 The hearing of the Vermont House Committee on Commerce and Economic Development and on Government Operations. We want to welcome you here to our hearing. The purpose of the hearing is to understand from the public on how COVID affected the unemployment system in the state of Vermont. We understand that there were many issues during last year and continue on to this year, but we actually receive a lot more information from the public when we hold these hearings, and so we're hoping to get more information so that we can analyze it and determine whether or not we need to make further changes within our unemployment system. So with that, I will introduce myself and my committee to you. So my name is Michael Marcotte. I'm a state representative from Coventry and chair of House Commerce and Economic Development, and then I will ask my vice chair to introduce himself. Hi, thank you. My name is Charlie Kimball. I'm the vice chair of the committee, and I'm a representative from Woodstock, Reading and Plymouth. And now the ranking member. Good evening. My name is Stephanie Jerome, and I represent the towns of Brandon, Pittsburgh, and Sudbury. Representative Dickinson, and you're muted. Sorry about that. Yes, my name is Lynn Dickinson. I represent St. Olden's Town. Representative Kitzmiller. Hi, I am Representative Warren Kitzmiller, and I represent Montpelier. Representative Martin. Hello, Representative Paul Martin, representing the towns of Highgate, Franklin, Berkshire, and Richford. Representative Mulvaney-Stanik. Thank you. Good evening, everyone. My name is Emma Mulvaney-Stanik, and I represent Burlington's west side of the Old North End and the southern portion of the New North End. Representative Nigro. Hi, my name is Michael Nigro. I represent the town of Bennington. Representative White. Hi, I'm Kirk White. I represent the towns of Bethel, Rochester, Stockbridge, and Pittsfield. And unable to be with us this evening, Representative Nicole and Representative Seymour. Now I will turn it over to Representative Copeland Hanses, the chair of government operations. Hello, folks, and thank you for being with us tonight. I'm Representative Sarah Copeland Hanses from Bradford, and I chair the House Government Operations Committee. I'm joined here tonight by, I think, most, if not all, of my committee mates, and so I'll go first to Representative Gannon. Thank you, and good evening. John Gannon, I represent three towns in southern Vermont, Halifax, Whitingham, and Wilmington. I'm vice chair of government operations. And our ranking member, Representative LeClaire. Good evening. My name is Rob LeClaire, and I represent Berry Town. I'm the junior member. And Representative Merwicky. Thank you, Madam Chair. This is Mike Merwicky, in the state rep from the Wyndham-Ford District of Putney, Dumberston, and Westminster. Representative Colston. Good evening. My name is Hal Colston. I represent Winooski and a small part of Burlington. Representative McCarthy. I am Representative Mike McCarthy. I represent St. Albans City in the southern chunk of St. Albans Town, and I also serve as the assistant majority leader. And Representative Higley. I am Representative Mark Higley from Lowell. I represent Lowell J. Westfield, Troy, and the town of Eden. Representative Bihovsky. Representative Tonya Bihovsky. I represent Essex Town. Representative Anthony. Good evening. My name is Peter Anthony. I represent Berry City together with one other seatmate, and I'm eager to hear your stories. Thank you. Representative Lefebvre. Good evening. Thank you for being here. I'm Samantha Lefebvre from the town of Orange. I represent Chelsea, Corinth, Orange, Berchere, Washington, and Williamstown with one other district mate. And last, but not least, hailing from the Queen City Representative Hooper. Good evening. I'm Bob Hooper. I represent Chittinette 6-1, which is the north end of the north end of North Burlington. Welcome. Welcome to folks who are here with us tonight, as you can all see in the webinar participants chat. There's a long list of folks who are here, but we're also checking to see if everyone is actually in attendance with us at the moment that we call them up to testify. And in case you weren't here for the lead up to this, we are doing this public hearing in a webinar format. This is something that we have learned how to do during COVID so that we can still safely hear from members of the general public about issues that are important to you. And so in this webinar format, you are all here as participants, and you'll see the assembled staff members and committee members here on the Zoom screen, and we will bring you in one by one so that you can have your two minutes to speak. You'll notice that there's a witness timer on the Zoom screen right now, and I would just welcome you when you are giving your remarks to keep an eye on that Zoom timer. I know it's kind of hard because you're going back and forth between prepared remarks and looking at the Zoom screen, but that Zoom timer will tell you when your two minutes is up, and you will get a gentle nudge also from Representative Markot, the chair of the Commerce and Economic Development Committee, just to let you know that it's time to try to finish the sentence that you're on and wrap up for the next witness to be able to come on. And so we are going to move right now to the list of folks who are with us, and so I am going to need to prompt the staff members who are helping behind the scenes in order to let us know whether people are actually here who are signed up first. So I have first on my list in front of me is Matt Willey, and I'd gotten a message that maybe Matt wasn't with us, but I just want to confirm that with staff. So what I will do is I will give who's up next, and I will read a list of who is on deck so that they can be ready to be brought up next. So the first two folks that I have on my list are Matt Willey, and second up are on deck is Brenda Siegel. So let me just see if those folks are here. Okay, so those folks are not yet here, so I think Tara Holt of St. John'sbury is the first witness that we have up on our list. And I'll just remind folks that when you are brought in from the attendee area to the panel to give your remarks, you'll come in unmuted and with your camera off, so if you can just be prepared to unmute and turn your camera on if you'd like us to be able to see you. So welcome to Tara, and I believe on deck is Kimberly Donahue from Bellows Falls, Waitesfield, sorry Kimberly, you're from Waitesfield. So do we have Tara Holt? Yes you do. Thank you for being with us tonight. My pleasure. I just want to situate things. I can't see the timer with all my other resources. Unfortunately, let me just scoot some things around. Okay, let's try to give you a verbal as well in case you can't keep an eye on the timer. Okay. Things I know it's a lot to juggle on a screen. So thank you for having me. This is my second time actually testifying for the legislature. I appreciate the opportunity. On March 24, 2020, I was furloughed from my job in New Hampshire due to the COVID-19 global pandemic. I worked that job 32 hours per week and it made up half of my family's weekly income. I continue work for Avermont non-profit 20 hours a week. When I was furloughed from my New Hampshire job, I opened an unemployment claim with the state of New Hampshire. I was awarded a weekly benefit amount from them based only on my New Hampshire income. That job had until 2020 been a seasonal job and I had switched in 2020 increasing from 20 to 32 hours at that job. Vermont was not reporting my wages to New Hampshire and never gave a reason why I have to go so much faster. Between March and August, I struggled to find out reasons. In August 2020, I was told that my Vermont job was an exempt non-profit and therefore wages that were earned there were not eligible to be counted when determining unemployment benefits. The problem that I have with that is the pages and pages of solutions that were created for workers who did lose their jobs, including the CARES Act and different assistances that were made for people who lost their job. My concern and my problem is that it appears that the legislation in the state of Vermont forgot to think about exempt non-profit workers. I'm here to tell you that exempt non-profit workers are no less valuable workers than anyone else. I was no less unemployed than most and more unemployed than many Vermonters who did receive benefits. At the end of the day, the Vermont unemployment rules seem like a mishmash of pre and post-pandemic rules created to prevent providing unemployment benefits rather than finding a solution. Thank you. Go ahead, Tara. You can just finish up. You seem like you're in the middle of a thought. Oh, I have page and page of thoughts. I will be submitting written testimony, but my concern is that we were forgotten about and rather than coming up with a solution, I think that instead what we're doing is hanging on to these mishmash of rules. I do have one more thing to say. I've been told by the state legislature that the reason that we can't use new federal dollars to fix this problem of the forgotten non-profit employees is because the state does not know how many employees are in my situation working for exempt non-profits and have been further told that we don't know how to find out such information and that didn't feel like anything that I could digest. Well, five months of unemployment while my children are home was terrifying. Anyway, I'll submit the written testimony rather than taking any more of your time. Thank you very much for holding this. Great. Thank you. Thank you for being with us tonight. We really appreciate it. Next up, I have Deborah Wright of Bellows Falls. And then after that is Lou Mulvaney-Stanak from Burlington. So let's bring Deborah up. And Deborah, do unmute yourself and say hello. Thank you. It popped me out and then came back in. My apologies. Okay, so my time is on. Okay, here we go. Thank you. Thank you for doing this tonight. As the Bellows Falls Village president and the owner of a small minority woman-owned construction industry business for the past 18 years, I come here today to tell you all that all of us are stuck between a rock and a very, very hard place. The business community and all its sectors have struggled desperately to survive this last year to do everything and anything to keep the doors open while keeping our employees safe and paid through the pandemic. We've been asked to reinvent ourselves to leap forward instead of going back to normal. But the financial struggle isn't over. Our breathing room has been a mere gasp and businesses cannot survive without employees. Yes, we all needed help during this emergency. Every single from Hunter funding was made possible. And I thank you all for that. My business received a helping hand through the PPP and idle programs. Small in comparison to many, but I use that money to pay my employees for eight weeks, 40 hours of wages to keep them and their families fed and housed for the first two months. No matter how few hours were available to work, I paid them a full week. Our main contractor, Green Mountain Power, also had to deal with COVID-19 as well. And they stopped doing utility work to regroup and redevelop the protocols needed to manage working in a pandemic environment. That was five weeks with no business income. Without their graces, I can't work my people. I raised my starting wage above the $15 targeted minimum included additional perks and benefits. It was and it continues to be a travesty finding applicants and it doesn't appear that it's going to get any better. As we begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel and new emergencies arising, businesses cannot attract employees. People are still being paid to stay home and that money may be as much or more than they previously earned from the employer. Why return to your former employer or even look for a new one? As long as the spigot remains open, this will continue. There is no impetus to return to the workforce. No drive to begin. Again, millions of former employees across the country are comfortably numb. Although I appreciate the effort, the recent effort of reinstituting. I'll just be just a moment longer. The work search requirement, it will not and didn't before bring potential employees to our doors. Only a strong motivation to earn a living will do that. Please don't make the UI and payments that soft substitute that kills both our businesses and our state. It's time to bring Vermont forward and all Vermonters need your help to do that. I did submit this testimony writing as well because two minutes might be difficult to digest and I appreciate your time for this. Thank you. Sure. Yes. Thank you, Deborah. Thank you, Deborah. Next we have Lou Mulvaney-Stanik and on deck will be Harry Chakin of Burlington. One second. We can hear you. Thanks for joining us. Yes. Sorry, I just, as the previous folks had just moved my screens around, so let me pull my testimony back up. Okay. I'm ready. Welcome. Thank you. My name is Lou Mulvaney-Stanik. I'm a lifelong Vermonter and I live in Burlington with my partner and three-year-old. First, I wanted to thank you all for making tonight's public hearing happen. The pandemic has amplified so many of our broken public systems. It's important that we understand what is not working so we can fix it. Like many Vermonters, I struggled mightily during the first few months of the pandemic trying to juggle full-time work alongside my partner, full-time care for our two-year-old, and then get through the lockdown. By the end of the summer, exhausted and beyond stressed, we realized it was impossible to sustain the juggling act and we had to face the, the, had to face figuring out what would be next. Due to health insurance and my job ending, I dropped out of the workforce so I could provide more care for our toddler and manage our day-to-day lives. This was my first time as an adult ever needing to pursue public assistance. It was humbling to say the least and we were so grateful for the expansion of eligibility. While the DLL has stated the internal systems are woefully out of date, I think there's bigger issues. It's in communication with users, user interface, and oversight management of the program. Here are just a few specifics I experienced. Excessive wait times on the phone. This was in August and still to this day. The website is a filing disaster. The instructions are clunky, outdated, information is still up about the holidays and there are broken links scattered all over the place. Since this call center was outsourced out of state, I constantly have trouble getting answers to my basic questions like what is my eligibility going forward and will my temp work impact my eligibility? I'm almost done. And when my personal information was compromised in the tax form fiasco, DLL's emails were super hard to understand even for me and I feel like I'm pretty educated on trying to navigate systems. It made an already alarming situation even harder. Finally, when communication had the communication has been lacking quite literally. I got kicked off of benefits with no notification and I had to laugh when I saw that Governor Dean got an intro packet due to fraud, but I never got anything when I got signed up. Using our unemployment system has been time-consuming, stressful, and frankly, I'm paranoid that I'll be accused of fraud because if something isn't right in my account with DLL. 13 months into the pandemic, the user experience should be top-notch, not this clunky and not this crummy. Thank you. Next up is Harry Chakin and after that, I believe we have Martha Dallas. So, Harry Chakin is next and Martha Dallas is on deck. I'm gonna, I hope I can fit this in two minutes. I've been a stagehand at the Flynn Theater for the last 20 years. The pandemic started in March of 2020 and every theater in the country closed and so obviously I had no income for a while and then the CARES Act kicked in and so for a few months I was sort of okay and then the first round of the CARES Act ended in September of 2020 and the the extended benefits that were supposed to have been provided for did not happen and so I got no checks whatsoever from September 20th until February of 2021. I made many, many phone calls. Two minutes is not nearly enough to describe the frustration of all the phone calls that I made and all the completely different pieces of information that I got from every single person I spoke to. Eventually I wrote an email to the governor's office and the governor's office sort of tossed me back to the DOL but they tossed me back to a guy who was sort of higher up than the call center employees and he got things straightened out enough that I started getting paid again but once he got things straightened out to where I started getting paid again I said so in point of fact I should have been getting paid all this time shouldn't I and he said yes and I said so you guys owe me a lot of money and he said yes but I don't know if you're going to get it and so to this day they owe me a lot of money and I don't know if or when I will ever get it and that's two minutes thank you very much for listening. Thank you so much for being here. Next we have Martha Dallas and after Martha I believe that we'll have Roxanne Boat. Oh no Roxanne is not yet here so Anne Bowen. Hi folks I'm ready. Welcome. Thank you. Thanks for this opportunity. I am self-employed and I filed my initial claim for pandemic unemployment assistance in late March 2020. After several weeks I realized there were two weeks for which I was eligible but had not received payment. Looking for answers I called the hotline and was told to be patient. By July 30th there were five such weeks ranging from April 4th to July 4th. I didn't understand what was up with those claims. I called again and the agent discerned the problem. I had reported negative income since I was accounting for my expenses which had exceeded my income for those five weeks. She fixed the claims escalated my case and told me to wait. I called again on September 2nd was told to wait. On September 3rd I got an email referencing a claim number indicating a wait of several days for a response or action. There was none. September 19th I called again and was told to wait. On November 18th I called again and was told to wait. On December 14th I called again. I was told to wait until possibly in 2021. On December 22nd I called Bernie's office. I never heard back. In January or early February I reached out to Emma Mulvaney Stannock for help. She stuck with me and in early March told me that the issue was with the sales force database. On March 16th I received an email from someone named Mark who was working on my case and on March 19th finally the five payments arrived. They were between nine and 11 months late. Thank you. Thank you for being here Martha. Next up we have Ann Bowen and on deck will be Jeremy Allaire from Hyde Park. So Ann welcome and go ahead and unmute yourself. Hi Ann. Hi how are you? I think okay now I've got it. Yeah so I am in the appeal process for the second time. I have been viewed as having quit my job when in fact I've been trying to explain that I actually had to leave my job based on a relative who's now deceased since this all started but I was caretaking for this relative working part-time from home for my workplace with their permission with reduced hours and then when I was asked to come back to the workplace even on a part-time basis I explained that I couldn't do it. The whole time they had explained they would have me back as they could and this was pre-pandemic and then the pandemic hit and everybody was let go. My manager at the time was furloughed and it was taken over by a bunch of new people. So I feel that I've tried my best to try to explain this. I was denied regular unemployment. I appealed that albeit later in the game. I appealed it after the 30 days but I was encouraged by several people calling in several times and also experiencing what some other people have explained as drop calls, wait times that were tremendously frustrating, etc. But I finally got this appeal in and they denied me but they said, you know, we're going to look into PUA for you. This is the board at this point and so they did that and I'm at the point where they have now denied me PUA and I've appealed again and I'm just wondering why this isn't understood as my having left because I had an ill relative at the time the pandemic then hit and I would have been coming back shortly after that because my relative died at the end of February but it's just it's frustrating to say the least. I've gone a year plus without any income and I know my time's up so I'll stop there. Thank you for sharing your story Anne. Thank you. Thanks for being here tonight Anne. Next up we have Jeremy Allaire and then on deck is Susan Ishim of Newbury. Welcome Jeremy. We represent a couple of hands. We just lost Jeremy so I'm bringing Susan and now we'll see if we can get him back. Okay, welcome Susan. Go ahead and unmute yourself. Thank you. Can you hear me? Yes. All right thank you. I applied in 3 2020. I had left employers for a health reason not COVID related. It was adjudicated and denied of 4 2020. I called DOL in 9 2020 to see if the requirements had been exchanged due to COVID. Spoke with an agent who told me I had been actually approved this entire time. She reopened my original claim, told me to start filing again and I would receive back pay from 3 2020 and current benefits moving forward. I called for an update two weeks later, spoke to another agent who had no idea what I was talking about, spoke with her supervisor who found the recording of the conversation with the first agent, apologized for the misinformation, told me they waived the 30-day appeal and told me to file an appeal on merits of leaving. 10 2020, I contacted Kelly at Vermont Legal Aid. 11 2020 received a notice of hearing for untimely appeal. 12 2020, appeal was heard by Judge Horowitz. Judgment was in my favor since I had not gotten the second page with the initial denial. That explains the 30-day appeal limit and continuing to file. 12 2021, another hearing regarding merits of leaving employment's judgment in my favor. 12 2021, I received 40% of back pay because I had to manually file for weeks between April and September. 2 2021, I got notice of denial from Department of Labor because I had not filed continuously, although getting a denial was one of the options as to why it may be valid reasons for not filing. 2 2021, I appealed the third denial. May this day, I am now 14 months in and I am owed 60% of back pay. There seems to be zero accountability for the appeals department within the Department of Labor. I have reached out even to Michael Harrington and his personal assistant couldn't even get information. I'm very troubled that any government agency should be so completely unreachable or without accountability. At this point, DOL owes me upwards of $17,000 for 14 months on items that have already been adjudicated and have already been judgment in my favor. Thank you. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you, Susan. Thanks for being here tonight, Susan. So, unless we have reconnected with Jeremy Allaire, I think next we will go to Cody Fitzgerald and we'll see if we can get Jeremy back as soon as Jeremy is reconnected. So, welcome, Cody. Hi there. I hope you all can hear me. My name is Cody Fitzgerald. I'm a resident in Graniteville. This all has been pretty frustrating to the least. The phone calls I probably made at least once a week. I stopped working in March of 2020 due to COVID as well as being a single parent and only parent actually. My son's mom passed away in 2019, so it's solely up to me to provide for the both of us. His childcare also shut down, so I applied for unemployment. I've only had to do this for a couple of weeks in my entire lifetime up to this point. Things went well for a while. We get to June of 2020 at which time the online services to file your unemployment had gone very wacky. I would get confirmation numbers saying it was filed when it actually wouldn't be filed. So, I ended up having a department start to file for me at this time. An error came up where one of the department workers filed that I had claimed unemployment benefits in another state, which I tried to explain. I've never lived, let alone worked in another state in my entire life. This brought my claim to the adjudication process. Due to COVID-19, that normally is a 60 to 90 day process at which time I waited over 284 days of calling weekly. Finally, in March of this year, they finally gave me a payment from February until March of this year from when my new claim would have opened. And I'm actually still in the process of waiting on 24 weeks of back unemployment for the year of 2020. And I'm actually still going through a waiting process I call. They say they have no new information. I ended up having to get an attorney from Vermont Legal Aid. They called after they called. That is actually when I actually received my payment in March. But the only reason I received the payment is because the fact I had the attorney reach out. There is definitely some issues that need to be handled in the Department of Labor. Cody, thank you. Thank you for sharing a story. Thank you. Yes, thank you, Cody. And next up, we have Renee Carpenter. And after Renee on deck is Patricia Weston. And I'll just remind folks who are watching from the attendees section, if you weren't able to complete all of your thoughts in your two minutes, you can feel free to submit your testimony in writing. So next up, we should have Renee. Great. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Welcome. Thank you. I'm going to try and read. I haven't tested it. I've been working today. And hopefully I'll stay within my two minutes. COVID-19 has a message for you. And I guess I want to start by saying I became really seriously ill last December before the mass public was informed about the new virus. All of my symptoms matched up. It wasn't a flu. My life stopped. I had a high fever for days on end, having kept a large family healthy for many decades using nutrient dense foods, a combination of herbal and homeopathic treatment, vitamins, food is medicine, et cetera. I knew how to quarantine. I had my supportive friends out of my contaminated space. I was an unfortunate to have friends and neighbors who dropped off easily heatable nutritious soups until my strength began to return. It took weeks. But not having heard yet about COVID-19, I never even thought about seeking medical attention. By the time I heard about the new virus, I was still too weak for my normal activities, like going out into the cold or driving. But I was clearly on the mend. And after hearing the tail end of the last person, I want to say that clearly I was one of the luckier people. I feel like COVID-19 has a message for all humans and especially us in Vermont of all states. We should have learned it. Stay home, stay safe, take care of our neighbors and our most vulnerable residents and that what we used to think of as normal wasn't working because in addition to the emergency of a viral pandemic, we're still in the midst of a climate emergency. And these two are not separate. And given the economic statistics that since the pandemic trillions of dollars in wealth rose further upward to the already wealthy, COVID-19 should have taught us that our economic system is broken, unjust and destructive to both our human and ecological communities and well-being. And I'm testifying today in response to the current administration wanting to revert back to documenting that people who seek unemployment support to get through the pandemic that we're still in is a failed policy and should be dropped. That's why I'm testifying today. It makes me furious. But to get back to myself just briefly, my winter work. So in the summer, I started on Monday, I am employed as a gardener from early May through October or early November. But my winter work is self-employment. I do freelance grant writing, nonprofit coordinating, and other freelance self-employed literary services. Sometimes I do carpentry and painting. But I'm on my own in the winter. But one of the symptoms of COVID-19 almost, I mean, I'm not medical. I'll speak for myself. But it's consistent from what I hear, including myself, is a total lack of physical and intellectual energy. Some people call it brain fog. And you've heard of these long hauler symptoms and mental confusion continues well after some physical energy begins to return. And believe me, it takes a long time for the physical energy to return. Renee, thank you very much. I'm afraid if you have my time, unfortunately, yes. Wow. Okay. Well, please submit some testimony in writing. I will submit something in writing. Thank you. We appreciate you being with us tonight, Renee. Thank you. All right. Thanks for having the hearing. So next up we have Patricia Weston. After that will be Jocelyn Emilio. And then on deck is Caitlyn Porter. So welcome, Patricia. Thank you for being with us. This is Mike again. We just had her and we just lost her again. So I'm going to bring you Jocelyn. All right. Welcome, Jocelyn. And my apologies to those of you who are waiting in the attendees area where we've got staff helping us keep an eye on who's here and who's not here. We've had a few folks who weren't able to join us when we called their name, but we certainly hope they'll get here before seven o'clock. So next we should have Jocelyn. Can you guys hear me? Yes, we can. Would you like me to join video or not? I do have my 10 months old on me. I have no other help. So you're going to see a wiggle worm or I can just stay off. I think that would be particularly refreshing after a long day of looking at Zoom screen. So kind of on the go here today. So it's a little cranky. So I will put him down if he gets a little naughty here. Say hello, Kingston. Now, just quickly, I just want to ask before my timer, I guess. Yes, babies. What do you want to hear from me? Because I've been going back in the emails and I was asked by someone at Legal Aid to testify, which I have no problem. I did for the Senate of Economic Division II as well a couple weeks ago, but I want to make sure I stay on point here and get testified for what you're looking for. So this public hearing is with the intention of understanding how the UI system has worked or not worked for Vermont employers and Vermont employees during the COVID pandemic. And so if you have the experience that can shed some light on to what worked and what didn't work for you, we would love to hear that. Yep, and I can. I will do that. So did you want me to start? Yes, go right ahead. Okay. So last March, April, when the pandemic hit, I was pregnant with my son. And after working 11 years for a corporate company from home remotely, getting a really good salary, you know, nearing 80, I was let go due to being pregnant and let go during the COVID. For the first time in my life, I had to seek the unemployment division of Department of Labor for help. I never have had in my life, but I knew it was there and I paid in right for a reason. So I did do that. After settling with my company with a severance, I had gone online and put in my wages, my last paycheck, my vacation, my severance, and uploaded everything into the unemployment system, right, to get unemployment. I did so. They came back and they gave it to me. So I was like, Yay. I'm trying to rush because of the time. And what happened was, at the end of the day, after I sent in all my PDFs and all my information, they came back and said I committed fraud. I did not commit fraud because I had done everything. So I had to go to legal aid. I had to appeal this. I had to go through months of not having any money with a newborn on my own coming out of a domestic violent relationship. And me and legal aid, eventually long story short, we won. But it was loopholes. It was proving. It was, you know, calls with her. It was call over and over again. It was me providing my information, my emails to the department showing them this is what I gave you. You have all the information. Essentially, I never lied, right? They did not make the process easy for somebody who was alone as a single mother and needed the help and relied on the system she paid into constant calls with people from out of state that don't understand our state, our legislator, our government, right, our Senate, our anything made it even worse. I did not have a great experience. The people working and I know I'm out of time, but I just want to say like the people working there, it's not their fault that they were, you know, sent out, contracted out. But I finally got a contact that was actually in Vermont and she was the only one that could help me because she had been there at the Department of Labor for a long time. But man, I'll tell you, it was not a good experience in the beginning at all. I went through a lot of stresses with this and I did a lot of self advocating and a lot of work myself from my own experiences to make sure that they paid me back all my money and then I continued on. And one thing as a single mother, I don't like, I like the work search, but I don't like how they've made their system is still backed up. I called today and I have no childcare, right? None. They're forcing me to do three things to look for a job. I have no problem working, I've always worked, but I don't have daycare. So it's like, you could, you could, they said that they're doing this thing where you could be exempt, right? Well, with all the system and all the backup and all the issues going on, how do I know if my work search, if I say I don't have childcare, when's that going to catch up? You know, and how do I know if they're going to catch it and say I committed fraud because I didn't, you know, look. So I'm not putting people down and understand there's problems in every system, but it definitely needs an overhaul and an update because it's constant. It's not a great thing to be in. I rather work. Jocelyn, thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for letting me. Thanks for being with us, Jocelyn. And we appreciate the color and the activity of a COVID baby. Thank you for sharing him with us. So next up, we have Caitlyn Porter and on deck is Wendy Zimmer. So Caitlyn Porter, welcome, Caitlyn. Can you unmute yourself? Hi, welcome. Good evening. So my name is Caitlyn Porter. The last day I worked was March 12, 2020. I chose to be home the following week for extra support for my middle schooler with anxiety, whose school abruptly closed and five year old. I was encouraged by my employer to apply for unemployment on March 22, which I did. I was on furlough until May 4, but have a lifelong respiratory illness. So HR agreed to let me be on furlough until May 15, hoping to stay home, stay safe, order would be lifted, but it was extended another month. My doctor's office sent a doctor's note on June 19, stating that I am at increased risk of serious complication if I contracted COVID. I checked in with HR in July and was allowed to remain on furlough another month. In August, the governor said that people should plan to be home until the end of the year. So at that point, I didn't want to feel like I was taking advantage of my employers. I loved working there. And I knew I wasn't going to be back until I felt that it was safe with my lung issues. So I told them that if they needed to replace me, I would understand and I didn't want to feel like I was taking advantage. So they accepted my resignation and I let unemployment know that I left a job. On September 2, I received an email request for information. They gave me a two-day window, which I replied the same day, gave them all the information, everything that I just told you. The last time I received unemployment was November 7. I received my determination letter on November 24, stating that I owed the Department of Labor $23,103 unless I appeal within 30 days because they say I failed to report that I quit a job in March, which I didn't quit until August. On January 11, I was told my appeal was in the queue and they were scheduling November appeals and I never received a response. I can put the rest in, but I do want to say that I understand that the Department of Labor is short staffed. But they are, I met all the time requirements that they asked of me. I appealed within 30 days. I did everything. And between my determination, I'm sorry, yes, there were 155 days between my determination letter and my notice of my hearing. It'll be over six months from the time I received my last unemployment by the time I have my hearing. And the Department of Labor needs to be held accountable. I would have had to pay the money back if I hadn't appealed within 30 days. They should not be allowed over five months to help people. I have, I were a family of four. We were a single income family and we have had no income since November. Thank you for your time. Thank you for sharing, Caitlin. Thank you for being here tonight, Caitlin. Next up, we have Wendy Zimmer and on deck is Joe Luno. Welcome, Wendy. Hi, good evening. I quit my job because it became unsafe due to COVID. I was running a sorority house at UVM. I was living in close quarters with 19 women who had returned in September from all over the country and who would be attending in-person classes and participating in all other sorts of campus life. The stress became too much when they actually arrived on campus. My job duties required me to live in the house full time. Due to COVID, my employer also required me to pick up extra cleaning duties in the house. It felt unsafe because of my personal situation with my partner, so I alerted my supervisor and turned in my notice. My partner had stage four terminal stomach cancer. He was on his 16th chemo treatment at the time and therefore extremely immune compromised. I had a letter from his doctor to prove it. During the day, I helped him with everything from laundry and cooking to driving to Dartmouth and the treatment center in St. Johnsburg. I was traveling back to my house in Burlington in the evenings. It just became too risky once the students returned to campus as I feared exposing him. I didn't see any other options other than to quit. I loved my job. It was fun and exciting until COVID. Since leaving, the person who replaced me was exposed and asked to quarantine outside the house along with a few other students. This justified my decision to leave my job. I contacted my representative and he referred me to Act 91, Page 30, which refers to situations regarding Vermont's response to COVID-19. One of their criteria is caring for a family member who is considered high risk. Therefore, I am entitled to benefits. I quit on September 13, 2020 and started receiving regular unemployment. My last check was November 17th when they denied me. I submitted an appeal December 8th and I am now scheduled on May 17th at which time I've been told I may be denied again. Then I have to submit everything to the PUA program. I have no idea how long that will take either. Bottom line, I've not seen any money since November 17th and bottom line, the process is way too long and far from over, I think. Thank you. Thank you, Wendy. Thanks for being with us, Wendy. Next up, we have Joe Lunow and after that, deck will be Patty Curtis. Welcome, Joe. Joe, are you with us? I am with you. You're looking for Joe Lunow, correct? Yes. Yes, I'm sorry. I am testifying for my backyard in St. Albans. Let me get a proper angle if I may. That's excellent. Is that okay? Yes. Yes, so I'm Joe Lunow from St. Albans and I represent Handytale in St. Albans and appreciate you taking up my testimony. For the purpose of this hearing, I did pull our contribution rate notice from last June which shows that over the past three years, we remitted a little over $173,000 to the unemployment fund for which a little over $44,000 was paid out on behalf of claimants. We certainly understand the need that the fund needs to have positive balance and that there are administrative costs, but the fact that more or less $0.26 in the dollar gets paid out to claimants based on employer's contributions, there's a suggestion, there's a deficiency in the unemployment insurance administration infrastructure, which we really think is akin to asking someone to dig a hole in the tablespoon and then being upset with the results. I think a lot of the testimony we've heard thus far speaks to that issue on behalf of both employers and claimants. With those comments made after experiencing an unemployment claimant tsunami, which was last year that we're just in the tail of, and probably the most significant since the Great Depression, our fund to the best of my knowledge has more or less a $200 million positive balance and I suspect it'll have a more positive balance by the end of the calendar year. So I think employers are already making equitable contributions to the fund and that should remain on schedule one with 2020 calendar year ignored. Thank you. Thank you, Joe. Thank you for being here, Joe. Next up we have Patty Curtis and after Patty will be Will Sipsy of Lincoln on deck. Patty, are you with us? Welcome. I can see you Patty. Oh, there we go. Now we have you unmuted. Welcome. Yeah, well, no, I just got knocked out there for just a second. So excuse me if I'm like reading this a little too fast, but I'm just trying to get in within my two minutes. My name is Patty Curtis and I'm from Hinesburg, Vermont. I was laid off from my job on March 27 of this last year and this is where I'm at. I'd like to begin with the most current issue and urgent need for resolution. A corrected Treasury 1099 received a 1099 in the amount of $600 and it should be $1,200. I began a request for this correction on March 4 two months ago. I have called every two weeks for an update and have found errors on my file each time. One saying PUA, I am not self-employed. One saying they planned to send me a core correct to 1099. I only need one, the Treasury. I ask that this please be sent out by those this week's end in order for me to complete my tax return prior to May 17. I do not feel an extension is warranted after such a long period of time. I've been impacted by the Treasury, VSTS, LWA, 1099 mailing issues, forcing me to freeze my credit report and error and enroll in IDX, fraud insurance, the state covers the cost of insurance for two years if the risk will continue for the rest of my life. The worst search has been constant throughout my time on IU or excuse me UI. In my job profession, it is difficult as the job wage offering is extremely low. With job applications and interviews, the wage offerings result in the loss of previous job of $17,000 to $21,000 and my most recent of $11,000. Yes, there are many thousands of jobs available, although they are not along the line of my profession comprising mostly of restaurant work and manufacturing. I am not one whose UI and federal employment compensation exceeded my past job. As a note, I want to say too that the supervisor I spoke to regarding 1099 just recently said to me, thank you. I want to make you know that you have been very calm, very patient throughout this whole issue. I just ask please that you send me my corrected Treasury 1099 so I can do my tax returns before May 17th. Thank you for being here tonight, Patty. Thank you, Patty. Next up is Will Sipsy on deck. We'll have Brenda Siegel. So Will Sipsy, welcome. Well, we can see you. Hey, I'm learning how to do this. Well, welcome. Thank you. I think I am muted. Can you hear me? We can hear you. Excellent. Can you see me? No. No, you can't. I put this little thing across here. There we go. Okay. Now we can see you. Yeah. Now I got to get back to, I'll aim the camera. I used to be involved in technology. As a matter of fact, oh, I'm sorry about that, Claire. I'll keep my head up here. I used to be involved in technology. As a matter of fact, I used to be the IT manager of the Department of Labor and somebody called me up and said, let's solve this hokum about the Department of Labor can't kick in, figure out whether somebody has kids and kick in some extra money. And I said, well, you know, yeah, they should be able to do that. And then I thought about it. I said, yeah, well, with ADS managing it, yeah, I definitely believe they can't do that. So let me first introduce, but thank you for, I had all this stuff timed out because I'm, I tried to take on time tests at UVM because stuff makes me nervous. So anyway, I took notes so I could be on, and now I can't find my notes, I turn the page. So anyway, yeah, so I think what you're looking at is you're looking at a long-term management problem, which, honestly, it wasn't well managed before ADS got in there, but it got significantly worse. I think the failure of the IUS modernization project looks to me like malfeasance. I mean, it almost looks like Trumpian malfeasance. It almost looks like deliberate malfeasance, but that's just one man's opinion. I've been in organizations where I saw stuff slow walked and I've seen stuff where stuff goes dead. This was the only project where I saw stuff walk backwards. And I started calling people on it, and I was moved to another project. Yeah, so yeah, there's tons of problems there, and they should all be fixed. I wouldn't give the current crew a nickel to do it though. And I'll yield back the balance of my time. All right, thank you, Will. Thanks for being here tonight, Will. Next up we have Brenda Siegel, and on deck will be Jeremy Allaire. Welcome, Brenda. First of all, I just want to apologize for not being here in the beginning. I did not receive the invite, and so on that note, I'm also a little unprepared for this testimony, so I apologize. Thank you all for having me. I'm Brenda Siegel, and for the record, I'm from New Fane. Prior to the pandemic, I worked as a business owner, teaching leadership and civic engagement in our schools, and did seasonal work at Mount Snow, and had a side job of baking at times. Mount Snow had ended for the season at the time, but I came to find out in September due to COVID that my job had been cut, so it continues to not exist now. And I had taught electives, so they were easy to cut out as soon as the pandemic happened, and my business is a performing arts business, which means that it may not return until 2022. It cannot return until we can survive with the amount of audience we can have safely with out-of-town participants. So, though we're opening back up, I would not want to fill a theater right now. I would not feel comfortable with that. And so, when I first got on unemployment with PUA, which I was grateful I had it, the system was not well organized. It didn't explain to me how I needed to let them know what my income was compared to how we file income as self-employed. In addition, my son was also filing for unemployment at the same time because his job that was supposed to begin did not begin. We might have been representative of Long's number one customers during that time. Ironically, I was trying to help hundreds of people file for unemployment as a candidate at the same time, but could not get my own son's unemployment to go through. And so, fast forward to now, when we were getting our tax forms, we between us received about 30 tax forms and could not ask the Department of Unemployment how many we were supposed to have each so that we made sure we had the right number of corrected forms. And they wouldn't tell us what our total amount that we received was so that we could fill out our taxes appropriately without having a fine for not paying our pre-taxes in April. So, I think that the system has failed. I think we all know that. And we really need to revamp the whole system, but also there does need to be, I believe there needs to be consequences because there's just hundreds of people all over the state who were not adequately supported during this time within the Department of Unemployment. Luckily my issues were not as severe as some of the other people that we're hearing from today. Thank you. Great. Thank you, Brenda. Thank you, Brenda. And last up on our list, unless anyone that we skipped over pops into the meeting is Jeremy Allaire. And so welcome, Jeremy. And I would just say while we're waiting for Jeremy to get into the meeting, if you or any of your neighbors wished to be here and couldn't, you can submit written testimony to the email address that is in the Zoom chat right now. It is testimony at ledge.state.bt.us and you can also find that email address on our committee pages. So welcome, Jeremy. Thank you. As a small business owner, owner, manager and good employer, we keep getting the short end of the stick. We rarely fire and never lay off yet we lose cases and keep getting charged. For instance, an employee works for me three days a week and they work two days at another and if they get fired at their other two-day job, I get fronted for the bill for being the main employer. Another is I'm getting billed from employees that quit years ago because they got fired quick and laid off from another job I get billed. And it's also cheaper right now for me to keep employees on payroll than it is to incur the three-year tax hike that we receive. I had reached out to past employees to come back after they had quit and I then got charged because I did not properly offer them a job. The employer side of the hotline has been disconnected for six months with no way of getting answers or questions to properly defend ourselves. We get no phone calls to share our side and cases are just getting pushed through and we feel as though you guys are just trying to get money to fill up and regardless whether it's right or wrong, they get pushed through. In 2019 we had 141 applicants and two of those actually worked out and the rest either never responded or never showed up. Their first day of work, many just cycle through every couple of months. This year we had eight applicants and one responded with an interview. We have 15 employees currently. To properly staff, right now we need 40. That's 25, but by Memorial weekend properly trained and ready and that is just basically an impossible task currently. We are on every platform. We spend $100 a day on ads and currently we are closing at two o'clock when we normally are open until nine. Retired owners are forced to work, close or sell their businesses and right now every single person on unemployment should, the amount of, we're desperate and desperate for help. We need 25 people. I've talked to 10 agencies and they said that's an impossible task as well and we are having to close often on days. We're open seven days a week and we have reduced hours and my employees are overworked, stressed and I can't imagine this summer is going to be a nightmare. Not getting anyone to help. We need help or we're going to have to close and that's a shame because we have a creamy stand, a deli, pastures, stalkers. We hire many, many people for multiple positions and we are not getting anyone and we are everywhere on every platform. So that's it. Jeremy, thank you very much for your testimony. Thank you Jeremy and we've had a few folks who joined us a little bit late because of not having received the link apparently. So next we have Roxanne Vogt so welcome Roxanne from Morrisville and from Burlington. Thank you and appreciate the time. I'm just hopping in here so a little bit informal but I do want to just say for the record this is Roxanne Vogt. I'm in Burlington in the Old North End not representing my employer which is Vermont Businesses for Social Responsibility. I wanted to share a story today not really for myself but for so many others who probably won't be able to contribute. So my story is one of someone who applied for benefits last spring was a situation where we generously received a payroll protection program grant. Thank you for those efforts and we're able to have employees sort of who were supposed to go on to unemployment not have to do so and they did have to do so ultimately when that 12-week period ended for the PPP loan and so what that did is you had folks who were starting unemployment benefits and stopping and it seemed to have created some confusion within the application process such that myself and one other of my employees have yet to receive any employment benefits or a total of about $7,000 in benefits due. The challenge that I see is not just the time but the process and the inability to get more information from those we're able to provide it via the helpline. So it's been almost a year now since benefits were due and to those who are applying and again I share this not so much for myself but for those for whom a year is just too long to wait to receive those funds so I appreciate the committee's time and would encourage you to look into not just the urgency but accuracy of information for the applications. Thank you. Thank you Roxanne. Thanks Roxanne for being here tonight. We are through the list of the names we have in front of us right now and so I thought this would be a good moment to pause in case other folks are joining us just a few minutes too late but I would just say to folks who are following along from home or watching this after the fact if you have a challenge with UI that is too complicated to explain here in two minutes please do submit some testimony to the email address testimony at ledge.state.vt.us and also if you have a more complicated situation that maybe warrants contacting your own representative please do that you can find your representative on our legislative webpage at www.ledge.state.vt.us and if you search the page you can find out who your own state representative is and please do contact us and and let us know you know some of the details of your situation. I understand that that the UI system has been challenging for both employers and employees during this time so we hope you will let us know your experience please do reach out to us. I don't see any other names at the moment of folks who were registered tonight but who are not yet here and so I think that's all that we have for witnesses for tonight and again if you were hoping to testify and weren't able to connect with us please do submit your testimony and writing we will have that posted publicly to both committee the joint committee page and then we will also have the individual members on our committee review your testimony and thank you to the commerce committee and my fellow house government operations committee members for being here tonight thank you so much to staff in the background for helping to move people in and out of this zoom public hearing and and thank you to all Vermonters who were here to join us tonight.