 Hi, welcome to another episode of Recover Loud. I'm your host, Mike Paddleford, and I Recover Loud. Let's go! I'm on a journey to discover the truth Living life and recovery is lovely You got the power in you Surround yourself with positive energy Judges hitting people with provocative penalties Need to make a change Advocate and change the laws To people that it's not insane When you stand behind the cars I'm here to speak about the pain Recover loud to normalize the disease That's been killing all my friends And my family, the time is now To let it all go and recover loud The benefit is healthy people Family and friends that never have to overdose Ever again, never have to plead out To a lesser defense I'm proud to say that I recover loud I never thought I could But I'm so proud that I discovered how To live my life again Controlling my own destiny I needed recovery I still needed desperately Addiction never defined mine I recover loud here to tell my own story I recover proud, save a life of like 40 I recover loud, yeah I recover loud I recover loud, yeah I recover loud I recover loud here to tell my own story I recover proud, save a life of like 40 I recover loud, yeah I recover loud I recover loud, yeah I recover loud I recover, I recover loud I recover, I recover loud, I recover, I recover loud I recover, I recover loud Hi, welcome to this episode of Recover Loud. Today's guest is Courtney DeBay from Press Galame. Courtney, welcome. Thanks for sharing your story with us. Can you tell us a little bit about what it was like for little Courtney growing up? It was okay until a little later, probably about 10. I had an abusive stepmom and my dad worked all the time. She did like my mother, so therefore my mom was not really around at that time. So that was interesting. Yeah. And was that physical abuse? Yeah. Yeah. And did you feel like your dad knew about it? Sometimes, but I also knew that he worked a lot and didn't really know the details, I guess, of that. And we were all too young to really tell him what was happening. Yeah. So at 10 years old, how did you deal with that? Well, I wanted my mom and she wasn't there. So that was hard. And when I was able to go to my mom's house, I didn't want to ever go home after. Yeah. But... So what was it like in school for you? Hard, although that was my escape from my reality at that time. Yeah. So they divorced and we moved to Ashland, my freshman year of high school. And I started high school there, and that's when it took a turn. That's when I experimented with alcohol and weed and pills. That was your freshman year? Yeah. Now, had you known anybody in Ashland at the time? Not really now. So what did it look like when you were using and drinking? Was it a small group of people? Were they the big school parties? Yeah, school parties on the weekends. I met a group of kids when I first moved up there. Got in a relationship with one of them, and it was like a party scene every weekend. And I was fun. Now, was that strictly alcohol and weed, or was that...? Yeah, but I was offered pills a few times and I took it and I liked it. Yeah. So, do you remember what that experienced? What was it doing for you? I didn't have to think about reality. Yeah. Yeah, everything that I had about two years up to that point. And, you know, starting a new school took all the anxieties away from that. So were you able to graduate from high school eventually? No, I did not. I dropped out three months before graduation. And what led to that? I was pregnant with my oldest son and ended up having complications with that. And I didn't go back. So, as your pregnancy progressed, did you continue using? Yes. And so what eventually happened with your first pregnancy? So I had him and my addiction after I had him is like when it really took off. It was more than just like the parties on the weekends. And I knew that I wasn't able to provide him a good life. So I brought him to my grandparents house and left him in the middle of the night and he was three months old. And how old were you then? I was just turned 18. You left him with your grandma? Yeah. Knowing that you would probably have a better chance? Yeah, to be safe. And what was your life like that you knew that that was a better option? Well, I was just partying all the time still. I knew that I had a problem that I couldn't get right over on my own. And dragging him here there and everywhere, you needed a better life and I knew that. It must be a very hard decision. Yeah. And people out there who have never experienced addiction probably can't grasp that concept. But we always say in recovery self-awareness and gives us the power to identify what's going on with us and do something about it. But when we're in addiction and we have that awareness that this is not going well and I need to do something. You know, it's just, it's not something everybody does. So thanks for sharing that as part of your story. So what happened after you went away and now you didn't have that responsibility? It got, it went a lot deeper than what it ever had been. And actually that's when I found heroin because I knew that I did something. I knew it was right to do what I did so he didn't have to live that life. But not knowing I guess why I had done that and the guilt from it. So there was still some shame and guilt? Right. Yeah. Knowing that I couldn't do it, it bled down when I died. Now see I actually have a similar experience with, I had three children and I never got, so I stayed high the entire time they were growing up. My daughter was 16 before I ever quit. But my middle son, when he was a freshman, we lived in Massachusetts. And we were moving back to Maine because in the previous three months I towed four vehicles. I couldn't work, I couldn't earn money, I couldn't survive in Massachusetts. So we had to come back to northern Maine. But my son was on the basketball team, on the football team. And he wanted to stay. So leaving him behind, I felt at the time he was at, at least he was going to be out of there, you know. And then what I later found out, you know, when my addiction turned and I couldn't afford to send money, when I stopped calling him all the time, when he stopped texting me back. You know, I didn't, he was like my little buddy growing up, you know. Yeah. Did you have any other children? Yeah. Four years later I had another boy. And then when he was three months old I was already pregnant with another child. And so they were really close in age. Yeah. So what ended up happening with your other two children? Well, I was a functioning addict as, you know, we all kind of believed to be. Right. Until you're not anymore. And DHS stepped in and took them in 2018. And how old were the kids? Three or four. So do you feel like they remember life with you at that age before they? Yes. Yeah. And you said eventually the desire to be reunited is what led you to, to be reunited. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So what does that relationship look like today? It's good. It's very good. It's nothing that I would have pictured it entering rehab. Right. But yeah, it's good. I have them twice a week and every other weekend. And things are good. And you mentioned they're in foster care. Yes. And do you have a relationship with the foster care? Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. She is like my best friend. And for us it's not, it's never been like a fight. We do all holidays together. We do birthday parties together. We do, you know, the kids were just away on vacation. And, you know, we all, we hung out and went shopping enough to eat. Yeah. We don't choose to go to rehab when things are going well for us. Right. We're seemingly going well. Yeah. So what was going on in your life at that time that made you decide finally to get some help? After losing my two youngest, at first it was very, like I knew that they were going to leave and it wasn't really a problem until it really hit me. And instead of using every day to fill the like physical dependence that we all, you know, that I had on it, it was like using to die. Like just hopes that one of those times it would be the end. Yeah. Did you ever try to commit suicide? Using yes and was not successful. Yeah. And, you know, it was the same way for me. I didn't want to kill myself. Right. I didn't want to die. But I didn't feel like life was worth living. Yeah. Just want the pain to go away. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, however, you know, I accepted I was going to die as a hero, as a heroin addict. Yeah. And I knew that that would probably take me. Yeah. And every day I waited. But, you know, I wouldn't have, you know, taken a gun to my head. Right. But I really wished it would just happen. Yeah. You know. That's where I was. Yeah. And had you had any overdoses? No. Not up to that. Up to that point now. I can understand, you know, once your kids were taken away, you didn't want to live anymore. Yeah. And you just use as much as it would take to feel better, numb out or probably as much as you could afford. Yeah. And just being where we are today, that was never, I never seen that. So that's enough. Yeah. And, you know, it's funny that we always think we know what we want and what it's going to look like when we get it. Right. You know. And then a lot of times we realize we've got what we want. It just doesn't look the same. Right. Yeah. And so that relationship with your kids, it's not exactly the way you pictured it. Exactly. It's not the end goal. Exactly. But for now it's something. Right. I'm glad you get that opportunity. Yeah. And that, you know, you're using that. You know, today it's almost five years in. And it took a while. But he called us. It was a year and a half ago now. He came back from Japan after being over there six months. He ended up meeting a girl online, got out, moved in with him. And they got married. And he's like, I'm done being mad at you guys. I want you to meet my wife. I want you to be part of our lives. And I was like, really? He's like, yeah, I see you're doing well. Yeah. And that's what I tell parents today. It's like, you know, don't think that, you know, DHS has got this pile of shit that you need to do. Yeah. And you're never going to get it done. Yeah. Don't worry about that. Yeah. You've got a pile of shit that you need to do. Yeah. Yeah. Keep doing that. Yeah. And then either they're going to see it and allow you your kids, or later on, your kids are going to be like, Exactly. Yeah. They're just doing good. Exactly. You know? And they're going to want to reach out. Yeah. A position are you going to be in when they do. You might not get him back, but maybe he'll come back when he's old enough. Right. You know, you might not raise him, but you might have him in your life when he's 18. You know? But you know, it's just, somebody says something and you're like, yeah, let's do it. Yeah. And I've done a lot of things I'm not happy about. But there's nothing that I'm ashamed of still today though. Yeah. Because I did what we did. Yeah. You can't take it back. No. And if you live without shame, there's never any growing or healing from that either. Right. Yeah. And I mean, that's where the growth comes from. Yeah. When we can look at ourselves, talk about it, share it with other people, and it doesn't make us cry. Right. It doesn't make us hate ourselves. Yeah. It doesn't make us, you know, feel like we did that. Mm-hmm. And then we know we've grown a little bit. Yeah. Right. And I think it's important that we acknowledge it too. Yeah. You know? And all the time, it's those little things. Yeah. If you paused before you said what you were about to say and said it differently. Well, that's a long heartache in my life. You know, I had to learn how to accept myself for who I am. Yeah. I'm not in control, you know? I drove the car into the ditch every time I had the wheel. Yeah. You know? So learning that lesson and, you know, learning that I don't have to control the world. Right. You know, I don't have to decide what somebody else is doing or if they're doing it right. It's on them. Yeah. You know? Either they're going to get it or they're not. And, you know, I have no personal stake in that. Right. So letting that go and just worried about me knowing that I don't have to do everything right and perfect every time. Yeah. You know? And you had mentioned before that you weren't religious going into this world. Right. So what does it take for this program to really get in for you? Well, you're in Canada with Jesus, your first one. When I got there, I thought the people were crazy. I thought it was all crazy until I had my first interaction. And, you know, reading the Bible, I never understood a word that it was saying. Right. So it took a while for that too. But once you get it, there's no turning back. Right. And that's a lengthy program. Oh, yes. And you said you graduated. How long were you there? Twelve months. Twelve months. My program was a six to nine month program and I got kicked out after three months. And mine wasn't... Mine was a tough program. Milestone rehab in Old Orchard Beach, you know, up to 16 men living in one place together learning to live in harmony with 16 strangers, dealing with your triggers every day and not wanting to, you know, not being able to reach out for a substance. And you were able to grab on to the Bible and, you know, learn things about your life and about life in general. Is there anything that stands out to you that you've learned while you were there at the rehab? Yes. Okay. You have to actually pick one shortly after you get there. And actually I picked it and usually people will pick one and it changes as their sobriety and relationship with Jesus changes but mine kind of stayed the same still does. Yes. So as people grow they learn something new. Right. So what was the verse you chose? Second Corinthians 12-9, my grace is all you need, my power works best in weakness. Can you explain what that means for you? For me, well, when I had to pick it out in the beginning, it was like, you know, when we are weak, he is strong and then I have just kind of carried that with me the whole time because not every day is easy. No. You know, we think we get sober and life is just going to be okay and it's not, but it's still the same today as it was three and a half years ago. Yeah. And the only difference is we're not reaching for something to get away from it. Right. We have to go through it. We have to feel it. Right. And I don't know about you, but you know, I did these things so I wouldn't have to feel. Right. You know, so not having that option or not choosing to go that route now, you know, sometimes can be, it can make life seem heavy. Yeah. You know, and you know, I do believe in Jesus and God and it took me a while. I didn't want to go that route. You know, when I went to rehab and started going into the 12 step programs and they started talking about a higher power, I thought I was doomed. Yeah. Because I would never accept it. Yeah. And then I walked on the beach down at Old Orchard, standing there watching the waves come in and you know, they were getting closer and closer to my feet and I was just noticing how big the world actually is. Yeah. You know, compared to the view that I had before I went to rehab, you know, sitting in my room, looking through the crack in the blinds into the woods, you know, everything seemed so small and you know, closed in and here I was just looking out and I mean, I could see forever, I see. You know, so that it came over me and I ended up dropping to my knees in the water in November and I started to cry and I didn't know how to pray. I'd never done that. But I knew that I was grateful for being alive, that I had never harmed my kids in a way or my family and that they were still on this earth and that I had never, you know, done anything too horrible, you know, but I knew that it wasn't my doing. Right. You know, because I did everything possible to take all that away. Yeah. And you know, so, you know, just giving some credit, you know, to where the credit was due in that moment, you know, that's what I felt. And you know, there was a changing moment for me in my recovery. I was able to start accepting things. I was able to start putting things down that weren't mine to carry, you know, and not feeling all that pressure, you know. So when you got out, you said not everything's perfect. Right. What do you do to handle stress today? Well, I still go to church on Sundays and I still read my Bible, you know, there it's very structured in here and I've kind of carried that with me two and a half years since leaving there. Yeah, and that's another point too, you know, when it's structured and we have to do things this way, you know, but characters shown when we do things when nobody else is looking. Right. You know, and taking care of ourselves knowing that we have these problems and that we have a solution that we can turn to, you know. So what's next for you? What are your plans for the future? Well, hopefully one day sooner than later I will be working with people in recovery. That is ultimately the goal. If I could give any advice to the person still struggling today, it would be that you are not your current situation. You are not the things that you've done. There is a God who loves you and will set you free. All you have to do is surrender. Well, thanks for sharing all that with us. This season of Recover Loud is presented by Recovery on the Road, a Facebook group providing recovery support and resources to anyone, anywhere and anytime throughout the day. If you or someone you know is struggling, please connect to Recovery on the Road on Facebook. Recovery on the Road has been offering in-person meetings here at 46 Sweden Street in Caribou. If you're in the area, please stop by, grab a calendar, and come attend one of the meetings. We believe that connection is the opposite of addiction. Recover Loud, everyone. Let's go! I'm on a journey to discover the truth. Living life in recovery is lovely. You got the power in you. Surround yourself with positive energy. Judges hitting people with provocative penalties. Need to make a change. Advocate and change the laws. To people that it's not insane. When you stand behind the cars, I'm here to speak about the pain. Recover Loud to normalize the disease. That's been killing all my friends and my family. The time is now to let it all go. Recover Loud to benefit its healthy people. Family and friends that never have to overdose. Ever again, never have to plead out to a lesser defense. I'm proud to say that I recover loud. I never thought I could, but I'm so proud that I discovered how to live my life again. Controlling my own destiny. I needed recovery. I still needed desperately. Addiction never defined my identity. Recover Loud here to tell my own story. I recover proud, save a life of like 40. I recover loud, yeah. I recover loud. I recover loud, yeah. I recover loud. I recover loud here to tell my own story. I recover proud, save a life of like 40. I recover loud, yeah. I recover loud. I recover loud, yeah. I recover loud. I recover, I recover loud. Hi, I'm Mike Paddleford, the host of Recover Loud. I'm sitting here with my friend Marshall Mercer. Together, we've recently started a new show called Crying Out Loud. Marshall Mercer, I'm an organizer, I'm an activist, I'm an advocate, owner of my own company, CSK Services, Recovery Services, I'm exactly the director of Hope Rovers Incorporated. But six years ago, I was in prison. Ten years before that, I was addicted to needles. So before that, I was in crime. I was a dealer. I was a gang member. I was all these other things that nobody knew of me to be today. So Marshall, tell us a little bit about what this new show is going to be about. So this show is going to be about, it's going to be about a place where the people who are unhoused can come speak to if how is the truth. It's going to be a place for the marginalized community to come together and be themselves and be able to tell us what's going on with them, give us the needs that they need so we can help them. More along the line, if we can always come to find out, if we listen to our people, they will have the solutions right there with them. Yeah, because everyone has ideas of who they believe is out there on the street, who is out there struggling, and why. When we get to talk to people regardless of where they are in their journey and who they are, we get to know the people behind the images. We can drive up and down the street. We're shooting the show in Augusta. Yes. We're going to be focusing on people who are struggling here in Augusta. And we see it. Drive down the street, you see it. We can assume anything we want about those people, but it doesn't do that many good. Learning who they are, finding out why they're there, finding out what it's going to take to bring them up out of that, and who knows better than the people who are in it. And that's the thing too. A lot of times, it's not because they're using drugs. It's not because we're out here doing crime or because we did something out of ass lives or anything. Some of us may have lost our jobs, or may have gotten a car accident, got hurt, injured somehow, lost their wives. I mean, XYZ, mental health, it's not always black away. There's normal people on the show that come on the show that's going to make each and every one of you think about who these people are. Think about who you are. Biases. I know I have many of biases. I can come out here and I can choose to love or choose to bring my anger or choose to do any of the things. But when we choose just to love, man, every time, I mean, when you get to know each and every one of these individuals, you get to know the names, you get to know who they are as a human. And we don't think people are housed or drug addicts or any of the names that we want to give people that we're messing with. I spent a time without a home living in my car. And my daughter used to call me every night, she was worried, and she's like, dad, you're homeless. And I said, no, I'm without an address. At the moment, I didn't have an address. I knew that was something that gave me a goal. I could work towards getting an address. So just identifying that and not putting that negative spin on everything. We can help the people out there today. And they can help us by letting us know what they need. Absolutely. I like to believe us with this. Unhoused people deserve to live through. Absolutely.