven't talked about with this is that we are going to be basically have depleted all of our capital funds at this rate, especially with only putting in 40,000, is that the new board, that you guys are going to be faced with the situation of having to start to rapidly ramp up the capital fund in these buildings in order to pay for the needed things that need to happen. So in order to do pay for those costs, what's the alternative that's potentially cutting staff? So I think that's the longer thing to take into consideration. Even our tech budget hasn't been like we have an ongoing tech budget that we haven't been able to, with our reduced capital fund, there's no way to pay for that, I don't think. No, the tech budget is all set. It has a constant number over here, staying. So we're going to revisit that. I had something to say. We are, but not here. You 32. Thank you 32. Carousel. Yes. Okay. And they'll have better financial information. We will. I did want to say something. I'm sorry. There's a sense of random issues. You made a really good point about they don't spend all the day in the gym. But sensory issues bleed over outside of the one spot where it happens. It bleeds into the rest of their day, into their classroom, into the interactions with friends in the hall, into their day. And it's an everyday thing. And I'm not fighting because I get where you are with the money and it's a big amount of money. It's more than what you have left. I'm not saying one way or the other, but you have to look at the sensory issues too. It's a big issue for kids. And these are young kids. So when they're dealing with sensory issues, yes, we can teach them, but it takes time. It takes a lot of time and it takes more capacity than they sometimes have. So then they bring behaviors back to the classroom. It disrupts everybody in that classroom. You know, we just began setting up a sensory room to begin to address some of the ways to support students. And, you know, I feel like that project has not been completed. Or is it done sufficiently? And I know that we lack sensory quality issues in the school. Yeah. I mean, she was more than willing to bring her equipment, et cetera, but it's still a shared space. So I mean, if the board is interested in doing something of that nature, there are many ways to address that student need that allows for that. I think there's a note. I'm not saying where it must be, but I wanted to say that there's a need. So are we tabling this then? This is Paris. Shall we do the Paris system now? The Paris training issue. If you want to add Kelly's in. Don't worry, Kelly's in it. I'll probably add some to it. Sure. That would be great. Thank you. Is this for people that need it? I know some people I've been trying to think of. So Kelly, shall we from Maryland? Chris, do you want to take a break from Maryland? Yeah, let's take a short break right now. That's the only reason you're taking a break from Maryland. Was this the third page? Was that that one? This is exactly what she said. Now, do you read me this one? Because I think I'm UPS. It happens all the time. Thank you. Okay, we're back. Is the interview ready? Go back in. Okay. Second show. Do you want to start up with reading from Kelly? I can't do that. Kelly, maybe when I add a little context and I'll have short readers. So I just wanted to kind of rewind on this a little bit. About two years ago in labor management, the ESP association, which one of these is not part of, or Doe is not part of, but the other four. We started bringing up an issue that we were contracting out more and more for contracted workers to come into Washington Central and work in positions to aid students. Our two main contractors for that are Green Mountain Behavior Associates or Washington County Mental Health. You've seen probably on the board orders. We started having conversations that it would be better to have, and we were having issues which the school's experienced as well, is that sometimes we don't have hiring rights over the contractor and who they bring in, they can bring in whoever they like. We've had issues at this buildings and others where that hasn't worked out and that's not been good for kids. So we came to an agreement and finalized it at negotiations this spring. And two years ago we did an MOU because we were in between contracts that we could hire our own behavioral interventionists and personal care attendants. That came into the latest negotiations for ESP for the other four schools. And we agreed upon that we would do that and we agreed upon job descriptions that how job descriptions and how trained would occur. We also agreed that, and this is something that was done in the MOU and we stayed with, is that they would be paid at a rate because they needed other qualifications above what a paraeducator needs to have, that it would be a 10% increase to the current pay scale. And the big agreement we came to was that we had this big idea that isn't it better to have our own staff who are trained and can stay with kids for multiple years because that's the other thing with contractors usually they don't stay for more than a year and then pop around and go to another. That it would be better to have our own staff trained and that we can keep them for longevity with the students. And that it would be better for the association because they would have, we have a recognition clause. There's a union, used to association union agreements. There's a recognition clause of the job positions they cover and that they want membership. The recognition clause means that we recognize that for this case it'd be the one, it's not in Romney but for the Romney teachers that the Washington Central Teachers Association represents them and that they, that folks that are in the association and now because have rights to be part of that, people that are teachers are those types of jobs have the right to be part of the association. When the Supreme Court struck down the Fair Share Act in all states, it's been about eight months now I think. It's somewhere eight to ten months I see. That it's, that we can't, the association can't compel everyone to be part of the union because they have a right to access it. And that the, and that the contract that's there that's agreed upon represents the contract for all folks in those job class, those job categories that are covered. So that's really kind of like, it's the, that general contract covers all those job, all those job class applications. So one of the things that I did my first year here and it had been happening under Robert Brooks before I was here but by the end of my first year it had been done is we made sure that folks had equal experience not years serving but equal experience were being paid the same rates at Doty and Romney as what we're happening in the union agreement. And we re-audited that again this spring because as we knew we were moving to one entity we really wanted to ensure that. I also checked with Scott Cameron our attorney to say Scott, what happens with Romney and Doty? They're not represented. Do they automatically come into the union? Do they automatically not? He actually advised me to have a conversation with Romney and EA which I did not but he did some looking for us and he believes that the site has to vote to become into the union not for the individual, if they vote to become part of the union individual members can choose to become or not. And the analogy for this that I think works better if it's at a larger scale, if you think of the United Auto Workers they have a contract with Ford. Now Ford has several plants. Not every plant has to be part of the union until that site votes that they want to be part of the union. And I'm using the exact same analogy Scott used with me and I thought it was brilliant. And then once that plant is then workers in that plant can choose to join. So it's physically site specific. So Romney decided to join the union they could and Doty could stay out. Doty chose to go in and Romney did not. But it's a vote of the folks that are in those job classifications at that site. And then individuals can choose. So one of the things that Romney did years ago as a board which was great, you decided to give all the same benefits to your non-licensed staff. I want to try to say it that way. All your non-licensed staff has what was happening across the district for those that were in the association. Except for one regard that was different. You had them allow them to have access to municipal retirement. The states from municipal retirement. We've never had that in anywhere but central office. The rest of the ESP only had access to a 403B retirement system. So in this new negotiated agreement we also agreed to add municipal retirement. So that folks that are out in the ESP and the other have access to municipal retirement as well. You may say what's this have to do with training staff? It's just so you understand we have to get everything to one because the labor law, and Chris you probably know this ten times better than I do. Probably don't. Oh you're not a labor law. I thought you were with all your... We're with Scott. So what Scott said to me is you cannot provide unequal compensation for people working the same job within one organization. And that just makes sense right? So if we have a paraeducator here at Romney and a paraeducator at U32 with the same job classification with the same number of years of experience they need to pay equally and they may have to have access to the same benefits. So... I would say that depends on the contract actually. Because they just... NPR just had... they negotiated two tiers for newer employees and older employees doing the same work. They're trying to get away from that because it was... But anyway... That's what the advice Scott gave me. He said you want to make sure you're doing everything the same. So the nice thing is we have all of our... from Carla did the analysis. It was probably a month ago or finished the analysis a month six weeks ago saying hey, everyone at Romney... There were a couple people who had to adjust those if it wasn't anybody at Romney but we've got everyone paid where they should be based on their experiences and based on the summary scale. So we said okay and then what happened was Kelly, we've been working on this project to get the I's and PCA's as a job class into the negotiated agreement on the idea of let's get more people in and sort of not working on contractors that's going to save us some money for people that are our own employees which will be much better for students. So Kelly put out from the negotiation of that contract we said hey, we're not going to tell everyone they have to take it, it's a choice whether they would like to take the training and if they take the training does that mean their BI or PCA? No, it means that they have access to do that and if you have that training so choose to take the job and do you want to tell me if I go anywhere to either explain today or I forgot I'm trying to stay right to that same piece is that you can take that training and then if you choose to take a job that has a BI or PCA you'll get that 10% you don't get that 10% extra just because you have the training you kind of have to do that type of work you got to take the work There are a couple other questions and Joanne I'm going to ask you to help me with what I forget from your questions because I thought they were great, they were right on point but was if I become a PCA and a BI does that mean I get moved around that's the big question do I get to get moved do I get moved around and the answer is I can't tell you for tomorrow I can't tell you for two years from now because student need changes we want to have people we know that long term longevity with students co-workers is better for school systems and better for kids so we want to keep that what we want to be able to do is say to our employees if we have to riff you from the school we'd rather have you have the ability to go and have a job somewhere else without saying to you you have no job and so having that training will that help you yeah that gives you more qualifications you know the contract of the ESP is a two weeks notice when student need changes if a student decides to move out it's a two week notice we haven't always done that sometimes we've cut people on for the rest of the year usually every summer and I know today Kelly is working with a special educator so I didn't get a chance to talk to her because that was after you and I met with her and the rest of the parents you should just say Joanna was the whole group and we said hey let's you know they're looking at the student needs as we do every year and we look at it in October trying to forecast it from a year we do it again where are people getting placed for jobs for next year within the building I don't know the result of that so that's what this training is about for supporting people to do that if they're handed a contract to do PARA and they decide they might want to do that they can or they can stay in a PARA after their training so that's the how the training got to be where it is we're in that implementation it's bumpy I'm not going to say it isn't we'd like to have everything figured out we're trying to build this and fly it at the same time right now we have about 10 to 12 outside contracted positions coming in for BI's and behavior supports CSU they have some in this building you know and so that's what we've put together our first training pretty quickly so people could access it one of it was because U32 they have an extra day because they had it because you know Chris because you were the executive U32 had to cut a student day just to try to get everything to end so there was a way of like hey the two days that PARAs are contracted they could take this training it's not the only time it's the first time we're going to do the training we really foresee that we're going to do it in August again and we're probably going to have to do it a couple times a year and keep it going it's going to be one of those things that just happens for folks that want to do it what is the implementation of the implementation is of having the training for those who would like to do it because if we can't get enough BI's and PCAs out of folks that are here that want to do that work we're going to have to go out and continue our contract with the outside which it's moderately successful at best it's not great what are the different qualifications that between what a parent has now there are some additional qualifications so I can't tell you everything because some of those I can tell you some of them but then it's going to get down to IEP specific because the IEP determines sometimes what the training is that the person needs to have you need to have a greater for a behavior intervention so you have to have you have to be trained in de-escalation skills so that's verbal and then you get trained and handled with care which are restrained behavior and you get trained you have some decision making protocols that there isn't a need for there's one item there are some of those that it's usually looking for someone with a bachelor's degree not necessarily but that's the level person that's what Washington County mental health requires that someone with a bachelor's degree to work for them and for the personal care attendant it's a lot more specialized because it's care personal care for a child which could be anything from feeding to bathroom supports so is currently now in our schools who are the individuals responsible for potential restraint if it comes to that it's either the behavior interventionist your behavior support person here the principal I used to be trained by a law school a year ago I've done it in these schools or it's contracted or it's contracted are they contracted for now the BIs are that's what we're trying to bring in house is there any if the parent just didn't want to go through the training that parent's job would not be in jeopardy would it I can't say that Chris that's what people want me to say and I can't say that because the student need may change so if the parent is already has a contract now they'll do those contracts are all of them tied to a particular student or are some of them tied to a particular student all of them are tied to IEPs IEPs so the services is the services change in the IEPs because you can still have those same kids but the services can change that's why I'm trying to be pretty precise here if an IEP team increases or decreases services that can change what the student need is so there was a situation that we talked about not too long ago where there might be a need to change and this could be a way for the to maintain continuity of services can I just give a little bit more for folks that may not I know what you're trying to do but I think that can help you with this there was a need to change and this happens for some kids sometimes they change from being with a para a behavior interventionist not tying to any yet and so that does happen, that's happened before with kids and that may be a way to keep continuity or at least keep the staff in the building if there's someone that's training a behavior interventionist because it may be, I don't want to say that it is because you've got to get down to the individual case but what's the Medicare reimbursement on a BI that's a para that a BI that is within the school district I don't have that rate off the top of my head am I wrong when I'm remembering that no you're right that there's money for reimbursements for the Washington County Mental Health or for our own that we hire we can do reimbursement ourselves and who pays for the handle of care training we do we have in-house trainers for that we have two people, Michael Sherwin and I'm glad you said that because that reminded me that Matt he's one of our trainers Chris Malone is now a trainer good so Chris and oh and Eric Bennett at U32 is a trainer as well are there concerns then Jordan just well everything that Bill said is that on face is absolutely true and I don't think anybody would contest it I think the other side of the coin that maybe isn't being addressed is more philosophical and I'm not sure that you know I don't know if that's where we need to go with this or what it is but I think one thing that you didn't mention that from Kelly's letter I think you should if you read Kelly's letter I think that way to provide context I'm not certain as to why this is on para training staffing and why this is on the agenda however in order to inform your discussion without being present I thought I should have some pieces of information please see the attached FAQ document as it was shared with all the para and education staff across the district related to this issue so it's a two pager looks like this and Kelly's had other emails out to staff otherwise Superintendent Kimble Superintendent Kimble and I we have some pairs from Romney this afternoon he answers specific questions this was a plan early last week about this I also met with the special educators at Romney to begin looking at para assignments for next year all pairs have been informed of what their assignments will be given what we currently know about their student population as you know things may change over the summer as we never know which students will remain with us and who might move in based on the information we have today the special educators and I will let folks know what their assignments look like I didn't know that one that wasn't the one I was talking about I had to pull it up I'm glad to do it well I just I think it started with something about best practices and that's kind of where my philosophical differences based on best practices it is assumed that every child should be taught by the most qualified teacher which on the surface who could argue with that it sounds perfectly reasonable but as a para an instructional para for 15 years where I take exception to that is the assumption is that where do you get best practices if you're going to any organization that's going to come up with best practices you have to base it on something so I believe I'm not sure, you can correct me I believe that best practices comes from a combination of the Levenson report and the UVM study which is where the legislature has also legislated on and those two studies if you say if you look at those two studies and you accept them as yes this is the best educational practice then that's what that says that doesn't mean that it is true in any sense of the word it's just their view on it and it is not a view that I share so I don't think that that's the only way to deliver quality services and I also have for many years wondered about all of us pairs have wondered if the pairs in our building are different from other pairs and I just have to think that they are if that's what they think I mean we have really highly educated highly trained, really well supervised pairs and I would stake my record of teaching the children of my town to read I would put my record against anybody's record I'm a really good reading teacher I'm a really good reading teacher and so and I cost a lot less than a classroom teacher so I don't know that necessarily that that's the because of best practices we need to shift our model if that's what we're doing and I have to accept this because this is what's been told to us that is what we're doing as a district but philosophically they don't agree with it I did want to just say that one thing and this is just my personal take I got my contract for next year it's fine everything is fine anything Phil has said but I just think they're like behind the curtain there's just more to it philosophically and where we're going to go as a district after this coming school year is the question So is there any sense that this training is something of a Trojan horse that will then I think there is and nobody tried to characterize it as anything other than that nobody can tell us of course they don't know we never know from year to year cool kids are going to be in here what means there are but if there's also a philosophy that para shouldn't be doing education or to me that does feel a little Trojan horses I don't know I don't think anything that they said was disingenuous in any way they were very transparent was very informative but personally I still feel that as a district the direction we're going under value is what I've done for 15 years and that's a very fair statement we've had that conversation at the labor management and that's a really fair point to say it's some easy good decisions to make how many of our para educators are like certified in Wilson or in Gillingham any other certification that you need I'd have to go from across the issue how many teachers are again I don't have that right here that I feel like would be helpful information to look at at some point not now forward in this direction that would be information that I would be interested in knowing based on what you're saying is someone new to the conversation just to clarify are these trainings is that something that we're offering free to the staff and hand for their days an additional education that this becomes more of the position and less instruction the original letter from Kelly to us made that part clear I just remember the beginning of something like best practices stating that this is the way we should go this is going to be kind of a new way for you to have job security which is great for them to be thinking about it and bringing in house that's actually very respectful in many ways I don't want this to be adversarial at all I really do feel like that being the reality we do farm out a lot of these things and these people turn over like left right and center it would be much better for kids to have people in house that are VI's and if that's what they want to do many of the staff was hired to do instruction a couple of the staff were hired in one type of work we've all done more and more over the years as the model has changed but you know what this whole conversation is leading out is the direction what is the intentional direction what do they see three years out five years out and I guess I'm under the impression that fewer and fewer and fewer parents doing anything except those things that's kind of Jordan, are you referring to what we reported in email like how they get consent about what starts out you may have heard about about the change in contract options that one I know the first paragraph says something about best practices is one of her hello all you may have heard about the change in contract options added in the recent negotiated agreement going forward there are two positions in the contract behavior interventionist and personal care attendant these positions require a high level of training and increased job qualifications they will also be coming with a 10% increase in the paraplegia the hope and tension in WCSU next year is to have a POD and a BI as a support and oversight from the Washington Medical Health Board to provide behavior analysts and case manager at least eight and a half and it goes into training and whatnot is that what you're referring to I think there's still another one I got that as well do you know is there another letter I just saw that so are there only two positions in the contract these are additional these are new recognized positions because they weren't before because we're trying to bring we're trying to put the people on staff I mean it's amazing the amount of money we you know we're constantly trying to do more with less finishing job is the need for the VI and the PCA increase because of bringing students who are here to see not in the supervise we need no we have increased need coming up what's happening in our society is affecting our schools that's all I can say Phil do you know because I assume that since these are tied to IEPs are these considered one-on-one support type of related positions or would these be they're usually one-on-one and would so is it possible that moving forward that the only students that will qualify for that level of support would be students that have in their IEP a VI or PCA required I can't say that because I'd be conditioning future IEP team meetings and the team is the only one that can be determined support needed for a child so you as a board can't even do that make yourself liable for a counter super parent I guess what I'm asking is that they're going to be as a policy I can't know there will not be a policy or a procedure or a practice on this that would be putting at risk the educational institution we will do what is required that comes out of the IEP team I have to be that direct and that direct and that's because it's the folks that have the right to determine what the supports are not how they're delivered but what they are is the IEP team and they are legally by federal law given that right no one else's 50% of that team is the parents or whatever 25 whatever they're there but you need to come to agreement because no matter how many people in the room 50% I would agree with that any other kind of move on I appreciate Joanne's thoughts actually this Levenson report keeps resurfacing over and over and over and I actually think that the UVM study and the Levenson report have some really nice things to say but to me the big disconnect that nobody ever seems to address or I feel like it's not addressed is that we keep talking about these really excellent teachers who are super qualified and the fact of the matter is that they actually have no as far as I can tell like you say some of our parents maybe they may fall into that category and just because they have the name para in front of educator doesn't mean that they are not also really excellent teachers so it would be nice if somehow we could sort of bridge that gap between thinking that you have to have letters behind your name to be good at your job so maybe that would be an efficiency model that we have for our students with our teachers so I would ask you to go to the state to the state licensure board because it would be the only ones that have control of that to change our licensing requirements in the state of Vermont because I am bound by your superintendent and your next superintendent will be as well as every license educator that we have to meet licensing requirements to be able to qualify for certain job requirements it's not one that I'm saying I'm behind I'm just saying those are the rules of the game right now so if you're going to point to saying that we can't call parents teachers I can't I'm not saying you can but what I'm saying is that if we're talking about proficiency based education for our students same type of analysis should probably apply to our staff because sometimes people with a lot of letters behind their names are not as good in proficiency as others and so going to the skill as opposed to the I would agree I would love to have that system Chris I can't implement that under the current regulation in the state Chris just hear me again there's no I as a superintendent sign off every year that I ensure that everybody in a teacher position is properly licensed and endorsed if the state comes back I get findings on my license for that I'm not suggesting that you qualify a parent as saying that they're a teacher but if they're able to deliver the same or better services as a teacher having them deliver a parent even maintaining the title as a parent delivering the service is what I'm talking about not saying that oh all of a sudden parent is a teacher because I but there can be a philosophical difference of saying you know a parent will never be as good as a teacher that's not what I'm saying but I'm saying I feel like you're asking me to bend the law which I do I do Chris I'm sorry I don't think I'm doing that because if there are instructional powers now well that's not a thing I made that up you're an educator I'll say parent educator right now there are people doing all kinds of jobs but I've often thought that there should be there's like the BI and the PCA that there should be instructional power but that seems to be going by the wayside but anyway where it could make a difference Chris if you're looking I feel like you're looking for a way to like let's make this let's codify this in some way let's make it better it all comes down to the IEPs right now many IEPs say the student will see a special educator X number of half hours a week and another service with a parent educator X number of times that is where the rubber meets the road if it says a special educator it has to be if it says a parent it could be the parent educator or a special educator you can go up but you can't go down so what would have to happen is there would have to be a commitment to saying what do we see as the best delivery model hold on there you can't say because you're going to condition the IEP team I'm saying the IEP team has been influenced to stop doing that I believe the IEP team has been I'm going to use the word direct in but it's probably wrong I don't know I don't know I think I don't know that but for all these years it has said some services are by parents and some services are by special educators I don't know how they could suddenly disappear unless they don't write them in anymore you know like where are all those instructional things going when you say there's going to be a new main Kelly side today there's going to be a new delivery model maybe what they mean is it might say parent or special educator and they're making a choice to trade up and say those services are no longer going to be done by parents oh it says it could be done by a parent they're going to be done by a special educator and they could certainly do that legally and not change anything I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that's what they're saying that they want to do that might be that's a delivery model they might totally be doing that I'm not saying anybody is doing anything from the fairies and I'm not part of the team so I don't know but that's the place where parents if you have qualified instructional parents that will be the place and if philosophically as a district then an IEP team could be empowered to do that and they could continue to do that they are empowered they are empowered to do that then why are all the instructional positions suddenly disappearing I guess is my question they're empowered to do that when they're in best where those decisions are going to be then why then why does it seem that so many formally instructional care of slots are no longer there is it just that kids that haven't come through don't have them anymore I mean I know a lot of you Bill I certainly hear your concern about conditioning the team and what kind of rules it's like I have to say this more they can't say that either they individually or collectively and I'm wondering kind of what the actual guidelines and definitions are around that in part because conditioning for credentialism is of course something that kind of spans society right now right now speaking of these letters behind your name there's this kind of expectation that if you have in the technology industry if you have a certain set of letters after you name that it means a particular thing and I wonder if rather than having kind of been explicit to them not directing them in any direction it's just kind of a natural tendency to believe that the letters mean qualification just like the job listing that says you know bachelor's degree required when a lot of times these jobs don't actually require a bachelor's degree it's just like shorthand for weeding out people right and and whether there's something to be explicit that doesn't say you should hire you know instructional parents just be aware of the fact that you when they're available to you that is still an option right like which all the principals know that those are part of their when they should know those are pieces that they can they can that's part of the it's part of the decision that happens at IEP team I can't go anywhere else in a public this I can't go in I will condition the meeting whether it's private public whatever I can condition the meeting so all I have to say is the IEP team is the one who makes this decision because I will be putting as the head of the organization putting us at risk if I say much else just time to put a time limit on this discussion so okay thank you for that so next up any talk would you like us to recognize you and the time that you spent here in terms of do you have anything in mind like community breakfast staff breakfast anything you have to do or should we just devise something exotic answered what did you say I think something is already being organized believe I think team Josson has had something up so I would suggest that you talk with her then we fully support that the sense of the board to contribute to that and whatever we can add into it not much is necessary you are welcome thank you for helping so let's thank you very publicly for you came into a very difficult school and communal environment and I think the new school community is in a much better place having had your influence and so thank you very much thank you next up we have Casey do we want to have a community meeting meet and greet for Casey sometime this week or the week after so he starts to there's some days that Amy and he are crossing for here and then he'll be here from July first on as the principal do we want to do alongside with when he starts what would you do with the next school year I would suggest I remember Amy doing an ice cream social in August I think that would be the best to be here and we did it last year I mean you kept the tradition going so I would just give you a point of that Amy's been really great at working with Casey already and Sam sometimes to come and see the staff and service and pieces like that so thank you very much for doing that and and I know that Janet Kelly and I had a conversation this morning about supports from central office for instance the superintendent transitions happening Kelly's going to work with one principal and Jen will work with them they have some interest in it are there other mentors or support yeah I've been in contact with a lot of principal associations being mentor going and then the transition team on this agenda was the concept of some members of the current Romney staff and faculty community and we'd be able to be a support team for Casey at C transitions into the position this was just mentioned indirectly I guess directly to me by several people who said that it would be great to be able to communicate with Casey like a special educator a teacher on para slash someone in that support role someone from the allied arts program about just helping pave a transition into the school and offering like that kind of support as opposed to walking into the job with transition team only being offered by say the central office and all of Amy's supports are really insightful and also the folks who work in the building must have been part of that transition but I don't have a vision for it so I would say that Amy did this with a team that was here she got really excited with the team I think Casey coming those three days naturally happened to make that and I like the idea so I'm just thinking naturally they'll add from some of that more those three days it's scheduled for a half day that's going to be kind of loose meet and greet and then I have a meeting with the team in the building on the 12th maybe that's the concept that was raised was an opportunity for representation from people who work here to be able to connect early and build that relationship to be constant what if we could if there's a volunteer to serve on that team but not just for an initial but over time just to figure out kind of nice that people have been in the building by say what's the culture how does it work not that you have to be bound by the culture but at least getting a sense of how things run just to have insight from folks in the trenches and not ignoring it it was brought up at a staff meeting while we were creating the schedule we had many teachers and special educators and allied art teachers that it would be really helpful and we kind of collectively talked that people that would be willing to meet a couple times over the summer and a good handful of us said that we'd be willing to do that maybe two or three times over the summer and then like you had said Chris continuing into the school year to help that transition many staff members interested in that to meet over the summer and I think that's kind of the model you were trying to say Katie do you think that would come better from the staff figuring that out or yeah I think we I think people that brought it up to the board members just wanted to know if we had to go through the board to get something like that approved or if we could collectively do it at a staff meeting who's available in the summer and who would like to be on a team of that kind I would also like just recommend that maybe consider let him get through the 12th where he gets a chance to have seen the public action yeah yeah and meet with people and then decide what he needs as far as I just feel like Casey needs a voice to be Casey and I think it's great that people want to pitch in and all that but I just want him to have the opportunity to like think about what's going to work in his leadership style these are the 12th did you say that we get through the 12th yeah he's coming home I mean he swaps in days any minor I've talked to the superintendent we both agree that's swapping some days if he's being back over there does that make sense I don't think he needs the board okay to be a shout-out to him as a staff thank you that's coming from the closest okay thank you okay so that's next up is Winter Wellness Program do you have an open tele on this too and then Amy's done some work on this Amy, would you like to hear from Amy? the vibe no Winter Wellness was not under threat to be clear we had shuffled some grant money to be able to move social and emotional learning curriculum forward and as the fairly small money commitment and very steeped in tradition I voted for it because I knew we could find the 3500 so I've already made connections with Lori Bebo to make sure that that money is earmarked or within our budget for next year I've also connected with Casey that's his pot of money and he's in full support of continuing the program also so we're certain then that the concern that was raised was that the money that was dedicated to Winter Wellness was accepted to another source and I think from our experience with the budget the budget was down to the wire so it was unclear that there was going to be 3500 dollars and this is the way the budgets go we get more and more sure every day it gets closer but it's certain that there is 3500 dollars for Winter Wellness that will not be an issue so the answer is yes yes I can't speak past next year but I can't imagine that program going away and I mean honestly there's that amount of fat that we could find to make it continue so should I retell this piece into this Winter Wellness I'm not certain why this is on the agenda but the change in funding source for this program I oversee the EPSDT which is the health and wellness grant that has funded Winter Wellness programs across all our schools while I oversee these funds there's a group of folks representing all schools in Washington Central along with someone from the Department of Health they get together every spring to talk about the purpose of this grant and how to go about spending the money this usually involves the school nurses, counselors, principals, etc during the meeting I had this spring the group of folks that attended and agreed to bring the idea of purchasing a social emotional learning program for these funds to the leadership team upon doing this the entire leadership team was in support of using this funding source to move forward in the SEL program for the entire Washington Central Learning community therefore there is therefore there is a committee that will be working together throughout next school year which is there's an SEL committee that's looking at programs representative of grade levels and cross buildings all that through High School Precature as well Winter Wellness program may continue but through the support of the school budgets the cost of this varies by school depending on the scope of the activities that each school chooses to participate in and you know that I remember that meeting because it was just two weeks ago the principal for it was quick, he was like we'll find it we'll find it in the budget somehow and he thought it was going well but we need a social emotional learning curriculum so my understanding is that they went to on this program that committee is committed to thank you thank you so that is the last item just out of curiosity was it raised as if it was being cut? that's how I learned that the funding for Winter Wellness had been moved to another source and that there was uncertain funding and so I emailed Amy and she got back to me today no I also got back to you well no but you got back to me today and said you talked to Lori Bebo and said well it took me some time to get up with Casey that wasn't any judgment on timing it was just a statement of that you had said that today I learned that there was funding but prior to that the question was in my mind and the question that was raised was is Winter Wellness going to happen because the funding had been reallocated but I spoke to that on Friday I said that I felt like the funds were there and then I shorted up to make sure that as we have the transition that Casey is well aware of the importance of it and I want to make sure that that was never the intention and I just want to publicly say that that was never the intention and the reallocation and $3,500 just to clarify is how much money is cost to do Winter Wellness as we have done it and it hasn't gotten shorter over the years because I feel like there has been some decisions around that from classroom teachers we've also run into glitches with just weather operating with us because in the past we've had six weeks and then we had four weeks but then because of snow days the kids really only went three does every school in our supervisor even do Winter Wellness in some form or fashion is there a difference in the cost so this may continue but it actually may be a problem I would say this is one of the places where you could say things are not very equitable across the elementary schools and you're not at one extreme or the other as of my knowledge the middle without going to do a financial analysis and a program analysis but from what I know of it sitting here at the table you're about the middle he's going to bail every year you're on the public right now it's time to talk about this board Brian is a sugar rush I can't be civil after it shouldn't be civil okay so in force to the board any education goals is that something you know I don't think we have anything on that is there anything I don't have anything on that thank you very much I wrote the transition it was just listed twice oh so that was transition team from Casey that was not the transition from me into the WCAS district maybe I'm a supporter of that you know it's more of how do you want to wind down we'll put that on that can we could I get feedback from Casey or like some sort of statement as far as what he's thinking would work after having talked to people would that be transition purposes can I say one thing really quick the garden and I just really want to thank Talitha for what she has provided to the garden and then what she accomplished over the course of like the past three weeks maybe month so she set up a little fun me for many aspects of the garden and if you look out there in the rain today you'll see a beautiful new day Theresa's goal of $600 was her goal and she succeeded that goal so I just want to thank her and I hope that someday we continue to have our garden coordinator because I think it's so important and the kids get to benefit from that so I'm not good I just want to say it's really awesome and just shows dedication to our community we pull that off like a small amount of time 100% thanks very much we recognize you any reports from the we're shooting for the 17th 17th is when we were shooting for okay so it looks like so we'll get the financial report okay we'll get everything it looks like our action agenda is done unless there's resignations and hires that we're not aware of so any of the forward business any comments from Amy, Bill audience members thanks for sticking it out okay 8 o'clock okay well we will adjourn and we'll stick it out oh yeah it's all gate press no no we need a motion I move to approve forward orders in the amount of $60,597.80 second one favor please sign yeah please don't walk away though 2-1-2-3 come on can't believe this is this is an issue