 and welcome to the program agriculture on the move I am Philip Sidney your host before I delve into the program just want to thank the many persons the many the persons involved as far as the CMOS peers are concerned on Sunday to thank you for participating in this process and also the general public and coming yes thank you very very much and we're looking forward to another world food the next year where we will be featuring something down the road as far as our food and nutrition security is concerned we are here again Junekui all everybody's looking forward for that activity it's one of the biggest activities in St. Lucia and people are looking forward to consume exotics exotics from the land from the from wildlife and also looking at fish marine species those that you should not consume at the time because maybe it is not in season and etc so today with me are two gentlemen who are well poised to discuss that issue with me is mr. Thomas Nelson who is the deputy chief fisheries officer and also mr. Parisians who is the acting assistant chief forest officer in the municipal agriculture fisheries food security and rural development gentlemen welcome to the program thank you very much thank you for having us yeah well I know I'm I'm getting all worked up and my salad eating already just you know envisaging the dishes that are going to be there I know pious we people are looking forward for the money cool one day Agouti and stuff like this but before we get into this give us a little background into what has forestry done over the years looking at those species out there okay so let me start by saying that the forestry department really uses the what we refer to as the Saint Lucia Wildlife Protection Act to govern how we we use our wildlife resource in Saint Lucia now and we also have the the forest act as well that deals more with you know the the forest ecosystem and so on but in the wildlife protection act really is the one that we will touch more on as it relates to the the the use of our wildlife resource in Saint Lucia first question is how did the wildlife act come about what was the origin in fact what brought on the wildlife well the act was more or less established in 1980 we had a revision in 2001 but before this you know we we gain independence in 1979 that's when we get our independence 79 and the act came in 1980 before this but of course we were you know it was you know we were on the British British world you know we were a colony and so on and our laws I think we had the the the wild birds ordinance and some other you know laws that were there during the colonial times that law it wasn't quite quite stringent it was quite open and it gave persons liberty to go into you know wildlife habitats and to more or less hunt and take in an indiscriminatory manner wildlife and as a result we had the backlash where we had a number of species different species that were really really targeted and the numbers began dwindling and I will mention one and you'll be surprised the Saint Lucia parrot is one such species back in the day before the act was more or less enacted persons were actually hunting the Saint Lucia parrot and many other birds you would not have seen birds like the Ramier you know out in the open like this you'd have had to go right into the depth of the forest interior to find a ramier because you know there was active exploitation hunting of these species so as a result of this you know this heavy exploitation they saw you know those who had gone before us they saw it was prudent now to establish the Wildlife Protection Act which came just after independence in 1980 and so today we have this act and it has three schedules you know you have fully protected wildlife and then you have partially protected and you have unprotected however the majority of our species are reptiles birds mammals they fall under the the fully protected species and let me just say quickly that they establish what you refer to as a moratorium so we have more or less like a temporary hold a freeze or more or less a ban on hunting right now okay so that is where we are until we amend that act or we make some revisions this is where we are today Saint Lucia hunting more or less is is is pretty much banned so we will clarify this because I know farmers out there have a problem with wild pigs so when you say hunting is banned are you saying that they should not go out and hunt wild pigs yes so now talking about the feral pig is is is is a special one because the the feral pig more or less does not appear on the wildlife it is not in there so basically okay persons are allowed to hunt the feral pig in particular now the kosher man basically is not any specific species is not any special species it's more as the same domesticated pig that we had but those pigs you know they were left in fact they went into the wild they straight into the wild and they stood there they have established a population that we refer to as a feral pig now when we consider revision of the of the of the act we would have to define feral pig so then we have to make the distinction between feral pig and the domesticated so the feral pig in itself you don't there's no need for a permit to get a feral pig what you need is a permit to enter the forest the forest reserve or the wildlife reserve so if you want to go and hunt feral pig you have to first of all seek permission from the forestry department you have to get your permit to enter the forest not to get the species okay however all the others like the manikou and the aguti the manikou and the aguti are listed as fully protected wildlife and persons are not allowed to hunt them at live manikou manikou and aguti they both protected but but then we actually see them on menus well it is not permissible based on our laws it should not be there it should all right okay so let's go to the fishers i'm sure there's a there's a fishes act right yes right yeah thank you give us give us a little background yeah thanks for the opportunity and certainly the fisheries act of 1984 and the fisheries regulations of 1994 10 years afterwards makes provisions or gives the department of fisheries the mandate or set the guidelines to establish conservation measures for the for the for the use and management of fisheries and fisheries related resources and we when we talk about fisheries resources in the context of juniquial i'm sure many persons would know some of these would include things like shadow the white sea egg where we would have an open and closed season depending on the status of the population things like lobster we have the famous turtles which the season is open now so some of these conservation measures as i said include open and closed seasons it would also include size limits so therefore you may be able to or you may be allowed to take some of the animals within a particular size range etc there are also areas in the ocean referred to as marine reserves where you are not allowed to take marine species from those areas because these areas would be closed and set up specifically to to to protect nesting or nursery nursery habitats for marine species so it is really the fisheries act that sets those boundaries for management and conservation of fisheries and fisheries related resources so it is a very timely discussion because we all know that during juniquial many persons as you mentioned earlier exotic and really wild species are considered or you know are put on the menu and this is where people really develop you know the the the taste and the nak want to try high price to it exactly high price as well so you know i mean as the discussion goes certainly we can talk a little bit more about what's you know on and off in terms of the various species okay as you want on and off okay uh juniquial is here what is in season and what's out in right so it's at this point in time the lobster season is open it opened from the second of august this year and until it goes until the last day of february 2023 so therefore persons can harvest persons can utilize um lobsters so the season or the period is is open however there are some other measures that have to be taken into consideration so if a lobster is on the size meaning that it is smaller than a particular size which is 9.5 centimeters in terms of the size of the head of the length of the head um it should not be taken if the lobster is molten meaning that it is changed in shell this is the time where it is very vulnerable it is very slow you can easily catch it this is the time where it's at its peak in terms of growing they should not be removed or they should not be caught if a lobster is carrying eggs it means that it is really in its productive state or reproductive state they should not be caught or removed and persons should not be in possession of them persons should also not spare lobsters or hook lobsters because we do have some licensed spare fishers and they are not to spare lobsters because supposing you spare an undersized lobster it means that there is not an opportunity to put it back in the ocean alive or you spare a lobster that's carrying eggs so the primary way to catch lobsters is really using the fish pots or the nests right some persons also would catch them in nets at least if it is undersized if it is carrying eggs or if it is molten there is an opportunity to put it back in the ocean so that it can continue its reproductive life okay the other species that is open in terms of the season is sea turtles and in fact I've been noticing some persons have been enjoying the opportunity to to to have turtles on the on the menu but again there are some restrictions there is a size limit and we also encourage persons in fact one of the conditions as part of the sea turtle fishery is that they should not be slaughtered or dealt with in the open or in public in the open area the leatherback is not right the leatherback there are some restrictions in terms of the species the leatherback is not to be taken so it is only the hawksbill and the green turtle that is being taken what's the reason for the leatherback right because in fact you will not catch you if you the method of catching the turtle is in the net if a leatherback gets caught in the net most likely you will not you will not be getting that net anyway but generally because of the critical level in terms of threat of the leatherback it is off the the the catching list at this point in time yes the other species is the crayfish very famous crayfish in the wild we do have a moratorium on the capture of crayfish and one of the main reasons for that and many persons would have known that persons use various types of noxious substances of poison in the rivers to poison the rivers and that can have very negative effect on aqua life on aqua life on the rivers on all other species within the within the river basin but also have a significant impact on our own life because sometimes some of these persons use um we decide yes and very deadly forms of poison and therefore we encourage persons to purchase um shrimp or crayfish for want of a better term from the aqua culture farmers right because you really do not know how some of these persons would have acquired the crayfish in the wild in terms of the um cx or shadow the population of shadow is very low at this point in time and therefore we have not allowed or the population does not allow for an open period at this time so therefore the season for shadow is closed um and not only in St Lucia but similarly in Barbados just recently I got a report from our fishes colleagues in Barbados that they did some surveys and this year will not have an open season in Barbados either because sometimes you have a kind of a cyclical um kind of a pick and trough in terms of population um growth or population size or issues affecting the population and this year is one of the years where you have basically a dip in the population of the white cx okay so at this point yes we'll take a break you're watching agriculture on the move stay tuned we'll be back very soon the ministry of agriculture yeah fisheries food security and rural development is facing heavy they've got a tv there before he's the one sitting it protects against main diseases like blackboard and witches broom and pests like rodent it secures the appropriate enabling environment to advance the sector to learn more about the coco sector enhancement project place contact project coordinator at 459-7003 those in the wild in the forest um as I remember some years ago um there was a program where they wanted to domesticate the aguti just in in millet right uh the idea was they wanted to have uh from from an economic standpoint to have uh that community to have a wildlife night or or or what do you call um uh wild meat night okay um I don't think that went through I don't think the aguti would like to be domesticated tell us about that yeah so uh in a nutshell the project more or less failed for a few reasons but the principal reason the main reason why this project did not really get off the ground is because we have not quite understood the um husbandry practices in fact the husbandry requirements for the aguti in fact we have not learned how to um domesticate the aguti more or less so um I think at the time they were using a module that came from Trinidad but um even the the the housing facility that was prepared for the aguti based on the one that is currently in millet was insufficient because it was organized more or less like a pig pen and the aguti in itself you know its requirement it needs you know a bit of earth um it needs you know some hollow logs and stuff like that so we are yet to understand the ecological requirements for that species and also the the husbandry practices that we need to employ in order to um read them in captivity we refer to it as aguti rungen uh so the aim really was to remove the the the focus from um the hunting in the wild and having a program where we could you know farm or rare the aguti in captivity so that um you know we could sustain that um need of you know rural livelihoods and and so on because believe it or not um there are livelihood options or there are livelihood benefits to begin from the sustainable use of these animals and let me say quickly that um forestry is now you know looking into the future and as I've stated the wildlife act was established in 1980 and but of course we have this more or less moratorium on hunting so in order for persons to um you know use these species they would need a the authority of a license of valid license or permit that is more or less prescribed by the forestry department through the minister and so we are looking into the future we are currently at a juncture at a point where we are undergoing in fact we are just starting legislative review legislative review so we are going to review we are reviewing the wildlife act and we are also going to review the forest um the forest act more or less the forest solenoid water protection act we are reviewing this and in our review we will consider the idea of certain species allowing certain species to be used continually and the manikou will be one of these species as well as the aguti moving forward so so okay moving into the junect we all all right what are you all policing those areas around the island that are involved in juniquial to find out whether you know the manikou and the iguana and you know are you all doing what what is there something are you all monitoring that okay first of all we we would like to take the opportunity here and we we send out a press release on the subject matter um a few days ago we first of all would like to inform the public before juniquial and many persons do in fact many persons are aware that these species the manikou the aguti the iguana all of these species are protected wildlife and they are not allowed for hunting right now um so the question which you ask basically moving forward into the um the the the creole day um we at this point we are unable to facilitate a request because the law doesn't permit us to do so we are not allowed to give or issue permits to anybody to to to have manikou on the menu or to have aguti on the menu moving forward we can look into it when we have done a few background things for example we have done the legislative review we have done you know the um the population surveys we have done the the groundwork that will help us um take certain decisions okay if i may add to this um actually the department of fisheries i remember over the years have actually been making the rounds um you know to check the booths um during juniquial um as payas indicated what we would like to do first is to urge the general public what we also did is that we have sent out a press release similar to forestry but we have also written to the uh fork research center oh yes um so that um right you know we they would inform the committee committees and the vendors etc because if you don't have the thing for sale then of course you know they would not be um consume at that point so instead of you know so we are really taking a proactive approach right right right we do not necessarily want to be sanctioning or using the big stick um for want of a better term um on the day of juniquial of course that could cause severe distress etc you know two vendors so it is a matter of you know right embarrassment as well so it's a matter of you know persons becoming aware and as i said we have written to the fork research center so that they could inform the vendors and the persons participating um in the two main communities but others around the that's a very important point yes you know targeting uh the committees the organizers yes because they would be the one to filter the information to their community personnel to ensure that you know swizzle or cashews whatever they have in this year would not be featuring these but do you see we have a number of satellite different little persons in the different because when it when it comes to juniquial juniquial is is now an island right yes exactly although we have um you know major areas but the whole island so you know you would find persons um having the the the wild mitra in different little pockets what i i i was quite disappointed last year when i saw um persons having iguana on the menu now i want to talk to that it is definitely an offense and forestry will take is very seriously persons who are targeting this and usha iguana to put on a menu for creole day this is not permitted at all because the senosa iguana population is under a lot of stress right now and the threat level for the iguana is high right the senosa iguana is only restricted to the northeast coast of senosa so you're talking about you know from fonder going up to babu no silence on the northeast coast and that iguana has so much pressure on its population from invasive species habitat loss and a whole bunch of persecution by humans and so on also we have the threat of the other iguana we have a green iguana in the souffle area okay and that iguana is spreading now we have a dilemma there because persons might be saying okay well if you'll have a situation if we if you have an invasive green iguana all right that is affecting our endemic then we should be hunting yes but we we we have to do the legislative review first because in the wildlife apps iguana is just referred to it's just it doesn't specify our endemic iguana not as it doesn't distinguish between the two it is still referred to as iguana iguana right so we have to make this distinction so our iguana has been regarded as a as a subspecies so it's it's it's regarded as san dalo say it's our it's a subspecies to the one that we have there so this one would be regarded as iguana iguana the green invasive iguana and the other one so we can now make this distinction scientifically and we could add this to our act and then we could say okay fine you could perhaps look at the possibility but there's also the threat once persons develop a taste for iguana they may not even distinguish between whether it is endemic or local and the invasive yes so we have this dilemma so it's it's it's a whole it's a whole point of awareness and education we need that a lot a lot of awareness a lot of education so that person to be better guided the sea eggs yes it's not in no so we don't have an open season this year um or at least fortune when when last you all had uh we had one a few years ago yeah remember that because again i said there are many things impacting the sea egg maybe about two three years ago um we had an open season right one of the things that i would like to see Sydney is that the the juniquial period you know for the for the festivities we certainly would like persons to enjoy themselves it is one day and the forestry and fisheries department what we are doing in terms of the conservation and some of the conservation measures that have been put in place is not only for that one day but also for the future because the sustainability of the resource we want to ensure that at some point down the road we will continue to have these resources not only for us but also for our children i mean this is this is a very important point um for persons to recognize as you come to and to close the program um any vital points that you would like to bring for um okay so as i've said persons would be um a bit um disappointed but you know they they they will not be able to eat the manikou or the the aguti as they please however we are guided by the the the the law of the land this is what we use as as as our instrument to manage the um the species however i can i i can inform the public that moving forward forestry will be as i've said doing our review of our art and there are certain species that perhaps would be um used sustainably and the manikou and the aguti would be suspicious but the iguana would definitely remain fully protected even the tertiary will remain fully protected we would not want persons to develop appetite for iguana for tertiary and these other things but definitely we could develop livelihood options livelihood opportunities with these manikou and the aguti definitely because the aguti creates an issue for farmers in areas that are just in the forest in a while and also the manikou we see the manikou is plentiful and it also you know is a is an issue right now you know it destroys reptiles birds and so on it's anything it's an omnivore so we will definitely we see the merit in you know establishing more or less a sustainable livelihood opportunity from these have a minute yes certainly as i said earlier we would ask persons to enjoy themselves have fun enjoy the festivities but certainly be mindful of the regulations and the laws governing the fisheries um and fisheries related resources gentlemen how to thank you for being here yes and i hope you'll you'll even if even if you you all want to eat those species you cannot eat them yes and i'm i'm happy that you all came to educate the public in that regard we have been watching our culture on the move of course fishes on the move too uh we want you to enjoy your juniquial but be mindful of the species that you cannot consume so please adhere to those rules or else you will be fine remember our culture is our business and eat fresh it's in russia's best i'm philip sidney saying goodbye and god bless yes gentlemen i think talking about fines we should have to spoken about well you know that yes listen to me you know when somebody watch that program yeah i can help him say and leave the outside but you see that's what i'm saying if we're done yeah we're done honestly gentlemen you see me as a wire professor as a contact analyst