 This is Hawaii, the state of clean energy. I say that because it's the energy policy forum. You're inside the forum. Fabulous, okay? This is the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum annual summit here on October 23rd of some of the chairs who have reported on their work groups here today. And we also have Meena Merita, my co-host, and who can also help us interpolate what's going on here at the forum. This morning we had all the various stakeholders coming forward telling us, giving us an update on what they're doing and what they're looking forward to in the next year. Let's go to John Cole first. You're the electricity working group chair, right? Right. What does that mean? Well it means pretty much everything to do with electricity. We've rearranged our working groups. They used to be divided up a little bit between regulation, I think economics, more tax credit type stuff, and then renewable energy, which they do a lot of work with tax credits and other things, and then electricity working groups. So those three have basically been merged into one electricity sector working group, so I'm the chair of all of that now. So what's been happening on that working group? Well the three working groups were separate. They've only just been conjoined, so that conjoined entity hasn't done a whole lot yet. We're going to talk about some of that more this afternoon, but the electricity working group had taken a look, had a lot of stakeholder input on looking at the various entities in our electricity sector and trying to lay down the roles of each from the utilities to the regulators of PUC, to all the various stakeholders from the university and other state agencies, and just try to lay out all the roles, whether it's statutory or their advocacy roles or whatever they're doing, and then also look at the incentives that each of those groups may have toward moving or just the basic incentives and what those drive and whether they align with, you know, our state energy goals or if some adjustment may be needed. You also reported this morning on behalf of the Light Natural Energy Institute, wonder if you can summarize your report. HNEI has been doing a lot of work with various technologies from solar thin films to biomass to fuel cells, hydrogen, wave energy, and micro grids, and a lot of what I do personally is looking at grid integration, how we make everything work together, especially with high amounts of renewable energy on our system, how we make sure it works within the grid and things remain stable and reliable. I talked about some of the modeling we're doing and that we're going to continue to do, and one of the things HNEI wants to try to be more robust in is its support of some of the planning efforts and the looking at modernizing the grid and, you know, groups like the policy forum, you know, more robustly supporting them, not only just participating, but trying to back up some of what they're looking at with some analyses or analytic work and bring that back in a understandable way that can help move things forward. I just wanted to say, you know, how important the work that's going on at HNEI is and that, you know, people have this concept of, you know, academic research, the researchers are removed from kind of a real life, but this is really applied research and, you know, affecting everything that's going on right now, so they have a really important role here. We've now reorganized as the fuels working group, which we were previously the hydrocarbon future and energy security working group, and I think that speaks volumes to how things are adapting now in Hawaii, and Hawaii's refineries are going to have to adapt along with it. We've invested this year in informing the public and other members of the forum the role that the Hawaii's refineries and fuel industry play, and it's very critical that we be included in any discussions about how we go to the next steps of going renewable, and I think a lot of that discussion is going to have to be how can we innovate, how can we collaborate better so that we are inclusive with all the industries that will have a stake in the near future about how we're going to turn renewable. You know, we are here, the refineries are here to support the state's energy goals, but really right now, petroleum is what we're using today and it'll probably be the springboard to getting us to where we want to go. For Hawaii, we have been, I guess, updating our infrastructure here to be in sync with the needs of the state. As I mentioned a few moments ago during our regular session, the refineries are here to service the state and the needs of the customer, and one of the things we see coming up very or presently faced with is there is a need for jet fuel, and while it may not be renewable right now, there's an immediate demand to move the economy forward, and we have announced the design and construction of a new diesel hydro-treater unit at the refinery. This is the first major unit upgrade that we've had in more than 20 years. It's a big deal for us because it'll allow us to make more jet fuel and distillates like diesel and allow us to place more product in the islands, which is very critical for the way that we look at our product slate. Exporting fuel can be very challenging and we would much prefer to place products in the islands. This will allow us to do that and allow us to meet some other regulations in the future as far as, you know, reducing sulfur and other components in our fuel. So investing in the physical plan is just as important as investing in our employees' training and just making sure that we can go forward with all the challenges that we're faced with. You heard Joelle's Simon Pietri this morning about fuels, especially about aviation fuel. What was your takeaway on that? What is your reaction to that? How does that integrate with what you're doing? Joelle did a very good job of explaining what is actually being done right now out there in the nation, and I think not just the nation but globally. I think sometimes people tend to think that it's moving at such a slow pace that we're not making progress, but there actually is. This is commercial scale production that's going on right now. It's a daunting task to displace all of the fossil fuel, jet fuel out there, but progress has to be made one step at a time and that's a good lesson for us. There are no easy answers to this. Just really intelligent choices for us to make and people working in lockstep to get this done. So I thought that was a very encouraging note that you can make progress. We just have to do it together. Maria Tomei, the chair of the Transportation Working Group, which is so big, billions and billions big. Tell us about your report that you gave. So you were talking about no more silos and the need for collaboration. You know, we talked earlier about the need to integrate and the complexity of the systems, and that is extremely true in the transportation sector as well. And so what we're working with the Department of Transportation and with the counties and with the energy providers and the users. And since transportation sector is not regulated in the way that the utility sector is, it's a different mix. And your transportation planning horizons are many, many years out. And so if you're looking at it from the point of view of land use, guiding how much transportation you're going to need, all the way down to what types of fuels you put in your car, there's a bunch of different stuff that can be done. And so what we did this year was working with the stakeholders. Try to prioritize, okay, how can we build a better system where the transportation and energy folks are sensitive to each other's priorities, and also being able to measure success. Because sometimes success in a transportation arena means, well, you have less congestion your way. And that means on the energy side, wasting less fuel. If you have better design of your cities and don't need to transport people and goods as far, then once again, you're saving on fuel reducing emissions. So if we can measure success wherever it occurs and also identify areas where you're not going to have kind of in the same chance, you know, the electricity sector where, okay, you've got incentives for different things. If you're not aware of what else is going on and what other people's objectives are, you might be building in things that are counterproductive. And so by keeping that dialogue open, you can avoid those pitfalls as well. And then on the smaller term, we'll say, okay, in the next year to five years, what do we need to do? Right? So you're figuring out what to measure. You're figuring out how to work with the others, how to measure success, how to avoid pitfalls. And then in the near term, what can we do that actually makes a difference, a measurable difference in progress in these areas? So that's, you know, kind of what we were working on. And then of course, we had that clean energy day in August. And if folks want to take a look at it, the proceedings are on the HEPF website. So yeah, yeah, anyway, it's just, you know, it's a summary, you know, there was a discussion with a bunch of folks and, you know, big ideas getting distilled down into, into new new plans, new actions, new motivation, I think, also, you know, yeah, this is what I'm doing. And it's not just good from this perspective. Those guys like it too, because it supports a better Hawaii for everybody. Well, I think, you know, I, again, we listen to the different stakeholders, bring us up to date. But what are we going to do moving forward? And, you know, that's, as Sharon had mentioned before we broke for lunch, that's the most important thing. How do we plan? How do you strategize for the next coming year, especially with the legislative, legislative session coming up? And, you know, from my perspective, what I see is there's some, our major critical infrastructure, whether it be fuels, the electrical grid, our, our roadway systems, water systems, telecommunications, you know, at some point, they all intersect with good planning. And so, how do we get out of our silos and look at the big picture moving forward, where, where we know all of these critical infrastructure needs to be upgraded? So, with good planning, what's the minimum investment we can make to get the optimal outcomes? You know, we're looking for actions that the forum can take next year. And at least for my, the group that I'm facilitating on the big picture, what was obvious to me is office of planning needs some kind of update of the functional plans. Some of the functional plans have been updated, but not all. And, and their important role is, and I learned a new word from Leo Asuncion, who's, the head of office of planning is crosswalk. You know, how do we recrosswalk and reintegrate these functional plans? So, you know, how do we take the information from all of these different departments responsible for these functional plans, see where they intersect in that crosswalk to bring them together, to bring a bigger, more comprehensive picture of what's going on. And office of state planning needs the resources to do this. And the last time, the last time that they did do this big update of the, of Hawaii's planning efforts is 1992. So, I think this is a way that the forum can help advocate as, as we did with energy policy early on when there was no real constituency group. Yeah. That, that, you know, put our efforts through advocacy and getting this kind of work done. Almost a repeat of what we've heard before. Just better consolidation and effort on the various aspects of, of moving our, you know, energy policy and just state policy forward. There's been a lot of work done, but individual efforts or group efforts that are only focused in a certain area. Whereas if we can open up the vision to a wider area, it can be a lot more efficient and optimal, like Mina said. I mean, that's a huge job and it's going to take a lot of work from a lot of people. But I think it's important so that we're not wasting resources and getting as much bang for our buck, both money, time and effort wise as possible. We're talking about a lot of money here. I mean, just in, you know, the grid modernization, you know, over the next couple of decades, we're looking at something like 20 billion dollars, I think with the transportation system. Again, that's an additional, additional 20 billion dollars. Where's that money coming from? And I think with those kinds of investments, we can't afford a lot of mistakes here. With the little expected federal guidance, that I think in a way, it kind of opens things up for us to consider new ideas that, you know, maybe if there were more federal direction, we might not be considering because we're, you know, trying to follow that, you know, direction. But I think it could be an opportunity as well. And one thing HNEI wants to stress a little more that hasn't so much, especially in talking about getting to 100 percent is ensuring the stability and resilience of the system. I mean, mainly we talk about electricity at HNEI. But I mean, the fuels, the transportation, all of that needs to be resilient and workable, you know, no matter how things ultimately turn out on a, you know, gradual basis or something terrible happens on a short-term basis like a natural disaster. But stressing that things are planned and built in a way where things can be recovered as quickly as possible or things get back online as quickly as possible is very important. You know, it occurs to me that looking forward, your job, our job is not over, should we be around when 100 percent is reached, say 2045 for this discussion. So how do you see HNEI playing a role after we reach 100 percent? Well, I mean, even if and when we do reach 100 percent, there's still going to be a lot of changes through technology and I guess distribution of energy or, you know, transportation resources where things are still going to need to be, you know, validated or demonstrated with new technologies, figured out how they're going to work into the system in an optimal way in the most efficient way and keep things going like we want to now. But I mean, even with 100 percent renewable, the changes will still be happening just hopefully within the renewable realm and not, you know, trying to get their side of it. I think what it means for our working group and for the forum is to set, I think, intermediary goals and we have an aspirational goal out there, but we need to set more intermediary goals and work towards them diligently because we want these changes to be lasting, we want them to be sustainable. You get to that goal and you get to work on the next one. So I think that's going to take a lot of working together and a lot of innovation, as I was saying earlier. So it's no real surprise that these things just take time to do. But from today's talks and presentations, you know, we are making progress, I think, as a state and we just need to keep it going. And the forum is one of those entities that I think is on the forefront of doing just that. So I think we should all feel good about participating in this, but we've got a lot of work to do. Par-Hawaii has a future in, you know, in making its role going forward. But what happens at the end of that? What happens, I asked the same question to John. What happens in 2045 where we hit 100 percent renewable? Where's Par-Hawaii going to be? Do you have any idea? Would you comment on that? It's difficult for us to predict what will happen at that time, but one thing that we had better make sure that we that we've adapted to whatever state of Hawaii's energy picture is. If we want to be a player, we're going to have to move along with the times. So I can just assure you that our leaders are looking at that very point. You have to adapt to the needs of the state. There's a huge initiative going on between federal government, Department of Energy and Japan to create a sort of joint approach to marketing LNG all over Asia and every country all the way to what he was India and beyond with these huge, you know, container ships, those gas carrying ships. And Japan is actively involved in this because Japan is actively involved in LNG right now. Do you think there's any chance that Hawaii might take a look at LNG going forward despite, you know, the fact that it's, may I say, radioactive politically right now? I think Hawaii has already begun looking at LNG. You know, many of us in the fields industry have always said you're going to need a lot of different forms of energy going forward. There's not one kind of sea for Hawaii. And being remotely located has something to do with that. So while it may not be economically feasible today, one form of energy may prove to be more lasting in the future. So we never say never. I think Hawaii just needs to keep an eye out on all forms of energy and ring to market what it can. But manufacturing at commercial scale is the key. If you're going to displace fossil fuels, that's a long way to go. And it has to be done diligently. May I hand you the afternoon schedule? Can you describe what's going to happen this afternoon? Okay, sure. So after we finish with this lunch, we're going to have a chance to talk about specific initiatives in small groups. And so these are the ones that rose to the top over this past year and need more discussion about, hey, is this something we might want to do? And if so, what are the steps we might take? Now, since that's going to happen in silos, you know, these little groups, five different groups, what comes out of it sometimes has overlap. And so each of the groups will say, you know, hey, these are the things we think need to happen. Top three in the next year, these are the things that need to happen. And if there is overlap between the five groups, then we have a chance to compile that. And then as a whole group, not only hear from each of the groups, I guess we don't have time, but, you know, what, okay, well, one is electrification of transportation sector. Another one is energy efficiency and grid demand response. Another is fuels and greenhouse gas reduction. The fourth one is integrating and aligning transportation and energy planning. And the fifth one is the big picture framework. So each of those groups is going to say, well, the next year we need to do this. And that'll explain why and that will inform everybody get out of your silos and then say, hey, this idea came up five times or maybe came up three. And it seems to have a certain amount of traction at the moment, not to make transportation plans here. But and then we can talk about, okay, well, what needs for that to happen, what do we need to do as the forum? And so what's supposed to come out of this is not only the plan for what the next year will be a focus areas for us, but also recommitting to, okay, does that fit in with the overall mission, the overall objectives that we have stated for the forum as a whole? I kind of like the benevolent dictator. Yeah, it's a lot easier. Consensus is hard. But I think what we all have in common here is working towards the public interest, working towards the public good. And, you know, that's the culture that we want to establish here, even though we come from diverse backgrounds, viewpoints, primary interests that we're all working for towards the public good. And I think in these times, especially when we're going through major transformation, costing, you know, billions of dollars, I think Lance brought up a really good point in moving forward. You have to be flexible and adaptable. That's a really key important characteristics that we have to have now that we have to be able to take good information, good data. How do we apply it? Act on it. But, you know, when you make mistakes, you got to correct it quickly. So adaptable, flexible in everything that we do. Thank you so much for especially coming in at the last minute to join us this afternoon and sharing your perspectives with us. And Jay, thank you for having me on again. And we look forward to seeing you in two weeks.