 My name is Anna Tervoharkela, I'm head of comms at CSP. I've been with the team for about a year and I've been helping out our team and the Coalition for Impact in setting up this session. I'll be moderating. Johannes, Britta and Allison will be presenting and Erin will be helping us out with technical things. So if I panic or somebody panics she will calm the situation down and bring us back on board and to safety. But I will let the speakers briefly introduce themselves before we start. So on my view, Johannes, you're first. Could you briefly introduce yourself? Thanks, Anna. It's good to know now how you pronounce your name. That was a miracle to me before. My name is Johannes, I'm part of the BMW Foundation and in the so-called invest team. So we have one program part within the foundation where we're trying to foster this transformation of the economic and financial system towards sustainability and impact. And in this program part of the foundation we are investing part of our endowment impact oriented but we're also trying to bring this idea and this concept forward with different activities from like grant projects to setting up new organizations together with partners like CSP or Catapult or Tonic like this Coalition for Impact or platforms in Germany which are promoting the idea of impact investing. Excellent. And Britta, could you say a few words about yourself and CSP? Yes, with pleasure. So at the Center for Sustainable Finance and Private Wealth at the University of Zurich, we are educating especially next generation wealth owners from around the world on how to become impact investors. And we've been doing that for about five years now together with the Initiative for Responsible Investing at Harvard Kennedy School. And yeah, my personal role is that I'm the personal development lead which means that I'm working one-to-one with individuals who are taking our program on their personal development and leadership topics so that they become the most effective change makers they can be. Exactly. So that is the core of this session as well. And Allison, could you quickly introduce yourself and Catapult? Certainly, thanks Anna. So Allison Ford, I'm the CEO at Catapult Foundation and I'm also impact partner at Catapult Group. Catapult, the system has two parts, the group and the foundation, all working using impact technologies, impact investing and consciousness, driving us towards a future where we can all thrive as people on the planet. The group invests in early stage impact tech entrepreneurs and in the foundation, we are building the field for impact investing and impact tech. And one of our biggest pieces of work is around movement building and we have the Catapult Future Fest which is a festival which until 2020 was a three-day in-person event, not dissimilar to Socap but in Oslo focused on impact tech and impact investing. Thank you. And Allison has been hopping in and hopping out of Hopin also with Catapult. I guess you are the most senior Hopin user. But okay, good. So this is the crew. And then Erin and I, we work with Britta at CSP. Erin beats the program Britta mentioned together with the initiative for responsible investment at Harvard. And yes, as I said, I do communications at our team. And all right, we're right on time. And to break the ice, I would want to lead us to the topic of our session by asking a question for you, from you. So basically the topic of our session is leading the way towards a sustainable new normal. Obviously the framework of this session or the frame is set by the current crisis, the COVID-19 crisis, which is also why we are meeting here online instead of in-person. And to set the scene, why leadership is as important as it is at this moment, I would like to ask you a few questions and I'd like you to submit your answers in the chat. So Erin, if you could please show us the first question we have. Here's the order. Are you able to share your screen? Don't reveal the answer. All right, so when you double click the screen share, you should see the question. It's quite small also for my screen. Okay, I'll switch to the bigger one. So basically the question we would like you to think about is, how many million does the World Bank expect to be pushed to extreme poverty due to the COVID-19 crisis? Are we talking about around 10 million? So something like the population of Sweden, around 60 million, something closer to the population of South Africa, or around 80 million, equivalent to the population of Germany, or are we talking about a sum closer to 130 million? So that would be the population of Japan. So what are your thoughts? How many people will be pushed to extreme poverty? So, okay, Johannes is saying B, South Africa. There's C, okay, C and B, D. Like, okay, it seems like we're pretty confident that no A, there will definitely be more than 10,000 pushed towards to extreme poverty. Well, the correct answer is C, so around 80 million. I think that the lower estimate is around 70 million, and then the kind of higher baseline was around 90 million. So, and this we're talking about extreme poverty. So we are not talking about those who will be pushed to anything but extreme, but just poverty in various forms. So, yeah, to underline leadership is what is needed now because we are talking about huge tragedies to a significant number of individuals. Erin, second question, please. So this is more of a personal question now to you. So how has this crisis impacted your personal decision-making? So how do you see, or how have you noticed your own personal decision-making shifting in the past six months? Are you more or less like, yeah, same, same, not much has changed, just waiting for the normal to come back to the good old normal to be normal again. Do you see minor changes in your everyday life who've maybe become a bit more aware of the vulnerability of yourself, the society you're surrounded with, and so forth? Or have you noticed that your actions actually impact others a lot, it's the positive or negative? Or then would you say, D, that you have noticed that you have the power to bring about change in your immediate surroundings but maybe also in a broader space as well. So there's a lot of Cs maybe, all right. Okay, so awareness has been raised, one could conclude. So good, thank you with this teaser, with this kind of warm-up exercise, I'll also shift my screen or my view to this one so that I can look at you properly. Yeah, with this, I would like to introduce Alison or I would like to give the floor to Alison to share how the past six months have impacted Catapult and from the perspective of leadership. So what has been going on on your end? Thanks Anna. Well, I think your intro with regards to Hopin is exactly where I'm going to start. So some of you on the call may know and many will not. So as I mentioned, Catapult Future Fest was our largest sort of event that we have been doing for four years now. And of course this year, we knew in March that we were not going to be able to go ahead to do something we didn't feel comfortable planning something in May, but we at the same time felt that we all needed to come together and there was an even greater need and urgency for our community to convene. And what could we do? How could we put something together? So we created the Catapult Cloud. So we turned Catapult into a fully virtual festival and we used Hopin. So we were one of the first large events to use Hopin. Hopin was very sort of early in its development. But that whole process of making those decisions, creating something new, working with our partners, deciding sort of how and what sort of we wanted to try and give back to the community. It was really, I think, an important period for my own leadership and my own development. And I think that there's some lessons learned there that's quite happily shared, lessons that I'm still learning. And I think that is the number one point that I'd like to make is that we had to unlearn and relearn and continue to experiment, continue to sort of unpick and refit. So we did not want to sort of just recreate an in-person event virtually. We wanted to sort of think through what was our additionality, what was going to be needed at that time. How could we sort of put together a virtual event that having never done one before and sort of try and release ourselves from thinking about how physical events should go and to give ourselves freedom. So that adaptability and that freedom to experiment, that freedom to sort of let yourself unlearn and then relearn things. I was definitely sort of, and I think the first time in my career that I've had to sort of go through all of that over sort of quite sort of an intense and short period of time. And I think sort of looking forward, it's interesting the session I just did and the session I'm going to go on to do is around systems change. And what we're seeing with regards to the collapse of civilizations and sort of standing on this precipice where the old order is falling away and we need to move into the new order. And I think that those skills of experimentation, adaptability, transparency as another one, we ask sort of all of our participants that joined us in Catapult Cloud and all of our partners to bear with us, to come along with us for the ride, that vulnerability and that transparency that we'd never done this before, things were gonna go wrong. We asked for sort of people to give us and come with us sort of on this journey. And I think those are all skills that as we go through sort of even greater periods of disruption and certainty, I believe. So you talk about a new normal. I think that is the new normal in my view that those skills of vulnerability, transparency, adaptability, experimentation that are difficult for us as human beings often are gonna be sort of I think where I'm gonna continue to need to keep learning and keep talking and being in forums like this with, with other great people too, so we can support one another. Excellent. You said, you mentioned one of my favorite concepts, which is unlearning. So before I hand the mic or give the floor over to Britta, I would like to ask you all participants to write in the chat, what is something that you have had to unlearn in the past six months? So I'll give you a few minutes to, to write and also to read some of the responses. Also, dear speakers, feel free to chime in, hear your unlearnings. Yeah, that's a good unlearning. Yeah. Physical presence is to unlearn that physical presence is the only way to motivate and inspire. I have put it on the tie here. I like the extravert one. Actually, we found as well, as the comments people continue to type, that the great thing about Hoppin and virtual conferences is that you can really program for the introvert. People don't have to speak up. People can dare to sort of go into a session that they might, that they would not necessarily have dared to walk into in a physical convening. So you can also give yourself, you know, courage to put in a range of sessions and a range of different content and go different, go, you know, expand yourself and go in different directions. Yeah, somehow, like I'm trying to formulate what I've unlearned and what Natjula said, that unlearning, unlearned to dissociate being formally addressed from being productive. I think this is something that I have also had to unlearn that the fact that I sit by the computer does not equal productivity. It's somehow like it's more nuanced or just kind of redefining what efficiency means, means in a way. All right, good. Keep sharing your unlearnings. Keep unlearning as we move to British input, or inputs. Great. Wow, what a cool intro this was, Alison. I will definitely refer to some of that again. Let me see if I can share afterwards. Well, I can do that after. So let me just intro first. I really love what Alison has said about unlearning and relearning and that this is the actual new normal. So I'm going to look, you know, within our panel at this topic of leading the way towards a sustainable new normal. How can we use this crisis to turn it into an opportunity for the world we want to create? And I'm going to look at this from the personal development and leadership development perspective. Now, everybody will have their own concepts. What does it mean to be a leader? The leader is always responsible for their world in some ways. And our world has really dramatically shifted. What Alison has referred to is sometimes also called the new VUCA world, which is volatility, uncertainty, complexity and ambiguity. And this is a massive thing to deal with when you're a leader. You're trying to make sense of this for yourself, for the people that you're leading and then for everyone else, all of the stakeholders that you're trying to influence. So what is actually leadership? If we're just putting it into context at a high level, there are different competencies that you can have as a leader and different elements of what can constitute leadership. So one can be that you're focusing on the processes. Maybe this is closer to managing what is going on, having good workflows, you know, everything is in place. So that's one aspect. Then there's another one, which is really the leadership competencies. So typically these are the things that you also learn when you maybe go to, you know, a course and they're teaching you, you know, these are the top 10 things to do when you're a leader. I personally, you can already feel my voice kind of cramming up. I hate these kinds of things because my game is the third game, which is the consciousness of leadership. And this is much more the inner game. So this is what is going on within your way of being and way of seeing the world that then has a direct impact on the actions that you are taking as a leader. And, you know, if we're looking at the very fundamental level, the way that I look at leadership is, it all flows from the being. So once you're clear what kind of leader you are, maybe what kind of leader you want to become and what kind of impact you want to have on the people around you, then the actions just flow naturally. Now, what does this mean? The inner game determines the outer game. What is going on at this point in history in pretty much everybody's inner game? I mean, if we look at the big picture, there's really kind of scary stuff going on, right? We have the climate crisis. We have COVID that's triggered health concerns. And, you know, maybe also a kind of a vanitas memento mori moment for people who've never really dealt with health. We have the upcoming US elections and some people are talking about, you know, the possibility of real civil unrest. There is so much going on that is very conducive to an environment of fear. So I would make the case that right now at this point in history and in particular, during the lockdown with all of its economic, societal uncertainties and in the context of the planetary challenges that we are facing, there is so much fear. And I would say even within the people who are trying to contribute to make a positive contribution to really give their best, still they need to be able to be aware of what the impact of fear is on their own leadership and on the leadership of the people around them. So very high level. I always like to go to factor analysis and to the root causes. Like this is what I'm doing all the time. And if you look really just high level, what is happening? So you can either very simplified terms, you know, lead from fear. And this is usually reactive unconscious patterns that have been programmed into you when you were much smaller than you are today. These are things that are trying to protect you from an uncertain world, but can be very dysfunctional. On the positive side, you can also lead from creativity and love and contribution. Though there's much more freedom in that space, but it requires an actual efforts to look at the darker sides that you might not want to see in you and in others. And it requires actual work on your personal and leadership development. So yeah, the reactive structure, which is everything that is fear-based is actually not leading us, not leading us to this sustainable new normal that we want. And when Alison spoke about, we need to unlearn and relearn, I would say one thing that we need to unlearn and relearn is our internal operating system. Because otherwise, we are held back as a society, as individuals and as teams in our old reactive patterns. They focus on things that adolescents want. We want to fit in, right? Want to fit our little place, but this is not creating the future that we want. It's about protecting and reducing our inner anxieties and fears. So there is no risk-free way of creating the future that we want. And what I want to do now is that I show you the three typical archetypes that are showing up for people when they are really reacting from fear rather than responding from consciousness. So let's do that. It's going to be a little bit of fun. I hope you don't mind. Let's go here. Okay, the inner game and the outer game. So what are the three archetypes? And what I would suggest to you is to just look at yourself with a little bit of a mirror and see which one you might identify with more than you once took knowledge. So the first one, the pleaser. So I took here the genie from Aladdin. Your wish is my command. So the pleaser is the one that gets really scared when he doesn't belong. So the most important thing there is to be liked, to be loved, to be included. And the pleaser would even transform himself, as you can see here, to a sheep if that is the wish of the other person. Very dysfunctional, very common. Second archetype. The critic. So what is going on with the critic? You might know a Ratatouille where the food critic is the one who never actually enjoys food because he's so critical about it that his life is just a misery and he makes, of course, everyone else's life as well a misery. What is important for the critic? The critic thinks that he's the most brilliant person ever and that he has all the knowledge that is needed and other people are really pretty stupid. So this is a self-protective mechanism that is distancing you from others. Third archetype. The controller. So I took here the beast from Beauty and the Beast. He's, of course, also acting out of fear. He wants to protect his little rose, which is his only chance for finding love and being transformed again into a human. The only problem is that he's terrorizing everyone around him to do everything exactly the way that he wants. And this is not productive for him either. So I've already mentioned the co-operating beliefs that are hiding behind these three archetypes. So there are really three things. The pleaser cares about relationship, his identity and his worth and his reason for being is very much rooted in the quality of his relationships. Then the critic cares about intellect. He is worthwhile if he is smart, the most brilliant person in the room and so on and so forth, but it makes him also very aloof and distanced. Then the controller cares very much about results and only results at the cost of relationships. So this person wants to be the best and is pretty much willing to go very far to get the results that he wants. So to wrap this up, because of course I could go much more in depth in all of those aspects, but just to give you a little bit of food for thought, what could be another way of approaching reality if you have identified with one of those archetypes? So for the pleaser, what could the pleaser do? We see here the genie in the end is released and okay, the genie is packing his bags, we can't do that now, we can't go on holidays, but the point here is for the first time in his life, the genie is thinking what does he want to do and he's acting on it. And this is really the way to greater leadership for somebody with a pleasing personality tendency. What about the critic? So for the critic, it's wonderful if he starts to see a yes and approach to life, is able to innovate and trust others. And what about the controller? So for the controller, it's really important to start to empathize and focus much more on the relationships and put the relationships before the tasks that need to get done. All right, let me go back and I'm happy to go deeper wherever you find it interesting, but I think that's it for now. All right, thank you so much, Brita. Yeah, we will have some time for questions towards the end. So again, I will be posing a question to our audience before the audience can boomerang their questions back at us, but knowing what Brita said, thank you so much for the very thought provoking images also. I would like to ask you people watching and listening and most likely thinking about their own leadership and their own archetypes at the moment. I did recognize myself in all of them. I would like to ask you, I wrote it down somewhere. Yes, so I like this concept of yes and, which is I'm sure that we have all heard of or we have all been prompted to think the yes and way in the past. So I would like to ask you guys watching, what keeps you from thinking yes and? What are somehow like, why is it so difficult to think yes and and or if you don't feel like answering that question, you can also answer from the positive side, what helps you to think yes and? So either what keeps you from thinking yes and or what helps you to think the yes and way? So a few minutes for us to think about this, to go yes and to pause before an answer. Yeah, seems like the yes and is quite often maybe what I see in Mark's response, it's in a way it's this controlling approach. I don't know if you, Brita, see the same, but this in a way when you say that demand management can keep me from yes and it is the kind of demand to protect that rose that keeps you from thinking that, okay, maybe there's something going beyond protecting that rose. Yeah, excellent. I'll let you or please keep on thinking yes and and why yes and and why not sometimes yes and and yeah, I'll give the floor to you, Johannes, in the meantime. Thank you, Anna. To share the final inputs before we move to Q&A. Yeah, I'll keep it very short. Can you see my presentation? Yeah, perfect. Okay, yes. Well, I also wanna keep it on a higher level and Brita asked me to talk about like the crisis and the opportunities in this crisis on a more systemic and organizational from a systemic and organizational point of view. And I just put together two or three thoughts, maybe most of you have already thought about and but maybe could help to kind of spark a discussion about what we're talking about. So just two slides of what the perspective of the BMW Foundation and maybe my perspective is in this discussion. The BMW Foundation is always trying to inspire and promote responsible leadership. So leadership is kind of the core of our organization. And this is based on the belief that every individual can make a positive contribution to lasting beneficial change. And therefore for us, the individual commitment of leaders is a powerful level for change. And it's a change of system. This could be a personal change. This could be a change of system. This could be a change of organization. So everybody starts from an individual because every system is also composed by individuals. And responsible leadership is our way to inspire a better world. Our mission is to promote and inspire responsible leadership and inspire leaders worldwide to work towards a peaceful, just and sustainable future. And through our activities, we aim to advance the goals of the United Nations 2030 agenda. So this is kind of the framing from where we speak. And I would like to start with this. I mean, many of you have already read this quote from Paul Romer from 2004, where he says a crisis is a terrible thing to waste. And maybe in this crisis, it's inhumane. It's in its cynic to keep, to call this crisis an opportunity and to not to waste this crisis. On the other hand, a crisis is always a big opportunity. And it's a way to kind of reshuffle the system on a deeper level. And I was trying to collect some of the things people combine, positive things that people relate to crisis. There is this thing that many of you mentioned. I've read this comment from Kim in a chat that she changed her assumptions, what is possible and what is not possible. I think this is one of the main effects of the crisis that previously unworthy, unrealistic, or too difficult options became realistic. And we all see that things are possible that thought would be an impossible kind of 10, 12 months ago. There's a kind of a matter of urgency. There's urgency for change. And there's a feeling that business as usual is not possible anymore. And this is very important effect also in this crisis. Crisis are also drivers for hard decisions. So we have to take hard decisions. And many politicians took hard decision in the last month. Another effect is like learning from the history. So that the history that led to this crisis. And I think there are a lot of lessons that we have learned in the last couple of months. There's this aspect of drawing attention to shortcomings and defects in the system. So we see that we got into big troubles because we have long chains and technology couldn't save everything and that we had a problem with masks. And we couldn't imagine that having problems was not having masks in our technorized society. There's a chance to eliminate repetitive and efficient, wasteful, problematic, harmful and other unprofitable activities. So there's a way to change. And there's also the establishment of unique and innovative activity, services, products, policies, whatever. And I think there are many other things that crisis can affect. And therefore crisis is always a big chance and we have to take this chance. And if we combine it with a more systemic way of thinking, one might think about this picture. I think most of you know the Nella Meadows and this idea of different leverage points. And I think this crisis pushes us more to the right side of the spectrum. So I think Alison, you talked or I heard John Atkin talking about paradigms. So paradigms are things that people could not imagine. People who were in the old paradigm couldn't imagine the new paradigm. So it's a very deep, deep change in the system. While we were talking like a lot about numbers maybe in 10, 12 months ago, we were talking about moving the trillions maybe. Which is really increasing the number of money and the amount of money we were pushing into the impact investing system. We're more talking about rules now. We're talking about goals now. We're talking about maybe paradigms. And I think that's a very positive effect that the floor is open now for discussions on this right hand side of the spectrum. What does that have to do with leadership? I think, and what does it have to do with responsible leadership? I think leadership is really important. And for us as foundation, leadership has to do with visions and values. And I think having a vision where you wanna go and having values where you base your ideas on are very important to keep the perspective on these systemic structures and the mental models when the crisis is in its last phase, hopefully early next year. And maybe we have a vaccine. I think it's important to keep this discussion going around the basic, about the building blocks of our economic and financial system and to kind of change it in a more fundamental way. And I went from the finish with this quote from Tony Gutierrez and he said, the world can overcome this challenge, but you must learn from the mistakes. Responsible leadership matters, science matters and cooperation matters. Thank you. Thank you, Johannes. There's a lot of questions that I would like to hear thoughts on, but I will kind of pose this question semi-simple one regarding the kind of Peter Clutter Johannes shared. So my question to you, the audience would be, how have your personal leadership goals changed in the past six months? So as simple as that, personal leadership. So a few minutes for that. And then also while you write, you can also think of questions. I'm happy to open the floor for a dialogue. I also have a few questions for our panelists, our speakers. But let's first all think of personal leadership goals. What are the changes we have seen there? Empathy, what you just wrote, Robert, it resonates with kind of how I have been, what I've been thinking a lot about instead of focusing on numbers like you mentioned, Johannes, like the beginning of the, I wanted to say the Axel point or how do you call it, where the... And it's kind of spectrum from depth and... Exactly. So in a way, I've also noticed that it's more, or it's less about what will be achieved and a bit more about how do we achieve this because processes need to be more well thought out now that my things are coordinated from a distance. Yeah, Rebecca makes total sense to me. I don't know how the rest of you are. Would you, do you want to share some thoughts? I could also just first kind of open the floor for you Johannes, Britta, Allison. There's something that you'd like to add to what you said now having, having heard your fellow speakers speak. So one thing that I was going to put in here with regards to leadership goals and also kept copying up that you were all talking about is the importance of relationships and the focus that we've had even more so on relationships as we're all remote. And for sure, I think my sort of leadership goals are to really deepen and strengthen through sort of partnership relationships that I have so that the journey is more pleasurable and you're doing things sort of in partnership and taking time to build those partnerships. Have you noticed that you say like taking the time to build partnerships, like the classic way of building a partnership would have been for example, to meet up at Socap and then go for lunch and for dinner and for drinks afterwards. And this is kind of like the classic way of building partnerships. How have you seen the concept or the act of building partnerships change and are there some learnings that you have derived in the past months? I think you can't take that relationship building for granted and that's you, we really are feeling that and you recognize that. So it's a true sort of investment. The serendipity, I've been able to connect and build those is not there. So if you truly value something, then you need to work on it and you need to sort of make time to work on it. And there's something you'd like to ask or? Well, I'll follow up what Alison said and for me it's an open question if we kind of, if we are able to continue the relationships we already have with people we already met physically or if we can create such deep relationships in the virtual space. So on such kind of events and on other Zoom calls or phone calls or whatever. So for me, this remains to be seen if we really can live permanently in this virtual world. And just one other thought is that it's this huge complexity. It's only this session of 60 minutes but we're kind of talking about things on so many different levels. So like from this intergame to very practical things that they came up in the catapult world to very systemic ways of thinking and doing. So the complexity was one of the things that was one thing that came to my mind in the last couple of months also in this crisis. How complex things are and how complicated it is to bring things together that seem to be easy in a normal kind of normal world. Yeah, I'll ask Britta one question from you regarding complexity and submit your, feel free to submit your questions in the chat or if I'm able to give you the mic I'll be happy to. So Britta, you work a lot with the brain and the complexities associated with how the brain works. How do you see this online onsite world and the complexities of it? Like what have you learned about how the brain works or how decision-making works now that we've been pushed online? Yeah, so you're absolutely right that I focus a lot on like building new neural pathways that are productive rather than self-sabotaging. However, the way to do that is not only by engaging the brain but also to engage the whole being and very important the emotions and the bodily sensations because these are the things that are creating an experience and with experiences we're actually transforming the brain and with repeated practice. So it's kind of a building up of mental muscles and that doesn't only work using thought processes. Actually, it's exactly doesn't work using thought processes. There are very specific moments when kind of cognitive behavioral reconstructions need to be made but otherwise it's very much a whole-bodied experience and the beautiful thing is, this is what I'm seeing in the virtual world it really doesn't matter to me where somebody else is I can connect just as deeply with someone that I have no video call with. I just hear the voice and I understand exactly what's happening there when I'm actually mirroring what this person has in terms of body position, in terms of sharing the thoughts and the emotions that are going on and it's just amazing how much information we have available. So I think in a way it might increase but also reduce complexities. You know, I've been thinking of when I lived in China the best massage, what do you call it? Like massage places, the best massage places were run by blind people in China and they have been trained to do that. So I think a reduction in certain senses have led them to focus even more on the other senses and I think I would just encourage everyone to really connect deeply. Doesn't matter where the other person is. I think the shortest distance in the universe is still heart to heart. And I, no, but I really believe this. And the other thing that I wanted to say before is that I think one thing that has become so much more important and we've been discussing about relationships and the virtual world, I think trust is a big thing that we all need to look into and that we all need to cultivate. And I think trust is much more important now than it was a year ago. Yeah, what you said, Britta, it resonates quite well with what Mission Boston has written in the chat. I have to become more comfortable in virtual space. I work as a consultant, so that's one space. But to rise above the, I think noise, I've had to step out into a more public and charitable space. So in a way like the fact, a bit like, yes, we are in a different space where you need to adjust your senses to some degree. And that means that also some senses that have nothing as active are actually activated, but it's a richness. Being aware of time, I'd like to ask you, you all work with the leaders. So what are some things that you've started to look at when you're looking at leader? Like for example, Allison, when you interact with startups and people in your accelerated programs or organizations who are part of your accelerated program, what are you looking at now that you weren't necessarily looking at, let's say six months ago or before COVID-19 set the terms of our normal? Is there something that you're kind of more aware now like, okay, this is what a good, these are the characteristics of a good leader? Tell her to you. Good question there, I haven't thought of, I haven't thought about. So I don't have a great immediate answer for you. And I think for all of us, this has been sort of an evolving thing. So, we haven't necessarily stopped to, perhaps sort of stop and ask those types of questions. Should we be looking for different things? Should we be valuing sort of different aspects or supporting and cultivating certain aspects in a different way? And for sure, there will be, there is say, it's this continuing to learn, I think this process of continuing to question and reflect that we're all on right now. So, I mean, we have definitely sort of adapted our style with our entrepreneurs, the accelerator programs have all gone virtual in the same way they've gone from being physical to virtual. So, we need to sort of put in other mechanisms to try and sort of get as close to our entrepreneurs, to sort of support them to be leaders and to be great founders that we would have done in the sort of the physical space. So it's all, I think it's time, as you said, they're just spending time and investing the energy into working with whomever we're connected with in our space. That's probably the only great sort of reflection that I've got is that need to sort of invest, I think probably even more so, you know, to realize that- But what I hear you kind of saying is also from kind of the individual leadership point of view that you can't just wait for the new normal or you can't wait for it to go back to normal. It's like, no, you need to invest the time now to act as we are like, no, you need to do it now. It's not later that once we have a vaccine we can start leading again, or somehow like this adaptability, which is, I kind of hear you touch on that topic. I'd like to ask that somewhat similar question from you, Johannes. You also work with leaders, you work on supporting leaders to be more sustainable or to all kind of like enabling a more sustainable world. How has any work with impact investing and you talk a lot about impact, how has the term impact changed for you at the BMW Foundation when you work with leaders? That's a very difficult question. Well, first of all, actually I wanted to ask Britta if she has got recommendations how you can create better relationships via Hopin or Zoom. I think for us we also work a lot with leaders and we work a lot with physical events. So this was the core of our foundation to do really physical events. And it's really complicated to transfer these things into the virtual space. And I think one thing that I realized is that it takes much more time and you need really when you had a retreat of like three, four days before you need a longer period with a lot of different sessions. And what is very important for us is to keep it really in smaller groups of people that they have the opportunity to speak and to have a verbal, verbal relationship more than only kind of the feeling that you have when you meet someone physically in the space. If you have to put it into words, it takes time. And it takes more than one meeting to kind of get this feeling for a person. So for us it's really important to take this time and to stretch it out to a longer period even weeks or months where we kind of have won a format that we had like on three or four days before. If the word impact changed, I'm not sure. I mean, I think there's a kind of, there's a general shift in perspective. So we have this on the one hand side, we have this huge thing of climate change and the environmental problem. And now through this COVID crisis, I think we opened up the perspective also to much more social topics that now are on our radar more than it was before. And that's a good thing. So I think it's a broader definition of impact now in these times of crisis. Yeah, sounds quite interesting. You know, like firstly, on your point about time, like we have also a lot of what I see in my life. It's like, I have time for different kind of things because there's less commuting and all of that. But then it seems like, okay, that time it's actually you need it for something else in a way. Like it's just reshaping these time blocks. Like, okay, you need to have more of these meetings that inspire and bring people together maybe. And yes, impact is needed more than ever. I guess it's just gained quite a lot of weight and depth in the past months, during the past months. My final question, like I said, if there's any question from the audience feel free to type them in. Britta, before we close and maybe us here in Europe we will kind of closing, we'll be closing the day but people at SoCAP will be heading to a bunch of sessions. So what are some, as you are a co-active coach and you work with personal development, what are some of the kind of real life hacks or tips you would like to share with us as we start the week or dive into SoCAP somehow? How can we take our leadership one step? I have two minutes. Exactly. Something nice and yeah, trust and sweet. Oh, there's so much to say. You know, let's just start with the easy basics which is now we're in the SoCAP virtual world which is such a bouquet of things. And I think to make sense of it, it's a bit like a metaphor for life really. To make sense of it is that you need to know what you are actually after. So I think always the key question in the beginning of everything is what does success look like? And this is a very personal question. So if I can just share one thing I think I would share this with everybody what does success look like for you, for this SoCAP experience? And why is that the measure of success for you personally? So not that you're just taking it because it was the recommendation of these clever people on the panel, but what is it for you? And why? And have you questioned that? And where does this come from? And how does it help you grow? And of course I have much more that I could say, but I think it's time that we close soon. And I think intentions are very powerful. Thank you. We're right on time. I'm not quite sure if this will, we will be shot in some different hoping universe now once time or the clock hits 21 or nine, at my end in Zurich, but it's been a pleasure. Thank you from my behalf to all the panelists, Johannes, Rita and Allison, it's been a sincere pleasure. Thank you, Erin, for keeping us afloat and safe. And thank you for all participants. It's been really beautiful to read your input. Thank you for moderating this panel. Pleasure. So, I'm wishing you all a lovely evening and see you around Soka and Hopi. See you. Bye, everyone. Thank you. Bye-bye. I will also, I will just leave and let's finally maybe close in on Soka. Okay. Bye, everyone. Bye, everyone. Bye.